Financial abyss

Yes, I was impressed by S & H last night BUT Fenty basically admits that not only has he taken this club into non-league status but also to the edge of the financial abyss.

Budgeted losses of over £900k for 2 years are unsustainable and despite his positivity regarding the stadium, no-one will invest in a club at this level with those sort of debts. I don't even think the Scottish lottery winners would be daft enough!

GTFC is dangling by a financial thread according to the figures and if either Fenty or Parker, or both, decide to cut and run the club could easily fold.

Simple as.

Our playing budget basically equates to a similar figure of the losses.

Therefore all income from gate receipts, commercial activities and League sponsorship goes just to a) service debt, b)pay non playing staff c) upkeep and maintenance of the premises, d) Youth team/SOE and e) Insurances and professional fees.

Surely NO business should project to lose nearly a £1m per annum for 2 years running?

May be this is where people will realise that actually fenty has done as much bad for this club as he has good. One could argue that if we go up within three years then it has helped and gets you back to where the club needs to be, if it doesn't then who knows. One thing is for sure, we are not by any means the only club in this situation, one could argue that in fact that the large majority of teams are and some far far worse than town.

I know the guy came in and 'saved' us but I'm finding it very hard now to convince even myself that he has done any good for this club.

As far as Fenty is concerned it's all if's and but's.  He has put more into the club now than he would have, had he paid the tax debt back when he took over.  Instead he put in place a system were the club paid back every penny at the cost of hiring and firing the dregs of football.  But there are more people to blame for our demise than just JF, he has played a major part in it though.  If he didn't have cash behind him he would have been sacked many moons ago along with the limpets (not including Parker) who have some how managed to stay on the board without doing sod all.

For those saying we wouldn't have had a club had we gone into admin, just look at the long list of league clubs who we are better supported than who have kicked on and are now light years ahead of us.  Our council is part to blame for that as is other groups such as Great Coates moaning minnies and Natural England.

So what's new, Town have been operating a loss like this for years. This what makes clubs like Rotherham so annoying. To try and beat this cycle of debt we've tried to save money everywhere, but suffered with relegations as a result, rather than run up debts, go into admin, and pay feck all back like our friends down the M18.

This also highlights the need for a new stadium. As much as we all love BP,most of the money is being hoovered up to prop up a ground that dates back to Boer War.

Looking back, i know hindsight is a wonderful thing, but had we just gone into administration back then we would probably still be in the league and in a similar position to rovrum etc...instead we scrimped, saved and ended up with dregs, had half a decent season but again, money saving measures cost us, the list goes on...yes we did it all legally and by the rules but intercourse me, those that did have paid a far bigger price than those that didn't, with the exception of those twits at luton of course...

Luton weren't hit hard enough, they went down with a team that was hit with -30 points and they almost over took us.  Their fans haven't had to watch the utter shite we've been dished up to stay honourable.  They have also been in the top 3/5 since they have been down here, they should have been hit with a transfer embargo for up to 3 seasons.

Thing with Luton is, what they do prove is that this league is indeed hard to get out of. They went down with a team capable of the playoffs in league 2 yet haven't been successful in the conference, yes they've had two attempts at the play offs but with no success...proves its a tricky one.

Yes i agree also, they should have been hit harder, and if what i hear about Luton is true then the way they behave etc they should never be allowed to operate let alone get back in the league.

There are several rumours about how Luton operate doing the rounds and one of the reasons why some people think they should have been hit harder.  The -30 points relegated them but also gave them a sense of martyrdom and they got sympathy they didn't deserve.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Budgeted losses of over £900k for 2 years are unsustainable

didn't realise it was as bad as that

Ok so how do you produce a budget that tells a different story if there is no money? Isn't the question whether the budget is a realistic and accurate one rather than a "bad"one? It can only be a good one by spending less somewhere or increasing income, difficult to see where cust could be made that would create enough savings so where does increased revenue come from? Successful team will generate improved attendances (maybe) so what assumptions does the budget make about league position?

Some people say we could just have gone into admin to write the debts off. I just want to remind them if nobody is prepared to offer the kind of cash the administrator is looking for there is no longer a club. Maidstone, Halifax, Telford, Rushden are just a few of the clubs that have had to reform due to them going into liquidation.

Quoted from scrumble

So what's new, Town have been operating a loss like this for years.

The debts since we went down have hugely increased. If we don't get promoted in the next couple of years we'll have no choice but to move to a smaller budget and could stay down here for a very long time.

Quoted from tashee69

Some people say we could just have gone into admin to write the debts off. I just want to remind them if nobody is prepared to offer the kind of cash the administrator is looking for there is no longer a club. Maidstone, Halifax, Telford, Rushden are just a few of the clubs that have had to reform due to them going into liquidation.

But none of those where league clubs. When our troubles started we where still a Championship side and at the time we wouldn't have been hit with a ten point fine. Leicester City did just that at the time, and wiped out a £20m debt, and got back into the premiership. Rotherham are in a permanent state of administration, and seem to do okay out of it.

If we're losing such money and are still constantly sh!t then it shows just how awful we are when many teams have much lower crowds, lower income, operate on lower budgets, don't lose as much money as us yet are still a division or two higher than us.

Quoted from scrumble

But none of those where league clubs. When our troubles started we where still a Championship side and at the time we wouldn't have been hit with a ten point fine. Leicester City did just that at the time, and wiped out a £20m debt, and got back into the premiership. Rotherham are in a permanent state of administration, and seem to do okay out of it.

As an aside I'm pretty sure that all the organisations in the food chain immediately below GTFC, presumably small, medium and large businesses, were pretty happy at the decision not to enter administration.  It does strike me that everyone is very careless with other peoples money/livelyhood!

