Never in this mess again

So now the that  it's all but over barring Sutton becoming Real Madrid and us reverting to Doncaster mode .

It's been a really bad season but I wouldn't say a disaster , even if one off results sometimes made it feel that way . 10 wins from 43 isn't how I thought it would pan out at all though  . I thought we would have a really good season .

So now we have 4 months to reset, rebuild and hopefully lessons have been learnt in all areas , the same season can't happen again on a loop like it did in the pre Stockwood & Pettit era and I'm confident it won't.

Hopefully Artell get's more right than he get's wrong and he is the man for us .

So now we can look forward to next season and some old new opponents - Bromley , Solihull ,Burton and Chesterfield are all possibilities or already done - local games will be the same barring Doncaster going right through and Mansfield effectively being replaced by Chesterfield . Halifax might make it up which would be interesting .

It should be a much more balanced league 2 in terms of resource with Wrexham,Mansfield and Stockport gone -- adding MK Dons in the play-offs would be a bonus . FGR & Colchester going down  would be ideal that's why I hope we beat them Tuesday .

The season isn't quite over but I'm looking forward to the next one already

We can dream Grimsby Town league 2 champions 24/25 for a few months

I will just be happy if we are not in another mess

UTM

It’s hard to see our playing budget improving so we’re going to have to be very shrewd. The Jan window proved we can attract quality players on a tight budget so we must continue in that vain with recruitment. Whether  it was Hursts or the recruitment guys fault we have now shown we can get decent players for this level .

Quoted from It Bites

It’s hard to see our playing budget improving so we’re going to have to be very shrewd. The Jan window proved we can attract quality players on a tight budget so we must continue in that vain with recruitment. Whether  it was Hursts or the recruitment guys fault we have now shown we can get decent players for this level .

One thing we know for certain - it wasn’t the owners interfering like in 2016. I’m assuming it was all PHs call. It wasn’t all bad, but two big mistakes which we’ve debated enough, and then a series of misjudgements about how certain players would progress (they didn’t - Harry,  Glennon) and how long the legs of others would keep going effectively (they didn’t - Luke and Gav). Eisa largely disappointed other than a few great strikes and we were unlucky with the CV injury.

Not sounding like I’m lacking ambition but I’d be happy with 12th next season. Safe by beginning of March . Just a stress free season would be lovely.

Quoted from louth_in_the_south

Not sounding like I’m lacking ambition but I’d be happy with 12th next season. Safe by beginning of March . Just a stress free season would be lovely.

If we finish 10th DA will tell his grandkids about it…

Quoted from louth_in_the_south

Not sounding like I’m lacking ambition but I’d be happy with 12th next season. Safe by beginning of March . Just a stress free season would be lovely.

This is what I said as I left the ground. A nice boring season, none of this getting my hopes up, or making me worry.

Don’t forget that Notts County in 14th place can still get promoted.  We need then next season and so we can maybe score 5 against them again.

I’d say its been a disaster, out of the Trophy 1st round, Carabao Cup 1st Round, FA Cup 2nd round after a replay.

2 of the heaviest defeats in club history, and only a 2nd away win of the season coming with 3 games to go

Its been a horror show of a season, and we must, must learn big lessons from this

Quoted from Hagrid

I’d say its been a disaster, out of the Trophy 1st round, Carabao Cup 1st Round, FA Cup 2nd round after a replay.

2 of the heaviest defeats in club history, and only a 2nd away win of the season coming with 3 games to go

Its been a horror show of a season, and we must, must learn big lessons from this

When you list it like that you’re right , it’s been absolutely Fentyesk crap

Quoted from Hagrid

I’d say its been a disaster, out of the Trophy 1st round, Carabao Cup 1st Round, FA Cup 2nd round after a replay.

2 of the heaviest defeats in club history, and only a 2nd away win of the season coming with 3 games to go

Its been a horror show of a season, and we must, must learn big lessons from this

Spot on. The only comfort from this season is we weren’t relegated. Other than that it’s been a disaster.

Quoted from Hagrid

I’d say its been a disaster, out of the Trophy 1st round, Carabao Cup 1st Round, FA Cup 2nd round after a replay.

2 of the heaviest defeats in club history, and only a 2nd away win of the season coming with 3 games to go

Its been a horror show of a season, and we must, must learn big lessons from this

Absolutely and only when this is recognised and understood can we put things right for next season.

How many times have we said ‘ never again ‘ ?
God I hope we learn this time

Quoted from Hagrid

I’d say its been a disaster, out of the Trophy 1st round, Carabao Cup 1st Round, FA Cup 2nd round after a replay.

2 of the heaviest defeats in club history, and only a 2nd away win of the season coming with 3 games to go

Its been a horror show of a season, and we must, must learn big lessons from this

100% this.

I’ve never been back & forth about a Town manager like I have Artell but I think he’ll take us forward & I suspect playing out might not be our only way of playing.

I’d be more than happy hovering around mid table next season.

Have to say big Dave bought the players in to sort it in the last window. He has done well in that respect. We need him to put more of his own stamp on the team in the summer.
I will start sleeping better if we get one more point or Sutton lose.

Quoted from Hagrid

I’d say its been a disaster, out of the Trophy 1st round, Carabao Cup 1st Round, FA Cup 2nd round after a replay.

