Sweeden

After years of failed mass migration the country as finally awoken and booted out the socialists. The people have watched their once proud and peaceful country one of the safest in Europe turn into one of the most violent and dangerous. With a new centre right government the country at least now has hope.

This should be a lesson for our own liberal open door clappers that multiculturalism just doesn’t work with the outgoing PM now admitting as much, at best leading to parallel societies and at worst third world cultural domination. But maybe this is just a one off the left will cry but all eyes are now on the Italian elections….how has mass migration been treating them?

Quoted from Humbercod

After years of failed mass migration the country as finally awoken and booted out the socialists. The people have watched their once proud and peaceful country one of the safest in Europe turn into one of the most violent and dangerous. With a new centre right government the country at least now has hope.

This should be a lesson for our own liberal open door clappers that multiculturalism just doesn’t work with the outgoing PM now admitting as much, at best leading to parallel societies and at worst third world cultural domination. But maybe this is just a one off the left will cry but all eyes are now on the Italian elections….how has mass migration been treating them?

It’s difficult to compare Sweden and Italy as there are very different factors in play.

Sweden - population 10m. Number of foreign born individuals living there has doubled in the past 20 years, to 2m - 20% of the population. Even in a developed society and economy such as Sweden, those levels of immigration were always likely to cause problems, particularly in such a staid, conservative country.

Italy - Italy lurches from left to right and everything in between. The inverse happens compared to the UK, where the powerful North would like to lay the blame of the economic stagnation of the country on the South and the provinces, but can’t because they now rely on their votes.

[Truss and Rees-Mogg clearly have problems with productivity in northern England (or laziness, as they inferred) but require ‘Red Wall’ support to keep their jobs.]

Now Northern Italians can’t solely blame the South, there has to be another scapegoat…the migrants. It’s an easy win for the right-wing parties.

Most of the problems in Italy are typical of the UK and other Western European countries; ageing population, low productivity, low GDP growth, low wage growth, declining birth rates, corruption and the selfish greed of the wealthy - both on a corporate and individual level.

The main difference between the UK and Italy at the moment is that Italy has far higher levels of unemployment. Obviously, Salvini, and now Meloni, are blaming this on immigration, but even if this was the case, immigrants can’t be blamed for every economic and social problem in the country.  

I won't take seriously the views of someone who can't spell Sweden.  

Let me tell you about Sweden
The only country where the clouds are interesting.

Quoted from Humbercod

After years of failed mass migration the country as finally awoken and booted out the socialists. The people have watched their once proud and peaceful country one of the safest in Europe turn into one of the most violent and dangerous. With a new centre right government the country at least now has hope.

This should be a lesson for our own liberal open door clappers that multiculturalism just doesn’t work with the outgoing PM now admitting as much, at best leading to parallel societies and at worst third world cultural domination. But maybe this is just a one off the left will cry but all eyes are now on the Italian elections….how has mass migration been treating them?

The Social Democrats - probably nearest equivalent to our Labour Party, won 30.3% of the vote, the highest percentage by 10% and gained 7 seats. The Left Party (aka "name on the tin party") probably equivalent to a Corbyn-run Labour Party lost seats. The kingmakers appear to be the Moderate Party (probably like a Clegg-esque Liberal Party or Tories led be someone like Ken Clark), 20% of the vote, who have gone in with the Democrat Party (20% of the vote) who are (not at all like the US Demoncrats) pretty much like our current Tories. The Moderates have done this on the basis that the leader is not from the Democrats.

This is not some populist right-wing take-over. In fact, the breakdown of votes looks much where this country would be with a different electoral system. Pushing back a bit against rampant immigration yes, but with a majority in favour of social liberalism, happy to absorb Ukrainians and eastern Europeans into the work force along with genuine refugees. Instead, we are now ruled by "La Girouette de Fer" turning every which way that the 200k electorate and flat-earthers like Rees-Mogg blow her.

Unfortunately, Humbo completely misunderstands what has occurred in Sweden since the 1990s. The centre-left coalition which has been in power for a lot of the time may have continued with their socially liberal policies (including their extremely generous response to the refugee crises which have occurred) but have also continued with the neoliberal-type economic policies as seen in the UK and, unsurprisingly, their economy has been wrecked in much the same way as has ours. Increasing inequality due to the money being funnelled upwards to the wealthy, unaffordable increases in property prices (due to the wealth funnelling upwards), cuts in welfare to increase inequality further. Etc etc etc.

