Just back ..

to the settee after turning the IPTV off...

Lucky goal for us

Men v Boys in reality

2-1 flattered us as could have been many many more

We looked pedestrian, wide open down our right side, no pace anywhere to match theirs and we were picked apart so easily.

Both goals from a wide man stripping our full back and the striker ghosting in on the blind side at the far post.  

Gulf in physicality and pace was huge but our inability to pass the ball or control the ball didnt help.

Woolford, Why?  Hessenthaler was so positive early season but now he fails to pick forward passes and gets bullied. Cook works hard but has no guile or pace to turn defenders. Vernam and Embleton to start next league match..

What Moosey said .

Once again we fall to an 80+ winner, if Jolley has a plan I can’t see it. We had a settled side and did well a couple of lads have bad games and he makes wholesale changes.

As Moosey said it was men versus boys, things will need to get better quickly.

At least nobody will be able to put the blame for this defeat on Hooper

Quoted from moosey_club

to the settee after turning the IPTV off...

Lucky goal for us

Men v Boys in reality

2-1 flattered us as could have been many many more

We looked pedestrian, wide open down our right side, no pace anywhere to match theirs and we were picked apart so easily.

Both goals from a wide man stripping our full back and the striker ghosting in on the blind side at the far post.  

Gulf in physicality and pace was huge but our inability to pass the ball or control the ball didnt help.

Agree with that. The management can't hide from that, surely? If you understand the game and have viewed it from the bench you will be attempting a delusion if you don't face up to those glaring facts. I know he'll want to be positive in the post match interview but FFS we aren't stupid. Weakness and low quality stares us in the face, game after game.

Quoted from FishOutOfWater

At least nobody will be able to put the blame for this defeat on Hooper

Maybe so but is he worth what we are paying him, I doubt it on his goal tally so far.

Quoted from Marinerz93

Maybe so but is he worth what we are paying him, I doubt it on his goal tally so far.

Without knowing what he’s being paid it’s impossible to say whether he’s worth his salary

He might well be getting money for old rope but you could easily level that at most of his teammates

When it comes to goals scored nobody comes to mind as being worth what they are being paid. At least we are saving on paying out on goal bonuses 😉

A decent right back playing at left back

A slow centre half that drops off all of the time and lets forwards take all the time they want to lay the ball off and sets a deep defensive line but redeems himself by making last ditch blocks and eyecatching headers

A right back that's clumsy and left to defend on his own

A right mid that leaves his right back exposed all game and provides very little else when in possession

A left mid who has a lovely touch and can pick a pass but can't run quickly enough to play professional football and leaves his full back exposed

A forward who really isn't a forward and didn't get too many games at his previous club because he wasn't good enough

A half decent forward who is left to battle on his own with three centre halves who didn't drop off him and give him time to take a touch

Play two centre mids against a midfield three of a team near the play offs and leave them outnumbered

Half the team were trying to play a high press while our defensive line dropped off twenty yards

The whole team is devoid of any confidence and belief, the way we constantly give the ball away is embarrassing

To a man, every player shitts themself within twenty yards of the opposition goal

The manager says we're going to play a high press, high tempo style of football but regularly picks half a team of players that are too slow for professional football

It's a bloody mess. Mansfield, yes Mansfield looked two leagues better than us tonight. Sadly starting to feel Jolley is out of his depth. He signed the players, he picks the team and the tactics, but of course John will say "How can we compete wiith the likes of Mansfield?" FFS

Our club cannot and must not go on like this, it just can't..

Quoted from Bigdog

A decent right back playing at left back

A slow centre half that drops off all of the time and lets forwards take all the time they want to lay the ball off and sets a deep defensive line but redeems himself by making last ditch blocks and eyecatching headers

A right back that's clumsy and left to defend on his own

A right mid that leaves his right back exposed all game and provides very little else when in possession

A left mid who has a lovely touch and can pick a pass but can't run quickly enough to play professional football and leaves his full back exposed

A forward who really isn't a forward and didn't get too many games at his previous club because he wasn't good enough

A half decent forward who is left to battle on his own with three centre halves who didn't drop off him and give him time to take a touch

Play two centre mids against a midfield three of a team near the play offs and leave them outnumbered

Half the team were trying to play a high press while our defensive line dropped off twenty yards

The whole team is devoid of any confidence and belief, the way we constantly give the ball away is embarrassing

To a man, every player shitts themself within twenty yards of the opposition goal

The manager says we're going to play a high press, high tempo style of football but regularly picks half a team of players that are too slow for professional football

It's a bloody mess. Mansfield, yes Mansfield looked two leagues better than us tonight. Sadly starting to feel Jolley is out of his depth. He signed the players, he picks the team and the tactics, but of course John will say "How can we compete wiith the likes of Mansfield?" FFS

Our club cannot and must not go on like this, it just can't..

