Lincoln City

Quoted from DB

Our Lincoln supporter should realise that what goes up surely comes down. A few years ago Scunthorpe were riding high in the championship, they're in the NLN.

He should do a recky of teams in that league because as sure as eggs are eggs when his American benefactors have had enough that is where they will end up.

Not going to get in to an argument about finances etc etc again, but I can assure you DB that we are on a very sound financial footing - With decent investors who buy shares, not invest by loaning us money. Irrespective of their motives, we have a ground/Pitch that has had lots of upgrades to it, including the SW stand which is now fully open, a very good training ground, and a squad which is worth millions having already sold a millions worth of talent over the Summer.

Whilst I do not think we will trouble the play -offs this year as how can we compete with teams that spend 35 million on their team, I do think we are slowly but surely becoming an established League 1 club, in the fact we don't trouble the bottom 6 really.

When we demolish the stand opposite the CO-OP stand, and build something similar, our capacity will be between 14 and 15k - then we may be able to push on.

Quoted from David Frazer

70s im in my 80s !

Jesus!  

I'm gonna play a bit with numbers but if you're in your 80's and on the premise that you started following Lincoln at a relatively early age, let's say 10, then you've had 70+ years as a fan.  That means you started going mid 1950's.  Let's just round it off as 1955.

There's an excellent website, https://sean.mcgivern.me.uk/historical-league-positions/, that allows you to plot out comparative league placings in the English pyramid.   Unfortunately it doesn't include non-league placings.  neither your one year spell in the 1980's or either clubs more recent spells.  Regardless, that's no major issue, when you were in the 1980's we clearly finished above you.  Our first year in the Conference in 2010 you finished above us (even if you did get relegated) and then the subsequent 5 years with both clubs in the Conference we were comfortably the higher finisher.   Since both clubs have returned to the league, again without doubt, bragging rights belong to yourselves.



But for the absolute majority of your life Grimsby Town have considerably proved to be the higher placed club.  It is quite literally the last 6 years were you've had the best run of it, the last time you had it this good colour TV wasn't even a thing!  Even still, that gap (which is significant, don't get me wrong) doesn't touch the sides of what we had over you for a good 20 years.

You've never been a rival.  You never will be.  That's not sour grapes or jealousy, it's a fact that anyone over the age of 25 in our fan base never really considered you as anything other than the outfit down the road.   If you saw us as a rival is a different matter, you would suffered really bad neck ache if you were looking up at us a rival for so many years though.  

I look on with a combination of envy and admiration at what you've done in the last half a decade, it really is admirable.  I'm very cautious for you as to how sustainable it is but here and now it's an achievement and half.   I'm not comparing history with the modern, you're the better side now.  But why are crowing over us like we're a historical rival?   Mansfield and Chesterfield are of a similar distance and travel time to Lincoln, they've historically spent more time at the same level as you - do you go on their forums bragging

Smug is how I currently see the Lincoln supporters I come into contact with both face to face & on social media. The company I work for has an office in Nottingham there’s a few there, though they tend to tone it down a bit as it’s full of Forest fans. No County supporters though, which is odd as they’re generally up their own @rses at the moment as well.

Both ourselves & Lincoln are well owned & on an upward curve, Lincoln are further along than us and it appears have spent considerable amounts on players to progress up the pyramid but don’t have the resources to match some of the current teams in L1, bit like us really in one respect as in L2 some clubs will always spend possibly beyond their means but we’ve been quite well balanced in how we’ve funded the recruitment as we’re taking a sustainable approach, which means our debts won’t cripple us.

Sooner or later we’ll be in the same league, not sure when but its inevitable, we’ll then see who comes out on top on the pitch where smugness counts for nothing.

Quoted from nealeardleyscrossing

Not going to get in to an argument about finances etc etc again, but I can assure you DB that we are on a very sound financial footing - With decent investors who buy shares, not invest by loaning us money. Irrespective of their motives, we have a ground/Pitch that has had lots of upgrades to it, including the SW stand which is now fully open, a very good training ground, and a squad which is worth millions having already sold a millions worth of talent over the Summer.