The economic wrecking of course leaves the population dissatisfied with the status quo and this opens the crack for the far right to agitate when problems occur due to the high levels of immigration. Pretty much a textbook example of what has led to Brexit in this country, in fact:

https://thenextrecession.wordpress.com/2018/09/10/sweden-in-deadlock/

Apparently, when people are getting shat on economically by the failing system, they are can be led to scapegoats to blame. Expect more hollowing out of the Swedish economy to occur now that the right-wingers are in charge.

As Clinton's strategist Carville noted, "Its the economy, stupid".

Quoted from Maringer

Unfortunately, Humbo completely misunderstands what has occurred in Sweden since the 1990s. The centre-left coalition which has been in power for a lot of the time may have continued with their socially liberal policies (including their extremely generous response to the refugee crises which have occurred) but have also continued with the neoliberal-type economic policies as seen in the UK and, unsurprisingly, their economy has been wrecked in much the same way as has ours. Increasing inequality due to the money being funnelled upwards to the wealthy, unaffordable increases in property prices (due to the wealth funnelling upwards), cuts in welfare to increase inequality further. Etc etc etc.

The economic wrecking of course leaves the population dissatisfied with the status quo and this opens the crack for the far right to agitate when problems occur due to the high levels of immigration. Pretty much a textbook example of what has led to Brexit in this country, in fact:

https://thenextrecession.wordpress.com/2018/09/10/sweden-in-deadlock/

Apparently, when people are getting shat on economically by the failing system, they are can be led to scapegoats to blame. Expect more hollowing out of the Swedish economy to occur now that the right-wingers are in charge.

As Clinton's strategist Carville noted, "Its the economy, stupid".

I think you’re the one with the misunderstanding…. the Swedish Democrats literally run their campaign on restricting mass migration and a crack down on crime! They even had a ‘Make Sweden safe again’ as their campaign slogan.
Do you seriously think that this wasn’t factor?

Quoted from Humbercod

I think you’re the one with the misunderstanding…. the Swedish Democrats literally run their campaign on restricting mass migration and a crack down on crime! They even had a ‘Make Sweden safe again’ as their campaign slogan.
Do you seriously think that this wasn’t factor?

No doubt it was a factor, but as usual, politicians deflect blame to a section of the populace who are an easy target and the electorate fall for it.

It's classic right wing tactics, deflecting away from the real issues of a rapidly expanding elite class and an ever growing underclass, even in a relatively stable and wealthy country.

It's not our fault we are rich and you are poor. It's the fault of those pesky immigrants. Vote for us and we will eradicate the problem.

Only they won't.

Quoted from ginnywings

No doubt it was a factor, but as usual, politicians deflect blame to a section of the populace who are an easy target and the electorate fall for it.

It's classic right wing tactics, deflecting away from the real issues of a rapidly expanding elite class and an ever growing underclass, even in a relatively stable and wealthy country.

It's not our fault we are rich and you are poor. It's the fault of those pesky immigrants. Vote for us and we will eradicate the problem.

Only they won't.

Pleased you can accept immigration was a factor all be it with gritted teeth 😀
Mass immigration has been a massive problem caused by the same elites that have been in charge of Sweden for years, the same elites the left now accuse of not being left enough! But we’re now told It’s them and their policy’s that have ruined the economy, and they are now leaving those poor immigrants to take the rap. Mass rape, gun and grenade attacks can be a problem granted but they are not as problematic as those pretend socialists.

Let’s check in on the neighbours Denmark…oh look they are also having an economic crises so how come their crime rates are much lower in comparison? could it be a crackdown on immigration? could it be to do with Denmarks low foreign background of 8% vs Sweden’s 25%?

Always found it interesting that when the neo liberal, nonsense, narcissistic and self obsessed governments like ours begin to inevitably fail it’s never their fault and the right wing are there to help apportion blame elsewhere, almost always at the feet of immigrants.

Obviously, the complex nature of the migrant issue in Italy has passed our friend by. I’d suggest he go read about it. With extreme parties on both sides in Italy it’s ridiculous to compare them to anyone else, especially given the levels of corruption and involvement of the Vatican.

If only the right wing could divert their anger towards the actual problem, they’d see that the countries they cling to, bang a drum for, in our case, dear old Blighty are being copulated by the ruling elite, not some bloke fleeing a country or someone looking to improve their life…

Quoted from aldi_01

Always found it interesting that when the neo liberal, nonsense, narcissistic and self obsessed governments like ours begin to inevitably fail it’s never their fault and the right wing are there to help apportion blame elsewhere, almost always at the feet of immigrants.

