Another 3 million quid issued in shares to their American investors .
Just to compete in league 1 .
I see why Jason 'got tetchy ' at the fans forum , would love to know how deep him and Pettit are in now , being left with BP in a state of disrepair ,tucked up by our former leader and then taking some flak from the less optimistic section of our fanbase .
Another 3 million quid issued in shares to their American investors .
Just to compete in league 1 .
I see why Jason 'got tetchy ' at the fans forum , would love to know how deep him and Pettit are in now , being left with BP in a state of disrepair ,tucked up by our former leader and then taking some flak from our less optimistic section of our fanbase .
Hell of a task
Tucked up might be wrong , I’d of expected JS and AP to of gone into this with their eyes firmly wide open? I’ve said before we are now a league 2 team now , when struggling we’ll dip in the conference, a great season will see us hit the play offs at best . It’s where we are after 20 years of neglect
Another 3 million quid issued in shares to their American investors .
Just to compete in league 1 .
I see why Jason 'got tetchy ' at the fans forum , would love to know how deep him and Pettit are in now , being left with BP in a state of disrepair ,tucked up by our former leader and then taking some flak from our less optimistic section of our fanbase .
Hell of a task
Interesting, that. It just so happens that their losses are projected to be £3m for the year too. Amazing coincidence.
People look at Lincoln as some beacon of football business utopia, but without these ‘investments’ they’d be knackered, despite gates of 8000 every home game.
Interesting, that. It just so happens that their losses are projected to be £3m for the year too. Amazing coincidence.
People look at Lincoln as some beacon of football business utopia, but without these ‘investments’ they’d be knackered, despite gates of 8000 every home game.
There's only so long that the investors will keep plugging these massive gaps in the finances, particularly if attendances keep dropping as quickly as they are doing (surprise surprise). They're 9th in League One and in the middle of their most sustained run of "success" since the 1950's but there were 2000 spare seats in the home end on Saturday. And thus far this season they're averaging 800 less per game than they were two seasons ago despite performing better than they did that season and currently being top half. Their away attendances are still pretty pathetic as well given where they are in the league system. Their last Saturday away game they only took to Wigan the same amount we took to Milton Keynes on a Tuesday night (which is a longer journey too). Plus we'd only won one game in about ten! Away attendances are generally a decent indicator of "hardcore" fan numbers and Lincoln's are staggeringly low as a percentage of their home attendances which isn't surprising given the high number of new fans and particularly families that are watching them.
Eventually there'll be a straw that breaks the camels back. Either they'll have a very poor season and the vast majority of the new fans (which is approximately 5000 of their regular 7500 at home games) will stop going or the funding will be cut leading to a poor season and get the same outcome. They'll eventually be back to their natural level and back to having less than 5000 at home games.
Eventually there'll be a straw that breaks the camels back. Either they'll have a very poor season and the vast majority of the new fans (which is approximately 5000 of their regular 7500 at home games) will stop going or the funding will be cut leading to a poor season and get the same outcome. They'll eventually be back to their natural level and back to having less than 5000 at home games.
It's ok trying to have a dig at Lincoln but that last paragraph could quite easily describe us. It's football....without massive, nigh on bottomless, investment most provincial football clubs have ups and downs, either striking lucky with a manager or a striker and elevating themselves above their natural status for a period, I have seen it early 80's and then again early 2000's with Buckley mk2. It's the circle of football life that about 80 out of 92 teams face to one extent or another.
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Personally, I can see both JS and AP being active in proper business circles in trying to encourage quality long term safe investment into the club.
These guys have both business acumen and high morals.
Both would be qualities needed to further cement a long term continual progression for facilities, any future stadium possibility, and higher level playing staff.
Chancers should not apply as I guess full vetting would be completed in a very thorough manner.
Personally, I can see both JS and AP being active in proper business circles in trying to encourage quality long term safe investment into the club.
These guys have both business acumen and high morals.
Both would be qualities needed to further cement a long term continual progression for facilities, any future stadium possibility, and higher level playing staff.
Chancers should not apply as I guess full vetting would be completed in a very thorough manner.
It's ok trying to have a dig at Lincoln but that last paragraph could quite easily describe us. It's football....without massive, nigh on bottomless, investment most provincial football clubs have ups and downs, either striking lucky with a manager or a striker and elevating themselves above their natural status for a period, I have seen it early 80's and then again early 2000's with Buckley mk2. It's the circle of football life that about 80 out of 92 teams face to one extent or another.
Of course all lower league clubs have ups and downs. But I would bet you can't find an example where short term success led to such a massive increase in attendances over such a short period of time as with Lincoln. Their attendances literally tripled over the space of a few months on the back of a great league campaign and an unprecedented cup run. Before that the city had turned it's back on the club and they struggled to get more than 2500 at home games. And, as we'll never let them forget, they brought less than 500 to a game at BP on a bank holiday not long before their success.
Conversely our attendances are up but not nearly to the same degree in percentage terms and they also didn't go up with any "success". We had more fans at home games from the off in the NL once Fenty had gone and still averaged higher than we had done in L2 during that horrific run of games where we couldn't buy a win. This was off the back of one of the worst seasons in the club's history too.
Lincoln's attendances are dropping even now with them being higher in the football pyramid than they've been for 40 years, you're telling me that the new glory-seeking fans will stick around when they have a relegation season? Some of them will but I suspect they'll see a big drop off in attendances quite quickly. Furthermore, if their attendances are dropping after their most successful spell in living memory but they're still losing money hand over fist just to stand still in L1 then as an investor you'd probably have to ask "what's the point?".
Lincoln will do a Scunny they must of last over 10 million in the last 3 seasons.
I don't think they'll do a Scunny because the money has been put in to the club in the form of shares being purchased rather than loaned to the club by nefarious individuals. However, if it's costing this much for them to just stay midtable in L1 and be losing 10% of their home attendances then eventually the investors will start lowering the budgets to reduce their losses.
It's ok trying to have a dig at Lincoln but that last paragraph could quite easily describe us. It's football....without massive, nigh on bottomless, investment most provincial football clubs have ups and downs, either striking lucky with a manager or a striker and elevating themselves above their natural status for a period, I have seen it early 80's and then again early 2000's with Buckley mk2. It's the circle of football life that about 80 out of 92 teams face to one extent or another.
I think the day will have to come soon where football players will have to accept a lot less in wages. I think once the top six leave for whichever super league gets going it’ll at least give the rest of the remaining clubs more realistic ambitions. We probably won’t have clubs like Brentford and Luton with a wage bill in the 100s of millions and all the other clubs further down the leagues will reduce accordingly.
Our club is probably in a lot worse state than many others as the infrastructure needs a lot spending on it too .
I noticed how their away followings have plummeted - 350 to Cambridge the other midweek, we count that distance as a local derby.
I’m not sure whether their home “ attendances” are tickets sold or the actual crowd like ours. Their ST numbers are about the same as ours. They have more away fans visiting SB but if they declare real attendances then they must have a lot better utilisation by their STH than we do. A £3 million loss is a scary number whichever.
I see why Jason 'got tetchy ' at the fans forum , would love to know how deep him and Pettit are in now , being left with BP in a state of disrepair ,tucked up by our former leader and then taking some flak from the less optimistic section of our fanbase.
I’m sure Jason & Andrew did all the correct due diligence when they bought the club. They must have known what they were buying. They can’t really complain now. It can’t be a surprise that BP is falling apart at the seams around them.
I imagine any frustration might be with their own failure to find suitable people to come on board as additional co-owners to lighten the financial burden on them both.
I noticed how their away followings have plummeted - 350 to Cambridge the other midweek, we count that distance as a local derby.
I’m not sure whether their home “ attendances” are tickets sold or the actual crowd like ours. Their ST numbers are about the same as ours. They have more away fans visiting SB but if they declare real attendances then they must have a lot better utilisation by their STH than we do. A £3 million loss is a scary number whichever.
They’ve always had terrible support to be honest , they seem to have been able to get fans to attend at the Bank for the last few years but this hasn’t been backed up with their away support .
I can remember them bringing 400 on a Boxing Day one year which kind of says it all. Even at our lowest we always sold all our tickets for our local games
I’m sure Jason & Andrew did all the correct due diligence when they bought the club. They must have known what they were buying. They can’t really complain now. It can’t be a surprise that BP is falling apart at the seams around them.
I imagine any frustration might be with their own failure to find suitable people to come on board as additional co-owners to lighten the financial burden on them both.
I don't know a good analogy might be a second hand car - you can look under the bonnet and everything looks fine , the seller tells you his good lady will run forever , but then a few months later something goes that the new owner didn't know about followed by many other problems .
I agree on the second paragraph though ,he touched on it at the forum - selling investors (legitimate, not wrong uns) something that isn't going to make them anything financially is a hard sell (unless there are some multi millionaire town fans out there somewhere ) it's probably a lot more difficult than they thought it would be and they are having to put in more £££££ than they thought they would for no return ; and as Stockwood pointed out it's a unique business in that the better you do the more it costs/you lose .
They must have a limit as to what they are willing to put in surely .
I would be interested as to how Lincoln managed to recruit all of these outside American investors - maybe they have sold them the dream of going right through ?
What are the US investors hoping to achieve? I assume it’s not simply a vanity project so what is the endgame? Get into the Championship and then sell on for a profit?
In that case they would need someone willing to part with over ten million to acquire an unsustainable club with a small fan base requiring regular six figure cash injections.
What are the US investors hoping to achieve? I assume it’s not simply a vanity project so what is the endgame? Get into the Championship and then sell on for a profit?
In that case they would need someone willing to part with over ten million to acquire an unsustainable club with a small fan base requiring regular six figure cash injections.
I just don’t get it. Anyone got an ideas?
To do a Luton and go right through gradually Ron I think
Look at Swann at our neighbours wanting take them right through , and how that ended .
I don't think that will happen at Lincoln tbf but I can't see them getting to the Champ and eventually drop a little bit when the more heavily bankrolled clubs end up in league 1 .
Same as many others will chase the dream , a one in a million chance .
That's always my question when it comes to Lincoln and their investors, what's the drive behind investment?
Not a chance in hell they're investing for the good of it, nor should they either. It'll be the same when 1878 bring outside investment into the club, whoever is investing money in the set-up will want a return on it at some point.
Will player sales bring that? Probably not.
If Lincoln get to the Championship, does that make them sellable enough to recoup in excess of £10million? Or probably a better question would be how much more investment do they need just to get to the Championship. Luton went through but to my knowledge they're not funded by outside investment. Luton are historically a far, far bigger club than Lincoln with a far more established fanbase. Their worst season was a 7th place in the Conference (12/13) yet they still average 5800 at home games that season. Whilst Lincoln have averaged better than that for the last 5 seasons, the last time they bettered it was 1977. The same season Luton only got 5800 coming through their gate, Lincoln averaged 2100 in the same league.
I'm not close enough to say it's sustainable or not, I don't think any of us are. I don't think a slight drop-off this season in gates is an indicator that the bubble has burst. Nor do I think their away followings are either, they've never travelled well and ultimately how many fans you take on the road has intercourse all input financially to your club. But from the outside looking in, it doesn't look like a model that can take them any further than this position of trying but not quite breaking into those promotion challengers in League One.
If I was a Lincoln fan I would be a little nervous that the position is very dependent on ongoing investment, but those investments keep coming and coming...
This is just a very rough calculation, basically based on not much, and assuming each club has a squad of 20 players plus manager, any assistants other coaches admin staff etc would all be additional.
Premiership, average weekly wage, £80k = £87 million plus a year. Championship, average weekly wage £20k =£21 million plus a year League 1, average weekly wage £5k = £5 million plus a year League 2, average weekly wage £1500 = £1.6 million plus a year
Therefore it’s purely tv money that is allowing clubs to pay the wages they do, and could town afford promotion without additional investors coming on board, considering that Blundell Park is nearly full now. Obviously the above figures do not show income, gate receipts tv money etc.
I think any club that is having significant sums pumped into it has a right to get nervous once it stops progressing at the current level of investment. Lincoln require £3m a year to finish mid-table in League One. The King's Lynn owner is now begging for investment and saying he won't plug the £300k gap in the finances this season. They are full-time with crowds of 800 in the NLN, and currently 21st. The original club, King's Lynn FC folded in 2010 after getting kicked out of the NLN for their ground not meeting requirements following promotion the previous year. I don't think there is interest in King's Lynn for a full-time team, but their owner has pumped money in, taken them to the NL, got relegated, almost got promoted last season, and now it's tough, he's spitting his dummy out. It happens all of the time and I do wonder when the Lincoln investors decide they aren't going to cover the losses anymore.
The bonkers thing at Lincoln, is that their fans are more concerned about the number of supporters watching games at home for free on dodgy sticks, than they are about the £3million pa losses. And the amount of revenue not being gained because of dodgy sticks, is a real slither and thin end of the wedge when it comes to their accumulated losses.
Time to resurrect my Fishy signature again. So here goes.
The bonkers thing at Lincoln, is that their fans are more concerned about the number of supporters watching games at home for free on dodgy sticks, than they are about the £3million pa losses. And the amount of revenue not being gained because of dodgy sticks, is a real slither and thin end of the wedge when it comes to their accumulated losses.
Yeah I read that and found it a strange argument to be honest it's hardly going to bridge a 3 million pound shortfall is it .
They have fell for the smokescreen I would suggest and are bickering about it .
That's always my question when it comes to Lincoln and their investors, what's the drive behind investment?
Not a chance in hell they're investing for the good of it, nor should they either. It'll be the same when 1878 bring outside investment into the club, whoever is investing money in the set-up will want a return on it at some point.
Will player sales bring that? Probably not.
If Lincoln get to the Championship, does that make them sellable enough to recoup in excess of £10million? Or probably a better question would be how much more investment do they need just to get to the Championship. Luton went through but to my knowledge they're not funded by outside investment. Luton are historically a far, far bigger club than Lincoln with a far more established fanbase. Their worst season was a 7th place in the Conference (12/13) yet they still average 5800 at home games that season. Whilst Lincoln have averaged better than that for the last 5 seasons, the last time they bettered it was 1977. The same season Luton only got 5800 coming through their gate, Lincoln averaged 2100 in the same league.
I'm not close enough to say it's sustainable or not, I don't think any of us are. I don't think a slight drop-off this season in gates is an indicator that the bubble has burst. Nor do I think their away followings are either, they've never travelled well and ultimately how many fans you take on the road has intercourse all input financially to your club. But from the outside looking in, it doesn't look like a model that can take them any further than this position of trying but not quite breaking into those promotion challengers in League One.
If I was a Lincoln fan I would be a little nervous that the position is very dependent on ongoing investment, but those investments keep coming and coming...
I am not sure if you are just being negative because it is Lincoln or not, but the population has grown by 30k in 20 years in Lincoln and continues to grow, so I think crowds, whilst lower this year have remained stable and may well do so. I don't think it is just because we are not playing that well that crowds have dipped, the economic climate will play a part. Lincoln is also a growing city, that has significant investment and lower crime so is an attractive place currently. I personally think the football club have seen this and tried to grow with it - With some success, and changes to the ground/pitch and training facilities which put us on an even keel with a lot of L1 clubs.
As for investment and going down the same root as Scunthorpe, I think that must be a joke - we will be nothing like them, we might dip to L2 occasionally, and flirt with the championship at times, but we are in safe hands. Investment is in shares, and Clive appears to be careful with who invests in the club - The Jabara family seem to be in for the long haul, so whilst I see some on here wanting us to go pop, I think we will be fine.
Football wise, losing all our forwards to injury has been a freak, with Tyler Walker now ruled out for the season we have had some awful luck, so to be 9th I think we have done well, albeit it is a dull watch scoring a goal a game. However, I much prefer watching Derby away Thursday, and Bolton at home Boxing day than watching some of L2's fixtures. No being salty here towards Grimsby, I think Artell is a decent appointment - Your owners are good too, but if you think you are going to sail past us, without Millions of wise investment I think you are mistaken. I actually wish you good fortune, I like Lincolnshire clubs being in the league and doing well, so long as were doing the best!
The bonkers thing at Lincoln, is that their fans are more concerned about the number of supporters watching games at home for free on dodgy sticks, than they are about the £3million pa losses. And the amount of revenue not being gained because of dodgy sticks, is a real slither and thin end of the wedge when it comes to their accumulated losses.
You're right, but I was surprised when it was quoted at between 150-200k.
From everything I know from Imp supporting mates is that the American guys are genuinely into supporting the club and their South African Chairman, Clive Nate’s, is a smart cookie and it’s him that has attracted the investment and only surprise seems to be that one of the American investors was supposedly going to take over as Chairman last summer but for some reason this didn’t happen.
Personally I think their crowds have stayed up pretty well as I know, much like ourselves, their performances and results in home matches has not been great and believe they still have over 6000 season ticket holders and an expanded ground capacity so they can have crowds of 12000 plus. In relation to the ground they are in a much better position than us to expand and/or replace or redevelop stands not yet touched. Plus the City Council is willing to let them build a new ground should they want in the now started western corridor which will see another 3500 homes built between the bypass and city centre. Lincoln’s current ground and surrounding area is also much better placed than BP to be turned into an area of housing.
To me their situation just demonstrates how financially difficult it is to progress up the football ladder and makes me wonder how we are going to manage given the state of our ground which is ultimately going to restrict the number of fans who can attend.
