A few things that bother me

I'm sorry . I was feeling fed up this morning. That post wasn't any help to anyone . I'll go take my tablets and cheer up instead

Still think we will do enough to survive mid 40s will be enough this season and we’ll scrape them just

Quoted from It Bites

JS keeps referring to Grimsby Town Football club as the Corporation
. It's not a corporation, it's a football club .

PH looks far too relaxed and under no pressure at all

The playing side has not improved at all in league 2 since JF

The Staff bill must be massive but have they all made a difference?

We are sleep walking all the way to relegation

Why don't we approach league games like the fa cup games ? ( That one's a bit tongue in cheek )

I find your first point a bit pedantic.

As for relegation, thankfully I think it’ll be two of the current bottom three… but I can see us sleepwalking into making the last few games nervy affairs.

Could the other staff potentially make a difference in the longer term as opposed to the short term?

I struggle to pick fault in your other points.

I personally think -

JS can refer to the cor-club however he wants, he's put his money where his mouth is after all

PH isn't under any pressure, he's a cog in a long term machine and I'm not sure piling the pressure on him would neccesarily improve performances

The playing side was doing great to begin with, fatigue has set in with 2 months less pre-season than anyone else and more games played last season, plus they are all trying to stay injury free for a chance at the big cup game.  I don't care what anyone says, subconsciously that's where they are at.

7 points and 4 games in hand separate us from the drop zone, it's seriously not panic time.

Honestly if we get through to the 6th round it'll continue to be the case, can I blame the players? No, I'd do the same.  If we get knocked out then we might start to see lads playing for contrcat renewals in teh summer and upping their game with no distractions.

Gotta love The Fishy. One minute we're planning our FA Cup semi final accommodation the next we're bemoaning a lack of improvement since the Fenty era.

You must have forgotten the multitude of seasons of mercenaries we've previously endured in L2. The players we have now actually seem to care. It's no secret that we're a fair few signings and improvements away from being a force at this level but I personally think we've seen enough to know that we're not going down this season.

PH looks far too relaxed? He probably is quite chilled and fair play to him, I say. He's had some crap jobs and worked for some crap owners so I'm glad he's now in a positive place. Zen Hurst v2.0 is a hell of a lot more in touch with us as fans than Ear Cupping Hurst v1.0. I'd rather have an air of calm around the place now than a load of flappers screaming their heads off unnecessarily.

or everyone could just chill, get off the players/owners/manager backs. Rewind 12 months eh....

Incredibly harsh to say all the extra staff haven't improved us because the majority of them, by this I'm talking those back office functions, will have no impact on the footballing side of the club.  They're there to improve the 'Corporation', the business side of the pitch.  If they're successful they'll increase revenue which should, you hope, mean Hurst has extra resources at his disposal.  

The right here and now, I don't think we know if they've made improvements or not.  If I'm going to be a harsh critic, I'm erring on the side of no.  Perhaps a case of too much, too soon when it came to change and there's a lot of things that appear to be a bit sloppy at the minute.  The ticketing farces that are ongoing (despite what the club claim), the Twitter account getting locked out for god knows how many days, the empty advertising slots, the constant noises we hear that people who previously got looked after by Dave Smith are now disregarded.
We don't know the circumstances around these issues but at face value it doesn't look great, yet anyway.  My suspicion is that some of the people who have left were pretty much holding things together, their absence has created an absolute vacuum.  That in itself needed addressing one way or the other.

Looking objectively at it, I would say the disappointment for me is that if these individuals did hold the fabric of the club together, moving them on at such pace is a bit unfair really.  There's a lot of talk about culture and changing it, but cultures are inherited and for staff that were at the club for years they've become accustomed to that culture.  It takes time to change mindset and disrupt yourself.  Transition is difficult and the last 18 months weren't really the most settled of environments to do it in either.  

I'm probably at the point of questioning some of the decisions that are made on a day-to-day basis, whilst still buying into the overall objective and vision.

Quoted from diehardmariner

Incredibly harsh to say all the extra staff haven't improved us because the majority of them, by this I'm talking those back office functions, will have no impact on the footballing side of the club.  They're there to improve the 'Corporation', the business side of the pitch.  If they're successful they'll increase revenue which should, you hope, mean Hurst has extra resources at his disposal.  

The right here and now, I don't think we know if they've made improvements or not.  If I'm going to be a harsh critic, I'm erring on the side of no.  Perhaps a case of too much, too soon when it came to change and there's a lot of things that appear to be a bit sloppy at the minute.  The ticketing farces that are ongoing (despite what the club claim), the Twitter account getting locked out for god knows how many days, the empty advertising slots, the constant noises we hear that people who previously got looked over by Dave Smith are now disregarded.  We don't know the circumstances around these issues but at face value it doesn't look great, yet anyway.  My suspicion is that some of the people who have left were pretty much holding things together, their absence has created an absolute vacuum.  That in itself needed addressing one way or the other.

Looking objectively at it, I would say the disappointment for me is that if these individuals did hold the fabric of the club together, moving them on at such pace is a bit unfair really.  There's a lot of talk about culture and changing it, but cultures are inherited and for staff that were at the club for years they've become accustomed to that culture.  It takes time to change mindset and disrupt yourself.  Transition is difficult and the last 18 months weren't really the most settled of environments to do it in either.  

I'm probably at the point of questioning some of the decisions that are made on a day-to-day basis, whilst still buying into the overall objective and vision.

Great post and I would agree with most of what you've posted. I sometimes think of the saying 'if something seems too good to be true, it probably is' when I think of the takeover. I still wonder if the running of a football club takes the owners out of their comfort zone because of the variables that they can't control.

I think it's easy to underestimate the legacy that Fenty left on the place and how long it takes to rebuild that level of damage.

It's no secret that he let nobody have room to make a decision themselves and I think for some it was too much to step out of that mindset, especially as quick as was expected.  

Stockwood isn't quiet about wanting people to think independently and challenge the business and themselves, if they don't then they're out.  In his book he openly recalls that when he took over Simply Business he moved on over half the workforce within a year.  The writing was on the wall.

But football isn't like other businesses, comparing what he and Pettit have done previously to a local football club is very different.  Let me be clear, I'm not questioning either of their business acumen.  They know their excrement, quite clearly.  But just taking the commercial side as an example, a lot of our existing commercial activity was local.  It was built on trust and relationship building, which I'm told Dave Smith was excellent at.  Could he have done more to bring in additional business?  Perhaps. In the 15 years he was at the club prior to 1878 taking over was he ever given that opportunity?  Unlikely.  Is it fair to expect him to develop that skillset immediately?  Again, no.  Was his value recognised at keeping existing customers noted and acknowledged as unsustainable if he left?  I think perhaps not.

Another point.  Stockwood isn't running the club.  He's the chairman, not the CEO.  He's got other business activities and interests, he lives in Manchester.  Debbie Cook runs the club on a day-to-day basis.  If Stockwood is good to his word on trust, ownership, taking control etc. then she won't be running every decision by him.  

I think 1878 are great, I think they articulate what they want to an unbelievable level that we could only have dreamed of previously.  Their ethos and values are incredible and align with mine and I suspect an awful lot of our fanbase.  They get 'it'!  

But perhaps just maybe, this out with the bathwater approach wasn't what was needed for the club.  The absolute encouragement is that Stockwood talks at length about continuous improvement, part of that is reviewing the changes you've made and then going again.  Improvement isn't a straight line, it will and does have bumps in the road.