Obviously, the complex nature of the migrant issue in Italy has passed our friend by. I’d suggest he go read about it. With extreme parties on both sides in Italy it’s ridiculous to compare them to anyone else, especially given the levels of corruption and involvement of the Vatican.


If only the right wing could divert their anger towards the actual problem, they’d see that the countries they cling to, bang a drum for, in our case, dear old Blighty are being copulated by the ruling elite, not some bloke fleeing a country or someone looking to improve their life…

Your correct to call out other problems but your wrong to insinuate Immigration Is my only concern. A regular on here would know how critical I’ve been on everything from Covid policy to our loony Net Zero targets etc. I find staggering how a certain section want to just ignore and remain silent on our illegal migrant problem, but more alarmingly you find it’s the same ilk who just don’t want to acknowledge the continuity of our child rape gangs, predominantly of foreign heritage!

Italy, France, Belgium, Greece etc are all have unrepairable  problems due to mass migration all self inflicted by these ruling elites and their crazy Schengen Agreement, but somehow we’re part counting the costs.

Here's an interesting article from a Swedish academic which suggests that individual Swedes actually tend to be less liberal than you might imagine:

https://www.theguardian.com/co.....ism-election-results

As a personal anecdote, I've only been to Sweden the once, for a stag weekend, must be the best part of 20 years ago now. I liked the Swedes who I felt, culturally, were closer to the British than any other European nationality that I've encountered (the Irish aside, perhaps). On one of the nights, one of the guys with us was turned away from the nightclub we were heading into because they didn't like the way he was dressed so he had to go back to the hotel to change. The taxi driver who took him was an Iraqi who had settled in Sweden after being a refugee and they chatted on the journey as he spoke good English. It turned out that the taxi driver was actually a highly experienced engineer but wasn't able to get a job in his trade in Sweden. Whether or not this was due to qualification issues or immigration rules, I don't know, but it seemed a waste to me. I wonder if that engineer is still driving his taxi to support his family all these years later?

Quoted from Humbercod

Your correct to call out other problems but your wrong to insinuate Immigration Is my only concern. A regular on here would know how critical I’ve been on everything from Covid policy to our loony Net Zero targets etc. I find staggering how a certain section want to just ignore and remain silent on our illegal migrant problem, but more alarmingly you find it’s the same ilk who just don’t want to acknowledge the continuity of our child rape gangs, predominantly of foreign heritage!

Italy, France, Belgium, Greece etc are all have unrepairable  problems due to mass migration all self inflicted by these ruling elites and their crazy Schengen Agreement, but somehow we’re part counting the costs.

The vast majority of sexual offences against children are perpetrated by white males. There is a disproportionately large percentage of British Pakistani abusers in grooming gangs.

Being British, I don't think they can be classed as illegal migrants.

Quoted from Humbercod

Pleased you can accept immigration was a factor all be it with gritted teeth 😀
Mass immigration has been a massive problem caused by the same elites that have been in charge of Sweden for years, the same elites the left now accuse of not being left enough! But we’re now told It’s them and their policy’s that have ruined the economy, and they are now leaving those poor immigrants to take the rap. Mass rape, gun and grenade attacks can be a problem granted but they are not as problematic as those pretend socialists.

Let’s check in on the neighbours Denmark…oh look they are also having an economic crises so how come their crime rates are much lower in comparison? could it be a crackdown on immigration? could it be to do with Denmarks low foreign background of 8% vs Sweden’s 25%?

No gritted teeth here. I said it was a factor, which it clearly was, but that doesn't mean it was a legitimate reason to lay the blame for the ills of the country at the feet of immigrants.

It's a populist move by the parties to garner support by giving the electorate someone to vent their spleen at. Classic diversion from the real issues.

Wait until their population starts falling, their GDP drops, and there aren't enough young people left to fill essential jobs, they'll be opening their doors again.

Quoted from GrimRob

Wait until their population starts falling, their GDP drops, and there aren't enough young people left to fill essential jobs, they'll be opening their doors again.

Seen this somewhere before 🤔

Quoted from ginnywings

It's a populist move by the parties to garner support by giving the electorate someone to vent their spleen at. Classic diversion from the real issues.

Diversion tactics not required when the people can see with their own eyes actual gang warfare on their streets, pretty much what we have imported to all the major city's here. As the numbers grow the problems only increase, you only have to look at what’s been going on in Leicester another failure of multiculturalism at the expense of the indigenous population. Is there any wonder why so called populist movements arise.

Quoted from ginnywings

The vast majority of sexual offences against children are perpetrated by white males. There is a disproportionately large percentage of British Pakistani abusers in grooming gangs.

Being British, I don't think they can be classed as illegal migrants.

