This England team…

Quoted from Ruuger

I was 20, and watching it in my house with a German couple.  They were touring the UK on a motorbike and stopped at the cafe where my Mother worked and asked if she knew anywhere they could watch the Final,  She rang me to let me know they were coming, and to make them a pot of tea!

Did they think that goal was over the line of too polite to comment. ?

Quoted from grimsby pete

Did they think that goal was over the line of too polite to comment. ?

Lol, too far back for me to remember mate.

I think its pretty hard to criticize Southgate for what he has achieved so far in his tenure. As a person born in the '70's, watching England prior to Southgate has been a mix of fleeting moments of excitement in a sea of disappointment and underachievement.

I do believe that he had, possibly for the first time ever for an England manager in that period, almost a 'blank cheque' due to the incredibly low levels of confidence the nation had in the team. When he went to his first tournament I seem to recall the general feeling was that if they managed to get out of the group stages that would have been a success!

I feel Southgate used that situation brilliantly. With low expectations he got a bunch of talented players he knew from his time with the under 21's who were not scarred or burdened by previous experiences and set about creating an environment where they could thrive. He also masterfully built a relationship with the press that was more supportive of the project rather than one where they were waiting with daggers.

Some may not like the style of play, feel he is too conservative, too slow at making changes etc, however there has been more joy watching his teams go consistently deep in tournaments than the times before he took over, which were pretty woeful by and large.

Having said all that, it's fair to criticize some of his decisions, and some of the performances in the early stages of this tournament especially have been pretty dire. However I feel any of those criticisms should be made with a view to where we were before he took the job. He's got us to a a world cup semi and quarter and 2 euro finals. From my previous experiences, this is almost like a dream!!

Ultimately, Southgate's record speaks for itself. England are now consistently reaching the latter stages of tournaments, something we've never done before. It's corresponded, and largely been driven by, an atmosphere change in the set-up which has made playing for England a more positive experience.

But there can also be no denying that Southgate has been handed some very favourable draws during his tenure, arguably at three out of his four major tournaments. That's obviously not his fault, but I'd argue we've still failed to beat a world class team at a tournament under him. The Netherlands are good but nothing special, and the Germans were struggling when we beat them at the last Euros. What would our record look like without those favourable draws? It's obviously impossible to tell but it's interesting that Southgate's win rate is actually quite a bit below Capello's, who was handed much tougher draws and his reign is rightly viewed as the dark days.

There are also tactical question marks. It's interesting that most of Europe views Southgate fairly negatively too, so it's not just England fans who have their doubts

For me, Southgate has dragged England into a great place but it feels like there's still so much more potential that could see us become a dominant force in world football for the next decade. Whatever happens in the final, Southgate has provided a great platform for the team to kick on from but I think that will need to happen under new leadership.

Quoted from Mariner93er

Ultimately, Southgate's record speaks for itself. England are now consistently reaching the latter stages of tournaments, something we've never done before. It's corresponded, and largely been driven by, an atmosphere change in the set-up which has made playing for England a more positive experience.

But there can also be no denying that Southgate has been handed some very favourable draws during his tenure, arguably at three out of his four major tournaments. That's obviously not his fault, but I'd argue we've still failed to beat a world class team at a tournament under him. The Netherlands are good but nothing special, and the Germans were struggling when we beat them at the last Euros. What would our record look like without those favourable draws? It's obviously impossible to tell but it's interesting that Southgate's win rate is actually quite a bit below Capello's, who was handed much tougher draws and his reign is rightly viewed as the dark days.

There are also tactical question marks. It's interesting that most of Europe views Southgate fairly negatively too, so it's not just England fans who have their doubts

For me, Southgate has dragged England into a great place but it feels like there's still so much more potential that could see us become a dominant force in world football for the next decade. Whatever happens in the final, Southgate has provided a great platform for the team to kick on from but I think that will need to happen under new leadership.

That's the spirit, sack off the most successful manager we've ever had because it'll definitely be better with somebody else.