Quoted from scrumble

But none of those where league clubs. When our troubles started we where still a Championship side and at the time we wouldn't have been hit with a ten point fine. Leicester City did just that at the time, and wiped out a £20m debt, and got back into the premiership. Rotherham are in a permanent state of administration, and seem to do okay out of it.

Maidstone was, as was Aldershot. Look at Leicester, big city, centrally located, look at Grimsby, small town, edge of nowhere, no famous ex players to also help out. IF somebodt would have bailed us out then it may have worked well but I do believe it would still have gone to the creditors voting. You'll have to forgive me it is over 20 years since i worked in liquidations, voluntary arrangements and other types of insolvency. We didnt deal with many Admins and i was just a young pup learning the job.

Quoted from Mariner_501

If we're losing such money and are still constantly sh!t then it shows just how awful we are when many teams have much lower crowds, lower income, operate on lower budgets, don't lose as much money as us yet are still a division or two higher than us.

Absolutely spot on.

The damning indictment of Fenty's reign is that we have spent more money going down than other clubs have going in the opposite direction.

Someone will reply that he doesn't pick the team - well he has picked the managers and picked fights with radio stations, other clubs, ex-managers and then dared to advise Lincoln how not to go down.

I listened last night with incredulity at the sycophants clapping the man who has brought GTFC to its knees. Incredible.

Brighton were one of the other club's that were relegated from the Championship at the same time as us and faced similar problems as us re ITV Digital and ground relocation.

This coming season they are back in the Championship in a brand new ground, a world away from where we are right now.

Just shows the difference between having people who know what they are doing re running a football club and those who are clueless.

Easy to say that but is it a bit harsh ?
You could argue Brighton are a big town down south with more likelihood of invesment.

Quoted from 1600

Easy to say that but is it a bit harsh ?
You could argue Brighton are a big town down south with more likelihood of invesment.

Indeed.  Tony Bloom has access to a lot more money than either MP or JF IMHO.  As for the ground, I think their relocation has only come about after a decade of fight from the club, fans (en mass) and local celebrities.  I haven't seen too much help for JF from all the knockers   in driving through the move to a new stadium.

Quoted from 1600

Easy to say that but is it a bit harsh ?
You could argue Brighton are a big town down south with more likelihood of invesment.

Which brings back round to the argument re people being willing to invest in the club.

It's my opinion that the club (Fenty) has never really sought out investment other than giving it occasional lip service in the Telegraph.

I also believe that potential investors have been put off by the terms of any investment / Fenty's stranglehold on the club.

Of course this supposed lack of I interest from investors allows the Fenty sycophants to trot out the old "there's nobody out there who wants to invest".

Mike Parker of course is clear evidence that there are people in the town who would invest - maybe it's the terms of that investment that puts people off.

Quoted from Devonmatt

Indeed.  Tony Bloom has access to a lot more money than either MP or JF IMHO.  As for the ground, I think their relocation has only come about after a decade of fight from the club, fans (en mass) and local celebrities.  I haven't seen too much help for JF from all the knockers   in driving through the move to a new stadium.

It's quite clear that Fenty fears an alternative backer. The Mike Parker situation does not sit well with him.

Also interesting that he called himself 'Billy No Mates' last night... Not true though, he seemed to have plenty of sycophantic mates in the room.

Who knows Quagmire but after the boardroom fiasco nothing would suprise me.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Also interesting that he called himself 'Billy No Mates' last night... Not true though, he seemed to have plenty of sycophantic mates in the room.

What about the most obvious one of all - Parker himself ?
It wasn't a case of "Mike and I are supporting the club by ourselves" was it ?

Quoted from Mariner_501

If we're losing such money and are still constantly sh!t then it shows just how awful we are when many teams have much lower crowds, lower income, operate on lower budgets, don't lose as much money as us yet are still a division or two higher than us.

WHS - I do believe that unless GTFC start to cut there cloth accordingley, we will never have a sucessful team again.

Maybe it all comes down to the timing of when you make cuts though.

I don't want to sound like a cracked record but after relegation Fenty trusted an inexperienced and unproven manager with a large budget.
Easy to say it was the wrong decision with hindsight but I did wonder if it was a mistake at the time.
As I've said before, we should have cut the budget and planned for a "rebuilding" year(bringing in youth/younger players) whilst we assessed Woods ability before we were confident he knew what he was doing to trust him with a massive budget for a promotion push the following year.

I guess after disappointment of relegation there was a lot of pressure to "bounce straight back" and get fans back on side, sell season tickets etc.
Did Fenty want to risk further unpopularity at the time by saying we were gonna try to find our feet in our first season in the BSP before "going for it" the following year ? I doubt it.

Of course it looks like a similar situation again this time, but somehow I've a lot more confidence in S&H than I did in Woods.

It's not an exact science but surely it's wiser to e.g. spend £1.2 milllion to finish in the playoffs then spend £1 million and finish 6th and achieve nothing.

Quoted from 1600

It's not an exact science but surely it's wiser to e.g. spend £1.2 milllion to finish in the playoffs then spend £1 million and finish 6th and achieve nothing.

No-one doubts Fenty's desire but in most businesses that isn't enough.

He works with the blinkers on. It's his way or the highway. Again, not wanting to repeat, but a good fish merchant does not necessarily make a good football club chairman.

Quoted from NorthLeedsMariner

WHS - I do believe that unless GTFC start to cut there cloth accordingley, we will never have a sucessful team again.

I concur.

What I don't quite follow is that SOME (not all) people that are complaining that we have made such huge losses are also the ones who accused Fenty of choosing the "cheap option".

Quoted from MuddyWaters

and then dared to advise Lincoln how not to go down.

To be fair though, that was an absolute masterstroke and was clearly intended to boost our finances with a local derby! Genius Fenty  

Quoted from tashee69

What I don't quite follow is that SOME (not all) people that are complaining that we have made such huge losses are also the ones who accused Fenty of choosing the "cheap option".

