Contracts and squad rebuild

I'd be interested in other peoples view regarding the need for such a dramtic rebuild of the squad and what people think of our contract renewal policy. I think PH may have decided early on that he wanted to go with a 4-3-3 formation this season or a derivative of it. But did we really need to release so many lads that had done us proud? Only pre season I know but I am not convinced by this new squad of players, I am worried we will struggle going on what I have seen so far. I am not convinced PH will be able to get his players to buy into a 4-3-3 seeing as he signed Frankie Artus, and Paddy Mccaughlin to play in a three man midfield before having to abandon it shortly afterwards then had those two as square pegs in round holes for the rest of their days at BP.

I am upset we have lost the majority of our promotion winning squad. I don't believe we needed this massive rebuild. I'd have liked to keep Nathan, Padraig and Craig Clay. Happy to lose Nsalia and Robertson (with a heavy heart). I understand Tait moving to the SPL, gutted to lose Nolan to a league one club but those I can understand why we couldn't compete. I am still angry we allowed Amond, a 37 goal centre forward to move on to a smaller club. The way he left after being offered a two year deal in January then going on to bag 37 goals and the club offering a ONE year deal in June is clearly a urine take by the club. If we are moving to a 4-3-3 then maybe Padraig wouldn't have fitted in? He'd played there for Morcambe, when he'd played there for us he did look ineffective.

I just think we handle contract negotions badly, perhaps as JF has had his hands burned in the past and had to pay off clowns. We hear of take it or leave it time limited offers, where if we were to negotiate slightly or try to accomodate a request or so maybe we would be able to keep proven assets like Carl Magnay, Jon Nolan (who could have been offered an extension after a few weeks of being here) and Richard Tait. We don't seem to reward excellence by tying players down to contracts mid season.

Wanted to keep Clay but happy to lose Toto? Don't get that at all as Toto has far more potential than Clay for all of his efforts. I'd have liked Amond to stay but I trust PH.

Only time will tell if we have done the right thing or not.

An excellent post BPV. I do feel we will see a shift to 4-4-2 for most games by mid-October.

However, I believe that 'accommodating requests' is a slippery slope and negotiating with some and offering extensions mid-season could impact on squad harmony and morale. Granted, we run the risk of losing players many would have liked to have kept (Nolan and Amond). I still think, as a general policy at this level, waiting until the season has finished is preferable.

I must admit to being more than a bit concerned about us at the moment. I know it's only pre-season and I haven't actually seen us play yet. But we seem to be struggling. I just hope it all starts to come together pretty soon.

"We hear of take it or leave it offers" Do you? Where, down the pub or the docks?

Amond clearly didn't want to negotiate, silence for a month and not returning calls from the Club. Think he made his mind up once his pal Toto was going. Don't think Town let him go think he went of his own accord.
As far as I am aware, JF and the board give PH a budget and he splits it how he chooses, I.e. £1000 pw for his first choice striker, £600 for a wide midfielder, £250 for a young pro and if he saves a little on one spot he has a little more room for another. Provided the spend is within budget then the board let the manager get on with it, and so they should, no manager at our level would put up with interference on who they can sign and who they cant

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

Wanted to keep Clay but happy to lose Toto? Don't get that at all as Toto has far more potential than Clay for all of his efforts. I'd have liked Amond to stay but I trust PH.

I think Clay would have been ideal to sit in front of the back four in this 4-3-3 if that's how he goes. Mcallister is a better passer of the ball from what I've seen but given the size of our squad, I'd have kept Clay to push him and to give different options depending on how the game is going. I think there is a player in there who has a fair amount of development in him.

As far as Toto goes, from the outside looking in he seems to have a lot of growing up to do. Honestly, don't want to stir the hornets nest again but I really don't believe his version of events at Halfax either and he's always got that gaff in him.

The standard of football I`ve seen so far this season is way beyond that was on offer last season so we have taken an upward movement in that respect, however its a new team and is still finding its feet regarding gelling ( horrible word).

Thats the reason IMO for a weaker defence pre season plus the amount of changes made during the match to try out new ideas and to give everyone the chance for fitness and to shine.
The same for the attacking threat, its still there but needs work, with the midfield being the top scorers so far.

To say or suggest that Podge will repeat his exploits for Hartlepool this coming season is premature, as it seems from their forum that he is not doing too well and has more competition for his place than he had here.
Toto on the other hand apart from being skinned three times by Sunderland is doing OK.