Whilst I do not think we will trouble the play -offs this year as how can we compete with teams that spend 35 million on their team, I do think we are slowly but surely becoming an established League 1 club, in the fact we don't trouble the bottom 6 really.

When we demolish the stand opposite the CO-OP stand, and build something similar, our capacity will be between 14 and 15k - then we may be able to push on.

I believe Liverpool had an American owner, who after a few years, tried hard to sell the club. It took a fair while before it happened and then there is the Everton fiasco.

Quoted from nealeardleyscrossing

Not going to get in to an argument about finances etc etc again, but I can assure you DB that we are on a very sound financial footing - With decent investors who buy shares, not invest by loaning us money. Irrespective of their motives, we have a ground/Pitch that has had lots of upgrades to it, including the SW stand which is now fully open, a very good training ground, and a squad which is worth millions having already sold a millions worth of talent over the Summer.

Whilst I do not think we will trouble the play -offs this year as how can we compete with teams that spend 35 million on their team, I do think we are slowly but surely becoming an established League 1 club, in the fact we don't trouble the bottom 6 really.

When we demolish the stand opposite the CO-OP stand, and build something similar, our capacity will be between 14 and 15k - then we may be able to push on.

As always, sensible from yourself to counter the babblings of others.

I keep repeating this point, but it's still the thing I struggle to understand.  The investment can't continue, can it?  As good and as noble as the intentions of the investors are, they're putting money into your club with a view to making a profit.  That's the motivator, nothing else.    You've described a perfect storm of stagnation, you don't think you'll trouble the top 6 but you don't think you'll get dragged into relegation either.  I think I'd agree with that assessment.  There's still some serious big players at that level and the levels of investment are growing, unfortunately the brain-dead levels of spending from the likes of Birmingham, Wrexham et al does nothing other than to encourage others to spend beyond their means.

There has to come a point when the investors will want a return on what they've put in.   That can only come in two ways. 1) You become incredibly re-investable/sellable as a club and they're able to sell the share holding at a profit to someone else.  2) You sell assets.

Option 1 would require promotion to the Championship and then I'd argue a period at that level which would include increasing both your capacity and fanbase.   Promotion would be incredibly difficult, staying there even harder and then I'm far from convinced on your ability to increase your fanbase beyond what you've got now to be honest.  I don't get the willy-waving of away followings but the failure to take the full allocation away at Peterborough should be an indication of the natural ceiling you've got.   Unless you double your gate at a higher level, re-investment is going to be very difficult because you'll always need continual investment just to keep your head above the water.  That's not appealing to investors.

Option 2.  If you sell your ground or your training set-up that's just disaster all round.  Let's not even consider that, it would be asset stripping.  The other option is player sales.  From yourself and other Lincoln fans who post on this board there's clearly a degree of pride and hope in the fact you've got sellable assets in your squad.  With a long term picture you might look to say well we've got the scope to continually improve year-on-year if we sell and reinvest.  Player X goes this year for £3million, you can spend £3million on buying someone who you then sell for £4million the next year.  And so on and so on...

Bit by bit by bit you get better and better.  But how long does it take to plug the gap to get promoted and established in the Championship?  Quickly enough before the investors get bored?  It's also incredibly reliant on getting your recruitment right every single time.  That's not even considering the risk of injuries, drop-offs in form etc.

To me I see ongoing investment in a club just to stay where they are (at best).  On paper it's not debt, it's not as simple as calling it in.  But at some point you will have to return that investment, even if just the initial outlay.  I cannot see a realistic scenario where you are able to do that unless an incredibly rich and stupid benefactor comes in.

For what it's worth, this is probably the exact same scenario we're aiming to achieve!  Reaching the point that our ceiling will allow us to do so.  Beyond that the current economics of football dictate that it's nigh on impossible to break through.

Quoted from nealeardleyscrossing

Not going to get in to an argument about finances etc etc again, but I can assure you DB that we are on a very sound financial footing - With decent investors who buy shares, not invest by loaning us money. Irrespective of their motives, we have a ground/Pitch that has had lots of upgrades to it, including the SW stand which is now fully open, a very good training ground, and a squad which is worth millions having already sold a millions worth of talent over the Summer.

