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Scunthorpes 2nd new ground a step closer

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promotion plaice
October 22, 2014, 8:15pm Report to Moderator

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I see the Lincolnshire Lakes plan has been given the green light thus enabling Scunthorpe United FC to submit its own plans for a new stadium.
North Lincolnshire Council has granted outline planning permission for the project.
OH how the other half live.


Sometimes it is the people no one imagines anything of who do the things that no-one can imagine
Alan Turing
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fleabag1970
October 22, 2014, 8:21pm Report to Moderator
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The thing on their side is the ex chairman  & the current Chairman , One owns the land and the other wants nothing but the best for them............................... Now the thing what will be the downfall ........ They don't have the fan base to half fill never mind fill the new stadium , they have only sold out Glumford park once i think?
Also the land Glumford Park stands on has shot up in value due to the new shopping center next door . How long will the Chairman keep funding them that is the question ?


]Remember its just my opinion  ..... It might not be true ............
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Mariner Ronnie
October 22, 2014, 9:06pm Report to Moderator

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FFS! :/


Today we got our team back - town fan leaving Wembley may 2016
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promotion plaice
October 22, 2014, 9:19pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from fleabag1970
The thing on their side is the ex chairman  & the current Chairman , One owns the land and the other wants nothing but the best for them............................... Now the thing what will be the downfall ........ They don't have the fan base to half fill never mind fill the new stadium , they have only sold out Glumford park once i think?
Also the land Glumford Park stands on has shot up in value due to the new shopping center next door . How long will the Chairman keep funding them that is the question ?


They might have the fan base in the future with that amount of new housing, Scunthorpe's population would rocket and probably compete with Grimsby's.
Some Towns seem to be moving forward and some seem to be happy where they sit.
Scunthorpe steel works seems to be at risk if you believe the media, so why the need for this development.
Grimsby could be the new Aberdeen ( renewables )
Someone needs to get of their bottom and make things happen in Grimsby.


Sometimes it is the people no one imagines anything of who do the things that no-one can imagine
Alan Turing
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bax
October 22, 2014, 10:13pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from fleabag1970
The thing on their side is the ex chairman  & the current Chairman , One owns the land and the other wants nothing but the best for them............................... Now the thing what will be the downfall ........ They don't have the fan base to half fill never mind fill the new stadium , they have only sold out Glumford park once i think?
Also the land Glumford Park stands on has shot up in value due to the new shopping center next door . How long will the Chairman keep funding them that is the question ?


I might be wrong, but I don't think the ex chairman does own the land for the new ground. I'm sure it's someone else. And the land for their ground is worth the same as it always has been as there's a retail park next to and opposite. the new M&S devlopment won't add any extra value as the value has always been there.
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WOZOFGRIMSBY
October 22, 2014, 10:27pm Report to Moderator

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I bet there's no lesser spotted flamingos to stop the project either

Our council doesn't want to benifit the team end of. I can almost guarenteed that if it was put to the councillors ; "is grimsby town football club an asset to the local population?" The against'a would outweigh the for's.



“To put it in gentleman’s terms if you’ve been out for a night and you’re looking for a young lady and you pull one, some weeks they’re good looking and some weeks they’re not the best. Our performance today would have been not the best looking bird but at least we got her in the taxi. She weren’t the best looking lady we ended up taking home but she was very pleasant and very nice, so thanks very much, let’s have a coffee”
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The Old Codger
October 22, 2014, 10:39pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from promotion plaice


They might have the fan base in the future with that amount of new housing, Scunthorpe's population would rocket and probably compete with Grimsby's.
Some Towns seem to be moving forward and some seem to be happy where they sit.
Scunthorpe steel works seems to be at risk if you believe the media, so why the need for this development.
Grimsby could be the new Aberdeen ( renewables )
[b][/b]Someone needs to get of their bottom and make things happen in Grimsby.


Over to you John!
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scrumble
October 23, 2014, 8:14am Report to Moderator
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So since Town first touted the idea of a new a ground all those years ago Scunthorpe will have had two before we get ours.


