Club Accounts

The accounts for 22/23 should be published tomorrow. We should expect the 2nd highest turnover in our history with only the ITV Digital season (2001/02) higher.

Which begs the question; why are we so fücking shít?!

Just to add a little bit more pressure to Saturday!

Quoted from mariner91

Which begs the question; why are we so fücking shít?!

Nutshelled.

It will be a year to the day since we beat Southampton are were drawn shortly after to play Brighton away. Many thought we would enjoy the fruits of those labours rather than be in a 3rd bottom v 2nd bottom relegation dogfight. Still Forest Green have a much bigger wage bill than us and are doing even worse.

Quoted from GrimRob

It will be a year to the day since we beat Southampton are were drawn shortly after to play Brighton away.

Can't be, there wasn't a 29th February last year...

Quoted from GrimRob

It will be a year to the day since we beat Southampton are were drawn shortly after to play Brighton away. Many thought we would enjoy the fruits of those labours rather than be in a 3rd bottom v 2nd bottom relegation dogfight. Still Forest Green have a much bigger wage bill than us and are doing even worse.

I’d swap our current form for theirs in a heartbeat.

Quoted from GrimRob

It will be a year to the day since we beat Southampton are were drawn shortly after to play Brighton away. Many thought we would enjoy the fruits of those labours rather than be in a 3rd bottom v 2nd bottom relegation dogfight. Still Forest Green have a much bigger wage bill than us and are doing even worse.

For now. Below is our PPG versus as FGR’s mapped across the season. It’s a mildly interesting visualisation of form and trajectory across the course of the season. To some degree, it tells us what we already know; that we started well and then dropped of badly (as did Forest Green, but to a slightly greater degree.

Interestingly, our PPG is still notably higher than theirs; 0.94 versus 0.79, which feels a greater deficit than than the 3 points they are behind us. The problem is the trajectory; ours is falling while theirs is rising at some rate - the pink shaded area is the time since Cotterill has been at the club and you can see the improvement. We are bottom of the form table over not only 6 but 10 games (Forest Green are 13th and 18th respectively). It’s clear where the momentum is, and where it ain’t.

I’ve got an árse like a dog toy.

Quoted from jamesgtfc

Just to add a little bit more pressure to Saturday!

If we’re 2 down inside 8 minutes again this week Artell will be dodging more than season tickets, I’m taking a copy of the accounts fashioned into a Millwall brick.

Quoted from Poojah

For now. Below is our PPG versus as FGR’s mapped across the season. It’s a mildly interesting visualisation of form and trajectory across the course of the season. To some degree, it tells us what we already know; that we started well and then dropped of badly (as did Forest Green, but to a slightly greater degree.

Interestingly, our PPG is still notably higher than theirs; 0.94 versus 0.79, which feels a greater deficit than than the 3 points they are behind us. The problem is the trajectory; ours is falling while theirs is rising at some rate - the pink shaded area is the time since Cotterill has been at the club and you can see the improvement. We are bottom of the form table over not only 6 but 10 games (Forest Green are 13th and 18th respectively). It’s clear where the momentum is, and where it ain’t.

I’ve got an árse like a dog toy.

?

I have my irrational hope that our traditional Spring improvement will stand us in good stead. Floodlights may not feature at all on Saturday? Our typical season is a reasonable start, terrible winter, and good finish.That said PH normally had a good January window, so may be that be more of a factor since he has been our manager quite a lot of the time in recent years.

Quoted from GrimRob

?

Floodlights may not feature at all on Saturday?

You looked at the weather forecast? They’ll be on from 14:30.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

You looked at the weather forecast? They’ll be on from 14:30.

Great. Dark and gloomy. Metaphorical.

Quoted from GrimRob

?

Floodlights may not feature at all on Saturday?

The main worry has not so much been the floodlights, as the floodgates; which we all pray have now been closed.  

https://gtfc.co.uk/annual-accounts-released/

Wow turnover close to 7 million

-Pettit & Stockwood converting 3 million loan into shares

-Profit 245k b/t

-cup run made 1.41 million

- players sold 293k (Mcatee ?)

Quite transparent and positive off the pitch it seems , and it shows that the player wage bill was/is far higher than these daft generators claim to know .

Quoted from Mappers

https://gtfc.co.uk/annual-accounts-released/

Wow turnover close to 7 million

Interesting set of accounts under present circumstances. I’ll let someone else pour through the minutiae, but some things that stood out.

Comparing last season with our previous, mostly normal League Two season, turnover increased from £3.4m to £6.8m - effectively double (98.5% if we account for rounding). Staff costs increased from £2.7m to £4.0m, an increase of 47%.

Proportion of turnover spent on wages therefore actually dropped from 79% to 59% (versus 19/20), though that’s not entirely surprising in that we wouldn’t have budgeted for the kind of cup money we eventually took (the majority of which came after the January window closed).

Now comparing against last season, commercial revenue was down fractionally, while hospitality was down by a third. That doesn’t seem particularly reflective of the upward trajectory the club was on.

What’s concerning though, is that the club only posted a pre-tax profit of £245k, despite £1.4m generated from the cup run. Without that, you’re back in similar territory to the previous season’s £931k loss.

The underlying takeaway then, is that we aren’t sustainable outside of extraordinary seasons, and even accounting for a degree of unsustainability, we remain wholly uncompetitive on the pitch. That said, that’s not the whole story, because we do know from statements by Stockwood and Hurst in the summer that the playing budget had increased (by what extent we don’t know), and yet we have by every tangible metric got much worse on the pitch.

All in all, it’s pretty depressing. So many questions to be asked.

