How are we this bad?

Comfortable mid table finish and an FA cup quarter final last season to sinking into the abyss this season, What on earth happened? I think we needed to refresh the squad as you could see the results drying up towards the end of last season but how have we got it so wrong?

Signing sh1te players and having a David Brent impersonator to manage the useless tw@ts

No experienced goalkeeper has been a big issue IMO. Although I got loads of red crosses for suggesting this at the start of the season, so I'm probably wrong

Quoted from BrMarin

No experienced goalkeeper has been a big issue IMO. Although I got loads of red crosses for suggesting this at the start of the season, so I'm probably wrong

If hull recall Cartwright can we get an emergency loan in, could be something worth pursuing

Letting Crocombe go was a disaster.

Quoted from Yoda

Letting Crocombe go was a disaster.

You ain't wrong, and most on here wanted him replaced. So the collective wisdom of The Fishy ain't great, and of course those ghosts at the start of the season are claiming that they said this was a problem the whole time.

Quoted from Yoda

Letting Crocombe go was a disaster.

Didn’t he want to go ?

Quoted from AncientExiledMariner

You ain't wrong, and most on here wanted him replaced. So the collective wisdom of The Fishy ain't great, and of course those ghosts at the start of the season are claiming that they said this was a problem the whole time.

The Fishy wanted him replaced with a better keeper not Eastwood and Cartwright who are nowhere near Crocombe level.

Quoted from 1mickylyons

The Fishy wanted him replaced with a better keeper not Eastwood and Cartwright who are nowhere near Crocombe level.

When DA came in I was shocked he didn’t bring in a keeper , Eastwood is tosh and Cartwright is to young and inexperienced , but leaving that aside the lack of quality throughout the team is frightening.  

Quoted from dapperz fun pub

Didn’t he want to go ?

No, he wanted a longer contract than the one year offered

Quoted from wembley_double98

No, he wanted a longer contract than the one year offered

Fair enough if that’s the case

Eastwood should be chomping at the bit to play now, give Cartwright a break and let’s see what Eastwood has learnt since being dropped.
Cartwright I’m sure will be a fine keeper but he is young and needs Eastwood to grow some balls and stand forward and realise his mistakes

Quoted from wembley_double98

Eastwood should be chomping at the bit to play now, give Cartwright a break and let’s see what Eastwood has learnt since being dropped.
Cartwright I’m sure will be a fine keeper but he is young and needs Eastwood to grow some balls and stand forward and realise his mistakes

Please noooo 😱

When PH was sacked we were bottom third but well out of danger and no heavy defeats. The caretaker team made a few tweaks and we looked more than capable of staying up. I think the division is a much higher standard this year and we were likely to finish lower anyway.

Quoted from GrimRob

When PH was sacked we were bottom third but well out of danger and no heavy defeats. The caretaker team made a few tweaks and we looked more than capable of staying up. I think the division is a much higher standard this year and we were likely to finish lower anyway.

I also expected a lower finish than last season, but not quite this.

We’re this bad because the man is clueless. We started well under him, he brought our flair players back in (Hunt, Glennon, Gnahoua) we played with a purpose then he binned them off as soon as they dropped a level and has subsequently played players who are clearly not capable of playing the way he wants.

The consequence is that most of them don’t look bothered. He’ll get a nice payday, the players will still get their wages and we’ll be back in the non league.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

We’re this bad because the man is clueless. We started well under him, he brought our flair players back in (Hunt, Glennon, Gnahoua) we played with a purpose then he binned them off as soon as they dropped a level and has subsequently played players who are clearly not capable of playing the way he wants.

The consequence is that most of them don’t look bothered. He’ll get a nice payday, the players will still get their wages and we’ll be back in the non league.

Hunt has been injured. Charles is coming back to fitness and cannot fully last the 90, Eisa is scoring though. Glennon was good going forward, but getting shredded. Hume looked quite good against Stockport from the bits I saw.