Love us to be back above them but think we are a little way of achieving this and don’t believe their demise is as imminent as some may have suggested in this thread. Don’t mind being wrong though.
I like Lincolnshire clubs being in the league and doing well, so long as were doing the best!
But you're not including Scunny in that, surely.....you, us and Boston playing each other would be fine but we all want Scunny to be 2 divisions lower.
Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
Well what a load of balderdash you all speak ! You have a ground thats a dump,apart from one stand thats a weird construction ! I dont know how you all think your going to progress up the leagues without investment ,we have approximately 50 partners in the club plus some wealthy usa/south african investors.We have been investing in our structure for the last few years ground and players,whilst you have rotted away .
Please tell me how your going to progress up a division or 2 because your currently in the bottom 3rd of league 2 going nowhere.You aint going anywhere near the championship let alone league anytime soon without significant money ! UTI
Of course all lower league clubs have ups and downs. But I would bet you can't find an example where short term success led to such a massive increase in attendances over such a short period of time as with Lincoln. Their attendances literally tripled over the space of a few months on the back of a great league campaign and an unprecedented cup run. Before that the city had turned it's back on the club and they struggled to get more than 2500 at home games. And, as we'll never let them forget, they brought less than 500 to a game at BP on a bank holiday not long before their success.
Conversely our attendances are up but not nearly to the same degree in percentage terms and they also didn't go up with any "success". We had more fans at home games from the off in the NL once Fenty had gone and still averaged higher than we had done in L2 during that horrific run of games where we couldn't buy a win. This was off the back of one of the worst seasons in the club's history too.
Lincoln's attendances are dropping even now with them being higher in the football pyramid than they've been for 40 years, you're telling me that the new glory-seeking fans will stick around when they have a relegation season? Some of them will but I suspect they'll see a big drop off in attendances quite quickly. Furthermore, if their attendances are dropping after their most successful spell in living memory but they're still losing money hand over fist just to stand still in L1 then as an investor you'd probably have to ask "what's the point?".
The City of Lincoln has also had plenty of development and financial investment along with growing University campus in very recent times. You could argue that historic Lincoln City didnt harness the potential support , their old board maybe like our old boards more "wealthy locals" rather than mega rich, their new board struck lucky (or did their due diligence superbly) with the Cowleys , the new board are better motivated and smarter at bringing in investment and they fully harnessed the promotion/ cup run interest and got in extra bums , but yes , "new" support still wants feeding success otherwise it loses interest and will drop off if it doesnt get hooked on either the team or the matchday experience.
From my own town watching career ,in the eighties we went from 10k average to 5k average over 5/6 seasons and then down to 3/4 k average which i think coincided with two promotions to new higher level and then a tail off as we ground to a halt and then went backwards.
Would be interesting to know the different social economic comparisons for both areas as that will also paint a picture.
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You have " northseamariner" ! You need significant investment /investors ( a loose term in football as nobody makes money apart from premiershite club owners) . Theres no doubt fenty has held you back big time ,as he didnt have the nouse to get grants to develop your ground like we did. Our owners have stated our aim is the championship and we are putting things in place on and off the pitch to do that! The 2 sets of american owners are genuinely involved because they want to be not to make money ,investors is a stupid term in football.
Unless Jason and Andrew are billionaires i would bet you will get nowhere the bonkers championship ( preston i believe loose £12+million a year) wages.
You have " northseamariner" ! You need significant investment /investors ( a loose term in football as nobody makes money apart from premiershite club owners) . Theres no doubt fenty has held you back big time ,as he didnt have the nouse to get grants to develop your ground like we did. Our owners have stated our aim is the championship and we are putting things in place on and off the pitch to do that! The 2 sets of american owners are genuinely involved because they want to be not to make money ,investors is a stupid term in football.
Unless Jason and Andrew are billionaires i would bet you will get nowhere the bonkers championship ( preston i believe loose £12+million a year) wages.
Uti
I dont disagree with that. We are a million miles from the Championship. We have a section of fans who are stuck 25 years ago. The ground is a dump, We’ve been a basket case of a club for 16/17of the last 20 years.
Jason and Andrew are good guys. But we havent the capital to compete at the highest end, Not without significant investment from elsewhere
Well what a load of balderdash you all speak ! You have a ground thats a dump,apart from one stand thats a weird construction ! I dont know how you all think your going to progress up the leagues without investment ,we have approximately 50 partners in the club plus some wealthy usa/south african investors.We have been investing in our structure for the last few years ground and players,whilst you have rotted away .
Please tell me how your going to progress up a division or 2 because your currently in the bottom 3rd of league 2 going nowhere.You aint going anywhere near the championship let alone league anytime soon without significant money ! UTI
I agree and disagree - I think any club in league 2 have a punchers chance of getting out , especially when the heavily bankrolled clubs go up (Stockport , Mansfield and Wrexham probably this season ) which will make it a slightly easier league , at least financially .
It seems the gap up to league 1 is pretty drastic though and investment is a must for anything but a relegation fight .
My main point of the original post was to highlight how much it is taking to compete and try to move forward in league one and also show how much our owners have put in just to get out of the NL and compete in league 2 and make some improvements to the ground which is maybe 3 million in 3 years probably closer to 5 and how it doesn't seem right that even lower league /non league football is so unsustainable rather than a mammary for tat about Town and Lincoln , not my place .
Did we crow/Lord it over the other Lincolnshire clubs whist we were top dog for the vast part of our history? I suppose had social media and forums been around we would have.
Football has changed, and it has taken a long time to catch on due to having a terrible owner but we can easily match Lincoln and most clubs in leagues 1 and 2. These things are cyclical and no doubt our time will come again and when it does it will have been worth waiting for.
Lincoln are one division above us so I don't think they should have visions of grandeur.
Yes it will take considerable (careful) investment to crack on but the owners will surely know that and are making plans.
Lincoln are where they are because they have found investors willing to pump millions of pounds a year in. They are not alone in that. Which means that it's almost impossible to compete at the top even at L1 and L2 level without some such funding.
Yes, there are exceptions now and then. But the simple fact is that the best players will go where they are paid best. That means the cost of having a competitive squad is likely to be unaffordable for clubs who attempt to stick within their normal income. Of course this is all well and good as long as the investors are happy to continue chucking money down the bottomless pit but, as we have seen countless times, the brown stuff really hits the fan (and the fans!) when they have had enough.
From everything I know from Imp supporting mates is that the American guys are genuinely into supporting the club and their South African Chairman, Clive Nate’s, is a smart cookie and it’s him that has attracted the investment and only surprise seems to be that one of the American investors was supposedly going to take over as Chairman last summer but for some reason this didn’t happen.
Personally I think their crowds have stayed up pretty well as I know, much like ourselves, their performances and results in home matches has not been great and believe they still have over 6000 season ticket holders and an expanded ground capacity so they can have crowds of 12000 plus. In relation to the ground they are in a much better position than us to expand and/or replace or redevelop stands not yet touched. Plus the City Council is willing to let them build a new ground should they want in the now started western corridor which will see another 3500 homes built between the bypass and city centre. Lincoln’s current ground and surrounding area is also much better placed than BP to be turned into an area of housing.
To me their situation just demonstrates how financially difficult it is to progress up the football ladder and makes me wonder how we are going to manage given the state of our ground which is ultimately going to restrict the number of fans who can attend.
Love us to be back above them but think we are a little way of achieving this and don’t believe their demise is as imminent as some may have suggested in this thread. Don’t mind being wrong though.
Didn't they ditch the capacity increase though due to Covid and operating costs(losses) and downgraded to building some sort of community hub (which is good in intself tbf) at the back of the stand they were gearing up to expand , so there capacity is still around 10k for the short to medium term ?
We can easily match lincoln!?! Please tell me how ? Your support is good ,no doubt there but your ground is shite and lets be honest your infrastructure is also and wont change for many years .If you can knock 2/3 sides down and rebuild them then you will easily compete with us and our 10800 capacity and then you need income from boxes etc etc.You probably could compete in wages as our top wages arent massive ! We have a youth policy thats about to bear fruition of the investment over the last few years.Your light years away from competing/sustaining league 1 football im afraid let alone your rightful championship place! Haha
To compare us to Scunny is quite ludicrous. Re the americans ! The Jabbara family are multi multi millionaires ,im not sure if a billionaire and its a hard question to ask but they have genuinely fallen in love with the club and arent walking away anytime soon A million quid has just been put in by them ! I dont know to much about the other americans but im told they have substantial funds and are also in for the long term with us! Nobody is leaving us in the lurch any day very soon and our overspend is wiped out every year in the form of shares.
"UTIs are usually caused by bacteria from poo entering the urinary tract".
Not my words, but those surfaced by Google via our wonderful NHS. One of the more left-field reasons I've heard for celebrating one's football team of choice, but I'm certainly not going to give you stick for it; after all, you've got poo entering your urinary tract. You poor sód.
One more thing re the second group of investors they looked at about 200 clubs in europe and realised we are different as 99% wanted there money and no involvement in running the club ! We make them bring there business skills etc to our club.
Keiran Maguire a football finance expert believes we are one of the best run clubs in this country ,so sorry if anybody thinks we are going to implode anytime soon.
I do worry about the losses as i was involved in the club when we nearly went bust @2000s however like everybody else i believe in our owners who wont let us down im 150% sure!
See you in league 1 next year or the year after ! ABSOLUTELY NO CHANCE.
What is Sincil Bank like nowadays? When we played there last it was an archetypal lower league ground,so it has not suddenly been transformed into the Amex has it?
We can easily match lincoln!?! Please tell me how ? Your support is good ,no doubt there but your ground is shite and lets be honest your infrastructure is also and wont change for many years .If you can knock 2/3 sides down and rebuild them then you will easily compete with us and our 10800 capacity and then you need income from boxes etc etc.
Uti
We've obviously touched a nerve.
What good is your extra capacity if you're not even close to filling it? Not been close to selling out the home end in the league this season despite being top half. Your attendances are down quite significantly on your last season in L2 and that's before taking into account that you're no doubt getting significantly higher average away attendances in L1 to compensate for some of the fans who have stopped going. What will happen when you have a legitimately bad season?
There's really not much stopping Town from getting to League 1 and sustaining that level. Other smaller clubs are showing the way and gaining League 1 statis. And that's where Lincoln are pretty much stuck. A Lincoln supporting colleague of mine is a little dubious of the setup, Appleton and Kennedy were both very ready to move on, suggestions that Jez George and other staff are a little too powerful in the running of things. I'd be more than happy if we get promotion obviously but I'd be immensely proud to achieve it under a board of Grimsby folk who are also ardent fans compared to a bunch of Americans and an Everton supporting Sth African.
It's hilarious being schooled by an Imp, because they have spent a couple of years in League 1.
Doesn't seem that long ago they would have struggled to fill one stand, and now they are the champions of Lincolnshire, that well known hot bed of massive footballing heritage.
Look at us, halfway up League 1. Take that Gy, Boston, Gainsborough and Scunny.
What good is your extra capacity if you're not even close to filling it? Not been close to selling out the home end in the league this season despite being top half. Your attendances are down quite significantly on your last season in L2 and that's before taking into account that you're no doubt getting significantly higher average away attendances in L1 to compensate for some of the fans who have stopped going. What will happen when you have a legitimately bad season?
Its only an extra 1500 seats more than BP anyway you would think the range is Nou Camp V BP the way some of them are going on . They are not filling 2500 of them anyhow .
It's hilarious being schooled by an Imp, because they have spent a couple of years in League 1.
Doesn't seem that long ago they would have struggled to fill one stand, and now they are the champions of Lincolnshire, that well known hot bed of massive footballing heritage.
Look at us, halfway up League 1. Take that Gy, Boston, Gainsborough and Scunny.
So Lincoln should get back in in their box and stop showing any ambition . How predicable you are.
Stupid we turned our back on relocation. Chance won’t come again without a sugar daddy.
Interesting to hear AP stated in a podcast they were privy to the 10 year BP status report when buying the club.
You would have thought buying GTFC was a dream, according to the accounts it was sustainable, no profitable, with no outside debt and 800k in the bank. Few players on the books (a mangers dream). Playing assets soon to be sold for next to nowt. Relocation options, fish docks / freeman street. Fans backing.
Yet JS stated at the begining that BP had potential as the ground was not full every week and the club must be sustainable.
Sounds to me like the buyer was made aware and they should have a plan. Or at least I hope they do have one.
Stupid we turned our back on relocation. Chance won’t come again without a sugar daddy.
Interesting to hear AP stated in a podcast they were privy to the 10 year BP status report when buying the club.
You would have thought buying GTFC was a dream, according to the accounts it was sustainable, no profitable, with no outside debt and 800k in the bank. Few players on the books (a mangers dream). Playing assets soon to be sold for next to nowt. Relocation options, fish docks / freeman street. Fans backing.
Yet JS stated at the begining that BP had potential as the ground was not full every week and the club must be sustainable.
Sounds to me like the buyer was made aware and they should have a plan. Or at least I hope they do have one.
I suppose people felt "that boat has sailed" numerous times over the generations regarding various things, but the sun always comes up and undoubtedly there will be opportunities in the future for us to move/improve and take advantage of new situations as they arise.
We have to believe better days are ahead for the club to keep everyone motivated.
Stupid we turned our back on relocation. Chance won’t come again without a sugar daddy.
Interesting to hear AP stated in a podcast they were privy to the 10 year BP status report when buying the club.
You would have thought buying GTFC was a dream, according to the accounts it was sustainable, no profitable, with no outside debt and 800k in the bank. Few players on the books (a mangers dream). Playing assets soon to be sold for next to nowt. Relocation options, fish docks / freeman street. Fans backing.
Yet JS stated at the begining that BP had potential as the ground was not full every week and the club must be sustainable.
Sounds to me like the buyer was made aware and they should have a plan. Or at least I hope they do have one.
I'm not sure they were privvy to the 10 year audit , and if they were the amount of work required from it was a shock ; on the DN35 podcast interview that's the impression I got anyway . Is there another inteview with Pettit?
I suppose people felt "that boat has sailed" numerous times over the generations regarding various things, but the sun always comes up and undoubtedly there will be opportunities in the future for us to move/improve and take advantage of new situations as they arise.
We have to believe better days are ahead for the club to keep everyone motivated.
It's better now isn't it ?
No false promises , a relatively stable club with a goal to continually improve . I think we have it quite good really .
I think things will continue to improve in a gradual fashion what that looks like in 10 years time who know's , but I think we will be in a much better spot than 2023 for sure .
I'm not sure they were privvy to the 10 year audit , and if they were the amount of work required from it was a shock ; on the DN35 podcast interview that's the impression I got anyway . Is there another inteview with Pettit?
Everything is a shock. It fits the poor weee narrative and fuels the fans. And yes Andrew confirmed they were given the document.
I think any club that is having significant sums pumped into it has a right to get nervous once it stops progressing at the current level of investment. Lincoln require £3m a year to finish mid-table in League One. The King's Lynn owner is now begging for investment and saying he won't plug the £300k gap in the finances this season. They are full-time with crowds of 800 in the NLN, and currently 21st. The original club, King's Lynn FC folded in 2010 after getting kicked out of the NLN for their ground not meeting requirements following promotion the previous year. I don't think there is interest in King's Lynn for a full-time team, but their owner has pumped money in, taken them to the NL, got relegated, almost got promoted last season, and now it's tough, he's spitting his dummy out. It happens all of the time and I do wonder when the Lincoln investors decide they aren't going to cover the losses anymore.
I know someone who’s well informed at KLT and Stephen Cleave is skint. It’s not that he doesn’t want to continue bankrolling the club. It’s simply that he no longer has the money to.
I applaud the Lincoln fans for thinking their club is financially ok, surely if a sugar daddy is having to pump in £3 million a year just to standstill, it should be a concern. If I had a shop and it was losing £80 grand a year it wouldn’t be long before it was closed.
Stupid we turned our back on relocation. Chance won’t come again without a sugar daddy.
Interesting to hear AP stated in a podcast they were privy to the 10 year BP status report when buying the club.
You would have thought buying GTFC was a dream, according to the accounts it was sustainable, no profitable, with no outside debt and 800k in the bank. Few players on the books (a mangers dream). Playing assets soon to be sold for next to nowt. Relocation options, fish docks / freeman street. Fans backing.
Yet JS stated at the beginning that BP had potential as the ground was not full every week and the club must be sustainable.
Sounds to me like the buyer was made aware and they should have a plan. Or at least I hope they do have one.
The fact they we don't fill BP week in week out so we don't need a new ground is a pretty poor argument. However I do understand the need to concentrate on other areas of the football club first. But a long term future will require a new ground. 4K plus attendance at the roads and streets are gridlocked, the ground has poor facilities and can't be improved significantly to make it a long term viable option to take the club forward. It's a dump but all we have at the moment. Teams like Rotherham, Hull, Shrewsbury, Colchester, MK Dons (sort of), Boston, York, Chesterfield to name a few didn't fill their grounds and they seemed to have the ambition to move and improve the fan experience. Attendances will increase because of this and then it's up to the management and players to keep them there and increase attendances further.