We now have to wait another 12 months to see what the current bunch of failures cost us. Jason and Andrew have purchased the club and stuck another £3m in, yet we still find ourselves in the same position.

Those figures are positive on the face of it, just increase my anger when I think about where we find ourselves.

Quoted from Mappers

https://gtfc.co.uk/annual-accounts-released/

Wow turnover close to 7 million

-Pettit & Stockwood converting 3 million loan into shares

-Profit 245k b/t

-cup run made 1.41 million

- players sold 293k (Mcatee ?)

Quite transparent and positive off the pitch it seems , and it shows that the player wage bill was/is far higher than these daft generators claim to know .

It’s funny, because my interpretation is the polar opposite to yours. It’s entirely possible that I’m just being a miserable cúnt - the last few weeks have really beaten the stuffing out of my Town mojo.

If that’s the case, someone feel free to put me back in my box of despondency.

Does anyone know how much we are paying non footballing staff (wage bill apart from footballers)?

Quoted from Poojah

It’s funny, because my interpretation is the polar opposite to yours. It’s entirely possible that I’m just being a miserable cúnt - the last few weeks have really beaten the stuffing out of my Town mojo.

If that’s the case, someone feel free to put me back in my box of despondency.

I think those accounts paint a positive picture (disclaimer: I've only read the article at the moment), but the reality that is transferring to the pitch tells another story.

I'm interested to see what Kieran Maguire has to say about them.

Quoted from Poojah

What’s concerning though, is that the club only posted a pre-tax profit of £245k, despite £1.4m generated from the cup run. Without that, you’re back in similar territory to the previous season’s £931k loss.
.

How much of it was paying off Fenty? Says we repaid him to the tune of £449,000 this year

Interesting set of accounts my fishy friends ,im no accountant so i cant really comment on them however i do note that Jason and Andrew have put in £3million ! Can you tell me the difference between them putting money into your club like ours do ?  Which is fantastic for both clubs however ours is going to finish top 10 in league 1 and yours in the bottom 4 in league2.

Mmmmmm

Quoted from aussiej

Does anyone know how much we are paying non footballing staff (wage bill apart from footballers)?

That's what I was thinking , are we assuming that the increased wage bill has all gone on playing staff ?

I wonder if our commercial revenue being slightly down is partly (or mostly?) as a result of the dog's breakfast Macron have made of supplying kit to the club shop.

Quoted from BobbyCummingsTackle

I wonder if our commercial revenue being slightly down is partly (or mostly?) as a result of the dog's breakfast Macron have made of supplying kit to the club shop.

I assume that’s captured under “retail”, which has gone up quite a bit in all fairness.

Quoted from grimps

That's what I was thinking , are we assuming that the increased wage bill has all gone on playing staff ?

That would clearly be an incorrect assumption, of course. The exact details were not going to find out however; these are already as transparent a set of accounts as you are likely to find.

Quoted from GrimRob

Great. Dark and gloomy. Metaphorical.

all set for the Gotterramadung then.

I won't refer my AAT 4 textbook from 20 years ago as it's likely in the bin.

I think as a one off it's very impressive Poojah as I doubt many clubs (do any ) turn a profit these days  , they must have accounted for about a 1 million loss at the start of the  22/23 season which was effectively written off from the cup run money then some .

Fenty is paid up , confirmed . Good news .

They are willing to convert loans nto shares - good news . Maybe in the hope of making it a more attractive proposition for investors , there are not many debt free clubs and it always looks better on the balance sheet .

Aussie it's difficult to know but the playing budget was likely a lot higher than many thought even the 23/23 season I would say you could guess at what the ratio is  
88% of 4.52 million which is around 4 million so 4 million for all staff wages ,you would have thought 2.5- 3 million was playing budget going off the ratio at other clubs .

Obviously the next set of accounts won't be anywhere near as impressive , I'm assuming the playing budget was higher and we just recruited really really badly - it's weird . Everything off the pitch seems good but on it .....

Quoted from Poojah

Comparing last season with our previous, mostly normal League Two season, turnover increased from £3.4m to £6.8m - effectively double (98.5% if we account for rounding). Staff costs increased from £2.7m to £4.0m, an increase of 47%.

Which season were you comparing to Poojah? The season we were previously in League 2 (prior to last season) would of been 20/21 right? Just wondering if turnover would have been majorly impacted by no fans in stadiums during lockdown.

FWIW I'm with you on not reading these positively; more just a confirmation of how much a money-drain lower league football can be... last season had an exceptional cup run which we won't replicate each season. I know the ambitions to run the club in a 'financially sustainable' way but I just can't see it... maybe I'm being too pessimistic but I'm just not sure where the money is coming from for us to progress.

Quoted from MarinerWY

Which season were you comparing to Poojah? The season we were previously in League 2 (prior to last season) would of been 20/21 right? Just wondering if turnover would have been majorly impacted by no fans in stadiums during lockdown.

FWIW I'm with you on not reading these positively; more just a confirmation of how much a money-drain lower league football can be... last season had an exceptional cup run which we won't replicate each season. I know the ambitions to run the club in a 'financially sustainable' way but I just can't see it... maybe I'm being too pessimistic but I'm just not sure where the money is coming from for us to progress.

19/20 - I discounted 20/21 as it was a freak season on so many levels and not really fit for comparison.

Quoted from David Frazer

Interesting set of accounts my fishy friends ,im no accountant so i cant really comment on them however i do note that Jason and Andrew have put in £3million ! Can you tell me the difference between them putting money into your club like ours do ?  Which is fantastic for both clubs however ours is going to finish top 10 in league 1 and yours in the bottom 4 in league2.