Byddwn ond yn canu pan fyddwn yn pysgota
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TheRonRaffertyFanClub
October 23, 2014, 8:57am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from scrumble
So since Town first touted the idea of a new a ground all those years ago Scunthorpe will have had two before we get ours.


Which only goes to show they got it wrong first time.



"Ah but I was so much older then, I’m younger than that now.” Bob Dylan, My Back Pages
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grimsby pete
October 23, 2014, 9:22am Report to Moderator

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This is only a thought and I have no idea if it would work,

BUT

Could Town build our new stadium on the training ground at Cheapside.?


                           Over 33 years living in Suffolk but always a mariner.
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gtfc98
October 23, 2014, 9:30am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from grimsby pete
This is only a thought and I have no idea if it would work,

BUT

Could Town build our new stadium on the training ground at Cheapside.?


It's a while since you've been to Grimsby isn't it Pete?  


No longer Sick of the BlueSquare  
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grimsby pete
October 23, 2014, 10:07am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from gtfc98


It's a while since you've been to Grimsby isn't it Pete?  


Not really but years since I have been anywhere near the training ground,

Not suitable then ?


                           Over 33 years living in Suffolk but always a mariner.
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The Old Codger
October 23, 2014, 10:13am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from grimsby pete


Not really but years since I have been anywhere near the training ground,

Not suitable then ?


Would be very difficult logistically Pete.. See that I've been red crossed for my 'over to you John' post which I admit was a bit glib, however I do feel that we need a bit less talk and a lot more action. Other clubs, some smaller than ourselves, seem to be managing to deliver, why can't we?
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grimsby pete
October 23, 2014, 10:19am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from The Old Codger


Would be very difficult logistically Pete.. See that I've been red crossed for my 'over to you John' post which I admit was a bit glib, however I do feel that we need a bit less talk and a lot more action. Other clubs, some smaller than ourselves, seem to be managing to deliver, why can't we?


The problem we have is the council,

It's a pity we do not have anybody on the council fighting our corner


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arryarryarry
October 23, 2014, 11:28am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from bax


I might be wrong, but I don't think the ex chairman does own the land for the new ground. I'm sure it's someone else. And the land for their ground is worth the same as it always has been as there's a retail park next to and opposite. the new M&S devlopment won't add any extra value as the value has always been there.



It seems a long time ago now, but was that retail development already there, I thought that the ground was there well before most of that now around it.
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fleabag1970
October 23, 2014, 11:42am Report to Moderator
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I was told the new M&S developement had made all the difference to the land value............. could be wrong though


]Remember its just my opinion  ..... It might not be true ............
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northbankmariner
October 23, 2014, 12:04pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from arryarryarry



It seems a long time ago now, but was that retail development already there, I thought that the ground was there well before most of that now around it.


I believe you are right there, that is how I remembered it as well. For my sins and at the risk of getting publicly slated and flogged I spent a few afternoons at glamford park when town were playing a huge distance away ie portsmouth or Plymouth and I couldn't afford to travel and it was never built up like it is now, but any new development for town would benefit from having similar retail around it.


CLAP
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CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP
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bax
October 23, 2014, 12:54pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from northbankmariner


I believe you are right there, that is how I remembered it as well. For my sins and at the risk of getting publicly slated and flogged I spent a few afternoons at glamford park when town were playing a huge distance away ie portsmouth or Plymouth and I couldn't afford to travel and it was never built up like it is now, but any new development for town would benefit from having similar retail around it.


Yes the ground was there before most of the retail outlets, but the site(s) were always earmarked for retail. It's been built up over the years but the M&S development was previously a garden centre and there are various shops, food outlets etc on both sides of the road.

Either way, Scunny have lots of people behind the scheme while we do not. And unfortunately, IMO, those not behind the GTFC scheme are shouting louder than those behind it.

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oldun
October 23, 2014, 6:04pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from grimsby pete
This is only a thought and I have no idea if it would work,

BUT

Could Town build our new stadium on the training ground at Cheapside.?