There's a saying in business which is 'penny rich, pound thick' which sums up my personal view of Fenty.

Failing to have a business plan, failing to invest at the right times and in the right people etc are points that Fenty is guilty of.

Choosing the cheap option is different from choosing the most cost-effective option. Sometimes you have to speculate to accumulate. Surely you can see that replacing a successful Slade with Graham Rodger and replacing Newell with Neil Woods were wrong?????

Quoted from MuddyWaters

There's a saying in business which is 'penny rich, pound thick' which sums up my personal view of Fenty.

Failing to have a business plan, failing to invest at the right times and in the right people etc are points that Fenty is guilty of.

Choosing the cheap option is different from choosing the most cost-effective option. Sometimes you have to speculate to accumulate. Surely you can see that replacing a successful Slade with Graham Rodger and replacing Newell with Neil Woods were wrong?????

Couldn't agree more. Everybody was confused when Rodger was appointed especially after the comment by Fenty that everybody will be pleased. I can remember the Slade appointment though. Comments were made then about a cheap option, had a bit of success at Scarborough not done much elsewhere and there were jokes about the headmaster.

Quoted from tashee69

Maidstone was, as was Aldershot. Look at Leicester, big city, centrally located, look at Grimsby, small town, edge of nowhere, no famous ex players to also help out. IF somebodt would have bailed us out then it may have worked well but I do believe it would still have gone to the creditors voting. You'll have to forgive me it is over 20 years since i worked in liquidations, voluntary arrangements and other types of insolvency. We didnt deal with many Admins and i was just a young pup learning the job.

Up until ITV digital administration was a rarity, Aldershot went bust in the early 80's and Maidstone in the early 90's. Now administration is 10 a penny. I don't know the circumstances of the previous two clubs, what assests they had the time, etc. But Rotherham are a closer match to Town, but no longer own their own ground (although their council are building them one) Their are many more clubs in the league that go through admin and survive. I'm not advocating admin, I wish the penalties were higher, I'm was merely highlighting that we have been effectively hamstrung by paying our debts, and not incesantly spending money on players we couldn't afford.

I think the FL accept admin better than BSP. If we were to go into admin, I would far rather we be in the League for sure.

It appears that for whatever reason Fenty & Parker just pump money into the bottomless pit,in a bid to cure all ill's instead of solving the reasons why the business model is broke.
It's all ok as long as they are able to put in the money,the problems will hit when they don't.

Quoted from Helgy

It appears that for whatever reason Fenty & Parker just pump money into the bottomless pit,in a bid to cure all ill's instead of solving the reasons why the business model is broke.
It's all ok as long as they are able to put in the money,the problems will hit when they don't.

Without going in to what I do for a living, it's plain to see that the business plan sits in the 6 inch vacuum between Fenty's ears.

Quoted from aldi_01

May be this is where people will realise that actually fenty has done as much bad for this club as he has good. One could argue that if we go up within three years then it has helped and gets you back to where the club needs to be, if it doesn't then who knows. One thing is for sure, we are not by any means the only club in this situation, one could argue that in fact that the large majority of teams are and some far far worse than town.

I know the guy came in and 'saved' us but I'm finding it very hard now to convince even myself that he has done any good for this club.

He could have done what others have done at the helm of other clubs and just walked away when we got relegated, I admire him for sticking around and pumping into the club his own personal money, and he was roundly clapped last night for it.
He is the first to admit his errors, and I for one am still watching football at BP (low as it might be) because of his support long may it continue, as he said last night when he looks over his shoulder there is no body there to take the reigns

Quoted from Garth

[/b]

He could have done what others have done at the helm of other clubs and just walked away when we got relegated, I admire him for sticking around and pumping into the club his own personal money, and he was roundly clapped last night for it.
He is the first to admit his errors, and I for one am still watching football at BP (low as it might be) because of his support long may it continue, as he said last night when he looks over his shoulder there is no body there to take the reigns

It's pretty straightforward.

Who in their right mind would pay the approx £4 million it would take to pay off Fenty and the bank debt and take over a club in the BSP?

Sometimes I think people live in cloud cuckoo land FFS.

Quoted from Garth

as he said last night when he looks over his shoulder there is no body there to take the reigns

And people like you fall for it hook, line and sinker - and then help to spread this utter tripe that without him there wouldn't be a club.

How can he say that there is nobody out there wanting to take over when Mike Parker is sat out there and has increased his shareholding?  He isn't doing that for a laugh!

The man has driven the club into the ground over the last 10 years - not many people are going to be beating a path to his door to take over a club on its last legs.

How on earth anybody can applaud the man is beyond belief - all it does is to strengthen the belief in his own mind that he is supported by the fans and is doing a good job, when in reality it is the exact opposite.

only when fenty walks away and writes off his "benign friendly debt" will we move forward, until then we're screwed

To be fair, under Fenty's reign and under previous boards plenty of people have put money forward for an active part in the club, prepared to put money in etc but some were shunned and some were simply asked to give their money but nothing else, no board place and no say in the running of the club...now would you just hand over a 7 figure sum to a business/club for nothing in return when there are people on the board who have offered the club nothing apart from a few pennies in comparison and have held a board place and done intercourse all...some not even turning up to games etc...

As most of posters know I read the Fishy forum daily.  This thread beats me as to some of the comments from the John knockers. Why were'nt you people at the forum last night putting your points to John and the Managers face to face. He is very approachable and will give you a straight answer to your questions. A positive feeling came out of the forum for me and I think we can look forward to better times ahead. Onwards and upwards. Our club needs all of our support.  UTM!  

