Lack of Width

So think we're all of the opinion that we don't have anywhere near enough width in the team. I've tried working out how we can setup with our current squad to provide that width and just don't think it's possible. We don't have pace or a skillful player who can beat his man and put a cross in (Wright aside really but that's still only one winger)

Unless we sign wingers in January I think we need to play a system that suits the squad, rather than trying to play central midfielders or strikers on the wing.

Based on last night Clifton stood out as having a good game playing deep, Robson came on and played the ball well and Hess also looked creative. Rose is frustrating beyond words. He just hasn't got a football brain because he's so young and raw. But he's got something which he showed with that turn in the box in the first half . I'd like to see him played on the shoulder of the last man as part of a front 2. Tell him to stand up top and don't expect him to defend.. take the responsibility off him and jist tell him to run and scare defenders.
Ogbu also came on and caused problems. He's unpredictable to the point where I'm not sure he knows what he's doing. But he can twist and turn and find a pass when he looks more likely to lose the ball. He adds some much needed creativity.

Think if we could change system and play narrow and play to our strengths I'd do something like this...

Think the back 4 we could pick any combination and I'd be happy
Sit Clifton deep in front of the back back
Hess and Robson in a central mid role
Ogbu sat behind the front 2
Rose and Hanson up top

Yes it's narrow, but it's gives us pace up too and creativity in the spine of the team.

Quoted from bigdavemariner

So think we're all of the opinion that we don't have anywhere near enough width in the team. I've tried working out how we can setup with our current squad to provide that width and just don't think it's possible. We don't have pace or a skillful player who can beat his man and put a cross in (Wright aside really but that's still only one winger)

Unless we sign wingers in January I think we need to play a system that suits the squad, rather than trying to play central midfielders or strikers on the wing.

Based on last night Clifton stood out as having a good game playing deep, Robson came on and played the ball well and Hess also looked creative. Rose is frustrating beyond words. He just hasn't got a football brain because he's so young and raw. But he's got something which he showed with that turn in the box in the first half . I'd like to see him played on the shoulder of the last man as part of a front 2. Tell him to stand up top and don't expect him to defend.. take the responsibility off him and jist tell him to run and scare defenders.
Ogbu also came on and caused problems. He's unpredictable to the point where I'm not sure he knows what he's doing. But he can twist and turn and find a pass when he looks more likely to lose the ball. He adds some much needed creativity.

Think if we could change system and play narrow and play to our strengths I'd do something like this...

Think the back 4 we could pick any combination and I'd be happy
Sit Clifton deep in front of the back back
Hess and Robson in a central mid role
Ogbu sat behind the front 2
Rose and Hanson up top

Yes it's narrow, but it's gives us pace up too and creativity in the spine of the team.

That's all well and good but we lack something else...natural pace with the exception of Rose...we haven't got enough with the pace to run at defenders and make them back off..that to me us what we need rather than out n out wide players

We've not had proper wingers since it seems like Kingsley Black and Kevin Donovan. Always square pegged a pacey striker into the role or nudged a central midfielder slightly wider. 4-4-2 just seems to be unfashionable now!

Yes I agree with you that we probably best suited to a 2 up top and someone 'in the hole' personell wise but that means zero width and I'm pretty sure opposition manager's would quickly spot our weakness and stretch us wide to rip us apart.

So I'd say stick with the 4-3-3 and get it mastered down to a tee, can work on the forward end being fluid, swapping and changing, peeling wide or dropping in.

For example Greenie or whoever going close to Hanson for a bit, ready for knockdowns and neat interplay while knowing there an outley on say the right wing with the third frontman. But then they swap it or go back to a standard three, can even drop back to a 4-5-1 under the cosh.

This kind of approach has brought us the most success and exciting play under Hurst and Jolley.

Whatever the case, find a way of playing and stick to it with minor tweaks for opposition instead of Jolley-esque all week spent catering for countering each individual opposition.

Limbrick gone 4-3-3 and has alluded to getting back to basics and sticking with a main plan, so stick with that I'd say and expect him to too. Refreshing to have a guy who's spotted the issue we have all been pointing out and that the player's reportedly were upset about.

To play that narrow you need the full backs to be full of pace, energy and be able to deliver a decent cross as they will be your width. We don’t have that in my opinion so it would be pointless playing Hanson in a system that doesn’t get crosses into the box. This is why I think he’s stopped scoring, Jolley didn’t play with natural wingers, and the only player providing decent service into the box early season was Hewitt, but that seems to have dried up. Whilst we don’t have any fit wingers at the minute, we have players that can do jobs there, and whilst people will say about square pegs and all that, if we can get a system started now, like AL has with the 433, and stick with it, then add the missing pieces in January once one or two are shipped out first. For me it’s better to get the rest of the squad playing in a system now than rip it all up in January.

