When Artell goes who do we want next. Would anyone want to come here in our position. I think we need an experienced manager a Steve Evans, Mick McCarthy no nonsense manager who knock some sense into our shambles.
Given that he still has the job following another disgusting performance shipping in more goals than we've ever known in such a short time it might and only might be a case of IF he goes.
You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
I'm somewhat taking the mick here but Gary Croft. Always seem to say what everyone's saying, intelligent, well-spoken bloke. I honestly think he'd be good at the job.
It would have to be SP. Another unknown would seal the deal and take us down, because they would be taken aback by how dreadful we are. SP would steady the ship with what we’ve got.
Very funny how 90% of this forum want Artell gone yet no on has a serious suggestion for a replacement.
I think it is far too late for a new man with only 15 games left. He would have to get to know the players and bring in his own staff all of which would have to be integrated into the club.
As I have already said, in other posts, I think Ben and Shaun are the best candidates for the job. They know the players and we need a steady ship. Their target is Mission Survival.
You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
Twice PH has got us back into the league and initially done well in League 2, and both times he has ended up at the Shrews. Both times we have nose dived.
His first replacement was Bignot and his second Artell.
There is a frightening similarity there with two delusional managers who talk a good game, but ultimately are fantasists.
After Bignot, we got Slade 2, Jolley and Holloway, plus various caretakers, so I don't want to even contemplate what will happen when Artell gets the boot, which surely he must.
I'm beginning to think this team is unmanageable, apart from with PH, who seems to know that the only way we can compete is with with a bunch of honest and organised triers, rather than trying to be the Brazil of the East coast.
He said we were spoiled and perhaps he was right, and understood that the Buckley days were no longer possible in this backwater of football.
I'm somewhat taking the mick here but Gary Croft. Always seem to say what everyone's saying, intelligent, well-spoken bloke. I honestly think he'd be good at the job.
I really don't care anymore. Whoever it is, history says he will be no better than what went before.
I'd like to see Artell canned tomorrow, simply for being a total fantasist, but have no idea who could replace him.
I am totally past caring to be honest.
Lost the Will to live !!! Me too next manager not a clue, Me i have 4 games down in my diary rest of season, see how it plays out. Going to work Monday with a brown paper bag over me head !! UTM
An Exile and Proud !! UTM Mariners Trust Life Member. In the words of my Uncle Fred "You can take the man outta of Grimsby BUT you can't take the Grimsby! Out the man!"
Very funny how 90% of this forum want Artell gone yet no on has a serious suggestion for a replacement.
I want Shaun and Ben they would slot straight in from day one. A large part of the job is managing people, young men many of them. We don't need to win a huge amount of games we need short term solution. While they steady the ship we can consider next season. Quite frankly they need to revisit their entire plans. But for now just do the right thing.
'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. ~ Alfred Lord Tennyson
There must be guys who have managed at a high level don’t need for money and have a big enough ego they want to show the world with a 15 game project they still have “it” and should gave been given the ManU/England job in their prime.
How the heck did Warnock keep Huddersfield up last year?
Not even sure who’s available any more. Let alone want the poisoned chalice. A quick google search would have me suggest Michael Appleton, Lee Johnson, Steven Schumacher or Alex neil. I somehow think we’d be punching well above our weight with any of those.
Derek Adams as mentioned yesterday is the one that predominantly jumps out of the page.
I said last night on another of the Artell out type threads that Derek Adams would be perfect.
Longer term someone like Darrell Clarke would be a great appointment.
The last manager we had born in Mansfield did okay. And give his tragic, personal circumstances he might jump at the opportunity to relocate to the East Midlands area.
Sir Alan offered his help so i would be banging on his door this morning begging him to be Director of football, let Buckley oversee the footballing side of the club and have Shaun Person & Ben Davies in the dugout until the end of the season
Need a complete rebuild in the summer, not many of the current squad are decent footballers so ship the lot out in the summer and start afresh
Like most of us I was desperate for Artell to succeed, but it just hasn't worked out.
I loved his philosophy but I never realised he was quite so, er unique.
I watched him yesterday and even when we were in the game and at one point well on top he spends 50% of the time not watching the game. Talking, berating or arguing with people in and around the dugout. He gets the players in a huddle when there is a break in play and treats it like a training session. At one point nobody seemed to want to resume the match and it is indicative of our complete lack of urgency and will to win.
Our recruitment under both Hurst and Artell has been very poor, and when we were crying out for a Waterfall type replacement we actually paid a fee for a very inexperienced and lightweight Blackpool fringe player who I think has been the worst.
There must be some sort of settlement clause in Artells contract, so we have to bite the bullet and let Pearson try to get us to safety and take the close season to reassess what we are doing wrong. The owners are finding out that football is such a unique industry and whatever they are hoping to achieve you simply cannot do it without extra money coming into the club otherwise you get the same result as Fenty but in a more caring way.
If we do end up in the NL I know a manager who has got promotion twice from that division and made the playoffs in all five full seasons he has managed there……..
If he goes (and I think he should as yesterday was beyond acceptable), we need someone who can inject some fire into bellies and get the players running through walls to stay up. That only need to be temporary as I don’t think it works long term, you need a bit more. Who this person is, intercourse knows, but we need to find them.
Batch, Crombie, Moore K, Wiggington, Cumming, Waters, Bonnyman, Ford, Emson, Drinkell, Whymark. Love you all, You are the reason I'm on here. You've had help from Todd, Handyside, Futcher P, Groves, Mendonca, Macca etc etc etc. Up The Mariners!!!!!!!!!
