Lincoln City

Quoted from diehardmariner

Not negative at all.

You can cut the numbers anyway you want really.  The population of NEL has decreased in the last 10 years yet attendances have increased considerably, that's without any real success. There's no two ways about it, the club are in the same position they were 19 years ago and no amount of promotions from the fifth tier will wash with anyone over the age of 25/30 as 'success'.  Anyone over that age grew up with Town more than capable of operating at the third and second tiers.  Rightly or wrongly that is their standard and benchmark, as ridiculous as it sounds in the modern game.  

Lincoln is clearly a growing city, as evidenced by the fact it's flipping impossible to get to anywhere at anything other than snail pace, but your attendance has only increased on the back of quite considerable success in terms of reaching a level very few of your fan base will have seen, certainly for a sustained period anyway.  Potentially I would say Town could get more fans in if both clubs were operating at the same level.  The key word is could.  Our ground wouldn't allow it and potential is worth jaff all without the ability to convert it into something.

Back to you and your investors though, the question for me is still why?  Why on earth would anyone pump money into a club for the sake of it.  You don't make money from football and the ramblings of your Sincil Bank friend just scream 'it'll be ok because they said it will'.    There has to be a reason they're involved.



They're the words of Harvey Jabara, your US bankroller.  It's a football investment. So they feel the football club itself has something they can invest it and get a return on.  That means they eventually think someone is going to come in and give them a return on their investment.  I've seen a quote from Jabara where he says stuff about long-term, not flipping his investment etc.  If that's the case then he's not really investing is he, it's throwing money away with the knowledge that he isn't getting anything back on it...which is fine.  So why constantly use the term 'investment'.  

How much have his family invested in the club and then add a good percentage onto that for a return.  Do you think anyone is going to buy his shares for that value?  This probably is the negative bit but it just doesn't add up to me.  I will be as cautious when 1878 come to getting outside investment in here and ask the question of what is it going to cost us in the long run.  

I've not got any issue with football clubs getting investment.  I just can't for the life of me see the value of investing in a lower league football team to the tune of considerable millions.  If it's costing that amount of money to get you to the top half of League One, what's it going to cost to get to the Championship and then a position of stability (where you're then probably only remotely interesting to other investment groups)?

Look at the average attendances in that league - https://www.footballwebpages.co.uk/championship/attendances

It's scary.  Even the second lowest averages are almost double what you're pulling in.  Just on ticket sales alone that's around £2.5mill the likes of Blackburn, Preston, Millwall have over you.  Those clubs that are in the middle of the attendance table you can double that amount.   Do these guys have £5million upwards a season just to be remotely competitive at this level?  

Even then, do you invest in Lincoln with a stadium that has limited potential or a club like Rotherham with a bigger ground, even a basketcase club like Reading with a huge stadium and far more potential?  I know where my money would go (if I was daft enough to expect a return on a football club).

Believe me. We'll be in exactly the same position when it comes to 1878 moving on.  We're not a good investment.  1878 themselves are probably shocked at how much of a money drain a football club is and we've generated bonus income in the last 24 months or so.  

It might be that Jabara and his family genuinely just want to throw money at it to give you guys the best chance of succeeding.  I hope that's the case.  But if they step away, who plugs the £3million a year sized hole?

Quoted from Dogger Bank

I agree with your descriptions of some of the grounds and not what I would want if we ever went for a new home. That wasn't my point though, just examples of clubs who didn't pack their grounds out (some far from it) but they moved to try and take their club forward. I would assume the maintenance costs of running those grounds is significantly lower than trying to maintain an older ground and keep it up to standards to allow them to operate. Older grounds are romantic and part of the football heritage in this county, that doesn't mean we should keep them.

Blundell Park for me can't be improved drastically to make it viable long term. Surrounded three sides with terraced housing and a road/railway line the other. Any expansion (if that was possible) would cause even more traffic, parking and pedestrian issues in the surrounding area. There have been new grounds muted over a long period of time but none of come to fruition for various reasons. There have been good reasons why we should move and they still apply. As Andrew Pettit said at the forum any new ground would have to incorporate many  areas of use aside football to make it financially viable to run. It's not top of the shopping list for the club at the moment but long term we go nowhere staying at BP as a club, attracting players or new fans for that matter.

Quoted from 123614

But where are we going to get the £40 Mil+ from to build the ground?

Quoted from Dogger Bank

£40m is a figure that was mentioned by JS but I'm not sure where he plucked that from. It cost £20m to build the New York Stadium in Rotherham. 10 years ago I admit but prices haven't doubled in the construction world I do know as I work in it.

Quoted from 123614

York City paid £47Mil for their new stadium.

Quoted from LocalLadGTFC

Yorks is a full leisure complex isn't it aswell?

Quoted from LocalLadGTFC

Yorks is a full leisure complex isn't it aswell?

Quoted from Mappers

Yeah mate