Good points, if Limbrick gets a chance to keep building then some square pegs might be needed at times as we solidify a set way of playing with a view to addressing this fact in future windows. Hopefully fans can accept this but I'm sure some would jump on the fact as a way to complain as soon as any hiccups along the way.

I'd prefer we stick to a system, our squad will evolve better knowing what they building on week in week out. Build up understandings with each on little partnerships eg. left back with left forward, midfield setup etc etc. Give Clifton his chance to master the deep lying role.

Agreed, we haven't got wingers at the club aside from Max Wright. Vernam is banging them in on loan, I really think he would be the answer if he played in a two, not showhorned out to the right wing. Play 3-5-2 with Hendrie when he's back and Gibson as the wing backs, at least you'd have some width playing that way and you get two up front. No point is us asking for 4-4-2 when we don't have the wingers.

But if you wanted to play 4-4-2, Seb Ring was a midfielder for some time in Sweden. He's got something, maybe he could play left wing? Ogbu an emergency winger in a 4-4-2?  

Think yesterday Vernham could have done a job in last 15,we need to get him back a.s.a.p.

Quoted from fishboyUTM

Agreed, we haven't got wingers at the club aside from Max Wright. Vernam is banging them in on loan, I really think he would be the answer if he played in a two, not showhorned out to the right wing. Play 3-5-2 with Hendrie when he's back and Gibson as the wing backs, at least you'd have some width playing that way and you get two up front. No point is us asking for 4-4-2 when we don't have the wingers.

But if you wanted to play 4-4-2, Seb Ring was a midfielder for some time in Sweden. He's got something, maybe he could play left wing? Ogbu an emergency winger in a 4-4-2?  

Hewitt is a better crosser than Hendrie. If we’re persisting with 433, I’d like to see Wright and Vernam alongside Hanson.

Where is Ring-doesn't anybody like him any more- I thought he was improving but now he has to buy a ticket to get in.

Quoted from golfer

Where is Ring-doesn't anybody like him any more- I thought he was improving but now he has to buy a ticket to get in.

He was on the bench against Northampton....
Rumours are awry that he and his partner haven't settled here and he's got homesick...
Shame for any player who moves country to feel like that but to be perfectly honest, he's not lit us up as fans as he,?..

Quoted from bigdavemariner

So think we're all of the opinion that we don't have anywhere near enough width in the team. I've tried working out how we can setup with our current squad to provide that width and just don't think it's possible. We don't have pace or a skillful player who can beat his man and put a cross in (Wright aside really but that's still only one winger)

Unless we sign wingers in January I think we need to play a system that suits the squad, rather than trying to play central midfielders or strikers on the wing.

Based on last night Clifton stood out as having a good game playing deep, Robson came on and played the ball well and Hess also looked creative. Rose is frustrating beyond words. He just hasn't got a football brain because he's so young and raw. But he's got something which he showed with that turn in the box in the first half . I'd like to see him played on the shoulder of the last man as part of a front 2. Tell him to stand up top and don't expect him to defend.. take the responsibility off him and jist tell him to run and scare defenders.
Ogbu also came on and caused problems. He's unpredictable to the point where I'm not sure he knows what he's doing. But he can twist and turn and find a pass when he looks more likely to lose the ball. He adds some much needed creativity.

Think if we could change system and play narrow and play to our strengths I'd do something like this...

Think the back 4 we could pick any combination and I'd be happy
Sit Clifton deep in front of the back back
Hess and Robson in a central mid role
Ogbu sat behind the front 2
Rose and Hanson up top

Yes it's narrow, but it's gives us pace up too and creativity in the spine of the team.

I agree about Rose. No football brain at all, but he is not that young. I think I saw today was his birthday - 21 I think.

He will have been playing football for a long time now, but does not seem to be attuned to the game at all. He has also developed a Premier League trait of trying ot make the most of any contact instead of getting on with it.

He does have rare moments when he threatens, but for someone who we have invested so much time and effort in I think he is a disappointment.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

I agree about Rose. No football brain at all, but he is not that young. I think I saw today was his birthday - 21 I think.

He will have been playing football for a long time now, but does not seem to be attuned to the game at all. He has also developed a Premier League trait of trying ot make the most of any contact instead of getting on with it.

He does have rare moments when he threatens, but for someone who we have invested so much time and effort in I think he is a disappointment.