What we have in 1878 are two very, very successful businessmen who, in their 'normal' working life make vast amounts of money. First and foremost they have been GTFC fans for many more years than they have been businessmen.

As with any business, the aim is to make as much money as possible, which they both do successfully. They have both thrown loadsamoney into this club already, and openly admit that 'the club' is and will still be losing money year on year for a few years to come, but they are happy to continue to lose those large amounts of money personally and thats something that we should all remember and take into consideration.

Being the owners of the 'business', its only right that they want and need the right people working for them, so as much as we have been saddened to see long term staff 'moving on', it wont have been something that 1878 will have done lightly if it was their choice. Either they will have seen that the staff were not of a level that they needed amongst their ranks, or some of the staff members themselves, who had plodded along taking home a paypacket monthly under the previous regime, didnt want the change.

As 'diehardmariner' touched upon, "when he took over Simply Business he moved on over half the workforce within a year". He only wants the best working for him. End of.

"Simply Business, a business insurance provider which has gained recognition for its treatment of its employees. Simply Business was voted as the number one ‘Best Place to Work’ in the UK by The Sunday Times in both 2015 and 2016, with Stockwood winning the overall Best Leader award in the latter year"

Now THAT is the type of person you want in charge.

Yes while 1878 have money, they have nothing like the money being pumped into Wrexham, and several other NL teams, but we are now in the league again and need to secure our league position first before anything. All small steps.

[and then when the contacts that 1878 have come in with millions of pounds of investment then we can all dream but until then........]

We have played well in the cup.  However, there's less pressure on the players. They probably know that consciously or sub conciously.   We've played a lot of teams further up the pyramid so we were expected to lose.  This can make you play a bit more freely.  Also, we were a bit fortituous as Luton had us penned for large periods of time. They didn't convert when they had an opportunity.

PH too chilled?   Bascially, that's his personality.  He doesn't show his emotions much.  Aslo, did you see his interview during the transfer window.  He looked haggard.

Quoted from It Bites

The playing side has not improved at all in league 2 since JF

You are either new to watching Town, have a very short memory or are certifiably insane...the teams that were relegated to the National League were some of the worst teams I have ever seen run out in a Town shirt. Some of the performances those seasons were spirit crushingly awful and delivered by players who were just picking up their wages and couldn't give a flying sh*t about the club. The current group are miles ahead of those bloody awful teams.

Is the home form this season good enough? No

Are the league results in the past 15 matches good enough? 11 points from 45 isn’t great to say the least. However, as poor as that run has been, all we have to do is maintain that ‘form(!)’ and it will almost certainly be enough to keep us up. It would get us to 47 points (which in reality would be 48 points given the disparity in goal difference between us and the current bottom two).

Quoted from diehardmariner

Incredibly harsh to say all the extra staff haven't improved us because the majority of them, by this I'm talking those back office functions, will have no impact on the footballing side of the club.  They're there to improve the 'Corporation', the business side of the pitch.  If they're successful they'll increase revenue which should, you hope, mean Hurst has extra resources at his disposal.  

The right here and now, I don't think we know if they've made improvements or not.  If I'm going to be a harsh critic, I'm erring on the side of no.  Perhaps a case of too much, too soon when it came to change and there's a lot of things that appear to be a bit sloppy at the minute.  The ticketing farces that are ongoing (despite what the club claim), the Twitter account getting locked out for god knows how many days, the empty advertising slots, the constant noises we hear that people who previously got looked after by Dave Smith are now disregarded.
We don't know the circumstances around these issues but at face value it doesn't look great, yet anyway.  My suspicion is that some of the people who have left were pretty much holding things together, their absence has created an absolute vacuum.  That in itself needed addressing one way or the other.

Looking objectively at it, I would say the disappointment for me is that if these individuals did hold the fabric of the club together, moving them on at such pace is a bit unfair really.  There's a lot of talk about culture and changing it, but cultures are inherited and for staff that were at the club for years they've become accustomed to that culture.  It takes time to change mindset and disrupt yourself.  Transition is difficult and the last 18 months weren't really the most settled of environments to do it in either.  

I'm probably at the point of questioning some of the decisions that are made on a day-to-day basis, whilst still buying into the overall objective and vision.

I know someone who used to have an advertising board at town, after a few years he decided to cancel it but the ad-board stayed in place for another 4 seasons for no charge. That was when Dave was in charge, so he obviously wasn't that amazing.

What bothers me is the dire football and it's not even winning dire football.

It's a war of attrition most weeks and we are losing the battle.

The FA Cup form is great but it makes the league form even more frustrating.

Quoted from diehardmariner

Incredibly harsh to say all the extra staff haven't improved us because the majority of them, by this I'm talking those back office functions, will have no impact on the footballing side of the club.  They're there to improve the 'Corporation', the business side of the pitch.  If they're successful they'll increase revenue which should, you hope, mean Hurst has extra resources at his disposal.  

.

This. Bearing in mind the new owners have only been in charge what, 18 months? And the staff they've employed obviously less than that.

Quoted from Roast Em Bobby

I know someone who used to have an advertising board at town, after a few years he decided to cancel it but the ad-board stayed in place for another 4 seasons for no charge. That was when Dave was in charge, so he obviously wasn't that amazing.

And that helps highlight my point.  He, or anyone else, have their faults.  But the wholesale change approach didn't/doesn't recognise their strengths and assets.

I find it hard to look at it in any other way that the club have scored an own goal in not ensuring that the assets certain individuals brought to the table weren't accounted for when those people left.  

Quoted from ginnywings

What bothers me is the dire football and it's not even winning dire football.

It's a war of attrition most weeks and we are losing the battle.

The FA Cup form is great but it makes the league form even more frustrating.

I agree.  

I've always accepted Hurst's style of football because it largely has been successful for us.  He frustrates me when he keeps the shackles on but its outweighed by many more things that he offers.

But a combination of poor football, poor results and a lack of winning battles is a recipe for disaster.  

If I was Danilo Orsi, I'd be fuming right now..

Quoted from WayneBurnettsJockstrap

What we have in 1878 are two very, very successful businessmen who, in their 'normal' working life make vast amounts of money. First and foremost they have been GTFC fans for many more years than they have been businessmen.

As with any business, the aim is to make as much money as possible, which they both do successfully. They have both thrown loadsamoney into this club already, and openly admit that 'the club' is and will still be losing money year on year for a few years to come, but they are happy to continue to lose those large amounts of money personally and thats something that we should all remember and take into consideration.

Being the owners of the 'business', its only right that they want and need the right people working for them, so as much as we have been saddened to see long term staff 'moving on', it wont have been something that 1878 will have done lightly if it was their choice. Either they will have seen that the staff were not of a level that they needed amongst their ranks, or some of the staff members themselves, who had plodded along taking home a paypacket monthly under the previous regime, didnt want the change.

As 'diehardmariner' touched upon, "when he took over Simply Business he moved on over half the workforce within a year". He only wants the best working for him. End of.

"Simply Business, a business insurance provider which has gained recognition for its treatment of its employees. Simply Business was voted as the number one ‘Best Place to Work’ in the UK by The Sunday Times in both 2015 and 2016, with Stockwood winning the overall Best Leader award in the latter year"

Now THAT is the type of person you want in charge.

Yes while 1878 have money, they have nothing like the money being pumped into Wrexham, and several other NL teams, but we are now in the league again and need to secure our league position first before anything. All small steps.

[and then when the contacts that 1878 have come in with millions of pounds of investment then we can all dream but until then........]