2 of the heaviest defeats in club history, and only a 2nd away win of the season coming with 3 games to go

Its been a horror show of a season, and we must, must learn big lessons from this

Indeed. That is the reality.

The only comfort is that our form in the last 12 games has been pretty good. If we start next season the way we seem to be finishing this, then we will not be in a relegation scrap. But we certainly need several new players in key positions.

Disaster? No, but what a fking mess. A proper D minus season. There have been lots of issues and, hopefully, the lessons will be learned. But this has been a hard watch.

I would settle for a 'boring' next season but my biggest hope is we can play some decent football because the dross we've been served up in the last couple of years - especially at home - is soul destroying.

Quoted from grimps

How many times have we said ‘ never again ‘ ?
God I hope we learn this time

It has a touch of the Sean Connery's about it

It’s Been a Horrible season
Not even comparing it to the previous season, which was a one off
Still feel conversations should be taking place about manager
And a squad of players with big hearts
Let’s Give the best fans in the country something to really cheer
Come on Town!!

The current squad have a core that could be built into something very decent. You add another 4 or 5 quality players to what we have and you are top end. Gotta find these players though and that’s going to be tough.

Quoted from Hagrid

I’d say its been a disaster, out of the Trophy 1st round, Carabao Cup 1st Round, FA Cup 2nd round after a replay.

2 of the heaviest defeats in club history, and only a 2nd away win of the season coming with 3 games to go

Its been a horror show of a season, and we must, must learn big lessons from this

I think it's been more of a crisis than a disaster. Relegation would have been disastrous, but we must use this season as a lesson (providing we do get over the line as we should) and ensure that we get back on track next season.

Quoted from Theimperialcoroner

The current squad have a core that could be built into something very decent. You add another 4 or 5 quality players to what we have and you are top end. Gotta find these players though and that’s going to be tough.

I do think the main core players we have are DA’s and not Paul Hursts so if we let David recruit like he did in January who knows. UTM

Quoted from Theimperialcoroner

The current squad have a core that could be built into something very decent. You add another 4 or 5 quality players to what we have and you are top end. Gotta find these players though and that’s going to be tough.

Tharme, Thompson, Rose and Vernam is a strong core and a bit of quality that gives a very strong base to work from. A top keeper, another quality centre back and at least one quality centre mid next to Thompson and we won't be in this mess again next season.

I'm hopeful that Artell can pull some rabbits out of a hat but his January signings were promising. It's pretty rare that we sign players midseason that make such an impact, they're usually various shades of crap but Tharme and particularly Thompson have been instrumental in our survival. I also wouldn't be overly surprised if the owners privately are considering putting a bit more in to the budget to maintain interest. It's a noble aim to get the club to be self sufficient and have the infrastructure that we should do as a 21st century FL club but if they let on the pitch matters flounder like Fenty was happy to do then interest will wane and forward momentum will stall. But we will see, it will be an interesting summer for sure and I don't think Artell's recruitment will be anywhere near as bad as Hurst's was.

Quoted from mariner91

Tharme, Thompson, Rose and Vernam is a strong core and a bit of quality that gives a very strong base to work from. A top keeper, another quality centre back and at least one quality centre mid next to Thompson and we won't be in this mess again next season.

I'm hopeful that Artell can pull some rabbits out of a hat but his January signings were promising. It's pretty rare that we sign players midseason that make such an impact, they're usually various shades of crap but Tharme and particularly Thompson have been instrumental in our survival. I also wouldn't be overly surprised if the owners privately are considering putting a bit more in to the budget to maintain interest. It's a noble aim to get the club to be self sufficient and have the infrastructure that we should do as a 21st century FL club but if the let on the pitch matters flounder like Fenty was happy to do then interest will wane and forward momentum will stall. But we will see, it will be an interesting summer for sure and I don't think Artell's recruitment will be anywhere near as bad as Hurst's was.

I think you’re right. I think we also need decent full backs on both sides.

This might sound bomkers but I wouldn’t be surprised if Artell doesn’t try & get Obikwu back on another season king, he seems to really rate him.

I'd love to see us end a League season with a positive goal difference. Is that too much to hope for?

Quoted from HertsGTFC

I think you’re right. I think we also need decent full backs on both sides.

This might sound bomkers but I wouldn’t be surprised if Artell doesn’t try & get Obikwu back on another season king, he seems to really rate him.

We need improvements at full back definitely. But the priority for quality has to be our spine which until Tharme and Thompson shored things up was incredibly weak. If you control the middle of the pitch, it's very difficult for the other team to beat you.

It’s been absolute toilet this season and I’m glad it’s all but done. Not sure DA is the man to take us forward after being subjected to his favoured model early this yeat but happy to be proven wrong. I think the owners have been on to a loser since day one with the state the club and ground were left in. Just be more comfortable next season is my aim.  

Going to swerve football after the Swindon game until I’m at SJP for England vs Bosnia pre-Euros and I can see my interest in that tournament being fairly truncated too.

Just looking at the top goalscorers in the National League, and i see Manny D has scored 21 for Hartlepool, who are only going to finish mid-table. He is joint 4th highest scorer this season so far.

Not bad really

What plays on my mind is how we learnt no lessons going from the 08/09 season — in which we scraped survival in a similarly shocking season — and actually got worse in 09/10.

