Welcome, Guest.
Please login or register.
Fishy Forum Fishy Boards Archive › Positive move
Users Browsing Forum
No Members and 75 Guests

Positive move

  This thread currently has 5,498 views. Print
6 Pages Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All Recommend Thread
LH
October 12, 2014, 10:49pm

Moderator
Posts: 9,719
Posts Per Day: 2.01
Reputation: 74.88%
Rep Score: +28 / -10
Approval: +11,952
Gold Stars: 3
There is definitely a time and a place for the military and football to cross over and this is it. It is not right for members of the forces to march the FA and European Cups out Wembley or do the big flag displays at finals imo. The free ticket thing is a nice reward for doing such a tough job, but in my opinion they should be awarded to nominated candidates rather than willy-nilly as they are now.


Also, I'll gladly come and do some bucket holding if anymore volunteers are required.


🏴‍☠️🏴‍☠️🏴‍☠️
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 10 - 52
MarinerWY
October 12, 2014, 11:47pm

Table Wine Drinker
Posts: 880
Posts Per Day: 0.18
Reputation: 69.11%
Rep Score: +8 / -5
Approval: +1,104
Gold Stars: 1


You certainly wouldn't be able to post that comment.



really? comments like this seem to be harking back to world war 2. wars since have not been to protect against any serious threat of invasion and totalitarian rule.

i have no idea why someone who joined up to do a paid job in the armed forced through their own choice, and went to fight in some very morally and legally questionable wars, should get free tickets, or special heroic treatement, as opposed to NHS staff for example.

it's a kind of jingoism that worryingly stifles debate about the nature of our military and their involvement in conflicts of questionable motivation.

armistice day is a slightly different question. it's remembering millions of victims on all sides that fought in a needless and completely preventable war.
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 11 - 52
Brisbane Mariner
October 13, 2014, 3:48am

UTM!
Fine Wine Drinker
Posts: 1,113
Posts Per Day: 0.24
Reputation: 83.37%
Rep Score: +12 / -2
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Approval: +163
Quoted from WOZOFGRIMSBY
Opening up the pontoon would've been a more fitting tribute for our sea fairing heros IMHO
Maybe printed some as black writing on white paper and vice versa. Get the pontoon full and hold up the paper to signify gtfc or similar

Then we can all make paper airplanes to chuck at the oppo's keeper!


Our sea faring heroes are proud men and i would think many have a place for GTFC over the years - my Grandad does - he's 101 and still asks me about how are town doing and who scored etc. He was in WW2 in Arctic Convoys (PQ17 on the Northern Gem amongst others) and also skippered landing craft at D-Day landing in Aramanches and Bayeaux

This from my aunties account of a chat with him when they did the specials on TV this year.

Charlie and I went over to see him for tea and took him in some fish and chips and the coverage was still on and the service was just starting from the beach at Aramanches with all the Normandy Veterans there, dare I say, most of whom were aged from 89 years upwards and some were more doddery than your grandad.  Anyway, they kept showing wartime footage of landing craft, etc and he started saying that they were what he was on and he was explaining to Charlie how they got in as far as they could to the beach, dropped the front and then the soldiers got off, waist deep in water and went onto the beaches, whilst he had to double back for the next load of soldiers.  He said that he was on 3 different landing craft in total, as the first two got sunk, and that on one of the journeys to the beach the landing craft next to him got ‘shelled’ and just exploded into pieces along with all aboard, about 30 in total.  I have never heard him say this before, I knew that he was on a landing craft on D Day, but that is all.  He kept describing the town/village of Aramanches and was keen to see the veterans march through the streets to see if it was still the same as when he was there in the town.  

UTM and UTGySailors


Its hard enough remembering my opinions without remembering my reasons for them!
Brisbane - beautiful one day and perfect the next! UTM!!!

Religion: An Idiotic holding of firm belief in an unknown entity. The more challenging it gets, the firmer the hold. Atheists are often condemned as enemies, infidels or morons. Strange rituals are performed at the weekend. My Religion is GTFC!
Logged Offline
Private Message Skype
Reply: 12 - 52
TheRonRaffertyFanClub
October 13, 2014, 8:28am
Vodka Drinker
Posts: 7,317
Posts Per Day: 1.61
Reputation: 79.65%
Rep Score: +43 / -11
Location: Norfolk
Approval: +8,157
Gold Stars: 1
Quoted from MarinerWY


really? comments like this seem to be harking back to world war 2. wars since have not been to protect against any serious threat of invasion and totalitarian rule.

i have no idea why someone who joined up to do a paid job in the armed forced through their own choice, and went to fight in some very morally and legally questionable wars, should get free tickets, or special heroic treatement, as opposed to NHS staff for example.

it's a kind of jingoism that worryingly stifles debate about the nature of our military and their involvement in conflicts of questionable motivation.

armistice day is a slightly different question. it's remembering millions of victims on all sides that fought in a needless and completely preventable war.