Not even sure who’s available any more. Let alone want the poisoned chalice. A quick google search would have me suggest Michael Appleton, Lee Johnson, Steven Schumacher or Alex neil. I somehow think we’d be punching well above our weight with any of those.
Derek Adams as mentioned yesterday is the one that predominantly jumps out of the page.
Like most of us I was desperate for Artell to succeed, but it just hasn't worked out.
I loved his philosophy but I never realised he was quite so, er unique.
I watched him yesterday and even when we were in the game and at one point well on top he spends 50% of the time not watching the game. Talking, berating or arguing with people in and around the dugout. He gets the players in a huddle when there is a break in play and treats it like a training session. At one point nobody seemed to want to resume the match and it is indicative of our complete lack of urgency and will to win.
Our recruitment under both Hurst and Artell has been very poor, and when we were crying out for a Waterfall type replacement we actually paid a fee for a very inexperienced and lightweight Blackpool fringe player who I think has been the worst.
There must be some sort of settlement clause in Artells contract, so we have to bite the bullet and let Pearson try to get us to safety and take the close season to reassess what we are doing wrong. The owners are finding out that football is such a unique industry and whatever they are hoping to achieve you simply cannot do it without extra money coming into the club otherwise you get the same result as Fenty but in a more caring way.
I mean, how he conducts himself on match days must be visible to the owners. They must know how people feel about that. It’s as embarrassing as the results and pathetic defending is humiliating.
Very funny how 90% of this forum want Artell gone yet no on has a serious suggestion for a replacement.
I find it’s the same with the owners too, having briefly looked at that thread.
It’s not hard to understand when things are going as badly as they have done recently, especially at home, that people get frustrated and angry, I count myself in that group.
In turn it’s not unreasonable that people want to see changes or at the very least assurances that we will be better. Football doesn’t work that way though and DA could tell us he’s figured it out and we’ll be winning games as of next week, all that is is a rope to hang himself with. No-one can guarantee if/when anything will change.
I said the same for 20 years when JF used to get slated for his managerial appointments, in that owners do not have a crystal ball that predicts the success of the next manager. They can only do so much in their thoroughness to identify who they believe is the right guy which is all just words, presentation and CVs, which as we know don’t always paint the picture of the future.
My needle is more towards the DA out and if he goes then SP and BD are my choice. I thought they took a balanced PH team and gave it a little more freedom to express going forward and was the tweak needed to get more points than we were getting. It wasn’t revolutionary but it moved our direction to a positive bearing and who knows how that might have progressed over time.
The reality is everyone on here could throw a name, sensible or other but no-one has a clue whether they’d do well or not, it just isn’t that simple. It’s why I close the fishy tab when I read some tool saying ‘I was right about Artell’ as though it’s a badge of honour and has the personal insight to know the success of who comes in.
Although I don’t see the frustration on the pitch as fans being very demanding, it’s not unreasonable to want to see the basics done to a half decent standard, I think the flak the owners are getting is unbelievable!! I love how everyone is spending their money for them as though they’re just a bottomless pit of cash. Perhaps all those laying into the owners have a whip round and buy the club themselves? Given the ease they seem to think doing the job comes with it shouldn’t be that hard…?
By definition, the out of work managers list isn’t particularly stellar at the minute. But Artell is statistically the worst Town manager of the 21st century and therefore probably of all time. It stands to reason that there has to be a better option out there somewhere.
Of those names that might be considered vaguely realistic, Derek Adams, Mark Bonner and Michael Appleton all have solid CVs and all would be new options since the last time we looked (or at least, were gainfully employed at the time).
Michael Flynn is another name I’ve seen mentioned. His record at Swindon and Walsall isn’t great, but he did get Newport out of a worse predicament than ours right now a few years back.
If we can’t tempt an experienced manager, and we may need to accept that we can’t, I still feel twisting on Pearson and Davies has to be a better option than sticking with Artell, who has made us unprecedentedly bad.
Like most of us I was desperate for Artell to succeed, but it just hasn't worked out.
I loved his philosophy but I never realised he was quite so, er unique.
I watched him yesterday and even when we were in the game and at one point well on top he spends 50% of the time not watching the game. Talking, berating or arguing with people in and around the dugout. He gets the players in a huddle when there is a break in play and treats it like a training session. At one point nobody seemed to want to resume the match and it is indicative of our complete lack of urgency and will to win.
Our recruitment under both Hurst and Artell has been very poor, and when we were crying out for a Waterfall type replacement we actually paid a fee for a very inexperienced and lightweight Blackpool fringe player who I think has been the worst.
There must be some sort of settlement clause in Artells contract, so we have to bite the bullet and let Pearson try to get us to safety and take the close season to reassess what we are doing wrong. The owners are finding out that football is such a unique industry and whatever they are hoping to achieve you simply cannot do it without extra money coming into the club otherwise you get the same result as Fenty but in a more caring way.
Genuine question, who is he arguing with? If it's the 4th official then presumably they all do that when it's going bad (and obviously it's going esp bad at the moment) so is that not just a symptom of how bad we are. Or is he arguing with others and if so who?
By definition, the out of work managers list isn’t particularly stellar at the minute. But Artell is statistically the worst Town manager of the 21st century and therefore probably of all time. It stands to reason that there has to be a better option out there somewhere.
Of those names that might be considered vaguely realistic, Derek Adams, Mark Bonner and Michael Appleton all have solid CVs and all would be new options since the last time we looked (or at least, were gainfully employed at the time).