We thought that, once we got through to the summer, Newell would sign his players, get the squad settled, then we'd kick on. Pretty sure we gave some teams a hammering in pre-season!

And then what followed was an unmitigated disaster.

Just when we thought it couldn't get much worse, it got worse. Relegated out of the league, and six years in non-league with some chastening defeats at places like Chasetown and Braintree.

What we did back then was give a guy who should never have been in charge of us a decent budget to spaff on players that fitted his idea of a 'culture', and it backfired spectacularly.

Obviously, yhe culture 1878 are trying to foster now is the complete opposite to Newell's, but even so, the lesson we didn't heed from back then was that Newell had a good chunk of the season to move us away from danger and he didn't. We struggled right to the end.

It's been a similar story with Artell. He's had two thirds of the season to help kick us on and despite practically securing safety today we're no better than where we were when Hurst got the boot.

Admittedly, there are some signs of improvement. January recruitment is starting to look shrewd. But then we thought the same about Baz Conlon and Peter Sweeney, who both came in and looked great.

Then they signed permanently and tossed it off.

I'm right behind Artell and I want this to work out. A great win at Crewe doesn't immediately banish all the issues we've been having this season, but there have been some worrying defeats under his tenure — record breaking ones, at BP too — and we looked in some serious bother not very long ago.

Of course, he'll get the chance to build a squad in the summer. I just think it'll need careful management from those above him to make sure we're being pragmatic in how we invest.

Because we've been here many times before: manager buys players to play a certain style or system; season starts slowly, then manager has to change system (and therefore personnel) to force a change of luck, it gets messy, we struggle for the entire campaign, manager gets the sack, new one comes in, cycle continues.

Really hope Artell is the man that breaks this annoyingly recurring chain.

last 12 games , since he was persuaded' to change formation - won 4, drawn 5, lost 3 = 17 points ; That's on the cusp of the play offs form

I haven't been convinced by him, but from those stats he definitely deserves to be in charge next season

negative thread. be positive.

We've had 8 home wins, 1 more than 7 last season. That papers over the cracks though as there were some big defeats. All season we were much better in the first half than the second. 5 subs has been a game changer (every pun intended) and we need a better bench and better tactics for managing the substitutions. Probably need to be fitter too. Too many players injured. Biggest problem is as ever going to be recruitment. We'll probably be one of the relegation favourites next season. Hard to get out of the cycle. Always possible though if signings click and everyone stays fit.

An interesting breakdown of how much money is being thrown around even at league 2 level .

Quoted from bawarmy

Have to say big Dave bought the players in to sort it in the last window. He has done well in that respect. We need him to put more of his own stamp on the team in the summer.
I will start sleeping better if we get one more point or Sutton lose.

How many times…

David Artell is Head Coach. He has a limited role in recruitment.

Quoted from GrimRob

We've had 8 home wins, 1 more than 7 last season. That papers over the cracks though as there were some big defeats. All season we were much better in the first half than the second. 5 subs has been a game changer (every pun intended) and we need a better bench and better tactics for managing the substitutions. Probably need to be fitter too. Too many players injured. Biggest problem is as ever going to be recruitment. We'll probably be one of the relegation favourites next season. Hard to get out of the cycle. Always possible though if signings click and everyone stays fit.

Add to that that we have led during games, only to be thwarted and overturned by the final whistle, and "lost" 32 points that way. Add some of those points to our 46 today and it could be playoffs area.
Sam Allardyce always said that he builds from the back. He made his money by being parachuted in and saving lost causes, so he knew a thing or loads.

Quoted from Mappers

Tweet 1779056627695456294 will appear here...

An interesting breakdown of how much money is being thrown around even at league 2 level .

Just shows that Colchester going down rather than Sutton should theoretically help our cause next season given how much Colchester spend. On the other hand Colchester do seem to be generally bad at spending that money. How have they built up 38 million in debt to be in the position they are now!?

Quoted from GollyGTFC

How many times…

David Artell is Head Coach. He has a limited role in recruitment.

I for one think that is a nonsense. The recruitment guy is there to help identify possible targets and do the legwork in making signings possible by working with agents etc. but it is the responsibility of the manager or head coach in this case to give the go ahead on players he himself knows, or likes the look of if they have been recommended.

Im sure in one of his recent interviews he said he and Shaun had been out looking at a few players so I'm pretty sure he still has control of who we sign.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

How many times…

David Artell is Head Coach. He has a limited role in recruitment.

DA said in the Dn35 podcast recently that he has the final say on players coming in/out - not sure I'd call that a limited role.

I wonder if DA is still interested in Charlie Kirk, he played for them yesterday.  Wasn't we in for him only for Crewe to come in for him at the last minute.

What on Earth is going on at Colchester? This season they brought in the Cowleys who won’t have been cheap, and they are still hovering over the drop zone. Despite the £38 million accumulated losses they still have a pretty poor team that one assumes will be total overhauled in the summer at yet more cost.

One has to ask what the point is?