The problem is too many look at their achievements in the businesses they have worked in which are nothing like running a football club. A football club lives and dies for what is done on the pitch and I wonder if their love for Paul Hurst has taken their eye off what the club is doing on the pitch, yes the run in the FA Cup has been above all of our expectations since the 1st round draw was made but our League form is what really matters and that has been very poor recently and as some say and I have mentioned previously that we are getting ourselves into a relegation scrap and we are looking at those below us saving us by not improving.

We may struggle on and stay up but I would never forgive them if we were to drastically get relegated again.

Quoted from ginnywings

What bothers me is the dire football and it's not even winning dire football.

It's a war of attrition most weeks and we are losing the battle.

The FA Cup form is great but it makes the league form even more frustrating.

I know you & I have agreed to disagree over this not too long ago but it's pretty worrying that even you are getting a little pi$$ed off.

Quoted from Bigdog

If I was Danilo Orsi, I'd be fuming right now..

Its OK, he will be the lone forward again against Southampton.......and then he will be dropped again. I seem to remember Hurst quoting that Orsi was by far the best finisher we had.....and yet he doesnt play him when he has the chance to. Very odd.

I must say that the bounce we had during the promotion gave me optimism for a repeat performance, albeit without Fox. You could see the enthusiasm, never say die till the final whistle is blown that won us marvellous victories against more fancied opposition

Effort and motivation in parts but the ethos of that squad has not been repeated this term. The nucleus of the squad is the same but something is different and has changed, and I don't know what it is. Hunt without McAtee or McAtee without Hunt, permanent additions of Holohan, Green and Morris not blending in well after the first few games. Smith having unusual off days? You could say one or all of these but something is not right this season.

Hurst's tactics, but he gets them right for cup games! Is/has the cup run distracting the squad? No new permanent signing in the window to revitalise us, but as we now know it wasn't for the lack of trying by Hurst.

We're playing against more physical and taller/well-built teams. The questions are endless for the reason why and if anybody knows the answers then you're our next manager.

So where do we go from here? I have reduced my expectations to mid-table and have to reflect on what we have. Firstly and foremost is a club that has risen from the ashes and the new owners give us hope for the future. They have said that they will cover the losses and that they are not in it to make money, unlike the Glazer family. They may have millions but are not going to indefinitely fund the club, but want it to be self-sustainable in the long term, which like it or not is a very good long-term option ( ask Bury, Macclesfield, Darlington etc fans if you don't agree).

Then we have the structure of the club in terms of staff and BP. Understaffed for a professional club and a derelict stadium that the paint is holding together which has had no real investment in decades. Staff have been replaced and added to and the stadium has increased maintenance to try to drag it into the 21C. They are trying but because of the lack of investment in the past most work wants 6 noughts, if not more spending on it. Safety is paramount so I presume this is the reason the Osmond roof was shot-blasted last year.

Cheapside has been improved and so has the BP pitch, but a one-year makeover won't last forever. We are then left with Hurst who some say is living a charmed life given our recent results. I seem to recall Sir Alec was given one last game as the grim reaper's scythe had been raised; he won that game and the rest is history. Continuity in management is something this club has not had for many years and that is what 1878 is giving us with Hurst. 1878 are building a club out of ashes and need stability and that is what we have in Hurst. Given his words at the forum, he's not an idiot. nor a temporary crowd-pleaser, but he is Grimsby Town through and through.

So we are where we are, in a different place than last year and the 5th round of the FA Cup, and middling in league 2. Would you have taken that last year at this time? of course you wouldn't would.

UTM.................Forever

Quoted from Roast Em Bobby

I know someone who used to have an advertising board at town, after a few years he decided to cancel it but the ad-board stayed in place for another 4 seasons for no charge. That was when Dave was in charge, so he obviously wasn't that amazing.

Probably JF was fed up of climbing ladders to take it down

Quoted from DB

I must say that the bounce we had during the promotion gave me optimism for a repeat performance, albeit without Fox. You could see the enthusiasm, never say die till the final whistle is blown that won us marvellous victories against more fancied opposition

Effort and motivation in parts but the ethos of that squad has not been repeated this term. The nucleus of the squad is the same but something is different and has changed, and I don't know what it is. Hunt without McAtee or McAtee without Hunt, permanent additions of Holohan, Green and Morris not blending in well after the first few games. Smith having unusual off days? You could say one or all of these but something is not right this season.

Hurst's tactics, but he gets them right for cup games! Is/has the cup run distracting the squad? No new permanent signing in the window to revitalise us, but as we now know it wasn't for the lack of trying by Hurst.

We're playing against more physical and taller/well-built teams. The questions are endless for the reason why and if anybody knows the answers then you're our next manager.

So where do we go from here? I have reduced my expectations to mid-table and have to reflect on what we have. Firstly and foremost is a club that has risen from the ashes and the new owners give us hope for the future. They have said that they will cover the losses and that they are not in it to make money, unlike the Glazer family. They may have millions but are not going to indefinitely fund the club, but want it to be self-sustainable in the long term, which like it or not is a very good long-term option ( ask Bury, Macclesfield, Darlington etc fans if you don't agree).

Then we have the structure of the club in terms of staff and BP. Understaffed for a professional club and a derelict stadium that the paint is holding together which has had no real investment in decades. Staff have been replaced and added to and the stadium has increased maintenance to try to drag it into the 21C. They are trying but because of the lack of investment in the past most work wants 6 noughts, if not more spending on it. Safety is paramount so I presume this is the reason the Osmond roof was shot-blasted last year.

Cheapside has been improved and so has the BP pitch, but a one-year makeover won't last forever. We are then left with Hurst who some say is living a charmed life given our recent results. I seem to recall Sir Alec was given one last game as the grim reaper's scythe had been raised; he won that game and the rest is history. Continuity in management is something this club has not had for many years and that is what 1878 is giving us with Hurst. 1878 are building a club out of ashes and need stability and that is what we have in Hurst. Given his words at the forum, he's not an idiot. nor a temporary crowd-pleaser, but he is Grimsby Town through and through.

So we are where we are, in a different place than last year and the 5th round of the FA Cup, and middling in league 2. Would you have taken that last year at this time? of course you wouldn't would.

UTM.................Forever

We're not middling in League 2 though are we? We've won three of the last 15 in the league and have the second worst home record.

Bet you our form picks up once Southampton is out the way.

Quoted from GrimRob

Bet you our form picks up once Southampton is out the way.

Depends if we beat them or not

Quoted from GrimRob

Bet you our form picks up once Southampton is out the way.

Not sure that reflects too well on the players who are, according to PH, all great professionals, be very disappointed if that proves to be the case. That said I would prefer it to pick up then remain as at present.

Looks like a dose of reality is needed here - well at least for me anyway. I was greatly encouraged by the unity of the club during the forum but the last two performances have eradicated a lot of the enthusiasm I had. And there is the point - I am pretty fed up of the perinnial one step forward and two back supporting this club. I honestly thought that wasn't going to be the case this season.
In the last two games we haven't look good enough to win, bullied out of the game easily. Signing a revolving door of under 23's is not the answer and never has been. Lloyds main attribute appears to be his enthuisiam and whilst I would never question MacAtee's ability I would question his current motivation. Not sure what Orsi has to do to keep his place either. We miss Green and Khan and I would always play Amos over Glennon any day. Quite frankly with one or two exceptions I am becoming rather bored by our football. Maybe the reality of where we are is where where we're going to be if the last transfer window is anything to go by and our obvious lack of stock (and money) in the market is probably not going to change.
Whilst last season was a fantastic achievment we were the sixth best team and rather look like it now. Maybe a time to lower my expectations is the answer or win the Cup!!