I think the point you make about white males is valid and needs to be spoken about, but I also think that by comparing with these Pakistani child rape gangs is to almost deflect the major problem of the grooming gangs.

I think it’s common knowledge that the majority of child sexual abuse happen in the home no matter what country by a family member usually a man, so in England let’s say 90% white for argument sake then obviously most offences will be white male. Then take a Ghana with 3% white population then obviously the mass majority of perpetrators will be black.
Now you cannot deny that we have anything but a major problem on a industrial scale, when only 4% of the population (which becomes 2% when you take out the women) is responsible for so many victims up and down the country in towns and city’s with Muslim populations. And it’s still going on to this day not a week goes by where men of Pakistani origin are not being sentenced (if you can call it that) for abusing vulnerable girls.

I’m not shocked anymore that certain people want to remain silent on this horrendous abuse, I’m not upset anymore that certain people want to label you a racist for even speaking about this abuse, and I’m not surprised anymore when I’m told… ‘the vast majority of sexual offences against children are perpetrated by white males’!

Love it when the anti immigration types throw the old grooming gangs argument in. It’s laughable really because it does nothing for their argument.

And besides, if they were genuinely serious about stopping immigration etc they’d be interested in taking the government down, take it out on them, get at those girl privates and the organised crime gangs making millions bringing them over on false promises. I guess they don’t want to though else they’d have to admit how reckless and embarrassing the country they claim to love it. Easier to point at the brown person…

Of course, what would people who’ve spent a career working with perpetrators and victims know about it all. Let’s just blame immigration policies that they know little about rather than looking at the actual problems and the folk who perpetuate the problems.

Again, if anyone from the anti immigration group bothered to dig in to the issue in Italy it is extremely complex, more than their one dimensional political ideology would suggest.

Keep calling lefties, wooly or bedwetters, equally the left continually calling tories scum won’t help but the public needs to give its head a wobble really…there’s thousands queueing up to see an empty box with a crown on top, a crown that is worth so much you could sell it and give every single member of the UK a million quid and still have change…all whilst they’ve spent the entire time in the queue moaning about energy prices and cost of living crisis…

Quoted from Humbercod

I think the point you make about white males is valid and needs to be spoken about, but I also think that by comparing with these Pakistani child rape gangs is to almost deflect the major problem of the grooming gangs.

I think it’s common knowledge that the majority of child sexual abuse happen in the home no matter what country by a family member usually a man, so in England let’s say 90% white for argument sake then obviously most offences will be white male. Then take a Ghana with 3% white population then obviously the mass majority of perpetrators will be black.
Now you cannot deny that we have anything but a major problem on a industrial scale, when only 4% of the population (which becomes 2% when you take out the women) is responsible for so many victims up and down the country in towns and city’s with Muslim populations. And it’s still going on to this day not a week goes by where men of Pakistani origin are not being sentenced (if you can call it that) for abusing vulnerable girls.

I’m not shocked anymore that certain people want to remain silent on this horrendous abuse, I’m not upset anymore that certain people want to label you a racist for even speaking about this abuse, and I’m not surprised anymore when I’m told… ‘the vast majority of sexual offences against children are perpetrated by white males’!

But these are second and third generation Pakistanis, who are the descendants of people invited here because of our massive labour shortages when they were still a part of our Empire. You know that Empire that is still revered by people of a right wing persuasion as being a glorious Utopian time in our history.

They may be well of a "foreign heritage" as you put it, but they are mostly not illegal migrants. They are British and were raised here. Their attitude towards women and rape not being a consideration when we needed them to fill vacancies and keep the money rolling in.

They also tend to get way more press when they are arrested than people of white heritage.There is a problem, no doubt about that, but it is not as cut and dried as you make it. A lot of this started with a report by the Quilliam Foundation ( look them up, they were a fun bunch) who had an anti Muslim agenda and highlighted the involvement of Pakistani Muslims in grooming gangs to the exclusion of other ethnicities involved in similar activities.

Their findings were later debunked somewhat by a government report that wasn't widely publicised, probably because the foundation was part funded by the Home Office and also by Tea Party Republicans.

What's your solution then Humbo? Is it just to stop allowing Muslims from migrating here or do you want to round them all up and kick them all out?

Funny really that the Brexit you voted for has actually seen an increase in non-european migrants.

Quoted from aldi_01

Love it when the anti immigration types throw the old grooming gangs argument in. It’s laughable really because it does nothing for their argument.