This

Why can't our players the wrong side of 30 put in dominating performances like Mansfields 37 year old Bishop, he ran the midfield today, instead of watching the game go by like most weeks.

Too many ineffective players in the eleven tonight.

I fear we actually have too many ineffective players in the squad. Not bad players. Some players are tidy enough on the ball and have decent enough technique. But these players are still ineffective in competitive football matches and don't offer enough out of possession either.

This contributes to our real problem at the minute, which is the balance between setting an expansive shape in possession, and being tight and compact out of possession. To ensure we don't get overrun and cut through repeatedly, we almost have to go Hurst-like and "keep us shape", not too many risks and not too many bodies forward. But this leaves us woefully short of being able to have an impact at the other end of the pitch - and to attack more effectively and hopefully score more goals, we'd need to open up when we have the ball and have support for the attackers.

Shutting up shop worked for the run of 4 games when we kept clean sheets and managed to take enough chances to win 3 games. But since then we haven't kept clean sheets and the balance of the team isn't set up to go and score multiple goals.

I'm not saying that's necessarily the wrong approach. If we did open up and get bodies forward, get real width both ways and stretch the opposition, we'd be wide open and we don't have players that are athletic enough to recover into organised defensive shape quickly enough in these moments of transition when we lose the ball.

Only watched the 2nd half tonight. But Liam Hearn (himself a budding Coach) called their winner before Mansfield even got the ball off us. We had a throw-in quite a way into Mansfield's half and before we took it, Liam said if we lose the ball we could be in trouble as we'd left 3v3 at the back. We even gave ourselves a chance to recover back when we briefly won the ball back after losing it, but then lost it again for them to break forward quickly. That extra couple of seconds made no difference and they were away against a still disorganised and unbalanced defensive set-up.

I think we had 4 or 5 players in the starting eleven tonight who you could label ineffective. All decent enough technically and some contributed to some tidy bits of possession that we had in the middle third of the pitch. But that's in area's we'll never hurt teams and we didn't have any idea how to progress possession into the final third tonight to get anywhere near a chance at goal. These players would look decent in training with technical drills and possession games against our generally not-very-athletic squad, but in a full-pace game against really mobile players, they will struggle and in areas where they're put under pressure, sometimes crumble.

I don't know what the answer is yet. Finding a system to allow us to get our more effective players on the pitch together would be priority as I don't think we've found that yet. Partially because we've had players injured and unavailable so much maybe.

Managers with a budget like ours will be dont really build the perfect squad in one transfer window though, so I think it'd be wrong to hammer MJ too much over recruitment. Literally every manager there's ever been, signs some shockers and a 50% success rate is maybe par. Hopefully he can find the right balance and system to get enough results to be able to be afforded the next few transfer windows to progress and refine his squad.

Convincing post as usual Tommy.

Late to bed and up early with the kids but always enjoy an away match despite the result.

I said to myself yesterday that a point would’ve been a good result the way we’re playing of late and how Mansfield are.

I just feel the pain of things aren’t happening for us. We play some good football and so we should but compared to the Conference days it’s much better.

I was particularly paying special attention to MJ last night and he seems mega frustrated with certain aspects of play.

Not sure what the answer is guys and I fear MJ doesn’t either with the players he’s got 😟

Good support from the faithful and a big shout out to Macca, he totally kept us in it and the shoreline down.

Maybe a good old January shake up is all that I’m holding onto.

Quoted from H19P1

Late to bed and up early with the kids but always enjoy an away match despite the result.

I said to myself yesterday that a point would’ve been a good result the way we’re playing of late and how Mansfield are.

I just feel the pain of things aren’t happening for us. We play some good football and so we should but compared to the Conference days it’s much better.

I was particularly paying special attention to MJ last night and he seems mega frustrated with certain aspects of play.

