I would have thought by now after decades of conflict in this area that the UN could have found a way for peace.
The unfortunate thing is that when you have extremists on one or both sides they won't compromise, which is probably why there is no peace. Then you have the political implications in both countries and the politics from other countries affecting the situation along with religion.
Finally, you have money. As with all wars, somebody is making a lot of money out of the supply of weapons etc. If all countries banned the supply of weapons, and materials to make weapons, to the Israeli's and Palestinians then the supply would dry up. Peace would eventually break out and proper decent meaningful negotiations could take place.
You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
Finally, you have money. As with all wars, somebody is making a lot of money out of the supply of weapons etc. If all countries banned the supply of weapons, and materials to make weapons, to the Israeli's and Palestinians then the supply would dry up. Peace would eventually break out and proper decent meaningful negotiations could take place.
I saw something yesterday with Boris Johnson tweeting the 'UK being deeply concerned by the growing violence and civilian casualties in Israel and Palestine' juxtaposed with a news story headlined 'British arms exports to Israel reach record level.' It's rather similar to the UK giving aid to Yemen whilst selling all sorts of weapons to Saudi Arabia to bomb Yemen.
"Lovelly stuff! not my words but the words of Shakin Stevens."
Skillfully avoiding the fact that religion is the fundamental reason these people are fighting! Weird when you think they all represent the same god anyway.
My original words are:- 'Then you have the political implications in both countries and the politics from other countries affecting the situation along with religion.'
This seems to upset you for some reason so I'll amend them:-
Then you have religious implications, political implications in both countries, and politics from other countries affecting the situation.
I have in no way have ever defended religion as a means to instigate any sort of violence, troubles, conflicts, or wars. In rewriting my words I have put religion first and in no way trying to hide the fact it plays in this or any conflict.
I hope you are now happy with this wording.
You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
Not sure religion is the fundamental reason. One of the major factors for sure, certainly entwined - put Jews and Muslims lived in Palestine long before the creation of the state of Israel, and I'd argue that a two-state solution that respected 1967 boundaries would enable peace. Its the continual infringement on Palestinian land through settlements and the backing of Israel as a geopolitical stronghold in the Middle East by US etc that has as much to answer for as religion does imo
There’s an argument that even the 1967 boundaries represent a theft of Palestinian property in some areas. During the foundation of Israel many Palestinians were forced out of their homes to make way forward Jewish immigrants from Europe. That’s before you even begin to talk about the Occupied Territories and the more recent encroachments.
Through the door there came familiar laughter, I saw your face and heard you call my name. Oh my friend we're older but no wiser, For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
There’s an argument that even the 1967 boundaries represent a theft of Palestinian property in some areas. During the foundation of Israel many Palestinians were forced out of their homes to make way forward Jewish immigrants from Europe. That’s before you even begin to talk about the Occupied Territories and the more recent encroachments.
For sure. I just genuinely think that when 1967 boundaries or even settlements just halted up till 2000 would go a huge way towards peace. Sure there might be the extreme faction still who would still want Israel wiped out but pretty sure I've seen research that suggests most Palestinians would accept a two state solution if settlement building stopped and Gaza was released from its mass imprisonment
Also the treatment of Arab population within Israel is disgusting
For sure. I just genuinely think that when 1967 boundaries or even settlements just halted up till 2000 would go a huge way towards peace. Sure there might be the extreme faction still who would still want Israel wiped out but pretty sure I've seen research that suggests most Palestinians would accept a two state solution if settlement building stopped and Gaza was released from its mass imprisonment
Also the treatment of Arab population within Israel is disgusting
I think there will always be Palestinians who won’t give up, and Israel’s intransigence just stokes the fire. I get the Israelis concern that they are at risk of Palestinian attacks if they ‘give up’ territory, but that’s the consequence of the injustice.
Through the door there came familiar laughter, I saw your face and heard you call my name. Oh my friend we're older but no wiser, For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
No chance of anything like peace when you've got self-serving shits like Netanyahu running the show for his own benefit in Israel. He'll do anything he can to stay in power (helps him wriggle away from various charges of corruption) and either turning a blind eye or actively geeing on the right-wing Zionist groups will never allow things to settle down.
On the other side of the coin, this means that the Iran-dominated Palestinian authority and the militant groups operating in Gaza and the West Bank will also never stand down. With the current leaderships in both countries it's more likely to get worse than better any time soon. Netanyahu by far the main culprit, however.
There’s an argument that even the 1967 boundaries represent a theft of Palestinian property in some areas. During the foundation of Israel many Palestinians were forced out of their homes to make way forward Jewish immigrants from Europe. That’s before you even begin to talk about the Occupied Territories and the more recent encroachments.
It’s been going on for thousands of years I’m sure the Jews were originally there first until the Muslims invaded. I thnk it’s best Israel continue with a ground attack and keep troops there once they’ve wiped out the leaders, like the allies in Germany after the war, this way they can monitor what’s coming in from the terrorist nation of Iran.
Hello Binyamin! Haven’t you got too much on your plate to be posting on football message boards?
Through the door there came familiar laughter, I saw your face and heard you call my name. Oh my friend we're older but no wiser, For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
It’s been going on for thousands of years I’m sure the Jews were originally there first until the Muslims invaded. I thnk it’s best Israel continue with a ground attack and keep troops there once they’ve wiped out the leaders, like the allies in Germany after the war, this way they can monitor what’s coming in from the terrorist nation of Iran.
Actually even the Bible says the Hebrews came from elsewhere to occupy what is now Israel. Abraham came from Ur (modern day Iraq) and the Canaanites were kicked out twice.
Imagine the Welsh coming and kicking you our of your house at gunpoint because 2000 years ago their ancestors farmed the land in what is now England.
Through the door there came familiar laughter, I saw your face and heard you call my name. Oh my friend we're older but no wiser, For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
No chance of anything like peace when you've got self-serving shits like Netanyahu running the show for his own benefit in Israel. He'll do anything he can to stay in power (helps him wriggle away from various charges of corruption) and either turning a blind eye or actively geeing on the right-wing Zionist groups will never allow things to settle down.
On the other side of the coin, this means that the Iran-dominated Palestinian authority and the militant groups operating in Gaza and the West Bank will also never stand down. With the current leaderships in both countries it's more likely to get worse than better any time soon. Netanyahu by far the main culprit, however.
