Football support v general public

Some things I’ve noticed over the weekend :

Flares: being let off at Glastonbury but no cops/rentacop wading in to get them

Pi55ed at games: watched the rugby league on Friday and there was a bloke smashed out of his head (couldn’t stand) the stewards, fair play to them, were trying to help him. Not being heavy handed

Standing: at the cricket, loads of people standing and singing but not one of them being told to sit down

Drugs: I was at the Cheltenham festival In 2018 and ‘lads’ were snorting off any surface (even the floor) they could. Police and stewards turned a blind eye

Always treated like the scum of the earth

Leaked footage from a recent Nottinghamshire police training exercise appears to show officers preparing for the arrival of the Town faithful on 12th August.

https://youtu.be/OF8TSHN-JDA

Quoted from WOZOFGRIMSBY

Some things I’ve noticed over the weekend :

Flares: being let off at Glastonbury but no cops/rentacop wading in to get them

Pi55ed at games: watched the rugby league on Friday and there was a bloke smashed out of his head (couldn’t stand) the stewards, fair play to them, were trying to help him. Not being heavy handed

Standing: at the cricket, loads of people standing and singing but not one of them being told to sit down

Drugs: I was at the Cheltenham festival In 2018 and ‘lads’ were snorting off any surface (even the floor) they could. Police and stewards turned a blind eye

Always treated like the scum of the earth

You should read this book -

[img]https://i.postimg.cc/Vk2nqMDF/IMG-9354.jpg[/img]

I’d lend you it but I think it’s stored in the mother-in-law’s spare room, and I aren’t going round there.

Quoted from ska face

You should read this book -

[img]https://i.postimg.cc/Vk2nqMDF/IMG-9354.jpg[/img]

I’d lend you it but I think it’s stored in the mother-in-law’s spare room, and I aren’t going round there.

Can you drop it in when we’re over next week 😂

I think we have to look at a wider picture and also take into consideration that class and status to some degree most definitely plays a part in the representation of sport and what surrounds them.

Whatever any other sport may claim, football is the biggest and most watched. Statistically, you’re gonna attack morons and rightly so, they’re dealt with.

The bigger issue is the unnecessary persecution, mythology and flimsy at best alleged intelligence that factors into policing and crowd control at football.

You mention flares/smoke bombs. Two very different things with two very different purposes and effects but they’re lumped together. We’re told people die from them, it’s not true. You’re as likely to die falling over a seat at BP and banging your head. If people died from smoke bombs for instance, every weekend across Europe there’d be deaths, there isn’t. However, as we saw with Brexit, the election, Covid to some degree, people will believe anything.

Cricket, a sport that, for many is an excuse for day drinking, almost encouraged, has its fair share of idiots and the likes but the approach is much more pragmatic and sensible.

Rugby, ah yes, the sport everyone seems to place on high regard…union, a middle class sport, football could learn a lot, all that balderdash. Bullshit, it has its issues. We’ll ignore the blatant cheating scandals and the financial mismanagement, that’s only a football problem apparently and we’ll give it the whole ‘player by gentleman’ bullshit.

A close friend had the displeasure of attending a game at Twickenham, it kicked off in the pub between some slip on wearing, bitter drinking Hoorah Henry’s. He expected old bill to barge in, Nick em and that would be the end of their day…only that didn’t happen and they were simply sent in different directions.

Remember the massive brawls at race meetings? How many banning orders?

There’s a double standard, and whilst I want idiots and bigots banned, the way football is portrayed, policed and managed is horrific.

Quoted from aldi_01

There’s a double standard, and whilst I want idiots and bigots banned, the way football is portrayed, policed and managed is horrific.

Some valid points but I also feel more people follow/ attend football than other sports which means sometimes more trouble.

There have been cases where known football teams have a core element of hooligans  who have no interest in football but just see it as a excuse to have a scrap with rival fans.

Quoted from Rick12

Some valid points but I also feel more people follow/ attend football than other sports which means sometimes more trouble.

There have been cases where known football teams have a core element of hooligans  who have no interest in football but just see it as a excuse to have a scrap with rival fans.

Reminds me of the old adage:

‘ I went to watch a fight the other day and a game of ice hockey broke out’

Quoted from WOZOFGRIMSBY

Reminds me of the old adage:

‘ I went to watch a fight the other day and a game of ice hockey broke out’

Just a shame some people can't watch a game without the need to resort to violence. When you see violence in football be it outside or in the ground isn't nice to see eg busted up noses and the like  .

