WHY GTFC IS IN DEBT

Quoted from Bigdog

From memory around £650k

Depreciating rapidly over the past few years..

One the one hand, the board haven't done too badly by roughly balancing the books, on the flip side, we had to get relegated, struggle in League Two or drop into non league while they've done so. I'm not advocating the club going further into debt but surely a club of our size shouldn't have gone through so many poor seasons on the trot with the size of our income..

That's how i see it. I've said before that the board have done a decent job financially, and there are a lot more clubs in a bigger financial mess than we are, but to counter that, the football, the bit that matters the most has been mostly mediocre to shocking over a long period. The support has never truly been tapped into, because the fare on the pitch has been mostly dire and the board and fans seem to be forever at loggerheads. For me, everything is overshadowed by our playing record over the last 15 years. It is abysmal.

Quoted from moosey_club

Always is....didn't Man Utd have a very healthy bank balance  one day and following their last takeover instantly become a highly in debt club.

Here you go. From Wiki:

the Glazers took 98% ownership of the club via their Red Football parent company, forcing a squeeze out of the remaining 2%. The final purchase price of the club totalled almost £800 million.

"Most of the capital used by Glazer to purchase Manchester United came in the form of loans, the majority of which were secured against the club's assets, incurring interest payments of over £60 million per annum. The remainder came in the form of PIK loans (payment in kind loans), which were later sold to hedge funds. Manchester United was not liable for the PIKs, which were held by Red Football Joint Venture and were secured on that company's shares in Red Football (and thus the club). The interest on the PIKs rolled up at 14.25% per annum."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glazer_ownership_of_Manchester_United

So just suppose that eventually there is no "benign loan" owed to Mr Fenty and also no other outstanding depts, what is the actual value of the club. Is this calculated at the share price of the day so, if we are still division 2 they are obviously not worth the same as if we were in the premier. Or is the value calculated some other way?

Quoted from Gaffer58

So just suppose that eventually there is no "benign loan" owed to Mr Fenty and also no other outstanding depts, what is the actual value of the club. Is this calculated at the share price of the day so, if we are still division 2 they are obviously not worth the same as if we were in the premier. Or is the value calculated some other way?

If there were no debt then the value of the club is whatever it costs to buy a controlling interest. At present JF's 43% is considered 'control' and the cost of those shares is circa £900k.

I doubt there is a premium to be  paid over and above  the cost of each share.

IF John were to write off the benign loans I expect that if someone paid him the face value of the shares he would sell provided he felt you could take the club forward.

Seems strange that he wants to sell to someone who could invest more to take the club forward yet is not willing to do so himself?  

Quoted from Cloudy

If there were no debt then the value of the club is whatever it costs to buy a controlling interest. At present JF's 43% is considered 'control' and the cost of those shares is circa £900k.

I doubt there is a premium to be  paid over and above  the cost of each share.

IF John were to write off the benign loans I expect that if someone paid him the face value of the shares he would sell provided he felt you could take the club forward.

Seems strange that he wants to sell to someone who could invest more to take the club forward yet is not willing to do so himself?

I think he's just had enough.

Quoted from rancido

I think he's just had enough.

I hope you are right!

So what is this £5.3m tax debt that we don't owe?

Quoted from The_Laughing_Mariner

So what is this £5.3m tax debt that we don't owe?

This isn't actually a tax debt. It is more like a tax credit based on historical losses. We can make profits and reduce the tax bill on these profits because we've made losses in the past.

I'm no expert but I think when we beat Liverpool, Chelsea, Manchesters City and United in the FA Cup next season before losing to Wycombe in the final and make a £5.3Million profit, we won't have to pay tax on it.

The question is even if the club were in a position to pay off JF's "benign loans" (e.g a huge cup run over a couple of years or a series of player sales + sell ons at massive profit) would JF let them be paid off or would he prefer to keep the stranglehold on the club?

So the Tax Man owes us £5.3m, why don't we claim it?