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I think there’s a tendency to underestimate the qualities that have brought us this far, and instead focus on the things we don’t do / haven’t done as well as others.

Throughout his tenure, going all the way back to the World Cup in 2018, where it was about getting the media onside in a way we hadn’t really seen before, to this Euros where it’s become more about creating a siege mentality, he’s got the psychology of the team absolutely spot on. We’ve seen plenty of talented teams, including England ones, completely implode due to cliques or egos within the camp.

One of the main reasons we’ve been so turgid at times in this tournament is because, as tournament favourites, other teams have been afraid of us. When teams set-up with those rigid banks of four, with only occasional forays forward, it really makes for a footballing spectacle. The Netherlands were the first side to go toe-to-toe with us in the first-half last night, and we looked magnitudes better for it.

And if Spain are the tournament’s darlings owing to their brand of football, we surely have to be top of the tree in terms of mental fortitude. We simply do not go away. We saw how powerful that kind of quality can be with Town in the play-offs two years ago, and to some extent 2016 (I can see parallels with both scenarios). It’s scary fighting an opponent who won’t stay down.

I think Spain have a bit of a dilemma actually. Do they stick with what they know - their silky, open style - and risk being exposed by the abundance of quality we have in our attacking ranks. Or do they do what others have done, and try to suffocate the life out of England? The latter looked the more likely approach to beat us for the Dutch last night.

England have the better individual players. We have incredible psychological resilience. And we have a team now seemingly released from its shackles, peaking at precisely the right time.

I’ve shared a few unpopular opinions throughout this tournament, but I’ve been proven broadly right each time. Here’s another - Spain have far more to worry about than we do. And we’ll beat them.

Quoted from Poojah

I think there’s a tendency to underestimate the qualities that have brought us this far, and instead focus on the things we don’t do / haven’t done as well as others.

Throughout his tenure, going all the way back to the World Cup in 2018, where it was about getting the media onside in a way we hadn’t really seen before, to this Euros where it’s become more about creating a siege mentality, he’s got the psychology of the team absolutely spot on. We’ve seen plenty of talented teams, including England ones, completely implode due to cliques or egos within the camp.

One of the main reasons we’ve been so turgid at times in this tournament is because, as tournament favourites, other teams have been afraid of us. When teams set-up with those rigid banks of four, with only occasional forays forward, it really makes for a footballing spectacle. The Netherlands were the first side to go toe-to-toe with us in the first-half last night, and we looked magnitudes better for it.

And if Spain are the tournament’s darlings owing to their brand of football, we surely have to be top of the tree in terms of mental fortitude. We simply do not go away. We saw how powerful that kind of quality can be with Town in the play-offs two years ago, and to some extent 2016 (I can see parallels with both scenarios). It’s scary fighting an opponent who won’t stay down.

I think Spain have a bit of a dilemma actually. Do they stick with what they know - their silky, open style - and risk being exposed by the abundance of quality we have in our attacking ranks. Or do they do what others have done, and try to suffocate the life out of England? The latter looked the more likely approach to beat us for the Dutch last night.

England have the better individual players. We have incredible psychological resilience. And we have a team now seemingly released from its shackles, peaking at precisely the right time.

I’ve shared a few unpopular opinions throughout this tournament, but I’ve been proven broadly right each time. Here’s another - Spain have far more to worry about than we do. And we’ll beat them.

Whilst I of course hope you're right with the last point Poojah, Im not sure Spain have far more to worry about.

Their 2 wingers are superb, and they have ( in my opinion) the best in his position in world football with Rodri.

They've won all 6 games, they've got De Normand and Carvajal back in the back line too.

I cant see Spain changing their style, they'll look to the wingers, and I think Shaw has to play, show Yamal on his right foot

Quoted from Maringer

Spain's midfield is much better than the Dutch midfield. I mean, much, much, much better. Possession will be at a premium for us and they'll probably have 70% of the ball so we'll have to take any chances which come our way. Just a pity that we don't seem to be any sort of a threat at set pieces any longer. In fact there haven't been that many goals scored from corners and free-kicks into the box this tournament altogether. I suspect it's because the referees are currently turning a blind eye to all-in wrestling and shirt pulling as the cross comes in.

I can't see Spain having anywhere near that much possession. This Spanish team is very forward thinking and less possession oriented. Every time they get the ball they look to quickly pass forward or directly run at people, even in the centre of the pitch. It's a high risk approach that no teams have managed to cope with yet but there are clear opportunities to get at them, and there should be plenty of space for Bellingham and Foden when Fabian and Olmo press forward.

Spain have been the most tactically fluid team but it'll be interesting to see how our formation matches up against them.

To add, i think Foden has the ability to exploit the space the Spanish leave, I'm not so sure about Bellingham. He's largely avoided criticism this tournament, mainly due to his bicycle kick, but he's offered very little in attack and has been a clear weak link when we're trying to press - basically spends most of his time sauntering about.

I think that Spain will be concerned about England.  They play the better football.  They are clear favourites.  But it is very difficult to beat spirit, character, resilience and never giving up.(Ukraine as a wider example).

3 different players have scored 3 different types of stunning goals - all very late in games. Kane not one of them.  We have players who scored a lot of goals between them last season.

Winning from conceding first in all 3 KO games. Players who can create a moment of brilliance. These are rare qualities.

We have a squad of players who can win games.

Young players will do well over the next 10 years, whatever happens on Sunday.

Mainoo (just 19) was excellent last night and MOM in the FAC Final.  Bellingham won the CL Final and has starred at Madrid.  Adam Wharton is only 20 and said to have a bright future.2

Quoted from Hagrid

Whilst I of course hope you're right with the last point Poojah, Im not sure Spain have far more to worry about.

Their 2 wingers are superb, and they have ( in my opinion) the best in his position in world football with Rodri.

They've won all 6 games, they've got De Normand and Carvajal back in the back line too.

I cant see Spain changing their style, they'll look to the wingers, and I think Shaw has to play, show Yamal on his right foot

That’s why it’s an unpopular opinion - people broadly disagree with it.

Spain have some fabulous players, but they also have some ageing ones phoning in the twilight of their career in Saudi Arabia.

They haven’t met a side with England’s depth of quality and youth yet imo (and I include a poor France side in that). No one has the kind of ability on the bench that we do, which will be vital if it goes into extra-time (which it highly likely will).

England will win.

I think playing Spain will suit us. They'll come at us and they'll leave gaps. If Foden can get the better of Rodri then we will win. But I personally think Rodri is the best midfielder in the world so it's a big ask. I'd like to see Southgate be brave and take Kane off earlier if he's being ineffective. I think having someone willing to go in behind the Spanish defence will create more space between their defence and holding midfielders which will make Foden's task of winning that area much easier. If Kane keeps dropping deep, it will be far too easy for the Spanish to close things down. I also think Shaw needs to start.

Opta stats recorded the highest ever accuracy stats for a midfielder at a European Championship of 133 completed passes out of 138 passes (96%). (Reported by The Times).

This was for Kobbie Mainoo and BEFORE the Netherlands game. Not many of these were forward passes. But last night they were. And driving runs again. A player virtually unknown 6 months ago.

Quoted from Poojah

That’s why it’s an unpopular opinion - people broadly disagree with it.

Spain have some fabulous players, but they also have some ageing ones phoning in the twilight of their career in Saudi Arabia.

They haven’t met a side with England’s depth of quality and youth yet imo (and I include a poor France side in that). No one has the kind of ability on the bench that we do, which will be vital if it goes into extra-time (which it highly likely will).

England will win.

Tend to agree . Having said that been impressed by De La Fuente their manager. Strikes me as a disciplinarian and a decent man. The Spanish have evolved since the days of Luis Enrique at the helm. No longer is it pass,pass but more fluid and dynamic as others have stated which is a byproduct of De La Fuente's tenure in management and adapting and using his own ideas from the 20 or so coaches he has worked with over the years.

We have the best bench in the tournament. Our bench is so good it could probably beat the starting line-up.

Quoted from Mariner93er

I can't see Spain having anywhere near that much possession. This Spanish team is very forward thinking and less possession oriented. Every time they get the ball they look to quickly pass forward or directly run at people, even in the centre of the pitch. It's a high risk approach that no teams have managed to cope with yet but there are clear opportunities to get at them, and there should be plenty of space for Bellingham and Foden when Fabian and Olmo press forward.

Spain have been the most tactically fluid team but it'll be interesting to see how our formation matches up against them.

We'll sit back and defend, hoping to score on the break and/or from a set piece. This is why I think Spain will have the lion's share of possession. Unfortunately, our relative lack of pace in attacking areas (Saka the only one likely to start with anything in the way of pace), means we'll perhaps struggle to create too many chances. Just has been the case in all the games we've played this tournament.

Quoted from TownSNAFU5

Opta stats recorded the highest ever accuracy stats for a midfielder at a European Championship of 133 completed passes out of 138 passes (96%). (Reported by The Times).

This was for Kobbie Mainoo and BEFORE the Netherlands game. Not many of these were forward passes. But last night they were. And driving runs again. A player virtually unknown 6 months ago.

Mainoo has done well, but has tended to fade badly in the last quarter of the game or so. He's only a young lad, so that can be forgiven. He'll need to be right on his game against the Spanish midfield who are all very experienced and talented operators. Expect Rodri to boot Mainoo up into the air in the first 5 minutes of the game and getting away with a ticking off.

Olmo is the one I'm worried about. He's been excellent at arriving in the box at the right time and is a very clever player.

I think there's one area for real optimism:

The Dutch try to play in the same way as Spain, attacking quickly down the wings and getting the ball into the middle quickly to generate chances (they are nowhere near as good at it as Spain).

England did really well in neutralising this last night. They kept the Dutch pinned in their own half for long periods of the game and stopped them feeding the wings with a lot of tackles around the halfway line.

When the Dutch did get a chance to hit us down the wings we generally marked them closely and stopped the ball going into the danger areas. When they did it well they scored or there were a couple of excellent last ditch tackles (Kyle Walker's late in the game was a brilliant challenge)

If we can do the same against Spain we have a chance of disrupting how they want to attack.

I think England could certainly look to target Spains Left hand side

Laporte ( as Poojah said) is playing in Saudi
Cucurella has previously been torn apart by Saka- although he has been fantastic at LB for them this tournament but im sure it'll be in the back of his mind

We absolutely schooled the Dutch in the first half yesterday. Our link-up play was a joy to watch and exactly what we've called for all tournament.  It was only when the Dutch changed formation and set about stifling us rather than trying to beat us that the game became drab in the second half (much like the majority of this tournament).

For all the bells and whistles that Spain have around them, they resorted to just digging it out in the second half against France.  They've looked exceptional in patches and then, just like everyone else, turgid at other times.  Rodri is a great player but you look at our overall quality in midfield and I don't think it's unconceivable that we dominate them in the heart of the pitch.

Key battle will be down the flanks.  Their wingers are electric and it'll be interesting to see just how deep they manage to push out wingbacks back.  Delighted to see Walker back to something like his best last night and ready for a point when he might just be that x-factor on the right hand side of the back three with his pace and reading of the game.

Written that Bellingham turns it on big time against his hosting country.