It was nice to read recently in a book on King Hussein of Jordan that him and Yitzhak Rabin got on well and done so much good for peace in the middle east. Iam doubtful but I would like to see a peaceful solution to all of this turmoil that has been going on for so long.
Having been to the middle east myself its a rich melting pot of cultures and religions and its a huge shame to see deaths on both sides especially children dying in this latest round of hostility's.
Through the door there came familiar laughter, I saw your face and heard you call my name. Oh my friend we're older but no wiser, For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
Anyone who Red crossed this care to argue the point?
Through the door there came familiar laughter, I saw your face and heard you call my name. Oh my friend we're older but no wiser, For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
Anyone who Red crossed this care to argue the point?
Thought they wouldn’t.
Through the door there came familiar laughter, I saw your face and heard you call my name. Oh my friend we're older but no wiser, For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
Israel not being aware of anything happening imminently with regards the attack is very odd given the amount they spend on military and intelligence. It’s maybe even bordering on suspicious.
Palestinians are treated like shite-on-a-stick by the Iranians to conduct a proxy war against Israel, and just treated like shite by the Israelis.
If you think about our conflict in N Ireland the circle of violence was broken by the external powers - UK, US and Ireland brokering the peace and young people in the province rejecting the violence. It doesn’t suit Iran for there to be a peaceful settlement nor does it suit Netanyahu who is stoking the fanatics in Israel to stay in power. Israel then points to its Sunni allies, who are also US allies, to support a claim of not being anti-Arab.
I see no prospect of anything like the NI rapprochement with the current regimes in Israel and Iran.
Israel not being aware of anything happening imminently with regards the attack is very odd given the amount they spend on military and intelligence. It’s maybe even bordering on suspicious.
Oooo, you cynic…
'the poor and the needy are selfish and greedy'...well done Mozza
Time to the flatten the Gaza Strip and turn it back into a desert.
Dear Mr H Cod,
I hope you are well and enjoying the warm start to autumn.
Your view on this subject is interesting and not one I agree with. I can now see why your early career false starts in town planning and international diplomacy occurred.
I hope you are well and enjoying the warm start to autumn.
Your view on this subject is interesting and not one I agree with. I can now see why your early career false starts in town planning and international diplomacy occurred.
Truly yours,
KAFV
I’m pleased you that can disagree, feel free to add some real context 🙂
It’s a wet one today. A day for slide tackles on grassy turf.
I’m a little confused how you think ’flattening the Gaza strip’ would help the situation on either a local, regional or global scale?
Endless possibilities, start with a token museum on the Auschwitz scale, throw in a couple of major golf courses, then tart it up with Scandinavian lodges and pods, and then maybe throw in a nature reserve. My personal choice would be a theme park on a Disney scale.
Jeez, even by your standards, that’s crass. Where do all the people who live there (40% of whom are under 14) go?
If I was living in Israel then this would be of no concern to me! My only concern would be Hamaz coming back to kill my family and friends…if we do nothing!
In the words of the great George Bush “we’re going to smoke them out”
That didn’t answer the question did it. Where do the Palestinian families go. Are you saying that humanity has a ranking system, and Israeli children matter more than Palestinian children?
That didn’t answer the question did it. Where do the Palestinian families go. Are you saying that humanity has a ranking system, and Israeli children matter more than Palestinian children?
Maybe ask their Saudi Muslim brothers to let them!
Love to know what you would expect Israel to do? Tell Hamas they’re very naught boys and not to invade again😂 Or how about negotiate some peace talks 😂😂😂
Maybe ask their Saudi Muslim brothers to let them!
Love to know what you would expect Israel to do? Tell Hamas they’re very naught boys and not to invade again😂 Or how about negotiate some peace talks 😂😂😂
Still haven’t answered. Where do civilians in the strip go to save themselves from death? I’m not picking a side. What’s happening in appalling. Civilian human life is being extinguished and they all matter. Answer the question you idiot. Where do human beings, of whatever nation or denomination - most of them children and young people, go to escape this horror and evade pain and death?
Still haven’t answered. Where do civilians in the strip go to save themselves from death? I’m not picking a side. What’s happening in appalling. Civilian human life is being extinguished and they all matter. Answer the question you idiot. Where do human beings, of whatever nation or denomination - most of them children and young people, go to escape this horror and evade pain and death?
I have answered the questions! and you have the check to call me an idiot….. typical keyboard warrior😂 When the Nazi’s were in retreat after the D day landings would you have said job done pull out, because of the significant number of innocent German civilian casualties 🤯
Can you also not converse with opinions you don’t agree with without resorting to abuse! Quite pathetic.
I have answered the questions! and you have the check to call me an idiot….. typical keyboard warrior😂 When the Nazi’s were in retreat after the D day landings would you have said job done pull out, because of the significant number of innocent German civilian casualties 🤯
Can you also not converse with opinions you don’t agree with without resorting to abuse! Quite pathetic.
What a ludicrous and idiotic comparison. You haven’t answered. You don’t even know what you have or haven’t said. Show me the answer. Where do they go?
What a ludicrous and idiotic comparison. You haven’t answered. You don’t even know what you have or haven’t said. Show me the answer. Where do they go?
Trying hard not to lower myself to your level but you’re seriously stupid! Do you actually read my posts? As an Israeli it would be of no concern to me whatsoever. I would just want the area cleared no matter what the costs!
This is all on the terrorists scum Hamas any loss of life is on them! Maybe their all loving religion of peace neighbours can offer them sanctuary 🤔
Right. There we go. Finally spat out your ignorance and racism. What an absolutely deplorable position, seriously flawed, just like usual. You’re not even an Israeli citizen. All of those innocent civilians can burn. You only care about Israel’s children, not all children caught up in this. Humanity has gradations and f*ck those who aren’t on your list. That’s your stance. Once again, you show yourself to be a bigoted utter moron.
I’ve been watching the news since the war started and I’ve never felt more saddened at what I’ve seen this last week, seeing them poor children (both Palestinian and Israeli children) being carried in body bags. No matter what peoples opinions are on who’s to blame etc it’s absolutely heartbreaking.
I’ve been watching the news since the war started and I’ve never felt more saddened at what I’ve seen this last week, seeing them poor children (both Palestinian and Israeli children) being carried in body bags. No matter what peoples opinions are on who’s to blame etc it’s absolutely heartbreaking.