There have been cases of people in respected jobs during the week eg solicitors turning into a savage at the weekend organising and participating in football violence .

Quoted from aldi_01

I think we have to look at a wider picture and also take into consideration that class and status to some degree most definitely plays a part in the representation of sport and what surrounds them.

Whatever any other sport may claim, football is the biggest and most watched. Statistically, you’re gonna attack morons and rightly so, they’re dealt with.

The bigger issue is the unnecessary persecution, mythology and flimsy at best alleged intelligence that factors into policing and crowd control at football.

You mention flares/smoke bombs. Two very different things with two very different purposes and effects but they’re lumped together. We’re told people die from them, it’s not true. You’re as likely to die falling over a seat at BP and banging your head. If people died from smoke bombs for instance, every weekend across Europe there’d be deaths, there isn’t. However, as we saw with Brexit, the election, Covid to some degree, people will believe anything.

Cricket, a sport that, for many is an excuse for day drinking, almost encouraged, has its fair share of idiots and the likes but the approach is much more pragmatic and sensible.

Rugby, ah yes, the sport everyone seems to place on high regard…union, a middle class sport, football could learn a lot, all that balderdash. Bullshit, it has its issues. We’ll ignore the blatant cheating scandals and the financial mismanagement, that’s only a football problem apparently and we’ll give it the whole ‘player by gentleman’ bullshit.

A close friend had the displeasure of attending a game at Twickenham, it kicked off in the pub between some slip on wearing, bitter drinking Hoorah Henry’s. He expected old bill to barge in, Nick em and that would be the end of their day…only that didn’t happen and they were simply sent in different directions.

Remember the massive brawls at race meetings? How many banning orders?

There’s a double standard, and whilst I want idiots and bigots banned, the way football is portrayed, policed and managed is horrific.

It's interesting that you rail against bigots and morons but your 'facts' are not entirely correct and your language is far from balanced:

A supporter was killed watching a Wales (football) international about 5 years ago in Cardiff - I can only vaguely recall the circumstances but I believe a 'rocket' of some type was shot across a stand and it hit a spectator who subsequently died from his injuries. Your assertion that 'we're told people die from them, it's not true' is incorrect.

Describing a rugby union supporter as a 'slip on wearing, bitter drinking, Hoorah Henry' is as prejudiced and biased as describing a football supporter as a skinheaded, lager drinking lout.

I agree with the basic tenet of your argument but better understanding and more moderation works both ways.

Quoted from BobbyCummingsTackle

It's interesting that you rail against bigots and morons but your 'facts' are not entirely correct and your language is far from balanced:

A supporter was killed watching a Wales (football) international about 5 years ago in Cardiff - I can only vaguely recall the circumstances but I believe a 'rocket' of some type was shot across a stand and it hit a spectator who subsequently died from his injuries. Your assertion that 'we're told people die from them, it's not true' is incorrect.

Describing a rugby union supporter as a 'slip on wearing, bitter drinking, Hoorah Henry' is as prejudiced and biased as describing a football supporter as a skinheaded, lager drinking lout.

I agree with the basic tenet of your argument but better understanding and more moderation works both ways.

About 5 years ago? It was 1993.

https://www.independent.co.uk/.....g-match-1505057.html

Strange how time flies, innit.

Quoted from Poojah

About 5 years ago? It was 1993.

https://www.independent.co.uk/.....g-match-1505057.html

Strange how time flies, innit.

Bloody hell!

I did say that I couldn't quite recall the circumstances. Because it was 30 years ago!!

Regarding setting off of flares at games.

I have a collapsed lung so have breathing difficulties and I am not on my own with many people who would be effected by the smoke.

I think F1 have the biggest problem with flares as the Dutch let dozens of them off at the races but no one stops them.

So that's another sport I will watch on TV instead of going to see a race live.

Verstappen ( spelling ? ).  Always wins anyway.

Quoted from aldi_01

I think we have to look at a wider picture and also take into consideration that class and status to some degree most definitely plays a part in the representation of sport and what surrounds them.

Whatever any other sport may claim, football is the biggest and most watched. Statistically, you’re gonna attack morons and rightly so, they’re dealt with.

The bigger issue is the unnecessary persecution, mythology and flimsy at best alleged intelligence that factors into policing and crowd control at football.

