Ive just heard about the 2 lads today

RIP

Quoted from MarinerWY

But it's not the root of the problem at all. It's a primitive and illogical product of the "war on drugs".

The root of the problem is prohibition. Decriminalise, regulate, and get rid of the illegal trade.

Or even if you agree with drugs prohibition (which causes more harm than the drugs themselves) surely you can accept that the "root" of the problem is demand? Destroy as many poppy fields as you like, but as long as the demand is there, somebody will always find a way to supply. That's the way capitalism works, and the drugs trade is neoliberalism and capitalist at it's most pure - it is devoid of regulation of any kind.

Meanwhile we're pushing more people to join the militant operations fighting against our occupation, and leaving those with no social security with little choice but to reluctantly be aided by the Taliban. But excrement, there's no more heroin in our country right? Wrong. People will always demand it. And whilst it's prohibited, that demand will come from illegal trade. Decriminalise. Regulate heavily. Don't believe the shite about destroying the poppy fields to end the heroin trade, anyone with any intelligence knows that is not logical.

There are political reasons behind this war that have nothing to do with our best interests as a population. We are there to gain a stronghold in the middle east, in preparation for the next stand-off between the powerful nations.

So you're happy to legalise heroin as long as it's regulated (and presumably taxed)? I think you'll be in a very small minority there..

Of course there's heroin in our country. And yes, there always will be. But should we not attempt to stop it? Growing poppy's in Afghanistan IS ILLEGAL. And drug use is also counter to Muslim beliefs. The demand for heroin (or legally, morphine)is there, and always will be, but why should we not make an effort in stopping the source to remove it and therefore choke the demand by removing the supply?

Hi Folks - just to let you know that I have been in touch with John Fenty today, and he has confirmed that there are plans for a minutes silence (note - not applause) prior to Saturdays match.

Cheers,
Emma B - GTST Chair

Quoted from Grim_Exile

Hi Folks - just to let you know that I have been in touch with John Fenty today, and he has confirmed that there are plans for a minutes silence (note - not applause) prior to Saturdays match.

Cheers,
Emma B - GTST Chair

Tah,and as expected,well done him.

Quoted from Biccys

So you're happy to legalise heroin as long as it's regulated (and presumably taxed)? I think you'll be in a very small minority there..

Of course there's heroin in our country. And yes, there always will be. But should we not attempt to stop it? Growing poppy's in Afghanistan IS ILLEGAL. And drug use is also counter to Muslim beliefs. The demand for heroin (or legally, morphine)is there, and always will be, but why should we not make an effort in stopping the source to remove it and therefore choke the demand by removing the supply?

Yes, systems of decriminalisation of heroin in European countries have led to less addicts. You don't just give heroin away, you distribute it in a reduced manner each time in accordance with open rehabilitation programs. It treats addiction as an illness, not a criminal offence. Addicts don't hide away in fear of prosecution and therefore have help. It has also cut off the supply of money routed to criminal organisations.

Growing poppies in Afghanistan wasn't illegal, actually. Drug use is counter to Muslim beliefs, but Afghanis did not use heroin, they cultivated the opium and the West buys it. We are the reason their economy is based on drugs production, so surely to tackle the root, we need to turn our attention to our society?

However, legalising it stabilises demand. 90% of the worlds opium comes from Afghanistan. If the US/UK/NATO armies were not there, it would be under Taliban rule. Therefore, any demand, would fund the taliban.

The strategy has changed in Afghanistan and is no longer about destroying fields. It's about going after the drug lords. It's about offering incentives for farmers to cultivate other crops. This can not be enforced without an effective goverment in place, we can't be there forever. Criticisms of Karzai's goverment being corrupt isn't far wide of the mark, however, Abdullah Abdullah pulled out of the race to ensure that the country got back on it's feet at a critical time. Clearly preferring democracy and Karzai to the taliban. Which can probably be fairly decided via vote when there is better security in place. Bailing out isn't an option when the country isn't strong enough to defend itself and will fall back into taliban hands.

On the topic of tackling our own society... yeah, fair enough, but then their biggest customers are Russia and have significant number of clients in Europe. We do not have juristiction over these countries and have no ability to influence their policies. So effectively, you're saying lets turn a blind eye and hope political mechanisms eventually turn around to a radical and not wholly sound policy. In the mean time, Taliban's finances will be going through the roof. Cutting off supply is a legitimate method and their will be aid in place to ensure farmers grow other crops. It's just a matter of helping the Afghan nation defend itself. However, that becomes very difficult when increasing troop numbers is a negative political issue that no-one dare address and armies are understaffed and underarmed there. I'd rather we supported the people in there, the people who have put their life on the line and the people who are most at risk as a direct result of poor resourcing. I'd rather people's deaths weren't for no reason what so ever.