Quoted from AncientExiledMariner

Hunt has been injured. Charles is coming back to fitness and cannot fully last the 90, Eisa is scoring though. Glennon was good going forward, but getting shredded. Hume looked quite good against Stockport from the bits I saw.

Hunt is not injured.

There are defenders in front of the keeper !!

Why just blame the keeper when the Mersey Tunnel is gaping open and the passing is slow, misdirected and often straight to opponents ???

Conteh has been a big miss to steady the ship under pressure, and Thompson would have been a thorn against their midfield runners.

Where is the backbone and professionalism, especially in the first 10 minutes of games?

Why are teams do much more at ease with passing and positioning?

Can they actually trap the ball competently, because it certainly doesn't seem so !!!????

Answers on a postcard ????

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Hunt is not injured.

SP said Hunt has recovered and is available for selection during his prematch interview.

Quoted from acko338

There are defenders in front of the keeper !!

Why just blame the keeper when the Mersey Tunnel is gaping open and the passing is slow, misdirected and often straight to opponents ???

Conteh has been a big miss to steady the ship under pressure, and Thompson would have been a thorn against their midfield runners.

Where is the backbone and professionalism, especially in the first 10 minutes of games?

Why are teams do much more at ease with passing and positioning?

Can they actually trap the ball competently, because it certainly doesn't seem so !!!????

Answers on a postcard ????

Today’s midfield clearly doesn’t understand how to pass and move. To a man, they were woeful.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Hunt is not injured.

Are you calling SP a liar? He's just got back in training...

We were impressive until the Bradford away game and last minute equaliser. Tail spin since then. Something happened after that game. Appointing a manager to get us playing a different way half way through a season has resulted with us in a relegation fight with the wrong type of manager.

Christ knows where they go from here. But I’ve seen absolutely nothing to convince me that Artell is the answer at this moment in time.

both keepers  are crap have had loads of red crosses for saying

Quoted from 140381

We were impressive until the Bradford away game and last minute equaliser. Tail spin since then. Something happened after that game. Appointing a manager to get us playing a different way half way through a season has resulted with us in a relegation fight with the wrong type of manager.

Christ knows where they go from here. But I’ve seen absolutely nothing to convince me that Artell is the answer at this moment in time.

That’s re-writing history somewhat. We’d had periods where we looked good but no more than that. We looked solid enough against Wimbledon, beat an abysmal Salford but didn’t look particularly great, looked very good against Gillingham and in the first half against Bradford. However, we were poor against Mansfield and Walsall both requiring wonder strikes because we didn’t create anything of note in either game. And we were battered by Notts County despite what people said at the time. Gifted two goals by their awful defence but otherwise created nothing and had little of the ball.

I don’t think we’d be getting battered like we are now if Hurst was still here. But ultimately if people want to excuse Hurst for the relegation in 2021 as Holloway had made a mess of a squad, then Hurst absolutely needs to take a huge slice of blame for this abysmal squad he’s left us with.

Quoted from mariner91

That’s re-writing history somewhat. We’d had periods where we looked good but no more than that. We looked solid enough against Wimbledon, beat an abysmal Salford but didn’t look particularly great, looked very good against Gillingham and in the first half against Bradford. However, we were poor against Mansfield and Walsall both requiring wonder strikes because we didn’t create anything of note in either game. And we were battered by Notts County despite what people said at the time. Gifted two goals by their awful defence but otherwise created nothing and had little of the ball.

I don’t think we’d be getting battered like we are now if Hurst was still here. But ultimately if people want to excuse Hurst for the relegation in 2021 as Holloway had made a mess of a squad, then Hurst absolutely needs to take a huge slice of blame for this abysmal squad he’s left us with.

Don’t read my post as an apology for Hurst. Whatever happened after the Bradford game and subsequently was down to him.

Apart from having an inexperienced goalkeeper we have also sold our best defender, our best midfielder and have a crap manager.

Should we go five at the back?

Quoted from Swansea_Mariner

Should we go five at the back?

9.