I think it’s fair to say that bother Rodgers and mullarkey aren’t as bad as they looked/seemed during that awful patch so I think they both merit keeping but bringing in a replacement for Maher.
I’d try to keep Hume if we’re intending on playing wingbacks next season but feel we could do better if it’s a left back we are looking at.
An experienced keeper is almost the most important position we need to get right next season.
More technical ability in midfield is an absolute must and in my opinion ruthless decisions need to be made on Clifton and Gav if we are going to improve.
I actually don’t mind Artell and would like to see what he could do with a summer transfer window with his own players but what I’ve been told is it’s either rose or artell and very unlikely to be both I know which one I’d rather see stay.

Quoted from Alan Buckley

I think it’s fair to say that bother Rodgers and mullarkey aren’t as bad as they looked/seemed during that awful patch so I think they both merit keeping but bringing in a replacement for Maher.
I’d try to keep Hume if we’re intending on playing wingbacks next season but feel we could do better if it’s a left back we are looking at.
An experienced keeper is almost the most important position we need to get right next season.
More technical ability in midfield is an absolute must and in my opinion ruthless decisions need to be made on Clifton and Gav if we are going to improve.
I actually don’t mind Artell and would like to see what he could do with a summer transfer window with his own players but what I’ve been told is it’s either rose or artell and very unlikely to be both I know which one I’d rather see stay.

But Artell said rose had said we are so much better at playing out from the back now boss lol

Quoted from toontown

But Artell said rose had said we are so much better at playing out from the back now boss lol

😂

Quoted from Mappers

Tweet 1779056627695456294 will appear here...

An interesting breakdown of how much money is being thrown around even at league 2 level .

Pardon my ignorance , is retained earnings meaning debt ?

Quoted from grimps

Pardon my ignorance , is retained earnings meaning debt ?

Yes

Although a lot of it is directors loans .

Colchester for example i know it's debt owing to the owners business and their fans think it's all well and good ; it is providing his business continues to do relatively well but if it has a bad year they would be in a big mess you would have thought .

It's certainly better to carry a small debt rather than the large one's we see from other clubs - we are in a great position off the pitch which will be made even stronger when it's written off .

Quoted from Alan Buckley

I
but what I’ve been told is it’s either rose or artell and very unlikely to be both I know which one I’d rather see stay.

Where has this come from? First I’ve heard of it.

What's the deal with Doncaster as that looks bleak for them.

On the flipside Steve Evans has done an astonishing job at Stevenage.

JS & AP talked of a steep learning curve when they took over.
1st Season Promoted.
2nd Season mid table & FA Cup run.
3rd Season relegation struggle.

Hopefully, by now they have learnt and will now know a bit more about running a football club.

Quoted from grimps

Pardon my ignorance , is retained earnings meaning debt ?

It is accumulated profits/losses since the company was formed
Utm

Hopefully we won't be but I wouldn't bet on it unfortunately.

Hagrid has nailed it for me. As impressive as the performance was yesterday it shouldn't paper over the cracks of what's been an awful season.
After last seasons cup exploits we all pretty much expected some end of season excitement this year, but not at this end of the table. The recruitment was done early and looked impressive despite the lack of a star striker, ticket sales stood up well and optimism was high. But it's been a complete flop and goodness knows what the outcome might have ben if we hadn't reverted to a back five after the famous team meeting.
A new CEO is arriving soon and I'm guessing there'll be a big change in the playing staff, but most importantly I hope the owners know what went wrong this season. I'm sure they do by the way!!

What me must not do now is persuade ourselves that because we have had mid table  form since the Doncaster game that this squad needs anything other then a massive overall with only 4 or 5 good enough to keep.

A season that flattered to deceive. Players brought in last summer didn’t quite kick on as hoped, with the exception of Danny rose. And, surprisingly for me, I think mullarkey and Rodgers have actually improved since DA got here, although maybe it was a low bar being set from mid September.

DA has got some much needed ability with his recruitment in January but there’s a definite need to get rid of some that have underperformed that’s for sure.

I'm just hoping that Artell doesn't now revert back to trying to do what he tried when he first came .

With the likely budget and players we are likely to be able to attract, trying to play like the L2 Man City is never going to work. I hope he's learnt from this season to mix some pragmatism into his ideology.

Quoted from Roast Em Bobby

I'm just hoping that Artell doesn't now revert back to trying to do what he tried when he first came .

With the likely budget and players we are likely to be able to attract, trying to play like the L2 Man City is never going to work. I hope he's learnt from this season to mix some pragmatism into his ideology.

I’m just hoping that we actually do sign some players capable of playing better football than that we’ve endured for many years.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

I’m just hoping that we actually do sign some players capable of playing better football than that we’ve endured for many years.

Need players who will get us more points. Not necessarily the same thing.

Quoted from Roast Em Bobby

I'm just hoping that Artell doesn't now revert back to trying to do what he tried when he first came .

With the likely budget and players we are likely to be able to attract, trying to play like the L2 Man City is never going to work. I hope he's learnt from this season to mix some pragmatism into his ideology.

I think you’re going to be extremely disappointed then because we’ll no doubt see a shift from percentage football and scrapping for wins at all costs to something more proactive. It was Hursts approach and signing players based on them being nice hard working lads that got us into this mess.

Artell was brought in to implement an indentity throughout the whole club and that’s exactly what I expect him to do. Every single good side we’ve played this season played good football.

Artell has already proved he can bring in good footballers to the club, Hurst just convinced everyone for years it wasn’t possible and left Artell to pick up the pieces (and get absolutely hammered whilst trying to get it right).