Quoted from Hagrid

Whilst I of course hope you're right with the last point Poojah, Im not sure Spain have far more to worry about.

Their 2 wingers are superb, and they have ( in my opinion) the best in his position in world football with Rodri.

They've won all 6 games, they've got De Normand and Carvajal back in the back line too.

I cant see Spain changing their style, they'll look to the wingers, and I think Shaw has to play, show Yamal on his right foot

Whilst they may have Rodri who I believe is the standout player in world football right now, but we also have the best players in the world in positions. Kane has had a poor tournament but is the best 9 in the world, Foden is the best 10 in the world, Walker the best right back in the world and Stones has looked as good as ever, Saka is electric on that right hand side and will give Cucurella a torrid time and I assume Shaw will start aswell giving us a lot more natural width on the left pushing Yamal back to help out Carvajal. Guehi has been my stand out of the tournament, dealt with everything that’s come his way, although you miss Maguires aerial ability from set pieces it means you aren’t overly reliant on Walker staying back as Guehi is absolutely rapid allowing us to keep our width both sides.

Quoted from LocalLadGTFC

Whilst they may have Rodri who I believe is the standout player in world football right now, but we also have the best players in the world in positions. Kane has had a poor tournament but is the best 9 in the world, Foden is the best 10 in the world, Walker the best right back in the world and Stones has looked as good as ever, Saka is electric on that right hand side and will give Cucurella a torrid time and I assume Shaw will start aswell giving us a lot more natural width on the left pushing Yamal back to help out Carvajal. Guehi has been my stand out of the tournament, dealt with everything that’s come his way, although you miss Maguires aerial ability from set pieces it means you aren’t overly reliant on Walker staying back as Guehi is absolutely rapid allowing us to keep our width both sides.

I don't think Kane is the best No.9 in the England squad, let alone the world. He's ponderous and has convinced himself that he is some sort of creator/scorer and that he should be everywhere on the pitch.

He would be a lot more effective if he stayed up front and formed the point of the spear.

PS I know many disagree with me about this but look what happens when England use a striker who's quick, full of movement and wants to spend his life in the penalty box!

PPS Although he's generally a useless lump, when he came on Weghorst created absolute chaos. I bet our defenders were dreading going into challenges against him.

Quoted from BobbyCummingsTackle

I don't think Kane is the best No.9 in the England squad, let alone the world. He's ponderous and has convinced himself that he is some sort of creator/scorer and that he should be everywhere on the pitch.

He would be a lot more effective if he stayed up front and formed the point of the spear.

PS I know many disagree with me about this but look what happens when England use a striker who's quick, full of movement and wants to spend his life in the penalty box!

I think some of the criticism of Kane has been harsh - perhaps not at his best but he’s been feeding on scraps at times given the defensive approach of most of our opponents so far. With one game to go there’s still a reasonable chance that he goes home with the golden boot, a winners’ medal or, ideally, both.

My bigger concern with him is his apparent allergy to trophies, something he further reinforced at Bayern last season. Would be a great way to break his duck, though.

Quoted from Poojah

I think some of the criticism of Kane has been harsh - perhaps not at his best but he’s been feeding on scraps at times given the defensive approach of most of our opponents so far. With one game to go there’s still a reasonable chance that he goes home with the golden boot, a winners’ medal or, ideally, both.

My bigger concern with him is his apparent allergy to trophies, something he further reinforced at Bayern last season. Would be a great way to break his duck, though.

I agree with feeding on scraps but I think we've been crying out for someone to run the channels, push the defence back and be in the danger area when the ball arrives. Kane hasn't done that. He's not playing like a No.9 and it just doesn't suit his style, speed (or lack thereof) or skill level. At one point last night we were camped on the edge of their penalty area looking for the target in the box, he popped up on the left side looking to a play a cross in - he should be in the middle on the end of crosses.

Watkins comes on and straight away he's running the defenders, stretching the defence and scores a goal out of nothing.

I am not anti Kane, his record is amazing. I just want him to play to his strengths and lead the line.

Quoted from LocalLadGTFC

Whilst they may have Rodri who I believe is the standout player in world football right now, but we also have the best players in the world in positions. Kane has had a poor tournament but is the best 9 in the world, Foden is the best 10 in the world, Walker the best right back in the world and Stones has looked as good as ever, Saka is electric on that right hand side and will give Cucurella a torrid time and I assume Shaw will start aswell giving us a lot more natural width on the left pushing Yamal back to help out Carvajal. Guehi has been my stand out of the tournament, dealt with everything that’s come his way, although you miss Maguires aerial ability from set pieces it means you aren’t overly reliant on Walker staying back as Guehi is absolutely rapid allowing us to keep our width both sides.

Aren't we effectively playing the same way as Spain did at the back end of their golden period ?

Pretty sure when they had Xavi,Ineiesta ,Busquets etc it was a hybrid 4-6-0 approach with Fabregas/David silva as a false 9 much like Kane is doing dropping in a lot of the time making it a not so fluid 3-7-0 / 4-6-0 and knocking it sidewards and backwards for large spells and grinding out wins like they did at the time . Because it was them it was deemed some sort of masterpiece and artwork now we are doing it , it's deemed turgid and boring by many - I don't particularly enjoy that style of football but fans need to look at it with a bit of balance sometimes

Quoted from LocalLadGTFC

Whilst they may have Rodri who I believe is the standout player in world football right now, but we also have the best players in the world in positions. Kane has had a poor tournament but is the best 9 in the world, Foden is the best 10 in the world, Walker the best right back in the world and Stones has looked as good as ever, Saka is electric on that right hand side and will give Cucurella a torrid time and I assume Shaw will start aswell giving us a lot more natural width on the left pushing Yamal back to help out Carvajal. Guehi has been my stand out of the tournament, dealt with everything that’s come his way, although you miss Maguires aerial ability from set pieces it means you aren’t overly reliant on Walker staying back as Guehi is absolutely rapid allowing us to keep our width both sides.

It’s all about opinions but I don’t think walker is the best right back in the world, and before last night I think stones has had a mare of a tournament (although both were a lot better last night). A full back has to have the ability to go forward and be an attacking force in modern football and walkers distribution is pretty horrendous. Think he is much better as the right hand man in a back 3 like last night which suits him better.

Quoted from Mappers

Aren't we effectively playing the same way as Spain did at the back end of their golden period ?

Pretty sure when they had Xavi,Ineiesta ,Busquets etc it was a hybrid 4-6-0 approach with Fabregas/David silva as a false 9 much like Kane is doing dropping in a lot of the time making it a not so fluid 3-7-0 / 4-6-0 and knocking it sidewards and backwards for large spells and grinding out wins like they did at the time .

Yes your right. That system was forced on the Spanish due to a injury to one of their main strikers .

Still remember Iniesta. What a gem of a player he was. Got voted in a poll as their all time greatest player . Still to this day after being in Spain and knowing people out there is the tremendous impact he had in securing Spain their world cup and proving sceptics wrong that Spain would never win a world cup which as Xavi and Iker Casillas said even players start being affected by the negative press sometimes.

If we start with Kane and Trippier Spain will be to far in front before the substitutions are made. Start with Watkins and Shaw and it’s 50/50.

Quoted from Rick12

Yes your right. That system was forced on the Spanish due to a injury to one of their main strikers .

Still remember Iniesta. What a gem of a player he was. Got voted in a poll as their all time greatest player . Still to this day after being in Spain and knowing people out there is the tremendous impact he had in securing Spain their world cup and proving sceptics wrong that Spain would never win a world cup which as Xavi and Iker Casillas said even players start being affected by the negative press sometimes.

He's still Playing, in Korea or Japan i believe

Quoted from Hagrid

He's still Playing, in Korea or Japan i believe

Yes, until recently,just checked and he's now playing for a club in the United Arab Emirates .

Quoted from Mappers

Individually how many of that Spanish team would get in ours though ?

It wouldn't be more than 4 imo

??
The way they have played ...the full squad !!

Quoted from Posh Harry

It’s all about opinions but I don’t think walker is the best right back in the world, and before last night I think stones has had a mare of a tournament (although both were a lot better last night). A full back has to have the ability to go forward and be an attacking force in modern football and walkers distribution is pretty horrendous. Think he is much better as the right hand man in a back 3 like last night which suits him better.

In what way has Stones had a mare of a tournament? He’s been excellent.

I think Stones hasn't been nearly at his best, but he's been fine in general. Walker has looked distinctly ropey at times but was a bit more like himself against the Dutch. We've really not been under overwhelming pressure at any point in the tournament and I feel this is likely to happen at least in some spells during the Final. The defenders will certainly need to be at their best on Sunday.

Quoted from promotion plaice

Spain have been a cut above but we have grown into the tournament.

Thoughts ?

Have they though? Stats say the opposite.

If you take out their 2 games against lower ranked opponents (Albania & Georgia) how have they done?

They were far too good for possibly the worst Italian team in history. But England were far too good for Italy in qualification and took the maximum 6 points from them. So nothing to worry about there.

They beat Croatia 3-0, but Croatia had more of the ball and created more chances. And had a higher xG if that floats your boat. Spain took their chances. Croatia were wasteful.

In the QF against Germany the Spanish shaded possession (52% to 48%) but Germany created more chances and again had higher xG.

In the SF they obviously dominated possession as France are set up for counter attacking football and exploiting Mbappe’s pace. But France created more chances and again had a higher xG.

I watched that SF. Dembele destroyed that fuzzy haired left back from Chelsea. If he had any end product France would have won that game comfortably.

I’m convinced this is a Final that is England’s to lose. I think it will be decided down our right flank. If Saka is on his game and we set up with Mainoo playing in a disciplined way so Kyle Walker can overlap (Williams doesn’t like tracking back) I think we win the game. And fairly comfortably.

I’d expect the left wing back to play a far more disciplined game in comparison to Saka to keep a close tab on that schoolboy they have on the right.

Just watched a cracking good match on TV. No primma donna's diving as if been shot, no all in wrestling in the penalty area at free kicks and corners, crunching slide tackles going in, and not one single player writhing in agony and rolling about on the grass, and the only time players put their hands on an opponent was to help them back up after a tackle had sent them crashing to the ground. This was the 1966 World Cup Final in colour, and what a pleasure to watch the whole match again.

There’s loads of interesting battles across the pitch.

Saka has absolutely terrorised Cucurella in the PL which bodes well, Rodri v our midfield is probably the one that matters the most and Yamal v Trippier could be a massacre (although him wanting to cut in could be in Trippiers favour). I also worry about Saka being dragged into defensive duties by Williams, Walkers ability to essentially turn a back 5 into a 4 at times is going to be crucial.

I also think it’s much more evenly matched than the tournament performances from both sides has made it look so far.

As a fan I look forward to the occasion but dread the game, it’s going to be tight and bloody horrible at times but I desperately hope we win.

Quoted from pontoonlew

There’s loads of interesting battles across the pitch.

Saka has absolutely terrorised Cucurella in the PL which bodes well, Rodri v our midfield is probably the one that matters the most and Yamal v Trippier could be a massacre (although him wanting to cut in could be in Trippiers favour). I also worry about Saka being dragged into defensive duties by Williams, Walkers ability to essentially turn a back 5 into a 4 at times is going to be crucial.