Quoted from 140381

Don’t read my post as an apology for Hurst. Whatever happened after the Bradford game and subsequently was down to him.

My point was we’ve not really looked great all season. We’ve had probably about five or six halves all season where we’ve looked good. We started okay points wise but it’s easy to forget the arguing on here that actually we weren’t very good and we couldn’t rely on Eisa rifling one in every game, which has proved to be correct.

Ultimately, this squad is fücking useless with a lot of players incapable of doing the basics. But worse than that a lot of them are brain-dead cowards. Shame on them all (bar Rose) and shame on Paul Hurst for creating this mess.

We looked like we were playing in a training game - prime example for the third goal  - Tharme dispossessed way out position, don’t know what he was trying to do - but even then no one thought to backfill behind him - they got a p1ss easy overlap and suddenly it’s 3-1. After that we were an utter shambles - completely shapeless. I didn’t see the 5th…

Quoted from GrimRob

When PH was sacked we were bottom third but well out of danger and no heavy defeats. The caretaker team made a few tweaks and we looked more than capable of staying up. I think the division is a much higher standard this year and we were likely to finish lower anyway.

Well if you call 21st "bottom third" you're right.  Personally I'd call 21st too close to the drop, after 6 straight defeats.  Other interpretations of 21st are available.

To answer that question depends how deep you want to go . In the last three years the club has been turned upside down from one run by one man on a shoestring with long serving staff who may or may not of been any good to one based on a  business study case study structure provided by football club management consultants with multiple different roles and resulting in our case in a rapid staff turnover where when the new manager comes in (Artelll) he states one of the reasons the job appealed is I don’t have to do anything  else I just have to coach the team . I have no axe to ground for either approach I hated Fenty and was sceptical about Stockwood motives for which I have received flack . I suspect the answer is simple the  new model is run on just as much of a shoe string as the old and in football 90% of what is needed to succeed is simply down to money.. Until we have owners prepared to invest what is required to succeed we are where we are.

Quoted from HerveJosse

To answer that question depends how deep you want to go . In the last three years the club has been turned upside down from one run by one man on a shoestring with long serving staff who may or may not of been any good to one based on a  business study case study structure provided by football club management consultants with multiple different roles and resulting in our case in a rapid staff turnover where when the new manager comes in (Artelll) he states one of the reasons the job appealed is I don’t have to do anything  else I just have to coach the team . I have no axe to ground for either approach I hated Fenty and was sceptical about Stockwood motives for which I have received flack . I suspect the answer is simple the  new model is run on just as much of a shoe string as the old and in football 90% of what is needed to succeed is simply down to money.. Until we have owners prepared to invest what is required to succeed we are where we are.

If we are still on a shoestring then there has to be huge questions about what the hell is going on. Didn't Stockwood say that they had turned down investors at one point as we didn't need it (this was a while back)?

Quoted from mariner91

My point was we’ve not really looked great all season. We’ve had probably about five or six halves all season where we’ve looked good. We started okay points wise but it’s easy to forget the arguing on here that actually we weren’t very good and we couldn’t rely on Eisa rifling one in every game, which has proved to be correct.

Ultimately, this squad is fücking useless with a lot of players incapable of doing the basics. But worse than that a lot of them are brain-dead cowards. Shame on them all (bar Rose) and shame on Paul Hurst for creating this mess.

Compared to the last few home games, the Gillingham game was like watching 70s Ajax. But yes, we’ve never looked like promotion candidates, I put that down to how much money is swilling around and how many strong teams are in the league. Never, ever expected us to be relegation candidates however.

Quoted from 140381

We were impressive until the Bradford away game and last minute equaliser. Tail spin since then. Something happened after that game

I do think something happened around that period.

We’d had a decent start. 9 points from 6 after a good home win against Gillingham.

We then lost in the FL Trophy and everyone was expecting a tough match away at an under pressure Bradford.

Bradford had an injury crisis and were awful but we looked so professional and classy in that first half. We genuinely looked like a top 7 side. Then we somehow let Bradford back into the match and they got their late equaliser.

