Calculate the interest

I’m just going to play the Devils Adviocat for a bit.

Benign loans is an interesting term that comes up time and again in regards to the money that John Fenty has loaned to Grimsby Town Football Club.

Benign loans is certainly not a term that is used in the world of commercial lending. It appears to be a term John himself used in respect of the money he is loaning to the club, not his share purchases.

It got me thinking as I’ve had a wee bit of commercial borrowing experience in business myself.

First of all, I guess that the more intelligent amongst us probably realise that high street banks and commercial lenders would never realistically lend these sums of money to Town. We just aren’t a viable proposition, with no security either.

So, John Fenty has stood in and took the place of commercial lenders that wouldn’t touch a football club like ours with a barge pole. He has done so out of his own pocket, and he’s called them benign loans.

Benign in terms of no pressure to pay off any of the capital sum whilst he is still involved at the club. You don’t get that privilege when taking out a commercial business loan. You are expected to reduce the capital sum outstanding every single month.

Benign in terms of John’s agreement to not charge a single penny in interest. You certainly don’t ever get commercial loans at zero % interest. Can you image asking a bank to give you a loan with no repayments for god knows how many years and at zero interest?

Now I know that I’m going to be accused yet again as being pro board. I’m not, infact I’m fairly chilled about it. As I’ve said elsewhere, it doesn’t matter to me if we get new owners or not, just as long as they can do financially, at the very minimum, that what John Fenty has done.

So my questions are this,

1: If John hadn’t made these loans what he calls benign, then could Grimsby Town FC have been able to keep up with the monthly repayments?

2: What sum of money has Grimsby Town Football Club saved in interest charges on the huge capital sum that John Fenty has lent Grimsby Town Football Club at zero %. It must be mega. Especially on what is a sum that has hardly ever reduced significantly.

3: This is the big one. New owners. In paying off John Fenty’s loans, it’s a fair assumption that the loans will still sit on the Grimsby Town FC books, but now owing to you. So my question to the new owners is this. In respect of money you will have to lend to Grimsby Town FC, are you prepared to make these benign too, without monthly capital and interest repayments, where interest is going to be zero %. No pressure to repay whilst your consortium is involved in the club?

Maybe these are questions John Fenty expects to be answered too. Maybe these are the assurances he also seeks to protect the football club he loves.

As I said, just being Devils Advocate

IF the loans are truly benign then he won't care when he gets them back or at what rate.

This is not the case though is it, Mike Parker ring any bells. You know someone who gifted the trust $500K worth of shares with no conditions.

Remember where the benign loans come from, John hired and fired who he liked over the last couple of decades, and paid up players to get shot of them, he did this off his own back and should bear the consequences of that.

I'm sure if the deal goes through John will be paid the £200 K for the shares he got free off the trust so deduct that from any interest rates you want to add to his benign loans and shove it up your pro board bottom.

The ‘club he loves’!

Calculate the cost of the free advertising and use of the club on his crusade to local political positions.

Calculate the damage he has done to the reputation of the town and the club.

Calculate the loss of a whole generation of potential young fans because of his inept regime.

The list goes on...

You could debate this until the cows come home and there is no "correct" answer. He's got a decent deal and should take it.

Ok, Phil Night. Very interesting that you want the new owners to do what JF has done financially, for the club. What about what he’s done for the football side? No man who loves GTFC would have allowed the club to fall into non league, let alone spend six years there losing thick end of £3 million in revenue.

Quoted from Marinerz93

IF the loans are truly benign then he won't care when he gets them back or at what rate.

This is not the case though is it, Mike Parker ring any bells. You know someone who gifted the trust $500K worth of shares with no conditions.

Remember where the benign loans come from, John hired and fired who he liked over the last couple of decades, and paid up players to get shot of them, he did this off his own back and should bear the consequences of that.

I'm sure if the deal goes through John will be paid the £200 K for the shares he got free off the trust so deduct that from any interest rates you want to add to his benign loans and shove it up your pro board bottom.

Far too simplistic in your view/opinion

If he never wanted the money back, then the money would never have been called loans. They are loans and the very essence of a loan is that one day it has to be repaid.

You also have to factor in that theses loans are legal loans listed in the accounts. You can’t just wipe them out without accounting for them. They form part of the business liabilities

Quoted from Knut Anders Fosters Voles

The ‘club he loves’!

Calculate the cost of the free advertising and use of the club on his crusade to local political positions.

Calculate the damage he has done to the reputation of the town and the club.

Calculate the loss of a whole generation of potential young fans because of his inept regime.

The list goes on...

That’s just emotional poppycock. Not a rational business argument

Quoted from Knut Anders Fosters Voles

The ‘club he loves’!

Calculate the cost of the free advertising and use of the club on his crusade to local political positions.

Calculate the damage he has done to reputation of the town and the club.

Calculate the loss of a whole generation of fans because of his inept regime.

The list goes on...

Calculate all the freebies of home and away games for him and his family / friends

Calculate the wining and dining

Calculate the job opportunities for family members at the club.

Calculate the free parking home and away for directors right out side the grounds or travelling on the team coach.

Quoted from GrimRob

You could debate this until the cows come home and there is no "correct" answer. He's got a decent deal and should take it.

So it doesn’t bother you if newco comes along, and expects all of a sudden to start taking out monthly payments with interest ?

He fought for control of the club. He got it. The debt built up and up under his tenure.  So any debt should be for him to cover not the club or it’s new owners.

Then there’s the point about Parker. £1m in shares versus £775k for Fenty (he didn’t pay for the other £200k).

These other guys have got much more capacity to support the club than Fenty. Know-how, money, experience. And they can do it ethically.

Quoted from Marinerz93

Calculate all the freebies of home and away games for him and his family / friends

Calculate the wining and dining

Calculate the job opportunities for family members at the club.