Quoted from sonik

Why were'nt you people at the forum last night putting your points to John and the Managers face to face.  

i guess i'd classify myself as a "john knocker" so i'll answer that for what it's worth. a 5 hour round trip on a school night simply isn't possible. still, i'm chuffed to bits to hear about the positive feeling around the place, that should sort out years of mismanagement which has brought the club to it's knees

on a further note, does anyone have a link to recent years club accounts because the link i'd bookmarked no longer works? perhaps the person who definitely didn't remove the connell article also hasn't removed the accounts link too

Quoted from sonik

As most of posters know I read the Fishy forum daily.  This thread beats me as to some of the comments from the John knockers. Why were'nt you people at the forum last night putting your points to John and the Managers face to face. He is very approachable and will give you a straight answer to your questions. A positive feeling came out of the forum for me and I think we can look forward to better times ahead. Onwards and upwards. Our club needs all of our support.  UTM!  

I agree with your comments, I had a very public disagreement back in 2006, which got well out of hand tbh, though he never held it against me and in 2008 during the charity bike ride to Lincoln myself and others had a really good chat about the event, the match and the season in general.

I am sure John will agree he has made mistakes and some people have really taken advantage (we all know the names) but the fact is he has kept our club running.

If we can gain promotion I honestly feel investors could start coming out of the wood work especially if the council decided to show more support for the local team!

Quoted from sonik

As most of posters know I read the Fishy forum daily.  This thread beats me as to some of the comments from the John knockers. Why were'nt you people at the forum last night putting your points to John and the Managers face to face. He is very approachable and will give you a straight answer to your questions. A positive feeling came out of the forum for me and I think we can look forward to better times ahead. Onwards and upwards. Our club needs all of our support.  UTM!  

This thread beats you as to some of the negative comments does it?

Have you noticed we are non league with debts piling up year on year.

Your brother has a stranglehold on the club that only a very rich,or several very rich, men can break.

Apart from that lets all hail Fenty,the chairman who destroyed a 100 year history of league football and has allowed Blundell Park to become a shadow of its former self (when is that front facade going to be cleaned?) and managed to spend millions? of pounds on planning for a new stadium that is still a pipedream.

The reason a lot of "Fenty haters" were not at the meeting is that we know it is a waste of time.Our beloved club has become hijacked by a man who's ego has allowed him to fall out with everyone from managers to media,and who oversaw the laughable decision to give the Mariners fans worldwide, the option of coverage from Compass FM,a station whos football knowledge can be written on the back of a postage stamp.

I could go on,but I assume you get my drift?

He has been a disaster and the quicker he goes the better.

Trouble is he has got us over a barrel now hasn't he?

I take comfort in the fact that he wont be involved with the club forever,although I am pretty sure it will end in a bloodbath and tears,and the club may yet have to go back a step or two more before rising again.

A lot of us dyed in the wool Mariners fans have had our love of the club tested beyond breaking point by this chairman and his idiotic decisions,but born a Mariner always a Mariner as they say and I will keep having to tell myself to support the team and try to ignore the shortcomings in the boardroom but God it is difficult at the moment.

I do post regularly by the way but not under this name!

surely we can't spend 900k even if we go up? unless we sell Hearn for 300k  

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

This thread beats you as to some of the negative comments does it?

Have you noticed we are non league with debts piling up year on year.

Your brother has a stranglehold on the club that only a very rich,or several very rich, men can break.

Apart from that lets all hail Fenty,the chairman who destroyed a 100 year history of league football and has allowed Blundell Park to become a shadow of its former self (when is that front facade going to be cleaned?) and managed to spend millions? of pounds on planning for a new stadium that is still a pipedream.

The reason a lot of "Fenty haters" were not at the meeting is that we know it is a waste of time.Our beloved club has become hijacked by a man who's ego has allowed him to fall out with everyone from managers to media,and who oversaw the laughable decision to give the Mariners fans worldwide, the option of coverage from Compass FM,a station whos football knowledge can be written on the back of a postage stamp.

I could go on,but I assume you get my drift?

He has been a disaster and the quicker he goes the better.

Trouble is he has got us over a barrel now hasn't he?

I take comfort in the fact that he wont be involved with the club forever,although I am pretty sure it will end in a bloodbath and tears,and the club may yet have to go back a step or two more before rising again.

A lot of us dyed in the wool Mariners fans have had our love of the club tested beyond breaking point by this chairman and his idiotic decisions,but born a Mariner always a Mariner as they say and I will keep having to tell myself to support the team and try to ignore the shortcomings in the boardroom but God it is difficult at the moment.

I do post regularly by the way but not under this name!

Well whoever it is, I bloody wish you went last night I would of even turned down Eastenders

I respect everyones opinions but on reflection think sonik makes a good point we should look to the future.
It's early days but there are some VERY positive signs coming out of BP with these managers.
I like my moan as much as anyone but I also know it's wasted effort to some extent because the club will probably do it's own thing anyway. Que Sera !
Yes I know I'm a hippocrite but I say let's try not dig up old frustrations - past is past, we can moan but we can't change it.
Don't mean to be patronising but if we can't be positive THIS pre-season when there's plenty to be positive about, maybe we need to take a look in the mirror at ourselves.

UTM.

Quoted from 1600

I respect everyones opinions but on reflection think sonik makes a good point we should look to the future.
It's early days but there are some VERY positive signs coming out of BP with these managers.
I like my moan as much as anyone but I also know it's wasted effort to some extent because the club will probably do it's own thing anyway. Que Sera !
Yes I know I'm a hippocrite but I say let's try not dig up old frustrations - past is past, we can moan but we can't change it.
Don't mean to be patronising but if we can't be positive THIS pre-season when there's plenty to be positive about, maybe we need to take a look in the mirror at ourselves.

UTM.

WHS.  