Next up was Wrexham. Hurst went ultra cautious with 5 defenders but we never looked capable of keeping things tight or getting anything out of the match.

I do wonder if something was said in the squad / dressing room after or during that match.

Maher was injured in training that week following Wrexham (was he?). Amos was dropped and Glennon returned.

Then came Crawley and the first signs of a lack of discipline / professionalism. Posters don’t like me saying this, and Holohan did play a part in our goals, but for one of our most senior players to not track the same Crawley player twice in a few minutes was very un-Hurst like. There was also Glennon and Eastwood’s cowardice.

Glennon and Holohan were then dropped for the defeat by Swindon.

We then steadied the ship somewhat against Barrow and Tranmere.

There was then the bizarre performance in the FL Trophy when Conteh and Andrews pulled out of tackles.

Next up was the 0-2 defeat to Accrington when Waterfall got sent off with a stupid decision to take a second yellow card. Ill discipline again.

Worse though was that Mrs Maher Tweeted that Niall wasn’t even injured.

Since then Maher has been absolute crap - almost Rodgers levels of crap.

Conclusion:

I don’t believe these players are as bad, on paper, as they have been on grass, since half-time at Bradford.

The whole Maher thing was odd. Was he even injured after the Wrexham match at all, or did something happen off the pitch? Apart from the odd bright spot, most of the senior players, with the exception of Rose, have effectively given up since Bradford equalised.

They are an absolute disgrace. They got Hurst sacked and, whether he’s good enough or not, they’re about to get Artell sacked too.

Quoted from Knut Anders Fosters Voles

I do think something happened around that period.

We’d had a decent start. 9 points from 6 after a good home win against Gillingham.

We then lost in the FL Trophy and everyone was expecting a tough match away at an under pressure Bradford.

Bradford had an injury crisis and were awful but we looked so professional and classy in that first half. We genuinely looked like a top 7 side. Then we somehow let Bradford back into the match and they got their late equaliser.

Next up was Wrexham. Hurst went ultra cautious with 5 defenders but we never looked capable of keeping things tight or getting anything out of the match.

I do wonder if something was said in the squad / dressing room after or during that match.

Maher was injured in training that week following Wrexham (was he?). Amos was dropped and Glennon returned.

Then came Crawley and the first signs of a lack of discipline / professionalism. Posters don’t like me saying this, and Holohan did play a part in our goals, but for one of our most senior players to not track the same Crawley player twice in a few minutes was very un-Hurst like. There was also Glennon and Eastwood’s cowardice.

Glennon and Holohan were then dropped for the defeat by Swindon.

We then steadied the ship somewhat against Barrow and Tranmere.

There was then the bizarre performance in the FL Trophy when Conteh and Andrews pulled out of tackles.

Next up was the 0-2 defeat to Accrington when Waterfall got sent off with a stupid decision to take a second yellow card. Ill discipline again.

Worse though was that Mrs Maher Tweeted that Niall wasn’t even injured.

Since then Maher has been absolute crap - almost Rodgers levels of crap.

Conclusion:

I don’t believe these players are as bad, on paper, as they have been on grass, since half-time at Bradford.

The whole Maher thing was odd. Was he even injured after the Wrexham match at all, or did something happen off the pitch? Apart from the odd bright spot, most of the senior players, with the exception of Rose, have effectively given up since Bradford equalised.

They are an absolute disgrace. They got Hurst sacked and, whether he’s good enough or not, they’re about to get Artell sacked too.

I went to Bradford they were excrement that day. Cook was injured and they had no fire power though we still didn’t manage to win . We are where we are now and trying to pin point a turning point from average to crap is  a waste of brain power .

Quoted from Knut Anders Fosters Voles

I do think something happened around that period.

We’d had a decent start. 9 points from 6 after a good home win against Gillingham.

We then lost in the FL Trophy and everyone was expecting a tough match away at an under pressure Bradford.