I find it quite disturbing that Rose, Green and Cardwell got to play for us last night whilst Vernam was appearing in the National League.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

I find it quite disturbing that Rose, Green and Cardwell got to play for us last night whilst Vernam was appearing in the National League.

i find it quite disturbing that Cardwell got booed on from some quarters last night but within the first few moments of being on showed directness, beat his man and got a shot off on target ...something which the rest of team struggled to do in the previous 85 mins, he also wins his fair share of aeriel duals.
The lad has had less appearances/ chances than Vernam to show what he can do but has become the boo boy whilst Vernam suddenly seems to have become the saviour despite being frustratingly inconsistent and incapable of making much more than 20 mins effort in a game.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

I find it quite disturbing that Rose, Green and Cardwell got to play for us last night whilst Vernam was appearing in the National League.

Because he has hardly produced anything when he has been here (Cardwell no more either). Like Hooper, possibly found his real level.

It's only 5 weeks till 1 jan n we dont have a game for over a quarter of that period  so let's not get too troubled, especially as wright should be back for the next game. I know I'm not overly keen on limbrick but given the improvement  I'm  not unhappy to give him more time. Just look at how clifton has improved since jolley left .this has also allowed Hess to move further forward  where hes looked even better n presumably has let us create more chances. Plus I not sure on any of the names so far put forward

Quoted from bigdavemariner

So think we're all of the opinion that we don't have anywhere near enough width in the team. I've tried working out how we can setup with our current squad to provide that width and just don't think it's possible. We don't have pace or a skillful player who can beat his man and put a cross in (Wright aside really but that's still only one winger)

Unless we sign wingers in January I think we need to play a system that suits the squad, rather than trying to play central midfielders or strikers on the wing.

Based on last night Clifton stood out as having a good game playing deep, Robson came on and played the ball well and Hess also looked creative. Rose is frustrating beyond words. He just hasn't got a football brain because he's so young and raw. But he's got something which he showed with that turn in the box in the first half . I'd like to see him played on the shoulder of the last man as part of a front 2. Tell him to stand up top and don't expect him to defend.. take the responsibility off him and jist tell him to run and scare defenders.
Ogbu also came on and caused problems. He's unpredictable to the point where I'm not sure he knows what he's doing. But he can twist and turn and find a pass when he looks more likely to lose the ball. He adds some much needed creativity.

Think if we could change system and play narrow and play to our strengths I'd do something like this...

Think the back 4 we could pick any combination and I'd be happy
Sit Clifton deep in front of the back back
Hess and Robson in a central mid role
Ogbu sat behind the front 2
Rose and Hanson up top

Yes it's narrow, but it's gives us pace up too and creativity in the spine of the team.

Whilst he may not be showing the form he played in the juniors I thought Rose had a very decent first half, we played the right balls to him preferably just in front of him to give him the chance to run at defenders. Pumping long balls up to him are no use at all.

I think Vernam needs the same kind of service to run with the ball and he may be the better finisher.

I also thought Green had a better game although not quite sure what he adds to the side, missed a very good chance like he did at Northampton.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

I find it quite disturbing that Rose, Green and Cardwell got to play for us last night whilst Vernam was appearing in the National League.

I know we all have our favourite players Codger and one of yours is obviously Vernham. You can evidently see the good things or prospects of good things in his play but at the moment I don't feel he has achieved what many of us hoped for. Craig Clay was one of my favourite players and in the present team I like Hewitt. I don't think Cardwell or Whitehouse add anything to our prospects but other people do. I have my opinions,other people have theirs but if your opinions differ from mine then you're shite like Cardwell and Shitehouse.  

Quoted from golfer

I know we all have our favourite players Codger and one of yours is obviously Vernham. You can evidently see the good things or prospects of good things in his play but at the moment I don't feel he has achieved what many of us hoped for. Craig Clay was one of my favourite players and in the present team I like Hewitt. I don't think Cardwell or Whitehouse add anything to our prospects but other people do. I have my opinions,other people have theirs but if your opinions differ from mine then you're shite like Cardwell and Shitehouse.  

Hewitt cost us the first goal at Northampton because he couldn't be arsed enough to challenge their player at the far post and some of our players thought the same seeing as they were having a go at him.

Quoted from golfer

I know we all have our favourite players Codger and one of yours is obviously Vernham. You can evidently see the good things or prospects of good things in his play but at the moment I don't feel he has achieved what many of us hoped for. Craig Clay was one of my favourite players and in the present team I like Hewitt. I don't think Cardwell or Whitehouse add anything to our prospects but other people do. I have my opinions,other people have theirs but if your opinions differ from mine then you're shite like Cardwell and Shitehouse.  

I’m not saying Vernam is the solution, far from it in fact, I’m just of the opinion that he’s got more threat in his game than others, particularly in the system we’re playing. If Cooks injury is long term, I would expect Veenam back as a matter of course.