Calculate the free parking home and away for directors right out side the grounds or travelling on the team coach.

Oh my word that is hysterical

Do you know you are talking about a man with a high net worth in excess of £50 million

And you are suggesting he is motivated by free tickets and car parking spaces 😂😂😂

Do you know how funny that sounds 😂😂😂

Quoted from KingstonMariner

He fought for control of the club. He got it. The debt built up and up under his tenure.  So any debt should be for him to cover not the club or it’s new owners.

Then there’s the point about Parker. £1m in shares versus £775k for Fenty (he didn’t pay for the other £200k).

These other guys have got much more capacity to support the club than Fenty. Know-how, money, experience. And they can do it ethically.

That’s not how things work though is it

Quoted from Fillipe Noche

That’s just emotional poppycock. Not a rational business argument

The probable reason interest wasn’t charged on the loan was that Fenty didn’t want to be taxed on the additional personal income

Quoted from MuddyWaters

. What about what he’s done for the football side? No man who loves GTFC would have allowed the club to fall into non league, let alone spend six years there losing thick end of £3 million in revenue.

Whoa Steady, on there we are about to repeat that any time soon

Quoted from Fillipe Noche

That’s just emotional poppycock. Not a rational business argument

I thought he ‘loved the club’. I didn’t realise it was a business vehicle for him.

Quoted from Fillipe Noche

I’m just going to play the Devils Adviocat for a bit.

Benign loans is an interesting term that comes up time and again in regards to the money that John Fenty has loaned to Grimsby Town Football Club.

Benign loans is certainly not a term that is used in the world of commercial lending. It appears to be a term John himself used in respect of the money he is loaning to the club, not his share purchases.

It got me thinking as I’ve had a wee bit of commercial borrowing experience in business myself.

First of all, I guess that the more intelligent amongst us probably realise that high street banks and commercial lenders would never realistically lend these sums of money to Town. We just aren’t a viable proposition, with no security either.

So, John Fenty has stood in and took the place of commercial lenders that wouldn’t touch a football club like ours with a barge pole. He has done so out of his own pocket, and he’s called them benign loans.

Benign in terms of no pressure to pay off any of the capital sum whilst he is still involved at the club. You don’t get that privilege when taking out a commercial business loan. You are expected to reduce the capital sum outstanding every single month.

Benign in terms of John’s agreement to not charge a single penny in interest. You certainly don’t ever get commercial loans at zero % interest. Can you image asking a bank to give you a loan with no repayments for god knows how many years and at zero interest?

Now I know that I’m going to be accused yet again as being pro board. I’m not, infact I’m fairly chilled about it. As I’ve said elsewhere, it doesn’t matter to me if we get new owners or not, just as long as they can do financially, at the very minimum, that what John Fenty has done.

So my questions are this,

1: If John hadn’t made these loans what he calls benign, then could Grimsby Town FC have been able to keep up with the monthly repayments?

2: What sum of money has Grimsby Town Football Club saved in interest charges on the huge capital sum that John Fenty has lent Grimsby Town Football Club at zero %. It must be mega. Especially on what is a sum that has hardly ever reduced significantly.

3: This is the big one. New owners. In paying off John Fenty’s loans, it’s a fair assumption that the loans will still sit on the Grimsby Town FC books, but now owing to you. So my question to the new owners is this. In respect of money you will have to lend to Grimsby Town FC, are you prepared to make these benign too, without monthly capital and interest repayments, where interest is going to be zero %. No pressure to repay whilst your consortium is involved in the club?

Maybe these are questions John Fenty expects to be answered too. Maybe these are the assurances he also seeks to protect the football club he loves.

As I said, just being Devils Advocate

To answer question 2, assuming a consistent loan of £1.5m, at a consistent 4.5% interest cost (noting base has moved between 0.1 and 0.75% over the last decade), the cost over a 10 year period would be £675,000.

To then answer question 1, there will have been some years that our accounts show this could have been serviced, and some where it couldn’t. As has been posted many times, c £800k has been repaid in recent years which shows that over time they interest could have been serviced. However, at commercial lending rates, less of the capital sum would have been paid down.

How the debt has built and whether it was right have been done to death, but the interest savings from the benign loans vs those incurred commercially would not be insignificant.

Look as a supporter of many years I want to know a bit more about the consortium coming in.

Crikey, the fact that two of three consortium have a lot of money does not impress me.

Mike Ashley trumps the financial clout of all of this consortium put together. But Newcastle fans are thoroughly urined off with the way he runs things up there.

Don’t just assume that these are knights on white horses.

I want to know what their motivation is. I want to know why they want our club. I want to know how they will support if financially and what are the terms of any loans that they have to extend to the club

Quoted from Fillipe Noche

Far too simplistic in your view/opinion

If he never wanted the money back, then the money would never have been called loans. They are loans and the very essence of a loan is that one day it has to be repaid.

You also have to factor in that theses loans are legal loans listed in the accounts. You can’t just wipe them out without accounting for them. They form part of the business liabilities

They can be written-off though can’t they, Philip / Stephen?

If the loan to the company is written-off the company will have a non-trading loan relationship credit equal to the amount written off.

JSF will crystalise a capital loss equal to the amount of the loan written off. This will be available to set off against capital gains arising in the year of write-off or in subsequent years.

Quoted from Fillipe Noche

So it doesn’t bother you if newco comes along, and expects all of a sudden to start taking out monthly payments with interest ?

It probably would but it's a hypothetical situation. It's obvious that whoever takes over has to keep the fans reasonably happy otherwise they revolt and refuse to put more money in. What is not hypothetical is that the current regime is finished.

Quoted from Fillipe Noche

Look as a supporter of many years I want to know a bit more about the consortium coming in.

Crikey, the fact that two of three consortium have a lot of money does not impress me.