Yes, Fenty did save us from admin and possible liquidation.
Yes, He has also "ran the club into the ground".

BUT

Would you rather have a club in the BSP or no club at all?

Fenty isn't the greatest chairman but I admire him for sticking around and putting his own money in.

Thanks sonik but I wonder could you also ask John if he's decided to spend huge amounts on the playing budget not to hold back later in January if we're up there challenging ?
I would appreciate it.  

PS I did ask questions last night.

Again, I would class myself as a John knocker, and whilst Oban sure he has the best intensions go the club, as a fan we seem to have wasted more money whilst trying to save and the club has gone into a massive decline.

As for the fans forum, whilst the club mean a lot travelling over an hour on school night and going and not guaranteeing (sp?) that my questing will get asked just isn't sensible for me, and after previous fans forums where debates about flipping burgers and not so important things are discussed at length, I'll give it a miss. I'm still yet to see the benefit of them too. People say he is a man of the fans etc yet he never seems to take on board what is said, may be why he got into politics perhaps.

Quoted from Townfantom

Yes, Fenty did save us from admin and possible liquidation.
Yes, He has also "ran the club into the ground".

BUT

Would you rather have a club in the BSP or no club at all?

Fenty isn't the greatest chairman but I admire him for sticking around and putting his own money in.

The money that he has put in is in direct relation to the money that he has cost the club due to his total mismanagement.

And why do people continue with this rubbish that without him there wouldn't be a club to support? It's simply propaganda perpetuated by Fenty to try and rally some support, and the lemmings all fall for it.

10 years of mismanagement and a second consecutive year of near million pound losses and we're expected to believe that the man who has brought us to this point is the same man who will get us out of it when the evidence is abundantly clear that he isn't capable of doing it.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

This thread beats you as to some of the negative comments does it?

Have you noticed we are non league with debts piling up year on year.

Your brother has a stranglehold on the club that only a very rich,or several very rich, men can break.

Apart from that lets all hail Fenty,the chairman who destroyed a 100 year history of league football and has allowed Blundell Park to become a shadow of its former self (when is that front facade going to be cleaned?) and managed to spend millions? of pounds on planning for a new stadium that is still a pipedream.

The reason a lot of "Fenty haters" were not at the meeting is that we know it is a waste of time.Our beloved club has become hijacked by a man who's ego has allowed him to fall out with everyone from managers to media,and who oversaw the laughable decision to give the Mariners fans worldwide, the option of coverage from Compass FM,a station whos football knowledge can be written on the back of a postage stamp.

I could go on,but I assume you get my drift?

He has been a disaster and the quicker he goes the better.

Trouble is he has got us over a barrel now hasn't he?

I take comfort in the fact that he wont be involved with the club forever,although I am pretty sure it will end in a bloodbath and tears,and the club may yet have to go back a step or two more before rising again.

A lot of us dyed in the wool Mariners fans have had our love of the club tested beyond breaking point by this chairman and his idiotic decisions,but born a Mariner always a Mariner as they say and I will keep having to tell myself to support the team and try to ignore the shortcomings in the boardroom but God it is difficult at the moment.

I do post regularly by the way but not under this name!

WHS with knobs on!!

Quoted from Quagmire

The money that he has put in is in direct relation to the money that he has cost the club due to his total mismanagement.

And why do people continue with this rubbish that without him there wouldn't be a club to support? It's simply propaganda perpetuated by Fenty to try and rally some support, and the lemmings all fall for it.

10 years of mismanagement and a second consecutive year of near million pound losses and we're expected to believe that the man who has brought us to this point is the same man who will get us out of it when the evidence is abundantly clear that he isn't capable of doing it.

The club paid the debt back and cut it's cloth accordingly by bringing in the dregs of the football league.  The money JF has put into the club is down to paying off a multitude of crap managers, dodgy players and coach drivers who are bad luck.  He should hold his hands up to that and convert that benign debt into shares.

You can't knock JF for his love for the club or the hard work he does and the hours he spends working for the club.  It's just so painful that he has got it so wrong, that he hasn't been imaginative enough to think out side the box and take us forward up to now.  I say now because JF may have pulled the rabbit out of the hat with the new managers, it just depends on JF's patience with them and if he has learned anything from being in the hot seat.  One thing is for sure, he needs help and Mike Parker needs to be back on the board, new board members need bringing in.  Chapman and Elsom need to raise their profile or leave because they have been ever present in this decline and seem to offer nothing.

JF could end up being the greatest Chairman of all Town history if he gets it right, promotion and a new stadium in town.  It's going to take a lot of hard work, money and dash of luck.

This thread makes an interesting read in some respects, but I can't help but thinking, the season hasn't even started yet and there are already
those on board, (no pun there), having a go.

In respect to smaller, less supported clubs making good headway, well, they either have considerable backing - Accrington springs to mind - or they use the selling-club mentality as an integral part of the clubs survival, which nearly all clubs have to do, to subsidise lack of proceeds on the gate or balance books etc. Despite what the average supporter thinks, I see this as a fact of football - just look what happened at Watford earlier this summer - players come and go, are offered more money, a career move or just geographical; (there seems a lot of the latter these days in lower league football which maybe reflects why they're not always committed and perhaps want the cushier option when it comes to travelling - who wouldn't these days with the madness on the roads?).

I think Town need to be given a chance. It's obvious that they're trying to bring in hungrier, younger players who want success and it may be that some of these will bring in much needed revenue in the future. This is an area where the club seem to have been lacking for many years - bringing youth through 'regularly' and reaping the rewards from it.