Not big enough and near some prestigious houses. Nearby is the old airfield though adjacent to the A16 which I believe is still owned by The Ministry of Defence and has other leisure activities on it, golf course, karting centre. A big far out though and difficult to get to from the motorway, also unlikely to be of interest to retail or entertainment partners.
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moosey_club
October 23, 2014, 8:15pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from oldun


Not big enough and near some prestigious houses. Nearby is the old airfield though adjacent to the A16 which I believe is still owned by The Ministry of Defence and has other leisure activities on it, golf course, karting centre. A big far out though and difficult to get to from the motorway, also unlikely to be of interest to retail or entertainment partners.


Always been my personal choice for a new site.........however.....it would appear that a relatively modern football stadium fairly close to Grimsby is about to become vacant, perhaps we could....


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Alfie
October 23, 2014, 11:10pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from grimsby pete


The problem we have is the council,

It's a pity we do not have anybody on the council fighting our corner


This is great.

NELC need to save nearly £76m by 2017. Please enlighten us as to where and why a new football stadium would be anywhere near the top of a list of priorities for an organisation responsible for dealing with massive social and economic issues.
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MarinerWY
October 24, 2014, 12:34am Report to Moderator

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We´ll keep debating ideal sites till Kingdom Come. Redevelop Blundell Park. It might cost more but in the long run, we own the site, we have spent excrement loads on failed plans so far, and BP is an amazing location for a football ground. What other football ground can you walk down a seafront to, then see a view of ships out at sea and trains going by? It's got heaps of character and it's a great ground to visit.

We're in the Conference with small gate numbers. Close the main stand whilst redeveloping it. Open half the Osmond to accomodate the Town fans, it's not like we get away supporters to fill half of it anyway.

I know all the arguments against this... costs more, need a new site with better access... but if we're still in the same situation in another 5-10 years without an ideal or feasible location and a council against us, it won't look such a daft idea.
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BIGChris
October 24, 2014, 12:32pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Alfie


This is great.

NELC need to save nearly £76m by 2017. Please enlighten us as to where and why a new football stadium would be anywhere near the top of a list of priorities for an organisation responsible for dealing with massive social and economic issues.


All Councils have a huge shortfall to sort and yes, they have to cut expenditure, BUT the other side of the coin is to create income, & one of the ways of doing that is  to sell or rent out  land & buildings they own.
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WOZOFGRIMSBY
October 24, 2014, 1:54pm Report to Moderator

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Aren't there some clubs with agreements that a % of income is given back as well as renting land? Am just thinking about the Coventry city scenario!



“To put it in gentleman’s terms if you’ve been out for a night and you’re looking for a young lady and you pull one, some weeks they’re good looking and some weeks they’re not the best. Our performance today would have been not the best looking bird but at least we got her in the taxi. She weren’t the best looking lady we ended up taking home but she was very pleasant and very nice, so thanks very much, let’s have a coffee”
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rancido
October 24, 2014, 4:08pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from MarinerWY
We´ll keep debating ideal sites till Kingdom Come. Redevelop Blundell Park. It might cost more but in the long run, we own the site, we have spent excrement loads on failed plans so far, and BP is an amazing location for a football ground. What other football ground can you walk down a seafront to, then see a view of ships out at sea and trains going by? It's got heaps of character and it's a great ground to visit.

We're in the Conference with small gate numbers. Close the main stand whilst redeveloping it. Open half the Osmond to accomodate the Town fans, it's not like we get away supporters to fill half of it anyway.

I know all the arguments against this... costs more, need a new site with better access... but if we're still in the same situation in another 5-10 years without an ideal or feasible location and a council against us, it won't look such a daft idea.



But the council said they would not be in favour of any more development at BP. The idea of having a new ground first came about because GTFC approached the then council about possible redevelopment of BP. The council said they would rather the club moved to another site and they would help them help them to do that. I don't think they meant help in monetary terms but advice on possible sites and a more favourable attitude. I cannot see this council or any other in the future granting any kind of planning permission to develop BP. Any increase in capacity, even by 2 or 3 thousand, would be thrown out because of parking and/or congestion. It may seem ok now but I'm sure the council would put all obstacles in the way so that a move becomes the only option.