Mike Ashley trumps the financial clout of all of this consortium put together. But Newcastle fans are thoroughly urined off with the way he runs things up there.

Don’t just assume that these are knights on white horses.

I want to know what their motivation is. I want to know why they want our club. I want to know how they will support if financially and what are the terms of any loans that they have to extend to the club

I agree that proper due diligence needs to be done. Although I don’t trust anyone from the selling side to be able to do that given that previously they can’t even be bothered to find out that their business partners are convicted fraudsters.

Quoted from Fillipe Noche

Far too simplistic in your view/opinion

If he never wanted the money back, then the money would never have been called loans. They are loans and the very essence of a loan is that one day it has to be repaid.

You also have to factor in that theses loans are legal loans listed in the accounts. You can’t just wipe them out without accounting for them. They form part of the business liabilities

Is it too simplistic or calling out what he has said, the loans will be paid back, they agreed on that.

The loans are against club assets so in fact interest isn't due is it if the loan is tied up which it is as he now owns the club assets. Fenty wants the loans paying up sooner than what was offered as the new consortium have wealthy men involved, is Fenty not wealthy any more, is he desperate, and the benign loan is no longer benign when there is a timescale put on it. Fenty could help the club out here for a change and say, you know what, pay me back 100K a year until the loans have been repaid or you know what, you the new consortium purchase X amount of shares and I will convert an equal amount of my loan in to shares to match you, is that too simplistic or does Fenty want the readies, remember what happened when Parker bought shares as a means to putting money into the club and what was agreed by Fenty.

I noticed you brushed over the bit about getting £200k of shares of the trust that he will cash in on making more out of that than any interest he would have got out of at any borrowing rate offered by the bank. So not all bad Fenty eh.

It all seems like the actions of a desperate man who would rather cling to power even though he has been called out,called out twice now by the new consortium. Just go John and give the fans a bright new start to 2021.

Quoted from blundellpork

To answer question 2, assuming a consistent loan of £1.5m, at a consistent 4.5% interest cost (noting base has moved between 0.1 and 0.75% over the last decade), the cost over a 10 year period would be £675,000.

To then answer question 1, there will have been some years that our accounts show this could have been serviced, and some where it couldn’t. As has been posted many times, c £800k has been repaid in recent years which shows that over time they interest could have been serviced. However, at commercial lending rates, less of the capital sum would have been paid down.

How the debt has built and whether it was right have been done to death, but the interest savings from the benign loans vs those incurred commercially would not be insignificant.

Spot on that mate, and maybe even a bit conservative.

Answer me this if you can also. Whilst the accounts show loan repayments at various stages, do they detail those lump sum repayments as being repaid to John Fenty?

Did Mike Parker and the Mullins provide loans to the business too? If so could all or some of those repayments detailed in the accounts be repayments to them? Genuinely don’t know the answer to that question. But it’s probably wrong to assume that any loan repayments paid at any stage were money paid back to John Fenty. I’m happy to have this aspect clarified though

Quoted from Marinerz93

Is it too simplistic or calling out what he has said, the loans will be paid back, they agreed on that.

The loans are against club assets so in fact interest isn't due is it if the loan is tied up which it is as he now owns the club assets. Fenty wants the loans paying up sooner than what was offered as the new consortium have wealthy men involved, is Fenty not wealthy any more, is he desperate, and the benign loan is no longer benign when there is a timescale put on it. Fenty could help the club out here for a change and say, you know what, pay me back 100K a year until the loans have been repaid or you know what, you the new consortium purchase X amount of shares and I will convert an equal amount of my loan in to shares to match you, is that too simplistic or does Fenty want the readies, remember what happened when Parker bought shares as a means to putting money into the club and what was agreed by Fenty.

I noticed you brushed over the bit about getting £200k of shares of the trust that he will cash in on making more out of that than any interest he would have got out of at any borrowing rate offered by the bank. So not all bad Fenty eh.

It all seems like the actions of a desperate man who would rather cling to power even though he has been called out,called out twice now by the new consortium. Just go John and give the fans a bright new start to 2021.

Fenty does not own the assets of the club no. The PLC owns the assets.

He may hold fixed and floating charges over those assets in the event the club goes bust. That’s a usual requirement for any lender. But that certainly wouldn’t benefit him unless the club went bust, and he’s never shown any appetite to take the club under financially. Even then, he would be behind chief creditors in the pecking order such as HMRC

Quoted from Fillipe Noche

Oh my word that is hysterical

Do you know you are talking about a man with a high net worth in excess of £50 million

And you are suggesting he is motivated by free tickets and car parking spaces 😂😂😂

Do you know how funny that sounds 😂😂😂

It’s a shame his moral worth is so much lower than his net worth

Quoted from Fillipe Noche

Spot on that mate, and maybe even a bit conservative.

Answer me this if you can also. Whilst the accounts show loan repayments at various stages, do they detail those lump sum repayments as being repaid to John Fenty?

Did Mike Parker and the Mullins provide loans to the business too? If so could all or some of those repayments detailed in the accounts be repayments to them? Genuinely don’t know the answer to that question. But it’s probably wrong to assume that any loan repayments paid at any stage were money paid back to John Fenty. I’m happy to have this aspect clarified though

I haven’t looked at the accounts before replying, but from memory the only loans in place are from Fenty, whereas the support from Parker and Mullen were via shares (and Mullen also contributing towards OP). As such, I believe those Director loan repayments have gone to Fenty.

Quoted from Fillipe Noche

Spot on that mate, and maybe even a bit conservative.

Answer me this if you can also. Whilst the accounts show loan repayments at various stages, do they detail those lump sum repayments as being repaid to John Fenty?

Did Mike Parker and the Mullins provide loans to the business too? If so could all or some of those repayments detailed in the accounts be repayments to them? Genuinely don’t know the answer to that question. But it’s probably wrong to assume that any loan repayments paid at any stage were money paid back to John Fenty. I’m happy to have this aspect clarified though

Now you’re just being obtuse John.