Michael Flynn is another name I’ve seen mentioned. His record at Swindon and Walsall isn’t great, but he did get Newport out of a worse predicament than ours right now a few years back.
If we can’t tempt an experienced manager, and we may need to accept that we can’t, I still feel twisting on Pearson and Davies has to be a better option than sticking with Artell, who has made us unprecedentedly bad.
Adams & Flynn have both inherited clubs botton of L2 and steered them to safety.
Flynn did a remarkable job at Newport and Adams had Morecambe 22nd and 10 points clear of Stevenage who were bottom when COVID ended the season (it was the season when Bury had been expelled and we all knew 1 club were going down from the start of the season).
Flynn's results in staying up were more impressive, but Adams followed up survival with an unlikely promotion the following season.
Bonner inherited Cambridge in 16th place and 9 points clear of the bottom side (in the season when only 1 club was going down).
Genuine question, who is he arguing with? If it's the 4th official then presumably they all do that when it's going bad (and obviously it's going esp bad at the moment) so is that not just a symptom of how bad we are. Or is he arguing with others and if so who?
It must have been Black and White Bear who argues with anybody over everthing
AND sell some players for a bag of magic beans Then rub the lamp and get 3 wishes. UTM
An Exile and Proud !! UTM Mariners Trust Life Member. In the words of my Uncle Fred "You can take the man outta of Grimsby BUT you can't take the Grimsby! Out the man!"
Genuine question, who is he arguing with? If it's the 4th official then presumably they all do that when it's going bad (and obviously it's going esp bad at the moment) so is that not just a symptom of how bad we are. Or is he arguing with others and if so who?
I suspect it might be a bit random, but the ref had a strong word with him so it probably includes the 4th official. I'm all for passion but it is not a good look which won't have gone unnoticed.
Michael Duff - though not sure we'd be able to persuade him
I’d have him here in a heartbeat, but his last two jobs have been at the top-end of League One and the Championship. He’d have to be as mad as a bag of chips to want to come here in our current malaise.
Regrettably, I think that might well apply to any manager with a modicum of experience and repute. Forest Green manage to snag Cotterill, but I think geography played a big part in that one.
Any decent out of work managers currently living in the vicinity of NE Lincs?
I’d have him here in a heartbeat, but his last two jobs have been at the top-end of League One and the Championship. He’d have to be as mad as a bag of chips to want to come here in our current malaise.
Regrettably, I think that might well apply to any manager with a modicum of experience and repute. Forest Green manage to snag Cotterill, but I think geography played a big part in that one.
Any decent out of work managers currently living in the vicinity of NE Lincs?
I would think most out of work managers from the lower two leagues would jump at the chance of working here.
The only option realistically in our situation is SP and BD . Not enough time for fannying around choosing a replacement. SP always comes over far better than the loonybin in his interviews. If I was a player I know who I’d rather play for .
I watched a Crewe interview with him after they got relegated from league 1 out of curiosity . It was pretty similiar to the one's here now saying that he basically 'trusted the process ' and he would continue (they sacked him after 16 games without a win) with the grunts included . His recruitment was shocking in that season for them.
I never want anyone to lose their job , but I would be disappointed if the trigger wasn't pulled tomorrow - the owners are bright people and must be able to read the room .
I have never seen the fanbase so collectively united on the removal of a manager , that's saying something with the dross that has come before .
I watched a Crewe interview with him after they got relegated from league 1 out of curiosity . It was pretty similiar to the one's here now saying that he basically 'trusted the process ' and he would continue (they sacked him after 16 games without a win) with the grunts included . His recruitment was shocking in that season for them.
I never want anyone to lose their job , but I would be disappointed if the trigger wasn't pulled tomorrow - the owners are bright people and must be able to read the room .
I have never seen the fanbase so collectively united on the removal of a manager , that's saying something with the dross that has come before .
Strange how he mentioned in the interview that he got Crewe promoted and was manager of the season but forgot to mention he got them relegated as well.
I think the two most striking forms of dissatisfaction and anger shown on Saturday, were the ringing boos that echoed around the stadium with each pathetic goal we conceded -early doors again in two consecutive games, and, the amount of people who got up and walked out at 3-1 and 4-1 on Saturday. The sight and sound of that - no verbal abuse needed - should make any club owner take serious notice.
I think the two most striking forms of dissatisfaction and anger shown on Saturday, were the ringing boos that echoed around the stadium with each pathetic goal we conceded -early doors again in two consecutive games, and, the amount of people who got up and walked out at 3-1 and 4-1 on Saturday. The sight and sound of that - no verbal abuse needed - should make any club owner take serious notice.
We walked out at 4-1 - I take no pleasure from that but I'd rather do that than boo. The owners can't seriously expect people to carry on financing that shower of shite.
No they can’t. And I’m sure they don’t. Only question is - do they act decisively now (no real sign they are about to), or wait for another defeat with the clock ticking down and the risk of an even bigger supporter conflagration and desertion.
No they can’t. And I’m sure they don’t. Only question is - do they act decisively now (no real sign they are about to), or wait for another defeat with the clock ticking down and the risk of an even bigger supporter conflagration and desertion.
Totally agree, and in a way, I don’t think the Morecambe result is relevant because we’re only one more home capitulation away from a further meltdown.
The issue you will have is that if you want a new manager, it is a really awkward time to come in with what 15 games to go. People like Appleton need time, he has had a bad time since he left us, but did have us playing good football, but he was blessed with good loan players.