Exactly.
What Hamas did to Jewish civilians was terrorism and there are no words to describe how disgusting their actions were.
Likewise, what Netanyahu and the Likud nutters have done and are doing to Gazan civilians is equally disgusting.
Both sides are committing war crimes and they should be held to account.
Absolutely. Those poor people. I’m a parent and it breaks my heart to see that and imagine how that could somehow be dealt with. Those poor people who lost their loved ones at the hands of the Hamas terrorists, and the same goes for those families who live on the strip and who will see the same retaliatory carnage wipe out their families, children, friends etc. As a marker for humanity, this situation is heartbreaking. All those people, who find themselves a victim of geographical chance, who have to deal with the hell of a conflict in that region. My heart breaks for all those people - Israeli families suffering appalling terrorist atrocities and Palestinian families suffering the retaliatory actions - all of them the same. Human beings who love their children and families and friends….having to deal with that horror. How unimaginably terrible.
There are absolutely no winners in this conflict. The civilians lose on both sides. Hamas obviously look like girl privates, but Israel responding with war crimes makes them look even worse. The Americans and us to a lesser extent throwing weight around angers the Iranians which in turn angers the Russians (who have come out with some very contradictory stuff).
All in all it’s another battle in a World War which has been raging for about 18 months in all but name. The Armenia/Azeri thing is bubbling away in the background and will boil over very shortly. Every despot and major power is feeling emboldened at the minute and unless there is a serious set of talks between all sides eventually it’ll affect Europe in a major way.
Well if you believe what the science people think we could be all in a computer game.
Nothing is real and if we blow yourself up we will be reassigned to another body elsewhere.
What a load of tosh !!!!!!!
Do they mean we have gone through life suffering pain and loss of love ones only to start again in another game.
Nothing to do with what's going on in the middle East but everything is programmed and the end has already been decided because according to them the past / present and future all happen at the same time.
Beam me up Scotty !!!!!!!
I give up
Over 36 years living in Suffolk but always a mariner. 68 Years following the Town
Some have a philosophical view that the universe as we perceive it, could be a simulation, which isn't the same as a game. We could all be part of a massive, indescribably complex computer program so what we experience is actually programmed and not real. One of us just thinking about it would just be part of the program. Not the same as a game, though.
Sounds like a load of tosh to me but it's not absolutely impossible. An infinitessimal chance of it being the 'truth'.
Needless to say, the appalling terrorist acts carried out by Hamas are now being followed up by appalling terrorist acts which will be carried out by the IDF.
I thought this was a good article which shows the way the world currently is (and how it probably always has been):
Right. There we go. Finally spat out your ignorance and racism. What an absolutely deplorable position, seriously flawed, just like usual. You’re not even an Israeli citizen. All of those innocent civilians can burn. You only care about Israel’s children, not all children caught up in this. Humanity has gradations and f*ck those who aren’t on your list. That’s your stance. Once again, you show yourself to be a bigoted utter moron.
Typical lefty sharp object that predictably defaults to accusations of racism! All in order to try ‘pathetically’ to take the moral high ground. You are one sad little lefty.
Correct I’m not an Israeli citizen (the only thing you have correct) I was just trying to offer perspective from the Israeli position to help you understand, but you’re too stupid!
It kills me to see what’s happening to the innocent civilians, and of course especially the children on both sides, despite what you try and twist… you’re absolute scum!
But I will try and help you understand in layman’s terms one more time, so hopefully I can penetrate that thick skull as to why the Palestinian civilians will be killed-
Hamas hide behind civilians, Hamas hide their weapons in civilian areas, and Hamas put their command and control centre’s in hospitals and schools!!!
Gaza MUST be flattened In order to wipe Hamas out, just like in Germany in WWII when the allies had to flatten cities.
There are absolutely no winners in this conflict. The civilians lose on both sides. Hamas obviously look like girl privates, but Israel responding with war crimes makes them look even worse. The Americans and us to a lesser extent throwing weight around angers the Iranians which in turn angers the Russians (who have come out with some very contradictory stuff).
All in all it’s another battle in a World War which has been raging for about 18 months in all but name. The Armenia/Azeri thing is bubbling away in the background and will boil over very shortly. Every despot and major power is feeling emboldened at the minute and unless there is a serious set of talks between all sides eventually it’ll affect Europe in a major way.
I think the Iranian regime is a winner…nice distraction from their brutal suppression of women’s rights. And a nice distraction of the world away from Ukraine as well. Iran and Russia hmm…and where did Hamas get the rockets and guns from?
I’ve been watching the news since the war started and I’ve never felt more saddened at what I’ve seen this last week, seeing them poor children (both Palestinian and Israeli children) being carried in body bags. No matter what peoples opinions are on who’s to blame etc it’s absolutely heartbreaking.
Precisely. Anyone that holds an opinion different to this is a monster.
Some have a philosophical view that the universe as we perceive it, could be a simulation, which isn't the same as a game. We could all be part of a massive, indescribably complex computer program so what we experience is actually programmed and not real. One of us just thinking about it would just be part of the program. Not the same as a game, though.
Sounds like a load of tosh to me but it's not absolutely impossible. An infinitessimal chance of it being the 'truth'.
I did say what a load of tosh mate.
But
Some of the scientist said we could be in a game , either way I can not take that in . It's got to be a long programme the solar system is 13.9 billion years old.
Over 36 years living in Suffolk but always a mariner. 68 Years following the Town
Precisely. Anyone that holds an opinion different to this is a monster.
Exactly. Humbercod thinks differently though. Flatten the Gaza Strip. It’s the only way. All the innocent deaths would be Hamas’ fault and that’s that. Not a racist though. Israeli children count but Palestinian children are expendable. It’s like us bombing the Nazis.Muslims are to blame. Ask them to sort it. Definitely not racist and thick as f**k though. No way. Absolutely not. Anyone - especially me - who makes a case against that bigoted, conspiracy minded bogus victim stance is a ‘lefty sharp object’, or some such cobblers. Fathom that!
I’m sure Netanyahu’s far right govt & millions of Israeli settlers would see the forced displacement and genocide of millions of Palestinians as a win.
