Bosman ruling

Any chance of this loathsome rule being wiped out in the UK?  More than any other change in the last 40 years it takes money away smaller teams, and favours the bigger sides. If and when  them time comes when this rule is not binding, I wonder if it could be written into the constitution that football is different to other "normal" jobs.

I thought the whole point the Bosman ruling existed was because football was different to other jobs.

You effectively had clubs holding onto player registrations and forcing them to resign with them, or face having no income.

Whilst it is never great to lose a player on a free, nobody should be tied to their company once their contract has finished.

You used to have to offer them at least the same terms other they were free to leave.

Yes but it wasn't bought into to favour the big clubs it just does. The smaller clubs themselves very rarely have to pay a transfer fee these days either.

I don't really see a reason to abolish the ruling even if we can. Why shouldn't a professional footballer enjoy the same rights as you and I?

Since it was a decision of the European Court of Justice, if and when we leave the EU, and depending on the terms which are negotiated, it would be possible to overturn the Bosman ruling.

There could (and probably will) be an end to the free movement of labour between EU countries and the UK which would mean that players like Akpa Akpro or Ivano Bonnetti would need to get a work permit before being able to play for an English club. Presumably Premier League clubs (who were all for Remain) won't be able to import European players with the impunity they can now and so there may be all sorts of consequences.

On the other hand I suspect that the UK courts will be reluctant to reimpose the restrictive arrangements that applied pre-Bosman to domestic players, given that we seem to prefer free trade and a lack of restrictions on employment.

Quoted from GrimRob

Any chance of this loathsome rule being wiped out in the UK?  More than any other change in the last 40 years it takes money away smaller teams, and favours the bigger sides. If and when  them time comes when this rule is not binding, I wonder if it could be written into the constitution that football is different to other "normal" jobs.

Unlikely. The rule is instigated by FIFA and UEFA. We'd have to leave both for it to be changed.

So do we get any money for Toto then ?

Quoted from grimsby pete

So do we get any money for Toto then ?

No - he's over 24.

Quoted from bax

Unlikely. The rule is instigated by FIFA and UEFA. We'd have to leave both for it to be changed.

How would FIFA enforce it? It's a freedom of movement issue which would not longer apply to the UK if we go full exit,

I don't think it's anything to do with EUFA or FIFA it's a ruling by the European Supreme Court and doesn't apply outside of Europe as far as I can tell. English clubs will also be able to have quotas for non-British players if they wish (instead of EU) , no need for academy sides then  

Yeah, it was a court ruling on Jean-Marc Bosman's claim for freedom of movement between jobs ( a right enshrined in EU law the the old contract retention system in football contravened). After the ruling clubs could no longer demand a fee for out of contract players, which meant players could negotiate better wages.

Is he any good, this Bosman fella? I mean, CHDAJATL?

Quoted from Biccys

Is he any good, this Bosman fella? I mean, CHDAJATL?

Spotted my first CHDAJATL of the season. It's getting earlier and earlier each year. Must be global warming.

So, is it fair that an out of contract player can just leave a club without someone paying a fee for him to the current club? I'm not looking for regulations or legislation, I'm interested to know people's personal opinions.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Yeah, it was a court ruling on Jean-Marc Bosman's claim for freedom of movement between jobs ( a right enshrined in EU law the the old contract retention system in football contravened). After the ruling clubs could no longer demand a fee for out of contract players, which meant players could negotiate better wages.

Yes I know that! But the ruling was adopted by FIFA and UEFA, same way as the transfer window actually restricts freedom of movement yet is still a FIFA rule.

Yes, in theory, if we came out of the EU we wouldn't need to abide by the Bosman ruling. But it would still be a FIFA and UEFA rule which clubs would still have to abide by unless they are no longer in competitions governed by those organisations.

Quoted from bax

Yes I know that! But the ruling was adopted by FIFA and UEFA, same way as the transfer window actually restricts freedom of movement yet is still a FIFA rule.

Yes, in theory, if we came out of the EU we wouldn't need to abide by the Bosman ruling. But it would still be a FIFA and UEFA rule which clubs would still have to abide by unless they are no longer in competitions governed by those organisations.

Didn't realise they'd actually written it into their rules.

So far no one has tested the transfer window's legality. I guess the EC are not prioritising it and just leaving it to individuals to take up a case.

Quoted from Tinymariner

So, is it fair that an out of contract player can just leave a club without someone paying a fee for him to the current club? I'm not looking for regulations or legislation, I'm interested to know people's personal opinions.

Yes. On the whole it's fair. The opposite is a modified form of indentured labour.

My reservation is about clubs that develop talent having their investment snatched away - something which the carve out on young players attempts to rectify. But in other industries there is no protection for the employer who trains young people, unlike the old old days when you were 'bound an apprentice for 7 years'.

My personal view is I would like to see less European players and managers coming into the countey,

The days of an ENGLISH club being managed by a coach from abroad selecting non English players will only be better for the national side,


A limit of 5 players per team will be fair giving our own grown players a better chance of making it in the game,

It will also help bring down the silly money being paid to the top players,

So Man U and C, Chelsea ect will not be able to compete with Barca and Real, who cares ?

