Spain v England ... Match Thread

Not sure Klopp is suited to international management myself. You can’t build the intensity his sides have in a week of training every other month.

Quoted from LH

Not sure Klopp is suited to international management myself. You can’t build the intensity his sides have in a week of training every other month.

I'm sure you can still moan about fixture congestion though

Should give it to Shearer. He seems to have all the answers with tactical insights like 'show them less respect' and 'get into them a bit more'.  Mad to think Newcastle went down with that kind of modern, cerebral approach to management.

Spain tried to win , we just tried not to lose . Best team won

Better team won but still disappointed in how we played.

If Southgate does go I hope we get the right man to take us forward.

Who that is I have no idea whoever it is I hope plays to our strengths and not too defensive .

Spain had players free all the time but never gave us the room like we allowed them.

Quoted from Hagrid

Best Team won. Spain have won 7 from 7.

They lost Pedri, they lost Rodri


They deserve it.

And Gavi was out as well.

We could have conceded a lot more goals.

The Spanish press suffocated us.

Good job Rodri went off otherwise we might have been in trouble.

Spain have had most possession for something like 120 consecutive matches. This means the opposition have less time to score.

We have a number of excellent young players for the future.

Kane, Bellingham and Foden players of the year in 3 top footballing countries. All forward players.  All playing for top countries.

They had to give 100% to their clubs.  All very tired generally in this tournament. All 3 well well below their best.

This has made a big difference to our play.  Kane in particular, did not warrant his starting place.  Or subbed earlier.

Spain so good though.  Better than all the other teams as well.

Southgate has to take the criticism on this one. He’s taken it all tournament and at each point in time it’s in a way been warranted. When you look back retrospectively you could argue he’s got us to the final with either the patience and ballsiness to see Bellingham clutch it at 94 against Slovakia, or with the changes against Netherlands that saw us pick up the second of only two wins in 7 over 90 minutes in the tournament.

In this one, the narrative was true, Spain the better team, took the lead and we needed to chase. He made some changes, we built momentum, got the goal and maintained some momentum for a few minutes afterwards and then out of nowhere we reverted back to the safe, pragmatic football that allowed Spain to retain their control on the game. That shift back to the status quo effectively gifted them the game and it was there for all to see that Spain were going to get a second.

Its a mute argument as to whether we maintain the dominance once we had it and go on to win, they could easily win on a break but id rather that than the meek, boring and lifeless end we were given.

Every team needs to balance up their defence and attack and the more football evolves the more that becomes an art form in itself, but when our best individuals are attacking players just let them go and do. Stop restricting them, play with freedom and some pace and let our attack be a genuine first line of defence, not a ‘we’ll slow your pace down but still allow you to progress the ball into our half and keep it there’.

I’ll maintain respect for Southgate for how he’s progressed our game beyond the expectation of last 16 misery tournament after tournament but the quality of player we have available requires the next level of manager and one who will trust and have faith that we’ll simply out score the opposition and play on the front foot so to speak, rather than establish a mindset that we mustn’t concede else we’ll lose the game.

Quoted from gtfc_chris

Southgate has to take the criticism on this one. He’s taken it all tournament and at each point in time it’s in a way been warranted. When you look back retrospectively you could argue he’s got us to the final with either the patience and ballsiness to see Bellingham clutch it at 94 against Slovakia, or with the changes against Netherlands that saw us pick up the second of only two wins in 7 over 90 minutes in the tournament.

In this one, the narrative was true, Spain the better team, took the lead and we needed to chase. He made some changes, we built momentum, got the goal and maintained some momentum for a few minutes afterwards and then out of nowhere we reverted back to the safe, pragmatic football that allowed Spain to retain their control on the game. That shift back to the status quo effectively gifted them the game and it was there for all to see that Spain were going to get a second.

Its a mute argument as to whether we maintain the dominance once we had it and go on to win, they could easily win on a break but id rather that than the meek, boring and lifeless end we were given.

Every team needs to balance up their defence and attack and the more football evolves the more that becomes an art form in itself, but when our best individuals are attacking players just let them go and do. Stop restricting them, play with freedom and some pace and let our attack be a genuine first line of defence, not a ‘we’ll slow your pace down but still allow you to progress the ball into our half and keep it there’.

I’ll maintain respect for Southgate for how he’s progressed our game beyond the expectation of last 16 misery tournament after tournament but the quality of player we have available requires the next level of manager and one who will trust and have faith that we’ll simply out score the opposition and play on the front foot so to speak, rather than establish a mindset that we mustn’t concede else we’ll lose the game.