I also think it’s much more evenly matched than the tournament performances from both sides has made it look so far.

As a fan I look forward to the occasion but dread the game, it’s going to be tight and bloody horrible at times but I desperately hope we win.

Trippier might not start

Quoted from supertown

Trippier might not start

I suspect it will be the same starting line up as the semi.

Cucurella isn't very good and I was surprised to see him playing for Spain this tournament, so I agree that is one area we can get at them. I don't expect Walker to be pushing up very much. He's not done it much up until now and playing against possibly the paciest player in the tournament isn't going to give him much leeway. He's also looked far from his best defensively. Dealing with Olmo is really important because much of Spain's threat has come from his clever play and movement, in addition to what we expect from their talented young wingers.

Ultimately, I'm pessimistic because we've always struggled against continental teams who are good at controlling possession in midfield. We've got more technically capable players these days but without the key pivot who keeps everything moving. Mainoo looks as though he might develop into such of a player, but he's not quite there yet. Also, I think Rice is another who has been below-par this tournament, unusually lax in defence and possession compared to his usual high standards.

I just don't think we've played that well this tournament. Slightly fortunate to get to the Final (xG of 0.88, I read somewhere) and you can't always rely on one of your players to score a wonder-goal for you when planning to win a difficult game.

It would certainly be nice to be wrong!

Amazing stat to worry you. The Spanish national side and their club sides in the European competitions have won the last 28 consecutive finals that they have reached dating back 20 years.

Quoted from HerveJosse

Amazing stat to worry you. The Spanish national side and their club sides in the European competitions have won the last 28 consecutive finals that they have reached dating back 20 years.

These runs have to end at some point.

Quoted from jamesgtfc

These runs have to end at some point.

Probably said that after win number 6

Quoted from pontoonlew

There’s loads of interesting battles across the pitch.

Saka has absolutely terrorised Cucurella in the PL which bodes well, Rodri v our midfield is probably the one that matters the most and Yamal v Trippier could be a massacre (although him wanting to cut in could be in Trippiers favour). I also worry about Saka being dragged into defensive duties by Williams, Walkers ability to essentially turn a back 5 into a 4 at times is going to be crucial.

I also think it’s much more evenly matched than the tournament performances from both sides has made it look so far.

As a fan I look forward to the occasion but dread the game, it’s going to be tight and bloody horrible at times but I desperately hope we win.

I think he start with Luke Shaw, Mainoo had Rodri in his pocket in the FA cup final, a couple of tactical knocks to Williams & Yamal early in the game, to let them they know they in a game.
He start with Kane, not going to drop his captain, personally I would start with Watkins and see how Spain cope with us.

Quoted from Maringer

Cucurella isn't very good and I was surprised to see him playing for Spain this tournament, so I agree that is one area we can get at them.!

Think you maybe being a bit hard on him; got a move to Chelsea from Brighton so must be doing something right.

I agree while not always being one of the shining lights in club football I picked up whilst in Spain some of the Spanish pundits talking about him. During these Euros has fitted well in how Spain play and has been a positive for the team overall.

My personal opinion on him watching him play from this tournament is he's a grafter and whilst not being as good as previous right/left backs from Spanish players in years gone eg Jordi Alba is a player I've come to like.

It's win-win really. England win and lovely stuff. Spain win and I don't have to hear Sweet fucking Caroline ;D

Quoted from Abdul19

It's win-win really. England win and lovely stuff. Spain win and I don't have to hear Sweet fucking Caroline ;D

Not a fan of the song either, but that playing out, along with Freed from Desire at Brighton, and Town fans just running with it (the speakers were so loud there wasn’t much choice) was a really special moment and one that will stay with me a long time.

https://youtu.be/8im09J8nYXA?si=pQnHGeX90r_jrF-O

Quoted from Abdul19

It's win-win really. England win and lovely stuff. Spain win and I don't have to hear Sweet fucking Caroline ;D

Agree but we’ll have to put up with people giving the manager stick.

Quoted from Rick12

My personal opinion on him watching him play from this tournament is he's a grafter and whilst not being as good as previous right/left backs from Spanish players in years gone eg Jordi Alba is a player I've come to like.

To be fair to Cucurella, he finished the season well at Chelsea (*spit*).

It’s somewhat symptomatic of the dearth in LBs at the moment but Cucurella and Kadioğlu have easily been the best LBs at the tournament.

He’s certainly from the Jordi Alba school of being a whiny, cheating, diving, patatas bravas of a thunderclapnewman though. I’m not convinced he was getting booed in the SF because of the handball, I think it was due to the number of times against Germany he went down, rolling around with a non-existent head injury.

I have a feeling either England or Spain will blow their opponent apart in the first-half tonight. I just don’t know which will do it.

If England are 1-0 down after 70 mins and Lamal and Williams have run their course, I don’t think it will be the end of the world.

That Spain defence is pretty poor. Despite my comment above on Cucurella, Saka should be able to get at him. Same with Carvajal. Laporte is a wet lettuce and Nacho or Le Normand aren’t great either. To top it off, Unai Simon is an accident waiting to happen.

Esta volviendo a casa

I've just realised... and I don't want to jinx anything BUT...
I was born in August 1957 which makes me 66. Mrs B was born in 66 and the last time we won a major tournament was, errrrr.... 66!
Is it an omen or just the work of the devil?
666 666 Yikes! 😂

Alcaraz beats Djokovic in straight sets to win Wimbledon. That’s Spain’s quota of sporting victories used up for the day.

Quoted from Knut Anders Fosters Voles

To top it off, Unai Simon is an accident waiting to happen.

Esta volviendo a casa

Tend to agree with you on Simon; has had some nervy moments this Euro. Certainly Pickford has breeded more confidence this tournament.

Pero en Yamal tienen un poco de magico,su gol contra Francia era asombroso 👌

Last minute decision to go watch in London with a few mates here. Quick hop onto the Central Line from Bethnal Green to Trafalgar Square if England win.

I reckon we're gonna do it.

If we can perform like the first half against the Netherlands and the midfielders and fullbacks all have a minimum of 8.5/10 performances I think we’ve got a great chance of winning it. Come on England!

Quoted from Knut Anders Fosters Voles

If England are 1-0 down after 70 mins and Lamal and Williams have run their course, I don’t think it will be the end of the world.

Not sure I agree with that mate, Spain look like a hideous team to be 1-0 down against. I'd be happy with 0-0 on 70 mins, I'm not sure us taking the lead early will be a good thing. England to score in the last 20 to go 1-0 up, Spain to then come at us and we counter and win it 2-0.

Obviously, I hope I'm wrong, but I think that Spain may dominate the final against England, possibly winning 2-3 nil. I don't think we have faced a team near Spain's standard in this tournament.

In theory, Spain’s style could play to our strengths. Their approach might leave us certain opportunities to counter. However, I expect we'll end up defending deep, pressed back early by Spain's control of the ball. This will probably see us relying heavily on our defence and hoping that our key players can pull off some game-changing moments.

Spain's clever movement and tactical coordination are always difficult to manage. To counter this, we really need to disrupt their rhythm by pressing effectively in midfield—giving Rodri too much space could be disastrous. We also need to closely guard the flanks, where Spain often finds ways to undo the opposition, especially with midefielder players like Olmo who has exceled at making late runs to get on the end passes played from the flanks.

One possible weak point for Spain could be Cucurella. Saka had a lot of success against him during Arsenal’s 5-0 win over Chelsea in April, and he could be a provide an attacking threat for us.

In the end though I think Spain will have too much for us.

Never wanted to be more wrong.

Spain are going into this as favourites. As Town fans , surely we like that. A lot of media has tried to create a siege mentality by saying that everyone hates us. It turns out, that's not the case. Even many Scots want us to win or don't care either way. This game could go either way. I think it's gonna come down to a pivotal moment. A rush of blood to the head, that produces a pen or a piece of individual magic. . Either way, I've got my 2015 Town shirt that saw us through the three play off games. - superstitious idiot or what?

@ Morrisons big screen. Filling up nicely now. The beer is going down. The anthems are playing. This feels MASSIVE. I'm nervous. I'm excited. I'm scared. Above all I'm fuc***g LOVING IT. COME ON INGERLUND...

You’d think after supporting Town especially though various play off campaigns tonight’s game would be easy on the nerves.

Like f**k it is, I’m as nervous as hell, there’s so many reasons why we can do this and so many reasons why we could get humbled.

My penalties play list is ready just in case I have to sit down in a dark room as there’s no way I’ll be able to handle that.

Quoted from Son of Cod

Not sure I agree with that mate, Spain look like a hideous team to be 1-0 down against. I'd be happy with 0-0 on 70 mins, I'm not sure us taking the lead early will be a good thing. England to score in the last 20 to go 1-0 up, Spain to then come at us and we counter and win it 2-0.

I’m thinking more like Town at home to Luton, with the whole of the second half defending on a line from about level with our 6 yard box and Pickford having terrible cramp…

Quoted from Poojah

Alcaraz beats Djokovic in straight sets to win Wimbledon. That’s Spain’s quota of sporting victories used up for the day.

He's good him isn't he , blew Djokovic off the court .

No stanchions to block the view. Whatever next?

Kane looks as nervous as I do the morning after drunkenly posting on the Fishy at 3am.

Time to be brave. Kane needs to come off and give us more pace and mobility. Then we've got a great chance I think.

Quoted from Knut Anders Fosters Voles

I have a feeling either England or Spain will blow their opponent apart in the first-half tonight. I just don’t know which will do it.

If England are 1-0 down after 70 mins and Lamal and Williams have run their course, I don’t think it will be the end of the world.

That Spain defence is pretty poor. Despite my comment above on Cucurella, Saka should be able to get at him. Same with Carvajal. Laporte is a wet lettuce and Nacho or Le Normand aren’t great either. To top it off, Unai Simon is an accident waiting to happen.

Esta volviendo a casa

Told you!! 😊

Quoted from Badger57

Time to be brave. Kane needs to come off and give us more pace and mobility. Then we've got a great chance I think.

Hurst and the Shop springs to mind . . . (unsure)

Our bench is going to win it for us, if we are going to do it.

Quoted from Knut Anders Fosters Voles

Told you!! 😊

When you win the lottery please buy some green seats for the corners
Thanks in advance ☺️

Was always going to be a boxing match this. Stay in the game and we have energy and depth off the bench to help us in the later stages.

First half not too bad, all told. Foden a bit anonymous much of the time, but nobody having a bad game. I do think we've wasted a few half-chances to break. Bellingham keeps on going, but he looks absolutely shafted after a long season.

Kane is killing us, not mobile enough to press and when he gets it he loses it. One of the best 9’s in the world but it’s clear he’s carrying something, needs to take himself off and get Watkins on

Shaw for Trippier Southgate did half the bleeding obvious now needs to do the other half Watkin’s for Kane and stretch

Got to change things now (Kane) or it's all over.

This is it.... come on!

Spain are technically better than us tonight, in my opinion.

Quoted from Ruuger

Spain are technically better than us tonight, in my opinion.

They’re technically better than us every night.

Yeah Spain look comfortable but you never knowc

Sort it out Southgates

That was brilliant from Pickford getting us going quick and some great stuff after that.