Bradford had an injury crisis and were awful but we looked so professional and classy in that first half. We genuinely looked like a top 7 side. Then we somehow let Bradford back into the match and they got their late equaliser.

Next up was Wrexham. Hurst went ultra cautious with 5 defenders but we never looked capable of keeping things tight or getting anything out of the match.

I do wonder if something was said in the squad / dressing room after or during that match.

Maher was injured in training that week following Wrexham (was he?). Amos was dropped and Glennon returned.

Then came Crawley and the first signs of a lack of discipline / professionalism. Posters don’t like me saying this, and Holohan did play a part in our goals, but for one of our most senior players to not track the same Crawley player twice in a few minutes was very un-Hurst like. There was also Glennon and Eastwood’s cowardice.

Glennon and Holohan were then dropped for the defeat by Swindon.

We then steadied the ship somewhat against Barrow and Tranmere.

There was then the bizarre performance in the FL Trophy when Conteh and Andrews pulled out of tackles.

Next up was the 0-2 defeat to Accrington when Waterfall got sent off with a stupid decision to take a second yellow card. Ill discipline again.

Worse though was that Mrs Maher Tweeted that Niall wasn’t even injured.

Since then Maher has been absolute crap - almost Rodgers levels of crap.

Conclusion:

I don’t believe these players are as bad, on paper, as they have been on grass, since half-time at Bradford.

The whole Maher thing was odd. Was he even injured after the Wrexham match at all, or did something happen off the pitch? Apart from the odd bright spot, most of the senior players, with the exception of Rose, have effectively given up since Bradford equalised.

They are an absolute disgrace. They got Hurst sacked and, whether he’s good enough or not, they’re about to get Artell sacked too.

I wonder whether Hurst's pre-match comments about Wrexham's spending making it "not fair" or words to that effect and then setting up so defensively and meekly giving them the points led to a bust up. This is a Wrexham who really aren't amazing either. Certainly it seemed to knock the team's confidence. Regardless, since then the players have been appalling both in application and in attitude and should be ashamed of themselves.

To answer the question our midfield is sh1te and never the same 2 games in a row under Hurst & Artell.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

To answer the question our midfield is sh1te and never the same 2 games in a row under Hurst & Artell.

Think you could be right that this could be one of the main issues for us, that as im looking back i realise has actually been an issue for a while

In the national league season we seemed to hit our stride when we settled into a stable midfield 3 of holohan, clifton and fox. Fox and holohan seemed to have a good balance that free'd up clifton to be less positional and be able to help out more defensively and in attack

Last season I wouldnt say we really found that consistant midfield, and that showed in our results. I think hurst wanted to have a more defensive midfielder but morris or green never really got going. With hunt he seemed to struggle in your average physical league 2 game, but when we played in the fa cup against bigger sides who stood off him he shone, and dictated play possibly similiarly to fox, then clifton and holohan also played in the fa cup games and that balance seemed to be found again

This season we tried to start out with hunt and conteh in the same lineup.and it didnt really work and we reverted to conteh in the fox role and holohan and clifton and started getting results. Thing is though, clifton hasnt been the same player this season, and when our results started to go wrong, he had a spell out the team (cant remember if he also had an injury around this time). Since hes been back in conistantly but i dont feel like his forms improved to justify it. Like it might actually be a compliment to how good he has been in previous seasons that the teams suffering but i do feel like hes just really off it. Not the only one though to be fair.

Its strange that weve changed manager but it feels like the same midfield merry go round continues, because of the fa cup id forgotten about last season and the constant faffing with the midfield 3 and bryn morris.

The answer is either thompson holohan and clifton and stick with it, or change the tactics completely

We made some good signings on paper. However losing max, smith, mcatee, emanual our leader waterfall being a year older. Also Taylor who held the ball up and had a great understanding with mcatee are all things to consider. I remember being at donny away and half the fans shouting we want Hursty out!  I thought becareful what you wish for an fa cup quarter final and a top half finish dosnt look to shabby compared to this season. I know Hurst signed alot of these players but I do think if he'd been here in January he would of rectified things. He always had good Januarys in the transfer market. Also I thought after his achievements last season and the incredible conference season he had probably done enough by the owners to give him chance to of stayed longer and like I say had a January to sort the squad out.