The Future is Black & White.
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oldun
October 24, 2014, 5:18pm Report to Moderator

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Perhaps it would useful to know from the councillors where they would like to see a new stadium developed that they get right behind and support.
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moosey_club
October 24, 2014, 6:23pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from oldun
Perhaps it would useful to know from the councillors where they would like to see a new stadium developed that they get right behind and support.


Errmmm didnt they approve Great Coates and the club let the planning permission slip in the end?


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Alfie
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Quoted from BIGChris


All Councils have a huge shortfall to sort and yes, they have to cut expenditure, BUT the other side of the coin is to create income, & one of the ways of doing that is  to sell or rent out  land & buildings they own.


No problem with that whatsoever but this idea that GTFC should be straight at the top of their list of priorities and NELC should be crippling themselves to deliver a football stadium on a plate for the club, as consistently endorsed by grimsbypete and others, is a joke.

Quite frankly they have much bigger and more important problems to deal with.
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promotion plaice
October 24, 2014, 8:20pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Alfie


No problem with that whatsoever but this idea that GTFC should be straight at the top of their list of priorities and NELC should be crippling themselves to deliver a football stadium on a plate for the club, as consistently endorsed by grimsbypete and others, is a joke.

Quite frankly they have much bigger and more important problems to deal with.




I don't believe Town are asking for money, all they are asking the council for  is help and support in whatever form to make the new ground happen.
At the end of the day, what is the greatest free advert for any town/city, it's football club.


Sometimes it is the people no one imagines anything of who do the things that no-one can imagine
Alan Turing
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grimsby pete
October 24, 2014, 9:43pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Alfie


No problem with that whatsoever but this idea that GTFC should be straight at the top of their list of priorities and NELC should be crippling themselves to deliver a football stadium on a plate for the club, as consistently endorsed by grimsbypete and others, is a joke.

Quite frankly they have much bigger and more important problems to deal with.


Where did I say that ?

I have noticed you always enjoy having a pop at me at every opportunity ,

Pity you have nothing better to do,

We have been waiting over 10 years for a new stadium so I think asking from time to time why  nothing seems to be moving on that front seems reasonable to me.


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barralad
October 24, 2014, 10:18pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Alfie


No problem with that whatsoever but this idea that GTFC should be straight at the top of their list of priorities and NELC should be crippling themselves to deliver a football stadium on a plate for the club, as consistently endorsed by grimsbypete and others, is a joke.

Quite frankly they have much bigger and more important problems to deal with.


I'm not at all sure NELC will be doing anything of the sort! My understanding is that they are providing the land and someway down the line the infrastructure projects which would be the same for any development that would be expected to create jobs etc.  


I have an inferiority complex-It's not a very good one though.
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WOZOFGRIMSBY
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As it's been said previous, the council has debts. But, it also has a duty to the tax payers. Now, am not saying that they should cripple them selves over giving us an opportunity, moreover how the club and county/local councils can help each other. How could this benefit then :

Employment opportunities : both on the project and also match day
Revenue streams : business' will benefit from a new ground (yes McDonald's, the imp and the blundell will be the main losers unfortunately). I would think though, should a housing development be given the go ahead at BP, it wouldn't be that big a loss
Local well being: the town would have a ground to be proud of (though I love BP) and if correct new shopping/retail/entertainment facilities. Maybe a new cinema in grimsby could be built
Non match day usage: this would be a key area. Giving local business chances to access meeting areas or use the new ground as well as schools college's etc

I would say we have to be underway within the next 18 months (MAX) for this project to happen. Will it? That's another question.



“To put it in gentleman’s terms if you’ve been out for a night and you’re looking for a young lady and you pull one, some weeks they’re good looking and some weeks they’re not the best. Our performance today would have been not the best looking bird but at least we got her in the taxi. She weren’t the best looking lady we ended up taking home but she was very pleasant and very nice, so thanks very much, let’s have a coffee”
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NorthseaMariner
October 25, 2014, 10:54am Report to Moderator
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I tend to think we all just have to accept we will never get a new stadium, so, sadly, stop even thinking about it.
I think the days of GTFC and indeed Grimsby, unless something dramatic happens in the area, are numbered.
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Civvy at last
October 25, 2014, 11:02am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Alfie


This is great.

