I've never quite understood..............

how people can go and watch Town for 40 odd years, and then suddenly lose all interest...........  but slowly maybe I can see how this can happen.  I accept that our league position is reasonable in a crap division, but this seasons home performances have killed my interest in watching Town this season.  Our football is dreadful, we seem clueless week in week out and the entertainment value is 1/10 nearly every home game.  How and when did we become so negative ???  When the opposition have a corner, why do we never leave a player upfield so the ball doesn;t ping straight back in our goalmouth !!!  Why do we constantly take off our potentially match winning players  ?  Thank frig the next two games are away from home.  I will never stop going to see Town after this length of time, but bloody hell, give us something to get excited about once in a while. Starting to think Slade was a poor appointment for us, even though are league position is acceptable.  I will give Slade credit for something though.  It must be a first at Blundell Park that our league position is reasonable, but the team and management still get booed off on a regular basis.......

UTM

Some reasonable points to which I would add that I always thought substitutions were an opportunity to replace players having poor games with fresh legs. So why would you replace Jones with Hooper and Dembele with anyone? If Dj had come on for Woefulford then yes. Kelly for Dixon? Possibly. Cardwell for Vernon even. But Jones and Dembele off?

Unfortunately whilst we're on an unbeaten run, Slade's style, tactics and personnel are unlikely to change. The entertainment may not be there, but that's what happens, it's a results business and owners/chairman are a fickle lot, as a manager one minute you're flavour of the month, the next you're gone.  

...putting a drum band in the stand where you sit is a quick fire way to p1ss people off.

Thought we played quite well today and was unlucky not to score in the first 5 mins.
I'm fully behind Slade and think the team will come good in time. UTM

Cobra's had a bang on the head.

Quoted from jonnyboy82

Cobra's had a bang on the head.

Pernod

I would think that Slade was told be mid table at least this season.

Then get some more  of your own players in and go for promotion next season.

Quoted from grimsby pete

I would think that Slade was told be mid table at least this season.

Then get some more  of your own players in and go for promotion next season.

Couldn't agree more Pete, that's the way it's looking v and if that's the case then so be it. We go again next season full bore,

Quoted from grimsby pete

I would think that Slade was told be mid table at least this season.

Then get some more  of your own players in and go for promotion next season.

Well, of his own signings (12), only Dixon, Clarke, Woolford & Dembele started today and two of those were our stand-out worst performers.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Well, of his own signings (12), only Dixon, Clarke, Woolford & Dembele started today and two of those were our stand-out worst performers.

No body is perfect OC  

IUYM

Quoted from grimsby pete

No body is perfect OC  

Mine is,

Quoted from Fat Cobra

Thought we played quite well today and was unlucky not to score in the first 5 mins.
I'm fully behind Slade and think the team will come good in time. UTM

FFS  I bet you used to take the teacher an apple-and I invited you to be my co-author of" The Snake in the Bunker"  You're fired .

Quoted from jonnyboy82

Cobra's had a bang on the head.

He wants one

Quoted from grimsby pete

No body is perfect OC  

We've got some pretty average players on 2 year deals Pete.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

We've got some pretty average players on 2 year deals Pete.

From where I sit it looks like we have some pretty excrement players on 2 year deals.

The bit I don't understand is Arsenal used to be "boring, boring Arsenal" and yet still had high attendances. Not sure where the unattractive football doesn't bring gates in - I personally think if we'd won the three 0-0 draws 1-0, then attendances would be up despite the poor football. People want to see winning teams before entertaining teams.

Let's face it, would you rather play great attacking football and get relegated or play boring football and be mid-table?

First half was good, no complaints. But why the 2 subs I don't know. Why long ball Against the wind second half confuses me, half tine I said to someone it'll be better second half hopefully as we will have more of an excuse to continue trying to keep the ball low going frowned... How wrong was I

Quoted from SteffiMariner

The bit I don't understand is Arsenal used to be "boring, boring Arsenal" and yet still had high attendances. Not sure where the unattractive football doesn't bring gates in - I personally think if we'd won the three 0-0 draws 1-0, then attendances would be up despite the poor football. People want to see winning teams before entertaining teams.

Let's face it, would you rather play great attacking football and get relegated or play boring football and be mid-table?

Oxymoron alert!!

How about play great attacking football and get promoted?