Its early days yet before the season starts to look for comparisons to last season and ex players, In Hurst we trust, because his track record so far has only been plus.

I liked Craig Clay but he isn't in the same league as McAlister. I understand everyone saying Toto will be a big miss but we need to remember that Toto made many errors in many games that wouldn't go unpunished at a higher level plus he wasn't the greatest passer of a ball. At the risk of upsetting a few, I would rather he was here than Shaun.

Quoted from Garth

In Hurst we trust, because his track record so far has only been plus.

Good post, but am I alone in thinking PH's record is just about average really. We never really looked like winning the league at any point over his sole and the joint managerial partnership. When you keep knocking at the door, eventually someone will answer. Minimum expectations at this club at that level were play offs, he's never exceeded minimum expectations and gets a lot of the supporters backs up. He has credit in the bank now, but wait until we lose five on the bounce.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

I liked Craig Clay but he isn't in the same league as McAlister. I understand everyone saying Toto will be a big miss but we need to remember that Toto made many errors in many games that wouldn't go unpunished at a higher level plus he wasn't the greatest passer of a ball. At the risk of upsetting a few, I would rather he was here than Shaun.

Well you have upset me, for heading the ball, toughness and sheer reliability even if not as fast as mistake a match Toto, my vote goes to Shaun.

Quoted from 75

I'd be interested in other peoples view regarding the need for such a dramtic rebuild of the squad and what people think of our contract renewal policy. I think PH may have decided early on that he wanted to go with a 4-3-3 formation this season or a derivative of it. But did we really need to release so many lads that had done us proud? Only pre season I know but I am not convinced by this new squad of players, I am worried we will struggle going on what I have seen so far. I am not convinced PH will be able to get his players to buy into a 4-3-3 seeing as he signed Frankie Artus, and Paddy Mccaughlin to play in a three man midfield before having to abandon it shortly afterwards then had those two as square pegs in round holes for the rest of their days at BP.

I am upset we have lost the majority of our promotion winning squad. I don't believe we needed this massive rebuild. I'd have liked to keep Nathan, Padraig and Craig Clay. Happy to lose Nsalia and Robertson (with a heavy heart). I understand Tait moving to the SPL, gutted to lose Nolan to a league one club but those I can understand why we couldn't compete. I am still angry we allowed Amond, a 37 goal centre forward to move on to a smaller club. The way he left after being offered a two year deal in January then going on to bag 37 goals and the club offering a ONE year deal in June is clearly a urine take by the club. If we are moving to a 4-3-3 then maybe Padraig wouldn't have fitted in? He'd played there for Morcambe, when he'd played there for us he did look ineffective.

I just think we handle contract negotions badly, perhaps as JF has had his hands burned in the past and had to pay off clowns. We hear of take it or leave it time limited offers, where if we were to negotiate slightly or try to accomodate a request or so maybe we would be able to keep proven assets like Carl Magnay, Jon Nolan (who could have been offered an extension after a few weeks of being here) and Richard Tait. We don't seem to reward excellence by tying players down to contracts mid season.

I think your post reinforces the old adage that we all have differing opinions on players. The players you mention helped us to a poor 4th in non league so I can totally understand the need to re build the squad for a division (and a good deal more quality) above.

Time will tell but had we kept the same squad and then did badly, people would be screaming at the lack of ambition so you cannot win I suppose.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

I think your post reinforces the old adage that we all have differing opinions on players. The players you mention helped us to a poor 4th in non league so I can totally understand the need to re build the squad for a division (and a good deal more quality) above.

Time will tell but had we kept the same squad and then did badly, people would be screaming at the lack of ambition so you cannot win I suppose.

I can understand that point of view.

And 21 points behind the champions of course. I just think the manager has gone too far, clearly we did need an overhaul but did we need such wholesale changes? And how did our position over contract renewals influence the shape of the new squad?

Like you say, time will tell.

Quoted from Garth

Well you have upset me, for heading the ball, toughness and sheer reliability even if not as fast as mistake a match Toto, my vote goes to Shaun.

I understand that - just think that Shaun will get found out in this league.

Quoted from 75

Good post, but am I alone in thinking PH's record is just about average really. We never really looked like winning the league at any point over his sole and the joint managerial partnership. When you keep knocking at the door, eventually someone will answer. Minimum expectations at this club at that level were play offs, he's never exceeded minimum expectations and gets a lot of the supporters backs up. He has credit in the bank now, but wait until we lose five on the bounce.