You mention flares/smoke bombs. Two very different things with two very different purposes and effects but they’re lumped together. We’re told people die from them, it’s not true. You’re as likely to die falling over a seat at BP and banging your head. If people died from smoke bombs for instance, every weekend across Europe there’d be deaths, there isn’t. However, as we saw with Brexit, the election, Covid to some degree, people will believe anything.

Cricket, a sport that, for many is an excuse for day drinking, almost encouraged, has its fair share of idiots and the likes but the approach is much more pragmatic and sensible.

Rugby, ah yes, the sport everyone seems to place on high regard…union, a middle class sport, football could learn a lot, all that balderdash. Bullshit, it has its issues. We’ll ignore the blatant cheating scandals and the financial mismanagement, that’s only a football problem apparently and we’ll give it the whole ‘player by gentleman’ bullshit.

A close friend had the displeasure of attending a game at Twickenham, it kicked off in the pub between some slip on wearing, bitter drinking Hoorah Henry’s. He expected old bill to barge in, Nick em and that would be the end of their day…only that didn’t happen and they were simply sent in different directions.

Remember the massive brawls at race meetings? How many banning orders?

There’s a double standard, and whilst I want idiots and bigots banned, the way football is portrayed, policed and managed is horrific.

I’ve been to a couple of the Rugby 7s in Dubai and each time there has been loads of fights and other public disorder .
People just seem to write that off has gentleman letting off steam and boys being boys etc.
If the police stopped with their massive police escorts and grouping visiting fans together then you would get groups of hundreds of fans walking to the ground from stations and pubs etc in a tribal way.

The fans that actually do want to fight will always find away but my memory of the 80s and 90s was that the actual hard core hooligans tended to get on with it amongst themselves , these days you have 100s of mongs dressed like hooligans and mouthing off but wouldn’t dare open their mouths if they was left to make their own way to the ground unescorted

Completely agree with lots of the general comments about how football fans are viewed and treated by authorities. It is steeped in classism and we definitely receive a different response to any issues and more pre-imposed restrictions than other sports/events.

I used to support a young person with autism who lived in York (I live in Leeds) who attended college in Leeds. Some years previous he'd got the hang of taking the train and I'd meet him at Leeds station... except on Race days (which I'd take note of), where I would go up to York and travel back with him (and same for the return leg). It was horrendous, fights, folks puking everywhere, open coke use, aggression, harassment... this lad used to chat to himself a fair bit, or mutter stuff whilst playing his gameboy, so would have been a potential target.

Never once heard of race goers being mass-escorted to events by police or races kicking off at at 9am by police order (or whatever their equivalent of our early kick offs would be, I know sod all about horse racing).

Just on a subject of flares, generally I think comparing flares at Glasto (big wide open air space) to in stands is slightly different - and in some circumstances, footy fans don't help themselves: at Notts County away last season, some bright spark let off a flare inside the concourse where everyone was gathered before kickoff, very enclosed space. That is definitely dangerous for anyone with breathing problems, not to mention simply unpleasant for everyone else (I don't want to drink a pint breathing in thick black smoke).

Quoted from Rick12

Just a shame some people can't watch a game without the need to resort to violence. When you see violence in football be it outside or in the ground isn't nice to see eg busted up noses and the like  .

There have been cases of people in respected jobs during the week eg solicitors turning into a savage at the weekend organising and participating in football violence .

Yeah, the Firm was a great film 🙃

Quoted from coddy60

Yeah, the Firm was a great film 🙃

I read Danny Dyers autobiography just recently and he stated it was the football factory that was one of his first real success story's as a actor which brought him some good money.

Quoted from MarinerWY

Completely agree with lots of the general comments about how football fans are viewed and treated by authorities. It is steeped in classism and we definitely receive a different response to any issues and more pre-imposed restrictions than other sports/events.

I used to support a young person with autism who lived in York (I live in Leeds) who attended college in Leeds. Some years previous he'd got the hang of taking the train and I'd meet him at Leeds station... except on Race days (which I'd take note of), where I would go up to York and travel back with him (and same for the return leg). It was horrendous, fights, folks puking everywhere, open coke use, aggression, harassment... this lad used to chat to himself a fair bit, or mutter stuff whilst playing his gameboy, so would have been a potential target.

Never once heard of race goers being mass-escorted to events by police or races kicking off at at 9am by police order (or whatever their equivalent of our early kick offs would be, I know sod all about horse racing).