You need someone to come in, organise, have a playing style that is going to get you 5-6 wins - I would be looking at an experienced fire - fighting type of manager, that will put aside everything to keep you in the league.
I would at all costs avoid going with your previous two that took charge when Hurst left - Personally if they have anything about them they should be challenging Artell as part of their role, playing the critical friend - If they are not doing this they are part of the problem.
I would offer 100k to Duff until the end of the season - He does well, enjoys it, then he may well stay and he is a good manager.
Totally agree, and in a way, I don’t think the Morecambe result is relevant because we’re only one more home capitulation away from a further meltdown.
Michael Duff - though not sure we'd be able to persuade him
Ironically the Swansea fans were on Duff's back from the start and he was sacked after just twenty-one matches. Given time I'm sure he'd have done a good job there. And if 21 is far too few to judge on!!!
Totally agree, and in a way, I don’t think the Morecambe result is relevant because we’re only one more home capitulation away from a further meltdown.
As a long-suffering Town fan, I fully expect us to hold out for a battling draw against Morecambe to raise our hopes ahead of the FGR game...
Mad Gav might not keep us up,but it would be entertaining.
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day,teach a man to fish and you give him an excuse for him to escape from the wife and kids for the weekend and drink lots of beer.
When Artell goes who do we want next. Would anyone want to come here in our position. I think we need an experienced manager a Steve Evans, Mick McCarthy no nonsense manager who knock some sense into our shambles.
The issue you will have is that if you want a new manager, it is a really awkward time to come in with what 15 games to go. People like Appleton need time, he has had a bad time since he left us, but did have us playing good football, but he was blessed with good loan players.
You need someone to come in, organise, have a playing style that is going to get you 5-6 wins - I would be looking at an experienced fire - fighting type of manager, that will put aside everything to keep you in the league.
I would at all costs avoid going with your previous two that took charge when Hurst left - Personally if they have anything about them they should be challenging Artell as part of their role, playing the critical friend - If they are not doing this they are part of the problem.
I would offer 100k to Duff until the end of the season - He does well, enjoys it, then he may well stay and he is a good manager.
This in spades, we need a real experienced hand with a simple back to basics approach.
No more poundshop-pep approach just grit and dig deep.
I'd be super pleased if they threw money at someone to come on board for just 6 months.
Due to a crappy / corrupt HR, I am free. My coaching experience extends to primary Vietnamese students. If I can get them to pass and move, I feel I can do anything.
I might not be on to see replies as I need to work out my next moves. Will still be watching on Saturdays. In fact, as I have no work tomorrow, I could stay up for the Morecambe game.
The issue you will have is that if you want a new manager, it is a really awkward time to come in with what 15 games to go. People like Appleton need time, he has had a bad time since he left us, but did have us playing good football, but he was blessed with good loan players.
You need someone to come in, organise, have a playing style that is going to get you 5-6 wins - I would be looking at an experienced fire - fighting type of manager, that will put aside everything to keep you in the league.
I would at all costs avoid going with your previous two that took charge when Hurst left - Personally if they have anything about them they should be challenging Artell as part of their role, playing the critical friend - If they are not doing this they are part of the problem.
I would offer 100k to Duff until the end of the season - He does well, enjoys it, then he may well stay and he is a good manager.
Your wilingness to talk sense is always refreshing after that other Imps goading posts .
My thoughts are for a young manager of quality on an upward spiral. Not tainted with failure, and not a long- term unemployed manager. Someone showing potential from limited but key evidence.
We need someone with fire in their belly, trying to make their bones. Someone who can inspire our players to the best of their abilities.
Someone with only some success in his present position (maybe as a coach). He needs a first managerial role. I am sure such a person can be sourced with a thorough recruitment process. a Ipswich appointed a 36 year old coach from Man United. He is now going for 2 consecutive promotions and on track for a 100 points. Risk v reward. They took a calculated risk and it has paid dividends.
Another option is a proven young manager from lower down the pyramid. A manager who has demonstrated considerable success. The Gateshead manager was outstanding, achieving well beyond expectations. Before being head-hunted.
Just not an older manager with several flaws or failures already on his CV please.
You would hope this very thing is being lined-up behind the scenes in the event the owners are simply left with no choice but to initiate “plan B” (or is it “plan F”) after the weekend, which even the most optimistic Town fan would have to admit looks more likely than not.
I recognise that this sort of thing goes against the stated values of Jason Stockwood, but there’s little value in values when you’re staring at the apocalypse. You simply have to do whatever it takes so survive.
Just a thought; Adams signed Michee Efete before he was sacked by Ross County. Appreciate Efete was a free agent by the time that deal was done, but what are the chances Adams and the Club had recent dialogue?
Why is Derek Adams suddenly the flavour of the month? Do we know the full story with him, or are we just looking at the best bits like with the other DA?
Why is Derek Adams suddenly the flavour of the month? Do we know the full story with him, or are we just looking at the best bits like with the other DA?
Why is Derek Adams suddenly the flavour of the month? Do we know the full story with him, or are we just looking at the best bits like with the other DA?
Probably as simple as he’s very recently worked in this division, has done well in it previously and is definitely available right now. Frankly I’d take Gerry Adams at the minute, hardly like we could be any worse.
In terms of being on an upward trajectory and being able to implement a good brand of football in the longer term, I would go for Tommy Widdrington.