I am not particularly in favour of the club's idea.

There might be one argument about the more recent veterans who knew that they were signing up for interventionist wars. On the other hand they were injured carrying out the lawful policies of their country. Whether those policies are right or wrong should not affect kindness to individuals should it? Whether that should mean free tickets is again another issue. I can't see why that is needed.

WW2 is different because so many of the population in Grimsby and other towns were involved in the services and as civilians. I would object to free tickets for WW2 services personnel like my father and not for my mother who worked in munitions at Service Engineering, or my uncles who served on minesweepers for instance. That was a national effort to save the country for future generations like us. WW2 was neither needless nor preventable. It guaranteed the freedom for people to have the opinion that it was! We may think our freedoms are heavily curtailed today but it does not take a lot of thought to see that we have far more liberty than we would have if we had not fought and won that war.

Personally I don't like these free ticket notions because they are divisive and unnecessary. Charities can be supported without this kind of holier than thou activity.


“I think I'm goin' back
To the things I learned so well in my youth
I think I'm returning to
Those days when I was young enough to know the truth."
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 13 - 52
MarinerWY
October 13, 2014, 9:18am

Table Wine Drinker
Posts: 880
Posts Per Day: 0.18
Reputation: 69.11%
Rep Score: +8 / -5
Approval: +1,104
Gold Stars: 1

WW2 is different because so many of the population in Grimsby and other towns were involved in the services and as civilians. I would object to free tickets for WW2 services personnel like my father and not for my mother who worked in munitions at Service Engineering, or my uncles who served on minesweepers for instance. That was a national effort to save the country for future generations like us. WW2 was neither needless nor preventable. It guaranteed the freedom for people to have the opinion that it was! We may think our freedoms are heavily curtailed today but it does not take a lot of thought to see that we have far more liberty than we would have if we had not fought and won that war.


i completely agree with all of that, hence my first statement. ww2 is a completely different situation, and one which definitely would have threateneed our very freedom and liberty and that of millions of others across europe. without a doubt, and i'm proud of all those that contributed to the struggle.

however in terms of justification and motivation for war, imo it's hard to make that argument for many wars since that the UK have been involved in, which have served other political aims.

the "needless and preventable" statement was referring to world war 1, as i thought armistice day was related to the day ww1 ended? with conscription, the soldiers who died in that war were victims of what was arguably a very avoidable war.

On the other hand they were injured carrying out the lawful policies of their country.


i'd also question the "lawful" part of that statement. there wasn't much lawful about bloody sunday or the iraq war, for example. at some point the "just doing a job" or "just following orders" becomes morally redundant if there are doubts about legality and morality of conflicts.

ww2 was a clear case of a neccessary war that protected the liberty and security of the citizens of the UK and europe. various wars since then have represented geo-political interests far removed from the wishes or needs of citizens.
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 14 - 52
tashee69
October 13, 2014, 9:30am

Cocktail Drinker
Posts: 1,533
Posts Per Day: 0.36
Reputation: 85.43%
Rep Score: +27 / -4
Approval: +364
Think this football thread is in danger of becoming a non footy political thread


Baldrick ! The only impression you can do is that of a man with no talent !!
GTFC team 09/10 - Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick, Baldrick.
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 15 - 52
TheRonRaffertyFanClub
October 13, 2014, 9:51am
Vodka Drinker
Posts: 7,317
Posts Per Day: 1.61
Reputation: 79.65%
Rep Score: +43 / -11
Location: Norfolk
Approval: +8,157
Gold Stars: 1
Quoted from MarinerWY



the "needless and preventable" statement was referring to world war 1, as i thought armistice day was related to the day ww1 ended? with conscription, the soldiers who died in that war were victims of what was arguably a very avoidable war.



i'd also question the "lawful" part of that statement. there wasn't much lawful about bloody sunday or the iraq war, for example. at some point the "just doing a job" or "just following orders" becomes morally redundant if there are doubts about legality and morality of conflicts.

ww2 was a clear case of a neccessary war that protected the liberty and security of the citizens of the UK and europe. various wars since then have represented geo-political interests far removed from the wishes or needs of citizens.