Exactly. Humbercod thinks differently though. Flatten the Gaza Strip. It’s the only way. All the innocent deaths would be Hamas’ fault and that’s that. Not a racist though. Israeli children count but Palestinian children are expendable. It’s like us bombing the Nazis.Muslims are to blame. Ask them to sort it. Definitely not racist and thick as f**k though. No way. Absolutely not. Anyone - especially me - who makes a case against that bigoted, conspiracy minded bogus victim stance is a ‘lefty sharp object’, or some such cobblers. Fathom that!
Hamas literally still firing rockets into Israel you stupid girl private!
I’m sure Netanyahu’s far right govt & millions of Israeli settlers would see the forced displacement and genocide of millions of Palestinians as a win.
You do realise the Hamas don’t just want the land they want every Jew in the world dead.
Exactly. Humbercod thinks differently though. Flatten the Gaza Strip. It’s the only way. All the innocent deaths would be Hamas’ fault and that’s that. Not a racist though. Israeli children count but Palestinian children are expendable. It’s like us bombing the Nazis.Muslims are to blame. Ask them to sort it. Definitely not racist and thick as f**k though. No way. Absolutely not. Anyone - especially me - who makes a case against that bigoted, conspiracy minded bogus victim stance is a ‘lefty sharp object’, or some such cobblers. Fathom that!
Still no credible alternative from you eh silly bollox?
You do realise the Hamas don’t just want the land they want every Jew in the world dead.
Hamas weren’t even founded until the late 80s, founded in part by Israeli officials to counteract secular and more moderate groups in Palestine? Long after Palestinians were ethnically cleansed in the area.
Hamas weren’t even founded until the late 80s, founded in part by Israeli officials to counteract secular and more moderate groups in Palestine? Long after Palestinians were ethnically cleansed in the area.
Still doesn’t give them the right to rape women and slaughter babies.
Having been abroad for a bit television is more graphic eg in Spain . Watching reports of Hamas targeting young innocent people at the music festival with guns and dead bodies strewn all over the roadside trying to escape ( Israelis are not innocent either as Ive seen reports of Hamas soldiers being shot at from behind by the Israeli military even though they've surrendered) . Brings home how much suffering and evil there is still in the world today amongst other world problems on a local and national/international level and the need to constantly fight the good fight and try to make it a fair world for all.
Let's face it, the leadership of either side of the conflict don't want peace. Ever since Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated (by a far-right religious nutter), the Israeli leadership has moved ever rightwards and it has become politically expedient to completely ignore anything to do with the peace process. Hamas have secured power (no elections allowed, of course) and the Palestinian population aren't going to be able to take that from them at the ballot box or through arms. Netanyahu has been moving ever-rightwards to hold onto power (he is an absolutely despicable scumbag), turning a blind eye to the illegal settlements being created by fundamentalist Jewish groups which have forcibly displaced Palestinians from their land.
We're now heading for a massacre in Gaza as the IDF will indiscriminately target civilians, as they have done throughout the conflict. Whenever Hamas have fired rockets into Israel, it has been indiscriminate on their part and the retaliation has been similarly indiscriminate. In fact, it looks as though things will be even worse as the Israeli President made these comments the other day:
Quoted Text
It is not true this rhetoric about civilians not being aware, not involved. It’s absolutely not true. They could have risen up. They could have fought against that evil regime which took over Gaza in a coup d’etat.
Which is an absolute steaming pile of bullshit, of course. There will be terrible war crimes carried out in Gaza by the IDF in coming weeks - there have been some already. Shelling of convoys on declared 'safe routes' out of Gaza and the like. Ultimately, I hope the politicians in the Israeli government will be held responsible for the crimes their troops are ordered to commit in the same way that the Hamas leadership are held responsible for the atrocities they ordered the other week. Not holding my breath, however.
In the meantime, women, children and civilians will continue to be murdered by both sides.
Let's face it, the leadership of either side of the conflict don't want peace. Ever since Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated (by a far-right religious nutter), the Israeli leadership has moved ever rightwards and it has become politically expedient to completely ignore anything to do with the peace process. Hamas have secured power (no elections allowed, of course) and the Palestinian population aren't going to be able to take that from them at the ballot box or through arms. Netanyahu has been moving ever-rightwards to hold onto power (he is an absolutely despicable scumbag), turning a blind eye to the illegal settlements being created by fundamentalist Jewish groups which have forcibly displaced Palestinians from their land.
We're now heading for a massacre in Gaza as the IDF will indiscriminately target civilians, as they have done throughout the conflict. Whenever Hamas have fired rockets into Israel, it has been indiscriminate on their part and the retaliation has been similarly indiscriminate. In fact, it looks as though things will be even worse as the Israeli President made these comments the other day:
Which is an absolute steaming pile of bullshit, of course. There will be terrible war crimes carried out in Gaza by the IDF in coming weeks - there have been some already. Shelling of convoys on declared 'safe routes' out of Gaza and the like. Ultimately, I hope the politicians in the Israeli government will be held responsible for the crimes their troops are ordered to commit in the same way that the Hamas leadership are held responsible for the atrocities they ordered the other week. Not holding my breath, however.
In the meantime, women, children and civilians will continue to be murdered by both sides.
If only you could recognise both sides have death because of Hamas! Hamas could end this right now by releasing the hostages and surrendering! I’m surprised you of all people would fall for the propaganda from an evil terrorist group…. Shelling of the convoy has been shown to be intercourse all to do with the IDF, but more than likely an IED roadside device planted by Hamas!
What is it with the lefty’s on here many of whom had hard on’s for the terrorist sympathiser, antisemite Corbyn becoming president?
It’s becoming clearer now that Iran was behind this - the Guardian reports that the Revolutionary Guard met Hamas in 2nd October in Beirut to give the green light for the attack. I’ve seen similar reports on Reuters. This is effectively a mass suicide attack by Hamas, they could never win a war against the IDF, promoted by religious fascists to provoke (successfully) the religious fascists currently in control in Israel. Israeli and Palestinian civilians suffer the atrocities, Iran gets instability and headlines showing war crimes. death and destruction in Gaza caused by USA’s proxy. Iran’s ally Russia gets distraction from its war crimes in Ukraine. Perfect storm…
It’s becoming clearer now that Iran was behind this - the Guardian reports that the Revolutionary Guard met Hamas in 2nd October in Beirut to give the green light for the attack. I’ve seen similar reports on Reuters. This is effectively a mass suicide attack by Hamas, they could never win a war against the IDG, promoted by religious fascists to provoke (successfully) the religious fascists currently in control in Israel. Israeli and Palestinian civilians suffer the atrocities, Iran get’s instability and headlines showing war crimes. death and destruction in Gaza caused by USA’s proxy. Iran’s ally Russia gets distraction from it’s war crimes in Ukraine. Perfect storm…
That’s how it looks to me, they would have known the reaction to the mass slaughter would be an Israeli invasion! Question is what do they have planned next?