The fact they we don't fill BP week in week out so we don't need a new ground is pretty poor argument. However I do understand the need to concentrate on other areas of the football club first. But a long term future will require a new ground. 4K plus attendance at the roads and streets are gridlocked, the ground has poor facilities and can't be improved significantly to make it a long term viable option to take the club forward. It's a dump but all we have at the moment. Teams like Rotherham, Hull, Shrewsbury, Colchester, MK Dons (sort of), Boston, York, Chesterfield to name a few didn't fill their grounds and they seemed to have the ambition to move and improve the fan experience. Attendances will increase because of this and then it's up to the management and players to keep them there and increase attendances further.
Over half of your examples for me at least underpin why we should look to enhance BP and try to find a way to increase capacity there with better facilities /commercial opportunities - impressed with stadium MK but oversized , only possible because of a giant retail park /Winklefella , Chesterfield pretty poor for me , Boston ok but tiny and out in a village with a Greggs and burger king as food choices, no bars other than in the ground . York not upto much as far as a football stadium goes and has a weird variation of coloured seats ; Colchester the worst of the lot and a long walk from the town with nothing close by at all .
Rotherham I like and the KC was good I'm sure that's showing it's age now though as I have not been for 15 years ?
I still think there is room for the old traditional stadiums and some clubs are redeveloping grounds in tight areas - Pompey , Fulham ,Exeter ,Wrexham and Stockport all rebuilding to some degree ; it can be done but exactly like a new ground obviously costs a hell of a lot of ££££££ .
Over half of your examples for me at least underpin why we should look to enhance BP and try to find a way to increase capacity there with better facilities /commercial opportunities - impressed with stadium MK but oversized , only possible because of a giant retail park /Winklefella , Chesterfield pretty poor for me , Boston ok but tiny and out in a village with a Greggs and burger king as food choices, no bars other than in the ground . York not upto much as far as a football stadium goes and has a weird variation of coloured seats ; Colchester the worst of the lot and a long walk from the town with nothing close by at all .
Rotherham I like and the KC was good I'm sure that's showing it's age now though as I have not been for 15 years ?
I still think there is room for the old traditional stadiums and some clubs are redeveloping grounds in tight areas - Pompey , Fulham ,Exeter ,Wrexham and Stockport all rebuilding to some degree ; it can be done but exactly like a new ground obviously costs a hell of a lot of ££££££ .
I agree with your descriptions of some of the grounds and not what I would want if we ever went for a new home. That wasn't my point though, just examples of clubs who didn't pack their grounds out (some far from it) but they moved to try and take their club forward. I would assume the maintenance costs of running those grounds is significantly lower than trying to maintain an older ground and keep it up to standards to allow them to operate. Older grounds are romantic and part of the football heritage in this country, that doesn't mean we should keep them.
Blundell Park for me can't be improved drastically to make it viable long term. Surrounded three sides with terraced housing and a road/railway line the other. Any expansion (if that was possible) would cause even more traffic, parking and pedestrian issues in the surrounding area. There have been new grounds muted over a long period of time but none of come to fruition for various reasons. There have been good reasons why we should move and they still apply. As Andrew Pettit said at the forum any new ground would have to incorporate many areas of use aside football to make it financially viable to run. It's not top of the shopping list for the club at the moment but long term we go nowhere staying at BP as a club, attracting players or new fans for that matter.
I agree with your descriptions of some of the grounds and not what I would want if we ever went for a new home. That wasn't my point though, just examples of clubs who didn't pack their grounds out (some far from it) but they moved to try and take their club forward. I would assume the maintenance costs of running those grounds is significantly lower than trying to maintain an older ground and keep it up to standards to allow them to operate. Older grounds are romantic and part of the football heritage in this county, that doesn't mean we should keep them.
Blundell Park for me can't be improved drastically to make it viable long term. Surrounded three sides with terraced housing and a road/railway line the other. Any expansion (if that was possible) would cause even more traffic, parking and pedestrian issues in the surrounding area. There have been new grounds muted over a long period of time but none of come to fruition for various reasons. There have been good reasons why we should move and they still apply. As Andrew Pettit said at the forum any new ground would have to incorporate many areas of use aside football to make it financially viable to run. It's not top of the shopping list for the club at the moment but long term we go nowhere staying at BP as a club, attracting players or new fans for that matter.
But where are we going to get the £40 Mil+ from to build the ground?
But where are we going to get the £40 Mil+ from to build the ground?
Most of the aforementioned clubs managed it by the owners being smart…….
It’s a a good point - we’d need £40m-plus, no doubt, but others have managed.
Blundell Park isn’t good enough now, and it’s only gonna get worse. I suspect it will be the one issue that encourages JS and AP to get the hell out of dodge at some point, and that’s not a criticism of them, it’s just gonna be tough getting the funding.
Blundell Park should have been demolished in the 20th century, and we’re already 23 years into the next one now!
For what it’s worth, and I admit it, I have zero clue what the solution is.
I am not sure if you are just being negative because it is Lincoln or not, but the population has grown by 30k in 20 years in Lincoln and continues to grow, so I think crowds, whilst lower this year have remained stable and may well do so. I don't think it is just because we are not playing that well that crowds have dipped, the economic climate will play a part. Lincoln is also a growing city, that has significant investment and lower crime so is an attractive place currently. I personally think the football club have seen this and tried to grow with it - With some success, and changes to the ground/pitch and training facilities which put us on an even keel with a lot of L1 clubs.
As for investment and going down the same root as Scunthorpe, I think that must be a joke - we will be nothing like them, we might dip to L2 occasionally, and flirt with the championship at times, but we are in safe hands. Investment is in shares, and Clive appears to be careful with who invests in the club - The Jabara family seem to be in for the long haul, so whilst I see some on here wanting us to go pop, I think we will be fine.
Football wise, losing all our forwards to injury has been a freak, with Tyler Walker now ruled out for the season we have had some awful luck, so to be 9th I think we have done well, albeit it is a dull watch scoring a goal a game. However, I much prefer watching Derby away Thursday, and Bolton at home Boxing day than watching some of L2's fixtures. No being salty here towards Grimsby, I think Artell is a decent appointment - Your owners are good too, but if you think you are going to sail past us, without Millions of wise investment I think you are mistaken. I actually wish you good fortune, I like Lincolnshire clubs being in the league and doing well, so long as were doing the best!
Anyway Merry Xmas!!
Not negative at all.
You can cut the numbers anyway you want really. The population of NEL has decreased in the last 10 years yet attendances have increased considerably, that's without any real success. There's no two ways about it, the club are in the same position they were 19 years ago and no amount of promotions from the fifth tier will wash with anyone over the age of 25/30 as 'success'. Anyone over that age grew up with Town more than capable of operating at the third and second tiers. Rightly or wrongly that is their standard and benchmark, as ridiculous as it sounds in the modern game.
Lincoln is clearly a growing city, as evidenced by the fact it's flipping impossible to get to anywhere at anything other than snail pace, but your attendance has only increased on the back of quite considerable success in terms of reaching a level very few of your fan base will have seen, certainly for a sustained period anyway. Potentially I would say Town could get more fans in if both clubs were operating at the same level. The key word is could. Our ground wouldn't allow it and potential is worth jaff all without the ability to convert it into something.
Back to you and your investors though, the question for me is still why? Why on earth would anyone pump money into a club for the sake of it. You don't make money from football and the ramblings of your Sincil Bank friend just scream 'it'll be ok because they said it will'. There has to be a reason they're involved.
Quoted Text
“Again, it was a pure football investment. So many of the investments we looked at were simply were ‘here’s a real estate opportunity around a stadium’, or ‘we’re trying to do a major enhancement around our venue’ and ‘we have a football club too but let’s talk about this real estate investment’.
“But we probably have enough real estate investments in the US. We probably don’t need to go to the UK for a real estate investment.
“We’re going to the UK because that’s where the best football in the world is made.
They're the words of Harvey Jabara, your US bankroller. It's a football investment. So they feel the football club itself has something they can invest it and get a return on. That means they eventually think someone is going to come in and give them a return on their investment. I've seen a quote from Jabara where he says stuff about long-term, not flipping his investment etc. If that's the case then he's not really investing is he, it's throwing money away with the knowledge that he isn't getting anything back on it...which is fine. So why constantly use the term 'investment'.
How much have his family invested in the club and then add a good percentage onto that for a return. Do you think anyone is going to buy his shares for that value? This probably is the negative bit but it just doesn't add up to me. I will be as cautious when 1878 come to getting outside investment in here and ask the question of what is it going to cost us in the long run.
I've not got any issue with football clubs getting investment. I just can't for the life of me see the value of investing in a lower league football team to the tune of considerable millions. If it's costing that amount of money to get you to the top half of League One, what's it going to cost to get to the Championship and then a position of stability (where you're then probably only remotely interesting to other investment groups)?
It's scary. Even the second lowest averages are almost double what you're pulling in. Just on ticket sales alone that's around £2.5mill the likes of Blackburn, Preston, Millwall have over you. Those clubs that are in the middle of the attendance table you can double that amount. Do these guys have £5million upwards a season just to be remotely competitive at this level?
Even then, do you invest in Lincoln with a stadium that has limited potential or a club like Rotherham with a bigger ground, even a basketcase club like Reading with a huge stadium and far more potential? I know where my money would go (if I was daft enough to expect a return on a football club).
Believe me. We'll be in exactly the same position when it comes to 1878 moving on. We're not a good investment. 1878 themselves are probably shocked at how much of a money drain a football club is and we've generated bonus income in the last 24 months or so.
It might be that Jabara and his family genuinely just want to throw money at it to give you guys the best chance of succeeding. I hope that's the case. But if they step away, who plugs the £3million a year sized hole?
You can cut the numbers anyway you want really. The population of NEL has decreased in the last 10 years yet attendances have increased considerably, that's without any real success. There's no two ways about it, the club are in the same position they were 19 years ago and no amount of promotions from the fifth tier will wash with anyone over the age of 25/30 as 'success'. Anyone over that age grew up with Town more than capable of operating at the third and second tiers. Rightly or wrongly that is their standard and benchmark, as ridiculous as it sounds in the modern game.
Lincoln is clearly a growing city, as evidenced by the fact it's flipping impossible to get to anywhere at anything other than snail pace, but your attendance has only increased on the back of quite considerable success in terms of reaching a level very few of your fan base will have seen, certainly for a sustained period anyway. Potentially I would say Town could get more fans in if both clubs were operating at the same level. The key word is could. Our ground wouldn't allow it and potential is worth jaff all without the ability to convert it into something.
Back to you and your investors though, the question for me is still why? Why on earth would anyone pump money into a club for the sake of it. You don't make money from football and the ramblings of your Sincil Bank friend just scream 'it'll be ok because they said it will'. There has to be a reason they're involved.
They're the words of Harvey Jabara, your US bankroller. It's a football investment. So they feel the football club itself has something they can invest it and get a return on. That means they eventually think someone is going to come in and give them a return on their investment. I've seen a quote from Jabara where he says stuff about long-term, not flipping his investment etc. If that's the case then he's not really investing is he, it's throwing money away with the knowledge that he isn't getting anything back on it...which is fine. So why constantly use the term 'investment'.
How much have his family invested in the club and then add a good percentage onto that for a return. Do you think anyone is going to buy his shares for that value? This probably is the negative bit but it just doesn't add up to me. I will be as cautious when 1878 come to getting outside investment in here and ask the question of what is it going to cost us in the long run.
I've not got any issue with football clubs getting investment. I just can't for the life of me see the value of investing in a lower league football team to the tune of considerable millions. If it's costing that amount of money to get you to the top half of League One, what's it going to cost to get to the Championship and then a position of stability (where you're then probably only remotely interesting to other investment groups)?
It's scary. Even the second lowest averages are almost double what you're pulling in. Just on ticket sales alone that's around £2.5mill the likes of Blackburn, Preston, Millwall have over you. Those clubs that are in the middle of the attendance table you can double that amount. Do these guys have £5million upwards a season just to be remotely competitive at this level?
Even then, do you invest in Lincoln with a stadium that has limited potential or a club like Rotherham with a bigger ground, even a basketcase club like Reading with a huge stadium and far more potential? I know where my money would go (if I was daft enough to expect a return on a football club).
Believe me. We'll be in exactly the same position when it comes to 1878 moving on. We're not a good investment. 1878 themselves are probably shocked at how much of a money drain a football club is and we've generated bonus income in the last 24 months or so.
It might be that Jabara and his family genuinely just want to throw money at it to give you guys the best chance of succeeding. I hope that's the case. But if they step away, who plugs the £3million a year sized hole?
Lincoln are chasing the dream - nowt wrong with ambition - but any imps fan who simply washes over their current cash drain situation needs to give their head a wobble. IF they get to The Championship, just bear in mind that Bristol City - substantially bigger club than either Lincoln or ourselves - need pulling out of the sh#t every season by their owner to the tune of around £15-25m - that’s not far off 5-10 times what Lincoln are currently doing. Unless you get to the Prem - which Bristol city still haven’t managed - it ends in tears.
I want us to have the ambition of getting in L1, but I’m under no illusion that we’d have a bottom 6 budget early doors even if we had an average wage of 3-4K per week. It’d be tough going.
In summary - Lincoln are playing with fire, and their fans don’t understand the word “investment “.
I agree with your descriptions of some of the grounds and not what I would want if we ever went for a new home. That wasn't my point though, just examples of clubs who didn't pack their grounds out (some far from it) but they moved to try and take their club forward. I would assume the maintenance costs of running those grounds is significantly lower than trying to maintain an older ground and keep it up to standards to allow them to operate. Older grounds are romantic and part of the football heritage in this county, that doesn't mean we should keep them.
Blundell Park for me can't be improved drastically to make it viable long term. Surrounded three sides with terraced housing and a road/railway line the other. Any expansion (if that was possible) would cause even more traffic, parking and pedestrian issues in the surrounding area. There have been new grounds muted over a long period of time but none of come to fruition for various reasons. There have been good reasons why we should move and they still apply. As Andrew Pettit said at the forum any new ground would have to incorporate many areas of use aside football to make it financially viable to run. It's not top of the shopping list for the club at the moment but long term we go nowhere staying at BP as a club, attracting players or new fans for that matter.
I don't know - the stewarding costs for MK must have been quite heavy there were more than them than fans - getting searched twice to get in seemed a bit ott for me and then not even being able to get a can at half time because they didn't have enough staff on at their 'bar' (i use the term loosely as anyone who has been there will know what I mean ) seemed a bit bizarre - a 30k stadium for a team that only gets 5k home fans on a good day is silly much like Darlington when they did the same.
I do know where you are coming from and I bet there are a good few on here who would agree with you ; I actually do think we would get better crowds if we got it right not the massive % increase that some have but a good 2-3k more regulars and obviously you could offer a massive increase to away teams ; MK got 7k away fans 5 or 6 times last season in league 1 with there crap crowds it's more than home fans - I would not go that far but 1 or 2k more for the second half of this season would have probably been taken up a good few times .
We have done it to death though on here , the reality is there is no help is there and it would have to be self funded or leveraged against a load of debt which would cripple the club even if we were to get an extra 3k a week and better commercial revenue .
The only viable way is probably the 1 in a million chance we go through somehow like Luton and fund a super stadium from that .
I'm not a mind reader but the impression I get is the training ground would be key to 'moving through the gears' as Stockwood put it - less capital outlay with potential commercial opportunities there , better facilities = better players and to make money through selling young players/sell ons which we seem to have started the process of anyway (hopefully).
I've been reliably informed that the £3M is mainly due to the redevelopment of the Stacey West End at SB. I don't think Lincoln have to worry too much, they're one of the better ran clubs in L1 and L2 from what I gather. A bottom third of the division wage budget last according to the aforementioned source. There are some eye watering amounts of money being chucked around at that level, I don't think Lincoln are anywhere near the list of main offenders.
But where are we going to get the £40 Mil+ from to build the ground?
£40m is a figure that was mentioned by JS but I'm not sure where he plucked that from. It cost £20m to build the New York Stadium in Rotherham. 10 years ago I admit but prices haven't doubled in the construction world I do know as I work in it.
£40m is a figure that was mentioned by JS but I'm not sure where he plucked that from. It cost £20m to build the New York Stadium in Rotherham. 10 years ago I admit but prices haven't doubled in the construction world I do know as I work in it.
True but the development hit issues which increased the costs quite a bit. Also land costs in York will be higher than here. I'm not saying a stadium built 10 years ago at £20m will be the same now. I just question £40m until a legitimate study has been done on a design and area where it would be located.
It is and the football ground is only a part of it so it's not a fair comparison. It has a cinema, leisure centre and other buildings on the site so this added to the total cost.
Other clubs managed it in different financial times.
We can't currently afford a new ground. Building costs have shot up and anchor tenants have faded away.
Not much point speculating on what we need/want, when it isn't going to happen for the foreseeable.
I'm with you on this one. We have debated it on here many times, in the past, and when JS & AP say it's not going to happen then any further discussion is pointless.
You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
Most of the aforementioned clubs managed it by the owners being smart…….
It’s a a good point - we’d need £40m-plus, no doubt, but others have managed.
Blundell Park isn’t good enough now, and it’s only gonna get worse. I suspect it will be the one issue that encourages JS and AP to get the hell out of dodge at some point, and that’s not a criticism of them, it’s just gonna be tough getting the funding. Blundell Park should have been demolished in the 20th century, and we’re already 23 years into the next one now!
For what it’s worth, and I admit it, I have zero clue what the solution is.
Somebody needed to say it, well done sir. To replace the Main & Osmond Stands won’t come cheap, if The Imps renovation of the Stacey West is anything to go by.