Just on a subject of flares, generally I think comparing flares at Glasto (big wide open air space) to in stands is slightly different - and in some circumstances, footy fans don't help themselves: at Notts County away last season, some bright spark let off a flare inside the concourse where everyone was gathered before kickoff, very enclosed space. That is definitely dangerous for anyone with breathing problems, not to mention simply unpleasant for everyone else (I don't want to drink a pint breathing in thick black smoke).

The races thing is always a valid conversation. I happened to be on thr train to Sheffield after we’d played Oldham the other year, at BP. Same day as the St Leger, masses get on at Donnie, most absolutely twatted, lads in shiny suits and plenty of hammered women.

Train gets rowdy, singing and the like. Oldham, who’ve said nothing decide to crack out a chant, suddenly, train guard is down and upon arrival at Sheffield, BTP are smothering thr away fans leaving Sheffield and get on the train to have a word with Oldham…meanwhile an array of drunk up rave goers continuing being leary and swaying all over, kicking tins and the like are not even acknowledged.

Proper odd, sadly though, it’s just become the norm for football, probably not helped by the tourists at the top level who see going to football in the same category as going to the cinema or a show…

Quoted from coddy60

Yeah, the Firm was a great film 🙃

A bit like John and trev in I.D.

coppers by day, undercover painters and decorators by night!

Quoted from aldi_01

I think we have to look at a wider picture and also take into consideration that class and status to some degree most definitely plays a part in the representation of sport and what surrounds them.

Whatever any other sport may claim, football is the biggest and most watched. Statistically, you’re gonna attack morons and rightly so, they’re dealt with.

The bigger issue is the unnecessary persecution, mythology and flimsy at best alleged intelligence that factors into policing and crowd control at football.

You mention flares/smoke bombs. Two very different things with two very different purposes and effects but they’re lumped together. We’re told people die from them, it’s not true. You’re as likely to die falling over a seat at BP and banging your head. If people died from smoke bombs for instance, every weekend across Europe there’d be deaths, there isn’t. However, as we saw with Brexit, the election, Covid to some degree, people will believe anything.

Cricket, a sport that, for many is an excuse for day drinking, almost encouraged, has its fair share of idiots and the likes but the approach is much more pragmatic and sensible.

Rugby, ah yes, the sport everyone seems to place on high regard…union, a middle class sport, football could learn a lot, all that balderdash. Bullshit, it has its issues. We’ll ignore the blatant cheating scandals and the financial mismanagement, that’s only a football problem apparently and we’ll give it the whole ‘player by gentleman’ bullshit.

A close friend had the displeasure of attending a game at Twickenham, it kicked off in the pub between some slip on wearing, bitter drinking Hoorah Henry’s. He expected old bill to barge in, Nick em and that would be the end of their day…only that didn’t happen and they were simply sent in different directions.

Remember the massive brawls at race meetings? How many banning orders?

There’s a double standard, and whilst I want idiots and bigots banned, the way football is portrayed, policed and managed is horrific.

I saw what you did there .Showed you have superior intellect over people whose thoughts differed from yours on COVID and Brexit .🤣🤣🤣

It really irritates me this talk of 'unnecessary persecution'. It's nonsense. I've seen a lot more anti social behaviour at football than at any other sport.

I was at the fifth test at the Ashes at Edgbaston and, sure, the chants are becoming football-esque, but the level of behaviour never degraded to what I've seen at football. I was also at Glastonbury and the behaviour is incomparable.

The culture is completely different in football and there seems to be an anti-establishment, victim attitude developing amongst football fans. There's no doubt football fans can be treated heavily handedly, but surely everyone has seen enough to understand that there's more than a minority justifying it.

Quoted from Mariner93er

It really irritates me this talk of 'unnecessary persecution'. It's nonsense. I've seen a lot more anti social behaviour at football than at any other sport.

I was at the fifth test at the Ashes at Edgbaston and, sure, the chants are becoming football-esque, but the level of behaviour never degraded to what I've seen at football. I was also at Glastonbury and the behaviour is incomparable.

The culture is completely different in football and there seems to be an anti-establishment, victim attitude developing amongst football fans. There's no doubt football fans can be treated heavily handedly, but surely everyone has seen enough to understand that there's more than a minority justifying it.

Lucky for you, but when people who aren’t regular attendees at football can see it, it probably suggests there’s some obvious truths in the matter.

A classic example was at Crawley a while back. Casually having a pint in a quiet ish pub, full of locals having a dinner and so on.