And besides, if they were genuinely serious about stopping immigration etc they’d be interested in taking the government down, take it out on them, get at those girl privates and the organised crime gangs making millions bringing them over on false promises. I guess they don’t want to though else they’d have to admit how reckless and embarrassing the country they claim to love it. Easier to point at the brown person…

Of course, what would people who’ve spent a career working with perpetrators and victims know about it all. Let’s just blame immigration policies that they know little about rather than looking at the actual problems and the folk who perpetuate the problems.

Again, if anyone from the anti immigration group bothered to dig in to the issue in Italy it is extremely complex, more than their one dimensional political ideology would suggest.

Keep calling lefties, wooly or bedwetters, equally the left continually calling tories scum won’t help but the public needs to give its head a wobble really…there’s thousands queueing up to see an empty box with a crown on top, a crown that is worth so much you could sell it and give every single member of the UK a million quid and still have change…all whilst they’ve spent the entire time in the queue moaning about energy prices and cost of living crisis…

Fair point ..I raised the grooming gang problem as lack of acknowledgment. I would imagine there is a greater concern amongst the population for the current illegal invasion and grooming gangs then say the climate emergency.

Let’s be honest it doesn’t matter who is in charge Cons, Lab, Lib the problems above would continue I’m sure you know that!

I’ve already talked about those including yourself that work with all those involved on another thread and it’s certainly not a job I would want, why do they target vulnerable white girls anyway? Is it just a cultural thing, or is it not the black and white? One thing for sure a hell of a lot more needs doing because the abuse continues.

Agree with what you’re saying at the end.

It makes the news if it’s vulnerable white girls.  But isn’t it the truth that it’s the vulnerable that’s preyed on in general because we live in a society dominated by the rich who can’t see past their own ego’s?

Today we’ve witnessed the elitist in our country saying their farewell’s to the head of the elite.  Tomorrow I’d like to see the beginning of the end of the elites, there will never be a fair society while sections of it believe they are better.

Thanks for the Red Cross whoever it was.  Not sure if it was my comment on vulnerable people or my clear views on the waste of monarchy (see what I did there?).  Either way I’ll regard it as a badge of honour fully deserved.

Let me ask you a question, how many people that the queen allegedly served were invited to her funeral?  For clarity can we ignore those who were simply expected to turn up due to being ‘subjects’.  How do you serve a subject by the way, sounds like a fûcking huge contradiction to me?

For my final act.  I’ve just won a tidy sum on the lottery and have a chance to leave a final mark on the world before I depart.  I can’t take the money with me so I’d like as many to benefit as possible, so fishies, how do I spend the money:-

1.  Give £12m to charity which I’ve championed my entire life.
2.  Spend it paying off someone my sons allegedly never met to avoid him going to court on an accusation of molesting an underage girl.

This is a real tough one for me.

Actually, it’s late lates.  When one’s home got slightly burnt I paid £2m out of my own pocket to put it right.  The other £34m was paid by my loyal subjects in fees to see how us elitists live (not the real elite bits obviously).  To dampen the mood of the great unwashed I declared that I would now pay tax, I stopped short of inheritance tax though.  Big win for all my hangers on (family). We earn nothing so wouldn’t pay tax anyway, it’s an allowance you see, not an income.

Quoted from Humbercod

Fair point ..I raised the grooming gang problem as lack of acknowledgment. I would imagine there is a greater concern amongst the population for the current illegal invasion and grooming gangs then say the climate emergency.

Let’s be honest it doesn’t matter who is in charge Cons, Lab, Lib the problems above would continue I’m sure you know that!

I’ve already talked about those including yourself that work with all those involved on another thread and it’s certainly not a job I would want, why do they target vulnerable white girls anyway? Is it just a cultural thing, or is it not the black and white? One thing for sure a hell of a lot more needs doing because the abuse continues.

Agree with what you’re saying at the end.

There is a certain amount of rape perpetrated by Muslims on Kaffirs (non Muslims) that is based on religious and racial prejudices, which is kind of ironic. It's a cultural thing which is practiced by certain Muslims who interpret the scriptures in a certain way and believe they are inflicting shame and humiliation on non believers of the true faith.

However, claiming that grooming gangs is a Muslim problem was debunked by a home office report in 2020. As ever, a lack of funding adds to the problem, as it does in many areas of public services.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/19/home-office-report-grooming-gangs-not-muslim

Quoted from ginnywings

However, claiming that grooming gangs is a Muslim problem was debunked by a home office report in 2020. As ever, a lack of funding adds to the problem, as it does in many areas of public services.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/19/home-office-report-grooming-gangs-not-muslim

https://amp.theguardian.com/so.....loited-inquiry-finds