I’m looking forward to seeing what comes of the summer and how we start to transition into a decent side, there’s a long way to go but I’m still convinced Artell is going to prove so many people wrong next season.

Quoted from pontoonlew

I think you’re going to be extremely disappointed then because we’ll no doubt see a shift from percentage football and scrapping for wins at all costs to something more proactive. It was Hursts approach and signing players based on them being nice hard working lads that got us into this mess.

Artell was brought in to implement an indentity throughout the whole club and that’s exactly what I expect him to do. Every single good side we’ve played this season played good football.

Artell has already proved he can bring in good footballers to the club, Hurst just convinced everyone for years it wasn’t possible and left Artell to pick up the pieces (and get absolutely hammered whilst trying to get it right).

I’m looking forward to seeing what comes of the summer and how we start to transition into a decent side, there’s a long way to go but I’m still convinced Artell is going to prove so many people wrong next season.

Maybe the learning has been evolution & not revolution?

Quoted from pontoonlew

I think you’re going to be extremely disappointed then because we’ll no doubt see a shift from percentage football and scrapping for wins at all costs to something more proactive. It was Hursts approach and signing players based on them being nice hard working lads that got us into this mess.

Artell was brought in to implement an indentity throughout the whole club and that’s exactly what I expect him to do. Every single good side we’ve played this season played good football.

Artell has already proved he can bring in good footballers to the club, Hurst just convinced everyone for years it wasn’t possible and left Artell to pick up the pieces (and get absolutely hammered whilst trying to get it right).

I’m looking forward to seeing what comes of the summer and how we start to transition into a decent side, there’s a long way to go but I’m still convinced Artell is going to prove so many people wrong next season.

I don't think you're wrong, but I think we'll see an evolution of the way we setup right now. He'd be foolish not to, if we could get it right in possession next season then we'd be very difficult to play against. It'll be a much weaker L2 next year based on the teams going up and coming down giving us a great opportunity to capatalise.

Quoted from pontoonlew

Every single good side we’ve played this season played good football.

I'll be over the moon if we can play in the style of Stockport, Wrexham or Mansfield because they all play good pragmatic football. None of these teams play the tiki-taka/possesion at all costs style that Artell was trying to do before the big showdown, and that was the point I was trying to make.

Quoted from Roast Em Bobby

I'll be over the moon if we can play in the style of Stockport, Wrexham or Mansfield because they all play good pragmatic football. None of these teams play the tiki-taka/possesion at all costs style that Artell was trying to do before the big showdown, and that was the point I was trying to make.

Really not sure about that. Probably could put a decent point across for Wrexham but the other two have played some brilliant football, as have Wrexham at times. The quality of the players in those teams is night and day compared to the majority of ours, as I'd imagine the wage bill will be.
Saying that there are plenty of far less attractive teams with budgets closer to ours who play some decent stuff. Hopefully Artell can get us going.

Quoted from Roast Em Bobby

I'll be over the moon if we can play in the style of Stockport, Wrexham or Mansfield because they all play good pragmatic football. None of these teams play the tiki-taka/possesion at all costs style that Artell was trying to do before the big showdown, and that was the point I was trying to make.

Probably worth managing expectations.

I’ll be quite happy to watch Town players that control & pass the ball, think about who their crosses are meant for & don’t take pot shots from outside of the box when they have open space in front of them to get closer to the target.

Didn't the board say that PH changed his tactics last minute right up to the first game.  I wonder why he did this.

I want and expect our players to be able to do the basics much better collectively. Set piece delivery needs to improve a rejuvenated Hunt may answer that? I never saw this season coming and despite my doubts on DA he deserves the chance to take us on.Good luck Dave UTM

Quoted from 1mickylyons

I want and expect our players to be able to do the basics much better collectively. Set piece delivery needs to improve a rejuvenated Hunt may answer that? I never saw this season coming and despite my doubts on DA he deserves the chance to take us on.Good luck Dave UTM

Exactly this. Good luck to DA. It’s fine to aspire to a better style of play but you’re relying on having the players to do it. At this moment, we’re a long way away.

Quoted from 1mickylyons

I want and expect our players to be able to do the basics much better collectively. Set piece delivery needs to improve a rejuvenated Hunt may answer that? I never saw this season coming and despite my doubts on DA he deserves the chance to take us on.Good luck Dave UTM

I expected us to struggle to better an 11th place finish. No way did I see Hurst being sacked, but he couldn’t replace McAtee and Smith like-for-like, and there was no way at all we could compete with the monied clubs. I think most on here pretty much had Stockport and Wrexham to go up, and Mansfield were definitely mentioned by most too.

Personally I felt we’d be comfortably safe, but also mid-table, maybe 14th-or-so. Underwhelming, not perilous.

I do think, however, next season is an opportunity to do well if recruitment is good. Let’s be honest, most of us didn’t have a clue who most of Hurst’s signings were. Names like Pyke and Rodgers were a complete unknown to us, and people just assumed they must be good, which was naive. I’d like to think that DA can attract some players we KNOW are good enough.

Quoted from CSLM

Really not sure about that. Probably could put a decent point across for Wrexham but the other two have played some brilliant football, as have Wrexham at times. The quality of the players in those teams is night and day compared to the majority of ours, as I'd imagine the wage bill will be.
Saying that there are plenty of far less attractive teams with budgets closer to ours who play some decent stuff. Hopefully Artell can get us going.