The last thing the club needs is for supporters to be getting on players/clubs backs early days because of expectation. Did anyone read this article? Sorry, but I personally don't have any sympathy at international level - they are paid very nicely indeed and if they can't take the flack then go and work in the Clangers soup kitchen. Still worth a read though and you should get my point:-

http://www.caughtoffside.com/2.....y-for-their-country/

Quoted from cleedale

This thread makes an interesting read in some respects, but I can't help but thinking, the season hasn't even started yet and there are already
those on board, (no pun there), having a go.

I don't believe I am having a go - merely pointing out that the Chairman has taken us into footballing oblivion and is most of the way to putting us out of business financially as well.

It's now getting to the stage where only his brother (Sonik) and the sycophantic few at the forum will stick up for him.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

I don't believe I am having a go - merely pointing out that the Chairman has taken us into footballing oblivion and is most of the way to putting us out of business financially as well.

It's now getting to the stage where only his brother (Sonik) and the sycophantic few at the forum will stick up for him.

No, nothing personal - football can be a very emotional roller-coaster for a lot of supporters and I guess we never ever get to hear the other half of it most of the time.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

I don't believe I am having a go - merely pointing out that the Chairman has taken us into footballing oblivion and is most of the way to putting us out of business financially as well.

It's now getting to the stage where only his brother (Sonik) and the sycophantic few at the forum will stick up for him.

Not really.  People are just fed up of hearing the same old views.  You have a opinion which is your choice. End of!  UTM!!

Quoted from MuddyWaters

I don't believe I am having a go - merely pointing out that the Chairman has taken us into footballing oblivion and is most of the way to putting us out of business financially as well.

It's now getting to the stage where only his brother (Sonik) and the sycophantic few at the forum will stick up for him.

I respect your views but to say anyone who doesn't take your stance is a 'sycophant' just makes me lose that little bit of respect.

Quoted from upthestripes

I respect your views but to say anyone who doesn't take your stance is a 'sycophant' just makes me lose that little bit of respect.

Well said
When it comes to Fenty there are a few that think the sun shines out of his nether regions......there are a few more that think he's the devil and has never done anything right in his life and some daft level headed people who are in the middle. The two groups of extremes appear to think that anybody that doesnt agree with them is a fool/wears rose tinted specs or why dont you put the money in he has thrown at them.
That last word beginning with R is something all posters should use when replying whether they agree with them or not

Quoted from sonik

Not really.  People are just fed up of hearing the same old views.  You have a opinion which is your choice. End of!  UTM!!

I get the fact you're defending your brother but to say people are tired of hearing the same old views could quite easily be countered by saying, some people are tired of witnessing the same old mistakes, same old rubbish, same old lack of professionalism, same old excuses, etc...

Now ask yourself, has your brother really been successful as chairman? has the club progressed, either on the pitch or off it? Now like I hav said before, your brother has put the money in and stood by the club (so far) despite the heavy losses but these losses hav been accelerated by his poor management... I appreciate that he is a genuine fan and wants success for the club but so was NW and your brother didn't waste much time disposing of him....

Quoted from sonik

Not really.  People are just fed up of hearing the same old views.  You have a opinion which is your choice. End of!  UTM!!

Were fed up with having the same old chairman who has taken the club into the abyss of non league.I for one will never forgive him for that,neither have i a shred of confidence that he will be able to turn it round.

He might get lucky with 2 managers who seem to know what they are doing,but that is the law of averages.

Quoted from cleedale

This thread makes an interesting read in some respects, but I can't help but thinking, the season hasn't even started yet and there are already
those on board, (no pun there), having a go.  

There's never a good time to question the running of the club. If you do so during the season you're accused of being negative, that you're trying to burst the Chairman's positivity bubble, and that everybody should be pulling in the same direction blah blah blah.

And then if you question the running of the club during the summer you get the same accusations thrown at you, with the usual cries that people should shut up as a ball hasn't even been kicked yet.

Sonik says people are bored with the same old same old from the 'John knockers' but fans are also 'bored' of the direction and general mismanagement of the club.

Fans should be questioning the general running of the club when it's predicted we will lose nearly a million pounds for the second year running. The Chairman's budget tends to be overly optimistic most seasons so a bad start and lower than expected gates would make the predicted loss evenworse than first feared.

What is the longer term plan to get us out of this mess and stop us being so dependant upon Fenty and Parker??

Quoted from mick the mariner

He might get lucky with 2 managers who seem to know what they are doing,but that is the law of averages.

That says it for me, shortarse and shoutyface weren't his first choice or even second choice. IMO he has got lucky with a pair of managers who on the face of it seem to be taking us in the right direction. I like the type of player we are bringing in, the wage structure with more emphasis on results bonuses, the hard working principles and the "positive" vibes coming out of BP and the squad.

For the record i don't think a pre-season fans forum is the right place to vent years and years of built up frustration of the mis-management the club has suffered. I don't think its fair to lay that on the new managers who have no blame and desperately need a clean slate to achieve anything like success. Possibly an end of season fans forum or the agm is a better oppurtunity, if you're invited/allowed in of course!

Quoted from Quagmire

There's never a good time to question the running of the club. If you do so during the season you're accused of being negative, that you're trying to burst the Chairman's positivity bubble, and that everybody should be pulling in the same direction blah blah blah.

And then if you question the running of the club during the summer you get the same accusations thrown at you, with the usual cries that people should shut up as a ball hasn't even been kicked yet.

I know exactly what you mean and for some there's never a good time to criticize.
But unless it affects the club going forward, I'm trying to stop myself dragging up the past when there's a clean slate.

Quoted from Quagmire

Fans should be questioning the general running of the club when it's predicted we will lose nearly a million pounds for the second year running. The Chairman's budget tends to be overly optimistic most seasons so a bad start and lower than expected gates would make the predicted loss evenworse than first feared.

The way I see it is this....
We've got a budget that gives us a shot at promotion and even adds to our financial difficulties but in a way we have little choice because we need to be competitive to get out of the BSP.
That's why the Connell thing disappointed me but hey, I won't go there....