To be honest I’m not sure what Southgate could do about Bellingham not being able to pass a ball 5 yards tonight, Walker over hitting a cross when he’s under zero pressure or Kane looking like he got his first touch from the celebrity team in soccer aid etc.. etc..

I think at times some of the criticism has been warranted over the years but tonight too many players where out played by a better team.

The interesting thing is that who comes in now? Gareth will go but replacing someone who is now an experienced manager & the architect of an environment where players with big egos seem to unite will not be easy.

After a little reflection, a few more thoughts (which mostly follow on from my post a few minutes ago).

Mainoo is still only young and inexperienced, but is the sort of player we need to develop in midfield if we're ever going to become real contenders. I reckon that a midfield pairing of Mainoo and Bellingham would be very good in this regard (remember back when Bellingham was a central midfielder?), but I'm not sure his ego would allow him to play this role now. Ultimately, we've got to realise that the likes of Gallagher can't really be playing much of a role if we want to improve in the future. Rice is a good player but he's not technically good enough to be a really top quality international midfielder. I didn't really watch the game with Wharton playing so can't say from what I've seen myself, but some on this forum mentioned he might be one for the future? Able to retain possession as well as capable of the defensive stuff?

If we get a midfield capable of matching those of the best teams, Foden will perhaps be able to show his ability a bit more. He's generally been disappointing during his England career and, the odd flash of skill aside, he's done very little this tournament. He's a better player (unsurprisingly) in front of a dominant midfield at Man City, but is mostly ineffective for England. One goal every ten games for an attacking midfielder/forward as he's managed for England really isn't good enough, especially in a team which is nominally one of the top ten in the world.

The defence were OK this tournament and we were notably better with the balance of Shaw on the left during that first half today. Unfortunately, he's no youngster now, struggles with fitness and we really need another left-sided full-back/wing-back. No idea if any such player is coming through. Walker probably OK for another tournament as long as you accept his limitations with the ball at his feet. Is there a replacement coming through? TAA is not an international quality full-back/wing-back at present, so we can rule him out. I can't really think of many other full-backs in the country who look anywhere near ready to play for England.

Guehi played well in general and I'll blame fatigue for his failure to follow the runner for their winner today. They defence had to do a heck of a lot of running because the midfield coughed the ball up endlessly so no surprise they were so tired near the end. Konsa played well when called upon and Stones is still a good player so central defence is one area where we look to be in reasonable shape at the moment.

Up front, Kane has been getting a hammering from some people, mostly undeserved in my view. In recent years, he's not a player who will run up and down the channels as he did when he was younger, but he's the only top-quality striker we've got at present. He was also the most lethal striker in the top European leagues last season. The difference is that Bayern didn't play him as a lone forward who was incredibly isolated with no pace around him. We also hardly got the ball into the box this tournament. The stats for touches in the opposition box by each team would be embarrassing to see tonight because we barely got anywhere near them and the same was true throughout the tournament.

Watkins is an honest enough player who has a goal in him now and again (including excellent strikes like the one against Holland), but the stats don't lie. He's 28 years old and last season was the only time he's ever got near Kane's goals/minute ratio. He's never going to score a lot of goals in tournament football, though he'd probably get a few in the qualifiers. Ivan Toney is another 28 year old who is a decent enough player and coming off the back of a couple of decent seasons, but he's not a top-quality international striker. Same goes for Rashford who has always blowed hot and cold. Ultimately, we don't have a bright future ahead once Kane retires. Let's not get rid of him for not being the player we know he's not. Let's play in a manner which creates the opportunities for him to score.

Pickford has done a good job for England, but I don't think he's big enough for the modern game. Lots of his flaps and punches clear today would have been easily caught by a taller man and his much-vaunted passing let him down today. That said, I'm not sure anybody else is better than him at present. I still think we need better.

That just leaves us with Southgate. No doubt he's done a really good job the the hand he was initially dealt and got us back on our feet after we were in such a shambles when he took over. However, in spite of getting some good results thanks to individual play, we've gone backwards this tournament. Let's face it, we were pretty poor for much of the group stage and were generally outplayed in all the knock-out stages, relying on moments of individual brilliance to progress. I think it is time for him to move on. The way we are playing at the moment is mostly turgid, slow passing and lacking in bravery. Too many panicky whacked clearances yet again tonight.

So, farewell Gareth. Thanks for your efforts and good luck for the future. Not sure who will offer you a job, but I'm sure you'll be OK.

For the next manager, I'd have the best coach available, whoever that might be. I don't care what country they are originally from, just what they can do in the role. I don't think that man is Eddie Howe, incidentally.