The point I was trying to make (though obviously not very well) is that there is a world of difference between the way MK Dons play in-comparison to Stockport, Wrexham or Mansfield. All I'm saying is that I hope DA doesn't try to go down the MK Dons route because I don't think we can afford/attract the players required for that style and you have to be very very good at it in order to achieve success in this league. Yes, of course we all want players who can pass and control the ball better, but personally I hope DA is prepared to mix it up a bit and ensure that we have a fair bit of steel and athleticism as well because that is pretty much essential in L2

Think you make a good point Roast Em, dont care who he signs, if he tries to revert back to his ideals we will be inexactly the same position, coz the players just wont be good enough or intelligent enough to do it.
I pray that he is humble enough to realise that the approach he had to be persuaded to take at least gives him the base to work from.its obviously effective ( just off play off form, Golly!) The players have improved under it, and they seem a lot more comfortable and confident.  
I do believe that if he sticks with this system ( with tweaks) hes not going to need quite the overhaul we all think.
For a start just replacing the inconsistent, misfiring, ageing Gav with a fully fit Ainley ( a man who has played 200 games at the top end of div 2 and above would improve us immensely). A really good commanding , experienced keeper ( say the ex orient keeper who is at Burnley n we were rumoured to be interested in) would do summat sumilar

Quoted from Roast Em Bobby

The point I was trying to make (though obviously not very well) is that there is a world of difference between the way MK Dons play in-comparison to Stockport, Wrexham or Mansfield. All I'm saying is that I hope DA doesn't try to go down the MK Dons route because I don't think we can afford/attract the players required for that style and you have to be very very good at it in order to achieve success in this league. Yes, of course we all want players who can pass and control the ball better, but personally I hope DA is prepared to mix it up a bit and ensure that we have a fair bit of steel and athleticism as well because that is pretty much essential in L2

Don't forget that DA is on a learning curve. His only previous club, Crewe, had a defined way of playing that was coached at all their levels. It was probably the only style  that DA knew and he could be forgiven in believing that we had the players capable of executing that same style. Once it became apparent that we didn't have that coaching structure which IMO led to the meeting post the Doncaster debacle, then a different approach was adopted. He will have learnt from this. His preferred approach is playing out from the back but until he has the players and coaching structure within the club then I think he will adopt a more practical approach. The whole process should be an evolution as opposed to a revolution incorporating more of a " mix and match" style. I'm sure the transfer window will demonstrate how he will proceed in our development and I'm also convinced that he  will have learnt from the last couple of months where he went wrong.

I’m relatively relaxed about DA as things stand. There have been 3 distinct chunks to his time here so far; the first 6 league games (where things were generally ok), the next 6 (which were nothing short of abject), and the last 11 (which have been pretty good, all things considered). Here’s how they stack up:

First 6 - W2 D2 L2 - 1.33 PPG
Next 6 - W0 D2 L4 - 0.33 PPG
Last 11 - W4 D4 L3 - 1.45 PPG

Form over his first 6 is roughly mid-table, the next 6 was of course relegation form (and then some), while our form over the last 11 gets you close to the play-offs over 46 games.

Don’t get me wrong, I wanted Artell gone after the Donny game. We had been absolutely atrocious for weeks and I didn’t see the turnaround coming. But credit where it’s due, he’s recognised where it was going wrong (namely then predictably playing out from the back and a moronically executed press) and done something about it.

He’s also shown a certain amount of resilience to get the players and fans back onside. The players deserve their own credit for the turnaround, but it wouldn’t have happened under a manager they didn’t want to play for.

His challenge now is a different one. Not quite a blank canvas, but as close as you’re likely to get in football, and a summer to try and implement some more of his ideas more successfully.

Who knows where things go from here? I’ve given up attempting to guess. But I do think that whilst we’ve (hopefully) seen the worst of David Artell this season, I am hopeful we have yet to see his best work. For now, I’m looking forward to a few football free weekends ahead of the Euros. This season has been an exhausting one.

Quoted from forza ivano

Think you make a good point Roast Em, dont care who he signs, if he tries to revert back to his ideals we will be inexactly the same position, coz the players just wont be good enough or intelligent enough to do it.
I pray that he is humble enough to realise that the approach he had to be persuaded to take at least gives him the base to work from.its obviously effective ( just off play off form, Golly!) The players have improved under it, and they seem a lot more comfortable and confident.  
I do believe that if he sticks with this system ( with tweaks) hes not going to need quite the overhaul we all think.
For a start just replacing the inconsistent, misfiring, ageing Gav with a fully fit Ainley ( a man who has played 200 games at the top end of div 2 and above would improve us immensely). A really good commanding , experienced keeper ( say the ex orient keeper who is at Burnley n we were rumoured to be interested in) would do summat sumilar

It's all about levels though and if you get players in who do the basics well and decide to go pass and move it should work fine.DA inherited players who don't do the basics well.In over 40 years watching Town I've never seen such poor passing and control collectively? Vernam on Saturday brought a ball down whilst running full pelt I was gobsmacked but in Buckley era it was standard. Slade went for the fast physical types I didn't like what I saw but it was effective. DA after a pre season and a long transfer window will start assembling what he wants and he does have a reasonable base to build from. I'm optimistic about next Season but I want a huge midfield rebuild in my eyes that's the key .Midfield protects the defence and links to the attack and should create chances our attack and defence have been short changed this season. Added to that the midfield have hardly chipped in with goals Eisa apart.