I think there's a bit of a contradiction in your posts. If last season was average, meeting minimum expectations etc, why would you wish we'd kept that squad together for a shot at a higher league? I think the easy thing for PH to do would've been to keep far more of last seasons squad but he's rebuilt for a higher league. Higher risk but higher potential reward maybe?

The squad we have now (with vernon or another target man) plus toto almond and nolan would have been one hell of a squad

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

I think there's a bit of a contradiction in your posts. If last season was average, meeting minimum expectations etc, why would you wish we'd kept that squad together for a shot at a higher league? I think the easy thing for PH to do would've been to keep far more of last seasons squad but he's rebuilt for a higher league. Higher risk but higher potential reward maybe?

Sorry, you miss my point. I believe the manager has been average throughout his tenure, not the players.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

I understand that - just think that Shaun will get found out in this league.

I think he will exel. He is excellent at reading the game, wins his headers, makes his clearances and leads by example. I think we missed him through the spine of the team last season. Especially away from home when you need your lads to stand up and win their battles. Shaun knows his limitations, which is another strength of his. He is good at what he does and I hope he will be a key player next season for us.

Aside from Toto and Amond, i'm not fussed about any of the others apart from Tait and Nolan but both of those were understandable from the players point of view and i wish them well. I still don't understand why people held Clay in such high regard. He was bang average for me and has been replaced with better. My only concern with all the departures is the loss of squad unity, which is what usually gives a team momentum when they start to move upwards. The usual scenario is to replace players gradually as you move up the pyramid, but Hurst has just gone for it wholesale; some of it by choice and some of it where the choice has been made for him. He did say that whatever happened last year, the squad needed a shake up as players get stale listening to the same old message.

I've been a critic of Hurst but he has got all his teams promoted (eventually) and for me he deserves a season of re-assessment and re-building to see how he goes at this higher level. It's new to him too but he strikes me as a man who is single minded in what he does. Unless we are in danger at the wrong end of the table, i am just going to sit back and see what happens, hopefully watching a better standard of football along the way.

Got to say I would rather have kept Toto than Gowling who had an absolutely shocking end to the season from what I saw

I'm sorry to say it, i think money played a part in both Toto and Amond going, i don't think even if we'd offered podge a 2-year deal at the end of the season he'd have stayed. I think their reasons are just smoke and mirrors behind the real motivation. Hartlepool obviously have a decent budget, and if somebody offered you £300 a week more, what would you do? You've just got to thank them for what they did in the past, and whilst they're proving difficult to replace (together with Nolan), you've got to put a line through it. Of the others East and Clay could of still played bit parts, together with Arnold, they however weren't offered contracts, but probably deserved another year, whilst Nathan decided to move on. Time will tell how good their replacements are, lets be positive and just wait and see.

Quoted from Grimbiggs

I'm sorry to say it, i think money played a part in both Toto and Amond going, i don't think even if we'd offered podge a 2-year deal at the end of the season he'd have stayed. I think their reasons are just smoke and mirrors behind the real motivation. Hartlepool obviously have a decent budget, and if somebody offered you £300 a week more, what would you do? You've just got to thank them for what they did in the past, and whilst they're proving difficult to replace (together with Nolan), you've got to put a line through it. Of the others East and Clay could of still played bit parts, together with Arnold, they however weren't offered contracts, but probably deserved another year, whilst Nathan decided to move on. Time will tell how good their replacements are, lets be positive and just wait and see.

It was more than that..

Hartlepool have taken a massive risk budget wise for Amond that I wouldn't have wanted PH to do. Think we'll be better balanced with Bogle, Vernon and Jackson..

Quoted from Cloudy

"We hear of take it or leave it offers" Do you? Where, down the pub or the docks?

Amond clearly didn't want to negotiate, silence for a month and not returning calls from the Club. Think he made his mind up once his pal Toto was going. Don't think Town let him go think he went of his own accord.
As far as I am aware, JF and the board give PH a budget and he splits it how he chooses, I.e. £1000 pw for his first choice striker, £600 for a wide midfielder, £250 for a young pro and if he saves a little on one spot he has a little more room for another. Provided the spend is within budget then the board let the manager get on with it, and so they should, no manager at our level would put up with interference on who they can sign and who they cant

If only we knew the facts