Lost Points

You have to wonder where our league position would be if fans had been let into BP for matches.

Chris Wilder recently said: "As proved this season, football is just not the same without fans - Unitedites have the ability to turn losses into draws and draws into wins - I cannot stress enough how important the fans are"

This was probably the case at Sheffield United but more so at BP. Some of those losses would have been draws and many of the draws wins. I'm not saying that with Holloways teams and the current one under Hurst were promotion teams, but with fans there, we wouldn't be staring relegation in the face.

Many years ago it was said that the fans were worth at least a goal a game at BP so add that to the scores at BP and it would have made a great difference. That extra 1 goal under Holloway would have given 8 points and 14 points under Hurst. 6 draws and 8 wins, 22 extra points would have meant an upper mid-table position which would have been about right.

This is what the fans do to encourage an improved Town performance, a 12th man at every home game.

Quoted from DB

You have to wonder where our league position would be if fans had been let into BP for matches.

Chris Wilder recently said: "As proved this season, football is just not the same without fans - Unitedites have the ability to turn losses into draws and draws into wins - I cannot stress enough how important the fans are"

This was probably the case at Sheffield United but more so at BP. Some of those losses would have been draws and many of the draws wins. I'm not saying that with Holloways teams and the current one under Hurst were promotion teams, but with fans there, we wouldn't be staring relegation in the face.

Many years ago it was said that the fans were worth at least a goal a game at BP so add that to the scores at BP and it would have made a great difference. That extra 1 goal under Holloway would have given 8 points and 14 points under Hurst. 6 draws and 8 wins, 22 extra points would have meant an upper mid-table position which would have been about right.

This is what the fans do to encourage an improved Town performance, a 12th man at every home game.

Codswallop. Sheff Utd are bottom because they got found out and lost one of the best keepers in the league. It happens so frequently where a team gets promoted, has a great start to their first season, drops off at the end and then has a torrid time the next season.

We're bottom because we signed too many players rather than a small group of good players, had a manager that lost the plot, turmoil off the pitch and a new manager that came in and told all the players they were shite and then half of them are still better than what he signed. Fans wouldn't make a difference, and if you think being booed, insulted and groaned at for 90 minutes would be motivating for the players, which is invariably what happens at BP, then you are living in a fantasy world.

Hardly codswallop.

You can’t prove it either way but fans inside stadiums certainly effect outcomes and decisions making...the amount of away wins and freak results this year isn’t just coincidence.

Would we be any better? Probably not, we prepared to fail and fail is what we did. We all know who is to blame. Impossible to dismiss the notion of no fans being codswallop though.

Would we have conceded an extra goal in each away game?

Each team has the same story, but it is frustrating that we played 2 of our relegation rivals away in the brief period that fans were allowed in and we lost both.

We are bottom for a reason. Or multiple reasons from the How Not To Run A Football Club manual. Simple as that . Absolute embarrassing shambolic season.

This thread proves boredom has set in

Quoted from golfer

This thread proves boredom has set in

No midweek game  

And I am now genned up on the local fish & chip shops    

That bloke in the Lower Stones shouting 'you're flipping excrement Town' could have made all the difference.

Quoted from Abdul19

Would we have conceded an extra goal in each away game?

No, it was physically impossible for us to concede more goals than we already had in some away games.....

Blundell Park has resembled a morgue for the last 5 years, both on and off the pitch, the few people to have watched it has been an advantage rather than the opposite

Quoted from Abdul19

Would we have conceded an extra goal in each away game?

Exactly!

With the exception of that little period when fans returned to a couple of games, this situation has worked both ways.  

You could argue that some clubs have made the most of the staff they've got in the ground to create an atmosphere and we haven't, but that's clutching at straws.

Granted we've thrown away a shed load of points, especially in the last two months.  But that's come from a lack of quality, a lack of fitness or a lack of concentration.  It hasn't come from a lack of fans in the ground.  The last time we were in this situation (09/10), Blundell Park was largely toxic.    As good as our fans can and have been, I bet they're a nightmare to play in front of when the chips are down.  You can say that for most clubs too I'm sure.  

How toxic would the atmosphere of been inside BP this season with all the goings on and off the pitch??

Quoted from Abdul19

Would we have conceded an extra goal in each away game?