Parker did nor make a loan. He bought the shares as you well know. Millin leant a relatively small amount which was paid back when he left the board.

Here’s a question for you El Noche:

How much of the loans were from Fenty owned companies and therefore could avoid on tax liabilities? That could save far more than any amount of interest.

Ok after an initial post and 23 responses, we seem to have

1. Fenty is still owed £1.5 mill
2. If he had charged 4.5% interest he would have earned £670k or so which he has waived.
3. The overall debt which peaked at well over £2 million has been paid off in part.

Cutting to the chase if the consortium agree to pay the £1.5 million what’s the gripe from fenty?
The fans and consortium are apparently ok to ignore all the money Fenty has wasted over the years and the £200,000 of free shares he seems to have magically acquired from Mike Parker.so long as it gets rid of him.

John and Fillipe, just sign the takeover papers and stop whinging.

Quoted from blundellpork

I haven’t looked at the accounts before replying, but from memory the only loans in place are from Fenty, whereas the support from Parker and Mullen were via shares (and Mullen also contributing towards OP). As such, I believe those Director loan repayments have gone to Fenty.

Fair enough and I suspect you may be right. Be nice to know though

Your little conservative calculation is quite revealing though.

I wonder if any other potential owner over the years, Mike Parker and all, would have been prepared to forgo that amount of interest income had they have hung around as long as Fenty has

People throw away the term too loosely that there wouldn’t be a Grimsby Town now if it wasn’t for Fenty. That quick calculation of zero interest charges alone put it all into a bit of perspective

When you think about it, when it comes to new owners we are actually looking for someone, or a consortium that are prepared to

A: buy the majority shareholders

B: put in £1.5 million of loans over the next three years, without expecting any capital sum repayments unless the business can afford it. And will not charge us a penny in interest.

If that is what they are willing to do, then that’s great. Welcome aboard.

That makes us just stand still though and maintains the current financial status quo. Is there anything else that they are prepared to bring to the table to take us forward. Because of they don’t, and if we don’t move any further forward, then there’s gonna be a lot of fickle keyboard warriors quickly giving them the same sort of treatment that they are giving John Fenty and the present board of directors

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Here’s a question for you El Noche:

How much of the loans were from Fenty owned companies and therefore could avoid on tax liabilities? That could save far more than any amount of interest.

You tell me ?

Quoted from IlkleyMariner

Ok after an initial post and 23 responses, we seem to have

1. Fenty is still owed £1.5 mill
2. If he had charged 4.5% interest he would have earned £670k or so which he has waived.
3. The overall debt which peaked at well over £2 million has been paid off in part.

Cutting to the chase if the consortium agree to pay the £1.5 million what’s the gripe from fenty?
The fans and consortium are apparently ok to ignore all the money Fenty has wasted over the years and the £200,000 of free shares he seems to have magically acquired from Mike Parker.so long as it gets rid of him.

John and Fillipe, just sign the takeover papers and stop whinging.

Depends

Do you want John to sign off on this if the consortium are going to expect regular monthly repayments with 5% interest?

Quoted from Fillipe Noche

You tell me ?

*cough* Employee Benefit Trust *cough*

Quoted from Fillipe Noche

Oh my word that is hysterical

Do you know you are talking about a man with a high net worth in excess of £50 million

And you are suggesting he is motivated by free tickets and car parking spaces 😂😂😂

Do you know how funny that sounds 😂😂😂

So if he has a net worth of over £50m* why did he need to wheedle £200k worth of shares from the Trust? Why doesn’t he just give them back now? If he is supposedly above taking benefits like free tickets and parking.

If he gave the shares back, that’d save the consortium £200k which they can put aside for underwriting an overdraft. If you, sorry, he was acting in the best interest of the club, and wanted to go  he would do that.

* by the way what’s your source for his net worth?

Clearly this Buenas Noche character is just part of the PR campaign by Fenty for when he pulls out of the deal. He’s waving that ‘no proof of funds’ thing again and probably building up got a claim got interest payments too.

I’m happy to have egg on my face about this, but I reckon Fenty will pull out of the sale.

Quoted from blundellpork

To answer question 2, assuming a consistent loan of £1.5m, at a consistent 4.5% interest cost (noting base has moved between 0.1 and 0.75% over the last decade), the cost over a 10 year period would be £675,000.

To then answer question 1, there will have been some years that our accounts show this could have been serviced, and some where it couldn’t. As has been posted many times, c £800k has been repaid in recent years which shows that over time they interest could have been serviced. However, at commercial lending rates, less of the capital sum would have been paid down.

How the debt has built and whether it was right have been done to death, but the interest savings from the benign loans vs those incurred commercially would not be insignificant.

Thank you for sharing that and although interesting, It didn't start at 1.5 million it has built up to that over 20 years, please do the calculations based on yearly accounts of how much had been added in each year, £200k will more than cover that and interest rates can be done a lot cheaper than 4.5 if you shopped around.

All this talk about it being “our club” is tragic - for at least two of the three involved in the consortium it’s THEIR club too. They just have the means & willingness to clear out the dead wood & run it in a way they see fit.

What is their motivation? Maybe just wanting to see the back of Fenty & his gang of failures who have proven, without question, that they are SHIITT. They’re not up to the job & Fenty has said plenty of times how much he wants out. I imagine if most on here won the euromillions then Fenty would be sent packing too.

Quoted from Knut Anders Fosters Voles

They can be written-off though can’t they, Philip / Stephen?

If the loan to the company is written-off the company will have a non-trading loan relationship credit equal to the amount written off.

JSF will crystalise a capital loss equal to the amount of the loan written off. This will be available to set off against capital gains arising in the year of write-off or in subsequent years.