Quoted from SteffiMariner

The bit I don't understand is Arsenal used to be "boring, boring Arsenal" and yet still had high attendances. Not sure where the unattractive football doesn't bring gates in - I personally think if we'd won the three 0-0 draws 1-0, then attendances would be up despite the poor football. People want to see winning teams before entertaining teams.

Let's face it, would you rather play great attacking football and get relegated or play boring football and be mid-table?

Only crap attacking football will get you relegated. How can it be great if you go down ?

Quoted from Fat Cobra

IUYM

Eh  

It may have been "boring" Arsenal but they were winning games. If we had won yesterday and if Jones had put away his penalty in the last home game the mood would be so much different. We would have 4 more points and be in the playoffs. It is the failure to win against average teams at home that is the problem at present .

Quoted from grimsby pete

I would think that Slade was told be mid table at least this season.

Then get some more  of your own players in and go for promotion next season.

Agree completely with this, the safety first approach fits nicely with JF's new ground agenda for the time being at least.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Agree completely with this, the safety first approach fits nicely with JF's new ground agenda for the time being at least.

Maybe, but what if the 'safety first' approach leads to 500 or more lost season ticket sales next year? And what new ground agenda? The one that's gone as quiet as the board have on the Stevenage shambles?

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Agree completely with this, the safety first approach fits nicely with JF's new ground agenda for the time being at least.

If the safety first approach is to achieve mid table this season then go for it next season when RS has signed more players, then as someone else pointed out he has signed 12 players and only 4 of those started on Saturday and two of them many don't rate so do you have full confidence in his ability to sign players that may achieve promotion next season?

Quoted from arryarryarry

If the safety first approach is to achieve mid table this season then go for it next season when RS has signed more players, then as someone else pointed out he has signed 12 players and only 4 of those started on Saturday and two of them many don't rate so do you have full confidence in his ability to sign players that may achieve promotion next season?

From what I have seen so far no to be honest.

Quoted from grimsby pete

I would think that Slade was told be mid table at least this season.

Then get some more  of your own players in and go for promotion next season.

But Bignot was told to get to 50 points so we were safe and then build on that. If he had been allowed to develop his plan then this would have been a promotion pushing season, not next. If these kind of performances persist at home then you will see the attendances drop to a level that will financially hurt the club. If we can't beat mediocre mid-table teams at BP then what chance do we have against the better teams? I go to BP to see my team entertain me and hopefully win,  not to see a boring non-event when a point in a goal less draw is seen as some kind of achievement.

What was Bignot’s plan? I am not being facetious I just couldn’t see it on the pitch, also when Bignot was here nothing told me on or off the pitch that we would be contenders this term

Quoted from rancido

But Bignot was told to get to 50 points so we were safe and then build on that. If he had been allowed to develop his plan then this would have been a promotion pushing season, not next. If these kind of performances persist at home then you will see the attendances drop to a level that will financially hurt the club. If we can't beat mediocre mid-table teams at BP then what chance do we have against the better teams? I go to BP to see my team entertain me and hopefully win,  not to see a boring non-event when a point in a goal less draw is seen as some kind of achievement.

First highlighted bit - we are a mediocre mid table team, not a Championship team.

Second highlighted bit - football is a results business, winning comes first, entertainment second.

Quoted from rancido

But Bignot was told to get to 50 points so we were safe and then build on that. If he had been allowed to develop his plan then this would have been a promotion pushing season, not next. If these kind of performances persist at home then you will see the attendances drop to a level that will financially hurt the club. If we can't beat mediocre mid-table teams at BP then what chance do we have against the better teams? I go to BP to see my team entertain me and hopefully win,  not to see a boring non-event when a point in a goal less draw is seen as some kind of achievement.

Based on what? He had 27 games and showed no sign of building any style of play, it was a lottery what the line up would be from one match to the next. Results were erratic to say the least and I can only remember about 3 decent performances from those 27 games. Once Bogle had gone we managed 4 wins from 13 games and one of those wins was against Leyton Orient who had a team full of 18 year olds and lost to virtually everybody (12 of their last 15 games). Even in that game they were better than us for large periods of the first half. During that run of 4 wins in 13 games we managed to get hammered three times including conceding five to Crewe who hadn't won in 11 games and in that time had only scored 4 goals! 4 goals in eleven games but managed 3 in 18 minutes against a Bignot-organised defence. The records of Slade and Bignot are actually pretty similar except under Slade we've only been spanked once, as opposed to semi-regularly under Bignot. Slade also inherited a mess of a side whereas Bignot inherited a side that was going pretty strong and had the best and most in-form striker in the league.