King's Lynn were awful in the National League prior to him taking over, he got them organised with a pragmatic approach, and they almost survived. Last season he had them playing some great stuff at the top of the National League North, but jumped shop towards the end of the season to manage relegation threatened Aldershot Town in the National League. He kept them up and his risk paid off. This season, Aldershot are doing very well. I haven't seen them play to comment on their style, but he's got the necessary fight and flexibility to try and utilise what we have before implementing a more attractive playing style next season.
I've spoken to Tommy a couple of times previously and he's an absolutely smashing bloke, he deals with the press and fans respectfully, and recent history suggests that he gets results.
In terms of being on an upward trajectory and being able to implement a good brand of football in the longer term, I would go for Tommy Widdrington.
King's Lynn were awful in the National League prior to him taking over, he got them organised with a pragmatic approach, and they almost survived. Last season he had them playing some great stuff at the top of the National League North, but jumped shop towards the end of the season to manage relegation threatened Aldershot Town in the National League. He kept them up and his risk paid off. This season, Aldershot are doing very well. I haven't seen them play to comment on their style, but he's got the necessary fight and flexibility to try and utilise what we have before implementing a more attractive playing style next season.
I've spoken to Tommy a couple of times previously and he's an absolutely smashing bloke, he deals with the press and fans respectfully, and recent history suggests that he gets results.
A question more than any sort of opinion -
Are we a decent prospect for an up and coming young manager with a recent record of sucess ?
Why is Derek Adams suddenly the flavour of the month? Do we know the full story with him, or are we just looking at the best bits like with the other DA?
Fair question. Adams has got 400+ more games under his belt, so there’s a bit more to go on. And there’s certainly more than one achievement in there.
Took Ross County from the Scottish Second Division to the SPL, and then finished 5th the next season. He also took them to the Scottish FA Cup final as a second tier club along the way.
Took Plymouth to the League Two play-offs in his first season, then won automatic promotion the following year, then finished 7th in League One.
He took over at Morecambe with the Shrimps bottom of the league with 13 points from 17 games. They were fourth from bottom when the season was stopped due to Covid, and then followed that up with winning the League Two play-offs in that fan-less season.
He left Morecambe that summer to take over at Bradford, where it didn’t quite work out, but he’s not the first and won’t be the last manager to suffer that fate at Valley Parade.
In the interest of balance; he did also get relegated from League One when back at Morecambe last season, but he had taken over the season before that when the club was in the relegation zone and had them finish 19th. When he left them again back in November, they were 2 points of the League Two play-offs with 2 games in hand.
You can argue that it hasn’t worked out for him most recently at Ross County as well, and you’d be right, but I think right now we desperately need an experienced manager to organise and discipline a horribly dysfunctional team, and Derek Adams looks to me about as good as anything we can realistically hope for.
In terms of being on an upward trajectory and being able to implement a good brand of football in the longer term, I would go for Tommy Widdrington.
King's Lynn were awful in the National League prior to him taking over, he got them organised with a pragmatic approach, and they almost survived. Last season he had them playing some great stuff at the top of the National League North, but jumped shop towards the end of the season to manage relegation threatened Aldershot Town in the National League. He kept them up and his risk paid off. This season, Aldershot are doing very well. I haven't seen them play to comment on their style, but he's got the necessary fight and flexibility to try and utilise what we have before implementing a more attractive playing style next season.
I've spoken to Tommy a couple of times previously and he's an absolutely smashing bloke, he deals with the press and fans respectfully, and recent history suggests that he gets results.
That’s also not the worst suggestion I’ve seen. Aldershot had a cracking cup run this season too, putting 7 past Swindon on their own turf (just think what they’d do to us!).
The main argument against is “why leave a secure job for this crock of shít”, but you’re right in that he did a very similar thing to join Aldershot in the first place. Not sure where he’s based, but we’re certainly closer to “home” and the club for whom he made the most appearances during his career.
Are we a decent prospect for an up and coming young manager with a recent record of sucess ?
If Artell was to be sacked now, I don't think you could say that our board are trigger happy, a quick glance through our results this year suggests it's gone pear shaped and change needs to happen. Looking further back at Hurst's reign shows evidence that the board do give managers time.
Widdrington is a late entrant to the world of football management, but he's been heavily involved in recruitment, scouting, coaching and as a Director of Football for a number of years previously. However, his last two roles have started with the club facing relegation from the National League. King's Lynn went down but their budget was tiny as they gave up the previous season when the leagues below curtailed due to Covid. He transformed them last season and they were in the top 2 when he left to manage Aldershot for the final 6 games. Aldershot currently occupy the last play-off place in the National League and King's Lynn occupy the final relegation spot in the league below.
In terms of what Poojah has just said about Aldershot having a good cup run this season, King's Lynn had a decent run in the FA Cup last season, holding Stevenage off for 45 minutes before they went through the gears in a few second half minutes.
Fair question. Adams has got 400+ more games under his belt, so there’s a bit more to go on. And there’s certainly more than one achievement in there.
Took Ross County from the Scottish Second Division to the SPL, and then finished 5th the next season. He also took them to the Scottish FA Cup final as a second tier club along the way.
Took Plymouth to the League Two play-offs in his first season, then won automatic promotion the following year, then finished 7th in League One.
He took over at Morecambe with the Shrimps bottom of the league with 13 points from 17 games. They were fourth from bottom when the season was stopped due to Covid, and then followed that up with winning the League Two play-offs in that fan-less season.
He left Morecambe that summer to take over at Bradford, where it didn’t quite work out, but he’s not the first and won’t be the last manager to suffer that fate at Valley Parade.