Omg! Goalllllllllll! Sexy football! (100)

Quoted from Nelly GTFC

Omg! Goalllllllllll! Sexy football! (100)

I must be watching it 3 mins behind you. We’ve only just equalised where I am. ❤️🍺🍺🍺🍺

Once again Walker nowhere to be seen.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Once again Walker nowhere to be seen.

Exactly, excrement defending again.

No arguments. Best team won. We weren't really at the races to be fair. Scored a great equaliser though.

Roundly beaten by a team that make it look so easy they pass the ball into the net. Where would these overpriced England players be without being surrounded by these European and South American playmakers that make the game happen. People got excited after they fumbled their way through against mediocre teams, as soon as they came up against a real team in the final they got found out. It's depressing that the Spain squad probably earns half as much as the England squad does at their respective clubs.

Outclassed, outshined, too little and too late again. We'll be back in a couple of years talking up how we'll surely win this time.

Can't complain but we at least were 4 minutes away from extra time in the final. Most people expected us to go home much earlier.

Quoted from Kris2

Roundly beaten by a team that make it look so easy they pass the ball into the net. Where would these overpriced England players be without being surrounded by these European and South American playmakers that make the game happen. People got excited after they fumbled their way through against mediocre teams, as soon as they came up against a real team in the final they got found out. It's depressing that the Spain squad probably earns half as much as the England squad does at their respective clubs.

Outclassed, outshined, too little and too late again. We'll be back in a couple of years talking up how we'll surely win this time.

Maybe you’ll just say the best team won the tournament when you’ve calmed down.

excrement defending by Guehi for the winner. Just let the man go - he was the only Spanish player in the box.

Ultimately, we aren't good enough to retain possession in midfield when under a bit of pressure. If you cough it up endlessly as we have done all tournament, you've got no chance against the best teams. We've had a few decent halves of football in the whole tournament, which is very telling.

Already passed the defeat. 🎶 3 Fish on a shirt 🎶 Come on Grimsby Town! 🎶 Dadi will be on fire . . . 🎶 Lets go!

Cucerella played better than I thought he would tbf , the game was won and lost between him , Saka and us switching off just after half time imo . We let it get frantic and it suited them far more than us . Pickford pulled off a class save and a couple of regulation one's and I can't remember their keeper having much to do apart from picking the ball out of the net once .

Hard to take that - I felt we’d have won it had it gone to extra time. Made slightly easier to accept by the fact that Spain deserved it, not only on the basis of tonight but throughout the whole tournament.

Whatever Southgate decides to do now is his prerogative, but he deserves huge credit for what he’s done over these past four tournaments. That shouldn’t be forgotten.

The best team won.

Better team got the result but gutted we couldn’t at least steal it!
Not so painful this time around as we deserved it last time,
Well done to the whole squad and manager .
We are a country who is now taken seriously. Bring on the World Cup. 2026

Spain stepped it up and scored when they had too . Far better team and deserved to win the tournament. We looked miles off . It was like watching Man City v Burnley most the game . I don’t blame Southgate at all he’s done wonders but these players are no where near as good as they think they are

We gave it a go for 15 mins, but beaten by a far better team

Quoted from It Bites

Spain stepped it up and scored when they had too . Far better team and deserved to win the tournament. We looked miles off . It was like watching Man City v Burnley most the game . I don’t blame Southgate at all he’s done wonders but these players are no where near as good as they think they are

You mean as “we” or at least the media think they are?

Felt calmer after they scored weirdly. Fully expected us to get an equaliser and then use the momentum to kick on. Sadly Spain too good for that. Better team won and as I'm still not over losing the semi to Germany at Italia 90 don't think I'll be thinking too much about this tomorrow

Quoted from Poojah

Hard to take that - I felt we’d have won it had it gone to extra time. Made slightly easier to accept by the fact that Spain deserved it, not only on the basis of tonight but throughout the whole tournament.

Whatever Southgate decides to do now is his prerogative, but he deserves huge credit for what he’s done over these past four tournaments. That shouldn’t be forgotten.

The best team won.

Southgate needs to go! He’s had the best set of England players ever available, and we get one good 1st half performance all tournament, we were lucky to get to the final, 2nd best team in most of the games.

The first goal is Kane’s unwillingness or inability to press their defender and the ball being able to be moved wide and then forward relatively unchallenged. We take him off, improve, score and then don’t build on it. Kane will be finished before the next Euros and maybe before the next World Cup. The bit part players deserved far more chances than they got. Spain were great though all the way through and worthy champions but another final where we could have done more.

Quoted from Balthazar Bullitt

Felt calmer after they scored weirdly. Fully expected us to get an equaliser and then use the momentum to kick on. Sadly Spain too good for that. Better team won and as I'm still not over losing the semi to Germany at Italia 90 don't think I'll be thinking too much about this tomorrow

Same , that and Euro 96 were my deepest dissapointments as a teen - don't seem to take it quite as bad now with England .

Quoted from Humbercod

Southgate needs to go! He’s had the best set of England players ever available, and we get one good 1st half performance all tournament, we was lucky to get to the final, 2nd best team in most of the games.

Not the time for that debate, I would suggest. At least wait until the morning.

Last time England lost a final we then got promoted in the following season. So……..

First things first, the best team IN the tournament WON the tournament.

We had as many quality/world class players on the pitch as Spain but until we have a manager who is able to coach the players in the pressing/one touch football played by the Spanish we will remain perennial underachievers !

Thanks Gareth, for the memories but now its time to go and hand over to someone who knows what they are doing.

Guardiola/Klopp anyone ???????

I hope for his own sake he walks, as much as I hate him i’d love to see what Klopp could do with this side. I think it’ll be one of Lee Carsley or Graham Potter to replace him however

Best Team won. Spain have won 7 from 7.

despite some on here trying to downplay what they’d done.

They lost Pedri, they lost Rodri

They deserve it.

Not sure Klopp is suited to international management myself. You can’t build the intensity his sides have in a week of training every other month.

Quoted from LH

Not sure Klopp is suited to international management myself. You can’t build the intensity his sides have in a week of training every other month.

I'm sure you can still moan about fixture congestion though

Should give it to Shearer. He seems to have all the answers with tactical insights like 'show them less respect' and 'get into them a bit more'. Mad to think Newcastle went down with that kind of modern, cerebral approach to management.

Spain tried to win , we just tried not to lose . Best team won

Better team won but still disappointed in how we played.

If Southgate does go I hope we get the right man to take us forward.

Who that is I have no idea whoever it is I hope plays to our strengths and not too defensive .

Spain had players free all the time but never gave us the room like we allowed them.

Quoted from Hagrid

Best Team won. Spain have won 7 from 7.

They lost Pedri, they lost Rodri

They deserve it.

And Gavi was out as well.

We could have conceded a lot more goals.

The Spanish press suffocated us.

Good job Rodri went off otherwise we might have been in trouble.

Spain have had most possession for something like 120 consecutive matches. This means the opposition have less time to score.

We have a number of excellent young players for the future.

Kane, Bellingham and Foden players of the year in 3 top footballing countries. All forward players.  All playing for top countries.

They had to give 100% to their clubs.  All very tired generally in this tournament. All 3 well well below their best.

This has made a big difference to our play.  Kane in particular, did not warrant his starting place.  Or subbed earlier.

Spain so good though.  Better than all the other teams as well.

Southgate has to take the criticism on this one. He’s taken it all tournament and at each point in time it’s in a way been warranted. When you look back retrospectively you could argue he’s got us to the final with either the patience and ballsiness to see Bellingham clutch it at 94 against Slovakia, or with the changes against Netherlands that saw us pick up the second of only two wins in 7 over 90 minutes in the tournament.

In this one, the narrative was true, Spain the better team, took the lead and we needed to chase. He made some changes, we built momentum, got the goal and maintained some momentum for a few minutes afterwards and then out of nowhere we reverted back to the safe, pragmatic football that allowed Spain to retain their control on the game. That shift back to the status quo effectively gifted them the game and it was there for all to see that Spain were going to get a second.

Its a mute argument as to whether we maintain the dominance once we had it and go on to win, they could easily win on a break but id rather that than the meek, boring and lifeless end we were given.

Every team needs to balance up their defence and attack and the more football evolves the more that becomes an art form in itself, but when our best individuals are attacking players just let them go and do. Stop restricting them, play with freedom and some pace and let our attack be a genuine first line of defence, not a ‘we’ll slow your pace down but still allow you to progress the ball into our half and keep it there’.

I’ll maintain respect for Southgate for how he’s progressed our game beyond the expectation of last 16 misery tournament after tournament but the quality of player we have available requires the next level of manager and one who will trust and have faith that we’ll simply out score the opposition and play on the front foot so to speak, rather than establish a mindset that we mustn’t concede else we’ll lose the game.

Quoted from gtfc_chris

Southgate has to take the criticism on this one. He’s taken it all tournament and at each point in time it’s in a way been warranted. When you look back retrospectively you could argue he’s got us to the final with either the patience and ballsiness to see Bellingham clutch it at 94 against Slovakia, or with the changes against Netherlands that saw us pick up the second of only two wins in 7 over 90 minutes in the tournament.

In this one, the narrative was true, Spain the better team, took the lead and we needed to chase. He made some changes, we built momentum, got the goal and maintained some momentum for a few minutes afterwards and then out of nowhere we reverted back to the safe, pragmatic football that allowed Spain to retain their control on the game. That shift back to the status quo effectively gifted them the game and it was there for all to see that Spain were going to get a second.

Its a mute argument as to whether we maintain the dominance once we had it and go on to win, they could easily win on a break but id rather that than the meek, boring and lifeless end we were given.

Every team needs to balance up their defence and attack and the more football evolves the more that becomes an art form in itself, but when our best individuals are attacking players just let them go and do. Stop restricting them, play with freedom and some pace and let our attack be a genuine first line of defence, not a ‘we’ll slow your pace down but still allow you to progress the ball into our half and keep it there’.

I’ll maintain respect for Southgate for how he’s progressed our game beyond the expectation of last 16 misery tournament after tournament but the quality of player we have available requires the next level of manager and one who will trust and have faith that we’ll simply out score the opposition and play on the front foot so to speak, rather than establish a mindset that we mustn’t concede else we’ll lose the game.

To be honest I’m not sure what Southgate could do about Bellingham not being able to pass a ball 5 yards tonight, Walker over hitting a cross when he’s under zero pressure or Kane looking like he got his first touch from the celebrity team in soccer aid etc.. etc..

I think at times some of the criticism has been warranted over the years but tonight too many players where out played by a better team.

The interesting thing is that who comes in now? Gareth will go but replacing someone who is now an experienced manager & the architect of an environment where players with big egos seem to unite will not be easy.

After a little reflection, a few more thoughts (which mostly follow on from my post a few minutes ago).

Mainoo is still only young and inexperienced, but is the sort of player we need to develop in midfield if we're ever going to become real contenders. I reckon that a midfield pairing of Mainoo and Bellingham would be very good in this regard (remember back when Bellingham was a central midfielder?), but I'm not sure his ego would allow him to play this role now. Ultimately, we've got to realise that the likes of Gallagher can't really be playing much of a role if we want to improve in the future. Rice is a good player but he's not technically good enough to be a really top quality international midfielder. I didn't really watch the game with Wharton playing so can't say from what I've seen myself, but some on this forum mentioned he might be one for the future? Able to retain possession as well as capable of the defensive stuff?

