Tested positive !

Quoted from Roast Em Bobby

Read or listen to the book I quoted above and then come back with a proper argument, because economic ruin is a false argument.

Tell all the people that are pushed into poverty and out of work how it's a false argument. There's a chance my company won't exist in 12 months time and it has been making record profits every year for 10 years until this happened. Millions of people globally are going to die as a result of the economic impact, I expect more than actually die of the virus. Yes, we need to protect the vulnerable, but we don't need society to shut down completely for it to happen.

Quoted from LH

Hand sanitiser doesn’t go as far in Scunthorpe so it can be difficult to remain covid safe. ✋☝️

This one , the one you quoted

Quoted from pen penfras

Tell all the people that are pushed into poverty and out of work how it's a false argument. There's a chance my company won't exist in 12 months time and it has been making record profits every year for 10 years until this happened. Millions of people globally are going to die as a result of the economic impact, I expect more than actually die of the virus. Yes, we need to protect the vulnerable, but we don't need society to shut down completely for it to happen.

Reality has never been a strong point of the denier argument. They seem to have fixated on a notion we can simply turn a consumer economy on its head and pay folks to work from home unless they are in a service industry, forgetting it is the money from companies like yours that has so far financed things like paid leave directly or indirectly. But how long can that go on? Oh I know, let’s do some “easing”, we don’t need cash or collateral for that do we?  That situation is bad enough for us but I bet places like China won’t stand for it for long and that is what will make the worldwide difference.

Quoted from pen penfras

Tell all the people that are pushed into poverty and out of work how it's a false argument. There's a chance my company won't exist in 12 months time and it has been making record profits every year for 10 years until this happened. Millions of people globally are going to die as a result of the economic impact, I expect more than actually die of the virus. Yes, we need to protect the vulnerable, but we don't need society to shut down completely for it to happen.

Sorry, perhaps my previous post was rather flippant. However, the point is that the government could (and should imho) be supporting your business until the pandemic is over. The common belief that the government cannot afford to do so, because it will increase the deficit (and saddle RRFC's grand children with the debt) is the myth part, and this is explained in the book I referenced. The author of the book and many other progressive economists around the world, see Modern Monetary Theory as the only way forward. This is not some crackpot "lefty" view, it has been thoroughly analysed by many economists worldwide.

As an example, the Treasury issued 330 billion pounds of bonds/gilts after the financial crisis. These were then bought up by the Bank of England, so the government (which owns the Bank of England) owes itself 330 billion - so basically it's a paper exercise that has no effect on anyone.

The costs of all the government schemes related to Covid support is around 10-12% of the £330 billion previously created, and there is no good reason (other than Political Ideology) why they could not continue to support people and businesses affected by Covid. However, they would rather smash the economy and have record unemployment levels for the next few years than admit that having a "on-paper" deficit doesn't cause any problems at all.

I'm sure nobody on here will take my word for it, so read the book I mentioned or start reading up on Modern Monetary Theory.

Quoted from supertown

This one , the one you quoted

Thats the one, it only looks like one hand with 5 fingers to me (I haven't a clue what the other thingy is)

[quote=1497
The author of the book and many other progressive economists around the world, see Modern Monetary Theory as the only way forward. This is not some crackpot "lefty" view, it has been thoroughly analysed by many economists worldwide.

As an example, the Treasury issued 330 billion pounds of bonds/gilts after the financial crisis. These were then bought up by the Bank of England, so the government (which owns the Bank of England) owes itself 330 billion - so basically it's a paper exercise that has no effect on anyone.

The costs of all the government schemes related to Covid support is around 10-12% of the £330 billion previously created, and there is no good reason (other than Political Ideology) why they could not continue to support people and businesses affected by Covid.
I'm sure nobody on here will take my word for it, so read the book I mentioned or start reading up on Modern Monetary Theory.


[/quote]

I’m fairly certain Governments printing money endlessly has been tried a few times over the years.  Sometimes it doesn’t end well.

Not suggesting that we do endlessly print money, because that would cause inflation. However, even economists opposed to MMT admit that it causes no problems at all when inflation is running at zero percent and the economy is in a deep recession, which we are likely to be for the foreseeable future.

Quoted from Roast Em Bobby

Sorry, perhaps my previous post was rather flippant. However, the point is that the government could (and should imho) be supporting your business until the pandemic is over. The common belief that the government cannot afford to do so, because it will increase the deficit (and saddle RRFC's grand children with the debt) is the myth part, and this is explained in the book I referenced. The author of the book and many other progressive economists around the world, see Modern Monetary Theory as the only way forward. This is not some crackpot "lefty" view, it has been thoroughly analysed by many economists worldwide.

As an example, the Treasury issued 330 billion pounds of bonds/gilts after the financial crisis. These were then bought up by the Bank of England, so the government (which owns the Bank of England) owes itself 330 billion - so basically it's a paper exercise that has no effect on anyone.

The costs of all the government schemes related to Covid support is around 10-12% of the £330 billion previously created, and there is no good reason (other than Political Ideology) why they could not continue to support people and businesses affected by Covid. However, they would rather smash the economy and have record unemployment levels for the next few years than admit that having a "on-paper" deficit doesn't cause any problems at all.

I'm sure nobody on here will take my word for it, so read the book I mentioned or start reading up on Modern Monetary Theory.

This is only half of the issue. Anyone can print money and keep an artificial economy going on furloughs and benefits. That is not hard. The other half of it is the actual jobs lost permanently because the demand for them will never come back, the impact on a consumer society that needs a supply of consumables to survive and the personal, social and psychological impacts of keeping people isolated for a very prolonged period.

We have people who want to keep the status quo for a variety of reasons. Some are genuinely frightened, some are doing OK with a nice home working balance and a better income without a commute, some are jus keen to see the government fall at every hurdle. These are more important than money printing and they need resolving fast. It is not enough to keep saying we follow the science, we have to follow our noses and take responsibility for ourselves and stop using Covid as a useful coverall excuse for everything from football to classrooms.

The coming unemployment crisis will be a result of government ideology and nothing more. Hundreds of billions of pounds has been created out of thin air and used to prop up the likes of Harvester and Starbucks.

There is plenty of work to DO in this country - a housing crisis, coming environmental disaster, crumbling national infrastructure. The right thing to do would be to create decent, secure, long-term employment in these industries.

What you’ll get is the propping up of a failing economic model based on services and rent seeking because that’s where the biggest margins can be made and it keeps the proles in their place.

Quoted from ska face

The coming unemployment crisis will be a result of government ideology and nothing more. Hundreds of billions of pounds has been created out of thin air and used to prop up the likes of Harvester and Starbucks.

There is plenty of work to DO in this country - a housing crisis, coming environmental disaster, crumbling national infrastructure. The right thing to do would be to create decent, secure, long-term employment in these industries.

What you’ll get is the propping up of a failing economic model based on services and rent seeking because that’s where the biggest margins can be made and it keeps the proles in their place.

OK argue that. Your privilege. We can have an election on it if you want. Just don’t use Covid as an excuse for doing it like the head of the Civil Service union was doing the other day..