Mmmmmm

well least we turned a profit I guess, i note you are 4 million in debt is that right? We've got things very very badly wrong on the pitch this season no doubts about that

Quoted from friskneymariner

all set for the Gotterramadung then.

Is that an opera about owning sheep poo?

Quoted from Poojah

What’s concerning though, is that the club only posted a pre-tax profit of £245k, despite £1.4m generated from the cup run. Without that, you’re back in similar territory to the previous season’s £931k loss.

The underlying takeaway then, is that we aren’t sustainable outside of extraordinary seasons, and even accounting for a degree of unsustainability, we remain wholly uncompetitive on the pitch. That said, that’s not the whole story, because we do know from statements by Stockwood and Hurst in the summer that the playing budget had increased (by what extent we don’t know), and yet we have by every tangible metric got much worse on the pitch.

My thoughts exactly, where on earth do we go from here based on the fact that we can't increase matchday revenue by much and are unlikely to have cup sales/player trading that generates an additional 900k each year.

It's entirely laudable that they are converting 3m loans to shares, but what's the medium/long term prospects for us as they look pretty bleak to me based on that.

Accounts bods: any chance of a 5yr/10yr rolling cost of ground maintenance? BP is eating money and probably the biggest weight around our necks.

Quoted from David Frazer

Interesting set of accounts my fishy friends ,im no accountant so i cant really comment on them however i do note that Jason and Andrew have put in £3million ! Can you tell me the difference between them putting money into your club like ours do ?  Which is fantastic for both clubs however ours is going to finish top 10 in league 1 and yours in the bottom 4 in league2.

Mmmmmm

Difference is, probably, the transparency that 1878 have said they'll always look to move the club on and, as investors, look to recoup their injections (and then some, I expect).  The ambition of improvement at each stage is clearly tailored towards making the club a better, slicker and more profitable operation which in turn makes us a more attractive prospect to future owners and therefore a greater return on the initial investment.

As they are fans you have to hope and show a degree of faith that there's no ulterior motive behind it. It's a long flipping winded operation if there is a quick buck exercise at play. Other than simply improvements I can't see any way we become more attractive to buyers. There's no quick buck here.

Very happy to be corrected but I don't think Lincoln's owners have come out and stated their intentions other than a few wooly statements. They aren't local and from the outside looking in it's very difficult to see why an American family with no ties to the area decided to invest in a lower league football club that isn't a sleeping giant, hasn't got a historic large fan base nor is it a 'name' outside the region.

I don't think it's fantastic for either club to be honest. It's not sustainable for any club. Nice dig on the league position, noted and fair. I can't argue that. However, my aspirations for GTFC are far higher than riddling ourselves with debt, benign or not, to finish 54th in the league system, can't remember seeing the trophies for that one. Equally so I'm not happy finishing (although I'll take it at this moment in time) 90th in the league for any profit or debt.

Quoted from Mappers

I won't refer my AAT 4 textbook from 20 years ago as it's likely in the bin.

I think as a one off it's very impressive Poojah as I doubt many clubs (do any ) turn a profit these days  , they must have accounted for about a 1 million loss at the start of the  22/23 season which was effectively written off from the cup run money then some .

My concern is that just over £1.7m of our total turnover (25% no less) came from the cup run and player sales, neither of which are reliable or stable sources of income. The statement also points out that attendances were the second highest in 30 years, which is a great thing on the surface, but also requires a degree of optimism and momentum to maintain, both of which have now been lost.

The average price of a season ticket last season was £222.45 (which is slightly lower than I’d have guessed, but presumably includes a high proportion of concessions), of which we sold 5,754. I think we sold slightly fewer this season, but let’s just say that drops back down to a more “normal” figure of 3,500 next season, that’s bang on another half-a-million quid of guaranteed income down the proverbial shítter.

From a financial point of view, it’s not this season I’m concerned about, but next. Especially if we go down. I posted something along these lines the other day, but the accounts bring it home. Stay up this season, and the extra TV money etc means we’re probably still talking about turnover in the £7m region. Go down, and have a rough season, and we could be down to half that amount. Ifs and buts I know, but a potentially very bumpy ride.

Quoted from jamesgtfc

We now have to wait another 12 months to see what the current bunch of failures cost us. Jason and Andrew have purchased the club and stuck another £3m in, yet we still find ourselves in the same position.

Those figures are positive on the face of it, just increase my anger when I think about where we find ourselves.

The accounts do state that the playing budget for 23/24 was increased by 22% over the figures here . Presumambly all and more actually spent given the need for incoming in January. Probable conclusion is we have a reasonable player budget but it’s been spent appallingly badly .

Quoted from Hagrid

well least we turned a profit I guess, i note you are 4 million in debt is that right? We've got things very very badly wrong on the pitch this season no doubts about that

Also 300k up on Lincoln (£6.5mil) revenue 22/23 season - not bad for the minnows of Lincolnshire .

Paul Hurst wants stringing up (metaphorically speaking) for the summer recruitment.

Quoted from ska face

Paul Hurst wants stringing up (metaphorically speaking) for the summer recruitment.

Still question marks there, for me. Like all managers, Paul Hurst has signed the occasional stinking player, but I can’t ever remember him having a stinking summer window (with the possible exception of Ipswich, under very different circumstances).

Why now, with the biggest tail wind we’ve had in years, does he fúck it up so badly? How did we end up with such a gutless crop of players, when even the less talented Conference sides back in the day always had a good go?

Is it just an anomaly, or was a degree of responsibility for recruitment shifted away from him? Not trying to start a conspiracy theory, it’s just really odd in the context of his priory history.