It’s interesting reading this thread with all the prophets of doom speculating on our impending demise. It’s 40 (FORTY) years since Town matched attendances at old Sinny Bank. 9th in League 1 is realistically the best we can hope for in terms of club size compared to our rivals but aspirations are higher. This has been achieved without our 1st choice strikeforce (Walker, House, Hackett) and best defender (Montsma) …. imagine where we might be if they’d been fit?
Despite personally wanting the Cowley’s back and the feel good factor they exude within the City, I trust Mr Nates/Jibaras have chosen wisely in Michael Skubala and will back him in the forthcoming windows.
25k at Pride Park with all away tickets sold on the Thursday night before Christmas is far more preferable place compared to a trip to Rodney Parade, don’t you think?
Somebody needed to say it, well done sir. To replace the Main & Osmond Stands won’t come cheap, if The Imps renovation of the Stacey West is anything to go by.
It’s interesting reading this thread with all the prophets of doom speculating on our impending demise. It’s 40 (FORTY) years since Town matched attendances at old Sinny Bank. 9th in League 1 is realistically the best we can hope for in terms of club size compared to our rivals but aspirations are higher. This has been achieved without our 1st choice strikeforce (Walker, House, Hackett) and best defender (Montsma) …. imagine where we might be if they’d been fit?
Despite personally wanting the Cowley’s back and the feel good factor they exude within the City, I trust Mr Nates/Jibaras have chosen wisely in Michael Skubala and will back him in the forthcoming windows.
25k at Pride Park with all away tickets sold on the Thursday night before Christmas is far more preferable place compared to a trip to Rodney Parade, don’t you think?
Look, a Born again gimp. I guess Citeh aren’t top xat the moment ????
The wife was going away for a girly weekend. I jokingly remarked 'I don't know whether to spend it watching porn or watching football' 'you may as well spend it watching porn' she replied That's understanding darling what makes you say that? I asked
She said 'Well you already know how to play football'
Somebody needed to say it, well done sir. To replace the Main & Osmond Stands won’t come cheap, if The Imps renovation of the Stacey West is anything to go by.
It’s interesting reading this thread with all the prophets of doom speculating on our impending demise. It’s 40 (FORTY) years since Town matched attendances at old Sinny Bank. 9th in League 1 is realistically the best we can hope for in terms of club size compared to our rivals but aspirations are higher. This has been achieved without our 1st choice strikeforce (Walker, House, Hackett) and best defender (Montsma) …. imagine where we might be if they’d been fit?
Despite personally wanting the Cowley’s back and the feel good factor they exude within the City, I trust Mr Nates/Jibaras have chosen wisely in Michael Skubala and will back him in the forthcoming windows.
25k at Pride Park with all away tickets sold on the Thursday night before Christmas is far more preferable place compared to a trip to Rodney Parade, don’t you think?
Come back when you've beat them 1-3 in the Championship at Pride Park. SB like BP has one good stand .After that you have one mediocre and two abysma stands so you have plenty to do still
Trouble is mickeylyons ALL stands have been redeveloped whereas your dump hasnt ! I also believe you dont have 16/17 full boxes like we do .Plus i remember reading on here the distain at a fan zone where we welcome EVERYONE ( I dont believe yours does) and has earned us hundreds of thousands of £££££.We also a multi million ,yep hard to believe i agree,catering contract!
Your own ridiculous forum shows 'distain' towards anyone who doesn't toe the line, a reminder that your attitude and language as a guest here on the Fishy would have you banned by the cry baby admins on there, as has alway been the case, but some general footy talk is a little too much to ask for from post-Cowley glory seekers and wavering Citeh fans it would seem.
Our fanzone does welcome all , it's really good tbf plenty of away fans in most games (when they travel) and had a pint with one or two .
I don't get when people call these old traditional grounds dumps , I prefer them BP isn't even that bad in comparison to some of those places in the NL- I actually liked those aswell ; maybe that's too far in your rear view mirror to remember , not sure , not my place . I don't mind Sincil Nou Camp but it's no way near this footballing colosseum that some of your regulars seem to think .
Trouble is mickeylyons ALL stands have been redeveloped whereas your dump hasnt ! I also believe you dont have 16/17 full boxes like we do .Plus i remember reading on here the distain at a fan zone where we welcome EVERYONE ( I dont believe yours does) and has earned us hundreds of thousands of £££££.We also a multi million ,yep hard to believe i agree,catering contract!
And yet you’re still haemorrhaging money each season to stand still in L1 with decreasing attendances. You can go on about it as much as you like but it’s not as rosey at the Wembley of the North as you like to make out.
Trouble is mickeylyons ALL stands have been redeveloped whereas your dump hasnt ! I also believe you dont have 16/17 full boxes like we do .Plus i remember reading on here the distain at a fan zone where we welcome EVERYONE ( I dont believe yours does) and has earned us hundreds of thousands of £££££.We also a multi million ,yep hard to believe i agree,catering contract!
We've got the best scotch eggs in the EFL. Glad you're making millions it means you won't owe so much when it all goes wrong.Mind you surely you should be relocating to a 50k capacity stadium sometime soon so you're huge fanbase can all get a seat?
Trouble is mickeylyons ALL stands have been redeveloped whereas your dump hasnt ! I also believe you dont have 16/17 full boxes like we do .Plus i remember reading on here the distain at a fan zone where we welcome EVERYONE ( I dont believe yours does) and has earned us hundreds of thousands of £££££.We also a multi million ,yep hard to believe i agree,catering contract!
David Frazer why on earth are you gaslighting The Fishy with "my willy is bigger than your willy " posts? Is your Gimp forum not interesting enough?
£40m is a figure that was mentioned by JS but I'm not sure where he plucked that from. It cost £20m to build the New York Stadium in Rotherham. 10 years ago I admit but prices haven't doubled in the construction world I do know as I work in it.
Boston Utd Jakeman Stadium opened 2021 5061 capacity (2155 seated) £12 mill and still not finished, if that helps.
It’s interesting reading this thread with all the prophets of doom speculating on our impending demise. It’s 40 (FORTY) years since Town matched attendances at old Sinny Bank. 9th in League 1 is realistically the best we can hope for in terms of club size compared to our rivals but aspirations are higher.
I don’t usually respond to the manhood waving posts but here goes. In those 40 years, season for season, Lincoln have only had a better attendance than Town in 7 of those seasons. It’s easy to cherry pick stats to fit a narrative isn’t it?
However, what I think you and David Fraser have both missed in this thread is the original point of the post and that is that if a well run (that’s one thing most Town fans agree on regarding Lincoln is that you are, from the outside, well run) you still have to pump in £3m to challenge and that is a word of warning to all the Town fans begging for more. There was nothing pointed in the original Post (as I read it) against Lincoln, to the contrary, but just highlighting that it costs a lot to break even at L1 level and probably more than we anticipated.
I don’t usually respond to the manhood waving posts but here goes. In those 40 years, season for season, Lincoln have only had a better attendance than Town in 7 of those seasons. It’s easy to cherry pick stats to fit a narrative isn’t it?
However, what I think you and David Fraser have both missed in this thread is the original point of the post and that is that if a well run (that’s one thing most Town fans agree on regarding Lincoln is that you are, from the outside, well run) you still have to pump in £3m to challenge and that is a word of warning to all the Town fans begging for more. There was nothing pointed in the original Post (as I read it) against Lincoln, to the contrary, but just highlighting that it costs a lot to break even at L1 level and probably more than we anticipated.
Well said. There is data to suit for every scenario but it is obvious to all that the Mariners are Lincolnshire's premier club. Not at the moment I grant you with Lincoln being one whole division above us, but it is true nonetheless. If Lincoln reach the Championship and then the top flight and reach FA Cup semi finals and so on then fair enough we would have to concede the point, but at the moment they are miles off just as Scunny were when they had their Championship purple patch.
In terms of ambition the question is whether smaller clubs such as Lincoln and Town can ever hope to compete in the championship without massive cash injections. Could either club ever exist there on a sustainable basis?
Between 1980 and 2003 Town played in the second tier for 17 seasons and did so without going tens of millions in debt. But times have changed. Clubs up there spend ridiculous amounts on players wages these days. Mel Machin sank £200 million into Derby in an attempt to get them promoted and ended up almost destroying the club.
I may be overly pessimistic, but I find it hard to believe that we could ever survive long in that division now. Sure, we might be able to get promoted into it, like Scunny did twice, and which Lincoln might well do. But staying there is a mightily tall order for clubs of our size without huge and regular cash injections.
Well said. There is data for every scenario but it is obvious to all that the Mariners are Lincolnshire's premier club. Not at the moment I grant you with Lincoln being one whole division above us, but it is true nonetheless. If Lincoln reach the Championship and then the top flight and reach FA Cup semi finals and so on then fair enough we would have to concede the point, but at the moment they are miles off just as Scunny were when they had their Championship purple patch.
Currently Lincoln are paying in £60k per match (£3 mill ÷ 50 games) Somebody ought to tell them, you just can't buy class.
I don’t usually respond to the manhood waving posts but here goes. In those 40 years, season for season, Lincoln have only had a better attendance than Town in 7 of those seasons. It’s easy to cherry pick stats to fit a narrative isn’t it?
However, what I think you and David Fraser have both missed in this thread is the original point of the post and that is that if a well run (that’s one thing most Town fans agree on regarding Lincoln is that you are, from the outside, well run) you still have to pump in £3m to challenge and that is a word of warning to all the Town fans begging for more. There was nothing pointed in the original Post (as I read it) against Lincoln, to the contrary, but just highlighting that it costs a lot to break even at L1 level and probably more than we anticipated.
No there was no highlighting any of the above like you say .
It was more an example of how deep pockets you need to compete even at league 1 level and how I can see why Stockwood got irked from some critics (yes I know they chose to take the club on ) after ponying up whatever it was to buy the club ; which was almost worth less than nothing + the further outlay on BP & the playing squad only to be asked 'where did the cup money go?' - when on reality it's probably about 1/5th of what they have put in and has just taken the edge off slightly .
I actually do think Lincoln are well run and have a decent chairman and CEO but the idea that they are light years ahead of us on and off the pitch is laughable they are 1 league up with some yanks having to make up a 3 million pound shortfall - unless they have a decent season this or next it will be 3 million down the drain - their model hasn't worked (yet) regarding player trading , on the pitch they are doing okay but if you look at league 1 there are effectively 3 tiers ; they are 9th -- the issue I would have if they don't start making gains on players soon you may well be throwing away 3 million quid down the drain to finish 6 or 7 places higher and not be down the bottom third . It would be interesting to know what their long term goal is .
I don't think it's a Reading , Scunny , Wigan or Southend scenario by any means but still just shows how crazy the game is even in division 3 and 4 .
Well said. There is data to suit for every scenario but it is obvious to all that the Mariners are Lincolnshire's premier club.
Just the 10,064 here today, 1995 was the last time you achieved an attendance of this size, so your absolute delusion at being the Premier Club in the Shire is off the scale sir.
Just the 10,064 here today, 1995 was the last time you achieved an attendance of this size, so your absolute delusion at being the Premier Club in the Shire is off the scale sir.
3000 away fans does have the tendency to do that, though.
Not to forget, of course, that we had to go all-seater decades ago due to our League status at the time. We'd have managed a good few attendances in excess of 10K, had we some standing capacity available in the years since then.
Just the 10,064 here today, 1995 was the last time you achieved an attendance of this size, so your absolute delusion at being the Premier Club in the Shire is off the scale sir.
Congrats lads. I’m sure they’ll all be back for the next home game after you managed less than 30% possession in a home game and mustered two shots all game.
Going onto an opposition fans forum literally minutes after the final whistle to brag about 10,000 fans in the ground. Completely ignoring the fact that you suffered a defeat against a side occupying one of the play-off places you cherish, which personally I would have thought would be more of a priority for you. Each to their own though.
intercourse me, that's almost as embarrassing as your tantrum at your 2011 relegation whilst holding your Franny Lee toilet roll. Almost.
Well said. There is data to suit for every scenario but it is obvious to all that the Mariners are Lincolnshire's premier club. Not at the moment I grant you with Lincoln being one whole division above us, but it is true nonetheless. If Lincoln reach the Championship and then the top flight and reach FA Cup semi finals and so on then fair enough we would have to concede the point, but at the moment they are miles off just as Scunny were when they had their Championship purple patch.
I don't think it's obvious. With the amount Lincoln have had pumped in on facilities and players, plus we've not been in L1 in what, 15 years? Historically, you are right, but history means very little compared to the last 20 years.
We are not a big club by any modern metric. Neither are Lincoln but on level, money and attendance they have been beating us for several years now.
I don't think it's obvious. With the amount Lincoln have had pumped in on facilities and players, plus we've not been in L1 in what, 15 years? Historically, you are right, but history means very little compared to the last 20 years.
We are not a big club by any modern metric. Neither are Lincoln but on level, money and attendance they have been beating us for several years now.
History means jaff all, we all know that. We laugh at much bigger clubs who have this chip on their shoulder regards their history so it would be daft to pull out the old history card in this argument.
But the last six seasons are a mere drop in the ocean as to regards how much we proved to be the better side in Lincolnshire. Alas, that's very much in the same way that we've historically proved to be better than the likes of an awful lot of clubs who now dwarf us...
Congrats lads. I’m sure they’ll all be back for the next home game after you managed less than 30% possession in a home game and mustered two shots all game.
They actually bought 1800 fans, so 8200 home fans which considering how poor we are playing is actually, in my opinion quite good - Did you sell out your allocation at Mansfield?
We have our whole forward line injured which means we have an academy lad playing up front who is way out his depth.
Bolton were far superior, but their wage budget is 3 times ours so sort of understandable, but we were so weak and played for a point, which did not work. I am sure we will address this in January, or bring back Draper from Walsall.
Interesting that a lot of your fanbase still sees Grimsby as bigger club than Lincoln - I grew up in the 70's so would have probably agreed with this opinion then, however now, I wouldn't and I would say Lincoln are a bigger club, with a much bigger draw to players and investors - Not having a dig, just interested in perspectives on here. History does count for little doesn't it?
Lincoln as a club and location is leaps and bounds above Grimsby/Cleethorpes. The amount of money that's been pumped into Lincoln as a city is astronomical in comparison to Grimsby or Cleethorpes. I spend a fair bit of time in Lincoln and it's a much more relaxed, vibrant and in some areas, affluent city.
Grimsby as a town and club has had plenty of opportunities to have sorted itself out. The ground is an absolute state and has been my whole life and the town is quite frankly, copulated. It's a very unattractive prospect to have much to do with Grimsby but such is life.
They actually bought 1800 fans, so 8200 home fans which considering how poor we are playing is actually, in my opinion quite good - Did you sell out your allocation at Mansfield?
We have our whole forward line injured which means we have an academy lad playing up front who is way out his depth.
Bolton were far superior, but their wage budget is 3 times ours so sort of understandable, but we were so weak and played for a point, which did not work. I am sure we will address this in January, or bring back Draper from Walsall.
Interesting that a lot of your fanbase still sees Grimsby as bigger club than Lincoln - I grew up in the 70's so would have probably agreed with this opinion then, however now, I wouldn't and I would say Lincoln are a bigger club, with a much bigger draw to players and investors - Not having a dig, just interested in perspectives on here. History does count for little doesn't it?
The truth is neither are particularly bigger or smaller than the other both 'in between' clubs who have potential of decent crowds but will struggle to ever compete in the top 2 divisions with the way the game has changed , sad but true .
History does give you context as without your cup run + The Cowleys the city being galvanised you would still be in the NL getting 3k fans on a good day .
I had hoped our takeover and cup run would galvanise us and provide momentum in a similiar way it did you , but it seems it has not thus far .
Lincoln are a more attractive proposition atm for investors proof is in the pudding -we don't seem to be able to find any of the right sort who are willing to throw some of their relative small change in .
I don't really care who are the bigger club , I just want us to turn up at Mansfield , run around and give it a go tbh that's whats irking me atm .
Going onto an opposition fans forum literally minutes after the final whistle to brag about 10,000 fans in the ground. Completely ignoring the fact that you suffered a defeat against a side occupying one of the play-off places you cherish, which personally I would have thought would be more of a priority for you. Each to their own though.
intercourse me, that's almost as embarrassing as your tantrum at your 2011 relegation whilst holding your Franny Lee toilet roll. Almost.
Tantrum you say? 🤔 Blimey I’m flattered you can even remember what I said after our spineless surrender against Aldershot over a decade ago, whereas I can barely recall what I ate for dinner last night? 🤷♂️
Plenty of effort shown in keeping a top Tier 3 side in Bolton at bay. As for cherishing an improbable play-off spot, it’s better to be looking up, than over your shoulder praying Forest Green don’t win their games in hand 😉
Anyway, enough about your second team, time to turn your reversible shirt inside out to sky blue and settle down with a beer and the TV, you terrible, terrible excuse of a football fan.
Any Town fan who isn’t a little bit jealous of Lincoln at present is kidding themselves. They are where we want to be, moreover where we were till Fenty copulated us up.
Good luck to them, hope we’re waving back at them asap.
I’d say similar sized clubs, Town have a more loyal hard core but Lincoln is a wealthier growing city and more “new” fans. The main differentiator, as has been noted on this thread, is Sincil is a reasonable all seater ground for League 1, whereas BP was totally unsuited to all seater conversion and is a bit of a mill-stone now.