You don’t seem to have responded to this one Philip / Stephen? You are probably out of touch with NTLR rules and Weaver Root is probably shut today...

Quoted from ska face

All this talk about it being “our club” is tragic - for at least two of the three involved in the consortium it’s THEIR club too. They just have the means & willingness to clear out the dead wood & run it in a way they see fit.

What is their motivation? Maybe just wanting to see the back of Fenty & his gang of failures who have proven, without question, that they are SHIITT. They’re not up to the job & Fenty has said plenty of times how much he wants out. I imagine if most on here won the euromillions then Fenty would be sent packing too.

This and well said Ska.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

So if he has a net worth of over £50m* why did he need to wheedle £200k worth of shares from the Trust? Why doesn’t he just give them back now? If he is supposedly above taking benefits like free tickets and parking.

If he gave the shares back, that’d save the consortium £200k which they can put aside for underwriting an overdraft. If you, sorry, he was acting in the best interest of the club, and wanted to go  he would do that.

* by the way what’s your source for his net worth?

Question for anyone that is a member of the Mariners Trust committee

If John Fenty gave you £200,000 worth of shares, how would you finance your HMRC tax bill for receiving a gift of shares and a capital gain? Bucket collection?

Would you accept the return of those shares? Or because you cannot afford to pay the tax on the gift of those shares, would you refuse them?

Did John Fenty actually help the Mariners Trust out in accepting those shares before the Mariners Trust became liable for the tax on the gift from Mike Parker ?

Quoted from Fillipe Noche

Question for anyone that is a member of the Mariners Trust committee

If John Fenty gave you £200,000 worth of shares, how would you finance your HMRC tax bill for receiving a gift of shares and a capital gain? Bucket collection?

If Fenty was a reasonable man he would divorce his wife, marry Dave Roberts and the ‘gift’ would be a spousal transfer

Quoted from Fillipe Noche

Question for anyone that is a member of the Mariners Trust committee

If John Fenty gave you £200,000 worth of shares, how would you finance your HMRC tax bill for receiving a gift of shares and a capital gain? Bucket collection?

Which begs the question, what was the actual reason why the Trust’s shares were transferred to Fenty?

Was it coercive?

Who advised the Trust / Fenty? Weaver Root? For both ‘sides’?

Quoted from Marinerz93

Thank you for sharing that and although interesting, It didn't start at 1.5 million it has built up to that over 20 years, please do the calculations based on yearly accounts of how much had been added in each year, £200k will more than cover that and interest rates can be done a lot cheaper than 4.5 if you shopped around.

I think you need to get your facts right

Quoted from Fillipe Noche

Question for anyone that is a member of the Mariners Trust committee

If John Fenty gave you £200,000 worth of shares, how would you finance your HMRC tax bill for receiving a gift of shares and a capital gain?

Is that his reason for not giving them back? Really?! Mike Parker didn’t feel the need to hold back on the grounds the trust might have incurred a tax liability when he gave them £500,000 worth of shares.

Supplementary question for you. If you were concerned at the time that ‘control would lie outside the boardroom’ why didn’t you just invite the Trust into the board? That would have been quite simple.

Why instead did you feel the need to threaten to sell our star player if you didn’t get your way?

Quoted from Knut Anders Fosters Voles

If Fenty was a reasonable man he would divorce his wife, marry Dave Roberts and the ‘gift’ would be a spousal transfer

You mean that didn't happen, I thought Dave Roberts was Russian, what was that about then.

Quoted from Knut Anders Fosters Voles

Which begs the question, what was the actual reason why the Trust’s shares were transferred to Fenty?

Was it coercive?

Who advised the Trust / Fenty? Weaver Root? For both ‘sides’?

Probably because Fenty helped the Trust out quickly in order that they weren’t liable for a whopping great HMRC capital gains bill for receiving the gift of shares from Mike Parker

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Is that his reason for not giving them back? Really?! Mike Parker didn’t feel the need to hold back on the grounds the trust might have incurred a tax liability when he gave them £500,000 worth of shares.

Supplementary question for you. If you were concerned at the time that ‘control would lie outside the boardroom’ why didn’t you just invite the Trust into the board? That would have been quite simple.

Why instead did you feel the need to threaten to sell our star player if you didn’t get your way?

Why are you talking to me as though I’m John Fenty?

That’s really tickled me pink 😂😂

Not sure this post is getting anywhere

Quoted from Fillipe Noche

Why are you talking to me as though I’m John Fenty?

That’s really tickled me pink 😂😂

Why don’t you answer the questions, whatever your name is. You know. Just in your role of Devil’s Advocate.

Anyone had the intelligence yet to calculate the gift of Trust shares from Mike Parker over to John Fenty. To deduct that from the total Mike Parker share gift. Then work out how many shares that left the trust with.

Then reconcile that with any HMRC capital gain tax thresholds ?

Might be something in it 😉

Quoted from Fillipe Noche

Depends

Do you want John to sign off on this if the consortium are going to expect regular monthly repayments with 5% interest?

If it means Fenty has gone from this club then it’s a small price to pay. We heard all about the unavailability of a rainy day fund from the Consortium first time around and what have we witnessed when it was required?

A disaster both on and off the field and the simple fact is the majority of fans want Fenty gone and if that requires us fans forking out a bit more to support the club I believe that will be fine with the majority of fans as well. If JF is of the opinion this will blow over and he can retain his control of the club and continue as if nothing has happened I think he will be in for a rude awakening.

Quoted from IlkleyMariner

Not sure this post is getting anywhere

Probably right ilkely. Same old team Fenty avoiding questions.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Why don’t you answer the questions, whatever your name is. You know. Just in your role of Devil’s Advocate.