Quoted from MuddyWaters

I know you & I have agreed to disagree over this not too long ago but it's pretty worrying that even you are getting a little pi$$ed off.

I'm always pretty optimistic and try to see things in the long term, but I'm finding it increasingly difficult to muster any enthusiasm for the fare on show at BP.

The results are worrying enough, but the way we are playing is atrocious. We don't seem to have any cohesion, any players that can make things happen with a bit of skill or quick thinking. We have somehow ended up with no wingers either. It's slow, predictable and usually fruitless. There is an inevitability about games that we will struggle to break teams down and will at some point switch off and concede.

We don't even seem to be able to get the basics of controlling a ball and passing it to a team mate, which is pretty shoddy for professional footballers. Other teams don't have this problem from what I can see.

My brother gave up a few games ago, saying the football sends him home in a foul mood. I'm starting to lean that way myself.

Another season rolls on and it's the same old struggle it always is in league 2 for us.

It’s all about systems and processes, 1878 are building the systems, PH & CD are installing the processes, and we have to put our trust in them.

The fitness and sharpness of the players at this club vs the fitness and sharpness of the the players here 2 years ago shows how far we have come.

We have completely rebuilt the squad from the bunch of misfits, rejects and outright gambles that PH inherited.

The progress of Luke Waterfall & Harry Clifton in particular go some way to highlight the processes we are pushing.

The only other players PH inherited that are still here are Biz Scanz, who we can all agree is a good player at this level of he ever makes it back to fitness, Evan Khouri & Ollie Battersby both young and on the fringe.

Quoted from PoutonStepover

It’s all about systems and processes, 1878 are building the systems, PH & CD are installing the processes, and we have to put our trust in them.

The fitness and sharpness of the players at this club vs the fitness and sharpness of the the players here 2 years ago shows how far we have come.

We have completely rebuilt the squad from the bunch of misfits, rejects and outright gambles that PH inherited.

The progress of Luke Waterfall & Harry Clifton in particular go some way to highlight the processes we are pushing.

The only other players PH inherited that are still here are Biz Scanz, who we can all agree is a good player at this level of he ever makes it back to fitness, Evan Khouri & Ollie Battersby both young and on the fringe.

The manager has been here over two years, much longer than most of his fellow League 2 managers, and we’re still at the arseend of that division with very few of our players looking like they belong in the future of the club.

No one will ever forget the end of last season but we got there with a lot of desire and passion and a fairly generous dose of good fortune. I’m not doubting that an abbreviated pre-season made summer recruitment difficult but the end of the summer window and all of the January were massively underwhelming. If you needed proof of our nervousness about the window, you only had to look at the countless pages on this forum.

I’m not saying we’re going down. Thankfully, there seems to be a few teams worse than us but, if another survival season was the plan, I’d be very surprised.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

We're not middling in League 2 though are we? We've won three of the last 15 in the league and have the second worst home record.

O Ye of little faith.

Quoted from PoutonStepover

It’s all about systems and processes, 1878 are building the systems, PH & CD are installing the processes, and we have to put our trust in them.

The fitness and sharpness of the players at this club vs the fitness and sharpness of the the players here 2 years ago shows how far we have come.

We have completely rebuilt the squad from the bunch of misfits, rejects and outright gambles that PH inherited.

The progress of Luke Waterfall & Harry Clifton in particular go some way to highlight the processes we are pushing.

The only other players PH inherited that are still here are Biz Scanz, who we can all agree is a good player at this level of he ever makes it back to fitness, Evan Khouri & Ollie Battersby both young and on the fringe.

Hurst came in, and did the same as he did in this window. Left it late till all the pieces alligned then got a load of new players and managed to take us down even though when he came in we were above the drop zone.

Since then he has gone through loads of players; nobody knows what his preferred system is, the squad is unbalanced and has been for months and the reason he is not under severe pressure is last season's miracle, so I don't think it is rosy at all on the manager front.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Hurst came in, and did the same as he did in this window. Left it late till all the pieces alligned then got a load of new players and managed to take us down even though when he came in we were above the drop zone.

Since then he has gone through loads of players; nobody knows what his preferred system is, the squad is unbalanced and has been for months and the reason he is not under severe pressure is last season's miracle, so I don't think it is rosy at all on the manager front.

Last week he was El Genarali this week he is Captain Mainwaring.

Quoted from HerveJosse

Last week he was El Genarali this week he is Captain Mainwaring.

I am hoping at 5 pm Saturday he is back to being El General but that is the nature of the game.

I am with 1878 & their model for long term prosperity for the town & the club.
However they would be daft not to be now looking over their shoulders & be aware aware of our current abysmal form & pending desperate situation if we are are are not very careful.
I am sure I am not alone to have noticed that PH mentioned in his post match interview that the difference between us & Gillingham was Hawkins & Nichols  - who both cost fees.
I will leave it at that.

Food for thought- 39 points was enough to survive relegation in league 2 last season.

Quoted from paramariner

Food for thought- 39 points was enough to survive relegation in league 2 last season.

The same will be true this season if second-bottom Hartlepool persist at their current rate of 0.84ppg. Still, it’s dangerous to assume they, and others, won’t improve on that. I’d want to build an 8 or 9 point safety buffer into calculations, which means we really want to be aiming for high 40s.

4 wins and 3 draws from our final 19 games should do the trick, and when you think that still allows us to lose another 12 it feels eminently doable, though I remain quietly nervous. Above all else, I’m frustrated and disappointed that I felt motivated enough to even do the maths.

I don’t think we will see Town pick up until the FA Cup run is over and the money is in the bank.
If we win the Cup - Town could have bizarrely been relegated.
Just seems how it is - defeating the higher league teams in the Fa Cup and losing to the lesser ranked clubs in Towns division.
To win the FA Cup would sugar the pill for me.
UTM

There is always one team that drops like a stone and goes down.
I think we will stay up just.
In all of Hursts years here i still have no idea of his style of play.
But it is not great to watch.

Quoted from Teestogreen

I don’t think we will see Town pick up until the FA Cup run is over and the money is in the bank.
If we win the Cup - Town could have bizarrely been relegated.
Just seems how it is - defeating the higher league teams in the Fa Cup and losing to the lesser ranked clubs in Towns division.
To win the FA Cup would sugar the pill for me.
UTM

You are course nuts - Southampton will be our cup final.
Still  - dreams are made of this & I am with you .
UTM

Quoted from Poojah

The same will be true this season if second-bottom Hartlepool persist at their current rate of 0.84ppg. Still, it’s dangerous to assume they, and others, won’t improve on that. I’d want to build an 8 or 9 point safety buffer into calculations, which means we really want to be aiming for high 40s.

4 wins and 3 draws from our final 19 games should do the trick, and when you think that still allows us to lose another 12 it feels eminently doable, though I remain quietly nervous. Above all else, I’m frustrated and disappointed that I felt motivated enough to even do the maths.

I think this is what’s eating at the pragmatists at the moment. I’m fully behind the staff and squad but it is hard not to be affected by the sentiments expressed in abundance in threads that we are not kicking on at all and are giving the impression of being perennial L2 strugglers (when we’re here) and this really is disappointing and below what I think are realistic expectations and ambitions given our overall resource and fan base. We have some good players I think, and on our day we can beat anyone. L2 is fairly evenly matched but the longer it goes on, the more your ‘true’ position takes shape, and this really isn’t where we should be. I won’t be lashing out or panicking or overstating things but I think we all expect a better standard, and rightly so. Things have to improve, and quickly.