In the interest of balance; he did also get relegated from League One when back at Morecambe last season, but he had taken over the season before that when the club was in the relegation zone and had them finish 19th. When he left them again back in November, they were 2 points of the League Two play-offs with 2 games in hand.
You can argue that it hasn’t worked out for him most recently at Ross County as well, and you’d be right, but I think right now we desperately an experienced manager to organise and discipline a horribly dysfunctional team, and Derek Adams looks to me about as good as anything we can realistically hope for.
Watched full game of Town v Bournemouth during Buckley mk1 on YouTube the other day. Won 5-0 but nearly every goal kick was a hoof up the middle by Sherwood and a lot of the passing was woeful. Obvs Buckley did have us playing some good footy (I get the feeling JS is talking about this era) but total football it wasn't.
Watched full game of Town v Bournemouth during Buckley mk1 on YouTube the other day. Won 5-0 but nearly every goal kick was a hoof up the middle by Sherwood and a lot of the passing was woeful. Obvs Buckley did have us playing some good footy (I get the feeling JS is talking about this era) but total football it wasn't.
The thing is that under AB we had good footballers who could control the ball, pass accurately, move into space, make good decisions more often than not and hold up the ball when required. If you have players with that level of skill and vision you will get results whatever system you play.
Watched full game of Town v Bournemouth during Buckley mk1 on YouTube the other day. Won 5-0 but nearly every goal kick was a hoof up the middle by Sherwood and a lot of the passing was woeful. Obvs Buckley did have us playing some good footy (I get the feeling JS is talking about this era) but total football it wasn't.
All goal kicks were hoofs up the pitch until a couple of years ago. Now most goal kicks are passes between two defenders either side in a quest to 'play out from the back'. You even see it more often than not at Northern Premier level. I'd love to see another John Beck bunch of long ball mavericks who smash this uniform regime of football that all teams seem to do at the moment.
"Lovelly stuff! not my words but the words of Shakin Stevens."
I have a new concept it’s called The Winning Way . I don’t give a flying F whether we go long ,play boring tepid football or even finish the game with 20% possession . I just want us to win football matches and stay in this league. Whether you like him or not Steve Evans will always be the great missed opportunity for this football club.
I have a new concept it’s called The Winning Way . I don’t give a flying F whether we go long ,play boring tepid football or even finish the game with 20% possession . I just want us to win football matches and stay in this league. Whether you like him or not Steve Evans will always be the great missed opportunity for this football club.
You may feel this way but a very vocal part of the support does not.
We had a manager who got a fairly limited team to the play off final but had suffered huge abuse all season because of his approach and tactics. You could argue he played a system suited to his players and it worked like a charm, something clearly lacking from the current set up.
Even today some will have you believe Russel Slade is the antichrist.
(I accept without argument that his second period was horrible)
Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
I've supported Town since the late 80's and there's very little in there of nice passing football beyond the late 1990's. Don't get me wrong, that's a golden era for the club. But it's 25 years ago. The game has completely moved on and any side who set up like that now would get destroyed.
2000 onwards:
Lennie Lawrence. Percentages football. First thing he did was work on the fact we lacked athleticism.
Paul Groves. More football based but hardly tika-taka. Obsessed with a big man up top.
Nicky Law - intercourse knows. Just excrement.
Russell Slade - Absolutely percentage football. Maximised what he had at his disposal, which was largely pace and energy. Different argument but look at the goals from 05/06 (especially up to about January) and tell me its not exciting. It's just a different type of exciting football.
Graham Rodger - Tried to replicate Slade's approach, didn't have the players.
Alan Buckley MkIII - Tried to be more tika-taka and it didn't work. Was bored to tears and in the end even he went with a more pragmatic approach, 5-man midfield etc.
Mike Newell - Percentage football. Not a lot of football at all. Not sure he or anyone else knew what the plan was.
Neil Woods - Genuinely tried to play football, arguably didn't have the players but also didn't deliver either. Perhaps a reminder that you need to set up relative to what you've got at your disposal.
Hurst/Scott - Hoof
Hurst - Less hoof, but not exactly free flowing.
Bignot - As exciting as it was frustrating. He did like a creative type player (Osborne, Clements) and I believe wanted to entertain with his football. If I had to describe his style it would be about the high press, which when it worked was excellent (Blackpool away on his final game), but when it didn't it was a disaster (Doncaster at home, shortly before he was sacked).
Slade Mk II - Just excrement.
Jolley - Once he got settled, very very pragmatic and reserved. Loved a man-for-man system against anyone remotely better. Bored by it in the end.
Holloway - First season had us playing some great stuff, note that he had better players to work with (Clarke, Benson et al.) Second season was just anything, everything, nothing.
Hurst Mk II - Little deviation from the first spell really. Can spot a proper footballer but reluctant to use them. Always, always favours a grafter over a maverick.
So what is the Grimsby Way then? Because if it's supposed to be some sort of free flowing football then it's not a historical reference to how we used to play, it's more of an aspiration from 1878 of how we should set up. I think most of us would love to be both successful and entertaining. But that isn't going to happen overnight. The board dictating the style of play makes me feel uncomfortable. If there's a playing culture then it has to be organic and developed over time, not just decided that we're going to do it.