I’d say similar sized clubs, Town have a more loyal hard core but Lincoln is a wealthier growing city and more “new” fans. The main differentiator, as has been noted on this thread, is Sincil is a reasonable all seater ground for League 1, whereas BP was totally unsuited to all seater conversion and is a bit of a mill-stone now.
Has Sincil Bank substantially changed? I always thought of it as been much worse than BP with that silly stand opposite to the big stand and the tiny stands behind the goals.
They actually bought 1800 fans, so 8200 home fans which considering how poor we are playing is actually, in my opinion quite good - Did you sell out your allocation at Mansfield?
We have our whole forward line injured which means we have an academy lad playing up front who is way out his depth.
Bolton were far superior, but their wage budget is 3 times ours so sort of understandable, but we were so weak and played for a point, which did not work. I am sure we will address this in January, or bring back Draper from Walsall.
Interesting that a lot of your fanbase still sees Grimsby as bigger club than Lincoln - I grew up in the 70's so would have probably agreed with this opinion then, however now, I wouldn't and I would say Lincoln are a bigger club, with a much bigger draw to players and investors - Not having a dig, just interested in perspectives on here. History does count for little doesn't it?
I don't think we're a bigger club than Lincoln anymore and any sane Town fan who's living in the 21st century (in which we've been shite almost the whole time) doesn't either. And right now Lincoln are most definitely a better draw for players than we are. But I don't think Lincoln are a bigger club than us. You had a very good attendance yesterday (bolstered by a full away end which we've not even got close to this season) but if you take away the average number of away fans you get at home games for both clubs then there's about 1200-1300 difference on average which isn't huge. In the context of you being at the top of your most successful period in your history playing teams like Derby and Bolton and us being in yet another L2 relegation battle after 22 years of being shite, it really isn't very much. Equally, despite most games being closer and being more attractive away days you are averaging fewer away fans to away games this season than we did last season in L2 (I can't find our average this season, sorry). Plus, your attendances are falling, down 1000 on average since you were last in L2 despite a big increase in the number of away fans at each game.
Do I think we'd be averaging the same if we were competing in the top half of L1? Absolutely. Even this season with only 5 wins and some miserable performances in the main it's still quite hard to get tickets of more than 2 together unless you want impeded views or to sit in the away stand. The poster that said we're jealous of Lincoln is absolutely right, I'd love to be 9th in L1 after four seasons at that level with millions pumped in each season by "investors". I'd love to have the Co-op stand or something similar at Blundell Park and a ground that is definitely going to be significantly easier to redevelop if necessary (probably not necessary with your 2500 empty home seats on average). But it's laughable how some of your fans seem to think you're massive now and lording it over us. Ultimately we all know that at the first whiff of a bad season, your attendances will drop sharply and eventually the investors will stop pumping money in for no return.
And don't get me started on NorfolkImp. A meltdown befitting a toddler when you were shite saying he's never going again, not seen on here for years until you started getting some success and these days is posting on our forum approximately 5 minutes after full time to boast about an attendance after a game in which you were comprehensively outplayed. Probably following Lincoln a bit more this season as City's title challenge seems to have stalled. Literally one of the saddest bell-ends I've ever come across online or in real life and would be worthy of pity if he wasn't such a tw@t.
Has Sincil Bank substantially changed? I always thought of it as been much worse than BP with that silly stand opposite to the big stand and the tiny stands behind the goals.
Capacity 2k higher, no restricted views. Scope for expansion.
Its only like Hull. Its not that long ago, that we wouldn't have paid any attention to them from our lofty position.
Scunthorpe who have monumentally copulated up have still had much higher highs than we have in the last 15 years.
Lincoln have surpassed us also
Hull too (although inevitable I suppose given how resource centric football has become)
GTFC sort of reminds me a little of Britain since the Great War - its been managed terminal decline for decades, with interludes of improvement and/or success
Fingers crossed our luck finally changes and we finally dust ourselves off and can start pushing on.
Capacity 2k higher, no restricted views. Scope for expansion.
Marginally better then which is expected I suppose given they have had a good few years. Its not a huge gulf though, is it?
I take the view that all our best years are ahead of us, including stadium improvements to look forward to at some stage. Nothing stays the same forever.
Marginally better then which is expected I suppose given they have had a good few years. Its not a huge gulf though, is it?
I take the view that all our best years are ahead of us, including stadium improvements to look forward to at some stage. Nothing stays the same forever.
I think the ground improvements are being slightly under estimated.
500k on the pitch which is now very good, New digital advertising around the entire pitch, new changing rooms, Legends lounge, all executive boxes refurbished and a 2.6 million new Stacey west stand/complex, 600k on the irrigation system for the whole ground, which will eventually allow the stand opposite the co-op stand to be replaced - So the ground has undergone quite a lot if changes.
Add to that a new training ground, and a new 4G pitch outside the ground then things are definitely looking up - Just a shame on the pitch is a real struggle at the moment.
I'm jealous of the fact that Lincoln have had a vision, success and investment for the last 7 years. 5 years more than we have. I'm jealous of the fact that they took full advantage of their success in the Conference and cup run, used the attention to gain investment and went from strength to strength. Whereas we, a year ahead of them, did intercourse all other than buy an extra porta-cabin and replaced the core of our promotion winning side with rejects from relegated York City.
But then I'm also jealous of the likes of Rotherham in the Championship who were a far smaller fish than Town as I was growing up. Even in League One the likes of Peterborough, Oxford, flipping Stevenage for gods sake, Orient, Cambridge, Northampton, Shrewsbury, Vale, Wycombe, Burton, Exeter, Cheltenham, Fleetwood and Carlisle are all clubs that historically we lorded it over.
Up as far as the Prem, Man City were a bit of an anomoly at our level and Newcastle were always a proper sleeping giant. But seeing Brighton, Bournemouth, Fulham, Brentford and Burnley at that level when it only feels like I blinked since we were comfortably better than them brings home the reality of how we've fallen behind.
Looking at the League Two table there's not many in there in what I class as the same position as us. excrement for the majority of modern history but spin it back a few decades and we were far, far better. Tranmere, Swindon, Notts County....Stockport and Donny both had dabbles in the second tier. Of course AFC Wimbledon but their journey is completely different.
What went wrong? In the 1990's we could and should have kicked on big time. I've long said that Buckley team around 1993 was a player away from reaching the Premier League. Dave Beasant's loan signing showed us what a marquee signing would have done for us and I firmly believe if we somehow managed to hold onto him we go up that year, the rest of the side was just perfect. The backline was solid with a great blend of youth and experience. The midfield was as good as it ever was, the likes of Child and Gilbert were at their peak, firepower wasn't a problem either with Super Clive and Groves banging them in, maybe needed someone else to help out.
2 or 3 years later under Laws I think we were close again. End of November we're a point off the top spot before it spectacularly went to excrement, even before Ivanogate. But the bulk of that season was without Mendonca. All if's and but's but had he not spent the majority of the season out, I think that was our best chance of getting into the top flight.
98/99 was our best recent finish but I never felt we were quite good enough. Our football was figured out by a lot of sides and were far too reliant on Groves' goals.
It might only have been a Swindon, Barnsley or Bradford spell in the top flight but I can't ever imagine us getting close to that again, which is a really sad reflection on the modern game. Looking again at our league table I can't see anyone getting a sniff, not even Wrexham or Stockport. The amount of investment needed to even survive in the Championship is immense, at the top end of it...nah.
In League One you've got Derby pulling 25,000 for home games, Bolton and Portsmouth high teens and then there's a big drop off to Charlton, Reading et al. The Championship has some monster outfits in Leeds, Sunderland....14 sides averaging more than 20,000 at home games but history tells us that's not enough. Without significant money pumped in and with even more debt added to their balance sheets, it won't be enough.
If I'm honest I don't think I would want us to be a Bournemouth with that success basically bankrolled. Even Brighton, for all the praise they get have done it all with a huge investment from a benefactor. It's not likely we'll ever know what it feels like but I do wonder if it feels a bit tainted.
Just the 10,064 here today, 1995 was the last time you achieved an attendance of this size, so your absolute delusion at being the Premier Club in the Shire is off the scale sir.
Just the 8661 there tonight with only 1000 tickets given to the away team which were nearly all sold meaning there were 1600 more empty seats in the home end than three days ago. And it was kids in for a quid too. Flakiest support in the FL and dropping like a stone in the league.
Just the 8661 there tonight with only 1000 tickets given to the away team which were nearly all sold meaning there were 1600 more empty seats in the home end than three days ago. And it was kids in for a quid too. Flakiest support in the FL and dropping like a stone in the league.
Norfolk Imp demanding a return from the Cowleys on Vital, all makes for a very enjoyable trip down the pub tomorrow seeing all the miserable faces 😀😀
I'm jealous of the fact that Lincoln have had a vision, success and investment for the last 7 years. 5 years more than we have. I'm jealous of the fact that they took full advantage of their success in the Conference and cup run, used the attention to gain investment and went from strength to strength. Whereas we, a year ahead of them, did intercourse all other than buy an extra porta-cabin and replaced the core of our promotion winning side with rejects from relegated York City.
But then I'm also jealous of the likes of Rotherham in the Championship who were a far smaller fish than Town as I was growing up. Even in League One the likes of Peterborough, Oxford, flipping Stevenage for gods sake, Orient, Cambridge, Northampton, Shrewsbury, Vale, Wycombe, Burton, Exeter, Cheltenham, Fleetwood and Carlisle are all clubs that historically we lorded it over.
Up as far as the Prem, Man City were a bit of an anomoly at our level and Newcastle were always a proper sleeping giant. But seeing Brighton, Bournemouth, Fulham, Brentford and Burnley at that level when it only feels like I blinked since we were comfortably better than them brings home the reality of how we've fallen behind.
Looking at the League Two table there's not many in there in what I class as the same position as us. excrement for the majority of modern history but spin it back a few decades and we were far, far better. Tranmere, Swindon, Notts County....Stockport and Donny both had dabbles in the second tier. Of course AFC Wimbledon but their journey is completely different.
What went wrong? In the 1990's we could and should have kicked on big time. I've long said that Buckley team around 1993 was a player away from reaching the Premier League. Dave Beasant's loan signing showed us what a marquee signing would have done for us and I firmly believe if we somehow managed to hold onto him we go up that year, the rest of the side was just perfect. The backline was solid with a great blend of youth and experience. The midfield was as good as it ever was, the likes of Child and Gilbert were at their peak, firepower wasn't a problem either with Super Clive and Groves banging them in, maybe needed someone else to help out.
2 or 3 years later under Laws I think we were close again. End of November we're a point off the top spot before it spectacularly went to excrement, even before Ivanogate. But the bulk of that season was without Mendonca. All if's and but's but had he not spent the majority of the season out, I think that was our best chance of getting into the top flight.
98/99 was our best recent finish but I never felt we were quite good enough. Our football was figured out by a lot of sides and were far too reliant on Groves' goals.
It might only have been a Swindon, Barnsley or Bradford spell in the top flight but I can't ever imagine us getting close to that again, which is a really sad reflection on the modern game. Looking again at our league table I can't see anyone getting a sniff, not even Wrexham or Stockport. The amount of investment needed to even survive in the Championship is immense, at the top end of it...nah.
In League One you've got Derby pulling 25,000 for home games, Bolton and Portsmouth high teens and then there's a big drop off to Charlton, Reading et al. The Championship has some monster outfits in Leeds, Sunderland....14 sides averaging more than 20,000 at home games but history tells us that's not enough. Without significant money pumped in and with even more debt added to their balance sheets, it won't be enough.
If I'm honest I don't think I would want us to be a Bournemouth with that success basically bankrolled. Even Brighton, for all the praise they get have done it all with a huge investment from a benefactor. It's not likely we'll ever know what it feels like but I do wonder if it feels a bit tainted.
TBH you could go back to 81 when we should have kicked on more - a fantastic team of homegrown players but with the chance of further investment wasted. The Findus was a cheapskate replacement for the Barratt and wasn’t there an issue about the Board refusing to issue more share capital back then? In the 90s we waited right to the last minute to work out a plan for all seater and again it was the cheapest possible solution. This and then the Fenty years is why so many clubs have overtaken us.
And don't get me started on NorfolkImp. A meltdown befitting a toddler when you were shite saying he's never going again, not seen on here for years until you started getting some success and these days is posting on our forum approximately 5 minutes after full time to boast about an attendance after a game in which you were comprehensively outplayed. Probably following Lincoln a bit more this season as City's title challenge seems to have stalled. Literally one of the saddest bell-ends I've ever come across online or in real life and would be worthy of pity if he wasn't such a tw@t.
Comedy Gold …. I haven’t laughed as much since I saw your result at full-time. I was so tempted to come on 5 minutes later, but didn’t want to appear cruel.
Comedy Gold …. I haven’t laughed as much since I saw your result at full-time. I was so tempted to come on 5 minutes later, but didn’t want to appear cruel.
You finished w@nking for the night then?
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
Comedy Gold …. I haven’t laughed as much since I saw your result at full-time. I was so tempted to come on 5 minutes later, but didn’t want to appear cruel.
Here he is, the world's saddest man ladies and gentlemen. Imagine having such an empty and pathetic life that you've posted almost 3000 times on a rival team's forum.
Here he is, the world's saddest man ladies and gentlemen. Imagine having such an empty and pathetic life that you've posted almost 3000 times on a rival team's forum.
Here he is, the world's saddest man ladies and gentlemen. Imagine having such an empty and pathetic life that you've posted almost 3000 times on a rival team's forum.
Empty and pathetic life? Errr I’ve actually just woken to a beautiful sunrise from my terrace here in Tenerife as I do every year over the festive period, whereas you’re probably peering through the rain overlooking the Cleethorpes mudflats?
I didn’t start this thread btw, but seeing as it’s ‘not your big rivals who nobody cares about’ (East Coast Scouser syndrome) I have every right to comment on it without lowering the tone and getting personal … something you wouldn’t dare do in real life.
You’ve ‘just woken to a beautiful sunrise in Tenerife’ and instead of enjoying it you go straight to the forum of a club you have no affiliation with and have a go. That’s just weird. As the man said, you are one sad b@stard!
Empty and pathetic life? Errr I’ve actually just woken to a beautiful sunrise from my terrace here in Tenerife as I do every year over the festive period, whereas you’re probably peering through the rain overlooking the Cleethorpes mudflats?
I didn’t start this thread btw, but seeing as it’s ‘not your big rivals who nobody cares about’ (East Coast Scouser syndrome) I have every right to comment on it without lowering the tone and getting personal … something you wouldn’t dare do in real life.
Just woken up and immediately on to a rival team's forum. A team yours hasn't played against for five years and supposedly are so grand we're no longer your rivals. A sad, sad life.
Empty and pathetic life? Errr I’ve actually just woken to a beautiful sunrise from my terrace here in Tenerife as I do every year over the festive period, whereas you’re probably peering through the rain overlooking the Cleethorpes mudflats?
I didn’t start this thread btw, but seeing as it’s ‘not your big rivals who nobody cares about’ (East Coast Scouser syndrome) I have every right to comment on it without lowering the tone and getting personal … something you wouldn’t dare do in real life.
Just the 8661 there tonight with only 1000 tickets given to the away team which were nearly all sold meaning there were 1600 more empty seats in the home end than three days ago. And it was kids in for a quid too. Flakiest support in the FL and dropping like a stone in the league.
I still think the crowds are good personally, this with an absolutely awful watch with the fact we have so many missing especially in attacking areas. Against Blackpool yesterday we had nine 1st team players missing - January will be crucial for us to move into a safer position - I don't think we will be in any trouble though if I am being honest - I would say we need 18 points from a possible 60. Blackpool, Derby and Bolton were tough fixtures too over Xmas, all huge clubs.
As for the crowds, we took 1900 to Derby, didn't you take 1200 to Mansfield, similar distances in the same week? The football on offer will definitely have a bearing on fans, but the suggestion we have the flakiest fans in the EFL is wrong in my opinion - I would suggest you stop living in the past as for the last 10 years there is little between us in terms of crowds and success.
As for dropping like a stone, Glass houses and all that..
I still think the crowds are good personally, this with an absolutely awful watch with the fact we have so many missing especially in attacking areas. Against Blackpool yesterday we had nine 1st team players missing - January will be crucial for us to move into a safer position - I don't think we will be in any trouble though if I am being honest - I would say we need 18 points from a possible 60. Blackpool, Derby and Bolton were tough fixtures too over Xmas, all huge clubs.
As for the crowds, we took 1900 to Derby, didn't you take 1200 to Mansfield, similar distances in the same week? The football on offer will definitely have a bearing on fans, but the suggestion we have the flakiest fans in the EFL is wrong in my opinion - I would suggest you stop living in the past as for the last 10 years there is little between us in terms of crowds and success.
As for dropping like a stone, Glass houses and all that..
Empty and pathetic life? Errr I’ve actually just woken to a beautiful sunrise from my terrace here in Tenerife as I do every year over the festive period, whereas you’re probably peering through the rain overlooking the Cleethorpes mudflats?
I didn’t start this thread btw, but seeing as it’s ‘not your big rivals who nobody cares about’ (East Coast Scouser syndrome) I have every right to comment on it without lowering the tone and getting personal … something you wouldn’t dare do in real life.