I can’t answer questions I don’t know the answer to. I think you might now be confusing me with Lloyd Griffiths

Quoted from Fillipe Noche

Probably because Fenty helped the Trust out quickly in order that they weren’t liable for a whopping great HMRC capital gains bill for receiving the gift of shares from Mike Parker

Quite clearly this fan base has proved time and again it can substantial funds whenever it chooses too why would this be any different.

Quoted from Swansea_Mariner

Quite clearly this fan base has proved time and again it can substantial funds whenever it chooses too why would this be any different.

Ah a further gift for HMRC to look into

Quoted from Fillipe Noche

Oh my word that is hysterical

Do you know you are talking about a man with a high net worth in excess of £50 million

And you are suggesting he is motivated by free tickets and car parking spaces 😂😂😂

Do you know how funny that sounds 😂😂😂

So what does motive JF? In your expert opinion when it comes to the progression of our Football Club what motives the current administration?

Quoted from Fillipe Noche

I can’t answer questions I don’t know the answer to. I think you might now be confusing me with Lloyd Griffiths

Your imagination must have taken a holiday  since you started this thread then! You started it by saying that you were posing the question as Devil’s Advicate. Then why can’t you answer a question as Devil’s Advocate?

Seems to me you are out of ideas. Like your leader (if you are not Fenty himself).

So now you're actively deriding the fund raising efforts of fans that underpinned the club at the start of this season and operation promotion, are you actually a fan?

Quoted from Fillipe Noche

Oh my word that is hysterical

Do you know you are talking about a man with a high net worth in excess of £50 million

And you are suggesting he is motivated by free tickets and car parking spaces 😂😂😂

Do you know how funny that sounds 😂😂😂

Worth is one thing what someone will actually pay for something is another, anyway worth excess 50 million and saddles the club with loans, surely a man of such magnificent wealth should be gifting the pocket change and not being so tight fisted!!!

Quoted from Marinerz93

Thank you for sharing that and although interesting, It didn't start at 1.5 million it has built up to that over 20 years, please do the calculations based on yearly accounts of how much had been added in each year, £200k will more than cover that and interest rates can be done a lot cheaper than 4.5 if you shopped around.

It was intended as a simple calculation to arrive at a ballpark figure. Whether the end result is 500k or 2m is immaterial really as it is simply what if’s and maybe’s. As someone with many years experience in the finance sector, I doubt a league 2/ conference club could borrow at rates materially better than 4.5%.

Have you ever thought alternatively how a man  who you state purportedly has net assets of £50 million can let his reputation be traduced in every corner of the world  where a Grimbarian lives for the sake of a couple hundred thousand pounds. This is not only his reputation but the Fenty legacy for generations to come.

Quoted from Fillipe Noche

Ah a further gift for HMRC to look into

Not really.

Mike Parker or AN Other could just have claimed Holdover / Gift Relief on the transfer of the shares.

The Trust would then have a potential Chargeable Gain but if they kept the shares ad finitum the gain wouldn’t have crystallised.

New owners wouldn’t have to buy (or be gifted) the shares from the Trust. The Trust could just keep that small shareholding.

Instead JSF just skims off another £200k of free benefits from the Club, either due to self interest or poor professional advice. Maybe that was the Root of the problem.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Your imagination must have taken a holiday  since you started this thread then! You started it by saying that you were posing the question as Devil’s Advicate. Then why can’t you answer a question as Devil’s Advocate?

Seems to me you are out of ideas. Like your leader (if you are not Fenty himself).

If this is Fenty someone else is pressing the keys

Quoted from blundellpork

It was intended as a simple calculation to arrive at a ballpark figure. Whether the end result is 500k or 2m is immaterial really as it is simply what if’s and maybe’s. As someone with many years experience in the finance sector, I doubt a league 2/ conference club could borrow at rates materially better than 4.5%.

I appreciate what you have done, one way to be financed is if they were to remortgage BP what would the interest rates over the last decades, be bearing in mind they have been well below 4.5%

Also why loans, why not shares, Mike Parker put his agreed investment in shares so why did Fenty opt for loans as this was the cause of the fall out as it made MP have more shares than Fenty which meant article 9 was triggered, was this an over sight by Fenty or a means to force MP to buy Fenty's shares and as MP was a wealthy man force him to pay up the benign loan, is that why MP gifted £500k worth of shares to the trust and was never seen again. Not a financial wizard but it all seemed engineered at the time.

Quoted from Swansea_Mariner

So now you're actively deriding the fund raising efforts of fans that underpinned the club at the start of this season and operation promotion, are you actually a fan?

No I’m not. The efforts of our fan base to raise money are truly incredible, me included.

What I’m doing is simply pointing out that if we gift income, then the receiver of that gift may well be subject to taxation  on that income

Benign loans, business loans, ineptitude funding (my preference), directors loans, whatever euphemism you want to use, the reality is that there's no alternative narrative to the fact that they were built up due to John's poor running of the football club. Had a little more money been proactively invested in the 2006-10 period instead of constantly cycling between penny-pinching and wasteful January panic buys and manager sackings, we'd have never ended up in non-league and the "loans" wouldn't have spiralled by over a million quid. I'm not going to thank him for covering his own failings and then putting it on the balance sheet as a liability for the club.

Who takes over a lower league football club, one that gets relegated to non-league under their stewardship, and reasonably expects to come out of it even? If you truly care John, take responsibility, swallow your pride, take pennies in the pound on your shares and move on.

Quoted from blundellpork

It was intended as a simple calculation to arrive at a ballpark figure. Whether the end result is 500k or 2m is immaterial really as it is simply what if’s and maybe’s. As someone with many years experience in the finance sector, I doubt a league 2/ conference club could borrow at rates materially better than 4.5%.

Agreed.

I doubt the club could borrow money from a financial institution at all.

Wasn’t it Lincoln City whose bank told them very clearly that they needed to find alternative lending ?

Strange transformation from Devil’s Advocate to someone well in the know during this thread. Think someone has let their cover slip.

