England

Southgate has reached his ceiling as England manager. Had some very favourable tournament draws. They'll never get rid of him because he's so embedded in the establishment. He should be getting more out of this crop of players, The amount of them he's now using is proving he's losing his way. A couple of the newer players in the starting eleven tonight have nowhere enough ability to be anywhere near an England squad.

Boring, one-dimensional, negative and predictable. Time for a change..

One of the most embarrassing nights I can remember as an England fan. I don’t think Southgate knows his best side and he seems too stubborn tactically, as others have said he really needs to let the hand break off, particularly at home against sides who we ‘should’ be beating comfortably.

I don’t see him going before the World Cup personally, but it feels like he’s lost the support of many tonight.

England cricket team demonstrated what can happen when shackles come off.

England's worse home defeat in 150 years?, when having not scored and conceded 4 goals.  Pity Kane was not on the pitch.  He was, for 90 mins?  Well, that is plan A out of the window.

Terrible result, although this group of players aren't all that like some people think either.

I’ve generally been a fan of Southgate since he got the job. A semi-final and a final after the embarrassment of 2016 is good going whatever context or narrative you try to apply to it.

All that said, whilst this was a relatively insignificant game in the big scheme of things, tonight’s performance and result is pretty indefensible.

Shambolic, the worst performance I've seen since the 2010 World Cup. We were generally terrible all across the pitch. Defensively, we were all over the place, Midfield we were toothless and upfront we played sloppy ball after sloppy ball. 4-0 flattered us and not Hungary.

Southgate has got a lot of problems to fix.

Firstly, if you look at the players who played against Italy in the Final there is literally nobody you can say had an outstanding season.  Rice probably had the best season, but if you look at the side in totality it's pretty awful.

Pickford - Everton nearly got relegated and were awful defensively for most of the season, admittedly when it really mattered he did pull out some big performances.
Walker and Stones, Neither had awful seasons but they aren't the key defenders that Pep relies on.
Maguire and Shaw both had a truly awful seasons at Man Utd
Trippier - injured for most of the run in
Phillips - Most of the season injured
Rice - good season at West Ham
Mount - the most overated footballer, didn't set the world on fire at a Chelsea side falling apart due to Ukraine
Sterling - Has dropped fown the pecking order
Kane - worst scoring season for Spurs, sulked first few months
Saka - good season at Arsenal, but he's bang average in reality
Henderson - Injuries
Grealish - move not 100% working out
Rashford and Sancho - more disastrous seasons at Man Utd.
H'es got a big problem that both Chelsea and Man Utd are basketcases at the moment and it's clearly having an impact .

I also think were overated. Kane is damn good striker, Grealish is creative and Foden could be very good but in reality we've got a bang average international goalkeeper. Our centre halves are by international standard average and we've got big problems if Kalvin Philips is a regular pick - he's barely Premier League Class.Really you say only our front line and Right back are genuinely decent.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

This. We’re weak at the back and Southgate over compensates by being negative through out the team.

My opinion is we should be playing 4-3-3. Declan Rice sat in front of the back four and 2 more attacking central midfields either side of him. Harry Kane with 2 pacy, attacking wingers/wide forwards.

Something like…

Pickford
Trent AA     Stones     ?????????     ????????
                    Rice
            Henderson     Mount
Sterling                            ????????
                     Kane

The problem there is that TAA isn't the best defensively, Stones is prone to a rick too often and who else will be picked in the other positions? Maguire has been right out of form (though he's generally done well in recent tournaments), but who are the other suitable central defenders? Coady not good enough in my view, White, Tomori and Guehi extremely inexperienced at international level and not exactly blowing the doors off in the league. I'd perhaps have Mings in ahead of most of those, though he's a bit limited himself. We'll just have to hope one of them has a stormer during the first few months of the season or Maguire regains some form. Left-back is perhaps a bit easier in Shaw's absence as Trippier is capable enough and reliable. If we were to play with a back 4, I think we'd need to have Walker at right-back as he's most reliable defensively in that position. James has disappointed me during his appearances in these Nations League games as he just hasn't put the required effort in. Then midfield. Rice obviously our best holding midfielder, Phillips is too limited, Ward-Prowse not good enough, Gallacher looked untidy in possession tonight. Luckily, Bellingham is a good player but it still leaves a 3rd space if we're going to be playing a 4-3-3 and I really don't see Mount as filling this role as he's in and out of the game too much. Not quite a midfielder, not quite a forward at present. I also think Henderson isn't quite up to the task, especially as he's slowed so much. Who else is there - Smith-Rowe, perhaps or Lingard? Both quite attacking players, I suppose.

Up front it has to be Kane and we've got pretty much no chance if he's not fit or is out of form because Abraham is an honest player, but nowhere near the same quality. I think I'd probably go with Grealish and Sterling alongside Kane (though Sterling has been right out of form over the past couple of weeks as well), with Foden on the bench. Saka and Bowen are both OK but nothing more. Where are the goals going to come from, however? From recent call-ups, only Rashford is in double figures for England and his form has been terrible over much of the past couple of years. Next highest scorer after Kane and Sterling is Maguire!

The problem, as some of the pundits have mentioned, is what has Southgate learned over the past 4 games? We've chopped and changed, generally played poorly regardless of the combination of players and haven't looked a goal threat with any of the tweaks Southgate has tried.

One thing is for certain, we're going to have to find some sort of a way to sort out the defensive weaknesses as it doesn't seem likely that we're going to suddenly start scoring a hatful of goals once again.

I didn't even know England had a game last night until I logged onto here just now. Oh well. Did I mention the town are going up?

Literally forgot England had a handful of games at a time when literally no player or manager wanted them.

Results across the board have been pretty excrement and we’re no different.

I listened to the match at have to say that Hungary, with no World Cup coming up seemed to fancy themselves but England were clearly experimenting and didn’t even seem to react.

excrement early but literally not arsed and wouldn’t read anything in to it…