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AussieMariner
November 7, 2018, 9:01am Report to Moderator
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Mansfield looked like the team MJ says he is trying to build. High effective pressing (made us look very sloppy in possession), good shape, good movement, energetic, athletic.
Tbh if we’d had Saturday’s ref (or Macca wasn’t at his absolute best) we’d have lost by 3 or 4.
I wonder if we missed Clifton defensively, and agree that Woolford’s lack of pace exposed RJH contributing to him to have a shocker.
As Cloudy said, Mansfield on the night were maybe the best opposition we’ve faced to date but as that guy on D3D4 said in his report they’re at the other end of a re-build.
We need to keep perspective, keep our nerve, recognise the progress we’re making (albeit not as quick as I had certainly hoped for), support MJ and do our bit in staying behind the team.
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Dan
November 7, 2018, 10:30am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Tommy


Only watched the 2nd half tonight. But Liam Hearn (himself a budding Coach) called their winner before Mansfield even got the ball off us. We had a throw-in quite a way into Mansfield's half and before we took it, Liam said if we lose the ball we could be in trouble as we'd left 3v3 at the back. We even gave ourselves a chance to recover back when we briefly won the ball back after losing it, but then lost it again for them to break forward quickly. That extra couple of seconds made no difference and they were away against a still disorganised and unbalanced defensive set-up.



I noticed this on the radio. Hearn was constantly saying we had players too far forward, not tracking back, and leaving us exposed. Think he was being diplomatic, but seemed to know exactly what our problem was, and it's not just not scoring goals.


Quoted from John Fenty, April 2013
I deconstructed the flag to the point where it was safe and couldn’t be considered a danger
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Grantham_Mariner
November 7, 2018, 10:40am Report to Moderator

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If we had Lionel Messie tonight he would not have scores as we have no one in the team capable of passing the ball to him in the last third!


If the football is bad you can always watch the gulls.
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joe56
November 7, 2018, 11:01am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from diehardmariner
First of all, the difference between the two sides last night was Tyler Walker.  A guy who probably shouldn't be playing at this level.  Fine margins and all that I know...

Lack of balance was the key for me last night.  When we kept the ball on the deck we looked very comfortable and I thought for a period in the second half looked absolutely head and shoulders above Mansfield...until we got near their goal and then we didn't know what to do with it.

Hall-Johnson may well turn out to be a very good right-back and he definitely offers something going forward.  But defensively he's far too naive to be the week-in-week-out first choice down that side.  Teams are targetting him because he's there to be got at.  On the other side Hendrie looks like a guy who's playing on his wrong side.  He can get away with against lesser sides but as soon as he comes up against a half decent winger who's capable of going inside and outside, he's done for.  

In front of them it was Woolford and Pringle, switching every five minutes.  Be it them or Embleton and Hooper, there's no real protection.  Woolford just seems to float five yards away from where he needs to be and Pringle looks like he knows what he should be doing but doesn't have the legs/confidence to do it.  If you play without width you become very narrow and further expose your fullbacks.  

Our whole midfield is built around guys who are workers.  Pure grafters who will get up and down the pitch, or in our case go from wing to wing and get stuck in.  There's no creativity at all.  

Up top it doesn't matter who we play, none of them can make the ball stick.  They all want and need someone to play off and/or play them in.  Persisting with Thomas, as we did with Cook earlier in the season, as a target man is bonkers.  He hasn't got the technical or physical attributes for it.  The ball goes up to him, or near him, then comes straight back.  We might as well just punt the ball out for a throw-in in their half and be done with it.

We can't do anything until January so it's a case of making best of what we've got.   In my personal opinion we've got two guys in the squad who are capable of making something happen, that's Vernam and Embleton.  It's essential we have those both on the pitch.  We don't have the players to even try playing a 4-4-2 (or variation of) so why bother?  Get the two creative guys behind a striker, probably Thomas, but with the emphasis of playing him in and playing around him, not using him as a target man.  Pack the midfield with energy to cover the lack of width and protect the full-backs.    It won't win titles and it won't be successful every week, but I honestly think it's all we've got.

I completely agree with Tommy about ineffectual players.  Our squad is riddled with them.  It's easy to blame Fenty for a poor budget but Jolley has spent that budget on a relatively large squad that has very little variation in it.  Perhaps less bodies with more quality would have been a better approach, especially when you consider how many bodies we've got that are offering nothing at present.


Excellent post. I don’t like to criticise individual players, but did Hall-Johnson ever prevent his opponent getting in the cross last night? When he did get the ball he simply hoofed it down the line with no apparent effect. A shame really considering that a very experienced professional acquaintance of mine who made a rare visit to BP for the Notts Co game last season felt that he was far and away our best player and the key man in our setup.
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Tommy
November 7, 2018, 11:20am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from diehardmariner
Hall-Johnson may well turn out to be a very good right-back and he definitely offers something going forward.  But defensively he's far too naive to be the week-in-week-out first choice down that side.  Teams are targetting him because he's there to be got at.  On the other side Hendrie looks like a guy who's playing on his wrong side.  He can get away with against lesser sides but as soon as he comes up against a half decent winger who's capable of going inside and outside, he's done for.  


Agree with this. I don't think RHJ is a bad player, and he's alright with the ball in general (lacks options a lot of the time). But he's struggling at the minute and isn't defending in 1v1's very well. If he's against a quick winger who wants to run him, then he's in trouble in this current spell, particularly without much support around him.