For the record, I don't think Slade will take us up this season and I don't think he's the right man going forward if you're looking long term either. But I think it's laughable that people write off Slade whilst suggesting Bignot would have had us challenging. He showed no evidence of any progression or that he knew how to build a side. He's not pulling trees up at Chester either. 2 wins in 7 there and one of those was a last minute job against a managerless Barrow who hadn't won for 9 games.

Quoted from SteffiMariner

Second highlighted bit - football is a results business, winning comes first, entertainment second.

11 blokes are sat about in their village bored on a Saturday afternoon centuries ago:

“Oi lads I’m dead bored. Do you think we could do something with this pigs bladder?”

“We could kick it about against them inbred twits in the next village and see who wins. Maybe our grandads could gesture to their grandads behind a line of the King’s soldiers and tell them that’ll kick their heads in!”

“Yeah but only once the King’s soldiers have finished fondling our fair maidens after the Lord of the Manor put that nonsense on the scroll about them smuggling stuff in their bras.”

Is it entertainment or results based first?

Quoted from LH

Is it entertainment or results based first?

I've said it before, I'll say it again. You can play fantastic football and not win. If this happens a lot, the manager will be sacked. At the end of the day, if a team plays 2-4-4 scores 200 goals in a season but concedes 250, they will not achieve much. If a team plays 4-4-2, scores 46 goals and concedes 0, they will do OK. Kevin Keegan produced teams that were great to watch but they never achieved anything, George Graham took a pragmatic approach and won.

I am of the opinion that if we continue this unbeaten run and somehow creep into the play-offs, the gates will rise. If we start playing fantastic football and start to lose, the gates will continue to decline.

What about a third option- playing decent football and winning?

Even Accrington Stanley can manage that on gates of less than 2000, with a player that couldn't hit a cows bottom with a banjo for us, but can't stop scoring for them. One has to ask why that is so?

Kevin Keegan produced teams that were great to watch but they never achieved anything..

Well, they ended up 2nd in the Premier in that famous 95-96 season.
I'd settle for that level of scintillating football and 2nd place in this division rather than opting for the current style and hoping we somehow creep into the play-offs.

Forgive me for making an error I meant to end with “was entertainment first” rather than is. Results definitely matter now but at the very origin of the game it was always deemed as entertainment - it was something to do. Identity and support came much later on than that.

I don’t turn up at BP hoping to be entertained - nor do I expect us to win - every game because I know from 21 years experience that we get maybe one or two games a season which are entertaining. In that time I reckon there’s been maybe a handful of stand out, truly entertaining games.

I’ll be pleasantly surprised if we can push for the play offs. I don’t feel as though we add enough in the attacking third to be serious contenders. The stats posted on here today from Experimental 361 don’t make for great reading for anyone as pessimistic as I am.

[quote=799]What about a third option- playing decent football and winning?

Even Accrington Stanley can manage that on gates of less than 2000, with a player that couldn't hit a cows bottom with a banjo for us, but can't stop scoring for them. One has to ask why that is so?[/quote]

Better supply from the rest of the team and a run in the side since the start of the season?

Quoted from RoboCod

Kevin Keegan produced teams that were great to watch but they never achieved anything..

Well, they ended up 2nd in the Premier in that famous 95-96 season.
I'd settle for that level of scintillating football and 2nd place in this division rather than opting for the current style and hoping we somehow creep into the play-offs.

They spent what was at the time a fair amount of money for their runners up medals, the shirt colours may be the same but that is where the comparison ends I reckon.  

Quoted from HertsGTFC

They spent what was at the time a fair amount of money for their runners up medals, the shirt colours may be the same but that is where the comparison ends I reckon.  

Money isn't the issue in this one, it's entertaining football and the point is that such football warranted 2nd place, look  at it how you like but 2nd place runner up medals would be promotion in this league and done in style.  Where this notion that you have to play rigid, boring, functional football to win things has come from I don't know. It's like I dreamt up Buckley Mk 1 and 2.

