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Positive move

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gary_elton
October 13, 2014, 11:48pm Report to Moderator

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Keep politics out of football... or as some might see our last 10 years as us keeping football out of football...  

but always for an armistice day  ceremony or whatever...  UTM !!!


All my pictures , Seem to fade to black and white.... (Reg Dwight)
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arryarryarry
October 14, 2014, 12:02am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from codcheeky


I do not know why you posted the original statement  , maybe in some attempt at populism but it is complete nonsense, who have we ever fought would ban football games? The germans never even stopped POWs playing football and the russians in the soviet union actively encouraged sport even to the point of cheating in countries they controlled,  How many countries that britain has controlled have we stopped citizens playing their sports?


A good job too otherwise Sylvester Stallone may not have made it back to play Rocky
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Garth
October 14, 2014, 12:43pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from codcheeky


I do not know why you posted the original statement  , maybe in some attempt at populism but it is complete nonsense, who have we ever fought would ban football games? The germans never even stopped POWs playing football and the russians in the soviet union actively encouraged sport even to the point of cheating in countries they controlled,  How many countries that britain has controlled have we stopped citizens playing their sports?


Only if the were blond ayrian, there would have been no place for black people --read your history
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rancido
October 14, 2014, 2:37pm Report to Moderator

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I don't get this differentiating between armed forces members now and then. Once you join any armed service then you are involved with whatever conflict arises regardless of what your own opinions are. It might be your choice to enlist and obviously fight if required but you have no say whatsoever where that conflict is or why it arose. Both the World Wars involved a lot of volunteers as well as conscripts plus the regular forces who joined before any conflicts arose.

I also don't have any problems with this so called " Americanisation " approach. As far as the armed forces are concerned American people are very supportive of " Veterans " and they certainly seem to be better treated than we do ours. I have spent a lot of time in the US, both my daughters are married to Americans and the general impression of them by people in this country is a lot different to  what they are really like in their everyday life.


The Future is Black & White.
"The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
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Garth
October 14, 2014, 3:28pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from rancido
I don't get this differentiating between armed forces members now and then. Once you join any armed service then you are involved with whatever conflict arises regardless of what your own opinions are. It might be your choice to enlist and obviously fight if required but you have no say whatsoever where that conflict is or why it arose. Both the World Wars involved a lot of volunteers as well as conscripts plus the regular forces who joined before any conflicts arose.

I also don't have any problems with this so called " Americanisation " approach. As far as the armed forces are concerned American people are very supportive of " Veterans " and they certainly seem to be better treated than we do ours. I have spent a lot of time in the US, both my daughters are married to Americans and the general impression of them by people in this country is a lot different to  what they are really like in their everyday life.


After WW1  Lady Bonham Carter advised the young ladys of the day not to associate with returning soldiers in case they should catch VD  (Allegedly)
,Home sweet Home for returning heroes, do me a favour Phftt,
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KingstonMariner
October 14, 2014, 9:31pm Report to Moderator
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"Homes fit for heroes. And Only heroes could live in them*," as my old history teacher Gordon Taylor used to joke.

* Probably not fair really as I'd happily live in an inter-war house right now (council or private).


Through the door there came familiar laughter,
I saw your face and heard you call my name.
Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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Marinerz93
October 15, 2014, 8:58pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Paris Mariner
Whilst I have no issue with this - Armistice Day commemorations have been taking place for many years at football matches it saddens me that we are seeing an Americanism of our sport with an increasing number of games featuring members of the armed forces before kick off and been given free tickets in the crowd.


http://www.codalmighty.com/site/ca.php?article=46

This year also marks the 100th anniversary of the First World War, there will be special mention of those soldiers - including the Mariners' own 1914 squad – who took part in the fighting.

Americanisms or over due recognition, you could debate this till the cows come home.  

The facts are Town players joined the forces and lost their lives, these weren't experienced serviceman and I doubt we will ever see anything like the selfless acts of bravery ever again.  The link between then and now are those who are still serving, volunteering so others aren't forced to like in other countries (conscripts).  The reason why you see Forces personnel at these events, is because they have been asked to represent those who we lost all those years ago.