Most clubs who have in recent years developed a 'brand' have done so under the guise of a Director of Football/Sporting Operations/whatever wanky job title you want to give them. They can mandate that at every level of the club that's the style and approach all teams are taking. I'm not saying I think we need a DoF but if we want this ethos, then it has to come from someone central to it all who is not likely to leave within 18 months and has oversight and input (where/when needed) on every aspect of the footballing teams. 1878 don't have that oversight, input or indeed expertise to do so. Artell isn't the man either, he even spoke when he came in that he's pleased he's not having to do everything and can now go about enacting the vision of someone else.
Location: Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middle...
Approval:+7,277
Gold Stars: 306
Interesting that you mention both Tika Taka and Total Football.
Brands of football drilled into youngsters the moment they walk through the door of a state of the art training and development centre, by the time you play for the Barca and Ajax first team you have been playing like that since you were very young (or you've been bought because you can play that way).
Cheapside is not La Masia or De Toekomst.
Play the type of football you have the players for.
Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
I bet Stockwood regrets the day he said the Grimsby way.
To be fair I think he just meant they wanted to get away from the turgid football Hurst was serving up week after week and give the fans some excitement.
No one can deny its not been exciting, with plenty of goals but sadly nearly all for the opposition.
Their reputation has taken a bit of a beating, but I still cling on to the hope Artell can turn it round starting Saturday.
I bet Stockwood regrets the day he said the Grimsby way.
To be fair I think he just meant they wanted to get away from the turgid football Hurst was serving up week after week and give the fans some excitement.
Pretty much my view, too. If you're an owner who has absolutely no interest in having a dig at Hurst, how do you say "we want to move on from Hurst's turgid style" without actually saying "we want to move on from Hurst's turgid style"?
He said Grimsby Way but it doesn't exist he meant Buckley way and playing passing football we all get that and most agree in an ideal World it's what we want. However in a relegation battle is 100% the wrong time to try and start it especially when you only have 3-4 players in your squad who can pass two of whom you don't pick Glennon and Hunt.
I've supported Town since the late 80's and there's very little in there of nice passing football beyond the late 1990's. Don't get me wrong, that's a golden era for the club. But it's 25 years ago. The game has completely moved on and any side who set up like that now would get destroyed.
2000 onwards:
Lennie Lawrence. Percentages football. First thing he did was work on the fact we lacked athleticism.
Paul Groves. More football based but hardly tika-taka. Obsessed with a big man up top.
Nicky Law - intercourse knows. Just excrement.
Russell Slade - Absolutely percentage football. Maximised what he had at his disposal, which was largely pace and energy. Different argument but look at the goals from 05/06 (especially up to about January) and tell me its not exciting. It's just a different type of exciting football.
Graham Rodger - Tried to replicate Slade's approach, didn't have the players.
Alan Buckley MkIII - Tried to be more tika-taka and it didn't work. Was bored to tears and in the end even he went with a more pragmatic approach, 5-man midfield etc.
Mike Newell - Percentage football. Not a lot of football at all. Not sure he or anyone else knew what the plan was.
Neil Woods - Genuinely tried to play football, arguably didn't have the players but also didn't deliver either. Perhaps a reminder that you need to set up relative to what you've got at your disposal.
Hurst/Scott - Hoof
Hurst - Less hoof, but not exactly free flowing.
Bignot - As exciting as it was frustrating. He did like a creative type player (Osborne, Clements) and I believe wanted to entertain with his football. If I had to describe his style it would be about the high press, which when it worked was excellent (Blackpool away on his final game), but when it didn't it was a disaster (Doncaster at home, shortly before he was sacked).
Slade Mk II - Just excrement.
Jolley - Once he got settled, very very pragmatic and reserved. Loved a man-for-man system against anyone remotely better. Bored by it in the end.
Holloway - First season had us playing some great stuff, note that he had better players to work with (Clarke, Benson et al.) Second season was just anything, everything, nothing.
Hurst Mk II - Little deviation from the first spell really. Can spot a proper footballer but reluctant to use them. Always, always favours a grafter over a maverick.
So what is the Grimsby Way then? Because if it's supposed to be some sort of free flowing football then it's not a historical reference to how we used to play, it's more of an aspiration from 1878 of how we should set up. I think most of us would love to be both successful and entertaining. But that isn't going to happen overnight. The board dictating the style of play makes me feel uncomfortable. If there's a playing culture then it has to be organic and developed over time, not just decided that we're going to do it.
Most clubs who have in recent years developed a 'brand' have done so under the guise of a Director of Football/Sporting Operations/whatever wanky job title you want to give them. They can mandate that at every level of the club that's the style and approach all teams are taking. I'm not saying I think we need a DoF but if we want this ethos, then it has to come from someone central to it all who is not likely to leave within 18 months and has oversight and input (where/when needed) on every aspect of the footballing teams. 1878 don't have that oversight, input or indeed expertise to do so. Artell isn't the man either, he even spoke when he came in that he's pleased he's not having to do everything and can now go about enacting the vision of someone else.
I think it's partly (mostly) down to the level we have been at for 20 years - lower end league 2 /NL . They are hardly the centre of ideology for total football whether you are successful or not . There are plenty of teams in league 1 and the Champ that play a lot more expansive and exciting football . We have just not been north of league 2 for that long we have seen the lower end dross style of fare .
He said Grimsby Way but it doesn't exist he meant Buckley way and playing passing football we all get that and most agree in an ideal World it's what we want. However in a relegation battle is 100% the wrong time to try and start it especially when you only have 3-4 players in your squad who can pass two of whom you don't pick Glennon and Hunt.