Quoted from Poojah

My concern is that just over £1.7m of our total turnover (25% no less) came from the cup run and player sales, neither of which are reliable or stable sources of income. The statement also points out that attendances were the second highest in 30 years, which is a great thing on the surface, but also requires a degree of optimism and momentum to maintain, both of which have now been lost.

The average price of a season ticket last season was £222.45 (which is slightly lower than I’d have guessed, but presumably includes a high proportion of concessions), of which we sold 5,754. I think we sold slightly fewer this season, but let’s just say that drops back down to a more “normal” figure of 3,500 next season, that’s bang on another half-a-million quid of guaranteed income down the proverbial shítter.

From a financial point of view, it’s not this season I’m concerned about, but next. Especially if we go down. I posted something along these lines the other day, but the accounts bring it home. Stay up this season, and the extra TV money etc means we’re probably still talking about turnover in the £7m region. Go down, and have a rough season, and we could be down to half that amount. Ifs and buts I know, but a potentially very bumpy ride.

That's a fair opinion . They will be making up a fair shortfall this season at least you would have thought ,it's going to be much bigger next if we go down isn't it .

I shudder at the thought of the playing budget this season , I honestly think they have stretched it to a decent level and it's just been terribly poor recruitment who have not come cheap . We likely will be stuck with a fair few of them whatever league we are in.  

It is vital we stay up no doubt about that imo.

Especially as your point is key - their model is obviously eventually to try and be sustainable through a player sell on strategy  which will have touched the sides with the Conteh sale , but would be a hell of a lot more harder to implement in NL . Their whole pack of cards is in danger of tumbling down really .

Quoted from Poojah

Still question marks there, for me. Like all managers, Paul Hurst has signed the occasional stinking player, but I can’t ever remember him having a stinking summer window (with the possible exception of Ipswich, under very different circumstances).

Why now, with the biggest tail wind we’ve had in years, does he fúck it up so badly? How did we end up with such a gutless crop of players, when even the less talented Conference sides back in the day always had a good go?

Is it just an anomaly, or was a degree of responsibility for recruitment shifted away from him? Not trying to start a conspiracy theory, it’s just really odd in the context of his priory history.

this is my mindset also, the 1 year we have a bloke in charge of recruitment, and we've signed this squad...

Quoted from Swansea_Mariner

My thoughts exactly, where on earth do we go from here based on the fact that we can't increase matchday revenue by much and are unlikely to have cup sales/player trading that generates an additional 900k each year.

It's entirely laudable that they are converting 3m loans to shares, but what's the medium/long term prospects for us as they look pretty bleak to me based on that.

They are trying to make the club look in a good financial position to attract investment , logically that's the only reason why + not wanting the club to ever be in a mess like many others accumalating debt year on year .Fair play to them they are doing their best .

This brings home the stark reality of where we're at doesn't it?

We can't generate enough money through normal income to be seriously competitive.  There's clearly more we can do increase income (commercial for example) but we've also all but maxed out ticket sales for example. Limited scope here.

We're hemorrhaging money all over the place on a decrepid ground. Only going to get worse I would imagine.

Moving to a new ground would alleviate the extortionate maintenance cost of BP and scope additional income streams for the club. Alas, we can't afford to move to a new ground.

Any profit based seasons are reliant on unaccounted for windfalls, or as Fenty would have said 'footballing fortune', such as cup runs or player sales/sell-ons.

Can't rely on cup runs. Player sales has potential and I've long advocated that production line of talent that we can identify, develop and sell. Conteh is a great example of this, but it only works if you get a replacement in and do the same. Or at least have a success more often than not with that approach.  I don't see a sellable asset in the current squad now Conteh has gone so it'll need another in the summer or a youth talent emerging and attracting sufficient interest.

Regardless of how we make a profit. It feels like when we do it's high pressure to convert any additional investment into success.  This season was a bust on that. We had the investment and we drunk it up the wall. Now we need to wait to see if there's any windfall and we can make benefit of it.

I wonder if the stark reality is hitting home for 1878 of how difficult it's going to be to move us forward and how 20 odd years of chronic neglect, at a point when others really progressed and developed, has left us snookered.  Thanks John!  

Quoted from Poojah

Still question marks there, for me. Like all managers, Paul Hurst has signed the occasional stinking player, but I can’t ever remember him having a stinking summer window (with the possible exception of Ipswich, under very different circumstances).

Why now, with the biggest tail wind we’ve had in years, does he fúck it up so badly? How did we end up with such a gutless crop of players, when even the less talented Conference sides back in the day always had a good go?

Is it just an anomaly, or was a degree of responsibility for recruitment shifted away from him? Not trying to start a conspiracy theory, it’s just really odd in the context of his priory history.

Without wanting to slip straight into regional stereotypes, I think he’s used to being tight/frugal and when he’s got some money he doesn’t know what to do with it. Like that bin man who won the lottery, spunked the lot and ruined his life.

A bit complacent and a bit arrogant in terms of not appreciating what we had in some positions (goalkeeper especially), and doesn’t seem to want to ever be in a position where he looks like he’s begging for someone to stay. Was the same when we went up in 15/16 - Amond, Toto, Arnold all allowed to basically walk without a fight and never adequately replaced.

I did wonder what Stockwood was getting at last week when he said Hurst had spent the summer essentially recruiting outside of the plan/model/criteria or whatever the phrase was. Presumably the criteria was “not shít” and Hurst missed the memo.

Like has been said previously, think he overestimated his ability to get an almost entirely new squad of persistently underperforming players to achieve their full potential all in one fell swoop.