So the NorfolkGimp spends money to go to Tenerife (Temp @ Midday 20 DegC) whilst Grimsby is 8 DegC and wet. Well good for him, except, he has no mates has he. So he has to log on and Gaslight others as , well let's face it, what point gimps forum where they invent attendance figures all day long. What a saddo. I mean, what Grimberian would go to Tenerife and waste his time there logging onto gImps or Scunny sites? What a Saddo.
I still think the crowds are good personally, this with an absolutely awful watch with the fact we have so many missing especially in attacking areas. Against Blackpool yesterday we had nine 1st team players missing - January will be crucial for us to move into a safer position - I don't think we will be in any trouble though if I am being honest - I would say we need 18 points from a possible 60. Blackpool, Derby and Bolton were tough fixtures too over Xmas, all huge clubs.
As for the crowds, we took 1900 to Derby, didn't you take 1200 to Mansfield, similar distances in the same week? The football on offer will definitely have a bearing on fans, but the suggestion we have the flakiest fans in the EFL is wrong in my opinion - I would suggest you stop living in the past as for the last 10 years there is little between us in terms of crowds and success.
As for dropping like a stone, Glass houses and all that..
Never claimed there was. It's the handful of fans that come on here claiming you're massive compared to us which is laughable. I don't think you'll go down either as you've already got a big points buffer.
I think Mansfield is largely regarded the worst awayday on the calendar certainly out the local games The Police insist on total overkill .
I can understand that, to be fair I’m the first to admit Town’s away support has always been better than The Imps.
Under the Cowley’s the numbers were great, 5,500 at MK Dons for the title decider, 3,300 midweek at Coventry* … those days are long gone, probably forever.
*my personal ever favourite beating Mark Robins Cov 4-2 with Rheady scoring the best goal I’ve ever seen from an Imps player.
Hope Artell turns things round for you personally mate, I remember getting beat by Barnet 0-6 way back in the day, not nice.
I can understand that, to be fair I’m the first to admit Town’s away support has always been better than The Imps.
Under the Cowley’s the numbers were great, 5,500 at MK Dons for the title decider, 3,300 midweek at Coventry* … those days are long gone, probably forever.
*my personal ever favourite beating Mark Robins Cov 4-2 with Rheady scoring the best goal I’ve ever seen from an Imps player.
Hope Artell turns things round for you personally mate, I remember getting beat by Barnet 0-6 way back in the day, not nice.
I'm sat on the fence regarding DA at present. My own view is he's inherited a poor squad with a handful of quality players so let's see what happens after January. The only criticism is trying to play like Man City with players like Waterfall, Green, Clifton who are all battlers rather than passing players is asking for trouble. The season has been a huge disappointment thus far I was expecting a play off challenge and despite what's being said now I was far from alone in August.
I think Mansfield is largely regarded the worst awayday on the calendar certainly out the local games The Police insist on total overkill .
And what’s more a ridiculous comparison, with Lincoln at Derby. 12.30 Boxing Day at Mansfield where we have n played times in the last 10 years or a 60 mile trip to a former Premiership ground. We took 1,800 to Derby on our last visit, apart from the Prem Reserves trophy, for a League Cup Round 1 game.
Very much seems to be that they're justifying the losses as it's part of future proofing. Not sure I quite agree with that approach but then I'm neither a football CEO nor an investor in football either.
Towards the end of the interview he talks about having players out there who've previously left the club but they expect that they'll get sell-on fees coming in soon. This is exactly what I think we're trying to do, certainly with Conteh.
I think I read somewhere that they had lost £6 million over the previous four years now another £2.6m.
So £8.6 million down the pan and they are mid table L1. As we have seen countless times, the willingness of owners to keep pumping millions into a football club year after year usually comes to an end at some point with dire consequences for the club.
I do wonder what the game plan is for the owners. Do they simply have money to burn or is there some strategy to somehow turn a profit on their investment?
Very much seems to be that they're justifying the losses as it's part of future proofing. Not sure I quite agree with that approach but then I'm neither a football CEO nor an investor in football either.
Towards the end of the interview he talks about having players out there who've previously left the club but they expect that they'll get sell-on fees coming in soon. This is exactly what I think we're trying to do, certainly with Conteh.
I think he talks sense , I like the thinking of making sure their lowest ebb is higher if they do badly - something we should be mindful of in terms of not going out of the league at least .
He seems to indicate that their natural level would be bottom end league 1 at best without the investment which is probably our ceiling in truth .
In the wider perspective I can't see the football regulator happening anytime soon and when the new TV money comes in , clubs who don't care about trying to run at any sort of sustainable level just push it all into player wages with clubs like Town and Lincoln just having to lose more money just to compete at league 1 or 2 .
It's the Readings ,Wigans , Coventry's and many more examples that irk me when they overspend massively (money they have not got /will never have) without no particular punishment apart from a minor points deduction with lot's of glory in the meantime whereas the better run clubs get less glory or reward for doing things the right way
I think clubs should be booted out of the league for serious financial problems and not paying wages , I'm not saying finish the clubs but make it more of a deterrent of trying to chase the dream they can never afford
We need a few more Conteh's
We should thank Lincoln for Joe Hutchinson though he's made us ££££ just to start.
I think I read somewhere that they had lost £6 million over the previous four years now another £2.6m.
So £8.6 million down the pan and they are mid table L1. As we have seen countless times, the willingness of owners to keep pumping millions into a football club year after year usually comes to an end at some point with dire consequences for the club.
I do wonder what the game plan is for the owners. Do they simply have money to burn or is there some strategy to somehow turn a profit on their investment?
They must have a figure that they are willing to put in overall, and you have to wonder how long they are content to lose £2m+ every year to finish mid-table in the third tier.
It is worth nothing that they are a brilliant appointment away from promotion and a poor appointment away from relegation.
They must have a figure that they are willing to put in overall, and you have to wonder how long they are content to lose £2m+ every year to finish mid-table in the third tier.
It is worth nothing that they are a brilliant appointment away from promotion and a poor appointment away from relegation.
On the evidence of last night and the past dozen or so games, I’d say the former.
The magical 50 point mark passed with 11 games to spare, Michael Skubala’s Imps have got the locals whispering about a late play-off push? With 3 out of the next 4 at home, stranger things have happened … we shall see?
My understanding was the increased TV money from next season was factored into the short term budgeting for Imps and why they were allowed to run with such a big shortfall this season.
My understanding was the increased TV money from next season was factored into the short term budgeting for Imps and why they were allowed to run with such a big shortfall this season.
Wow, The Imps are truly in their golden period right now.
Well no, that was the mid 1950’s but there’s not many left who can remember those times, such as winning 4-2 at Anfield. Bill Shankly was still Town manager back then I do believe?
Well no, that was the mid 1950’s but there’s not many left who can remember those times, such as winning 4-2 at Anfield. Bill Shankly was still Town manager back then I do believe?
Shankly managed Town in the early 1950's - before my time. I do however remember Andy Graver who scored a shed load of goals for you in the late 50's/early 60's.
Well no, that was the mid 1950’s but there’s not many left who can remember those times, such as winning 4-2 at Anfield. Bill Shankly was still Town manager back then I do believe?
That would be when Liverpool were in the second of 3 divisions then?
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
Well no, that was the mid 1950’s but there’s not many left who can remember those times, such as winning 4-2 at Anfield. Bill Shankly was still Town manager back then I do believe?
Believe you won there 3-1 in 1960 and Bert Linnecor was last player to score a hat trick there until Arshavin for Arsenal. Bert was a smashing guy played against him loads of times and mates with his 3 sons who were all good players themselves.
I would add that we have two guys in charge who have the club in their blood and hearts. Imagine if we had an owner like the guy who took control of Reading. They are in dire financial trouble with HMRC chasing them and bills not being paid. John Madejski built them club up as a local who knew the town and the fans. All his good work destroyed by Dai Yongge. The fans are fighting hard for their club’s survival, but asks huge questions about who should be allowed to buy clubs. The vetting does not seem to be fit fo purpose.
My Dad used to take me to watch Lincoln in the early 50's, and Andy Graver was playing for them, what a fantastic striker, he had 3 stints at Sincil Bank and in his first term there he scored over 100 goals in 4 seasons, I believe he still is the Imps highest ever goal scorer, he also played at some point in his career for Boston United and Skegness Town.Another Imps player I remember was a winger called Smillie, don't remember his full name but he was lightening fast.
I’ve seen some good, some bad and the majority mediocre over my 50 years of watching The Imps.
Step forward Jack Moylan…. I honestly can’t remember a better 45 mins by an Imps player, ever? He scored 2 belters and deserved a 3rd (when the rebound fell to Makama) in a scintillating display against a good promotion chasing Barnsley side.
The Tykes were on a decent run of 1 defeat in 19 games, so to destroy them 5-1 at Oakwell left me speechless.
2 home games coming up v Cambridge & Bristol Rovers, win those and the playoffs really are on, with confidence sky high as Skubala’s style really is beginning to take shape.
Shame Norfolkimp wasnt there as we were bloody fantastic,exciting times coming up at the bank in the next few seasons ! Season tickets for adults are now on sale at £399 for wanting to watch lincolnshires no1 football team !
SSSSSSSSKKKKKKKKKKKKUUUUUUUUUUUBBBBBBBBBAAAAALLLLLLAAAAAAAA. AHA
These imp fans must have such a busy life that they spend Mondays writing on every football clubs website about how good they are, bet the Man City and Liverpool supporters really look forward to the weekly update, just wish they would sodomist off our site, but if it makes them happy who are we to complain. Funny when they lose on a Saturday they seem to forget to tell how great they are but were unlucky to lose.
To be fair pizzzzzza unlike Norfolk i hate the poffs our record since @2000 is i think lost 7 ! The poffs tend to wreck the next season if you go up or stay down imo.
To be fair pizzzzzza unlike Norfolk i hate the poffs our record since @2000 is i think lost 7 ! The poffs tend to wreck the next season if you go up or stay down imo.
Shame Norfolkimp wasnt there as we were bloody fantastic,exciting times coming up at the bank in the next few seasons ! Season tickets for adults are now on sale at £399 for wanting to watch lincolnshires no1 football team !
SSSSSSSSKKKKKKKKKKKKUUUUUUUUUUUBBBBBBBBBAAAAALLLLLLAAAAAAAA. AHA
Shame Norfolkimp wasnt there as we were bloody fantastic,exciting times coming up at the bank in the next few seasons ! Season tickets for adults are now on sale at £399 for wanting to watch lincolnshires no1 football team !
SSSSSSSSKKKKKKKKKKKKUUUUUUUUUUUBBBBBBBBBAAAAALLLLLLAAAAAAAA. AHA
The only excited person at the bank will be the local branch manager; he can sell all your assets when your debt gets too much to cope with.
Sorry Heiseinberg ,BUT WE DONT HAVE ANY DEBT,it gets wiped out every year by the owners.
Next year before anybody is expected to be around £3million loss .I also repeat that we have a billionaire majority owner now who loves our club and city !
Sorry Heiseinberg ,BUT WE DONT HAVE ANY DEBT,it gets wiped out every year by the owners.
Next year before anybody is expected to be around £3million loss .I also repeat that we have a billionaire majority owner now who loves our club and city !
Can you provide evidence of Harvey Jabara being a billionaire? Cause I can't find any. There's a Gary Jabara that's got an estimated net worth of $1 billion but that's not who owns your club.
Well i havent asked him but i am very reliably he is with all his business/sporting interests.Even if he isnt quite there he aint far off and helps wipe the debt at the moment !
Also, why does he love your club, was he born in Lincoln,family from there, does he attend any games, if none of the above seems a bit strange that someone is prepared to lose cash every year with no actual interest.
Yes he and his family come over at regular intervals in the season ! No he is american and no known lincolnshire relatives! Well i guess he wanted to get involved with British football and like Clive Nates he wanted to experience the game at a lower level than premiership and build up the right club up the leagues.He likes the club,the city and the people( our chairman is a top person).
Why cant he love us and be involved ie hands on.The stated aim is gradual improvement and championship football,which with our ex leeds coach is looking more and more likely as we speak.He is good friends with Landon Donovan who found him our club after talking to many.
Yes he and his family come over at regular intervals in the season ! No he is american and no known lincolnshire relatives! Well i guess he wanted to get involved with British football and like Clive Nates he wanted to experience the game at a lower level than premiership and build up the right club up the leagues.He likes the club,the city and the people( our chairman is a top person).
Why cant he love us and be involved ie hands on.The stated aim is gradual improvement and championship football,which with our ex leeds coach is looking more and more likely as we speak.He is good friends with Landon Donovan who found him our club after talking to many.
You are on a turbo charge right now tbf Big Steve at Stevenage might be getting worried about that 6th spot.
Yeah big game tonight ! Pish v stevenage .Hate both clubs/managers but posh must win i feel.Biggest rivals for last poff space is Blackpool imo. Think we will just miss out but very excited for next season.Season tkt purchase next wk !
Cambridge didn’t even play that badly either tbh, and will be fine with Gary Monk in charge.
11 goals in 2 games is the best since 2006 when we beat Rochdale 7-1 and Barnet 5-0 away when Jamie Forrester grabbed hat-tricks in both. Jack Moylan scored a brace again and got a marvellous assist too.
One game at a time, and trying my hardest not to get too giddy.
Not going to happen he has stated he is here for the long time ! He also is very clever that his wife and sons love it as well.Sustainable well we will see,as were getting to the stage where our young squad will be eventually sold to make it more sustainable!
Is any club bar the premiershite sustainable ,i would suggest not.Preston look to lose £12million a year which is bonkers.
I’m not sure how many premiership clubs are sustainable in any normal definition of that word. When you are allowed to lose £35 million a year under the FFP rules, and are reliant on billionaires pumping millions in each year to cover the losses it’s not really a sustainable business model.
Of the 92 prem and EFL clubs I think more than 60 have been in admin at one time or another, several on more than one occasion. I can’t think of any other business sector where two thirds of the business go bust, and then carry on under new owners but continue to lose money. It crazy really isn’t it.
You can convince yourself that being the play thing of a rich businessman with no real link to the club or the area is fine, and I am sure it is in the short term. After all you get to see a winning team which is great. But we have seen this sort of thing time and time again. I am sure the Scunthorpe fans were happy to take Swann’s cash when they were pushing for promotion from L1. Same with Rushdon and Diamonds. Remember them?
I think Lincoln's owners are decent Ron tbf , they are essentially gifting them money ; not asset stripping them or leveraging a load of debt against the club. I think like our's their long term plan is a sustainable club with good player trading .
Even if they walked away Lincoln would be debt free but no doubt have to cut their cloth somewhat .
I think both Lincoln and Town will be in a much better position off the pitch once their current custodians call it a day , what that actually equates to on the pitch is anyone's guess as I'm not sure how the game is going to go - it seems to be getting crazier by the week .
I dont need convincing because i trust them as people ! Swann ran out of his wifes money i believe ( thank god he didnt buy us when he agreed to),Rushden and Diamonds owner Max Grigg/Gregg i believe died and lets be honest it was 2 village teams merged in an area with loads of clubs already .
Rich mans plaything maybe so to a degree, i dont think its much difference to your owners who are pumping money in ! Dont see why our diverse ownership group will stay around any shorter time than your own .
Anyway we shall see how we both progress over the next few years,i know who i think will survive and prosper the most and hand on heart i bet most sane thinkers on here do to.
I dont need convincing because i trust them as people ! Swann ran out of his wifes money i believe ( thank god he didnt buy us when he agreed to),Rushden and Diamonds owner Max Grigg/Gregg i believe died and lets be honest it was 2 village teams merged in an area with loads of clubs already .
Rich mans plaything maybe so to a degree, i dont think its much difference to your owners who are pumping money in ! Dont see why our diverse ownership group will stay around any shorter time than your own .
Anyway we shall see how we both progress over the next few years,i know who i think will survive and prosper the most and hand on heart i bet most sane thinkers on here do to.
Uti
Swann tried to buy you? Blimey. You dodged a bullet there. But no doubt in the first few years of his ownership the Scunny fans held him in the high regard that you hold your owners. Owners are always popular when they are shovelling tons of cash into the black hole of small club finances.
Maybe you are right. Maybe these guys will keep on throwing millions down the shute to please 8,000 football fans of a small club. Maybe.
I don’t know what will happen any more than you do. But looking at what has happened to dozens of clubs previously surely it must be a concern? Why is this any different?
Yeah Swann shook hands on a deal in a lincoln pub near the castle! He renagde a day or 2 latas i believe. Yes we missed Scunnys championship / league 1 days but in hindsight thank god we did!
Lets just see where it all goes,you somehow get a new ground and you will be away flying again. I believe we have some good years to come and will.see how it all develops !
Yeah Swann shook hands on a deal in a lincoln pub near the castle! He renagde a day or 2 latas i believe. Yes we missed Scunnys championship / league 1 days but in hindsight thank god we did!
Lets just see where it all goes,you somehow get a new ground and you will be away flying again. I believe we have some good years to come and will.see how it all develops !
I think your immediate future is better than ours. I can’t see us getting a new ground any time soon.
We had some great years in the Championship but I can’t see that happening again unless we get a fairy godmother!!
Anyway, good luck. Hope you make it into the championship. You would have some truly memorable experiences there.