Quoted from Fillipe Noche

I’m just going to play the Devils Adviocat for a bit.

Benign loans is an interesting term that comes up time and again in regards to the money that John Fenty has loaned to Grimsby Town Football Club.

Benign loans is certainly not a term that is used in the world of commercial lending. It appears to be a term John himself used in respect of the money he is loaning to the club, not his share purchases.

It got me thinking as I’ve had a wee bit of commercial borrowing experience in business myself.

First of all, I guess that the more intelligent amongst us probably realise that high street banks and commercial lenders would never realistically lend these sums of money to Town. We just aren’t a viable proposition, with no security either.

So, John Fenty has stood in and took the place of commercial lenders that wouldn’t touch a football club like ours with a barge pole. He has done so out of his own pocket, and he’s called them benign loans.

Benign in terms of no pressure to pay off any of the capital sum whilst he is still involved at the club. You don’t get that privilege when taking out a commercial business loan. You are expected to reduce the capital sum outstanding every single month.

Benign in terms of John’s agreement to not charge a single penny in interest. You certainly don’t ever get commercial loans at zero % interest. Can you image asking a bank to give you a loan with no repayments for god knows how many years and at zero interest?

Now I know that I’m going to be accused yet again as being pro board. I’m not, infact I’m fairly chilled about it. As I’ve said elsewhere, it doesn’t matter to me if we get new owners or not, just as long as they can do financially, at the very minimum, that what John Fenty has done.

So my questions are this,

1: If John hadn’t made these loans what he calls benign, then could Grimsby Town FC have been able to keep up with the monthly repayments?

2: What sum of money has Grimsby Town Football Club saved in interest charges on the huge capital sum that John Fenty has lent Grimsby Town Football Club at zero %. It must be mega. Especially on what is a sum that has hardly ever reduced significantly.

3: This is the big one. New owners. In paying off John Fenty’s loans, it’s a fair assumption that the loans will still sit on the Grimsby Town FC books, but now owing to you. So my question to the new owners is this. In respect of money you will have to lend to Grimsby Town FC, are you prepared to make these benign too, without monthly capital and interest repayments, where interest is going to be zero %. No pressure to repay whilst your consortium is involved in the club?

Maybe these are questions John Fenty expects to be answered too. Maybe these are the assurances he also seeks to protect the football club he loves.

As I said, just being Devils Advocate

Clearly the history books validate what you describe above.

You’ve actually (conveniently) left out quite a lot of important history relating to John’s impact during his time at the helm.

Personally I wouldn’t be too bothered if we paid interest on the clubs funding under new owners as long as the playing budget gives a new manager a fighting chance and the club moves forward.

If paying interest on loans is what it takes to get rid of this board I’d take the chance.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Strange transformation from Devil’s Advocate to someone well in the know during this thread. Think someone has let their cover slip.

Interesting that Fillipe has only started posting today.
Where has he been all these years? Or could it be someone with a vested interest who is posting under an alias?

Quoted from Fillipe Noche

Wasn’t it Lincoln City whose bank told them very clearly that they needed to find alternative lending ?

Dunno, I’m not the one who has had cosy dinners with Alick Kapikanya and Colin Dodd, former suitors of the Imps.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Strange transformation from Devil’s Advocate to someone well in the know during this thread. Think someone has let their cover slip.

Cover? I can whole heartedly assure you that I am not John Fenty or any other board member. Neither am I having my strings pulled by anyone at the club

I’m quite capable of having an opinion, but I appreciate that sometimes opinions don’t sit easily with people who hold differing opinions

As I’ve said time and again, I would be happy with any new owner that commits to support the club financially as JF has at the very minimum

Quoted from Fillipe Noche

Cover? I can whole heartedly assure you that I am not John Fenty or any other board member. Neither am I having my strings pulled by anyone at the club

I’m quite capable of having an opinion, but I appreciate that sometimes opinions don’t sit easily with people who hold differing opinions

As I’ve said time and again, I would be happy with any new owner that commits to support the club financially as JF has at the very minimum

You’re clearly someone who has access to the accounting records of the Club

Looking at his posts I am convinced that this guy isn’t John Fenty. They are mostly literate and well constructed without any semblance of aggression when not getting his own way.

But it wouldn’t surprise me if it someone, maybe in a snooker room somewhere, is being told what to write and then tweaking it to make it look ‘better’ than the actual words being used.

He (could be a woman for all we know) has stated a couple of times that he is not concerned about who owns the club, in which case he is clearly not a fan of the club. You can’t be a fan of the club without having some sort of concern about who owns the club (even if you are ambivalent to whether it is the consortium, or god forbid, fenty). In which case it likely to be one of his inner circle of trust.

For my part, I have not made much comment on this whole situation. Up until recently I had no ill feeling towards Fenty, and even thought he sometimes got a rough deal, but the last couple of weeks have sucked all my love for the club out of me. I am looking at results shrugging my shoulders. I used to be proud to tell people I support GTFC, I now find it very difficult to feel the same way and that kills me.

The whole reason for this is John Fenty, and I am now at the stage that until he is gone, the love of my life will not be the same.

I know I am not the only one who feels this.

Mr Night (or whatever), please pass on my feelings to your friend/employee/business associate, as he is playing with people’s lives, feelings, emotions. He may not care, but he should. He claims that he is a custodian of the club. He may have even believed this, but he can’t anymore. If he stays he will kill the club. That is not the actions of a custodian.

UTM

Quoted from Knut Anders Fosters Voles

You’re clearly someone who has access to the accounting records of the Club

The accounting records of the club are public record.