NELC need to save nearly £76m by 2017. Please enlighten us as to where and why a new football stadium would be anywhere near the top of a list of priorities for an organisation responsible for dealing with massive social and economic issues.


Ahhh, how stupid are we? Obviously any other council that has HELPED any other club to develop a new site doesn't have the problems mentioned above.  Guess they get increased budgets every year and have no other issues to deal with !!  


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cleethorpes_mariner
October 25, 2014, 11:41am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from The Old Codger


Would be very difficult logistically Pete.. See that I've been red crossed for my 'over to you John' post which I admit was a bit glib, however I do feel that we need a bit less talk and a lot more action. Other clubs, some smaller than ourselves, seem to be managing to deliver, why can't we?


For starters we have a backward council with councillors like Cllr De Freitasand Cllr McGilligan-Fell who both have been vocal objectors, ( Cllr De Freitas for both sites) who want to turn this town in to the next seaside  retirement home like Clacton-on-Sea, No vision and ambition to bring prosperity to the town and its population.

You only have to look at Hull and how their council publicise the town and area then look at ours.

Its time for NELC and its councillors to publicly back the scheme and drive this project forward.
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rancido
October 25, 2014, 1:31pm Report to Moderator

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I'm afraid with The Great Dictator running our council greatly supported by his cohorts, who all see things only their way, then I think progress with a new ground will be virtually non-existent. The new bus centre in town is a prime example of their attitude to the feedback and opinions  from Joe Public. It's quite ironic that the local expert on all things to do with buses , Tim " The Marx of The Marsh" Mickleburgh , since he became a councillor ( FFS), has nothing to say about the debacle that is the modernised top town. Obviously a case of toeing the party line regardless of looking at any alternative options. Unfortunately because voters treat council elections like national elections then they vote for a party and not local issues. Sadly we appear to have the council we deserve and not what we need.


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Mariner Ronnie
October 25, 2014, 1:43pm Report to Moderator

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i don't mean to sound stereotypical, but things like de fritas objecting to every single oppurtunity for this town moving forward like houses, new ground, etc, is what is leading to more and more youth leaving school and either ending up on the dole or leaving the town altogether, as there is nothing for them to do, i can see this town becoming a cesspit of doley unless radical changes are made. last but not least, why the intercourse do we need another cinema in the town centre? did anyone see de fritas objecting to that or scatho baths being knocked down?


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rancido
October 25, 2014, 1:56pm Report to Moderator

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[quote=2765]i don't mean to sound stereotypical, but things like de fritas objecting to every single oppurtunity for this town moving forward like houses, new ground, etc, is what is leading to more and more youth leaving school and either ending up on the dole or leaving the town altogether, as there is nothing for them to do, i can see this town becoming a cesspit of doley unless radical changes are made. last but not least, why the intercourse do we need another cinema in the town centre? did anyone see de fritas objecting to that or scatho baths being knocked down?[/quote]


DeFreitarse might have objected but our local Politburo would have outvoted him. Even Labour Coucillors who didn't want a new swimming baths had to toe the party line and vote for it.


The Future is Black & White.
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oldun
October 26, 2014, 6:22pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from moosey_club


Errmmm didnt they approve Great Coates and the club let the planning permission slip in the end?


I don't think they did due to local objections.
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mimma
October 26, 2014, 9:23pm Report to Moderator
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Moosey_club, it took TEN years from the first application, to planning permission being granted, by which time the funding had long since disappeared. The objectors led the council a merry old dance to drag it out, whilst JF & the club were left helpless bystanders.

What gets me is how other councils bend over backwards to help their local football club to relocate, whilst our council...........(fill it in yourself).

Prime example is the KC stadium, built in a residential area, next to the infirmary, but planning permission was granted in no time. How??
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KingstonMariner
October 26, 2014, 10:09pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Mariner Ronnie
scatho baths being knocked down?


So they're going through with that mad plan are they. What does that leave the town with?