If we get a midfield capable of matching those of the best teams, Foden will perhaps be able to show his ability a bit more. He's generally been disappointing during his England career and, the odd flash of skill aside, he's done very little this tournament. He's a better player (unsurprisingly) in front of a dominant midfield at Man City, but is mostly ineffective for England. One goal every ten games for an attacking midfielder/forward as he's managed for England really isn't good enough, especially in a team which is nominally one of the top ten in the world.

The defence were OK this tournament and we were notably better with the balance of Shaw on the left during that first half today. Unfortunately, he's no youngster now, struggles with fitness and we really need another left-sided full-back/wing-back. No idea if any such player is coming through. Walker probably OK for another tournament as long as you accept his limitations with the ball at his feet. Is there a replacement coming through? TAA is not an international quality full-back/wing-back at present, so we can rule him out. I can't really think of many other full-backs in the country who look anywhere near ready to play for England.

Guehi played well in general and I'll blame fatigue for his failure to follow the runner for their winner today. They defence had to do a heck of a lot of running because the midfield coughed the ball up endlessly so no surprise they were so tired near the end. Konsa played well when called upon and Stones is still a good player so central defence is one area where we look to be in reasonable shape at the moment.

Up front, Kane has been getting a hammering from some people, mostly undeserved in my view. In recent years, he's not a player who will run up and down the channels as he did when he was younger, but he's the only top-quality striker we've got at present. He was also the most lethal striker in the top European leagues last season. The difference is that Bayern didn't play him as a lone forward who was incredibly isolated with no pace around him. We also hardly got the ball into the box this tournament. The stats for touches in the opposition box by each team would be embarrassing to see tonight because we barely got anywhere near them and the same was true throughout the tournament.

Watkins is an honest enough player who has a goal in him now and again (including excellent strikes like the one against Holland), but the stats don't lie. He's 28 years old and last season was the only time he's ever got near Kane's goals/minute ratio. He's never going to score a lot of goals in tournament football, though he'd probably get a few in the qualifiers. Ivan Toney is another 28 year old who is a decent enough player and coming off the back of a couple of decent seasons, but he's not a top-quality international striker. Same goes for Rashford who has always blowed hot and cold. Ultimately, we don't have a bright future ahead once Kane retires. Let's not get rid of him for not being the player we know he's not. Let's play in a manner which creates the opportunities for him to score.

Pickford has done a good job for England, but I don't think he's big enough for the modern game. Lots of his flaps and punches clear today would have been easily caught by a taller man and his much-vaunted passing let him down today. That said, I'm not sure anybody else is better than him at present. I still think we need better.

That just leaves us with Southgate. No doubt he's done a really good job the the hand he was initially dealt and got us back on our feet after we were in such a shambles when he took over. However, in spite of getting some good results thanks to individual play, we've gone backwards this tournament. Let's face it, we were pretty poor for much of the group stage and were generally outplayed in all the knock-out stages, relying on moments of individual brilliance to progress. I think it is time for him to move on. The way we are playing at the moment is mostly turgid, slow passing and lacking in bravery. Too many panicky whacked clearances yet again tonight.

So, farewell Gareth. Thanks for your efforts and good luck for the future. Not sure who will offer you a job, but I'm sure you'll be OK.

For the next manager, I'd have the best coach available, whoever that might be. I don't care what country they are originally from, just what they can do in the role. I don't think that man is Eddie Howe, incidentally.

I won’t disagree about players and individuals and mistakes on the pitch, it’s been a frustration all tournament. But it’s the mindset that has been hampering us throughout as a trend.

I like analogies so I thought of one. It’s already been mentioned Southgate is the Paul Hurst of international football. I subscribe to that idea. England are like Grimsby pre and during PH.

Grimsby plummeting through the divisions towards non league is akin to England always underachieving at the major finals. It’s not a complete parallel but nor is international to club football.

For Grimsby, step forward Paul Hurst. He takes hold of a club and turns the tide and starts a series of progressions. There are failures along the way and it isn’t always pretty on the eye but eventually he gets the job done.

For England, step forward Southgate, who has taken England and turned the tide in falling by the wayside in the group stages or round of 16 and turned us into finalists, semi finalists and we as a nation have a reason to be more optimistic and expectant.

But as with PH, Southgtes pragmatism soon bursts when teams know that simply having some intent towards goal will at the very least mean they don’t lose. You begin a negative cycle, the more a team attacks, the more you retreat and the less you commit forward.

Again, they’re not direct parallels. Any club manager has to navigate an entire season on a budget that has limitations on who they can bring in talent wise (in majority of cases) and so pragmatism may have more benefit over that duration.

Southgate has the pick of Englands finest and we have some. Other nations do too and we don’t have an inherent right to believe we should simply win the Euros or World Cup. But we do have the right ti believe that what we see in our games is a team with the belief and confidence that they can beat the opposition. It won’t happen that way every game but I want to see us play with that degree of belief.

Every game this tournament has been turgid, slow and lacking in quality. The Netherlands game was the closest we’ve come and it wasnt bad but I’m not so sure we can call it good. Definitely not excellent even if Watkins’ moment was a great one.

We’ve heard commentators and fans call it a tournament of moments, but every game is like that. If England had more moments then I’d be less critical and more on Southgate’s side n my balanced view. He still has my respect and praise for historic decisions and outlooks that have laid a foundation for future England sides but this tournament has shown him to have adversely affected his team and even the friendlies in the build up showed that.

For me, we’ve got to move forward believing that we’re capable of beating the opposition with our attacking talent, not with our defensive one. When Grimsby play and lose that way you try to seek rationality in that in a long season pragmatism will endure. In a 7 game tournament just go for it, trust your attacking players and go out or all the way with a bang and not a whimper.

Quoted from Maringer

After a little reflection, a few more thoughts (which mostly follow on from my post a few minutes ago).

Mainoo is still only young and inexperienced, but is the sort of player we need to develop in midfield if we're ever going to become real contenders. I reckon that a midfield pairing of Mainoo and Bellingham would be very good in this regard (remember back when Bellingham was a central midfielder?), but I'm not sure his ego would allow him to play this role now. Ultimately, we've got to realise that the likes of Gallagher can't really be playing much of a role if we want to improve in the future. Rice is a good player but he's not technically good enough to be a really top quality international midfielder. I didn't really watch the game with Wharton playing so can't say from what I've seen myself, but some on this forum mentioned he might be one for the future? Able to retain possession as well as capable of the defensive stuff?

If we get a midfield capable of matching those of the best teams, Foden will perhaps be able to show his ability a bit more. He's generally been disappointing during his England career and, the odd flash of skill aside, he's done very little this tournament. He's a better player (unsurprisingly) in front of a dominant midfield at Man City, but is mostly ineffective for England. One goal every ten games for an attacking midfielder/forward as he's managed for England really isn't good enough, especially in a team which is nominally one of the top ten in the world.

The defence were OK this tournament and we were notably better with the balance of Shaw on the left during that first half today. Unfortunately, he's no youngster now, struggles with fitness and we really need another left-sided full-back/wing-back. No idea if any such player is coming through. Walker probably OK for another tournament as long as you accept his limitations with the ball at his feet. Is there a replacement coming through? TAA is not an international quality full-back/wing-back at present, so we can rule him out. I can't really think of many other full-backs in the country who look anywhere near ready to play for England.

Guehi played well in general and I'll blame fatigue for his failure to follow the runner for their winner today. They defence had to do a heck of a lot of running because the midfield coughed the ball up endlessly so no surprise they were so tired near the end. Konsa played well when called upon and Stones is still a good player so central defence is one area where we look to be in reasonable shape at the moment.

Up front, Kane has been getting a hammering from some people, mostly undeserved in my view. In recent years, he's not a player who will run up and down the channels as he did when he was younger, but he's the only top-quality striker we've got at present. He was also the most lethal striker in the top European leagues last season. The difference is that Bayern didn't play him as a lone forward who was incredibly isolated with no pace around him. We also hardly got the ball into the box this tournament. The stats for touches in the opposition box by each team would be embarrassing to see tonight because we barely got anywhere near them and the same was true throughout the tournament.

Watkins is an honest enough player who has a goal in him now and again (including excellent strikes like the one against Holland), but the stats don't lie. He's 28 years old and last season was the only time he's ever got near Kane's goals/minute ratio. He's never going to score a lot of goals in tournament football, though he'd probably get a few in the qualifiers. Ivan Toney is another 28 year old who is a decent enough player and coming off the back of a couple of decent seasons, but he's not a top-quality international striker. Same goes for Rashford who has always blowed hot and cold. Ultimately, we don't have a bright future ahead once Kane retires. Let's not get rid of him for not being the player we know he's not. Let's play in a manner which creates the opportunities for him to score.

Pickford has done a good job for England, but I don't think he's big enough for the modern game. Lots of his flaps and punches clear today would have been easily caught by a taller man and his much-vaunted passing let him down today. That said, I'm not sure anybody else is better than him at present. I still think we need better.

That just leaves us with Southgate. No doubt he's done a really good job the the hand he was initially dealt and got us back on our feet after we were in such a shambles when he took over. However, in spite of getting some good results thanks to individual play, we've gone backwards this tournament. Let's face it, we were pretty poor for much of the group stage and were generally outplayed in all the knock-out stages, relying on moments of individual brilliance to progress. I think it is time for him to move on. The way we are playing at the moment is mostly turgid, slow passing and lacking in bravery. Too many panicky whacked clearances yet again tonight.

So, farewell Gareth. Thanks for your efforts and good luck for the future. Not sure who will offer you a job, but I'm sure you'll be OK.

For the next manager, I'd have the best coach available, whoever that might be. I don't care what country they are originally from, just what they can do in the role. I don't think that man is Eddie Howe, incidentally.

I can't believe anyone would want Walker anywhere near the England team after his performance tonight, he was fast asleep for their two goals giving their wingers acres of space, Shaw was ok first half but then he kept getting caught out not covering the winger.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

To be honest I’m not sure what Southgate could do about Bellingham not being able to pass a ball 5 yards tonight, Walker over hitting a cross when he’s under zero pressure or Kane looking like he got his first touch from the celebrity team in soccer aid etc.. etc..

I think at times some of the criticism has been warranted over the years but tonight too many players where out played by a better team.

The interesting thing is that who comes in now? Gareth will go but replacing someone who is now an experienced manager & the architect of an environment where players with big egos seem to unite will not be easy.

You can say I'm too critical of Southgate but this is far too apologetic. Tonight wasn't decided on individual mistakes, it was won by a team compared to 11 players who have largely ground their way through the tournament through individual moments rather than any tactical quality. Even tonight, the substitutions weren't borne out of any tactical nous. They never changed the overall tactical narrative of the game. It was Southgate throwing on high-quality individuals in the hope one would come up with a moment of quality. Palmer came up with that moment of inspiration, so Southgate will inevitably be given some leeway, but the reality is he was schooled by a much better manager.