I would rather see a 'thank you very much for your hard work in the time you have been here but your not the man to take us in to next season'

If DA is here next season I would support him but I would like a new manager for next season.

Quoted from TAGG

I would rather see a 'thank you very much for your hard work in the time you have been here but your not the man to take us in to next season'

If DA is here next season I would support him but I would like a new manager for next season.

If he wasn’t sacked after the Donny game, there’s no way he’s going to be sacked between now and the start of the season.

Quoted from Poojah

If he wasn’t sacked after the Donny game, there’s no way he’s going to be sacked between now and the start of the season.

Yes I know.
It was just a wish

Quoted from TAGG

I would rather see a 'thank you very much for your hard work in the time you have been here but your not the man to take us in to next season'

If DA is here next season I would support him but I would like a new manager for next season.

It’s all about opinions, but I think that’s mad. He’ll be good for us, he needs the whole of next season and I think the majority will be able to see that he’s a positive appointment.

Quoted from TAGG

Yes I know.
It was just a wish

For what it’s worth, despite not being particularly keen on him as a candidate in the outset, and less so following our series of drubbing incidents, I think Artell deserves to be given a crack at next season.

We saw some initial improvements in our performances and results when he first came in, and whilst that undoubtedly all went to shít shortly after, he’s had both the humility and presence of mind to make some arguably difficult decisions and do something about it, even if the brand of football has been a little more “pragmatic” than first advertised.

He’s also had some awful tragedies, both for the club and himself personally, to contend with this side of the New Year. The death of young Cameron Walsh and his dad, the loss of Peter Handyside at the age of 49, and the death of his own farther in the past couple of weeks. We’ve seen the human side of him, and I think he’s come across very well in that respect.

I’ve no idea what next season holds in store for us, be it good, bad or ugly as fúck, but I have no problem with DA being in the dugout for game #1. I genuinely couldn’t imagine having written that just a few weeks ago, and that in itself tells its own story.

Quoted from TAGG

I would rather see a 'thank you very much for your hard work in the time you have been here but your not the man to take us in to next season'

If DA is here next season I would support him but I would like a new manager for next season.

Losing 2 in 12 against teams in 3rd and 5th isn't good enough? I've warmed to DA massively, think we've seen how much the bloke cares for the club already. That spell we went through was nothing short of disasturous but the bloke has been through more at the club off the field than most people will go through in there whole career... He came with a style and a philosophy and probably over estimated the ability of the squad but showed trust in them to get them out of it. Doncaster happened and we've not looked back since despite near enough every single fan writing us off, even in the midst of that run. You could go back to after the Barrow game and people still think we was going down.. furthermore to add to that, every single player he signed in Jan has improved us. Tharme and Thompson are two mainstays in the side, Thompson looks like the midfielder we've been crying out for years and Tharme looks like a re-incarnation of Luke Waterfall. Obikwu splits opinion but has scored some big goals and provided big moments for us. Smith has come back into the side recently and is getting better with every game that goes by, Hume looked like a solid acquisition but has gone off the boil recently. Harry Wood is the only one that hasn't really got going but still scored a very good equaliser against County and has shown glimpses of ability. Pair that with the improvement on players that many of us wrote off, Mullarkey has moved ten yards inside and looks like a completely new player, we all knew going forward he was okay but defensively he was so suspect and now he looks a very very good defender for the level. Next season has to improve but there's much more to be positive about than there is potential negatives.

It’s easy to underestimate just how difficult it is to turn around a team on a downward spiral mid season. Hurst couldn’t do it in 2021.

As others have said, he has brought in some very good players that we can build a team around. And let’s not forget that the recent run of games post Doncaster includes victories against teams currently in 4th and 5th, and away points against three teams in the top ten at the time. That is pretty good going.

So it’s been quite a turnaround. It will be interesting to see how it goes over the summer but I think current indications are positive.

As long as we stay up which is nearly certain now.

I will be more than happy to finish10th --12th  winning more games than we lose and scoring more goals than we concede.

A few high scoring wins at home  for a change would be nice as well.

He was in trouble after the Donny game, no doubt about it, but he had the balls to do something about it. Out of desperation or self preservation? Who cares?

I think he tried to get stuff out of some of our players that wasn’t possible and he had to find a way around it and he has. Given a summer to do what he needs to do is the least he deserves and let’s hope the board back him.

Regardless of how David Artell wants to play & who’s in the squad next season the home form must improve, if that happens we’ll have a much better season.

On so many levels this season has been a sobering education for everyone involved one that has no doubt provided some valuable learnings for 1878 as well as the manager.

I think it’s widely excepted that under Fenty we kept making the same mistakes again and again in the EFL ?
However, by the looks of this season and the home performances last season it seems that Fentys biggest fck up was not maintaining the ground properly and leaving it in such a state that no matter how many fans squeeze in the playing budget will be much the same . That’s the legacy fenty has left us with . Be prepared for more bumpy rides for seasons to come .