What has away games got to do with a thread about home games?

Quoted from bedders78

Each team has the same story, but it is frustrating that we played 2 of our relegation rivals away in the brief period that fans were allowed in and we lost both.

What has this to do with a thread about home games?

Quoted from golfer

This thread proves boredom has set in

You may think so but it is current news about the lack of fans attending grounds and what fan power can
do.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56743252

Quoted from DB

What has away games got to do with a thread about home games?

They're the opposition's home game.

Quoted from Abdul19

They're the opposition's home game.

BOOM! and BOOM! again. Badda badda BOOM!

A few layers coasting with no fans in Payne classic example.

Quoted from pen penfras

Codswallop. Sheff Utd are bottom because they got found out and lost one of the best keepers in the league. It happens so frequently where a team gets promoted, has a great start to their first season, drops off at the end and then has a torrid time the next season.

We're bottom because we signed too many players rather than a small group of good players, had a manager that lost the plot, turmoil off the pitch and a new manager that came in and told all the players they were shite and then half of them are still better than what he signed. Fans wouldn't make a difference, and if you think being booed, insulted and groaned at for 90 minutes would be motivating for the players, which is invariably what happens at BP, then you are living in a fantasy world.

First and foremost I couldn't care too hoots about Sheff. Utd., but a few on here were singing the praises of Chris Wilder. So what he says, in his current comments on the BBC, just may be of interest as it refers to the effect fans have on home games.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56743252

Codswallop you say. Let's forget Holloway and think about the 9 home games a goal could have made a difference since the Cambridge game. Southend, Colchester, and Tranmere were all 0 - 0, Walsall and Cheltenham were both 1 - 1 draws. I think a crowd in at BP would have helped with a goal in at least 3 of those games if not all. Then we have the 3 defeats to Cambridge, Stevenage, and Orient which were all by an odd goal. A crowd would have made a difference in these games as well as salvaging a few points.

I'm not saying the performances are good their not, crap rubbish call them what you like but not good. Given that in these 9 games a crowd at BP would have made difference to the performance and some goals would have come. Not including Holloways lost points, 10 points in these 9 games would have put us above Colchester, which is a dam sight better than where we are now.

Finally, as if you say fans won't make a difference then there is no point in going is there! What sort of armchair supporter are you? It alright to comment on here and watch ifollow, if you do, but nothing can replace the atmosphere at BP. Regardless of your opinion we the fans do make a difference at BP, whether it's a happy or toxic atmosphere the home team knows; and so do the away teams.

We are where we are because of one person Fenty, and his overhaul extremely bad decisions over the years. I have never in all my posts detracted from that but FANS make a difference at home matches, ask Liverpool ( and I'm not referring to numbers) just the atmosphere.

Quoted from Abdul19

They're the opposition's home game.

I thought we were concerned about towns home games, bug ger the opposition, and their home fans.

There are many reasons for the team being bottom this season.  We have more reasons for lack of points/wins than other clubs, and these reasons are more severe.

The lack of fans at BP is not one of them.

I suspect that if we had home fans, they would have got on the players backs resulting in poorer performances.  

Quoted from TownSNAFU5

There are many reasons for the team being bottom this season.  We have more reasons for lack of points/wins than other clubs, and these reasons are more severe.

The lack of fans at BP is not one of them.

I suspect that if we had home fans, they would have got on the players backs resulting in poorer performances.  

Perhaps a nappy change and box of tissues at halftime would help. On the other men would put a shift in.

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

That bloke in the Lower Stones shouting 'you're flipping excrement Town' could have made all the difference.

You might have stumbled upon something here, like Mike Newell in a pub car park.

If a fat man, with a voice like Wagner trapped in a coffin, starts shouting abuse at pluralised Pollocks, Paynes and Cokes, psychologically it gives Town players double the strength due to the Grimsby ‘s’. It must be like playing with extra men.

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

That bloke in the Lower Stones shouting 'you're flipping excrement Town' could have made all the difference.

He wouldn't have been wrong though.

Quoted from DB

First and foremost I couldn't care too hoots about Sheff. Utd., but a few on here were singing the praises of Chris Wilder. So what he says, in his current comments on the BBC, just may be of interest as it refers to the effect fans have on home games.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56743252

Quoted Text

"As proved this season, football is just not the same without fans and I stand by the comment that I've made on numerous occasions, the club have missed out more than most.