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moosey_club
October 26, 2014, 11:05pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from mimma
Moosey_club, it took TEN years from the first application, to planning permission being granted, by which time the funding had long since disappeared. The objectors led the council a merry old dance to drag it out, whilst JF & the club were left helpless bystanders.

What gets me is how other councils bend over backwards to help their local football club to relocate, whilst our council...........(fill it in yourself).

Prime example is the KC stadium, built in a residential area, next to the infirmary, but planning permission was granted in no time. How??


It probably took longer than that from the initial identification of the site due to the club not actually moving any plans forward for god knows how long...yes 10 yrs or so once JF beefed up the bid but...the council has to go through due process and the objectors had plenty of "genuine" grounds for arguing, wildlife , industry disaster zones etc so was never going to be a 12 month process.
The fact stands that permission was granted..eventually...and then after chucking all that time,effort ad money at it JF let  it go as he had no partner to fund it.


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Mariner Ronnie
October 26, 2014, 11:20pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from KingstonMariner


So they're going through with that mad plan are they. What does that leave the town with?



New leisure facilities being built on the old tip behind Macauley school


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WOZOFGRIMSBY
October 27, 2014, 11:31am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Mariner Ronnie


New leisure facilities being built on the old tip behind Macauley school


And wouldn't it have been good if a whole sporting and leisure complex could've been built there too!!



“To put it in gentleman’s terms if you’ve been out for a night and you’re looking for a young lady and you pull one, some weeks they’re good looking and some weeks they’re not the best. Our performance today would have been not the best looking bird but at least we got her in the taxi. She weren’t the best looking lady we ended up taking home but she was very pleasant and very nice, so thanks very much, let’s have a coffee”
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rancido
October 27, 2014, 2:17pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from moosey_club


It probably took longer than that from the initial identification of the site due to the club not actually moving any plans forward for god knows how long...yes 10 yrs or so once JF beefed up the bid but...the council has to go through due process and the objectors had plenty of "genuine" grounds for arguing, wildlife , industry disaster zones etc so was never going to be a 12 month process.
The fact stands that permission was granted..eventually...and then after chucking all that time,effort ad money at it JF let  it go as he had no partner to fund it.



Another " objector" that came to the surface was Network Rail who insisted that Great Coates crossing had to be updated and the club would have to pay. This was despite the fact that they had already had plans to upgrade the crossing anyway. I seem to recall a poster on here first mentioning this and JF re-iterated it later.


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horsforthmariner
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Ok there is a fair amount of anger in this thread (quite rightly in my view about the Council - which is rubbish) However I think a few things need to be cleared up.

NE Lincs did grant planning permission for the Great Coates site but they attached conditions to the approval that made it not viable economically. This is a common trick that Council planning departments do but is now harder to get away with due to changes in planning legislation since the Great Coates plan collapsed.

There is much anger towards Defreitas (I personally detest the man) but he is an effective local politician. He is simply backing the views of his wards residents (well actually the residents who vote.) More people in his ward (Park) will oppose a new ground (and while most will say its about traffic, crematorium etc, in reality its because they think it will lower the value of their house). There is no way that Defreitas or his residents are persuadable so we should stop bothering with them.

What we should be doing is bothering with the other 44 councillors on NE Lincs. Everyone on this board has a democratic right to contact their local Councillors and ask him what their views on the football ground are, whether they have signed the petition for (or against) the new ground. You can find out who your local councillors is at http://www.nelincs.gov.uk/coun.....-advice/ward-search/

Most of you will have three so its worth contacting all of them.
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horsforthmariner
October 27, 2014, 3:42pm Report to Moderator
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Oh and you also pay for what you get - Grimsby's Councillors tend to be a bit rubbish as they get paid less than pretty much any unitary authority in the Country. £7,500 for what in some cases is virtually a full time job.
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rancido
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Quoted from horsforthmariner
Oh and you also pay for what you get - Grimsby's Councillors tend to be a bit rubbish as they get paid less than pretty much any unitary authority in the Country. £7,500 for what[b] in some cases is virtually a full time job.


[/

b]  I think it is for " The Marx of The Marsh"


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