Not sure what the answer is guys and I fear MJ doesn’t either with the players he’s got 😟

Good support from the faithful and a big shout out to Macca, he totally kept us in it and the shoreline down.

Maybe a good old January shake up is all that I’m holding onto.

Good old Shoreline - always need a mention now & again

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Good old Shoreline - always need a mention now & again

I’m just tired fella 💤😂

Mansfield were the best side I have seen in League 2 this season. Not sure how it came across on Ifollow but the way they created space down the flanks was impressive. I have been banging on about movement, and our lack of it, and Mansfield have it in bucket loads. Clearly well drilled but had physical strength over and above our level.

Macca outstanding, centre backs did ok, Hess played deeper than previously and contributed. Cook looked like someone who hadn’t played for weeks, poor touch and decision makings.

Unlike some I am not too downhearted about last night but 3 away defeats on he bounce isn’t great to say the least. Crawley at home is a vital game- we need to win, simple as that.

Good following considering we could have stayed at home and watched on ifollow

Thank god for Macca, if we had stolen a point, we'd have to let him take it home and stick it on his mantelpiece.

After an evenish first half, Mansfield played with a tempo, physicality and confidence in the second that we didn't get near.  The changes left the team very static in possession - we missed Embleton and Vernam showing for passes. Hess looked rusty, Pringle was a disappointment to me and was one of a number of players that, probably through low confidence, didn't seem to want the ball.  RHJ was on a hiding to nothing and constantly isolated by Woolford inability to track back quickly and Famawo staying too central.

Vernam on for Cook at 1-1 was bold, but by then taking a point was looking like the best result we could get and I was hoping for Clifton or Welsh to offer more defensive cover. If Charles had scored the winner, we'd be hailing a tactical masterstroke but it wasn't the percentage, Hurstian move at that moment against a better team.

Overall they were better - stronger, quicker and generally looking like a team assembled to a better budget.

First of all, the difference between the two sides last night was Tyler Walker.  A guy who probably shouldn't be playing at this level.  Fine margins and all that I know...

Lack of balance was the key for me last night.  When we kept the ball on the deck we looked very comfortable and I thought for a period in the second half looked absolutely head and shoulders above Mansfield...until we got near their goal and then we didn't know what to do with it.

Hall-Johnson may well turn out to be a very good right-back and he definitely offers something going forward.  But defensively he's far too naive to be the week-in-week-out first choice down that side.  Teams are targetting him because he's there to be got at.  On the other side Hendrie looks like a guy who's playing on his wrong side.  He can get away with against lesser sides but as soon as he comes up against a half decent winger who's capable of going inside and outside, he's done for.  

In front of them it was Woolford and Pringle, switching every five minutes.  Be it them or Embleton and Hooper, there's no real protection.  Woolford just seems to float five yards away from where he needs to be and Pringle looks like he knows what he should be doing but doesn't have the legs/confidence to do it.  If you play without width you become very narrow and further expose your fullbacks.  

Our whole midfield is built around guys who are workers.  Pure grafters who will get up and down the pitch, or in our case go from wing to wing and get stuck in.  There's no creativity at all.  

Up top it doesn't matter who we play, none of them can make the ball stick.  They all want and need someone to play off and/or play them in.  Persisting with Thomas, as we did with Cook earlier in the season, as a target man is bonkers.  He hasn't got the technical or physical attributes for it.  The ball goes up to him, or near him, then comes straight back.  We might as well just punt the ball out for a throw-in in their half and be done with it.

We can't do anything until January so it's a case of making best of what we've got.   In my personal opinion we've got two guys in the squad who are capable of making something happen, that's Vernam and Embleton.  It's essential we have those both on the pitch.  We don't have the players to even try playing a 4-4-2 (or variation of) so why bother?  Get the two creative guys behind a striker, probably Thomas, but with the emphasis of playing him in and playing around him, not using him as a target man.  Pack the midfield with energy to cover the lack of width and protect the full-backs.    It won't win titles and it won't be successful every week, but I honestly think it's all we've got.

I completely agree with Tommy about ineffectual players.  Our squad is riddled with them.  It's easy to blame Fenty for a poor budget but Jolley has spent that budget on a relatively large squad that has very little variation in it.  Perhaps less bodies with more quality would have been a better approach, especially when you consider how many bodies we've got that are offering nothing at present.