Finally joined the club, hey everybody, international fan here!

Hope we get the twitter account running again, we are 0-2 since then, thats where the problem lays!

Jokes aside,
I think we shouldn't panic too much. We still have 4 games less than Hartlepool and are 7 points clear.
On the other hand I believe the last thing we should do is relying on mistakes of the others around us.

Last 2 games were played like everybody was visualising themselves at St. Marys already. PH gotta put the pressure on the team that every game counts and no one is set for Southampton. Hope things improve asap. There are still so much games to go and archieve better than so far.

Quoted from chaos33

I think this is what’s eating at the pragmatists at the moment. I’m fully behind the staff and squad but it is hard not to be affected by the sentiments expressed in abundance in threads that we are not kicking on at all and are giving the impression of being perennial L2 strugglers (when we’re here) and this really is disappointing and below what I think are realistic expectations and ambitions given our overall resource and fan base. We have some good players I think, and on our day we can beat anyone. L2 is fairly evenly matched but the longer it goes on, the more your ‘true’ position takes shape, and this really isn’t where we should be. I won’t be lashing out or panicking or overstating things but I think we all expect a better standard, and rightly so. Things have to improve, and quickly.

I’m not into all of the ins and outs at each individual club during the transfer window but I suspect that if someone rated the relative signings at each club, we’d be somewhere near the bottom. Given that we’d be in the playoffs for home (and away) support, this is really disappointing.

Quoted from Heswall Mariner

You are course nuts - Southampton will be our cup final.
Still  - dreams are made of this & I am with you .
UTM

Of course I’m nuts Heswall Mariner
UTM

Quoted from JBazza

Finally joined the club, hey everybody, international fan here!

Hope we get the twitter account running again, we are 0-2 since then, thats where the problem lays!

Jokes aside,
I think we shouldn't panic too much. We still have 4 games less than Hartlepool and are 7 points clear.
On the other hand I believe the last thing we should do is relying on mistakes of the others around us.

Last 2 games were played like everybody was visualising themselves at St. Marys already. PH gotta put the pressure on the team that every game counts and no one is set for Southampton. Hope things improve asap. There are still so much games to go and archieve better than so far.

Welcome Bazza.

Quoted from Yoda

There is always one team that drops like a stone and goes down

Always? Sometimes, not even very often

[quote=140776]I must say that the bounce we had during the promotion gave me optimism for a repeat performance, albeit without Fox. You could see the enthusiasm, never say die till the final whistle is blown that won us marvellous victories against more fancied opposition

Effort and motivation in parts but the ethos of that squad has not been repeated this term. The nucleus of the squad is the same but something is different and has changed, and I don't know what it is. Hunt without McAtee or McAtee without Hunt, permanent additions of Holohan, Green and Morris not blending in well after the first few games. Smith having unusual off days? You could say one or all of these but something is not right this season.

Hurst's tactics, but he gets them right for cup games! Is/has the cup run distracting the squad? No new permanent signing in the window to revitalise us, but as we now know it wasn't for the lack of trying by Hurst.

We're playing against more physical and taller/well-built teams. The questions are endless for the reason why and if anybody knows the answers then you're our next manager.

So where do we go from here? I have reduced my expectations to mid-table and have to reflect on what we have. Firstly and foremost is a club that has risen from the ashes and the new owners give us hope for the future. They have said that they will cover the losses and that they are not in it to make money, unlike the Glazer family. They may have millions but are not going to indefinitely fund the club, but want it to be self-sustainable in the long term, which like it or not is a very good long-term option ( ask Bury, Macclesfield, Darlington etc fans if you don't agree).

Then we have the structure of the club in terms of staff and BP. Understaffed for a professional club and a derelict stadium that the paint is holding together which has had no real investment in decades. Staff have been replaced and added to and the stadium has increased maintenance to try to drag it into the 21C. They are trying but because of the lack of investment in the past most work wants 6 noughts, if not more spending on it. Safety is paramount so I presume this is the reason the Osmond roof was shot-blasted last year.

Cheapside has been improved and so has the BP pitch, but a one-year makeover won't last forever. We are then left with Hurst who some say is living a charmed life given our recent results. I seem to recall Sir Alec was given one last game as the grim reaper's scythe had been raised; he won that game and the rest is history. Continuity in management is something this club has not had for many years and that is what 1878 is giving us with Hurst. 1878 are building a club out of ashes and need stability and that is what we have in Hurst. Given his words at the forum, he's not an idiot. nor a temporary crowd-pleaser, but he is Grimsby Town through and through.

So we are where we are, in a different place than last year and the 5th round of the FA Cup, and middling in league 2. Would you have taken that last year at this time? of course you wouldn't would.

UTM.................Forever[/quote
Not to be pedantic .But we are 19th not middling

Football is a fickle game, We could still end up in a relegation battle, we could end up bottom half, we could end up mid table and heck, we could even sniff around the playoffs however unlikely.

At the start of the season I think people looking for playoffs were being a little overly optimistic and that a mid table finish (possibly the highest since 05/06 if we finish above 15th I think) would be more realistic. I personally think that would definitely be a step in the right direction from where we were a couple of years ago. Add to that our FA cup run and I think some fans are being a bit childish in spitting their dummies out. We were never going to suddenly start running up through the leagues with the new owners at the helm and to think otherwise is setting yourself up for disappointment. If we are still kicking around league 2 in 10 years having gone nowhere then I might start to ask questions but for the time being I think most fans should be fairly happy with where we are.

In Hurst and 1878 we trust.

UTM

Players need to be focused on one thing at a time that is the next game.

The cup run which is great is sadly distracting them, it's not their fault it's human nature.

If we win at Southampton  ( it could happen )    we will be up and down for a bit longer.

If we lose then the players will only have one thing on their minds winning league games.

They are all trying their best and none of them including Hursty and co want to lose any game.

So we should get behind them all the time and try not to be too critical if we lose.

Things will improve because they are too good not to be safe at the end of the season.

Quoted from grimsby pete

Players need to be focused on one thing at a time that is the next game.

The cup run which is great is sadly distracting them, it's not their fault it's human nature.

If we win at Southampton  ( it could happen )    we will be up and down for a bit longer.

If we lose then the players will only have one thing on their minds winning league games.

They are all trying their best and none of them including Hursty and co want to lose any game.

So we should get behind them all the time and try not to be too critical if we lose.

Things will improve because they are too good not to be safe at the end of the season.

Pete, have you seen us at home in the league? Saturday was dreadful. As have been most home performances. Notably Donny, Salford and Sutton. Only against Bradford, ironically a draw, can I say that I’ve really enjoyed watching us play.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Pete, have you seen us at home in the league? Saturday was dreadful. As have been most home performances. Notably Donny, Salford and Sutton. Only against Bradford, ironically a draw, can I say that I’ve really enjoyed watching us play.

Not live because of health only on tv which is not the same I know.

Players of all standards have the same problem they can only focus on one thing at a time.Look at Rashford while he was meeting the PM and doing excellent work about feeding kids his form was effected and could not get in the team.Now he has taken a back seat in doing too much he can not stop scoring goals.

When we have finished with the cup which the players have been so much better they will be able to focus on getting some wins under their belts and pulling away from the bottom and the threat of going back to non league.

The worry for me is that there seems to be this blind faith that we'll play our way out of bad form.  That it'll all just sort itself out in time.