Look whatever the rights and wrongs of this War please just remember 2 Grimsby lads are dead and according to reports murdered in cold blood so can we all at 3pm Saturday do the RIGHT thing and for one minute be quiet and respectful.As i say if im off work when the funerals take place i fully intend to pay my respects again and show their families that their fellow Grimbarians do care and i would hope many others feel the same way.RIP

Quoted from MarinerWY

Yes, systems of decriminalisation of heroin in European countries have led to less addicts. You don't just give heroin away, you distribute it in a reduced manner each time in accordance with open rehabilitation programs. It treats addiction as an illness, not a criminal offence. Addicts don't hide away in fear of prosecution and therefore have help. It has also cut off the supply of money routed to criminal organisations.

Growing poppies in Afghanistan wasn't illegal, actually. Drug use is counter to Muslim beliefs, but Afghanis did not use heroin, they cultivated the opium and the West buys it. We are the reason their economy is based on drugs production, so surely to tackle the root, we need to turn our attention to our society?

Sorry, but that's just wrong.
http://www.rferl.org/content/article/1067737.html
http://www.unmultimedia.org/tv/unifeed/d/12590.html
There's lots of literature out there to back this up.

And ask many of the soldiers that have been out there. Many locals are not trusted because they're constantly stoned. Either smashed on poppy or hash. The recent documentaries on life there for the infantry regiments highlighted this.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely agree with you that WE (the West and also Russia) have promulgated this massive problem, and we should be looking at our own society. And that's the reason we're there. Cutting the poppy supply off will stop the drugs coming in. No more heroin, no more heroin problem. Afghanistan produces something like 90% of the worlds heroin. Cut that out of the market and the remaining 10% gets very expensive and out of reach of the majority of the users out there.

There's plenty of farmers throughout the world that cultivate crops without resorting to growing poppies. The aid agencies out in Afghan ARE helping those farmers whose fields have been destroyed to grow other profitable crops.

Your option of legalising it (IMO) is ridiculous. Saying that decriminalising it has produced less addicts is absolutely nuts.

Logically, if it's legal, MORE people will use, therefore pushing the number of addicts UP... Making it not a criminal offence to posses heroin isn't going to stop those that are taking it now, and it's going to encourage those that aren't taking to do so!

Anyway, I think that's enough. I'd be happy to have a further conversation about this, but not on the forum. Either on a Non footy thread or by PM.

Quoted from Biccys

Sorry, but that's just wrong.
http://www.rferl.org/content/article/1067737.html
http://www.unmultimedia.org/tv/unifeed/d/12590.html
There's lots of literature out there to back this up.

And ask many of the soldiers that have been out there. Many locals are not trusted because they're constantly stoned. Either smashed on poppy or hash. The recent documentaries on life there for the infantry regiments highlighted this.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely agree with you that WE (the West and also Russia) have promulgated this massive problem, and we should be looking at our own society. And that's the reason we're there. Cutting the poppy supply off will stop the drugs coming in. No more heroin, no more heroin problem. Afghanistan produces something like 90% of the worlds heroin. Cut that out of the market and the remaining 10% gets very expensive and out of reach of the majority of the users out there.

There's plenty of farmers throughout the world that cultivate crops without resorting to growing poppies. The aid agencies out in Afghan ARE helping those farmers whose fields have been destroyed to grow other profitable crops.

Your option of legalising it (IMO) is ridiculous. Saying that decriminalising it has produced less addicts is absolutely nuts.

Logically, if it's legal, MORE people will use, therefore pushing the number of addicts UP... Making it not a criminal offence to posses heroin isn't going to stop those that are taking it now, and it's going to encourage those that aren't taking to do so!Anyway, I think that's enough. I'd be happy to have a further conversation about this, but not on the forum. Either on a Non footy thread or by PM.

I think you should investigate goings on in portugal, as i believe they are reaping the benefits of decriminalisation.

Back to the thread it is frightening that people are losing their lives before they have had the chance to live them and my thoughts go out to the poor families of the dead.

Quoted from headingly_mariner

I think you should investigate goings on in portugal, as i believe they are reaping the benefits of decriminalisation.

Back to the thread it is frightening that people are losing their lives before they have had the chance to live them and my thoughts go out to the poor families of the dead.

we are growing opium poppies in britain under home office control for the nhs currently in britain today. . . surely it would be beneficial to utilise the crop grown in afghanistan??.