If only you could recognise both sides have death because of Hamas! Hamas could end this right now by releasing the hostages and surrendering! I’m surprised you of all people would fall for the propaganda from an evil terrorist group…. Shelling of the convoy has been shown to be intercourse all to do with the IDF, but more than likely an IED roadside device planted by Hamas!
What is it with the lefty’s on here many of whom had hard on’s for the terrorist sympathiser, antisemite Corbyn becoming president?
There must be a link 🤔
If you must interrupt a balanced and informed discussion on a grave geopolitical and humanitarian catastrophe with your nonsensical, illiterate, bigoted and unhinged pigswill then at least try to avoid embarrassing childish slurs by calling people ‘lefty’s’ (sic). Go and read some books and start with key stage 1 English text books so you can learn the incredibly complex concepts of ‘how plurals work’. You f•••wit.
If you must interrupt a balanced and informed discussion on a grave geopolitical and humanitarian catastrophe with your nonsensical, illiterate, bigoted and unhinged pigswill then at least try to avoid embarrassing childish slurs by calling people ‘lefty’s’ (sic). Go and read some books and start with key stage 1 English text books so you can learn the incredibly complex concepts of ‘how plurals work’. You f•••wit.
F•••wit….ooh you’re hard 😂
You Corbynista’s make me sick, not once have you condemned the Islamic terrorists, but quick to condemn Israel! Pretty much every western country supports Israel in defending itself, you idiotic liberal male masturbators are as usual out of touch.
You have absolutely nothing to offer on this debate do you? I will ask you one last time … how should Israel respond to the massacre of 1400 innocent civilians?
All you do is female dog at me like a deranged extreme leftist, I actually think you’re getting a little too obsessed with me lefty boy and it’s not good for your Heath. I know you’re not the brightest lefty that ever graced the fishy, so I will let you know, that if you really cannot tolerate different viewpoints, then just block me it’s really that simple!
Oooh Jeremy Corbyn Oooh Jermey Corbyn in the news cos he hates the Jews Oooh Jeremy Corbyn
If you must interrupt a balanced and informed discussion on a grave geopolitical and humanitarian catastrophe with your nonsensical, illiterate, bigoted and unhinged pigswill then at least try to avoid embarrassing childish slurs by calling people ‘lefty’s’ (sic). Go and read some books and start with key stage 1 English text books so you can learn the incredibly complex concepts of ‘how plurals work’. You f•••wit.
From the numpty who calls middle age white men Gammon😂
Right, I’ll indulge you one last time because your literacy and comprehension skills are clearly sub key stage 1….
The killing of innocent Israeli citizens by a terrorist death cult is appalling. Retaliating by killing and displacing thousands more Palestinian civilians is equally appalling, unhelpful and brainless. Saying that you are ‘prioritising damage over accuracy’ - an IDF quote - is really grave. The situation is hideously complex and requires restraint and thoughtful international deliberation, and that may not be possible. The scenes of carnage and horror from the region will sicken any normal human. Spouting illiterate b0llocks about Corbyn and anti Muslim bigotry etc makes you look like a racist cretin and is irrelevant. Grow up, or leave the discussion to the adults.
All you do is female dog at me like a deranged extreme leftist, I actually think you’re getting a little too obsessed with me lefty boy and it’s not good for your Heath.
Cold today…brrrrr. Wrap up warm my friend.
Edward Heath was a paedo righty wasn’t he?
Adrian Heath was more of a left winger. Graeme Sharp, Kevin Sheedy - just a shït Kingsley Black, all technique, no pants.
Insomnia, please release me and let me dream Of makin' mad love to my girl on the Heath Tearin' off tights with my teeth But there's no release, no peace
Right, I’ll indulge you one last time because your literacy and comprehension skills are clearly sub key stage 1….
The killing of innocent Israeli citizens by a terrorist death cult is appalling. Retaliating by killing and displacing thousands more Palestinian civilians is equally appalling, unhelpful and brainless. Saying that you are ‘prioritising damage over accuracy’ - an IDF quote - is really grave. The situation is hideously complex and requires restraint and thoughtful international deliberation, and that may not be possible. The scenes of carnage and horror from the region will sicken any normal human. Spouting illiterate b0llocks about Corbyn and anti Muslim bigotry etc makes you look like a racist cretin and is irrelevant. Grow up, or leave the discussion to the adults.
Muslim bigotry where show me ? You’ve literally just made that up! Yes Hamas are an Islamic terrorist death cult! Islam is not a race you clown
To show restraint and thoughtful international deliberation!!!!! That’s your answer seriously??? For how Israel should respond to the worst massacre since the holocaust…. WTF you absolute 🤡 I’m done with you 👋
Everytime I see a post of Humbo's that has been quoted, reinforces my choice to make him one of the few posters who I block on this site.
It's not just the bile, or the moronic right-wing nonsense he spouts, but the ever more overt racism and inability to comprehend an argument or formulate one himself without watching some ludicrous guff from Laurence Fox, Tate or some other self-serving no mark.
They say ignorance is bliss, so I don't understand why he seems to be so perpetually furious. He should be the happiest guy in town.
I see the religion of peace struck again in Belgium last night. It won’t be long before the enemy within hit us again. With around 50000 (conservative estimate) on the terror watch list in the UK it will only be a matter of time. Successive governments have imported and forced this medieval crap onto us, this once proud free loving Christian nation, is now a divided basket case, filled and ever growing with evil ideology’s.
In the immediate aftermath of the Jews being slaughtered, it was sickening to see the number of Muslims throughout our towns and city’s rejoice at the rape, torture, murder and mutilation of children. Where were all the peaceful Muslims I keep hearing about? Why was there no counter match from the Muslim community In solidarity with their fellow British Jews?