Will the budget be competitive enough ?
Time will tell, but dragging up the past isn't gonna help get us out any more than positive thinking will.
I say let's focus on the decisions we need to take to get out of this league.

Quoted from Quagmire

What is the longer term plan to get us out of this mess and stop us being so dependant upon Fenty and Parker??

Not sure about ownership but the plan is promotion + new stadium  ?

Quoted from mick the mariner

Were fed up with having the same old chairman who has taken the club into the abyss of non league.I for one will never forgive him for that,neither have i a shred of confidence that he will be able to turn it round.

He might get lucky with 2 managers who seem to know what they are doing,but that is the law of averages.

not defening jf here but . what u r saying is that the previous managers he has picked was his fault , but with these 2 if these 2 suceed he was lucky

[quote=3362]

This thread beats you as to some of the negative comments does it?

Have you noticed we are non league with debts piling up year on year.

Your brother has a stranglehold on the club that only a very rich,or several very rich, men can break.

Apart from that lets all hail Fenty,the chairman who destroyed a 100 year history of league football and has allowed Blundell Park to become a shadow of its former self (when is that front facade going to be cleaned?) and managed to spend millions? of pounds on planning for a new stadium that is still a pipedream.

The reason a lot of "Fenty haters" were not at the meeting is that we know it is a waste of time.Our beloved club has become hijacked by a man who's ego has allowed him to fall out with everyone from managers to media,and who oversaw the laughable decision to give the Mariners fans worldwide, the option of coverage from Compass FM,a station whos football knowledge can be written on the back of a postage stamp.

I could go on,but I assume you get my drift?

He has been a disaster and the quicker he goes the better.

Trouble is he has got us over a barrel now hasn't he?

I take comfort in the fact that he wont be involved with the club forever,although I am pretty sure it will end in a bloodbath and tears,and the club may yet have to go back a step or two more before rising again.

A lot of us dyed in the wool Mariners fans have had our love of the club tested beyond breaking point by this chairman and his idiotic decisions,but born a Mariner always a Mariner as they say and I will keep having to tell myself to support the team and try to ignore the shortcomings in the boardroom but God it is difficult at the moment.

I do post regularly by the way but not under this name![/quote]



Why ?

Quoted from 0ld timer

not defening jf here but . what u r saying is that the previous managers he has picked was his fault , but with these 2 if these 2 suceed he was lucky

Was Slade a failure? See my thread above. There are people that are so Pro & Anti Fenty that they have memory loss when it comes to history.

Quoted from tashee69

Was Slade a failure? See my thread above. There are people that are so Pro & Anti Fenty that they have memory loss when it comes to history.

well put  

Quoted from 0ld timer

not defening jf here but . what u r saying is that the previous managers he has picked was his fault , but with these 2 if these 2 suceed he was lucky

He got lucky before then decided Slade wasn't worthy of an extra £8k....defies logic really.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

He got lucky before then decided Slade wasn't worthy of an extra £8k....defies logic really.

Does that mean he's been unlucky in his other appointments then ?!

Quoted from upthestripes

I respect your views but to say anyone who doesn't take your stance is a 'sycophant' just makes me lose that little bit of respect.

Well said and exactly the point i was going to make but you beat me to it.The word "sycophant" has been used about three times in this thread and the phrase "living in cloud cuckoo land" has also been trotted out about anyone who even comes close to defending JF.

Being anti JF and railing against his reign doesn't make you righteous and everyone elses views sycophantic and stupid.

For the record,i also think JF's watch has been a disaster and that's something he admits himself but he didn't make Buckley suddenly become a crap manager and tell Newell to buy a load of dross players and manage them in a clueless way.Neither did he make Proudlock miss a last minute pen and the team throw away vital leads which would probably have kept us up.

The Woods appointment was a big mistake though.We needed someone more experienced to keep us in the league,so there is a lot to blame Fenty for but it's not all his fault.

I apologise to anyone offended by the word 'sycophant' but I just happen to be pretty appalled by the current state of the club that I have supported for over 40 years.

Quoted from Quagmire

The money that he has put in is in direct relation to the money that he has cost the club due to his total mismanagement.

And why do people continue with this rubbish that without him there wouldn't be a club to support? It's simply propaganda perpetuated by Fenty to try and rally some support, and the lemmings all fall for it.

10 years of mismanagement and a second consecutive year of near million pound losses and we're expected to believe that the man who has brought us to this point is the same man who will get us out of it when the evidence is abundantly clear that he isn't capable of doing it.

What a daft comment to make, total fiction

IMO the club will never go forward with him a chairman and the sooner he is gone the better. The damage he has inflicted on the club is massive and he may well leave us bankrupt. The fact that town fans can applaud him makes me feel sick!

Who knows you could be proved right but I wouldn't take a round of applause to heart.
People generally like to look up to people that are representatives of what they associate themselves with - in this case a love and passion for GTFC.

If JF is such a massive Town fan why doesnt he simply write off the loans and sell the Club to Parker for £1 thus ensuring the Football Club rid itself of the main reason ie John Fenty that it finds itself outside the Football League looking in?I think that is because he isnt such a massive Town fan and in fact he is a cold calculating buisnessman who somehow thinks he can gain via a new ground for the football Club.John Fenty has been a total disaster for GTFC and the sooner he goes the quicker we will recover our league status even the Connel transfer shows he still hasnt learned to do anything in a dignified manner SHAME ON HIM.UTM




FENTY OUT

Because he wants a legacy...ie new ground. He'll never go until that's in place. It's not about the club.

Quoted from marinerjase

Because he wants a legacy...ie new ground. He'll never go until that's in place. It's not about the club.