Quoted from It Bites

I think it’s widely excepted that under Fenty we kept making the same mistakes again and again in the EFL ?
However, by the looks of this season and the home performances last season it seems that Fentys biggest fck up was not maintaining the ground properly and leaving it in such a state that no matter how many fans squeeze in the playing budget will be much the same . That’s the legacy fenty has left us with . Be prepared for more bumpy rides for seasons to come .

I was as far from being Fenty’s biggest fan as was possible and a lot of what he did was unforgivable but he at least understood the need for a new stadium. BP isn’t fit for purpose and hasn’t been for a very long time.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

I was as far from being Fenty’s biggest fan as was possible and a lot of what he did was unforgivable but he at least understood the need for a new stadium. BP isn’t fit for purpose and hasn’t been for a very long time.

I think that’s a fair assessment why would you spend money on decorating your house if it’s falling down?

You wouldn’t but you’d spend money to stop it falling down especially if you where asking people to pay to visit, which is what appears hasn’t happened.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

I was as far from being Fenty’s biggest fan as was possible and a lot of what he did was unforgivable but he at least understood the need for a new stadium. BP isn’t fit for purpose and hasn’t been for a very long time.

But if you don't have an actual plan that you know for sure is going to come to fruition then you shouldn't just let your current home rot.

All this talk of next season is making me feel uneasy.

We are not mathematically out of the current mess yet.

Quoted from ginnywings

All this talk of next season is making me feel uneasy.

We are not mathematically out of the current mess yet.

I hear you and I think this is that natural Grimsby pessimism coming through. ALL OF MY MATES have told me that we're safe (and they support clubs like Stockport, Stevenage, Everton...so are neutral re us) and I even texted one of them pointing out that we are 6 points clear with a game in hand, a +10 GD, our game in hand is against a relegation rival and Sutton have to play 2 teams who on paper should beat them.

But the doubt is still there, gnawing like a rat at a skirting board..

Nah, no chance we're still in danger.  

As for next season, genuinely excited to see who Artell (Yes Golly, Artell) brings in.  Without doubt we won't be flash with the budget but with a fair number of what I would presume are higher earners out of contract that's not an horrendous position to be in.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

BP isn’t fit for purpose and hasn’t been for a very long time.

I could have sworn I've watched hundreds of football matches at BP over the past 40-odd years. It's got a pitch, stands, seating and a safety certificate, so it is certainly fit for that purpose and will be so for the foreseeable future. The problems will come when we need to replace the Main Stand. Hopefully, the owners have some sort of a plan in this regard. I'd imagine they will be liaising with the safety bods about this.

We can't fit a conference centre in the ground and don't have room for many other facilities, but those are just sidelines for a football club to help keep it going. What won't keep a club going is moving to a new stadium which it can't afford to even build in the first place!

Could we look to build a new training ground with a conference centre attached as part of the development? If it was not far off the A180, it would probably be a better location than having to drive through Grimsby to get to BP? No idea if this would be any more feasible than a new ground, of course.

I don't understand all this talk of BP being unfit for purpose... been to most away games this season and it's probably top 5/10 grounds in the league. No way near the state of some of the grounds in this league... obviously the problem is based on potential future progression but the problem is more about people releasing seats than it is actual capacity.

And that's it - our potential for growth is really limited there.

And it's also a huge money pit.  We're consistently throwing money at it just to make it right, not for any benefit other than allowing us to continue to play from there.

I think Maringer is onto the right thing with the added on facilities forming part of the training ground.  I don't think there's a huge revenue stream of having facilities at the football club.  Sure there's a few who will have a wedding or engagement at the club because it's actually at Blundell Park, but the real money comes from those who are looking for good and accessible facilities (sadly, none of which BP is).

From absolute personal experience, there's a definite lack of conference type facilities in this area.  I'm going on a bit of a presumption that there's demand but the right facility would definitely generate income.

I'm also not going to pretend that BP is indeed fit for purpose.  It's really unpopular to say and I know people love the place but I'm sorry it's a shithole.  Yes it's our shithole but it's still just that.  There's plenty of other shitholes in this league but to be 100% honest I don't want to be competing with League Two dumps.  I want us to be better than that.  It needs a lot doing to it.  Some relatively short term (toilets), some medium term (making good the Main Stand) and then some much longer term (increasing capacity, generally having better stands etc.)

Quoted from Maringer

I could have sworn I've watched hundreds of football matches at BP over the past 40-odd years. It's got a pitch, stands, seating and a safety certificate, so it is certainly fit for that purpose and will be so for the foreseeable future. The problems will come when we need to replace the Main Stand. Hopefully, the owners have some sort of a plan in this regard. I'd imagine they will be liaising with the safety bods about this.

We can't fit a conference centre in the ground and don't have room for many other facilities, but those are just sidelines for a football club to help keep it going. What won't keep a club going is moving to a new stadium which it can't afford to even build in the first place!

Could we look to build a new training ground with a conference centre attached as part of the development? If it was not far off the A180, it would probably be a better location than having to drive through Grimsby to get to BP? No idea if this would be any more feasible than a new ground, of course.

Is there a huge need for conference facilities in North East Lincolnshire though?

Quoted from jamesgtfc

Is there a huge need for conference facilities in North East Lincolnshire though?

If you build it, they will come...

(...probably)