"Unitedites have the ability to turn losses into draws and draws into wins.

"I cannot stress enough how important the fans are and I've been humbled by the unequivocal support, even this season when things haven't gone so well."

That's absolute shite though isn't it?  'Unitedites', just like every other set of fans in the country have the same level of ability to score goals, make goal line clearances etc.  None.  Yes, a rabid crowd may have a degree of influence on the game but Sheffield United (just like Town) have not had the benefit of that when playing at home, but so has every other team in the country.  

The point that was raised about away games is very valid.  For the argument that we've missed out on goal swings for our home games, based on our fans.  The same can be said when we're at away games, the teams that were hosting us would surely have missed out on that goal swing from their own fans?

As I said above, I don't think a populated Blundell Park would be particularly beneficial this season at all. Can you imagine the mood every home game when Matt Green comes out the dugout for his customary 15 minute cameo.  Or the reaction when Harry Clifton again fails to find his man with a pass, or when Stefan Payne fails to chase down a ball into the corner, or when Luke Waterfall got done by on the turn and left for dust by a striker?

Wilder's comments are of someone who's failing to acknowledge the glaringly obvious fact that he and his team just weren't good enough.  I think he did a great job at Sheff Utd and I'm sure he'll go on to have other successes elsewhere.  But this season was a hurdle too far for him and his team.  He lost his best player in Dean Henderson and replaced him with someone a level down.  He also failed to act on the issue that his side looked stagnant after the enforced break last season.  The tactics that served him so well whilst progressing through the leagues were found out. His summer recruitment was largely poor.

There are parallels here in some ways with how badly we recruited and set-up in the summer and then Holloway blaming Covid, the same situation as what everyone else faced.

We're bottom of our league because over the course of a season we've been shite, exactly the same reason Sheff Utd are bottom of their league.

Quoted from DB

What has this to do with a thread about home games?

My grannie does a lot of sewing - I'll ask her - she has more savvy.

Quoted from diehardmariner

That's absolute shite though isn't it?  'Unitedites', just like every other set of fans in the country have the same level of ability to score goals, make goal line clearances etc.  None.  Yes, a rabid crowd may have a degree of influence on the game but Sheffield United (just like Town) have not had the benefit of that when playing at home, but so has every other team in the country.  

The point that was raised about away games is very valid.  For the argument that we've missed out on goal swings for our home games, based on our fans.  The same can be said when we're at away games, the teams that were hosting us would surely have missed out on that goal swing from their own fans?

As I said above, I don't think a populated Blundell Park would be particularly beneficial this season at all. Can you imagine the mood every home game when Matt Green comes out the dugout for his customary 15 minute cameo.  Or the reaction when Harry Clifton again fails to find his man with a pass, or when Stefan Payne fails to chase down a ball into the corner, or when Luke Waterfall got done by on the turn and left for dust by a striker?

Wilder's comments are of someone who's failing to acknowledge the glaringly obvious fact that he and his team just weren't good enough.  I think he did a great job at Sheff Utd and I'm sure he'll go on to have other successes elsewhere.  But this season was a hurdle too far for him and his team.  He lost his best player in Dean Henderson and replaced him with someone a level down.  He also failed to act on the issue that his side looked stagnant after the enforced break last season.  The tactics that served him so well whilst progressing through the leagues were found out. His summer recruitment was largely poor.

There are parallels here in some ways with how badly we recruited and set-up in the summer and then Holloway blaming Covid, the same situation as what everyone else faced.

We're bottom of our league because over the course of a season we've been shite, exactly the same reason Sheff Utd are bottom of their league.

I haven't defended the way the team has played, indeed I said they were crap. To compare what I said with Sheff United is also factually wrong. Sheff Utd. have drawn only 1 game at home all season and 1 away from home, whereas we have drawn 8 games at home and 5 away from home.

1 goal in any 4 of those 8 would have put 8 points more on the table and we'd be in a better place. It seems to me that I have more faith in our home fans than you. You name our most unpopular player Payne, along with Geen and Waterfall as coming in for stick at home. Clifton has had a reasonable season give the various positions he's been asked to play, and being in front of a home crowd to cheer him on would only be to his benefit. Then what about a rejuvenated Macca, wouldn't he also benefit from a home crowd.