I'm not taking away from what Southgate has achieved as England manager. He's changed the atmosphere around the England team but it's clear that he has limitations that are hampering what is a world class squad. And yes, I know we've had world class squads in the past that have failed, but constantly judging against past failures isn't going to bring success.

Quoted from grimsby pete

Better team won but still disappointed in how we played.

If Southgate does go I hope we get the right man to take us forward.

Who that is I have no idea whoever it is I hope plays to our strengths and not too defensive .

Spain had players free all the time but never gave us the room like we allowed them.

It's a case of be careful what you wish for though isn't it ?

I remember when everyone wanted Keegan as the gaffer because of his style but it just didn't work and we didn't fair well .

Although I'm not a massive Southgate fan , he does seem to be a specialist at taking us deep into tournaments and maintaining an interest at the business end which before him was not the case .

Quoted from It Bites

Spain stepped it up and scored when they had too .

There was some heart-warming stories in the press yesterday where the children of immigrants have changed the narrative in Spain. Lamine Yamal was named after the people that helped his Moroccan parents establish themselves in Spain and Nico Williams parents crossed the Sahara desert and scaled the wall at Melilla to get into Spain. Its uplifting when you hear storys like these where family's come through adversity and there is happy ending in their children helping Spain become champions again of Europe for a record fourth time .It reminds me of what happened to France in 1998 when a mixed bunch of ethnicities/colours galvanised together and brought France their first World Cup. Interestingly as well the demographics of Spain is changing where due to the low birth rate since the death of Franco in 1975( Spain had one of the highest birth rates up until then) materialism took over and people started prioritising career and money over children sadly.

Going forward from the present day analysts project that 1 in 3 will be foreign-born in Spain in 30 years as the government needs new people to prop up industries and help support an ageing society. As someone who is interested in Hispanic affairs due to my language job I feel this can only be a good thing. Pope Francis sums it for me when he says health,job and family are the most important things in this life.

Quoted from arryarryarry

I can't believe anyone would want Walker anywhere near the England team after his performance tonight, he was fast asleep for their two goals giving their wingers acres of space, Shaw was ok first half but then he kept getting caught out not covering the winger.

I think that was as much down to the formation we were playing as anything. Walker was a lot better last night than he has been most of the tournament.

First goal was nothing to do with him. Mainoo didn't bother to follow the midfielder running through the middle so Walker had to come across to cover and that led to the gap for Williams to score. Walker was caught out of position for the winner, but a simple pass through midfield took out three players and they had as much time as they wanted to pass through us. They had 2 men forward against about 6 defenders and Guehi didn't do his job, letting the scorer run through to slide home unchallenged. It wasn't anything particularly brilliant from the Spanish (good cross, though), just lax defending from a lot of tired players. On the other hand, Spain didn't let up and defended solidly throughout, though obviously this wasn't required as much from them as for us because we spent so much of the game under the cosh.

If you're going to try and play rope a dope, you've got to be fit enough to keep defending throughout and we were just too lax last night. Perhaps if Konsa had been brought on to freshen things up, we might have done better in that moment? Spain weren't worried about swapping their defenders, were they and it certainly showed.

In simple terms, we wasted a golden opportunity.

For whatever reasons, Bellingham and Kane were off it throughout the tournament and the manager did fk all about it. We set out to not lose (Hurst style) most games and came up short because we didn't show enough intent to win.

Plenty to be optimistic about but again we fall short and this is possibly the most frustrating.

I posted before the game that the midfield and full/wing backs all needed to perform well individually. Luke Shaw won his battle vs Yamal for most of the night and was by far England’s MOTM. Walker didn’t win his against Williams who was excellent all night. All four of our midfielders were abysmal so we had no chance.

Quoted from Mariner93er

You can say I'm too critical of Southgate but this is far too apologetic. Tonight wasn't decided on individual mistakes, it was won by a team compared to 11 players who have largely ground their way through the tournament through individual moments rather than any tactical quality.

This is exactly right. If you hadn't seen any of the tournament and just watched a brief highlights package featuring the goals, you'd think we had played really well on the way to the Final. Brilliance from Bellingham, Saka, Watkins and Palmer to score their goals (though the last was also a really good team goal), but you'd struggle to show a highlights package from England where we looked anything like scoring even one or two good team goals, and that's from seven games including extra-time. Top much hit and hope, too much waiting for somebody to do something brilliant. 8 goals from 7 games (including matches against several teams way below us I'm the rankings) isn't the return of champions.

One final point is that a lot of our players have looked knackered even since the start of the tournament. Lots of games played by too many of the players for their clubs this season and our lack of strength in depth meant that we had little choice but to keep playing them. Spain could rotate throughout the competition without weakening themselves greatly and looked much fresher than us for most of the Final.

I know this is an unpopular opinion on here but there is only one man holding England back.
Southgate is obviously a good and likeable chap with honesty and integrity however, it is blatantly obvious (to me anyway) that he’s sadly lacking when it matters.
Our football has been prehistoric and hoofing a ball and feeding off seconds is not winning a tournament (and thank Christ for that).

Last night was another example of us being out managed. Spain lost there lynch pin Rodri at half time so there manager responded by playing it long at the start of second half which brought immediate dividends. In same circumstances we would be in crisis .
We then take 15 minutes to decide what to do before the most obvious substitution in history to stretch them . We score have a good spell but their manage responds with another tactical switch and we visibly go into must not lose it in normal time mind set around 83 minutes they push on and score with three vertical passes the full length of the pitch in seconds
Yes they are better then us but managers make a big difference particularly in the modern game were tactical changes in the second part of a game are so important.
Main criteria in selecting a new manager should be tactical awareness and flexibility which along with over caution has been Southgate’s failing since day 1.

Quoted from gtfc_chris

I won’t disagree about players and individuals and mistakes on the pitch, it’s been a frustration all tournament. But it’s the mindset that has been hampering us throughout as a trend.

Interesting what Jude Bellingham said in the post match though where club football differs to the International game. When you've been there and done it gives you a better idea of what it takes to get to the top .

As for fitness, Kane and Bellingham played in Germany and Spain, so they can't say it's because of playing in England. Same goes for some of the Spaniards, and other nationalities, that play in England.
I think that because we are being negative we have to chase more than say Spain who keep the ball and pick their moments better. That's why they look fitter than us.

Best team won.  It's that simple.

But the thing is I don't think Spain are all that.  The wingers are very exciting and clearly Rodri is a cut above in midfield.  Other than that they're nothing special at all.  You can only beat what's in front of you but I think it's a state of the current football environment if Spain are the standout.  I maintain that England should be better than what the Spanish offered, we just didn't go at them enough.

Part of that I felt was that we just looked copulated.  I don't know why that it is, but collectively we looked absolutely knackered for most of the tournament.  The one player who looked fresh was Mainoo, someone who missed most of the first half of the season with injury...  I don't buy into it that Kane or Bellingham aren't good enough (even anymore), both were standout performers in their respective leagues last season.

I completely understand why we did it. But I can't help think that we instantly set the tone by reverting back to a back 4 to counter Spain's wingers.  Attacking wise we just didn't seem to have as much about us as we did against the Dutch when we used wingbacks.  Sure, Spain are better than the Dutch but far from invincible at the back and to a slicker style of passing.  Our goal showed how they could easily be hurt but we didn't do it enough.

Very disappointed last night but more reflective this morning.  Still feels like an opportunity wasted rather than anything else though.

Let’s face it, but for some individual moments we were mostly shite from start to finish in this tournament and didn’t deserve to win it.

We’ve sat too deep, failed to utilise an embarrassment of riches in the attacking areas and yet again fallen short against the first decent side we’ve played.

It’s the same story every tournament and there’s no way anybody can tell me that Southgate has done anything other than got us to these semis & finals by simply beating sides he should’ve been beating. The moment he’s asked serious questions we fall at that hurdle every single time.

The fact we’ve had so much ‘success’ has been great, but the context behind it tells a very different story.

That’s 22 consecutive finals involving Spanish club and international sides that they have won, ten against English opposition. Bit hard to swallow the hype we are always given about the Prem being the best league in the world.

Last night the best team won and if anything the score flattered us.

Spain showed how to play. Movement at speed with accurate passing. The walking football that has helped us grind our narrow victories in the tournament was never really going to break Spain down often enough.

That said, Rice should have scored at the end. A one hundred million pound player really should be able to find the net with a free header seven yards out.

I don't think you can aim this solely at the players as some on here have tried to do. It is the approach from the manager that has caused the issues.

Lets look at the facts Kane European Golden boot winner. Bellingham player of the year in Germany 2022/23 followed by player of the year in Spain 2023/24. Foden player of the year in England. Saka one of the best attacking players in the world, Rice an outstanding first season with Arsenal but not as a sitting DM.

All these players were playing in attacking teams. It suits their games.

However, Southgate plays very negative football, playing much too deep and often isolating Kane and leaving just moments for the other attacking players to feed off. Kane excels at having runners around him with the ball played to his feet not launched at him as England did time and time again.

All those players I've mentioned, who have been criticised on here for not being as good as they think they are, not being technically good enough just doesn't look at the evidence. These players have been amongst the best in Europe.

The difference is when asked to play for England they are asked to play a very different game.

That I'm afraid is down to the manager.

England should have won a tournament in the last 10 years .The reason they haven't is the negative Manager. He doesn't have a winning mentality and tactically he's been found wanting when it matters If I had the chance I'd get Klopp in .

Quoted from 1mickylyons

England should have won a tournament in the last 10 years .The reason they haven't is the negative Manager. He doesn't have a winning mentality and tactically he's been found wanting when it matters If I had the chance I'd get Klopp in .

I'd be livid if they appointed that unbearable whinging sharp object

Quoted from Hagrid

I'd be livid if they appointed that unbearable whinging sharp object

Trent would be happy.

Admin.....

......please can you rename this thread "Why I should br the next England manager".

;D ;D ;D

I didn’t think Spain were that good. Key England players were terrible. Kane was a disgrace. Was he fit? Walker was dreadful. Saka not much better. The inky 3 starters who can take any credit for that game were Pickford, Stones & Guehi. The rest were a mix of disappointing and appalling.

Southgate must take a good chunk of the blame as how we set up was bizarre. Bellingham has been the best player in Europe this season and he was wasted out on the left side of midfield.

It’s time for a change. Pep has a year left on his City contract. He’s said he wants an international job next.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

I didn’t think Spain were that good. Key England players were terrible. Kane was a disgrace. Was he fit? Walker was dreadful. Saka not much better. The inky 3 starters who can take any credit for that game were Pickford, Stones & Guehi. The rest were a mix of disappointing and appalling.

Southgate must take a good chunk of the blame as how we set up was bizarre. Bellingham has been the best player in Europe this season and he was wasted out on the left side of midfield.

It’s time for a change. Pep has a year left on his City contract. He’s said he wants an international job next.

How can you possible think Spain wern't that good ffs

They absolutely dominated England, and before Palmer scored, it should have been 3-0 to Spain.
They've beaten Croatia, Italy, Germany, France and now England, they've won 7 games in a row- be fair they've been excellent.

Spain have been without the talented Gavi, they lost Pedri, they lost Rodri at half time yesterday.
The much maligned Cucurella has been outstanding, Olmo also.