Quoted from RoboCod

Money isn't the issue in this one, it's entertaining football and the point is that such football warranted 2nd place, look  at it how you like but 2nd place runner up medals would be promotion in this league and done in style.  Where this notion that you have to play rigid, boring, functional football to win things has come from I don't know. It's like I dreamt up Buckley Mk 1 and 2.

No you didn't dream them up you just pulled them from history which unfortunately looking at where we are now as a club is sadly unlikely to repeat itself for numerous reasons.

If we are to play the football the revivalists who post on here yearn for we need better players than we have now which in the current game costs more money I'm afraid.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

No you didn't dream them up you just pulled them from history....

Yes I did, a bit like the post I was responding to. Just examples, because I'm not buying it that we need to play the type of football we are playing currently to push this club forward, I'm not happy that we need to play like this to be 'safe' first then see if we fancy a belated crack at the playoffs, I'm stunned that Accrington seem to be managed in a carefree manner that foregoes all of these worries and negative factors and get to 2nd in the table.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

[quote=799]What about a third option- playing decent football and winning?

Even Accrington Stanley can manage that on gates of less than 2000, with a player that couldn't hit a cows bottom with a banjo for us, but can't stop scoring for them. One has to ask why that is so?[/quote]

Better supply from the rest of the team and a run in the side since the start of the season?

I'd say it was intent. Hurst, like Slade played the game with the brakes on and Jackson was shunted out to the wing, with his defensive duties to be performed. Jackson has 7 goals already for Accrington, not to mention the 10 by Billy Kee.  

Can you imagine that? Having 17 goals from your 2 strikers at this stage of the season. They must be able to afford better players than us.  

Quoted from ginnywings

I'd say it was intent. Hurst, like Slade played the game with the brakes on and Jackson was shunted out to the wing, with his defensive duties to be performed. Jackson has 7 goals already for Accrington, not to mention the 10 by Billy Kee.  

Can you imagine that? Having 17 goals from your 2 strikers at this stage of the season. They must be able to afford better players than us.  

Yeah I'd level with that to be honest, both Hurst and Slade appear to be "safety first" when in charge of Town.

Quoted from RoboCod

Yes I did, a bit like the post I was responding to. Just examples, because I'm not buying it that we need to play the type of football we are playing currently to push this club forward, I'm not happy that we need to play like this to be 'safe' first then see if we fancy a belated crack at the playoffs, I'm stunned that Accrington seem to be managed in a carefree manner that foregoes all of these worries and negative factors and get to 2nd in the table.

How many times have you watched Accrington apart from when they have played Town this season? That was a fixture Town won regardless of the hosts supposed free flowing football.

I do agree we are playing within ourselves but I am not convinced we have the quality in the right part of the field to do anything other, just simple economics I'm afraid in that we signed what we could afford.

just simple economics...we signed what we could afford

Accrington Stanley

2nd in the table

I've no idea how they play, I don't care, the above points are my concern. If they play lovely football AND get 2nd spot, bravo.
If they play unattractive lumping AND get 2nd spot then they are doing it the correct way at least.

We don't do either of those things in a constant, effective way. An early exit from the FA Cup and this season's a dead duck.

In reply to the first post, longstanding Town supporters have been 'spoilt' in the past.
The amount of class players we have seen in the black and white shirts over the years compared to the recent signings over the last 10 years or so, is more than sufficient to kill the enthusiasm of us 'oldies'.

Why do some insist that entertainment and points on board are mutually exclusive?

A manger whose team plays one dimensional boring football and loses regularly and a manager who plays some expansive entertaining football but also loses regularly will BOTH get sacked sooner rather than later. That's an Apple for Apple comparison.

A manger whose team plays one dimensional boring football and wins regularly and a manager who plays some expansive entertaining football but also loses regularly is an Apple for an Orange comparison. Argument makes no sense.

Quoted from Swansea_Mariner

Why do some insist that entertainment and points on board are mutually exclusive?

A manger whose team plays one dimensional boring football and loses regularly and a manager who plays some expansive entertaining football but also loses regularly will BOTH get sacked sooner rather than later. That's an Apple for Apple comparison.

A manger whose team plays one dimensional boring football and wins regularly and a manager who plays some expansive entertaining football but also loses regularly is an Apple for an Orange comparison. Argument makes no sense.

What about pears? #justiceforconferences