He's of an age where he would have been watching Buckley's teams in his teens/early 20s, (as was I). I was always proud that we were known for playing some really good football and you have to say that the fact we were able to keep ourselves in the 2nd tier for so many years was pretty remarkable, given the size of the club. I'm certain that 'The Grimsby Way' was referring to the Buckley (Mk. I & II) years.
As you drive up cleethorpes Road on to Grimsby road and up to the ground I never once feel proud of the town . It’s a dump isn’t it . A forgotten back water slowly decaying in front of our eyes . Everyone is proud of their roots but it should never be worn as a badge of honour .
As you drive up cleethorpes Road on to Grimsby road and up to the ground I never once feel proud of the town . It’s a dump isn’t it . A forgotten back water slowly decaying in front of our eyes . Everyone is proud of their roots but it should never be worn as a badge of honour .
Go round the other way then - it's lovely.
It is a mess down there but so many secondary shopping streets up and down the country are.
As you drive up cleethorpes Road on to Grimsby road and up to the ground I never once feel proud of the town . It’s a dump isn’t it . A forgotten back water slowly decaying in front of our eyes . Everyone is proud of their roots but it should never be worn as a badge of honour .
No , love the place it might be behind a bit but would rather have a chat with a local in a 'real' place than get the bollockings from Karen across the road for putting the car on her front in the relatively affluent area I live .
Always tell the wife there is a 50k house waiting for her and she can walk to the games with me bi-weekly .
She says I am easily pleased and she doesn't like football so seems a none starter so far .
He's of an age where he would have been watching Buckley's teams in his teens/early 20s, (as was I). I was always proud that we were known for playing some really good football and you have to say that the fact we were able to keep ourselves in the 2nd tier for so many years was pretty remarkable, given the size of the club. I'm certain that 'The Grimsby Way' was referring to the Buckley (Mk. I & II) years.
Buckley brought in the right type of player who could play the way he wanted, but it wasn't always tip tap football, we moved the ball quickly with players like Childs and Gilbert, we had midfielders who could charge through the middle such as Cockerill and Cunnington.
Sadly we are unlikely to see such players again playing for us but the real sad fact is if the owners are wanting that brand of football again then they are going to have to dig deep into their pockets and if they thought Artell is the man to do it with our current squad then they are deluded.
Buckley brought in the right type of player who could play the way he wanted, but it wasn't always tip tap football, we moved the ball quickly with players like Childs and Gilbert, we had midfielders who could charge through the middle such as Cockerill and Cunnington.
Sadly we are unlikely to see such players again playing for us but the real sad fact is if the owners are wanting that brand of football again then they are going to have to dig deep into their pockets and if they thought Artell is the man to do it with our current squad then they are deluded.
Buckley generally had two good CBs and a decent Keeper
Buckley brought in the right type of player who could play the way he wanted, but it wasn't always tip tap football, we moved the ball quickly with players like Childs and Gilbert, we had midfielders who could charge through the middle such as Cockerill and Cunnington.
It was an expansive style of play which relied on the wide men to be heavily involved because we rarely had any high-scoring forwards. The strikers were there as often as not to act as the foil for the onrushing midfielders/wingers. It was still good football, however, in the era when most teams had big lumps up front and tended to play percentage stuff. We never got close to winning any of the divisions we were in, even the seasons when we won promotion, which shows that it didn't always work, but we had enough ability to play some good stuff and earn plenty of good results.
I've said in the past that the increased size and physicality of players these days means that there is less room on the pitch for good football, but you still need to try. Our problem at the moment is that we don't seem to have the players who can consistently play to a high enough level, especially when the opposition is playing an up and at 'em style. Too much panic, too few accurate passes - even the simplest of passes are going wildly astray at the moment which must be down to the players not coping with the pressure.
If you were to ask the rest of the footballing world after the last 20 years then they'd probably say that the "Grimsby way" is being shite. So in that respect, Artell has got us there in record time.
The last 20 years has been mostly turgid crap, and unsuccessful to boot, so I am all for going in a different direction, but it seems the transition is going to be very painful, and so far, it doesn't look like we have the correct management in place to achieve it.
Would be half tempted - good contacts, old school manager . Done a good job with Torquay who have been /are in a right mess .
Problem might be that an old school manager might not like to work with/under/side by a young laptop operator telling him what to do, and how to recruit. Perhaps DA was the only one willing to work under these circumstances, as he had been out of work for 18 months. A kind of reluctant "Moneyball"
I bet Stockwood regrets the day he said the Grimsby way.
To be fair I think he just meant they wanted to get away from the turgid football Hurst was serving up week after week and give the fans some excitement. No one can deny its not been exciting, with plenty of goals but sadly nearly all for the opposition.
Their reputation has taken a bit of a beating, but I still cling on to the hope Artell can turn it round starting Saturday.
but I still cling on to the hope Artell can turn it round starting Saturday. Yes that's me as well.
Is the fear that’s killing me, and the chance to lose to FGR next week isn’t helping with that.
It's usually seen as a positive to be playing your direct rivals but I'm not so sure it is this time with the way things are going, especially as they both keep losing most of the time.
It's usually seen as a positive to be playing your direct rivals but I'm not so sure it is this time with the way things are going, especially as they both keep losing most of the time.
It’s not the time to be paying your key relegation rivals at BP when in the last 5 home games you’ve conceded 50% more goals than in all 23 home games of the 97/98 season. Yeah, I know that’s comparing our best pound for pound defence in living memory (RIP Peter Handyside ) with with our worst, but it’s yet another terrifying statistic nonetheless.
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) with with our worst, but it’s yet another terrifying statistic nonetheless. 