LJL would also benefit from the fan's appreciation following his homecoming. Matete, Menayeses, Lamy, and Coke can only be told by Macca, Clifton,LJL, and others how good the home fans are. I just don't get how negative you are saying the fans would make no difference. As far as I am concerned Town fans are the best and can motivate the team, even the crap side that we have this year.

You want to make a point about the home fans of teams we play away. Not interested in them, nor should you be. This is just a red herring to deflect from your poor view of our great fans inside BP.

Quoted from golfer

My grannie does a lot of sewing - I'll ask her - she has more savvy.

Pity your not a chip of the old block.

If no spectators has had no effect on results then surely by definition there is no advantage to playing at home?

Quoted from DB

LJL would also benefit from the fan's appreciation following his homecoming.

Classic  

We threw away some vital points, but it had nothing to do with the lack of supporters and everything to do with gifting goals to the opposition via dreadful defensive errors, and wasting what few chances we managed to create with woeful finishing.

Quoted from rancido

If no spectators has had no effect on results then surely by definition there is no advantage to playing at home?

That’s part of it, but the other part of home advantage is bring more familiar with the surroundings and especially the pitch.

Quoted from DB

I haven't defended the way the team has played, indeed I said they were crap. To compare what I said with Sheff United is also factually wrong. Sheff Utd. have drawn only 1 game at home all season and 1 away from home, whereas we have drawn 8 games at home and 5 away from home.

1 goal in any 4 of those 8 would have put 8 points more on the table and we'd be in a better place. It seems to me that I have more faith in our home fans than you. You name our most unpopular player Payne, along with Geen and Waterfall as coming in for stick at home. Clifton has had a reasonable season give the various positions he's been asked to play, and being in front of a home crowd to cheer him on would only be to his benefit. Then what about a rejuvenated Macca, wouldn't he also benefit from a home crowd.

LJL would also benefit from the fan's appreciation following his homecoming. Matete, Menayeses, Lamy, and Coke can only be told by Macca, Clifton,LJL, and others how good the home fans are. I just don't get how negative you are saying the fans would make no difference. As far as I am concerned Town fans are the best and can motivate the team, even the crap side that we have this year.

You want to make a point about the home fans of teams we play away. Not interested in them, nor should you be. This is just a red herring to deflect from your poor view of our great fans inside BP.

You do realise that there's 23 home games in a season and 23 away games for every team in our division, right?   If there's a benefit of fans in BP to GTFC, then there's a benefit for every single home side, in every single game, every single week.  If you're saying 8 extra home points based on our ace fans, then some Southend and Colchester fans are probably thinking the same.







LJL  

Quoted from DB


I haven't defended the way the team has played, indeed I said they were crap. To compare what I said with Sheff United is also factually wrong. Sheff Utd. have drawn only 1 game at home all season and 1 away from home, whereas we have drawn 8 games at home and 5 away from home.

1 goal in any 4 of those 8 would have put 8 points more on the table and we'd be in a better place. It seems to me that I have more faith in our home fans than you. You name our most unpopular player Payne, along with Geen and Waterfall as coming in for stick at home. Clifton has had a reasonable season give the various positions he's been asked to play, and being in front of a home crowd to cheer him on would only be to his benefit. Then what about a rejuvenated Macca, wouldn't he also benefit from a home crowd.

LJL would also benefit from the fan's appreciation following his homecoming. Matete, Menayeses, Lamy, and Coke can only be told by Macca, Clifton,LJL, and others how good the home fans are. I just don't get how negative you are saying the fans would make no difference. As far as I am concerned Town fans are the best and can motivate the team, even the crap side that we have this year.

You want to make a point about the home fans of teams we play away. Not interested in them, nor should you be. This is just a red herring to deflect from your poor view of our great fans inside BP.


You do realise that there's 23 home games in a season and 23 away games for every team in our division, right?   If there's a benefit of fans in BP to GTFC, then there's a benefit for every single home side, in every single game, every single week.  If you're saying 8 extra home points based on our ace fans, then some Southend and Colchester fans are probably thinking the same.