Quoted from Ashby mariner

We made some good signings on paper. However losing max, smith, mcatee, emanual our leader waterfall being a year older. Also Taylor who held the ball up and had a great understanding with mcatee are all things to consider. I remember being at donny away and half the fans shouting we want Hursty out!  I thought becareful what you wish for an fa cup quarter final and a top half finish dosnt look to shabby compared to this season. I know Hurst signed alot of these players but I do think if he'd been here in January he would of rectified things. He always had good Januarys in the transfer market. Also I thought after his achievements last season and the incredible conference season he had probably done enough by the owners to give him chance to of stayed longer and like I say had a January to sort the squad out.

Except for the last time we were in this position.

Hurst definitely copulated up on the recruitment and let too many solid players go. He does love a churn and I think the risk he took ultimately backfired because so many of the individuals he brought in are poor.

However, I do think he would have tweaked it in January as he did during our promotion season and in the last one. Don't forget he brought in the likes of George Lloyd and Emmanuel in January 2023.

My point is, I don’t think we’d be in such as mess had PH stayed. Maybe a statto can tell us how many points we’d be on based on his record prior to getting the boot?

Quoted from davmariner

Hurst definitely copulated up on the recruitment and let too many solid players go. He does love a churn and I think the risk he took ultimately backfired because so many of the individuals he brought in are poor.

However, I do think he would have tweaked it in January as he did during our promotion season and in the last one. Don't forget he brought in the likes of George Lloyd and Emmanuel in January 2023.

My point is, I don’t think we’d be in such as mess had PH stayed. Maybe a statto can tell us how many points we’d be on based on his record prior to getting the boot?

I made this point before we sacked Hurst. I said if we changed, the new manager would go with his own players and quality is limited in January. Hurst himself wouldn't be happy with this and would want to change things. I was one of the few here still defending him.

Now I find myself one of the few defending DA, because the thing most don't realise is, changing doesn't always work. You always have the same squad and you need someone who can get something out of that squad.

Quoted from AncientExiledMariner

Hunt has been injured. Charles is coming back to fitness and cannot fully last the 90, Eisa is scoring though. Glennon was good going forward, but getting shredded. Hume looked quite good against Stockport from the bits I saw.

Glennon was made to look worse than he was because he was getting no cover especially from Maher who has absolutely no positional sense.- just back off back off until the forward is in shooting range. - when he does tackle he's a yard too late. In any team you need a strong backbone which we haven't had since Waterfall in his prime. 3 at the back is the only option but who do we have that we can put faith in.

The biggest mistake was imposing a playing style on the new manager. That should be 100% down to the coaching staff they should be able to play how they want whatever is most effective.  The Grimsby Way was a fantasy, rolling back the clock to a forgone age.

Quoted from GrimRob

The biggest mistake was imposing a playing style on the new manager. That should be 100% down to the coaching staff they should be able to play how they want whatever is most effective.  The Grimsby Way was a fantasy, rolling back the clock to a forgone age.

They didn't force it on Artell, they picked him because that's his style.

I think we've had a lot of luck the last 2 years. The promotion was the most luck I can remember a team having ever. And the cup run was hiding the inadequacies of that team who had spirit but little quality. I think this luck has meant the owners have bought into their own rhetoric and thinking it's easy if you do things the 'right way'.

The fa cup last season masked a lot of problems we hardly won at home last season up until the last few games.

Quoted from Yoda

The fa cup last season masked a lot of problems we hardly won at home last season up until the last few games.

Yeah, but everyone understood why we struggled. We only had 55 days between the play-off Final and the L2 season starting. The play-off Final was 29 days after the L2 regular season finished and all the other clubs were well in to recruiting players before we knew which division we would be in.