2 o clock rolls around, I go to get two pints around 2:05pm to only have my glass taken from me and my drinks dispensed in a plastic beaker. Naturally, I question this, having also witnessed a local somehow keep their glass, the response ‘football fans go onto plastic at 14:00’

Mind blowing stuff, and there are umpteen examples of confusing and inconsistent policing and security approaches used with football fans, many coming from sensible, every day folk.

Torquay away around ten years ago; I, a 20 something bloke at the time casually stroll through the turnstile, no search, no questions, jobs a good one. Turn around to see the 63 year old man with me, and the middle aged lady stood the other side of him being patted down and searched, the justification being ‘it’s done at random’. Mind blowing really.

Lincoln away many moons ago, having lived in Lincoln, arrive at my local to grab a pint with some Lincoln fans I know and then head off to the match, greeted with ‘home fans and locals only’ from a copper…apparently living in Lincoln for a number of years didn’t make me local, some of their lads even confronted the copper…

So whilst you make a point, that’s fair but don’t dismiss the fact there is a double standard and there is an issue…

Quoted from Mariner93er

It really irritates me this talk of 'unnecessary persecution'. It's nonsense. I've seen a lot more anti social behaviour at football than at any other sport.

I was at the fifth test at the Ashes at Edgbaston and, sure, the chants are becoming football-esque, but the level of behaviour never degraded to what I've seen at football. I was also at Glastonbury and the behaviour is incomparable.

The absolute very worst thing I’ve seen at any football match is a few people getting thumped in the head, and I’d imagine most people would struggle to say they’ve seen anything worse.

At Glastonbury I’ve seen people openly smoking crack and people absolutely paralytic far beyond what I’ve seen at a match, plus all the usual shouting, swearing, anti-social stuff. Most other festivals you’ll have people ritually burning tents and other people’s belongings on a Sunday night. Mass brawls and people getting booted in the head with shítflickers is absolutely par for the course at most big race meetings, along with coke use that would make Tony Montana blush.

Everyone has an anecdote about this or that, but it’s impossible to say that football fans are not subject to excessive policing, draconian laws and treatment which only apply if you are a football fan, and sentencing/punishments far beyond what would be considered reasonable. That’s just a fact.

Quoted from aldi_01

Mind blowing stuff, and there are umpteen examples of confusing and inconsistent policing and security approaches used with football fans, many coming from sensible, every day folk.


So whilst you make a point, that’s fair but don’t dismiss the fact there is a double standard and there is an issue…

On the subject of policing I think thats a valid point. For one thing I wouldn't want to do it. In what can be a high pressure/shift  job where you can be  subject to abuse and even violence making the right decision all the time is a tough one and people like in any walk of life will make mistakes. I often compare it to the army  as well albeit on a  different more acute level where soldiers have had to make a judgement on whether to neutralise a suspected terrorist out in Afghanistan  or hold fire.

I note as well from reading books on the matter police got things wrong back in Italia 1990 . Groups of England fans and many innocent were grouped in mass (targeted as yobos) and targeted by riot police with tear gas and truncheons . Lessons need to be learnt from this which I think they have to some degree although more could still be done .Goes in any job as well.

Sadly from speaking to people abroad the actions of a small percentage(I feel) in the 1980s when hooliganism was more rife still affects  some peoples judgment of English football fans.

And while everyone is bemoaning the treatment of football fans on this thread another thread is showing pictures and video of crowd trouble in the 80s between Town and Stoke.

Maybe there's a connection?

Quoted from BobbyCummingsTackle

And while everyone is bemoaning the treatment of football fans on this thread another thread is showing pictures and video of crowd trouble in the 80s between Town and Stoke.

Maybe there's a connection?

Maybe some things change over the course of 30-40 years?

Quoted from BobbyCummingsTackle

And while everyone is bemoaning the treatment of football fans on this thread another thread is showing pictures and video of crowd trouble in the 80s between Town and Stoke.

Maybe there's a connection?

I started both threads and there is no connection. None whatsoever. I started this post after the double standards that there seems to be after watching tv coverage of a few events over the course of the weekend. You are more than welcome to find some correlation between the two but I started the Stoke thread after being sent some photos.

Stoke is one of those games that is still spoken about by many 30 years later. Not glorified or dressed up to show off, but I would think, that it was probably one of the biggest ‘toe to toe’ fights where little old Grimsby didn’t come second best! Were you at the Stoke game? Because, I would suspect that if you were then it would’ve been brought up in many a conversation in the 3 decades that have passed.