And nothing from the woke left who should hang their heads in shame, but no they were out in force at the last weekends carnival of Jew hate, all in solidarity with their Hamas supporting friends. Although I did chuckle at the queers for Palestine banners 😂
Successive governments have imported and forced this medieval crap onto us, this once proud free loving Christian nation, is now a divided basket case, filled and ever growing with evil ideology’s.
Morning Mr Cod - it’s so dark and the clocks haven’t even gone back yet. It’s going to be a long winter.
Now, as a proud British atheist, please can I point out that my proud, free-loving ancestors had Christianity imported and forced on to them, not once but twice. This foreign religion and suspect ideology was imposed on my forepersons, in a violent and viscious manner, leading to the many sectarian divisions that we still see today.
Rob will be contacting you shortly in respect of my overdue reparations. All major credit cards accepted (apart from AMEX).
Racist, homophobic and dense strikes again. It’ll be ‘ideologies’, not ‘ideology’s’ and cities not ‘city’s’. My 7 year old has nailed this. Go get some private tuition. What an absolute weapon. Me - I’m an atheist, and every day I’m reminded why. Killing in the name of any religion disgusts most decent humans. What happened in Belgium is sickening. You didn’t mention the 6 year old boy stabbed to death in America for being a Muslim. Presumably because you’ve already indicated that you think humanity has a ranking system and, in your twisted and dark world, some people deserve to die. A six year old child!
Where were all the peaceful Muslims I keep hearing about?
The frosts will arrive soon. Nothing quite like the crunch of cold grass under a cushioned Clark’s.
This is a mere anecdote but it’s all I have. I was on Lower Briggate in Leeds on Saturday. There was an aggregation of around 100 people, with various Palestine supporting placards. I wouldn’t like to jump to the conclusion that some of these peaceful demonstrators weren’t Muslim but roughly half looked like what you would possibly describe as ‘Corbynista, beetroot eating, pubic horticulturists’.
Even if we say that all of these 100 people were Muslim, the Muslim population of Leeds is roughly 70,000.
To answer your question, the other 69,900 ‘peaceful Muslims’ (if we conclude that these peaceful demonstrators are not peaceful) were probably; in bed; at the supermarket; at work; at the gym; at the football; at the masjid; at a sponsored swim; having a wânk or watching TV (i.e. the same as you or I, but with more masjid and less wänking).
Pleasure to hear the Islamist nut job was shot dead one less to worry about. I wonder how many more we have imported this year alone under the guise of refugee status, if only we had a conservative government 🙏
The frosts will arrive soon. Nothing quite like the crunch of cold grass under a cushioned Clark’s.
This is a mere anecdote but it’s all I have. I was on Lower Briggate in Leeds on Saturday. There was an aggregation of around 100 people, with various Palestine supporting placards. I wouldn’t like to jump to the conclusion that some of these peaceful demonstrators weren’t Muslim but roughly half looked like what you would possibly describe as ‘Corbynista, beetroot eating, pubic horticulturists’.
Even if we say that all of these 100 people were Muslim, the Muslim population of Leeds is roughly 70,000.
To answer your question, the other 69,900 ‘peaceful Muslims’ (if we conclude that these peaceful demonstrators are not peaceful) were probably; in bed; at the supermarket; at work; at the gym; at the football; at the masjid; at a sponsored swim; having a wânk or watching TV (i.e. the same as you or I, but with more masjid and less wänking).
I was referring to the 10s of thousands who marched in support of hamaz/Palestine. But you already knew that 😘
I was referring to the 10s of thousands who marched in support of hamaz/Palestine. But you already knew that 😘
I think what you might have done here is taken the numerator used in my previous, crude example and increased it in your figures, without increasing the denominator to take into account the c.4m Muslims in the UK.
I do sympathise. My maths is all over the place at the moment with this incessant autumnal chill and the warring fractions in the East.
I think it has reached the stage where Humbo is so confused that he's started trolling himself.
Here's a final tip Humbo, when you start cheering on a planned genocide (of the Palestinians, in this case), it's probably time to take a look in the mirror and try to think about things a but more logically. Genocide (of any group) is a bad thing.
I think it has reached the stage where Humbo is so confused that he's started trolling himself.
Here's a final tip Humbo, when you start cheering on a planned genocide (of the Palestinians, in this case), it's probably time to take a look in the mirror and try to think about things a but more logically. Genocide (of any group) is a bad thing.
But I thought you had blocked me….you couldn’t t even follow that through 😂 You just couldn’t resist could you? deep down you like to be challenged don’t you Maringer.
I actually don’t mind you as you can make sense and make me think at times, and although rude from time to time you’ve never been abusive to me, unlike that numpty Chaos33. I’ve said goodbye to him now and unlike you with me I’m not at all interested in what he posts, so I will never see them.
As for the rest of your post to mention genocide is absolutely bloody ridiculous, they have to go in to end the cancer of Hamas once and for all they have no choice. They are dropping thousands of leaflets daily to tell the people to leave whilst Hamas continues to fire rockets. Seriously can’t you see Hamas need to be wiped out like the Nazis or Isis?
Now let me give you a tip …….. before posting on reported atrocities by those evil Jews, try and at least make sure it’s not propaganda from Hamas.
Given that most of the western powers are very heavily pro-Israel, the fact that the UN is reporting that Israeli air strikes have hit a UN-run school where 4000 were sheltering makes me think that they probably are carrying out their fair share of war crimes.
I just don’t know why with the world watching for you to slip up and do something daft like bomb a hospital you would bomb a hospital.
There are absolutely no consequences for Israel - zero, none. The genocide has been cheered on by the entire political & media establishment across the western world. They’re armed to the tune of hundreds of billions by America & have one of the most technologically advanced armies on the planet. Blowing up a hospital full of kids and women is a war crime, Netenyahu should be swinging on the end of a rope like Sadam Hussein.
With the unpredictable nature of indirect fire (IDF, ironically) it is possible that it was a misfired rocket. An Israeli politician tweeting soon afterwards in celebration of the IDF hitting a Hamas base probably rules that out though. Leave them to it I reckon. They’re well trained militarily. They can still buy weapons from us if they want to - we’re not obliged to give them any priority. It’s hard not to see them getting obliterated from all angles for the next few days now.