Quoted from ska face

Paul Hurst wants stringing up (metaphorically speaking) for the summer recruitment.

Paul Hurst masterminded the playoff run and Cup run that gained us £6.8m in revenue, but he signed a few iffy players this summer (Eastwood, Mullarkey and Rodgers are the only three for me) and therefore he's a disgrace and subject to this kind of post.

Quoted from diehardmariner

This brings home the stark reality of where we're at doesn't it?

We can't generate enough money through normal income to be seriously competitive.  There's clearly more we can do increase income (commercial for example) but we've also all but maxed out ticket sales for example. Limited scope here.

We're hemorrhaging money all over the place on a decrepid ground. Only going to get worse I would imagine.

Moving to a new ground would alleviate the extortionate maintenance cost of BP and scope additional income streams for the club. Alas, we can't afford to move to a new ground.

Any profit based seasons are reliant on unaccounted for windfalls, or as Fenty would have said 'footballing fortune', such as cup runs or player sales/sell-ons.

Can't rely on cup runs. Player sales has potential and I've long advocated that production line of talent that we can identify, develop and sell. Conteh is a great example of this, but it only works if you get a replacement in and do the same. Or at least have a success more often than not with that approach.  I don't see a sellable asset in the current squad now Conteh has gone so it'll need another in the summer or a youth talent emerging and attracting sufficient interest.

Regardless of how we make a profit. It feels like when we do it's high pressure to convert any additional investment into success.  This season was a bust on that. We had the investment and we drunk it up the wall. Now we need to wait to see if there's any windfall and we can make benefit of it.

I wonder if the stark reality is hitting home for 1878 of how difficult it's going to be to move us forward and how 20 odd years of chronic neglect, at a point when others really progressed and developed, has left us snookered.  Thanks John!  

To sustain anything higher up they need investment probably sooner rather than later imo .

I don't buy in that you can't be competitive at league 2 with a modest budget irregularly or get promotion as lot's of teams prove . But to be a league up we need (as much as it pains me to say it) Lincoln levels of investment .

I think it's literally just recruitment was so so bad ,as everything else seems good ; which is weird as normally when clubs get all their ducks in a row off the field they do relatively well.

Quoted from Poojah

Still question marks there, for me. Like all managers, Paul Hurst has signed the occasional stinking player, but I can’t ever remember him having a stinking summer window (with the possible exception of Ipswich, under very different circumstances).

Why now, with the biggest tail wind we’ve had in years, does he fúck it up so badly? How did we end up with such a gutless crop of players, when even the less talented Conference sides back in the day always had a good go?

Is it just an anomaly, or was a degree of responsibility for recruitment shifted away from him? Not trying to start a conspiracy theory, it’s just really odd in the context of his priory history.

3 summers of recruitment for us in the FL and they were all poor. Weakening us in each one.

16/17 - Some out of his hands in terms of outgoings and no doubt constrained by a low budget but he brought in some dogshit.

22/23 - Best signing was getting Andy Smith back on loan. 2 lads he signed and used sparingly are going great guns in our league after he binned them off. Again, difficult due to a reduced summer for the club.

Somehow, perhaps more a reflection of his ability to get stuff out of players, we did OK. 16/17 he left us in a decent position and with a sellable asset in Bogle. 22/23 was an overall finish we would have taken to start with.

23/24 - Just a total disaster. Rose a great addition, Conteh turned a good and future profit. I think Vernam will go onto prove a good signing. Other than that, absolutely excrement. Made worse when you consider we let Orsi and Wearne go as part of the recruitment window.

Love the bloke. Thankful for what he's done.

But his recruitment for us at this level is shocking.

Quoted from ska face

Without wanting to slip straight into regional stereotypes, I think he’s used to being tight/frugal and when he’s got some money he doesn’t know what to do with it. Like that bin man who won the lottery, spunked the lot and ruined his life.

A bit complacent and a bit arrogant in terms of not appreciating what we had in some positions (goalkeeper especially), and doesn’t seem to want to ever be in a position where he looks like he’s begging for someone to stay. Was the same when we went up in 15/16 - Amond, Toto, Arnold all allowed to basically walk without a fight and never adequately replaced.

I did wonder what Stockwood was getting at last week when he said Hurst had spent the summer essentially recruiting outside of the plan/model/criteria or whatever the phrase was. Presumably the criteria was “not shít” and Hurst missed the memo.

Like has been said previously, think he overestimated his ability to get an almost entirely new squad of persistently underperforming players to achieve their full potential all in one fell swoop.

I honestly thought when Crocombe left , he had a high high end keeper lined up at league 2 level .

Quoted from Mariner_09

Paul Hurst masterminded the playoff run and Cup run that gained us £6.8m in revenue, but he signed a few iffy players this summer (Eastwood, Mullarkey and Rodgers are the only three for me) and therefore he's a disgrace and subject to this kind of post.

I have to add Wilson & Pyke because they are never on the pitch + doubt they came cheap .

Quoted from diehardmariner

3 summers of recruitment for us in the FL and they were all poor. Weakening us in each one.

16/17 - Some out of his hands in terms of outgoings and no doubt constrained by a low budget but he brought in some dogshit.

22/23 - Best signing was getting Andy Smith back on loan. 2 lads he signed and used sparingly are going great guns in our league after he binned them off. Again, difficult due to a reduced summer for the club.

Somehow, perhaps more a reflection of his ability to get stuff out of players, we did OK. 16/17 he left us in a decent position and with a sellable asset in Bogle. 22/23 was an overall finish we would have taken to start with.