Time hasn't run out.  But we're not blessed with loads of it.  We're in terrible form and with every passing defeat it becomes harder and harder to see when we're going to turn the corner.  Crewe felt that way but in hindsight maybe they were that bad!  Ten men or not, Hartlepool must be incredibly bad to lose to them.

Hope there that maybe there's just enough teams worse than us and/or can't catch us.  

The good away win at Crewe might just have been the exception that proves the rule (as they say).  A false dawn, just getting our hopes up.

To be honest I don’t accept that the cup run has anything whatsoever to do with our league form, especially as a number of those brought in during the window are cup tied. Our home form has been poor all season not just since November when we thrashed Plymouth.

Simplisticly the ball spends far too much time in the last third of our half. We don’t have the ability to get the ball forward and keep it there and our midfield far too frequently give the ball away even when not under pressure. Would reiterate other posts I and others have made in that our recruitment has not been good enough and given we are not able to compete physically against most of the L2 opposition we really needed our midfield and forwards to be top level L2 quality players to compensate and unfortunately ours are just competent with no one particularly outstanding.

Didn’t really expect we would be pushing for promotion this season, although quietly hoped the feel factor bounce might take us there, but certainly expected us to be comfortably mid-table without any fear of relegation. Unfortunately that’s what we have and a couple of quick wins is urgently required to remove these fears.

Quoted from grimsby pete

Players of all standards have the same problem they can only focus on one thing at a time.Look at Rashford while he was meeting the PM and doing excellent work about feeding kids his form was effected and could not get in the team.Now he has taken a back seat in doing too much he can not stop scoring goals.

I’m pretty sure Rashford’s poor form had little to do with his free school lunch / universal credit work. It’s just an excuse for The Daily Mail to lay into him for being black, self-aware and for not following their Tory line.

More likely reasons for his drop in form were the abusive aftermath of Euro 20; splitting up with his girlfriend; United signing Ronaldo and Sancho; relegated to 2nd or 3rd choice set piece taker; being played out of position; playing most of 2020/21 with long-standing shoulder and stomach problems, recovering slowly from surgery on these and the general mess that Man Utd were until Ten Hag joined.

Quoted from Knut Anders Fosters Voles

I’m pretty sure Rashford’s poor form had little to do with his free school lunch / universal credit work. It’s just an excuse for The Daily Mail to lay into him for being black, self-aware and for not following their Tory line.

More likely reasons for his drop in form were the abusive aftermath of Euro 20; splitting up with his girlfriend; United signing Ronaldo and Sancho; relegated to 2nd or 3rd choice set piece taker; being played out of position; playing most of 2020/21 with long-standing shoulder and stomach problems, recovering slowly from surgery on these and the general mess that Man Utd were until Ten Hag joined.

Much better to blame everyone else, than take some responsibility, I always find.

Quoted from Knut Anders Fosters Voles

I’m pretty sure Rashford’s poor form had little to do with his free school lunch / universal credit work. It’s just an excuse for The Daily Mail to lay into him for being black, self-aware and for not following their Tory line.

More likely reasons for his drop in form were the abusive aftermath of Euro 20; splitting up with his girlfriend; United signing Ronaldo and Sancho; relegated to 2nd or 3rd choice set piece taker; being played out of position; playing most of 2020/21 with long-standing shoulder and stomach problems, recovering slowly from surgery on these and the general mess that Man Utd were until Ten Hag joined.

FFS why drag politics into Rashfords' lack of form? All you had to mention was his personal and club problems.

Quoted from rancido

FFS why drag politics into Rashfords' lack of form? All you had to mention was his personal and club problems.

If you scroll upwards you’ll see that it wasn’t me who brought politics into this. It was Pete.

Quoted from Lincoln Mariner 56

To be honest I don’t accept that the cup run has anything whatsoever to do with our league form, especially as a number of those brought in during the window are cup tied. Our home form has been poor all season not just since November when we thrashed Plymouth.

Simplisticly the ball spends far too much time in the last third of our half. We don’t have the ability to get the ball forward and keep it there and our midfield far too frequently give the ball away even when not under pressure. Would reiterate other posts I and others have made in that our recruitment has not been good enough and given we are not able to compete physically against most of the L2 opposition we really needed our midfield and forwards to be top level L2 quality players to compensate and unfortunately ours are just competent with no one particularly outstanding.

Didn’t really expect we would be pushing for promotion this season, although quietly hoped the feel factor bounce might take us there, but certainly expected us to be comfortably mid-table without any fear of relegation. Unfortunately that’s what we have and a couple of quick wins is urgently required to remove these fears.

And where are we going to get the money from to buy and pay the wages these top quality players will demand.  You're just repeating what has been said 100's of times on this forum.  PH has obviously been given a budget, and it can only stretch so far, many, if not all of the top quality players will be out of our reach.  Really, how do you not understand this?

Quoted from 123614

And where are we going to get the money from to buy and pay the wages these top quality players will demand.  You're just repeating what has been said 100's of times on this forum.  PH has obviously been given a budget, and it can only stretch so far, many, if not all of the top quality players will be out of our reach.  Really, how do you not understand this?

Several of us don't understand it as we are one of the "big 6" daft as it sounds (as per an interesting Twitter account today) in the division. We are in the lowest division in the Football league (although I am glad to be even there after last season's miracle) and have crowds that would grace league 1.

We are not spending enough on players, however you cut it in relation to the size of the club, so something will have to give. I think Paul Hurst is as much to blame as to me he never aims high enough. He needs to start taking up the owners offer of money and being available/willing to talk about any player.

I posted earlier there are all sorts of ways to make the budget go further, but we also need to increase it. Nobody is talking about paying stupid money as we would never do that, but not being able to get a couple of league 2-ready players in the area we badly need is rather pathetic when we have such a good fan base, who in my opinion deserve a bit better in this regard.

Quoted from 123614

And where are we going to get the money from to buy and pay the wages these top quality players will demand.  You're just repeating what has been said 100's of times on this forum.  PH has obviously been given a budget, and it can only stretch so far, many, if not all of the top quality players will be out of our reach.  Really, how do you not understand this?

Who are you to tell me what I do and don’t understand? Not all quality players cost loads of money you just need to have better recruitment and spending more money guarantees nothing. We spent money on Hunt who everyone hoped would be one of those quality players but to date that hasn’t transpired but he’s still young and he has time to come good. Green, Holohan, Morris are good pro’s but ultimately we need better and I would say pretty much every side we have played will have at least one midfield player who would strengthen our side, you telling me everyone of these is on more money than town pay or commands a big fee?

We might be repeating this 100’s of times equally there are those like you who seem to think everything is rosy and any decent player is unattainable. I’ve been going to BP for nearly 60 years and the quality of the football played by town in home matches has been, in the majority of matches, some of the worst and least entertaining I can remember.

As I said previously I was not expecting us to be pressing for promotion but I sure as hell expected better than we have had served up to date.

Quoted from Lincoln Mariner 56

Who are you to tell me what I do and don’t understand? Not all quality players cost loads of money you just need to have better recruitment and spending more money guarantees nothing. We spent money on Hunt who everyone hoped would be one of those quality players but to date that hasn’t transpired but he’s still young and he has time to come good. Green, Holohan, Morris are good pro’s but ultimately we need better and I would say pretty much every side we have played will have at least one midfield player who would strengthen our side, you telling me everyone of these is on more money than town pay or commands a big fee?