But in any event I’ve merely asked the questions and it’s others who have answered them

Quoted from Fillipe Noche

Cover? I can whole heartedly assure you that I am not John Fenty or any other board member. Neither am I having my strings pulled by anyone at the club

I’m quite capable of having an opinion, but I appreciate that sometimes opinions don’t sit easily with people who hold differing opinions

As I’ve said time and again, I would be happy with any new owner that commits to support the club financially as JF has at the very minimum

Whilst I appreciate a different view as that what makes the board so interesting, you however, joined today and every post seems to have financial inside information and is fully bias towards the current regime, at least switch it up a bit Mr Marley or are you a troll.

Fillipe
We have managed without any of your input since 1878 and don’t really need any more of your detective work. Thanks anyway.

Quoted from Fillipe Noche

The accounting records of the club are public record.

But in any event I’ve merely asked the questions and it’s others who have answered them

The reduced filing disclosure of the financial statements is on Companies House.

But I wasn’t talking about the financial statements.

Some of your comments suggest access to the accounting records behind the financial statements.

Quoted from Posh Harry

Looking at his posts I am convinced that this guy isn’t John Fenty. They are mostly literate and well constructed without any semblance of aggression when not getting his own way.

But it wouldn’t surprise me if it someone, maybe in a snooker room somewhere, is being told what to write and then tweaking it to make it look ‘better’ than the actual words being used.

He (could be a woman for all we know) has stated a couple of times that he is not concerned about who owns the club, in which case he is clearly not a fan of the club. You can’t be a fan of the club without having some sort of concern about who owns the club (even if you are ambivalent to whether it is the consortium, or god forbid, fenty). In which case it likely to be one of his inner circle of trust.

For my part, I have not made much comment on this whole situation. Up until recently I had no ill feeling towards Fenty, and even thought he sometimes got a rough deal, but the last couple of weeks have sucked all my love for the club out of me. I am looking at results shrugging my shoulders. I used to be proud to tell people I support GTFC, I now find it very difficult to feel the same way and that kills me.

The whole reason for this is John Fenty, and I am now at the stage that until he is gone, the love of my life will not be the same.

I know I am not the only one who feels this.

Mr Night (or whatever), please pass on my feelings to your friend/employee/business associate, as he is playing with people’s lives, feelings, emotions. He may not care, but he should. He claims that he is a custodian of the club. He may have even believed this, but he can’t anymore. If he stays he will kill the club. That is not the actions of a custodian.

UTM

Posh Hazza

Sorry to disappoint you, but I don’t have any direct or indirect route to pass on your message to Fenty. I’m sorry but I’m just a fan like you pal.

I haven’t said I don’t care who owns the club by the way. I’ve said I don’t care who owns the club as long as they support it financially at minimum in the same way as Fenty has. To have anyone run our small club financially less than it is at present would be financial suicide

Quoted from Fillipe Noche

Posh Hazza

Sorry to disappoint you, but I don’t have any direct or indirect route to pass on your message to Fenty. I’m sorry but I’m just a fan like you pal.

I haven’t said I don’t care who owns the club by the way. I’ve said I don’t care who owns the club as long as they support it financially at minimum in the same way as Fenty has. To have anyone run our small club financially less than it is at present would be financial suicide

Would you support a regime that was being investigated by the Monitoring Officer at NE Lincs Council?

Quoted from Knut Anders Fosters Voles

The reduced filing disclosure of the financial statements is on Companies House.

But I wasn’t talking about the financial statements.

Some of your comments suggest access to the accounting records behind the financial statements.

Be specific please? Where have I said anything at all that would require access to the accounting records?

You’ll be suggesting I’m Steve Wraith next 😂😂

Quoted from Fillipe Noche

No I’m not. The efforts of our fan base to raise money are truly incredible, me included.

What I’m doing is simply pointing out that if we gift income, then the receiver of that gift may well be subject to taxation  on that income

So what that's self evident, if people want to support the Trust by giving them money to either buy shares or pay any taxes incurred by the gift of shares then that's up to them. It's the same principle as supporting  the club through fundraising.

I have zero doubt that if the Trust had needed to raise money at that time then they could  have.

If you’ve such a head for numbers, maybe try calculating how much money Fenty has cost the club by being, demonstrably, fuccking hopeless at running the club.

Quoted from Fillipe Noche

Be specific please? Where have I said anything at all that would require access to the accounting records?

You’ll be suggesting I’m Steve Wraith next 😂😂

For one you allege that there was an HMRC investigation into the Parker—>Trust—>Fenty share transactions. Only someone on the inside would know that.

If I alleged that I would be sued by Fenty and Day so I am glad you have decided to disclose that yourself.

Unless you were referring to a different investigation that you have knowledge of...

What makes me suspicious that Philip Night must be linked to Fenty, Day or Marley isn't his knowledge of the club accounts but the sneering, condescending tone which suggests he thinks he's better than other town fans. They all seem to be able to nail that one at will.

Quoted from Knut Anders Fosters Voles

Would you support a regime that was being investigated by the Monitoring Officer at NE Lincs Council?

Frankly that doesn’t interest me in the slightest. The only thing that bothers me is football business

Whatever NE Lincs Council was or wasn’t up to with the Alex May geezer is sodomist all to do with the football club

Quoted from Fillipe Noche

Frankly that doesn’t interest me in the slightest. The only thing that bothers me is football business

Whatever NE Lincs Council was or wasn’t up to with the Alex May geezer is sodomist all to do with the football club

Haha. You are Philip Day!!

Quoted from Fillipe Noche

Frankly that doesn’t interest me in the slightest. The only thing that bothers me is football business

Whatever NE Lincs Council was or wasn’t up to with the Alex May geezer is sodomist all to do with the football club

But he was attending games at the football club while we weren’t 🤔

Quoted from Fillipe Noche

Frankly that doesn’t interest me in the slightest. The only thing that bothers me is football business

Whatever NE Lincs Council was or wasn’t up to with the Alex May geezer is sodomist all to do with the football club

So you'll be appalled that a convicted career criminal was about to become a major shareholder presumably?