He already has a legacy Jase the most unsuccessful Chairman in Grimsby Town FC history.

Quoted from 1mickylyons

If JF is such a massive Town fan why doesnt he simply write off the loans and sell the Club to Parker for £1 thus ensuring the Football Club rid itself of the main reason ie John Fenty that it finds itself outside the Football League looking in?I think that is because he isnt such a massive Town fan and in fact he is a cold calculating buisnessman who somehow thinks he can gain via a new ground for the football Club.John Fenty has been a total disaster for GTFC and the sooner he goes the quicker we will recover our league status even the Connel transfer shows he still hasnt learned to do anything in a dignified manner SHAME ON HIM.UTM

Parker MAY not want to buy the club outright. Not many football clubs make profits. Would he really want to the sole investor in a company that is going to make a loss nearly every year. There is also the fact that more chairmen are classed as villains rather than heroes so if it was me, i'd want to stay out of the firing line



FENTY OUT

Quoted from tashee69

A chairman is only a custodian of the Club and unfortunately at times they get things wrong and football clubs get relegated i accept that but weve had mistake after mistake after mistake.............................................................

Quoted from 1mickylyons

If JF is such a massive Town fan why doesnt he simply write off the loans and sell the Club to Parker for £1 thus ensuring the Football Club rid itself of the main reason ie John Fenty that it finds itself outside the Football League looking in?I think that is because he isnt such a massive Town fan and in fact he is a cold calculating buisnessman who somehow thinks he can gain via a new ground for the football Club.John Fenty has been a total disaster for GTFC and the sooner he goes the quicker we will recover our league status even the Connel transfer shows he still hasnt learned to do anything in a dignified manner SHAME ON HIM.UTM




FENTY OUT

Well said that man.

I have mentioned this before that he hoped to make a killing with the new ground/sale of the old one,but of course the Fentyites wont have it.

Unfortunately for him he has made such an almighty mess of it he is now between a rock and a hard place.

His only hope (from his point of view) is to carry on regardless,hope the new managers give him some breathing space and the new stadium does somehow,somewhere become reality.

Unless there is a real takeover battle it seems we are stuck with him...  

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Well said that man.

I have mentioned this before that he hoped to make a killing with the new ground/sale of the old one,but of course the Fentyites wont have it.
Unfortunately for him he has made such an almighty mess of it he is now between a rock and a hard place.

His only hope (from his point of view) is to carry on regardless,hope the new managers give him some breathing space and the new stadium does somehow,somewhere become reality.

Unless there is a real takeover battle it seems we are stuck with him...  

I am neither a Fentyite or wish to see him burned at the stake however I would ask you to explain how Fenty would benefit from the new ground/selling BP as I am too thick to see it?

Quoted from BIGChris

I am neither a Fentyite or wish to see him burned at the stake however I would ask you to explain how Fenty would benefit from the new ground/selling BP as I am too thick to see it?

Because it's such amazing prime real estate. Apparently Jude Law, Richard Branson and Morgan Freeman have already got their names down for flats - they're gonna do it like Highbury and leave the pitch as a sort of memorial garden.

Quoted from BIGChris

I am neither a Fentyite or wish to see him burned at the stake however I would ask you to explain how Fenty would benefit from the new ground/selling BP as I am too thick to see it?

I could be wrong then.

He must all along have wanted to waste millions (?) of pounds of his own money without any thought whatsoever how he might gain from it.

The man is a martyr!

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

I could be wrong then.

He must all along have wanted to waste millions (?) of pounds of his own money without any thought whatsoever how he might gain from it.

The man is a martyr!

I think it is more about legacy than making any profit, he does however have the club trousers down, greased and bent over a barrell with his 'benign' loans.

Simple question:

What's more important: What Fenty has done FOR the club or what he has done TO the club?

For me, he has nigh on killed it in both the football and financial sense.

Quoted from headingly_mariner

I think it is more about legacy than making any profit, he does however have the club trousers down, greased and bent over a barrell with his 'benign' loans.

To be fair he did say those loans would never put the club at risk in that infamous last interview with Burnsy.

Quoted from marinerjase

Because he wants a legacy...ie new ground. He'll never go until that's in place. It's not about the club.

Interesting comment but if it's not about the club(he said he wanted to make the club financially sustainable in the fans forum) then what do you think it's about ?

To be honest, I don't particularly trust him but it's very easy to think the worst too.

I still don't understand where the hell the money for a new stadium would come from.

A large wad of it should come from the council as it's certainly in the town's interest on several levels.

Quoted from 1600

To be fair he did say those loans would never put the club at risk in that infamous last interview with Burnsy.


Interesting comment but if it's not about the club(he said he wanted to make the club financially sustainable in the fans forum) then what do you think it's about ?

To be honest, I don't particularly trust him but it's very easy to think the worst too.

I still don't understand where the hell the money for a new stadium would come from.

Yeah but he still wants his money back, in theory it prevents anyone from ousting him as no one would be stupid enough to pay him off, he should write the loans off and fuckk off somewhere hot!

Quoted from headingly_mariner

Yeah but he still wants his money back, in theory it prevents anyone from ousting him as no one would be stupid enough to pay him off, he should write the loans off and fuckk off somewhere hot!

Good point.

He states that there isn't a queue of people waiting to take over. Could that be because of the sheer amount of dosh needed just to pay him off?

A bit of political spin there methinks!!

[quote=1122]

Good point.

He states that there isn't a queue of people waiting to take over. Could that be because of the sheer amount of dosh needed just to pay him off?

A bit of political spin there methinks!![/quote]


Or maybe a touch of reality. Mike Parker maybe in a position to buy JF out but he took himself off the board because he wanted those directors with the most invested to have the most say and it didn't seem to be happening soon enough for him. Apart from MP who else is there waiting in the wings ?