Quoted from grimsby pete

My personal view is I would like to see less European players and managers coming into the countey,

The days of an ENGLISH club being managed by a coach from abroad selecting non English players will only be better for the national side,


A limit of 5 players per team will be fair giving our own grown players a better chance of making it in the game,

It will also help bring down the silly money being paid to the top players,

So Man U and C, Chelsea ect will not be able to compete with Barca and Real, who cares ?

Because of course the England national team was amazing during the 70's and 80's when foreign players were a rarity in our teams.

My own personal view is that if an English player is good enough, then he will force himself past the foreigners. Maybe part of the problem is the amount of money the young players are paid and so they dont push themselves.

A young player even being paid 10k a week (of which there are several) can potentially be set for life on a 3 year deal, providing they are sensible with the money. Why would they want to push themselves, unless they have the motivation to be the best, which lets be honest very few actually have.

Quoted from biggles9999

Because of course the England national team was amazing during the 70's and 80's when foreign players were a rarity in our teams.

My own personal view is that if an English player is good enough, then he will force himself past the foreigners. Maybe part of the problem is the amount of money the young players are paid and so they dont push themselves.

A young player even being paid 10k a week (of which there are several) can potentially be set for life on a 3 year deal, providing they are sensible with the money. Why would they want to push themselves, unless they have the motivation to be the best, which lets be honest very few actually have.

O h it must be an English thing then,

Only non English players push themselves to be the very best,

I did not know that,

Seriously I do not miss seeing   Ronaldo, and co playing in our country,

I am only interested in Town players and the top English players getting plenty of game time in the Prem,

This must be the first English squad that are not all automatic choices for their club team.

Quoted from grimsby pete

O h it must be an English thing then,

Only non English players push themselves to be the very best,

I did not know that,

Seriously I do not miss seeing   Ronaldo, and co playing in our country,

I am only interested in Town players and the top English players getting plenty of game time in the Prem,

This must be the first English squad that are not all automatic choices for their club team.

Not what I said, I said it was down to money. Our young players are paid far more than young players in the rest of the world.

Thats a simple fact and is partly because of the amount of money in the British game.

There are players playing in the Championship that are being paid more money than players at Valencia, Villareal, most of the French league and AC Milan.

My point was (I thought it was clear) that players are set for life at a very young age and this therefore removes one of the motivators to 'make it' as a footballer. For the same reason that you generally see more footballers being produced from areas that are traditionally of poorer backgrounds. And this is nothing to do with 'British' players either, how many young players come through our ranks of any nationality?


On another note, which of the players arent automatic choices for their club sides? I can only think of Rashford potentially and he was as close to a first choice as you get under LvG. Maybe Wilshere but thats as much down to his injuries I suspect. All the others are in the starting XI when they are available.

England are excrement, just like they always have been for the past god knows how many years with the exception of 1966 and maybe a few years after.  We were excrement pre-Bosman and we're excrement post-Bosman.  Our inability to produce decent sides is nothing to do with foreign players, it's far deeper than that.  You can point to the Academy set-ups if you like, I would go even deeper and say that our culture is completely wrong.  1) We suck the life out of the joy of football for kids, although I appreciate this is slowly changing there's still large elements of over enthusiastic parents living their lives vicariously through their children.  2) We've had Government after Government, school after school, council after council sell off playing fields.  Unless it's an organised game, kids don't have that many places to play football.  Kids will learn far more about the game by kicking a ball amongst mates then they will in structured environments.   The structure will come much later, let them enjoy the bloody game.

Really grates with me that we still hark back to achievements of something 50 years ago as if it gives us a god given right to to win tournaments.  Since 1966 we've reached two semi-finals.  1990 where we slipped through the group thanks to a single goal victory against the all-conquering Egypt side.  In the next round we rode our look against Belgium who hit the post god knows how many times and then against Cameroon we were five minutes from going out.  1996 was great and captured the imagination but the Scotland side we beat were junk, Holland were in complete disarray (although it still remains one of my favourite England performances) and then we needed penalties to beat Spain.

Quoted from diehardmariner

England are excrement, just like they always have been for the past god knows how many years with the exception of 1966 and maybe a few years after.  We were excrement pre-Bosman and we're excrement post-Bosman.  Our inability to produce decent sides is nothing to do with foreign players, it's far deeper than that.  You can point to the Academy set-ups if you like, I would go even deeper and say that our culture is completely wrong.  1) We suck the life out of the joy of football for kids, although I appreciate this is slowly changing there's still large elements of over enthusiastic parents living their lives vicariously through their children.  2) We've had Government after Government, school after school, council after council sell off playing fields.  Unless it's an organised game, kids don't have that many places to play football.  Kids will learn far more about the game by kicking a ball amongst mates then they will in structured environments.   The structure will come much later, let them enjoy the bloody game.

Really grates with me that we still hark back to achievements of something 50 years ago as if it gives us a god given right to to win tournaments.  Since 1966 we've reached two semi-finals.  1990 where we slipped through the group thanks to a single goal victory against the all-conquering Egypt side.  In the next round we rode our look against Belgium who hit the post god knows how many times and then against Cameroon we were five minutes from going out.  1996 was great and captured the imagination but the Scotland side we beat were junk, Holland were in complete disarray (although it still remains one of my favourite England performances) and then we needed penalties to beat Spain.

And in both of these tournaments we won a total of 3 games. 1 in '90 aginst Egypt and then 2 in '96 (Scotland and Holland).