The Israeli govt have spent the last week or so calling Palestinians “animals”, “children of darkness”, cutting off water and bombing convoys of civilians at the Rafah border after they’d just told them to head that way. The Israeli ambassador to the UK sat on Sky News and said there was “no humanitarian crisis” in Gaza and called Palestinian citizens nazis. It wasn’t long back an IDF sniper shot Shireen Abu Akleh, a journalist, in the head then publicly and loudly blamed “Palestinian gunmen”.
Suddenly we’re supposed to believe that Hamas killed 500 of their own citizens hiding or being treated in a hospital?
Lot of disappointed Jew haters still clinging to the hope it was Israel. Some people on here make me sick.
To be honest with you pal when I was out in Israel in 2018 I spoke to both groups eg Palestinians and Israelis and there were good people on both sides. Genuinely don't like to see both groups suffering terribly.
Can't see it personally( I maybe wrong and I note Biden has backed the Israeli view) that it was the Israelis who caused the damage to the hospital in the recent atrocity. More likely to be Hamas with a misfired rocket as per press reports today .
To be honest with you pal when I was out in Israel in 2018 I spoke to both groups eg Palestinians and Israelis and there were good people on both sides. Genuinely don't like to see both groups suffering terribly.
Can't see it personally( I maybe wrong and I note Biden has backed the Israeli view) that it was the Israelis who caused the damage to the hospital in the recent atrocity. More likely to be Hamas with a misfired rocket as per press reports today .
You can’t see that a military that has spent the last few days excessively bombing civilian areas and talking about committing ethnic cleansing would do exactly that?
There are also copies of a post on X(Twitter) since deleted claiming responsibility from a senior Israeli . Not sure how to link the copy but I think it’s best to take all reports with a pinch of salt in times of war as has been said many times, “ the first casualty of war is the truth”. I only made my earlier post on having seen pictures of the damage the Hamas missiles have done in previous attacks. The press have their own agenda and owners in different countries and reporting will reflect this
You can’t see that a military that has spent the last few days excessively bombing civilian areas and talking about committing ethnic cleansing would do exactly that?
Some people can’t be helped.
I've only been reading snippets of news as Ive been busy with work so appreciate your news input . Having said that I don't think you can trust any side completely. Both have been guilty of war crimes in the past due to the brutal nature of war and some soldiers overstepping the mark. Think of military personnel working for the USA in Afghanistan who have a split second to decide whether to neutralise a child who could or couldn't be a terrorist bomber ?. Easy to throw slander when you haven't been in the thick of battle.
I've only been reading snippets of news as Ive been busy with work so appreciate your news input . Having said that I don't think you can trust any side completely. Both have been guilty of war crimes in the past due to the brutal nature of war and some soldiers overstepping the mark. Think of military personnel working for the USA in Afghanistan who have a split second to decide whether to neutralise a child who could or couldn't be a terrorist bomber ?. Easy to throw slander when you haven't been in the thick of battle.
It's also apparently very easy to remotely bomb civilians and people looking to escape when you're sat miles away.
It's also apparently very easy to remotely bomb civilians and people looking to escape when you're sat miles away.
You have to reserve judgement though Mariner as do I as to who was guilty until more evidence comes in on the hospital bombing.( I do have a lot of sympathy though for the jews which may cloud my judgment somewhat as throughout history they have suffered tremendously especially the Holocaust and they just want a place they can call home).
When your in Israel though you realise its another world to what were use to in the West. I stayed near Jerusalem and the call to prayer via the Muslim religion and Jewish way of bowing continuously as a form of prayer creates a rich vibrant society full of differing ideas. It would be nice one day though that the world could just have one world religion/ideology and all peoples unite under the umbrella of kindness.
You have to reserve judgement though Mariner as do I as to who was guilty until more evidence comes in on the hospital bombing.( I do have a lot of sympathy though for the jews which may cloud my judgment somewhat as throughout history they have suffered tremendously especially the Holocaust and they just want a place they can call home).
When your in Israel though you realise its another world to what were use to in the West. I stayed near Jerusalem and the call to prayer via the Muslim religion and Jewish way of bowing continuously as a form of prayer creates a rich vibrant society full of differing ideas. It would be nice one day though that the world could just have one world religion/ideology and all peoples unite under the umbrella of kindness.
Obviously it would have to be your god? The Jews, Christians and Islam are branches of the same religion and all have many subsets that do not get along at all. There is power in religion and none like giving it up to a rival. For the most part people get along until the religious zealots stir up things. It may be nice to live in a future that we live in a world without this unnecessary superstition having importance or relevance and live by moral codes instead of what unelected fundamentalists think is right and wrong
Obviously it would have to be your god? The Jews, Christians and Islam are branches of the same religion and all have many subsets that do not get along at all. There is power in religion and none like giving it up to a rival. For the most part people get along until the religious zealots stir up things.
I like what the Guru Nanak of the Sikh religion said though. Roughly along the lines of there is no religious superiority over another eg Hindu over Muslim and vice versa. We are all one created by the event when the universe came into existence.
And let the youth dance together and shag each other…
Shakespeare, Bernstein, The Undertones and Stiff Little Fingers - Teenage Kicks, Alternative Ulster and Barbed Wire Love…did the young punks of Northern Ireland care whether who was Protestant and who was Catholic, did they feck.
Conflict spreading, Yank navy have shot down a missile and their forces in Iraq and Syria have been attacked by drones.
I deplore the Likud regime, but one has to look at the wider picture. Iran doesn’t give a shite about the Palestinians. They’ve women protestors out on the streets burning Israeli and US flags dressed in modest attire - perfect anti-dote for the women’s rights protests in Iran. We have to think about timing as well. Israel:Saudi relations were improving with the prospect of an alliance. The last thing both the Iranian shias or the Hamas sunnis would want.
Watching a documentary at the moment on PBS America and interesting though Ginny is the ultra religious Jews didn't want a state of Israel to be created in 1948 and felt the diaspora of their people was punishment and it was only divine intervention that could could bring about a Jewish homeland not political intervention. Similarly the creation of Israel was wanted by those who were non religious and wanted to separate state from religion and felt the ultra religious should stay in the synagogue.
[quote=3869] Watching a documentary at the moment on PBS America and interesting though Ginny is the ultra religious Jews didn't want a state of Israel to be created in 1948 and felt the diaspora of their people was punishment and it was only divine intervention that could could bring about a Jewish homeland not political intervention. Similarly the creation of Israel was wanted by those who were non religious and wanted to separate state from religion and felt the ultra religious should stay in the synagogue.