23/24 - Just a total disaster. Rose a great addition, Conteh turned a good and future profit. I think Vernam will go onto prove a good signing. Other than that, absolutely excrement. Made worse when you consider we let Orsi and Wearne go as part of the recruitment window.

Love the bloke. Thankful for what he's done.

But his recruitment for us at this level is shocking.

I think that’s a bit harsh. The 16/17 window doesn’t excite when you look back on it, but he still had us in and around the play-offs when he left, with all the financial constraints you mention.

Whilst you can find fault with last season, home performances in particular, we still achieved our highest league finish in almost two decades and made the FA Cup quarter final.

Compared to both of those, this season is a complete aberration.

Having seen the accounts I am not as pessimistic as most. The owners do appear to have stepped up with their funding the statement that their loans shortly to be converted to share capital are now £3m suggests a further £800k injected post these accounts which should fund this seasons loss.
Conversion to share capital means no benign loans to repay on the day they want out  when it comes.  So far at least .
Playing budget increased by 22% over these figures for current season
With this funding we should have been challenging for a play off spot
Owners are entitled to be frustrated as a result .
Whose fault is it ?
We can see the playing budget has been spent appallingly badly.
While less transparent to us the back office staff spending may also have been spent appallingly badly.
Ultimately the owners control these things and it is ironic that with were their acclaimed business background they haven’t been able to manage this business remotely well so far.
Where does that leave us ?
I think we only have a short time left for the current owners to get it right before pressures to inject  more money lead them to consider their position .
Perhaps the conversion of their loans to share is a prelude or requirement of a new investor  or investors. I hope so it’s needed

Quoted from Mariner_09

Paul Hurst masterminded the playoff run and Cup run that gained us £6.8m in revenue, but he signed a few iffy players this summer (Eastwood, Mullarkey and Rodgers are the only three for me) and therefore he's a disgrace and subject to this kind of post.

He Gave Vernam a 3 year deal, thats criminal

Quoted from Hagrid

He Gave Vernam a 3 year deal, thats criminal

How is Vernam still getting stick? Started the season injured, didn’t perform well then paid the price for playing through by being out for 3 months. Has eased his way back in and often been a bright spark attacking wise when he’s played since his return.

He’s way down the list of players who deserve stick

Quoted from Mariner_09

Paul Hurst masterminded the playoff run and Cup run that gained us £6.8m in revenue, but he signed a few iffy players this summer (Eastwood, Mullarkey and Rodgers are the only three for me) and therefore he's a disgrace and subject to this kind of post.

I am not sure you can credit PH for masterminding the FA cup run when it was achieved by playing squad players who he thought weren’t good enough for the League eg Orsi

Quoted from pontoonlew

How is Vernam still getting stick? Started the season injured, didn’t perform well then paid the price for playing through by being out for 3 months. Has eased his way back in and often been a bright spark attacking wise when he’s played since his return.

He’s way down the list of players who deserve stick

He's injured again. Apparently a hamstring tear. Giving him a 3 year deal with his injury record was a ridiculous decision. No blame on the player for signing the contract but it's yet another example of how the increased budget was pïsséd up the wall in the summer.

On the note of injuries, Max Wright has featured in 30 games for Halifax this season, yet we couldn't keep him fit which raises a few questions about our methods.

Hurst had an absolute disaster putting this team together. Dont know how anyone can argue with that. His team is taking us down ffs

Do the maths with some of the signings on 2 and 3 year deals that no other teams wanted.

I think Hurst's problems in the summer probably came because he wanted to (or had been asked to) change the playing style somewhat from, 'Keep us shape' and have talented individuals create something every now and again, to a more expansive style. If it meant he was looking at different types of player to those he usually went for (limited in areas, but grafters at the very least), it might explain why so many poor signings were made. He went 'against type' and made a lot of mistakes with his signings. Very odd for such an experienced manager.

Quoted from Poojah

I think that’s a bit harsh. The 16/17 window doesn’t excite when you look back on it, but he still had us in and around the play-offs when he left, with all the financial constraints you mention.

Whilst you can find fault with last season, home performances in particular, we still achieved our highest league finish in almost two decades and made the FA Cup quarter final.

Compared to both of those, this season is a complete aberration.

Again, are the actual performance (in terms of results rather than entertainment) a reflection of his ability to get shape, structure, discipline etc. more than how well the recruitment went?

I'm not faulting the guys ability, certainly until the last 10 or so games of his second spell, to send a team out to do a job. But his recruitment at this club in fourth tier is woeful.  Must be 50+ players he's signed as a 4th tier manager at this club. How many have gone onto do well for the club/benefit us and improve on what they replaced?   Collins, Smith, Rose, Conteh.... Lloyd I guess.  I'm discounting his first window back in winter 2021 as that was just a farce to be honest.

Can look at that many ways. One of which is that if he's capable of achieving midtable finishes with bad recruitment, what would have happened with marginal improvements in the recruitment? Last season for example, how much better would we have looked with a proper striker all season rather than hoping that Taylor turned back the clock?

Completely agree on your final point, in comparison this season is literally the worst. Considering he had no constraints and a better budget, it means into ska's point about him doing better with restrictions.

Quoted from pontoonlew

How is Vernam still getting stick? Started the season injured, didn’t perform well then paid the price for playing through by being out for 3 months. Has eased his way back in and often been a bright spark attacking wise when he’s played since his return.

He’s way down the list of players who deserve stick

Because he's injured again.

And Im blaming Hurst for it, that okay with you? He didnt give himself a 3 year deal did he

No mention of our head of recruitment in the decisions made this summer. It may not have been all Hurst's doing.