Compare that to the other end of the pitch where our wingers can't outrun anyone, making it easier for the full back to read what they'll do, and keep them in front of them. That's alright if we have that on one side, preferably with an overlapping full-back but I think you need to have someone more direct on one side. Pringle and Woolford, whilst both tidy enough (and Pringle may well turn out to be very good, it's still early), but their full-back's last night would've been delighted to see them line up against them.

Quoted from diehardmariner
We can't do anything until January so it's a case of making best of what we've got.   In my personal opinion we've got two guys in the squad who are capable of making something happen, that's Vernam and Embleton.  It's essential we have those both on the pitch.  We don't have the players to even try playing a 4-4-2 (or variation of) so why bother?  Get the two creative guys behind a striker, probably Thomas, but with the emphasis of playing him in and playing around him, not using him as a target man.  Pack the midfield with energy to cover the lack of width and protect the full-backs.    It won't win titles and it won't be successful every week, but I honestly think it's all we've got.



Most definitely agree. Both may have lacked a final finish several times this season, but without them we lack invention of how to break into the final third with the ball and create anything like a chance at goal.


"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one."
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Tommy
November 7, 2018, 11:46am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from bedders78
Vernam on for Cook at 1-1 was bold, but by then taking a point was looking like the best result we could get and I was hoping for Clifton or Welsh to offer more defensive cover. If Charles had scored the winner, we'd be hailing a tactical masterstroke but it wasn't the percentage, Hurstian move at that moment against a better team.


I'm not saying you're wrong at all, but had he brought Cook (striker) off for Welsh or Clifton (midfielder) and we still lost the game, he'd have been hammered for being negative and inviting pressure. Almost a Hurst-Parslow move.

Hindsight and fine margins are a wonderful thing.

The substitution I was hoping for last night with 10 minutes to go (before they scored their 2nd), was Akheem Rose on for Thomas. We weren't making the ball stick or able to compete in the air whenever it went up anyway, so Rose's inexperience in that aspect wouldn't have made a difference, but he'd have offered a new and different threat for us to get out and get up the pitch. I know he came on after their goal, but by then Mansfield didn't need to push up the pitch and the space wasn't there that they were perhaps leaving while they pushed for a winner.


"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one."
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carrot top
November 7, 2018, 12:12pm Report to Moderator

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The amount of times we had a chance to play it out wide to a player in a good position I lost count of. Instead, we persisted in trying to play it through the middle and it ended up being snapped up by a defender on just about every occasion. Why can we not give it and go out wide and charge in to the box to try and get on the end of a cross is beyond me. Mansfield did this numerous times (particularly down our right) to us and we paid the penalty for it


[color=black]The Ecky 1977
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Tommy
November 7, 2018, 1:59pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Dan


I noticed this on the radio. Hearn was constantly saying we had players too far forward, not tracking back, and leaving us exposed. Think he was being diplomatic, but seemed to know exactly what our problem was, and it's not just not scoring goals.


I personally don't think the players lack effort, or that they don't try getting back. It's just they're not athletic enough to cover lots of ground quickly.

Incidentally, this reminds me of the clip of Leeds players showing unreal desire through their team to get back and defend at the weekend. Have a look at this for anyone who hasn't seen it. Bielsa influence at Leeds is intensity off the ball as well as bravery and quality on it:

https://twitter.com/SoccerAM/status/1059842847367524352


"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one."
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FishOutOfWater
November 7, 2018, 2:06pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Tommy


I personally don't think the players lack effort, or that they don't try getting back. It's just they're not athletic enough to cover lots of ground quickly.

Incidentally, this reminds me of the clip of Leeds players showing unreal desire through their team to get back and defend at the weekend. Have a look at this for anyone who hasn't seen it. Bielsa influence at Leeds is intensity off the ball as well as bravery and quality on it:

https://twitter.com/SoccerAM/status/1059842847367524352


Funnily enough Tommy that Leeds "pack" sprang to mind when I saw the line " players too far forward, not tracking back, and leaving us exposed    " - as you say, ours are not athletic enough to cover lots of ground quickly

What Leeds did was really impressive... it was a collective desire to not allow anyone through whereas at times we're like dominoes, knock one over and then the next and then the next

Imho, if we don't compete on athleticism then it doesn't matter what skills our players have... they won't win many games without the mindset of thinking they're going to snuff out the opposition at all costs
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diehardmariner
November 7, 2018, 2:07pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from carrot top
The amount of times we had a chance to play it out wide to a player in a good position I lost count of. Instead, we persisted in trying to play it through the middle and it ended up being snapped up by a defender on just about every occasion. Why can we not give it and go out wide and charge in to the box to try and get on the end of a cross is beyond me. Mansfield did this numerous times (particularly down our right) to us and we paid the penalty for it


I think we would all like to see it, I definitely would, but the problems are:

1) We have no natural wingers occupying those wide areas.  The players who we're playing out wide lack pace so as long as the opposing full-backs close them down to prevent an early cross, they're not going to get into any space to put a delivery in.
2) We're a relatively small side.   Centre-backs aside the only outfield player we have very little height in the team, the squad even. Even if we do get a decent delivery in the box, we've very little chance of getting on the end of it.  
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