I couldn't remember making this post and scrolled through the thread to find it was from 2021, the last time we were discussing the very same problem as is happening today. Nothing has changed since then, and whether you like it or not, religion is the driving force.
If the ultra religious Jews are waiting for divine intervention to bring about a homeland, they will be waiting until the end of time.
What are we to make of the fact that the area of Gaza that Israel told the Palestinian civilians to evacuate to (the south) is now being bombed into oblivion by Israel? Where do they flee to now…these people who have already lost everything? The media coverage of this, and the failure to address this reality is heartbreakingly stark.
I couldn't remember making this post and scrolled through the thread to find it was from 2021, the last time we were discussing the very same problem as is happening today. Nothing has changed since then, and whether you like it or not, religion is the driving force.
If the ultra religious Jews are waiting for divine intervention to bring about a homeland, they will be waiting until the end of time.
you could be wrong there Ginny , Jesus has been seen shopping in Jerulsalem the other day.
you could be wrong there Ginny , Jesus has been seen shopping in Jerulsalem the other day.
Thing is Chrissy say what you want about Jesus but he showed more balls than many today. Stood up for a good ideal in trying to create a better society for all and got tortured and died in horrific circumstances for it . It's why he created a movement after his death and people died for his cause in the years after. I've seen it similarly in life and read about it to varying degrees . People standing up to bullies be it through physical or verbal means ( putting them in their place) who prey on the weak.
And many pre-Christian societies around the world, some in the Middle East and more in Mesoamerica, were much more elgalitarian than Christian, Judaism and Islamic societies and not ruled by a discourse of power exercised by the religious elite through fear and repression, as in the Middle East and elsewhere. What’s more they existed for longer in humanity’s timeline than the current 2k years of these religions and in much greater harmony with the natural world. Jesus doesn’t have a monopoly on all humans being of equal worth.
In response, Israel killed over 15,000, including 7000 children. The UN have confirmed these numbers are accurate. Just picture that for a minute. A football ground virtually the size of Blundell Park, full of children. All dead. Have we lost all empathy? Do people see those kids differently because they ain't white? Visualise if it was your own children, relatives children etc. A child is a child.
People are starving, and medical supplies are short. Hospitals are overrun. Disease is rampant.
This isn't against Hamas, this is collective punishment. Starving the population and telling 2 million people to move to a small strip of land and bombing locations on route after previously bombing safe areas (BBC even confirmed as much). Israel says they are trying to eradicate Hamas, and it seems they're doing this by executing anyone capable of joining them, now or in the future. This is bordering on genocide, and it's flipping disgusting.
Oh, and in case you're curious why Hamas are as capable as they are, Netanyahu has been funding and propping them up for years and quietly saying behind closed doors that financing them prevents a two state solution. Here is a source that is going to be harder for folks of a right disposition to shrug off:
IDF killing their own now. 3 hostages, white flag, bare chested to show no suicide belt and one shouting in Hebrew…on that basis I’d say the front line grunts are pretty much in indiscriminate killing mode.
Western democracy is strategically failing at the moment. Israel has state of the art f-35s to kill Islamic nutters who have not much more than Ak-47s and slaughter civilians, whilst Ukraine’s air defences are under massive pressure and aid is being blocked. North Korea is able to make a UN statement condemning the US ceasefire veto whilst supplying artilley shells to Putin. Meanwhile Iran is supplying its more potent drone and missile weapons to Putin, whilst chucking enough basic ordnance to Hamas to enable them to provoke the continuation of the Israeli mass slaughter.
China can sit back and soak up the perfect anti-democracy propaganda and continue its military build up to threaten Taiwan, which makes most of our computer chips…
IDF killing their own now. 3 hostages, white flag, bare chested to show no suicide belt and one shouting in Hebrew…on that basis I’d say the front line grunts are pretty much in indiscriminate killing mode.
Western democracy is strategically failing at the moment. Israel has state of the art f-35s to kill Islamic nutters who have not much more than Ak-47s and slaughter civilians, whilst Ukraine’s air defences are under massive pressure and aid is being blocked. North Korea is able to make a UN statement condemning the US ceasefire veto whilst supplying artilley shells to Putin. Meanwhile Iran is supplying its more potent drone and missile weapons to Putin, whilst chucking enough basic ordnance to Hamas to enable them to provoke the continuation of the Israeli mass slaughter.
China can sit back and soak up the perfect anti-democracy propaganda and continue its military build up to threaten Taiwan, which makes most of our computer chips…
To be fair, fabricators are being built in Europe and the US now, but it certainly is worryingly precarious. Once fabs are un and running outside Taiwan, they'll probably be thrown to the wolves by the US if they can get fabs there decommissioned. It's the one thing that kept them safe.
Are IDF now doing what they should have done from 7th October whilst leaving Gaza alone? Targeted assassinations of the religious fascists that run Hamas and their Iranian backers. The Hamas leader in Beirut and an Iranian general the other day. And today some group (Mossad’’s work?) has killed over 100 at a memorial service for an Iranian general in Iran today. This is the way to fight those that shed crocodile tears for the people of Gaza but delight in the images showing death and destruction in Gaza caused by the “West”. At the same time using the principle of my enemy’s enemy is my friend, despite the human rights issues, US and Israel should get the Saudis onside to start to negotiate a two state solution. Unfortunately, Netanyahu has, and will do, everything to make sure that never happens.
UK/US strikes in Yemen from as far afield as Cyprus. So at least Egypt but also maybe Jordan and Saudi have agreed to allow the transit through their airspace.
Fair bit of intercourse around and find out about it from a Houthis perspective. A HOC faux pas to do it without debate though again.
UK/US strikes in Yemen from as far afield as Cyprus. So at least Egypt but also maybe Jordan and Saudi have agreed to allow the transit through their airspace.
Fair bit of intercourse around and find out about it from a Houthis perspective. A HOC faux pas to do it without debate though again.
Agreed, but at least with UN support this time. Wasn’t even vetoed by Russia or China. Looking at it strategically Putin probably content for NATO to have another distraction from Ukraine. All feels a bit First World War - October 7th setting off a chain reaction of conflict.
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