Ultimately because it’s the manager who has the final say, as Hurst liked to constantly remind everyone.

if our stats guy picked these players he should be sacked.

Quoted from HerveJosse

Having seen the accounts I am not as pessimistic as most. The owners do appear to have stepped up with their funding the statement that their loans shortly to be converted to share capital are now £3m suggests a further £800k injected post these accounts which should fund this seasons loss.
Conversion to share capital means no benign loans to repay on the day they want out. When it comes. So far at least .
Playing budget increased by 22% over these figures for current season
With this funding we should have been challenging for a play off spot
Owners are entitled to be frustrated as a result .
Whose fault is it ?
We can see the playing budget has been spent appallingly badly.
While less transparent to us the back office staff spending may also have been spent appallingly badly.
Ultimately the owners control these things and it is ironic that with were their acclaimed business background they haven’t been able to manage this business remotely well so far.
Where does that leave us ?
I think we only have a short time left for the current owners to get it right before pressures to inject  more money lead them to consider their position .
Perhaps the conversion of their loans to share is a prelude or requirement of a new investor  or investors. I hope so it’s needed

Pretty much where I am . I wonder what their limit as to what they will put in , they must be 5-6 million deep already . It would probably be 10-15mil in the next 5 to 10 years assuming the need to keep investing to maintain/keep up ; they must have a line somewhere .

My worry for them is they think the regulator & this new TV deal will somehow level out the playing field ,and the game lower down will be  more sustainable in the not too distant future . I just don't see it happening and it could be the case they keep ploughing money in thinking it's coming but it never does .

Quoted from BobbyCummingsTackle

No mention of our head of recruitment in the decisions made this summer. It may not have been all Hurst's doing.

It would seem odd for the Head of Recruitment to identify a few players that have played for Hurst previously. Eastwood, Eisa, Pyke. Whoever identified Eastwood as an ideal replacement for Crocombe made a huge mistake.

Quoted from jamesgtfc

It would seem odd for the Head of Recruitment to identify a few players that have played for Hurst previously. Eastwood, Eisa, Pyke. Whoever identified Eastwood as an ideal replacement for Crocombe made a huge mistake.

And Doncaster signing some other rookie French goalkeeper from Hull City 5 games ago, as well as winger Adelakun (3 goals in 6 games) from Lincoln City on loan.  They have since won 3 games and drawn 2, before that going back for 7 losses out of 12 games with 1 win, rest draws.

Well Diehard ,i think you will find we are a very very transparent club according to Kieran Mcaguire(?),we dont owe 4million pounds as our annual debt is written off every year ! Also the profit you made would not be so ,less £3million injection and a player sale of @£300k around £2.7 million loss ,very similar to ours ! I think we made a profit 2016/17 season when we had cup fortune!

Nobody is worried about our owners ,a billionaire(im told),plus another group of americans ( worth millions) there stated as here for the long term,plus Our outstanding chairman Sir Clive Nates plus others.

There  stated aim is i repeat the Championship which i agree is an absolutely bonkers financial place .Preston i read lose £12million a year to be midtable.

Good luck saturday in your 6pointer which you wont lose or be relegated.

Quoted from jamesgtfc

It would seem odd for the Head of Recruitment to identify a few players that have played for Hurst previously. Eastwood, Eisa, Pyke. Whoever identified Eastwood as an ideal replacement for Crocombe made a huge mistake.

You are probably right but I doubt the recruitment specialist holds as much sway as people think. Any of us could identify 30 players based on a variety of reasons, but most will get better offers, they might not like the manager or his methods, they might not wish to move for a variety of reasons. A surprising number of managers and players prefer working with people they know, its just human nature I guess. Buckley used to sign loads of his players time and again as I suppose you know what you are getting.

With all that in mind and that most managers will have their own lists of players they know of and would like to sign I bet the recruitment chap primary role is to take the pressure off the manager with the enquiries and phone calls rather than actually shaping the squad, maybe with the odd unidentified target like Conteh thrown in.

Alarmed really. A lot masked by the football fortune and thank god for that and the new streaming income.

Incomes otherwise are very disappointing and have flat lined at best.

God know what next years accounts will show, but I do concern as these figures do not reflect things we know, that have gone wrong this season.

At the moment loans by 1878 Partners are not covered by any agreement and can be recalled on demand so roll on the EGM.

So how much will it cost the owners to bin the commercial manager and the recruitment manager?

JS and AP have put in 6 million no way at all
If they have where has it gone.!!!

Quoted from BobbyCummingsTackle

No mention of our head of recruitment in the decisions made this summer. It may not have been all Hurst's doing.

Interestingly though, the only player that was publicly attributed to Joe Hutchinson was Conteh, obviously he’s had a hand in others but I reckon there’s many that he didn’t have a hand in. Pyke, Eastwood, Cartwright, Eisa, Vernam were almost certainly Hursts call.

Quoted from Yoda

JS and AP have put in 6 million no way at all
If they have where has it gone.!!!

Quoted from Yoda

JS and AP have put in 6 million no way at all
If they have where has it gone.!!!

It's that 3 million they are going to write off + whatever the original payment to Dear John i said 5 to 6 million including that  ; does anybody know what the downpayment was on them buying the club from him  ?

It was 1.5 million over 3 years most was paid by player sales Dembele Grist Pollock plus increased revenue.

Quoted from David Frazer

Interesting set of accounts my fishy friends ,im no accountant so i cant really comment on them however i do note that Jason and Andrew have put in £3million ! Can you tell me the difference between them putting money into your club like ours do ?  Which is fantastic for both clubs however ours is going to finish top 10 in league 1 and yours in the bottom 4 in league2.