Whilst England were disappointing throughout the tournament, I think your doing Spain a great disservice

Quoted from Hagrid

How can you possible think Spain wern't that good ffs

They absolutely dominated England, and before Palmer scored, it should have been 3-0 to Spain.
They've beaten Croatia, Italy, Germany, France and now England, they've won 7 games in a row- be fair they've been excellent.

Spain have been without the talented Gavi, they lost Pedri, they lost Rodri at half time yesterday.
The much maligned Cucurella has been outstanding, Olmo also.

Whilst England were disappointing throughout the tournament, I think your doing Spain a great disservice

To be honest with you Hagrid very impressed with Yamal (breaking Pele's record for the youngest to play in a major final) who arguably should have been given the player of the tournament ahead of Rodri. When he scored that goal in the semis against France it was one of them magical moments for me that sport encapsulates akin to when Fury got back up in the first Wilder fight and only(as in his words) being 50%.

Quoted from Hagrid

How can you possible think Spain wern't that good ffs

They absolutely dominated England, and before Palmer scored, it should have been 3-0 to Spain.
They've beaten Croatia, Italy, Germany, France and now England, they've won 7 games in a row- be fair they've been excellent.

Spain have been without the talented Gavi, they lost Pedri, they lost Rodri at half time yesterday.
The much maligned Cucurella has been outstanding, Olmo also.

Whilst England were disappointing throughout the tournament, I think your doing Spain a great disservice

I agree, Spain played very exciting football at a fast pace and their one touch passing and movement was excellent. They totally outplayed England.

Williams was better than Yamal, so definitely not the best player of the tournament, not even in his own team, but definitely the best young player. Mainoo a creditable mention as he did better than I expected, even if he didn't seem to have much more than 60 minutes in him.

The Spanish team isn't perhaps quite as metronimic in possession as their successful teams of the past couple of decades, but they are brave and eager to have a real go at the opposition teams, helped by the two pacy wingers who really look to be loving playing. Even right near the death last night, the Spanish forwards were still trying to play and create another chance. In similar circumstances, we'd have been lined up on the edge of our penalty area.

I reckon Southgate will go and I hope we'll turn into a 'braver' team as well.

Quoted from Maringer

Williams was better than Yamal, so definitely not the best player of the tournament, not even in his own team, but definitely the best young player. Mainoo a creditable mention as he did better than I expected, even if he didn't seem to have much more than 60 minutes in him.

The Spanish team isn't perhaps quite as metronimic in possession as their successful teams of the past couple of decades, but they are brave and eager to have a real go at the opposition teams, helped by the two pacy wingers who really look to be loving playing. Even right near the death last night, the Spanish forwards were still trying to play and create another chance. In similar circumstances, we'd have been lined up on the edge of our penalty area.

I genuinely felt prior to the game England may of edged it due to the tough ride La Roja had to the final beating Croatia,Italy, Germany and France . As someone who loves international football probably more so than even clubs I always remember what Vicente Del Bosque said" football mirrors life". Similarly hearing Rodri in interview winning Euro 2024 'best feeling of my life' or Harry Kane who would give all he has won in club football (individual I assume as well) for a national title with England .

Well if Southgate does go, and I think he's will, then I hope we appoint an English manager. I just find it totally unbelievable that we have one of the best top flight leagues, some really good young footballers, an excellent FA structure and some posters want to appoint a foreign manager. If Germany, Spain ,France, Netherlands and Italy can employ home developed managers then we should be able to.

Quoted from Hagrid

How can you possible think Spain wern't that good ffs

They absolutely dominated England, and before Palmer scored, it should have been 3-0 to Spain.
They've beaten Croatia, Italy, Germany, France and now England, they've won 7 games in a row- be fair they've been excellent.

Spain have been without the talented Gavi, they lost Pedri, they lost Rodri at half time yesterday.
The much maligned Cucurella has been outstanding, Olmo also.

Whilst England were disappointing throughout the tournament, I think your doing Spain a great disservice

I guess there's a difference in the best and actually being really good. It's purely hypothetical and irrelevant but I think in most other tournaments this Spain side wouldn't win it. I think that's what Golly means when he says they're not that good.

The standard of the teams in the tournament is pretty poor this time round, all in quite disappointing. There's no argument that Spain were the best, no-one could argue that. But I don't think they're great, just the best of a pretty mediocre bunch. Again, they can only beat what's in front of them.

Quoted from Rick12

I genuinely felt prior to the game England may of edged it due to the tough ride La Roja had to the final beating Croatia,Italy, Germany and France . As someone who loves international football probably more so than even clubs I always remember what Vicente Del Bosque said" football mirrors life". Similarly hearing Rodri in interview winning Euro 2024 'best feeling of my life' or Harry Kane who would give all he has won in club football (individual I assume as well) for a national title with England .

It must be individual as he's never won a trophy with club or country has he ?
Unless we count runners up medals

Quoted from Rick12

I genuinely felt prior to the game England may of edged it due to the tough ride La Roja had to the final beating Croatia,Italy, Germany and France . As someone who loves international football probably more so than even clubs I always remember what Vicente Del Bosque said" football mirrors life". Similarly hearing Rodri in interview winning Euro 2024 'best feeling of my life' or Harry Kane who would give all he has won in club football (individual I assume as well) for a national title with England .

Wouldn’t take much to give up nothing. The man is cursed.

Quoted from Mappers

It must be individual as he's never won a trophy with club or country has he ?

No trophy's, unless you count the prestige of the Audi Cup which he won playing for Spurs.

[IMG]https://talksport.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2019/07/NINTCHDBPICT000509784834-e1564513840263.jpg?w=620[/IMG]

It's not even a Zenith Data Systems Trophy but at least proves that Kane isn't alergic to cups and trophys.

Quoted from Hagrid

How can you possible think Spain wern't that good ffs

They absolutely dominated England, and before Palmer scored, it should have been 3-0 to Spain.
They've beaten Croatia, Italy, Germany, France and now England, they've won 7 games in a row- be fair they've been excellent.

Spain have been without the talented Gavi, they lost Pedri, they lost Rodri at half time yesterday.
The much maligned Cucurella has been outstanding, Olmo also.

Whilst England were disappointing throughout the tournament, I think your doing Spain a great disservice

The first half was a non-event. Spain scored early in the 2nd half and then managed the game well until they didn’t and we scored. Then after an iffy spell they improved again and won the game.

Spain didn’t need to get out of second gear in that game and they didn’t.

You’re being too kind to suggest Spain were too good for England. The truth is we will never know because England failed to turn up. Key, experienced players were making dreadful decisions, were making poor passes and not doing the basics.

And over the tournament Spain have been ruthless with taking their chances compared to their opponents- check xG and possession in their matches earlier in the tournament. To suggest they have been playing an incredible brand of football is a lie.

Quoted from rancido

Well if Southgate does go, and I think he's will, then I hope we appoint an English manager. I just find it totally unbelievable that we have one of the best top flight leagues, some really good young footballers, an excellent FA structure and some posters want to appoint a foreign manager. If Germany, Spain ,France, Netherlands and Italy can employ home developed managers then we should be able to.

Problem is I think you're hard pushed to appoint an English manager who has the necessary experience to do one of the biggest jobs in football. Potter is being touted, not sure what that's based upon. Eddie Howe? maybe. Lee Carsley is part of the set up and won the euros at U21 level (oddly enough beating Spain in the final) but that feels like a stretch but I'm sure it's in the FA's thoughts.

Anyone but Klopp though TBH.

Personally believe that Southgate basically picked his starting 11 2/3 months prior to the tournament, as it was the same 10, depending on the suspension to Gaiuy ( or however it’s spelled) in fact if Maguire had been fit the he would have started instead of Guiay, I know Trent started the first 2 games but heavens above why were we experimenting during a tournament. The only time we looked to play with pace and actually pass it forward was when Southgate made his substitutions, prior to that we were so slow going forward it gave the opposition time to organise their defence, as for Kane, why was he picked for every game, it was obvious he was not fit enough and spent more time coming back for the ball, hence there was never anyone upfield for Pickford to hoof those accurate big kicks up to, that 80% of the time was just giving the ball back to the best footballing team at the tournament.

Quoted from Mappers

It must be individual as he's never won a trophy with club or country has he ?
Unless we count runners up medals

I think he will win something at Bayern given time? (ammended from Spurs as hard day at work ).

Quoted from mariner91

Wouldn’t take much to give up nothing. The man is cursed.

Feel Harry is a good striker if given the chances especially his finishing which is decent. I remember Luis Enrique whilst in charge of Spain talking about Kane for one and a player he would have in the Spanish side over Alvaro Morata.

I can't believe the grief Kane is getting on here. He's scored a ridiculous number of goals in the past calendar year, created loads of assists and will be the first name on the teamsheet at Bayern next season when he'll again score a hatful of goals.

He was certainly a bit out of sorts, probably due to lingering injury, but he wasn't the only one. We were playing a formation where we barely got the ball in the opposition box, and when it did come in, it was almost always against a massed defence because we are so flipping slow moving the ball forward. Play better football and Kane will score more goals. It's pretty simple, really.

The idea that has somehow appeared that Watkins was going to shoot England to glory is so far from reality it's bizarre. You can guarantee that Kane will be the first name on the teamsheet if fit whether or not Southgate stays and Watkins/Toney/Rashford will remain options to come off the bench if the game needs to be changed.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Problem is I think you're hard pushed to appoint an English manager who has the necessary experience to do one of the biggest jobs in football. Potter is being touted, not sure what that's based upon. Eddie Howe? maybe. Lee Carsley is part of the set up and won the euros at U21 level (oddly enough beating Spain in the final) but that feels like a stretch but I'm sure it's in the FA's thoughts.

Anyone but Klopp though TBH.

But by experience then surely that would be at International level, ie a manager who has managed a national side. Club football, even at the highest level with European football involved is totally different to National football. Maybe I am a nationalist but if we can only have players with an English connection then we should select managers with the same credentials. I just don't think a foreign manager will have the same connection with an England squad like an English one would. Then you might get the possible " conflict of interest" with a foreign manager. Imagine playing yesterday's final against Spain and we had a Spanish manager?

I can see what people are saying about Southgate but I do fear that if he goes we would just refer to our more usual effort of being out in the round dog 16 or quarter finals, If we even qualify. The idea that just having a more tactically aware manager / more attacking manager would solve the problem and England would win a tournament sounds appealing and simple as those are areas of weakness for Gareth, but it is very rarely that simple.

Keegan passionate and attacking, but admittedly limited tactically and had never won anything - failed.
Replaced with sven, a cerebral manager, calm and composed who had won stuff - failed albeit  with 3 quarter finals. We just need someone who is more passionate and tactical - then we can take the next steps to semi or final, I remember the news articles.
McLaren appointed - passionate and respected coach. Utter abysmal failure, failed to qualify for euro 2008. Wally in the brolly.
Back to a foreign manager in Capello, a strict disciplinarian, seen as being the perfect improvement on the foreign sven - he would bring discipline were sven was seen as too soft - epic failure with England dreadful in the world cup, soundly beaten in round for 16 after dreadful group performances
Back to an Englishman with hodgdon, penalty defeat to Italy in the quarter finals not too bad in the euros, but bottom of the group with no wins in the world cup and then that humiliation against Iceland in the following euros.

