Ive just heard about the 2 lads today

Im gutted for their families and would just like to say please give generously for the poppy appeal and also if you can attend the Services etc please do so and show their families WE DO CARE about OUR soldiers lives even if the government dont.RIP lads

just heard ........shitty times for our brave grimsby boys.......2 lives lost in an unwinnable war rip

rip

It is always sad when any young person dies. But our armed forces are made up entirely from volunteers. Volunteers who, presumably, are well educated enough to know that if they join up they may well be required to kill innocent Afghan civilians; and in the process of doing that be killed themselves. About 1400 coalition combatants have been killed since 2002. Too many! Nobody has bothered to count the tens of thousands of Afghans who have suffered the same fate during that time. Why should they? The average life expectancy in that country is 44; 53% of the population live below the poverty line; 72% are illiterate and 40% are unemployed. An Afghan life is clearly not worth remembering on Poppy Day, even though it may have been the perfectly innocent life of an unarmed woman or child, who didn't even know why those foreign soldiers were in their country. But their grieving families may, eventually, know that these men were there to prop up the corrupt Karzai government, many of whose leading lights owe their wealth to the heroin trade ... a trade, incidentally, which the Taleban had reduced by 90% before the coalition forces arrived - and which has mushroomed again since our troops have been there. Remember our 'brave boys' by all means ... but remember their victims too!

Wear YOUR poppy with PRIDE, those agents that got us in to this mess, wear YOUR poppy with a sense of GUILT.

Quoted from porkies

It is always sad when any young person dies. But our armed forces are made up entirely from volunteers. Volunteers who, presumably, are well educated enough to know that if they join up they may well be required to kill innocent Afghan civilians; and in the process of doing that be killed themselves. About 1400 coalition combatants have been killed since 2002. Too many! Nobody has bothered to count the tens of thousands of Afghans who have suffered the same fate during that time. Why should they? The average life expectancy in that country is 44; 53% of the population live below the poverty line; 72% are illiterate and 40% are unemployed. An Afghan life is clearly not worth remembering on Poppy Day, even though it may have been the perfectly innocent life of an unarmed woman or child, who didn't even know why those foreign soldiers were in their country. But their grieving families may, eventually, know that these men were there to prop up the corrupt Karzai government, many of whose leading lights owe their wealth to the heroin trade ... a trade, incidentally, which the Taleban had reduced by 90% before the coalition forces arrived - and which has mushroomed again since our troops have been there. Remember our 'brave boys' by all means ... but remember their victims too!

Very, very good post.

But also remember - in this country young people are manipulated too, albeit to a much lesser extent. They are offered qualifications, travel experiences, extreme sports, recreational activities - all the distract the fact they they are actually being trained to kill and die. No military advert mentions war. I remember being given career advice. The majority of people, including me, were given leaflets and suggestions about the army. This was only 3 years ago by the way - I never mentioned the army and was just as much of a pacifist back then as I am now.

You make a brilliant humanitarian point about the value of human life. I completely agree, we forget the civilian casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan. And the Taliban casualties too. Do frontline Taliban soldiers really want to fight, or believe in what they are fighting for? If so, why is this? One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist. We demonise militant soldiers in the Middle East but most people have a complete ignorance about the history of Western intervention and what the motivation is for joining up. Through past experience there is enough mistrust for people to sign up. And lets not forget the classic trick: axis of evil. The Taliban are NOT Al Queda. Saddam Hussein was not Taliban or Al Queda. Let's not be swept into the American-led umbrella definition of "terrorist".

All war is a failure of diplomacy.

You fasten all the triggers
For the others to fire
Then you set back and watch
While the death count gets higher
You hide in your mansion
While the young people's blood
Flows out of their bodies
And is buried in the mud

etc. etc.

RIP lads.

It would appear Afghanistan seems to be turning into our Vietnam - RIP

RIP the two Grimsby lads. Terrible loss.

Whatever your opinions of the politicians who have lied through their teeth,and failed miserably to support our young men with enough of the correct equipment and at a pace consistant with a war footing, these young men who have taken the Queen's shilling deserve our utmost support both whilst serving and afterwards.They do this in our name.

It must be remembered that the bulk of politicians and notably Brown and the criminal Blair have never had to go into battle,have never done military service and so do not and never will understand the shear horror of it nor the consequences of what the cowboy americans call collateral damage. The invasion of Iraq was illegal,the invasion of Afghanistan was ill advised considering its history although marginally understandable.

When you sign up for military service you do so on the understanding that those who issue orders and are responsible for strategy do these things for the good of our nation and for the the well being of the world. Sadly they have been let down by the greed and a kneejerk reactions of what are supposed to be the leaders of the western world.God help us.
Any nation that considers rendition a legitimate part of war,and puts its prisoners outside its own legal jurisdiction should be considered as being led by war criminals.Don't get me wrong there are some really nasty things which have to be done in the name of war,things which people who have never been there would find difficult to condone,but to put your prisoners into situations outside your own laws so they may tortured and held indefinately makes you as bad as you think the people are who you are fighting.

I've rambled on but the families of the young men who have sacrificed their lives deserve all the support and love we can give them.

terrible waste of life RIP