Plenty of people are given free tickets at both home and away games who are far less deserving but I don't see anyone vilifying them.


Supporting the Mighty Mariners for over 30 years, home town club is were the heart and soul is and it's great to be a part of it.

Jesus’ disciple Peter, picked up a fish to get the tribute money from it, Jesus left his thumb print on the fish, bless'ed is the Haddock.
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Marinerz93
October 15, 2014, 9:23pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from MarinerWY

i have no idea why someone who joined up to do a paid job in the armed forced through their own choice, and went to fight in some very morally and legally questionable wars, should get free tickets, or special heroic treatement, as opposed to NHS staff for example.

it's a kind of jingoism that worryingly stifles debate about the nature of our military and their involvement in conflicts of questionable motivation.
.


The difference between HM Forces and any other civilian occupation goes further than just a paid job.  A service personnels life isn't their own, he/she can not turn down working extra hours, can not refuse to go some where they are told to go, they have no choice of living conditions or living standards and they certainly can not plan in the long term i.e.; holidays or family celebrations and that's speaking from 22 years HM Forces experience. So how you are trying to say is just a paid job beggars belief.

The Forces act on Parliamentary polices and they are the polices you allowed to be made because of your voting rights in a democratic society, if they are legally questionable why haven't any MP's or Prime Minsters been prosecuted.

I would like to see you ask the Para who lost 3 limbs in Afghanistan why he deserves more heroic treatment than other government sector workers.

Still several service personnel died for you to have those insular views, each to their own, I volunteer is better than 10 pressed men.


Supporting the Mighty Mariners for over 30 years, home town club is were the heart and soul is and it's great to be a part of it.

Jesus’ disciple Peter, picked up a fish to get the tribute money from it, Jesus left his thumb print on the fish, bless'ed is the Haddock.
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TheRonRaffertyFanClub
October 15, 2014, 9:40pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Marinerz93


The reason why you see Forces personnel at these events, is because they have been asked to represent those who we lost all those years ago.


You must know something the rest of us don't then. It certainly does not say anything like that in the club's blurb about this event and I haven't heard it said anywhere else.

I don't think anyone would deny that service life following orders and being posted all over is hard. Neither do I think anything said was meant in a derogatory way about service personnel. The point was that these days, since the end of national service, joining up has been completely voluntary and more importantly the forces have advertised very strongly the careers aspect of enlisting. Therefore in that sense it is as much a paid job as being on a trawler or in an office or on a hospital ward.


"Ah but I was so much older then, I’m younger than that now.” Bob Dylan, My Back Pages
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Marinerz93
October 15, 2014, 10:02pm Report to Moderator

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You must know something the rest of us don't then. It certainly does not say anything like that in the club's blurb about this event and I haven't heard it said anywhere else.

I don't think anyone would deny that service life following orders and being posted all over is hard. Neither do I think anything said was meant in a derogatory way about service personnel. The point was that these days, since the end of national service, joining up has been completely voluntary and more importantly the forces have advertised very strongly the careers aspect of enlisting. Therefore in that sense it is as much a paid job as being on a trawler or in an office or on a hospital ward.


Are you saying they haven't been invited and it's a military coup  

I appreciate your view but you can't just decide on a Monday that you're not going into work because you've had enough or you are going to work for someone else.  My point being, it isn't just a paid job because your life isn't your own and you do not have the same choices as a civilian does.  You can not compare them as the same.

The advertising of jobs is to inform a generation who knows very little about modern day HM Forces.  Years ago the majority of people in this country either knew someone or had family members serving in the Forces.  If there isn't enough volunteers what do you think the government will do.

I did read the previous posters comments as slightly derogatory but, thought it more of one of ignorance.


Supporting the Mighty Mariners for over 30 years, home town club is were the heart and soul is and it's great to be a part of it.

Jesus’ disciple Peter, picked up a fish to get the tribute money from it, Jesus left his thumb print on the fish, bless'ed is the Haddock.
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