For me, the biggest surprise this season is that the signings Jolley made during the summer don't really match the high-tempo and energetic pressing game he mentioned that he wanted to play.

How much of this was due to an inability to find the right players in the summer, I'm not sure, but with the best will in the world, you're not going to get a high-tempo performance when you don't have any real pace in the squad and the Collins, Welsh, Woolford axis certainly isn't going to help in this regard. We're very lightweight as well, especially in attacking positions.

Much as with Slade last season, he didn't sign the players to fit into the shape he wanted to play. We were going to be set up to play with wing-backs, but then didn't actually have any wing-backs come the first games of the season! Since then, we've generally gone to a back four with an ever-changing line up (often because of injury, of course) and we don't seem to have the midfielders to remain competitive with the better teams (even when playing 3 in the middle) and have almost no wide players on the books.

Individually, I agree that many of the players are OK, but they just aren't apparently capable of doing enough as a group.

Big disappointment for me has been Hessenthaler who, after a bright start, has dropped right away. Truth be told, I wonder if he's struggling with home sickness? He's spent his whole life in the south east and moving to an unfamiliar part of the country, several hours away from family and friends must be difficult for a relatively young lad.

Mansfield looked like the team MJ says he is trying to build. High effective pressing (made us look very sloppy in possession), good shape, good movement, energetic, athletic.
Tbh if we’d had Saturday’s ref (or Macca wasn’t at his absolute best) we’d have lost by 3 or 4.
I wonder if we missed Clifton defensively, and agree that Woolford’s lack of pace exposed RJH contributing to him to have a shocker.
As Cloudy said, Mansfield on the night were maybe the best opposition we’ve faced to date but as that guy on D3D4 said in his report they’re at the other end of a re-build.
We need to keep perspective, keep our nerve, recognise the progress we’re making (albeit not as quick as I had certainly hoped for), support MJ and do our bit in staying behind the team.

Quoted from Tommy

Only watched the 2nd half tonight. But Liam Hearn (himself a budding Coach) called their winner before Mansfield even got the ball off us. We had a throw-in quite a way into Mansfield's half and before we took it, Liam said if we lose the ball we could be in trouble as we'd left 3v3 at the back. We even gave ourselves a chance to recover back when we briefly won the ball back after losing it, but then lost it again for them to break forward quickly. That extra couple of seconds made no difference and they were away against a still disorganised and unbalanced defensive set-up.

I noticed this on the radio. Hearn was constantly saying we had players too far forward, not tracking back, and leaving us exposed. Think he was being diplomatic, but seemed to know exactly what our problem was, and it's not just not scoring goals.

If we had Lionel Messie tonight he would not have scores as we have no one in the team capable of passing the ball to him in the last third!

Quoted from diehardmariner

First of all, the difference between the two sides last night was Tyler Walker.  A guy who probably shouldn't be playing at this level.  Fine margins and all that I know...

Lack of balance was the key for me last night.  When we kept the ball on the deck we looked very comfortable and I thought for a period in the second half looked absolutely head and shoulders above Mansfield...until we got near their goal and then we didn't know what to do with it.

Hall-Johnson may well turn out to be a very good right-back and he definitely offers something going forward.  But defensively he's far too naive to be the week-in-week-out first choice down that side.  Teams are targetting him because he's there to be got at.  On the other side Hendrie looks like a guy who's playing on his wrong side.  He can get away with against lesser sides but as soon as he comes up against a half decent winger who's capable of going inside and outside, he's done for.  

In front of them it was Woolford and Pringle, switching every five minutes.  Be it them or Embleton and Hooper, there's no real protection.  Woolford just seems to float five yards away from where he needs to be and Pringle looks like he knows what he should be doing but doesn't have the legs/confidence to do it.  If you play without width you become very narrow and further expose your fullbacks.  

Our whole midfield is built around guys who are workers.  Pure grafters who will get up and down the pitch, or in our case go from wing to wing and get stuck in.  There's no creativity at all.  

Up top it doesn't matter who we play, none of them can make the ball stick.  They all want and need someone to play off and/or play them in.  Persisting with Thomas, as we did with Cook earlier in the season, as a target man is bonkers.  He hasn't got the technical or physical attributes for it.  The ball goes up to him, or near him, then comes straight back.  We might as well just punt the ball out for a throw-in in their half and be done with it.