What I'm trying to say is that it always seems like with England they change from what the previous manager brought in an attempt to solve the issue of not winning anything, it always seems tantalisingly close if we just had a manager who was more passionate/less emotional/more tactical/more English/more foreign/more strict etc etc. it never ever works out like that. The last time we had anything  even approaching this level of success was under Sven with 3 back to back quarter finals, two of which we took to penalties. I remember the frustration in the media with sven and how w just had to have someone with more tactical fluidity to 'take England to the next level' or someone who was less indulgent with the players (remember the wags in baden baden). Well we tried that with a coach type manager and a disciplinarian and both were disasters, never approaching anything like the success the swede had.

I can understand the urge to try and change it and to 'upgrade' on Southgate tactically - but it's far far more likely we go backwards to our more normal 'par' I'm afraid - that what youd expect from history anyway.  Who are we talking about Eddie Howe, Graham potter? If it was klopp and he really does want to go to international level football I'd take the plunge but otherwise I think i fear we will be looking back with great fondness for the Southgate era after a round of 16 exit....

Mad that on Saturday September 7th England play Ireland in the opening Nations League game. Whoever is in charge needs to use that pointless tournament to start those squad players from Germany who didn't get minutes and also blood some new talent. This is the competition where we should experiment and take the hand break off.

Instead of playing these Euro and world cup games at the end of the season when most players are knackered.

Play them in December like the last world cup or in August before the club season starts..

We will get a better performance out of the players and hopefully a few more wins.

Spain were that good.  They beat every other European team that had won the World Cup.  And Croatia, recent finalists.

They got defence and attack perfectly balanced.

Their team that lost 2-0 defeat to Scotland has been completely changed.  Only Rodri remained.  He missed the second half when Spain were dominant.

Interestingly,The Sunday Times reported that overall distances covered (before the final) England had 5 players in the top 7. Rice no 1, Foden 2, others in top 7:  Bellingham, Walker and Kane. Stones is 11th, Saka 15th.

Only Rodi and Ruiz are in the top 20.  Spain keeping the ball, England chasing it.  Which is very tiring.

England were a team of moments.  3 of the best goals of the Euro’s.  All different types of goals, all different scorers.  All critical and very late goals.  We play better when our backs at against the wall.  We can come back from a goal down.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Nations League game. Whoever is in charge needs to use that pointless tournament

I see it as a positive though as it's a step up from the friendly's which I was never that keen on . Around 10 million in prize money for the winners and gives it a more competitive edge as players who have won it previously have claimed.

Quoted from Rick12

I see it as a positive though as it's a step up from the friendly's which I was never that keen on . Around 10 million in prize money for the winners and gives it a more competitive edge as players who have won it previously have claimed.

Fair point,

Quoted from grimsby pete

Instead of playing these Euro and world cup games at the end of the season when most players are knackered.

Play them in December like the last world cup or in August before the club season starts..

We will get a better performance out of the players and hopefully a few more wins.

No thanks
1 winter world cup was bad enough

Quoted from grimsby pete

Instead of playing these Euro and world cup games at the end of the season when most players are knackered.

Play them in December like the last world cup or in August before the club season starts..

We will get a better performance out of the players and hopefully a few more wins.

Er, won’t every team enjoy the same kind of benefit? Our players are no more knackered than any others.

Quoted from Maringer

I can't believe the grief Kane is getting on here. He's scored a ridiculous number of goals in the past calendar year, created loads of assists and will be the first name on the teamsheet at Bayern next season when he'll again score a hatful of goals.

He was certainly a bit out of sorts, probably due to lingering injury, but he wasn't the only one. We were playing a formation where we barely got the ball in the opposition box, and when it did come in, it was almost always against a massed defence because we are so flipping slow moving the ball forward. Play better football and Kane will score more goals. It's pretty simple, really.

The idea that has somehow appeared that Watkins was going to shoot England to glory is so far from reality it's bizarre. You can guarantee that Kane will be the first name on the teamsheet if fit whether or not Southgate stays and Watkins/Toney/Rashford will remain options to come off the bench if the game needs to be changed.

Baffling isn't it. I wonder if any other country would bash their record goal scorer to the levels that Kane gets. Very much an English mentality. Bellingham's getting his fair share now too. Before him Rooney, Beckham, Shearer, Lineker...all were built up to be knocked down again.

I don't think Kane was effective as he can be and I do think he dropped too deep, based on what was going on around him this tournament. Him dropping deep is something that has worked for a long, long time. It's nothing new. But it requires runners for him to pick out with his passing, without those runners it doesn't work and he becomes redundant. For me it was either we have those runners in the side or Kane doesn't drop deep. As it happens we went for the worst of both worlds. But for as disappointing as he was and I've even said he was redundant, he got the joint Golden Boot.

Quoted from diehardmariner

Baffling isn't it. I wonder if any other country would bash their record goal scorer to the levels that Kane gets. Very much an English mentality. Bellingham's getting his fair share now too. Before him Rooney, Beckham, Shearer, Lineker...all were built up to be knocked down again.

I don't think Kane was effective as he can be and I do think he dropped too deep, based on what was going on around him this tournament. Him dropping deep is something that has worked for a long, long time. It's nothing new. But it requires runners for him to pick out with his passing, without those runners it doesn't work and he becomes redundant. For me it was either we have those runners in the side or Kane doesn't drop deep. As it happens we went for the worst of both worlds. But for as disappointing as he was and I've even said he was redundant, he got the joint Golden Boot.

Well I was watching a Ben Foster podcast this morning, and they said that looking at the stats, Harry Kane had only ONE run into an opponents penalty area in the whole of the tournament. The official Euro 2024 page appears to confirm that as true. https://www.uefa.com/euro2024/teams/players/250016833--harry-kane/statistics/

Quoted from grimsby pete

Instead of playing these Euro and world cup games at the end of the season when most players are knackered.

Play them in December like the last world cup or in August before the club season starts..

We will get a better performance out of the players and hopefully a few more wins.

So how did that pan out in Qatar November/December 2022?

Quoted from Maringer

I can't believe the grief Kane is getting on here. He's scored a ridiculous number of goals in the past calendar year, created loads of assists and will be the first name on the teamsheet at Bayern next season when he'll again score a hatful of goals.

He was certainly a bit out of sorts, probably due to lingering injury, but he wasn't the only one. We were playing a formation where we barely got the ball in the opposition box, and when it did come in, it was almost always against a massed defence because we are so flipping slow moving the ball forward. Play better football and Kane will score more goals. It's pretty simple, really.

The idea that has somehow appeared that Watkins was going to shoot England to glory is so far from reality it's bizarre. You can guarantee that Kane will be the first name on the teamsheet if fit whether or not Southgate stays and Watkins/Toney/Rashford will remain options to come off the bench if the game needs to be changed.

It's not Kanes fault its Southgates for picking him.
England had one good half, the first half in the first match, the rest was average to poor with flashes of brilliance, including a penno shootout, that got them to the final.
If the strategy was to allow the opposition to have the ball and get them on the counter, that's not Kanes game. If it was pressing, Southgate bemoaned that he didn't have the players that could, nor, that they did press actually press. Kane doesn't press. There is on the net somewhere Bellingham berating the bench that " Kane and Foden are not pressing, change something".
And yet the bunch of players he had at his disposal all play for Premier top end teams that Press as part of their dogma. England looked better after Kane came off, but too late.
Kane didn't play well from the off, Southgate should have been more ruthless, as Spain was beatable.

Southgate resigned then!

Quoted from Ruuger

Well I was watching a Ben Foster podcast this morning, and they said that looking at the stats, Harry Kane had only ONE run into an opponents penalty area in the whole of the tournament. The official Euro 2024 page appears to confirm that as true. https://www.uefa.com/euro2024/teams/players/250016833--harry-kane/statistics/

And he scored 3 goals. Simply running into the opponents' penalty area over and over again isn't how he gets his goals, especially against a massed defence which is what he generally faced. Notable that the distance covered stats show that he was one of the most active players in the whole tournament which rather goes against the idea that he was being lazy. He scored a hatful of goals last season, sometimes dropping into midfield to seed Musiala and Sane or playing off them as they ran past him to create space and link play. England played Kane through the middle, completely isolated with nobody anywhere near him most of the time except for Saka right out on the byline. We had pretty much nobody on the left and then Foden and Bellingham vying for possession in an advanced midfield role behind and that was pretty much it.

For all the criticism of Kane, I wonder how Lineker would be treated these days? Lho, lest we forget, he either scored or did nothing. He didn't link up play, didn't go into midfield, nothing. A goal-hanger trying to find space in the box if others created a chance for him. He was good at it, but he also did have players creating chances for him. Kane didn't in this tournament.

Quoted from Maringer

For all the criticism of Kane, I wonder how Lineker would be treated these days? Lho, lest we forget, he either scored or did nothing. He didn't link up play, didn't go into midfield, nothing. A goal-hanger trying to find space in the box if others created a chance for him. He was good at it, but he also did have players creating chances for him. Kane didn't in this tournament.

Think Gary Linekar was possibly better than Harry Kane.Got a move to Barcelona and by some accounts was unlucky to have been released by the Blaugrana when a new manager came in with differing ideas?.

Nah, sorry but even accepting that it's a completely different game there isn't a chance that Lineker even manages to lace one of Harry Kane's Skechers.

Lineker's England record is hugely inflated by goals in friendlies against sub-standard opposition and a huge purple patch from WC '86 through the Spring '87 where he bagged 4 against Spain (who were no way near the levels of modern Spanish sides).

Of course Kane's benefited from games against the likes of Macedonia and San Marino but he's consistently scored goals in meaningful games at a better rate than Lineker, arguably in a more defensive minded side and whilst contributing far more to his team overall.

Quoted from diehardmariner

Nah, sorry but even accepting that it's a completely different game there isn't a chance that Lineker even manages to lace one of Harry Kane's Skechers.

Lineker's England record is hugely inflated by goals in friendlies against sub-standard opposition and a huge purple patch from WC '86 through the Spring '87 where he bagged 4 against Spain (who were no way near the levels of modern Spanish sides).

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Kane must of been deeply gutted inside to come off early in the second half in a major final when he wanted to win so bad against Spain?.

I think we have to accept that the bottom line is that Spanish football at both club and international level is simply better than in England.

Since 2008 Spain have won the Euros three times, and the World Cup once. Makes our two losing finals and a semi in the same period look rather tame doesn't it.

At club level since 2014 there have been 7 Spanish winners of the Champions league against 3 English. Over the same period there have been 7 Spanish winners of the Europa League verses 2 English.

This century Spanish club and International sides have appeared against English teams in 10 finals, winning all of them. In all Spanish teams have now won 22 consecutive major finals which they have appeared in this century.

We keep getting fed the line that the Prem is the best league in they world. Well it's not if you gauge the best on results against the Spanish.

Because they win it almost very year we are told that Man City are thus the best team in the world. If they were then I think they would have more than a single Champions League win to show for it. Real Madrid have won it six times since 2016.

The alternative explanation for City's domination of the Prem is that it simply isn't as good a league as we are encouraged to believe.