Whilst I do not think we will trouble the play -offs this year as how can we compete with teams that spend 35 million on their team, I do think we are slowly but surely becoming an established League 1 club, in the fact we don't trouble the bottom 6 really.

When we demolish the stand opposite the CO-OP stand, and build something similar, our capacity will be between 14 and 15k - then we may be able to push on.

Every club that operates at a loss is potentially at risk. You (like us) have handed out contracts that the club can’t honour by the revenue it generates.

We only have to look at Scunthorpe to see what happens when an owner is either unable or unwilling to put another penny in despite having futures losses already budgeted for.

Both Lincoln & Grimsby have the advantage of more than one investor rather than relying on one person, but neither of us should be getting carried away and be totally at ease with losing millions and millions of pounds.

Quoted from David Frazer

70s im in my 80s !

You're in your 80s and you refer to Wrexham as "Rectum"?

Jesus wept...

Quoted from nealeardleyscrossing

Not going to get in to an argument about finances etc etc again, but I can assure you DB that we are on a very sound financial footing - With decent investors who buy shares, not invest by loaning us money. Irrespective of their motives, we have a ground/Pitch that has had lots of upgrades to it, including the SW stand which is now fully open, a very good training ground, and a squad which is worth millions having already sold a millions worth of talent over the Summer.

Whilst I do not think we will trouble the play -offs this year as how can we compete with teams that spend 35 million on their team, I do think we are slowly but surely becoming an established League 1 club, in the fact we don't trouble the bottom 6 really.

When we demolish the stand opposite the CO-OP stand, and build something similar, our capacity will be between 14 and 15k - then we may be able to push on.

Genuine question; why bother? You’re at probably the ceiling of what you can realistically achieve given your gates and budgets and history. Your fan base has increased 300% in the last 7 seasons due to an unprecedented and historic FA cup run alongside a title winning season. Since then it’s stagnated and actually slightly decreased despite continued success in the sense that you’ve not spent successive seasons in the top half of L1 in pretty much the lifetime of anyone who’s currently going to matches. Yet even now when you’re 3rd in L1, there were more than 2000 empty seats in the home stands at your last home match and you failed to fill a small away allocation that’s two hours from home. The chances of you massively increasing your attendances again seem, to me at least, to be highly unlikely. So why would “investors” waste millions of pounds doing so?

I honestly don’t believe either Town or Lincoln could survive in the championship, even with a ground that could hold 15k, just look at any club in the championship and see what there yearly losses our, I believe someone like Preston budget for a minimum loss of 10 million per season.

Quoted from mariner91

Genuine question; why bother? You’re at probably the ceiling of what you can realistically achieve given your gates and budgets and history. Your fan base has increased 300% in the last 7 seasons due to an unprecedented and historic FA cup run alongside a title winning season. Since then it’s stagnated and actually slightly decreased despite continued success in the sense that you’ve not spent successive seasons in the top half of L1 in pretty much the lifetime of anyone who’s currently going to matches. Yet even now when you’re 3rd in L1, there were more than 2000 empty seats in the home stands at your last home match and you failed to fill a small away allocation that’s two hours from home. The chances of you massively increasing your attendances again seem, to me at least, to be highly unlikely. So why would “investors” waste millions of pounds doing so?

Well they’re building 3000 new homes between the bypass and the Tritton Road with all surrounding villages, including where I am, also having between 200 and 400 hundred new homes being built so population wise the greater Lincoln area could have around 20,000 increase in the next five years. I also have witnessed the complete change of interest in supporting Lincoln by youngsters who previously would be seen in premier league strips now wearing the Lincoln colours. So I don’t expect a significant change in their attendance figures in the near future unless there’s a massive change in their results. All unfortunately makes my life more difficult but I had 30+ good years where we were always better then them so can take the urine taking which comes my way currently.

One final note I get fed up with “fans” like Frazer going on about dog shite around Blundell Park which like every other town, city or village suffers from the same problem but Christ has he not seen where Sincil Bank is situated in what is becoming a no go area at night as it becomes a mini Eastern European suburb!