LJL

If you use this logic then Liverpool home fans are no better than Fulham or Brighton fans, yet I recall Klopp saying some months ago how they miss the buzz that the Kop gives his team. In some of our away games the home fans are nearly outnumbered by our travelling fans. Those home fans would be of little use to their team as opposed to the number of travelling fans Town take.

To repeat myself why are you being negative to our home fans. They always cheer, sing, etc. better than any travelling fans the opposition bring. I would have thought that you would have wanted any positive actions to urge the team on.

I see you picked on LJL, not Macca or Clifton. I did not praise LJL but merely used him as an example, as is Macca and Clifton, who used to play in front of crowds at BP; so they could tell the others about the atmosphere they have missed.

The statistics show there is a difference. This season is the first ever where there has been more away wins than home wins in the PL, the stats were shown by Match Of The Day (I think) recently.

The BBC website ran a couple of articles on what grounds players hated going to most and many of them said Anfield because of the crowd and how it affected them as an away player and how the home players thrived on it. A Liverpool player was quoted as saying that they just believed that they couldn't get beaten at home.

No home crowd and Liverpool have their worst run of home defeats in years.

I'm not suggesting that BP is Anfield but it seems crowds do have an influence on results.

This is the 3rd year out the last 4 we've lost more games than we've won at BP.

As for 'R ace atmosphere', I've found BP to be pretty morgue-like for about a quarter of a century!

Away matches must also be easier for away teams when there are no home fans.

Overall, this season the advantages and disadvantages of having crowds even themselves out.

We are bottom because we are not good enough.  Certainly not good enough to hold out for wins at the end of matches.

Listening to JT and Crofty before the game they both said how much the players missed the fans at home games and what the fans brought to the game. Just a thought.

Whether or not home fans influence the outcome is debatable

One thing is sure that today our fans to a man ( and a woman ) would have been on their feet cheering the lads off

It's a shame that after such a great winning performance today we've not been able to show our appreciation but hopefully for once the positive side of social media will get the message to those involved

We get knocked down, but we get up again! This season is not over yet!!

UTM ATAW GTID

Quoted from DB

If you use this logic then Liverpool home fans are no better than Fulham or Brighton fans, yet I recall Klopp saying some months ago how they miss the buzz that the Kop gives his team. In some of our away games the home fans are nearly outnumbered by our travelling fans. Those home fans would be of little use to their team as opposed to the number of travelling fans Town take.

To repeat myself why are you being negative to our home fans. They always cheer, sing, etc. better than any travelling fans the opposition bring. I would have thought that you would have wanted any positive actions to urge the team on.

I see you picked on LJL, not Macca or Clifton. I did not praise LJL but merely used him as an example, as is Macca and Clifton, who used to play in front of crowds at BP; so they could tell the others about the atmosphere they have missed.

But the Liverpool fans aren't any better than those at Brighton or Fulham are they?  Just like how our fans aren't any better than those of Bradford or Leyton Orient or any other club.  We like to think they are, but they're really not.  I'm not saying our fans aren't good, they're bloody ace but so are fans of every other club in the country.  

As Abdul points out, for your belief that are our fans are such an influence at home, why have we lost more games at home than we've won for 75% of our time back in the Football League?

Just because Klopp or Wilder say their fans would have made a difference, it doesn't mean it's true.  It's their opinion and you could argue their excuse for poor seasons.  

We aren't rock bottom because we've not had fans in.  We're rock bottom because we've been excrement for most of the season.

I wasn't picking on LJL.  I was laughing at your suggestion that he would be telling his team-mates about the great support.

"Yeah, it's great with the fans in here.  They were dead supportive when I missed an open goal.  At no point have I done a celebration with both ears cupped to my own fans...."

Blundell Park is largely soulless/toxic.  You could probably argue that for most grounds.  The nature of the home stands don't lend itself to an atmosphere, which is why it's rare to hear one.  But what you can hear is people moaning and grumbling when the chips are down.  In a season like this one, where we're incredibly poor and with a hate-hate relationship towards the board I can't for the life of me imagine that would be a motivating place to play football.

In the interest of balance Lennie did the double-ear cupping at least once away. After he scored a penalty at Dartford. I was one of the deserved targets of the gesture.

He won the penalty through sheer dogged persistence and when it was obvious that he was going to take the penalty a collective groan ‘oh no anyone but him’  was heard. I think that was the start of his scoring spree. 😆