Mmmmmm

So shut the f**k up then.

Quoted from Yoda

It was 1.5 million over 3 years most was paid by player sales Dembele Grist Pollock plus increased revenue.

I struggle to see that someone (allegedly) struggling for liquid capital would accept a deal with no cash upfront .

Quoted from David Frazer

Well Diehard ,i think you will find we are a very very transparent club according to Kieran Mcaguire(?),we dont owe 4million pounds as our annual debt is written off every year ! Also the profit you made would not be so ,less £3million injection and a player sale of @£300k around £2.7 million loss ,very similar to ours ! I think we made a profit 2016/17 season when we had cup fortune!

Nobody is worried about our owners ,a billionaire(im told),plus another group of americans ( worth millions) there stated as here for the long term,plus Our outstanding chairman Sir Clive Nates plus others.

There  stated aim is i repeat the Championship which i agree is an absolutely bonkers financial place .Preston i read lose £12million a year to be midtable.

Good luck saturday in your 6pointer which you wont lose or be relegated.

You must be bored ? A simpleton ? Or a child ? Either way please do the world a favour and don’t have children

I thought I saw that the work to the Main Stand this summer would be another £400k+, if correct that will mean a total of close to £1.3 million has been spent of BP and Cheapside since 1878 bought the club ie - the cup run has paid for that.

A key question is once that work is done will that £400k+per annum reduce?

Quoted from Nelly GTFC

And Doncaster signing some other rookie French goalkeeper from Hull City 5 games ago, as well as winger Adelakun (3 goals in 6 games) from Lincoln City on loan.  They have since won 3 games and drawn 2, before that going back for 7 losses out of 12 games with 1 win, rest draws.

I was very surprised you didn't go for Adelakun, played in this area for Scunny and obviously us (Lincoln) - Clearly a good L2 player, just a step too far at League 1 level. He is a handful on his day that is for sure.

Quoted from nealeardleyscrossing

I was very surprised you didn't go for Adelakun, played in this area for Scunny and obviously us (Lincoln) - Clearly a good L2 player, just a step too far at League 1 level. He is a handful on his day that is for sure.

We might have done.

Clearly the cup run made a difference and the underlying picture is pretty much one of still living a bit hand to mouth but since 1878 took over better infrastructure, transparent ownership and the ghost of Fenty finally gone.I know they've had some stick but the turnaround is really good both in terms of finances and engagement.

What the accounts also say without saying it is that we must stay in the EFL.

Quoted from Hagrid

Because he's injured again.

And Im blaming Hurst for it, that okay with you? He didnt give himself a 3 year deal did he

Be fair. We’re at a level where every signing we ever make has a flaw in his game or his body or mentality.

The accounts indicate 2 glaring things in my opinion…

1) it’s incredibly difficult for us to realise the potential of the club in our current facilities.

2) Stockwood & Pettit need to crack on and find additional investors to lighten the load on them if we are continuing with the current budgets even with the expected jump in EFL TV money and PL solidarity payments (if we’re still an EFL club).

Quoted from GollyGTFC

Be fair. We’re at a level where every signing we ever make has a flaw in his game or his body or mentality.

indeed, so why give him a 3 year deal. crazy

The accounts, to me, clearly illustrate what the league position shows; a struggling League 2 club. The plan for the future looks good but it is the here and now that counts. Commercial income is slightly down but nowhere where it should be.

The club shop is doing ok and the gates are about as good as it is going to get unless there is a massive improvement in form in the last few home games. BP is swallowing cash due to an apparent lack of investment and maintenance by the last owner over the last 20 odd years

I'm sure JS & AP are aware of grants to help BP but in reality, it has had its day and we are not going to get huge streams of income from BP. Similarly, I think they will find investment income hard to find, even though JS did say earlier in his tenure that getting hold of money is easy ( or words to that effect ).

So we are where we are. A win on Saturday will certainly help the cause.

UTM

So where’s the attraction for someone to invest, if they are to put say £1 million in as an “ investment “ how do they get their money back plus a return.

To our Lincoln poster i see your massive club only got 6800 attendance last night lol
We will get more Saturday

Quoted from Limerick Mariner

I thought I saw that the work to the Main Stand this summer would be another £400k+, if correct that will mean a total of close to £1.3 million has been spent of BP and Cheapside since 1878 bought the club ie - the cup run has paid for that.

A key question is once that work is done will that £400k+per annum reduce?

Isn't there another large piece of work due at some point on The Findus ?

Quoted from Mappers

Isn't there another large piece of work due at some point on The Findus ?

I watch the games on ITV4 showing old matches, currently covering the 80/81 season, and you see grounds like Barnsley, Notts County recently Mansfield were on and you realise how much all these clubs have invested in and improved their respective grounds. I appreciate Barnsley had a brief flirtation with the Premiership but the others haven’t and it’s the same all over the country. Our newest stand is now 40 years old and doesn’t even go all the way down one side of the pitch.

We continually have threads about new ground and/or rebuilding BP but something does need to happen as the Main & Osmond stands aren’t going to last forever and if they do, eventually, get closed down for safety reasons we will be well and truly in the mire.

So will we Yoda,100%.

Just to let you know thats 129 league games since our attendances dropped below 7000 gates.We have hit alot of home games in a short space of time at the moment.

Comeback to me when you do 130!

Quoted from David Frazer

So will we Yoda,100%.

Just to let you know thats 129 league games since our attendances dropped below 7000 gates.We have hit alot of home games in a short space of time at the moment.

Comeback to me when you do 130!

What’s up ? Have you got no one else to bully when you’re not at work ?