I don’t mean any criticism of our owners here but if they are pumping money into Grimsby it’s with a bike pump, not a fire hose.
It's about a million a season . Lincoln's owners is about 3 million .
You could argue that the extra 2 million is just to be competive in league 1 (the clubs turnovers are pretty similiar) , bridging the gap so to speak , if we ever manage to get up we would more than likely need to do the same or be in a relegation battle every year .
Sadly the greedy prem teams just want more and more ! Killing any real hope of competiveness bar the top 10 cant agree the new deal and just about killed the fa cup now with no replays.Your run and ours i doubt will happen again,killing the romance of football ( shame it wasnt the league cup )so they can play more european games and an expanded world club competition! Plus a ridiculous world cup.48? Teams.
Indeed. It’s all about more games for the TV companies. The players in the top clubs will be playing so many games that the clubs will have huge squads to cope with the high level of injuries that will result.
Indeed. It’s all about more games for the TV companies. The players in the top clubs will be playing so many games that the clubs will have huge squads to cope with the high level of injuries that will result.
But it will give prem managers more opportunity to complain about the number of games as they board the plane to Bangkok for a friendly.
Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
It's about a million a season . Lincoln's owners is about 3 million .
You could argue that the extra 2 million is just to be competive in league 1 (the clubs turnovers are pretty similiar) , bridging the gap so to speak , if we ever manage to get up we would more than likely need to do the same or be in a relegation battle every year .
This is why a profitable player trading model is so important as it helps bridge that gap. We can't rely on 1878 continuously plugging that gap because one day they won't do it anymore for whatever reason.
This is why a profitable player trading model is so important as it helps bridge that gap. We can't rely on 1878 continuously plugging that gap because one day they won't do it anymore for whatever reason.
Yes. And the profit we made on Conteh is obviously the way to go. But that relies on us spotting such players ahead of other clubs. Hence the important of the recruitment specialist.
Obviously we have been building contacts up in Ireland and signing young players to develop. Not sure its still a great place to find talent anymore however you guys might not know but you can now look worldwide for talent ! Our recruitment team have a database i was told of 8500+ players.They obviosly would not say where from but apparently have 1 to sign in the summer already ,you apparently can sign 2 players(wildcards) worldwide.
Obviously we have been building contacts up in Ireland and signing young players to develop. Not sure its still a great place to find talent anymore however you guys might not know but you can now look worldwide for talent ! Our recruitment team have a database i was told of 8500+ players.They obviosly would not say where from but apparently have 1 to sign in the summer already ,you apparently can sign 2 players(wildcards) worldwide.
Mate we had Chinas Captain playing for us whilst you were still counting to 10 on one of your hand
Obviously we have been building contacts up in Ireland and signing young players to develop. Not sure its still a great place to find talent anymore however you guys might not know but you can now look worldwide for talent ! Our recruitment team have a database i was told of 8500+ players.They obviosly would not say where from but apparently have 1 to sign in the summer already ,you apparently can sign 2 players(wildcards) worldwide.
That's true the last bit ,Artell talked about it in a recent interview so it will be interesting to see what 'out of the box ' signings clubs make .
Yes. And the profit we made on Conteh is obviously the way to go. But that relies on us spotting such players ahead of other clubs. Hence the important of the recruitment specialist.
Funny you mention Conteh, I thought he looked decent for you, but watching him yesterday for Bristol Rovers he as completely outclassed by Ethan Erhahon.
16 goals in 3 games is frankly ridiculous, and the first time ever that The Imps have scored 5 or more in 3 successive games. Good to see 9,000 Imps fans back inside the ground again too.
I honestly thought the Playoffs were a pipe dream a week ago, now with a 13 day much needed break, it’s very much ON.
Yes. And the profit we made on Conteh is obviously the way to go. But that relies on us spotting such players ahead of other clubs. Hence the important of the recruitment specialist.
Funny you mention Conteh, I thought he looked pretty decent for you, but watching him yesterday for Bristol Rovers he was completely outclassed by Ethan Erhahon.
16 goals in 3 games is frankly ridiculous, and the first time ever that The Imps have scored 5 or more in 3 successive games. Good to see 9,000 Imps fans back inside the ground again too.
I honestly thought the Playoffs were a pipe dream a week ago, now with a 13 day much needed break, it’s very much ON.
Funny you mention Conteh, I thought he looked pretty decent for you, but watching him yesterday for Bristol Rovers he was completely outclassed by Ethan Erhahon.
16 goals in 3 games is frankly ridiculous, and the first time ever that The Imps have scored 5 or more in 3 successive games. Good to see 9,000 Imps fans back inside the ground again too.
I honestly thought the Playoffs were a pipe dream a week ago, now with a 13 day much needed break, it’s very much ON.
For the 76 min Erhahon was in the pitch before getting sent off?
Lincoln are playing well and on a run that could see them do well in the play offs, the investment is clearly moving them forward. Their progress will be sustainable whilst they have owners who will sustain, completely different challenge if they do go up though.
I think it’s funny that their supporters come on here giving it the big un.
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
Funny you mention Conteh, I thought he looked pretty decent for you, but watching him yesterday for Bristol Rovers he was completely outclassed by Ethan Erhahon.
16 goals in 3 games is frankly ridiculous, and the first time ever that The Imps have scored 5 or more in 3 successive games. Good to see 9,000 Imps fans back inside the ground again too.
I honestly thought the Playoffs were a pipe dream a week ago, now with a 13 day much needed break, it’s very much ON.
9000 fans, on "Kids for a quid" day... probably the wrong day to have chosen that to be fair as I think you'd probably have got the same number yesterday but paying full price.
A 13 day break when you are on a great run, not lost in quarter of a season. I'd have thought the last thing the players and management will want is a break of that length? Keep the momentum going whilst you can. It'll refresh legs, that's for sure, but could perhaps knock a bit out of the momentum.
9000 fans, on "Kids for a quid" day... probably the wrong day to have chosen that to be fair as I think you'd probably have got the same number yesterday but paying full price.
A 13 day break when you are on a great run, not lost in quarter of a season. I'd have thought the last thing the players and management will want is a break of that length? Keep the momentum going whilst you can. It'll refresh legs, that's for sure, but could perhaps knock a bit out of the momentum.
Let’s give them credit, they are killing it right now. Playoff certainties. Fair play. That new manager is working wonders.
Mind you, if they go up, those £3m annual write-offs the owner sanctions will seem small fry - the Bristol city owner has to sign a cheque for £25m each year, and they’ve never even troubled the Prem. Crazy land.
Let’s give them credit, they are killing it right now. Playoff certainties. Fair play. That new manager is working wonders.
Mind you, if they go up, those £3m annual write-offs the owner sanctions will seem small fry - the Bristol city owner has to sign a cheque for £25m each year, and they’ve never even troubled the Prem. Crazy land.
League 1 is better-the-devil-you-know…….
I am giving them credit!!
Like I say, when you're going well the last thing you want to do is stop which is what they are doing for a fortnight.
Let it or not they have some very good players and the squad probably has a sizeable transfer value .
That’s certainly true, but it was so too for Scunny not so long ago. They’ve had some unbelievable players on their books in the last 15 years or so - Billy Sharp, Andy Keogh, Martin Paterson, Gary Hooper, Conor Townsend, Duane Holmes - off the top of my head (there will be more).
Don’t get me wrong, it seems Lincoln are in much better hands than Scunny were under Swann, but you always have to be careful when success is built on a large promotion of inorganic income. It worked well for Bournemouth, it worked a lot less well for them down the A180.
The exit / succession plan will be the ultimate litmus test of ownerships of this nature. It’s not a like-for-like comparison, I know, but Fleetwood are about to be the latest club to find this out.
A very good argument regarding sustainability, and no it really isn’t.
I think all Imps under the age of 70 (that’s probably 99%) just want 1 season in the 2nd Tier because that’s how long we’d last. Becoming a yo-yo club like Rotherham would be an attractive proposition though come to think of it. Promotion (as Champions preferably) one year, relegation the next.
Time will tell of course, my main concern is how long Skubala will last before he is snapped up, which he undoubtedly will be if he carries on like this?
A very good argument regarding sustainability, and no it really isn’t.
I think all Imps under the age of 70 (that’s probably 99%) just want 1 season in the 2nd Tier because that’s how long we’d last. Becoming a yo-yo club like Rotherham would be an attractive proposition though come to think of it. Promotion (as Champions preferably) one year, relegation the next.
Time will tell of course, my main concern is how long Skubala will last before he is snapped up, which he undoubtedly will be if he carries on like this?
The issue with fans is they are fickle and don't always care for the situation apart from what goes on , on a Saturday between 3pm and 5pm . Rotherham are a prime example they are running at a sustainable small loss but getting torched every week with 1/4th the budget of everyone else in the league . Their fans are not happy but what can you realistically expect ?
It's a bizarre and unique scenario when the better you do , the more you have to lose in terms of capital investment . The only recent examples are Rotherham & Wycombe who have not gone potty up there and neither lasted /will last long . Even the so called smaller clubs Brighton , Brentford , Luton and Bournemouth had heavy heavy investment to go right through .
How Lincoln would go about The Champ if they got there could be interesting I suppose , whether the owners would be willing to plough in 15-20 million to potentially still be in a relegation battle without getting much back ; I doubt that's something they would do .
It makes me laugh when you see fans saying that their club is 'too big ' for certain leagues - Bradford , Derby and Sunderland fans being primary examples . There are no big or small clubs anymore it's: the rich , wrong uns , the reckless and the sensible sometimes a variant of all 4 but the game has changed immeasurably to how many of us recognised it ,even in the last decade .
That’s certainly true, but it was so too for Scunny not so long ago. They’ve had some unbelievable players on their books in the last 15 years or so - Billy Sharp, Andy Keogh, Martin Paterson, Gary Hooper, Conor Townsend, Duane Holmes - off the top of my head (there will be more).
Don’t get me wrong, it seems Lincoln are in much better hands than Scunny were under Swann, but you always have to be careful when success is built on a large promotion of inorganic income. It worked well for Bournemouth, it worked a lot less well for them down the A180.
The exit / succession plan will be the ultimate litmus test of ownerships of this nature. It’s not a like-for-like comparison, I know, but Fleetwood are about to be the latest club to find this out.
The Fleetwood situation is weird because he's effectively still running them from behind bars with his offspring the majority shareholders on the books .
A very good argument regarding sustainability, and no it really isn’t.
I think all Imps under the age of 70 (that’s probably 99%) just want 1 season in the 2nd Tier because that’s how long we’d last. Becoming a yo-yo club like Rotherham would be an attractive proposition though come to think of it. Promotion (as Champions preferably) one year, relegation the next.
Time will tell of course, my main concern is how long Skubala will last before he is snapped up, which he undoubtedly will be if he carries on like this?
You have a great chance of going up. Your momentum is tremendous at the moment. It is certainly worth getting into the championship because you are bound to have a few truly memorable away days win lose or draw. When we were up there we won at Chelsea, Newcastle, Wolves, Sheffield United, and many others. I can scarcely believe that now.
Starting in 1980 we actually spent 17 of the next 22 seasons in the championship. I think that is more or less impossible for a club of our size now. What really did for us was the ITV Digital fiasco. We were promised millions, brought in expensive players in expectation of getting the funding, and were then left high and dry when the TV companies pulled the plug and the inept EFL had neglected to get a parent company guarantee. It's been pretty much a downward spiral since then.
Let’s give them credit, they are killing it right now. Playoff certainties. Fair play. That new manager is working wonders.
Mind you, if they go up, those £3m annual write-offs the owner sanctions will seem small fry - the Bristol city owner has to sign a cheque for £25m each year, and they’ve never even troubled the Prem. Crazy land.
League 1 is better-the-devil-you-know…….
There's giving them credit and then there's going OTT. Playoff certainties? They're in a five team battle for the last spot and they're two points off that spot right now. They're on a superb run but L1 is an unforgiving division and form can just disappear. Nobody seems to be able to hack the pressure of holding onto that 6th spot. Lincoln are favourites looking at current form but I wouldn't be surprised to see them get in the driving seat and bottle it.
There's giving them credit and then there's going OTT. Playoff certainties? They're in a five team battle for the last spot and they're two points off that spot right now. They're on a superb run but L1 is an unforgiving division and form can just disappear. Nobody seems to be able to hack the pressure of holding onto that 6th spot. Lincoln are favourites looking at current form but I wouldn't be surprised to see them get in the driving seat and bottle it.
Didn't they come from absolutely nowhere to make the League Two play-offs in the 2005/06 season, where they faced (and lost) to us?
Didn't they come from absolutely nowhere to make the League Two play-offs in the 2005/06 season, where they faced (and lost) to us?
Yeah, they certainly weren't up there for a big chunk of the season. Had some decent players, Forrester and Frecklington ripped us apart at Sincil Bank in the league. Most of the players in both lineups either fell into the physical (fast or cloggery) or silky bracket. Even despite a lack of pace, Gary Jones was arguably the one player in both squads that was most well rounded and he was the diffedence in the playoff semi. Quite how we got his red card rescinded for the final, I'll never know.
Yeah, they certainly weren't up there for a big chunk of the season. Had some decent players, Forrester and Frecklington ripped us apart at Sincil Bank in the league. Most of the players in both lineups either fell into the physical (fast or cloggery) or silky bracket. Even despite a lack of pace, Gary Jones was arguably the one player in both squads that was most well rounded and he was the diffedence in the playoff semi. Quite how we got his red card rescinded for the final, I'll never know.
I tried to find footage of the incident on Twitter, but all l was able to find was evidence that if you’re called Gary Jones, red cards don’t count.
I tried to find footage of the incident on Twitter, but all l was able to find was evidence that if you’re called Gary Jones, red cards don’t count.
Tweet 537285868529410048 will appear here...
Ha!
I thought I was watching the 5-0 defeat here for at first, have no recollection of two Lincoln offside goals at the start of the tie but here are the highlights from both playoff matches, about 5:30 for Lump's red...
Absolute limbs in the away end in the first leg when we score.
There's giving them credit and then there's going OTT. Playoff certainties? They're in a five team battle for the last spot and they're two points off that spot right now. They're on a superb run but L1 is an unforgiving division and form can just disappear. Nobody seems to be able to hack the pressure of holding onto that 6th spot. Lincoln are favourites looking at current form but I wouldn't be surprised to see them get in the driving seat and bottle it.
I would personally be surprised if we would get a play - off place. As mentioned, we are on a great run, but I thought we missed an opportunity against Stevenage who, despite what Steve Evans said, parked the bus and spoiled a game of football. What is remarkable is we are missing our two central midfielders in Hamilton and McGrandles who are both excellent, Now with Erhannon banned we will have a conundrum.
Not going to get on really on the financial issues discussed, but what I would say is we are debt free (Despite the losses), they are not saddled on the club or against assets. What we do have going for us is that we have marketable assets now in players (Bar Taylor) who is Luton's player. We were always short of strikers as there is such a big gap in L2 and L1 - You can see that with what the lad on loan from us at Donny Adelukan) is doing by tearing up the league - He was out his depth in L1 by a distance.
We have 2-3 players in my opinion that would command fee's near 7 figures and fortunately we own them - But, when we sell, which we will do, it is how we replace them.
As a side issue as mentioned on previous posts I always thought you would be safe, it would have been a travesty if a club with your history and fanbase were in the National League again - Plenty deserve to be down there and probably are more comfortable there - With a bit of Luck it will be Forest Green.
A basic question, for the 2 playoff games shown above Lincoln played in their red/ white stripes kit both games but we played in our blue away kit at their place and obviously our black/white shirts at home.
I would personally be surprised if we would get a play - off place. As mentioned, we are on a great run, but I thought we missed an opportunity against Stevenage who, despite what Steve Evans said, parked the bus and spoiled a game of football. What is remarkable is we are missing our two central midfielders in Hamilton and McGrandles who are both excellent, Now with Erhannon banned we will have a conundrum.
As much as it irks me to say it Steve Evans has done a superb job there. I'm pleased that he does this in interviews though as I feel I'd have to give him more begrudged credit if he just came out and owned what they are, which is arguably the best team in the while EFL and parking the bus and grinding you down into a low scoring defeat.
As much as it irks me to say it Steve Evans has done a superb job there. I'm pleased that he does this in interviews though as I feel I'd have to give him more begrudged credit if he just came out and owned what they are, which is arguably the best team in the while EFL and parking the bus and grinding you down into a low scoring defeat.
They're doing well to feck it all up recently though.
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They're doing well to feck it all up recently though.
We can live in hope - He, as mentioned, clearly he can get a tune out of a certain type of player, but his team are limited but effective. I think they will drop off - As for us, we have 2 key games out of the 7 left, Oxford away and we have Portsmouth at home last game of the season, which potentially could be complete chaos if a lot is riding on the game.
We can live in hope - He, as mentioned, clearly he can get a tune out of a certain type of player, but his team are limited but effective. I think they will drop off - As for us, we have 2 key games out of the 7 left, Oxford away and we have Portsmouth at home last game of the season, which potentially could be complete chaos if a lot is riding on the game.
Stevenage have a key player injured (top scorer, name escapes me) and their players are knackered. Evans has played a limited number of players this season and apparently it's beginning to show (it's suggested that he doesn't trust the rest of the squad at this level). I am reliably informed that the bubble has burst and a higher mid table finish is on the cards. Most Stevenage fans are just delighted that this season has gone the way it has as most were expecting a battle against relegation.
Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
Stevenage have a key player injured (top scorer, name escapes me) and their players are knackered. Evans has played a limited number of players this season and apparently it's beginning to show (it's suggested that he doesn't trust the rest of the squad at this level). I am reliably informed that the bubble has burst and a higher mid table finish is on the cards. Most Stevenage fans are just delighted that this season has gone the way it has as most were expecting a battle against relegation.
It doesn’t seem that long ago that they were fighting relegation from L2. I think the season they went up many of us thought they were destined for the NL.
It doesn’t seem that long ago that they were fighting relegation from L2. I think the season they went up many of us thought they were destined for the NL.
It's a fight they technically lost. Having amassed just 22 points from 36 games when the 19/20 season was curtailed by the pandemic, Stevenage were bottom of the table on PPG (the calculation used by the EFL to determine each club's finishing position). They were officially relegated, only to be reprieved as late as the August after the EFL were successful in adding a deducting a further 4 points to Macclesfield's initial 2 point deduction for financial misconduct.
If that wasn't fortunate enough, Macclesfield's deduction still left Stevenage comfortably second from bottom; it just so happened that only one club were to be relegated that season due to Bury's prior expulsion from the league. The jammy bástards - absolutely mental to think they could be playing Championship football next season.
Stevenage have a key player injured (top scorer, name escapes me) and their players are knackered. Evans has played a limited number of players this season and apparently it's beginning to show (it's suggested that he doesn't trust the rest of the squad at this level). I am reliably informed that the bubble has burst and a higher mid table finish is on the cards. Most Stevenage fans are just delighted that this season has gone the way it has as most were expecting a battle against relegation.
I agree regardless they have had a great season - There are a few clubs who I imagine have exceeded expectations - Leyton Orient being another.
I just think we will eventually miss our midfield 2, and with Portsmouth at home last game of the season, and them potentially being crowned champions we could not have a harder game. I think it will be Oxford or Blackpool, unfortunately.
I agree regardless they have had a great season - There are a few clubs who I imagine have exceeded expectations - Leyton Orient being another.
I just think we will eventually miss our midfield 2, and with Portsmouth at home last game of the season, and them potentially being crowned champions we could not have a harder game. I think it will be Oxford or Blackpool, unfortunately.
I'm not sure Orient have exceeded expectations. They were the first team we played when we returned to the league last year and I remember leaving the ground thinking 'christ, if that's the standard of League 2 we're in for a long season'.
Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
I'm not sure Orient have exceeded expectations. They were the first team we played when we returned to the league last year and I remember leaving the ground thinking 'christ, if that's the standard of League 2 we're in for a long season'.
Mmm, I am not so sure, I think being a fringe play off team was probably beyond what they thought they could achieve - Decent manager though and some decent players. I would have expected the teams at the top to be where they are and probably the teams at the bottom too - I thought Charlton would have been higher, Reading and Wigan have obviously been hampered by points deductions but are both decent teams.
Eventually there'll be a straw that breaks the camels back. Either they'll have a very poor season and the vast majority of the new fans (which is approximately 5000 of their regular 7500 at home games) will stop going or the funding will be cut leading to a poor season and get the same outcome. They'll eventually be back to their natural level and back to having less than 5000 at home games.
9,000 home fans, a complete sell out in a gate just shy of 10,000 (segregation permitting) to see The Imps unbeaten run stretch to 14 games.
Fitting that an ex-Academy player came off the bench to snatch a sublime last minute winner against a very decent Orient side.
9 wins in that run btw with only 4 goals conceded, that’s without our entire first choice midfield (Erhahon, Hamilton & McGrandles) missing.
Can we feasibly match the Club record unbeaten 18 game run from 1980, but that was over 2 seasons with 9 wins and 9 draws?
Bottom club and relegation certainties Carlisle up next …. you just know what’s coming don’t you?
Congratulations on staying up 91’ … will you be purchasing a Micheal Jolly type ‘Great Escape’ dvd for this improbable achievement?
The Imps meanwhile maintained their unbeaten run to 16 games, with a hard fought 1-1 draw away at Reading. Disappointing to concede from a simple set piece late on, thus dropping out of the play-offs in the process.
No easy games at this stage, but still in the mix … I’ll keep you updated.
Good luck to them. Minor rivals IMO compared to Scunts and Mudrats. Realistically, we can't compete with Hull nowadays and Scunts are playing park football. We're still sleeping and I'll be glad when we can all have a break from this awful season.
Good luck to them. Minor rivals IMO compared to Scunts and Mudrats. Realistically, we can't compete with Hull nowadays and Scunts are playing park football. We're still sleeping and I'll be glad when we can all have a break from this awful season.
Cheers JP, for you and several others I’m genuinely glad you won’t suffer the ignominy of Division 5 once again, it’s been a rotten couple of decades and you deserve better.
As for the Imps, well after 3 disallowed goals on Saturday and a last minute defeat to finally end the unbeaten run v Wigan, we bounced back in a huge 6 pointer v Oxford.
2 games left, 2 points behind, it would be nice to take it to the Final Day and still be in with a chance of the playoffs. Both games sold out, anything can happen in this crazy game we all love? 🤷♂️
Cheers JP, for you and several others I’m genuinely glad you won’t suffer the ignominy of Division 5 once again, it’s been a rotten couple of decades and you deserve better.
As for the Imps, well after 3 disallowed goals on Saturday and a last minute defeat to finally end the unbeaten run v Wigan, we bounced back in a huge 6 pointer v Oxford.
2 games left, 2 points behind, it would be nice to take it to the Final Day and still be in with a chance of the playoffs. Both games sold out, anything can happen in this crazy game we all love? 🤷♂️
All these things are just a snapshot in time. Just like our years at Championship level and your 10 years in league 5. Remember you have only reached the dizzy heights of league 3 and even Scunthorpe managed some seasons at Championship level so not sure your faux sincerity is justified.
Major New Investment at our club ! 12.6 or 12.9% of the holding company.Yes there American but highly usefull if we did enter the bonkers world of the championship.
So anybody who says people arent out there you need to start looking! This has come about after a meeting 2years ago.
Major New Investment at our club ! 12.6 or 12.9% of the holding company.Yes there American but highly usefull if we did enter the bonkers world of the championship.
So anybody who says people arent out there you need to start looking! This has come about after a meeting 2years ago.
I think with ourselves- Jason and Andrew- Rightly or wrongly are looking for investment from those who allign with what they want.
i dont see how we as a club can move forward without a lot of investment, as shown with you guys at Lincoln
Yes Hagrid they will need lots of help as jf ran you down and down im afaid BUT your new CEO could do no worse than taking ours for lunch and picking his brains on revenue streams etc etc and joking apart its going to take a 5yr+ plan ,like it or not.
Sadly the greed of the premiershite has made everything about money.
You know what, that's even more of a feather in the cap for Lincoln as they try to level up the playing field a bit in their league.
In some ways it's a slap in the face as we're not getting outside investment, but as Hagrid points out it's clearly not a case that people aren't out there - it's about if they align with what 1878 deem as the vision. I know that's uncomfortable for some people because it feels like we're treading water (at best) without that injection of funds.
But I'm still sceptical about all this investment at Sincil Bank. The opening line of the official club statement says it all:
Quoted Text
Ron and Andrew Fowler have joined the investment group at Lincoln City through their Liquid Investments, Inc. entity.
Investment group. That's people who are coming together with the belief that they'll get a return on their investment in a product. This isn't a case of donation or charity, they'll want something back. I just don't get what the return is going to be. I'm not a business mind and I'm asking lay person questions here. Where's the return on millions of pounds investment in a League One side with a natural ceiling? It will take an astronomical amount of investment/debt to compete in the second tier and even then it's not an appealing sell to a future investor is it?
Bringing it back to GTFC - our position isn't all too different, albeit further down the chain and earlier in the journey. We need investment to progress but long term security of the club shouldn't be compromised. 1878 are smart people, they'll want a return on their investment too and we can't kid ourselves of that. The comfort is in the fact that they're Town fans in the first place.
It'll be interesting in say 5 or 10 years time to see how the investment at Lincoln has panned out.
Where's the return on millions of pounds investment in a League One side with a natural ceiling? .
There is no return, and the natural ceiling has already been reached if not bettered this season.
The Imps are about the 13th biggest club in terms of attendances and revenues in the 3rd Tier. Yet here we are 1 game away from reaching the play-offs.
I honestly didn’t think The Cowley years would ever be topped, but I may need to re-evaluate this?
Why are these people with no link to the city sudden happy to invest millions in the club? What is the end game? There must be some plan otherwise they are simply wasting their money for no reason.
No-one, or should I say very few, will invest in a football club with no return. The people who do that are at least one of filthy rich, incredibly generous/blinded by their long standing affiliation with the club or stupid. That I'm aware of none of the Lincoln investment group match that criteria.
They'll want something back. There has to be a point where the level of investment made more than outstrips the potential for a return. The phrase pissing into the wind comes to mind.
Think it's obvious with the Imps and a seemingly supportive Council and growing fanbase the return on investment will come via a new ground .No reason they can't fill a 15k stadium. They are and have been the lower league model to follow on and off the pitch since the Cowley’s. We're miles behind thanks to Fenty but I think the gap will close over the next 12-18 months. The problem with that view we need to see winning football I and many others are sick of watching urine poor football in the EFL.
Genuinely till i have a moment to ask the question why then i dont disagree with your sceptism.However yet again though the £2million is in share capital not loans! Something i believe the Wrexham americans have ( loans). It is hard to fathom for Imps everywhere but we are not extremely wealthy individuals are we? I dont know what powers multi multi millionaires and we havent heard from the newest investors yet.However we are now in the stage of high network individuals( companies) who are friends of friends and who have vast sporting experience ,yes in american sport,but successfull.They are all stated the community.angle of the club.Also maybe they like the angle of sticking it up the big clubs and you scoff a sustainable approach in buying and selling players and not throwing absolutely loads of money like a premiershite club.
Who knows ,but the future of the club is bloody exciting i can tell you.
Was talk of a new stadium built as part of the Western Growth Corridor but that has really seems to have cooled off (not sure the club were ever actually on board with that) and the plans overall seem to get watered down every time I see something.
I still don’t get it. The Wrexham thing is a gigantic vanity project by people with a very high media profile. Doesn’t seem to be the case with Lincoln. I am not having a go here, but am simply struggling to understand what is going on. In my experience US investors are not known for just throwing money around with no strategy for making a return.
I wish Lincoln well in their current endeavours. I would, however, be wary of the Yanks. Prime ones to look at are the Glaziers who wanted Man U for money and the first thing they did was to put the club into debt! I'm not saying they were not in debt before the takeover, but they added a few million to it.
So let Lincoln enjoy a good time while they can and remember the iron whose previous owners dropped them like a ton of hotcakes. We will more than likely pass them in the next few seasons as they leave L1 and we replace them.
You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
I will probably get slaughtered for this but think it would be great if Town, Lincoln, Scunny and Donny were all in L1 slugging it out in the top ten. Think of all those amazing darby games.
I wish Lincoln well in their current endeavours. I would, however, be wary of the Yanks. Prime ones to look at are the Glaziers who wanted Man U for money and the first thing they did was to put the club into debt! I'm not saying they were not in debt before the takeover, but they added a few million to it.
So let Lincoln enjoy a good time while they can and remember the iron whose previous owners dropped them like a ton of hotcakes. We will more than likely pass them in the next few seasons as they leave L1 and we replace them.
I believe Man Utd were debt-free before the Glazers got involved, but immediately plunged them into £800m worth of debt by effectively taking out a loan under the club’s name to buy it - I still don’t get how they pulled that one off! And they were accruing something like £45m interest every year (when I say “they”, I mean their fans).
I am no fan of Man Utd at all, but the Glazers ruined that club.
It's a completely different scenario though - all the investment in Lincoln is in share capital so they are not accruing any debt whatsoever .
The only way these stakeholders will see a return on their investment is if Lincoln go right through you would have thought , maybe that's their plan I suppose we will get a better indication if they make it to The Champ whether these high net worth individuals are willing to throw serious money at it to chase the dream or if it's just a bit of fun with what is pocket money for them .
Whatever happens I highly doubt Lincoln will go the way of our neighbours and various others , the worst case scenario is the investment dries up and they get bored or whatever and Lincoln have to revert back to a more break even type model .
As much as it pains me to say it , these are exciting times if you are an Imps fan .
Yep that's pretty much it regards Man Utd, a leveraged buyout.
The thing is though, despite having that huge amount of debt and the large dividends paid out each year (mainly to the Glazers), they still should have been competitive. They were still spending enough money to challenge for major honours on a more often than not basis. Their failings isn't because of how the Glazers have sadddled them with debt, it's because of how badly they've been run from a footballing side.
The major issue facing them in the next decade or so will be the state of Old Trafford. It's crumbling and has fallen well behind other stadiums from the casual fan perspective and also from a corporate point of view. They've always had a huge draw in the international market, but with over 10 years of comparative failure and having seen the emergence of City plus the re-emergence of Liverpool and Arsenal in that time, it does beg the question how they'll continue to draw fans from outside the UK/hold onto their existing international fans. A 14-year-old kid in Singapore doesn't recognise Man Utd as a global force anymore than they do Brentford.
Thankyou Mappers ,it is very exciting and i havent seen many of the championship clubs in my time.It is bonkers in the championship with i believe Prestons owners funding there club @£12million a year to just stay in the championship.
We shall see the future how it pans out ,the premiershite clubs arent making it any easier for anyone with their greed however Bournemouth and Luton must be our role models to try and break into the premier league.
I would suggest that Yodas stated comment about being bust in 2years is laughable and DB you arent passing us on the way down anytime very soon if your serious are you?
I suppose it's just possible that the game plan is to get Lincoln into the Prem, where they would have gigantic TV and sponsorship income, and then sell the club for a substantial profit. Bournemouth got up there with a 12,000 capacity stadium. At that level the gate receipts are not the the most significant income stream.
Premier league clubs sell for hundreds of millions, and in some cases billions. So investing 50 million or so to get there might be a bold though risky strategy. But you can see an end game. Even if you don't sell the club you could plunder it for huge dividends each year.
You can buy yourself out of L1. The problem is getting out of the championship. Derby spent £200 million a few years and didn't make it. Well, they did. But not in the direction they had hoped for.
] The only way these stakeholders will see a return on their investment is if Lincoln go right through you would have thought , maybe that's their plan I suppose we will get a better indication if they make it to The Champ whether these high net worth individuals are willing to throw serious money at it to chase the dream or if it's just a bit of fun with what is pocket money for them .
Right through to the Prem? Unless you get unbelievably lucky that isn't happening without chucking tens and tens of millions at it. This is from a couple of years back but the weekly losses are eye watering!
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The majority of clubs at that level, even the struggling ones, spend more on wages than they bring in. Let's not even mention other costs, that's just on wages. For a club of Lincoln's size and ground capacity to be remotely competitive they would need to spend 200% of turnover, minimum. That couldn't come from ongoing investment from Landon Donovan's mates.
If it did, if Landon keeps finding happy go lucky blokes in San Jose who are willing to chuck a few million in here and there to bridge that gap it just adds up as money invested into the club. £10mill becomes £20mill, soon becomes £50mill....£100 mill...they're investors, they'll want their money back and then some profit when it comes to selling. Who's buying Lincoln City for that amount of money?
The whole game is broken. It might be exciting at the minute for Imps fans but I can't see a long term happy ending here (and I take no pleasure in saying that, nor would I for any football club). I'm not saying the investment group are out to a) do the dirty on Lincoln or b) run them as badly as Peter Swann. But it's a business move for these guys, they'll have a timeframe where they expect to get their return. If they don't, they won't intercourse about.
Not saying what’s happening at Lincoln is good or bad, but where are the league experts in this, if a club is for sale then prospective owners have to pass some sort of test to in theory prove they are genuine and have the funds, but as at Lincoln and various other clubs that have suddenly gone “ bust” , Bury for one, are the league checking up on how current owners are managing their clubs, or is it basically once you’ve got your hands onto the club then nobody in authority cares any more. Just asking as I think a few on here are sceptical about what’s happening now and how it may pan out in the for Lincoln eventually.
To reply if i was hoping to buy a stake then sell ,the stated aim is actually the championship not the premier league ( at the moment) i would want my money as a loan .However everybody has taken this as shares/equity in the holding company and not as loaning the club millions.
All i can say is we will see what the future brings BUT honestly knowing the people involved and what has happened so far in there tenure i and everybody i know at the club trust them 150million % .
To reply if i was hoping to buy a stake then sell ,the stated aim is actually the championship not the premier league ( at the moment) i would want my money as a loan .However everybody has taken this as shares/equity in the holding company and not as loaning the club millions.
All i can say is we will see what the future brings BUT honestly knowing the people involved and what has happened so far in there tenure i and everybody i know at the club trust them 150million % .
We’ve been dog excrement for 20 years and yet here you are still in touching distance in the league above . Your club will crash and burn in 5 years
Look forward to reading their match thread later, always a hoot. Starts with...don't care what happens, I'm so proud of my team, we could lose but it won't take the shine off the last couple of months.... FT: That was excrement! The ref was against us, and they were yobs, the worst team EVER to play us since the last worst EVER team, they may be promoted but I wouldn't swap places with them blah blah....
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