We might be repeating this 100’s of times equally there are those like you who seem to think everything is rosy and any decent player is unattainable. I’ve been going to BP for nearly 60 years and the quality of the football played by town in home matches has been, in the majority of matches, some of the worst and least entertaining I can remember.

As I said previously I was not expecting us to be pressing for promotion but I sure as hell expected better than we have had served up to date.

I don't think everything is rosy, far from it, but I don't keep on about things that have been beaten to death on this forum.  Dunno why you think the amount of years you have been watching town matters regarding this thread, but if we are going down that road, I have been supporting town for 72 years.  Again, money and location, end of story.

Quoted from 123614

I don't think everything is rosy, far from it, but I don't keep on about things that have been beaten to death on this forum.  Dunno why you think the amount of years you have been watching town matters regarding this thread, but if we are going down that road, I have been supporting town for 72 years.  Again, money and location, end of story.

Well what should we discuss on this football forum, the weather? If it’s just about money and location we might as well give up then as Grimsby isn’t going to move and our owners will continue to run a tight ship and at present don’t appear keen on bringing in any other investors. Personally I think we might see some of those being loosened a little next season.

Quoted from 123614

I don't think everything is rosy, far from it, but I don't keep on about things that have been beaten to death on this forum.  Dunno why you think the amount of years you have been watching town matters regarding this thread, but if we are going down that road, I have been supporting town for 72 years.  Again, money and location, end of story.

Err you do keep on about things, the season we were relegated you kept saying we would win the next game and kept banging on about we would stay up when it was blatantly obvious due to that clown Holloway and Hurst's poor recruitment in the January there was only one way we were heading but you wouldn't have it

Quoted from Knut Anders Fosters Voles

I’m pretty sure Rashford’s poor form had little to do with his free school lunch / universal credit work. It’s just an excuse for The Daily Mail to lay into him for being black, self-aware and for not following their Tory line.

More likely reasons for his drop in form were the abusive aftermath of Euro 20; splitting up with his girlfriend; United signing Ronaldo and Sancho; relegated to 2nd or 3rd choice set piece taker; being played out of position; playing most of 2020/21 with long-standing shoulder and stomach problems, recovering slowly from surgery on these and the general mess that Man Utd were until Ten Hag joined.

Much better to blame everyone else, than take some responsibility, I always find.

Quoted from arryarryarry

Err you do keep on about things, the season we were relegated you kept saying we would win the next game and kept banging on about we would stay up when it was blatantly obvious due to that clown Holloway and Hurst's poor recruitment in the January there was only one way we were heading but you wouldn't have it

Hahaha, 'poor recruitment' again, pathetic.

Quoted from Lincoln Mariner 56

Well what should we discuss on this football forum, the weather? If it’s just about money and location we might as well give up then as Grimsby isn’t going to move and our owners will continue to run a tight ship and at present don’t appear keen on bringing in any other investors. Personally I think we might see some of those being loosened a little next season.

You're twisting my words, I never said we shouldn't discuss football matters.  'They don't seem keen on bringing in other investors', you sure about that, are you 'in the know'?

Quoted from arryarryarry

Err you do keep on about things, the season we were relegated you kept saying we would win the next game and kept banging on about we would stay up when it was blatantly obvious due to that clown Holloway and Hurst's poor recruitment in the January there was only one way we were heading but you wouldn't have it

Pathetic dig at me.  What I said referred to people who keep banging on about a poor transfer window, on THIS thread, NOTHING to do with what was posted in another thread, 2 years ago.  I can't remember that far back, and if you went to all the trouble of searching out everything I posted back then, well wow, you need to get a life!

Lincoln Mariner 56 said it all. It's the simple things that are done badly. Why does the GK send long balls towards an area which has more opposition players than our own?  Our GK gives the ball away 9/10 either out of play or to the opposition.
Why do we throw in down the line? We rarely keep the ball because we are muscled out, so why do we keep on doing it?
It's the simple things that we are poor at. However the players are good, technically, no doubt but are following a laid-down pattern of play.
Down to one man I'm afraid.

At the beginning of the season I unrealistically hoped we might do a Bristol Rovers and shoot straight up the table, for back to back promotions! Greedy and stupid in equal measure, I know. But at the very least I hoped we would build a team for a future push. A team that could be tweaked over a couple of seasons, to see a gradual rise towards eventual promotion. I'm sure 1878 and Hurst said as much last year. But what I see is the need for another overhaul. Another intake of players in the summer and thus the "building" starts afresh. If results falter in the early part of next season, some fans will undoubtedly call for calm, patience and another couple of seasons to let the new players settle, for Hurst to get to know his players,  blah blah and on we will go. More short term loan deals to see us through the season. More of the same bland, unentertaining football and anything above this seasons place will be seen as an improvement. Eventually, we might just get promotion, not by dominating the league, but by the skin of our teeth. The end will justify the means and on we will go.

Quoted from 123614

Hahaha, 'poor recruitment' again, pathetic.

Erm...............so why did we get relegated if all his signings were so good then?

Quoted from GrimPol

Down to one man I'm afraid.

Is that the ‘one man’ who neglected everything for 20 years? That Sh1t on the clubs reputation, Offered professional footballers a p1ss take in wages. Didn’t invest in the infrastructure of the club. Took shares from the supporters trust. Tried to get a convicted fraudster investing in the club. Got us relegated to non league football. TWICE.  Wasted money on trying to get the ground relocated. physically fought with managers and broke a kids flag????

(Allegedly)

Quoted from arryarryarry

Erm...............so why did we get relegated if all his signings were so good then?

I never said all his signings were good, I was indicating that for the umpteenth time, people blame 'poor recruiting', when he can only sign players we can afford or want to come here.  That is not poor recruiting, it's just a fact that some players don't want to come to Grimsby and others are out of our price range.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Several of us don't understand it as we are one of the "big 6" daft as it sounds (as per an interesting Twitter account today) in the division. We are in the lowest division in the Football league (although I am glad to be even there after last season's miracle) and have crowds that would grace league 1.

It does sound daft to be honest, because we're not in a big 6 of this division at all.

We've got the 7th highest attendance in the league, yet I'd be confident that the following teams below us the average have greater spending power than us - largely because they're not having to try and swim against the tide of 20 years of under investment - Donny, Northampton, Walsall, Gillingham, Stevenage, Colchester and Salford.  The six teams ahead of us (Bradford, Swindon, Stockport, AFC Wimbledon, Orient and Mansfield) will definitely have greater spending power.

We're absolutely a mid-table effort when it comes to our resources, that's generous too.

Our average attendance would put us 16th in League One, sandwiched between the giants of Shrewsbury and Cambridge.  Which gives a good indication as to both how we've fallen but also how the game has changed.  

Quoted from GrimPol

. It's the simple things that are done badly. Why does the GK send long balls towards an area which has more opposition players than our own?  Our GK gives the ball away 9/10 either out of play or to the opposition.
Why do we throw in down the line? We rarely keep the ball because we are muscled out, so why do we keep on doing it?
It's the simple things that we are poor at.

The simple things like a keeper not picking someone out to feet with a 60-70 yard pass, or alternatively giving the ball out short to a defender and then playing out from the back Barcelona-style.

It’s the simple things!

Quoted from diehardmariner

It does sound daft to be honest, because we're not in a big 6 of this division at all.

We've got the 7th highest attendance in the league, yet I'd be confident that the following teams below us the average have greater spending power than us - largely because they're not having to try and swim against the tide of 20 years of under investment - Donny, Northampton, Walsall, Gillingham, Stevenage, Colchester and Salford.  The six teams ahead of us (Bradford, Swindon, Stockport, AFC Wimbledon, Orient and Mansfield) will definitely have greater spending power.