We can't do anything until January so it's a case of making best of what we've got.   In my personal opinion we've got two guys in the squad who are capable of making something happen, that's Vernam and Embleton.  It's essential we have those both on the pitch.  We don't have the players to even try playing a 4-4-2 (or variation of) so why bother?  Get the two creative guys behind a striker, probably Thomas, but with the emphasis of playing him in and playing around him, not using him as a target man.  Pack the midfield with energy to cover the lack of width and protect the full-backs.    It won't win titles and it won't be successful every week, but I honestly think it's all we've got.

I completely agree with Tommy about ineffectual players.  Our squad is riddled with them.  It's easy to blame Fenty for a poor budget but Jolley has spent that budget on a relatively large squad that has very little variation in it.  Perhaps less bodies with more quality would have been a better approach, especially when you consider how many bodies we've got that are offering nothing at present.

Excellent post. I don’t like to criticise individual players, but did Hall-Johnson ever prevent his opponent getting in the cross last night? When he did get the ball he simply hoofed it down the line with no apparent effect. A shame really considering that a very experienced professional acquaintance of mine who made a rare visit to BP for the Notts Co game last season felt that he was far and away our best player and the key man in our setup.

Quoted from diehardmariner

Hall-Johnson may well turn out to be a very good right-back and he definitely offers something going forward.  But defensively he's far too naive to be the week-in-week-out first choice down that side.  Teams are targetting him because he's there to be got at.  On the other side Hendrie looks like a guy who's playing on his wrong side.  He can get away with against lesser sides but as soon as he comes up against a half decent winger who's capable of going inside and outside, he's done for.  

Agree with this. I don't think RHJ is a bad player, and he's alright with the ball in general (lacks options a lot of the time). But he's struggling at the minute and isn't defending in 1v1's very well. If he's against a quick winger who wants to run him, then he's in trouble in this current spell, particularly without much support around him.

Compare that to the other end of the pitch where our wingers can't outrun anyone, making it easier for the full back to read what they'll do, and keep them in front of them. That's alright if we have that on one side, preferably with an overlapping full-back but I think you need to have someone more direct on one side. Pringle and Woolford, whilst both tidy enough (and Pringle may well turn out to be very good, it's still early), but their full-back's last night would've been delighted to see them line up against them.

Quoted from diehardmariner

We can't do anything until January so it's a case of making best of what we've got.   In my personal opinion we've got two guys in the squad who are capable of making something happen, that's Vernam and Embleton.  It's essential we have those both on the pitch.  We don't have the players to even try playing a 4-4-2 (or variation of) so why bother?  Get the two creative guys behind a striker, probably Thomas, but with the emphasis of playing him in and playing around him, not using him as a target man.  Pack the midfield with energy to cover the lack of width and protect the full-backs.    It won't win titles and it won't be successful every week, but I honestly think it's all we've got.

Most definitely agree. Both may have lacked a final finish several times this season, but without them we lack invention of how to break into the final third with the ball and create anything like a chance at goal.

Quoted from bedders78

Vernam on for Cook at 1-1 was bold, but by then taking a point was looking like the best result we could get and I was hoping for Clifton or Welsh to offer more defensive cover. If Charles had scored the winner, we'd be hailing a tactical masterstroke but it wasn't the percentage, Hurstian move at that moment against a better team.

I'm not saying you're wrong at all, but had he brought Cook (striker) off for Welsh or Clifton (midfielder) and we still lost the game, he'd have been hammered for being negative and inviting pressure. Almost a Hurst-Parslow move.

Hindsight and fine margins are a wonderful thing.

The substitution I was hoping for last night with 10 minutes to go (before they scored their 2nd), was Akheem Rose on for Thomas. We weren't making the ball stick or able to compete in the air whenever it went up anyway, so Rose's inexperience in that aspect wouldn't have made a difference, but he'd have offered a new and different threat for us to get out and get up the pitch. I know he came on after their goal, but by then Mansfield didn't need to push up the pitch and the space wasn't there that they were perhaps leaving while they pushed for a winner.

The amount of times we had a chance to play it out wide to a player in a good position I lost count of. Instead, we persisted in trying to play it through the middle and it ended up being snapped up by a defender on just about every occasion. Why can we not give it and go out wide and charge in to the box to try and get on the end of a cross is beyond me. Mansfield did this numerous times (particularly down our right) to us and we paid the penalty for it

Quoted from Dan

I noticed this on the radio. Hearn was constantly saying we had players too far forward, not tracking back, and leaving us exposed. Think he was being diplomatic, but seemed to know exactly what our problem was, and it's not just not scoring goals.