The origins of WW1 lie in nationalist ambitions and particularly those of the Kaiser. It can be argued that the actual start of the war was an unfortunate accidental combination of circumstances and misjudgments but the greatest probability is that the war would have found another excuse to begin. The initial cause was many miles away from the UK but there was a very real fear about the German fleet and that this country could be invaded.

The sheer number of volunteers and the first hand accounts of the ordinary people involved show clearly an overwhelming support for the war. Obviously after some time that support waned but nevertheless it was still very strong especially along the east coast after the shelling of seaside towns and zeppelin raids on civilian targets.

I totally agree with you about the wars since 1945 which have been often of dubious legality particularly Iraq 2 but WW1 does not fall into that category. Neither is it fair to take out our political objections out on the people who fought in those wars. That does not mean we should give blanket approval through gimmicks like free ticketing.

As you say, that kind of thing smacks of jingoism and makes us cynical about motives. It is not for GTFC to say who and what the fans should support. Why not give free access to cancer sufferers and collect for Macmillan nurses? Think what the outcry would be from the MS sufferers. I would be happy to see Remembrance Day commemorated at the club in some way but not this way.


“I think I'm goin' back
To the things I learned so well in my youth
I think I'm returning to
Those days when I was young enough to know the truth."
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 16 - 52
Garth
October 13, 2014, 10:42am

Season Ticket Holder
Posts: 11,157
Posts Per Day: 2.31
Reputation: 80.75%
Rep Score: +55 / -13
Approval: +4,710
Gold Stars: 3
Quoted from codcheeky


Absolute nonsense


Really! there are different types of wars, WW1 and WW2 were wars that were dominated by Germany via the Austrian/ Serbian incident and involved us as treaty members,WW1 France, Belgium, and Russia. and WW2 invasion of Poland, both were military conquests that would have had an effect on this country had they succeeded, were they unavoidable YES all wars are but sadly one party can`t see that.
I discount the Blair Bush wars as political gain and IMO were avoidable.

IS are now the new culprits to try to dominate by force and terror both in their own countries and ours,and without an alert brave security and military  presence football would be way down the list of our importance.
So I am in favour of showing gratitude in whatever way
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 17 - 52
codcheeky
October 13, 2014, 10:52pm
Cocktail Drinker
Posts: 1,635
Posts Per Day: 0.41
Reputation: 82.87%
Rep Score: +21 / -4
Approval: +661
Gold Stars: 2
Quoted from Garth


Really! there are different types of wars, WW1 and WW2 were wars that were dominated by Germany via the Austrian/ Serbian incident and involved us as treaty members,WW1 France, Belgium, and Russia. and WW2 invasion of Poland, both were military conquests that would have had an effect on this country had they succeeded, were they unavoidable YES all wars are but sadly one party can`t see that.
I discount the Blair Bush wars as political gain and IMO were avoidable.

IS are now the new culprits to try to dominate by force and terror both in their own countries and ours,and without an alert brave security and military  presence football would be way down the list of our importance.
So I am in favour of showing gratitude in whatever way


I do not know why you posted the original statement  , maybe in some attempt at populism but it is complete nonsense, who have we ever fought would ban football games? The germans never even stopped POWs playing football and the russians in the soviet union actively encouraged sport even to the point of cheating in countries they controlled,  How many countries that britain has controlled have we stopped citizens playing their sports?
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 18 - 52
lee65
October 13, 2014, 11:20pm
Cocktail Drinker
Posts: 1,652
Posts Per Day: 0.36
Reputation: 90.8%
Rep Score: +11 / 0
Approval: +1,711
If Germany had won, would our finishing be more efficient now??  
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 19 - 52
6 Pages Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All Recommend Thread
Print

Fishy Forum Fishy Boards Archive › Positive move

Back to top of page

This is not an official forum of Grimsby Town Football Club, the opinions expressed are those of the individual authors. If you see an offensive post then click "Report" on the relevant post. Posts will be deleted at the discretion of the moderators whose decision is final. Posts should abide by the Forum Rules. IP addresses of contributors together with dates and times of access are stored. The opinions and viewpoints expressed by contributors to The Fishy are their own and not necessarily those of The Fishy. The Fishy makes no claims that information dispersed through this forum is accurate or reliable. Also The Fishy cannot be held liable for any statements made by contributors of The Fishy.