We're absolutely a mid-table effort when it comes to our resources, that's generous too.

Our average attendance would put us 16th in League One, sandwiched between the giants of Shrewsbury and Cambridge.  Which gives a good indication as to both how we've fallen but also how the game has changed.  

I assume it was taking a more rounded approach to being one of the big 6. Potential,  previous achievements and crowd potential that sort of thing.

I think once we throw off the cloak of mediocrity of the  Fenty years then we will see that potential start to emerge. The game certainly has changed but one day it would be nice to see us be a force in league 1 again.

I agree with both of you and I do think we are one of the ‘big 6’ in L2, at least in terms of history, following and potential. In any event, and all things considered, our current league position is below par; I think that’s a given.

Yeah, I agree we're hindered by the legacy of the last 20 years.  But that's the here and now of it.

It's a vicious cycle.  Because we're having to spend money on hair dryers in the toilets and everything else that was ignored, it's impacting on the playing budget.  Purely on face value, because of the money we're bringing into the club through gates we should have a top half budget.  But we don't.  We also don't have someone throwing money at it either, which I don't particularly want.

More often than not, lesser budget equals lower league position.  The poorer your league position is, the worse your attendance will be.  Who wants to watch a losing team every week?  (That's before we look at the drab stuff we're seeing at the minute).  Less people coming in, even less money in the coffers, the wage budget takes a hit...you see where it goes from here.

That's how I see this line about potential.  Potential is only what you can achieve, actually achieving it is a completely different thing altogether.  Unfortunately our ability to reach any potential is massively hampered by the constraints on the club.  Working within those constraints, we will need to do something very different to a) reach our initial potential and b) exceed it.

I've no doubt we'll shake off the Fenty legacy in time, but without a significant leap of some sorts we'll always be playing catch-up because of it.  That's the actual legacy of it and the nature of catching up, others will move forward whilst we're trying to reach their current position.

Regards history, it's just that I'm afraid.  It has no relevance.  Sadly the memories many of us having regards this club and giving second tier clubs bloody noses are well consigned to the past.  We haven't been a force of any note in the game for over 20 years.  A very large proportion of current footballers will only see us as yo-yo team between the fourth and fifth division.  

The thing is with Hurty he has never had a consistant team, one that gets in to a league position and stays there.

But they have always come googd under him eventually, look at last season as the best example.
He wil build a promotion challeging side, may not be this season obviously but history dictates at town he always gets it right.

Maybe we need to have a bit more patients, after all look at all the clubs in the division they all have the same grumbles.

Quoted from heppy88

At the beginning of the season I unrealistically hoped we might do a Bristol Rovers and shoot straight up the table, for back to back promotions! Greedy and stupid in equal measure, I know. But at the very least I hoped we would build a team for a future push. A team that could be tweaked over a couple of seasons, to see a gradual rise towards eventual promotion. I'm sure 1878 and Hurst said as much last year. But what I see is the need for another overhaul. Another intake of players in the summer and thus the "building" starts afresh. If results falter in the early part of next season, some fans will undoubtedly call for calm, patience and another couple of seasons to let the new players settle, for Hurst to get to know his players,  blah blah and on we will go. More short term loan deals to see us through the season. More of the same bland, unentertaining football and anything above this seasons place will be seen as an improvement. Eventually, we might just get promotion, not by dominating the league, but by the skin of our teeth. The end will justify the means and on we will go.

With regards to BRFC

Play off final              17-5-15
New season start        8-8-15  

That was 12 weeks for them to get their pre-season sorted out, whereas we only had 8 weeks from the first weekend of June to the last weekend of July..... not an excuse but it is the fine margins and all that count when it comes to getting a fully fit and refreshed squad together

I have always thought a mid-table finish would be relative success but of course if we had managed to do a Brizzle, it would have been an absolutely incredible 12 months or so

Quoted from diehardmariner

Yeah, I agree we're hindered by the legacy of the last 20 years.  But that's the here and now of it.

It's a vicious cycle.  Because we're having to spend money on hair dryers in the toilets and everything else that was ignored, it's impacting on the playing budget.  Purely on face value, because of the money we're bringing into the club through gates we should have a top half budget.  But we don't.  We also don't have someone throwing money at it either, which I don't particularly want.

More often than not, lesser budget equals lower league position.  The poorer your league position is, the worse your attendance will be.  Who wants to watch a losing team every week?  (That's before we look at the drab stuff we're seeing at the minute).  Less people coming in, even less money in the coffers, the wage budget takes a hit...you see where it goes from here.

That's how I see this line about potential.  Potential is only what you can achieve, actually achieving it is a completely different thing altogether.  Unfortunately our ability to reach any potential is massively hampered by the constraints on the club.  Working within those constraints, we will need to do something very different to a) reach our initial potential and b) exceed it.

I've no doubt we'll shake off the Fenty legacy in time, but without a significant leap of some sorts we'll always be playing catch-up because of it.  That's the actual legacy of it and the nature of catching up, others will move forward whilst we're trying to reach their current position.

Regards history, it's just that I'm afraid.  It has no relevance.  Sadly the memories many of us having regards this club and giving second tier clubs bloody noses are well consigned to the past.  We haven't been a force of any note in the game for over 20 years.  A very large proportion of current footballers will only see us as yo-yo team between the fourth and fifth division.  

I agree with all of that apart from the hair dryers. I'm as bald as a billiard ball so don't want money spent on those!

I meant hand dryers but for some reason I put hair.  As a fellow cueball, I've no explanation for this!

Quoted from FishOutOfWater

With regards to BRFC

Play off final              17-5-15
New season start        8-8-15  

That was 12 weeks for them to get their pre-season sorted out, whereas we only had 8 weeks from the first weekend of June to the last weekend of July..... not an excuse but it is the fine margins and all that count when it comes to getting a fully fit and refreshed squad together

I have always thought a mid-table finish would be relative success but of course if we had managed to do a Brizzle, it would have been an absolutely incredible 12 months or so

They also finished second in the National League against our seventh. Realistically they probably needed far fewer additions as they had a very strong core.

Probably didn’t hurt that their owner is worth half a billion either.

Quoted from diehardmariner

I meant hand dryers but for some reason I put hair.  As a fellow cueball, I've no explanation for this!

Talking of hand dryers I think I read recently that research showed that actually, the good old paper towel is more hygienic. The reason is the hand dryer blows any germs about into the atmosphere.

That should save a few bob for the transfer fund if they take that advice.

Quoted from chaos33

I agree with both of you and I do think we are one of the ‘big 6’ in L2, at least in terms of history, following and potential. In any event, and all things considered, our current league position is below par; I think that’s a given.

Each to their own but I would say following a promotion that staying up and having the best cup run in a quarter of a century is at the very least par if not a birdie.

I think that long term and sustained success in life and football is achieved by steady progress.

Good ownership, leaderships and management.  Brighton,  Brentford and Fulham are perfect examples of getting most things right.  All have struggled in the EFL.

We can emulate some of their success.  Over time.

Quoted from Vance Warner

Each to their own but I would say following a promotion that staying up and having the best cup run in a quarter of a century is at the very least par if not a birdie.

Yeah that’s fair enough. I suppose my baseline was - we will be competitive, and not get beaten by all and sundry and go straight back down. I think it’s fair that our baseline expectation and objective is that, for this season. Just my view.