I personally don't think the players lack effort, or that they don't try getting back. It's just they're not athletic enough to cover lots of ground quickly.

Incidentally, this reminds me of the clip of Leeds players showing unreal desire through their team to get back and defend at the weekend. Have a look at this for anyone who hasn't seen it. Bielsa influence at Leeds is intensity off the ball as well as bravery and quality on it:

https://twitter.com/SoccerAM/status/1059842847367524352

Quoted from Tommy

I personally don't think the players lack effort, or that they don't try getting back. It's just they're not athletic enough to cover lots of ground quickly.

Incidentally, this reminds me of the clip of Leeds players showing unreal desire through their team to get back and defend at the weekend. Have a look at this for anyone who hasn't seen it. Bielsa influence at Leeds is intensity off the ball as well as bravery and quality on it:

https://twitter.com/SoccerAM/status/1059842847367524352

Funnily enough Tommy that Leeds "pack" sprang to mind when I saw the line " players too far forward, not tracking back, and leaving us exposed    " - as you say, ours are not athletic enough to cover lots of ground quickly

What Leeds did was really impressive... it was a collective desire to not allow anyone through whereas at times we're like dominoes, knock one over and then the next and then the next

Imho, if we don't compete on athleticism then it doesn't matter what skills our players have... they won't win many games without the mindset of thinking they're going to snuff out the opposition at all costs

Quoted from carrot top

The amount of times we had a chance to play it out wide to a player in a good position I lost count of. Instead, we persisted in trying to play it through the middle and it ended up being snapped up by a defender on just about every occasion. Why can we not give it and go out wide and charge in to the box to try and get on the end of a cross is beyond me. Mansfield did this numerous times (particularly down our right) to us and we paid the penalty for it

I think we would all like to see it, I definitely would, but the problems are:

1) We have no natural wingers occupying those wide areas.  The players who we're playing out wide lack pace so as long as the opposing full-backs close them down to prevent an early cross, they're not going to get into any space to put a delivery in.
2) We're a relatively small side.   Centre-backs aside the only outfield player we have very little height in the team, the squad even. Even if we do get a decent delivery in the box, we've very little chance of getting on the end of it.  

First of all I applaud all those who went last night.

Secondly I am as disappointed as anybody at how poorly we are doing, but the fact is and I know it was mainly down to Macca, but the score was better than about 80% as a guess predicted.

Ah, a crumb of comfort. I'm encouraged.

Most people thought we would be tw@tted by Mansfield, the Barcelona of L2, but our keeper had a blinder and we lost anyway, but not by a cricket score.

UTM, you are the twelfth man and a tenner on finishing 10th with coral at 1000/1!
Top up when it shortens!

Quoted from Mallyner

First of all I applaud all those who went last night.

Secondly I am as disappointed as anybody at how poorly we are doing, but the fact is and I know it was mainly down to Macca, but the score was better than about 80% as a guess predicted.

It was entirely down to Macca. The first half was the worst half of football I've seen for a long long time. That we went into half time 1-0 up beggared belief... Macca stopped two one-on-ones and their finishing let them down. Our defence frequently let them walk through them and line up a shot, and the one on ones were both people not picked up in the box.

Ironically i thought we improved second half as we were more positive, however when they got the second it was so easy for them to keep the ball away from us.

Every high ball we didnt challenge for,with the exception of Rose. We didnt organise or communicate - for one free kick being crossed in, it was the crowd trying to scream 'two at the back, move one along two at the back!' Noone was talking or taking responsibility on the pitch. When we had outlets out wide on the break they were left isolated as other players were slow to prevent options. We didn't look like we wanted the ball.

Sorry to be so negative but it was awful. Had 2 neutral mates with us and they commented on the gulf of quality, fitness, strength and confidence between us and Mansfield. Men vs. Boys.

On a side note, for both ourselves and Mansfield to give away foul-throws is pretty dire in professional football. Particularly as I find professional refs much more lenient than Sunday league refs (where someone can go in studs up on someone's knee but a foot slightly off the ground for a throw will get pulled up)