Quoted from Mariner93er

But there can also be no denying that Southgate has been handed some very favourable draws during his tenure, arguably at three out of his four major tournaments. That's obviously not his fault, but I'd argue we've still failed to beat a world class team at a tournament under him. The Netherlands are good but nothing special, and the Germans were struggling when we beat them at the last Euros. What would our record look like without those favourable draws? It's obviously impossible to tell but it's interesting that Southgate's win rate is actually quite a bit below Capello's, who was handed much tougher draws and his reign is rightly viewed as the dark days.

Are we seriously still trying to have this argument? I don’t have the energy to go back further, but if we look at our records at tournaments in the 10 years prior to Southgate’s first in 2018 (in reverse order), we achieved the following:

- Euro 2016 - knocked out in 2nd round by Iceland (ranked 34th)

- World Cup 2014 - bottom of group with 1 point

- Euro 2012 - knocked out on pens in 2nd round by Italy (ranked 12th)

- World Cup 2010 - spanked 4-1 and knocked out in 2nd round by Germany (ranked 6th)

- Euro 2008 - did not qualify

That’s 5 straight tournaments, and we disgraced ourselves to various degrees in all of them. To follow that up with a quarter-final, semi-final and at the very least two finals on the bounce in the following four tournaments is nothing short of remarkable in my eyes. It’s always slightly rankled me that so many people dismiss the win against Germany at Wembley as insignificant, but to do the same now with the Netherlands victory on Wednesday night is just bizarre.

There are thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of England fans who were born and died without ever seeing England make a major final, let alone win anything. We are now in our second in three years, with a roughly 50/50 shot at winning the first silverware in many of our lifetimes.

If you can’t give Southgate due credit without somehow having to try and undermine his achievements, at least enjoy the moment. This might feel like a frequent occurrence at the current moment, but it hasn’t been for well over 50 years and may well not be again for the foreseeable future.

Come on England!!

Quoted from Poojah

Are we seriously still trying to have this argument? I don’t have the energy to go back further, but if we look at our records at tournaments in the 10 years prior to Southgate’s first in 2018 (in reverse order), we achieved the following:

- Euro 2016 - knocked out in 2nd round by Iceland (ranked 34th)

- World Cup 2014 - bottom of group with 1 point

- Euro 2012 - knocked out on pens in 2nd round by Italy (ranked 12th)

- World Cup 2010 - spanked 4-1 and knocked out in 2nd round by Germany (ranked 6th)

- Euro 2008 - did not qualify

That’s 5 straight tournaments, and we disgraced ourselves to various degrees in all of them. To follow that up with a quarter-final, semi-final and at the very least two finals on the bounce in the following four tournaments is nothing short of remarkable in my eyes. It’s always slightly rankled me that so many people dismiss the win against Germany at Wembley as insignificant, but to do the same now with the Netherlands victory on Wednesday night is just bizarre.

There are thousands, if not hundreds of hundreds of thousands of England fans who were born and died without ever seeing England make a major final, let alone win anything. We are now in our second in three years, with a roughly 50/50 shot at winning the first silverware in many of our lifetimes.

If you can’t give Southgate due credit without somehow having to try and undermine his achievements, at least enjoy the moment. This might feel like a frequent occurrence at the current moment, but it hasn’t been for well over 50 years and may well not be again for the foreseeable future.

Come on England!!

Don't you find having to deal with the ill thought out cognitive dissonance of some posters is quite energy sapping?

I watched a Kyle Walker interview yesterday and he talked about when he first got picked in 2011 the environment around England was really poor, in his own words "you trained, ate and then went back and sat in your room on your own" and "club rivalries got in the way". There was clearly a lot of things Gareth needed to fix to enable us to be in the place we are now.

I truly don't know what some people expect, all I know is that in lots of cases the expectations of some supporters is unrealistic. Across international and domestic level every successful campaign has a degree of pragmatism attached to it, maybe it's just more evident in a tournament as the games come quickly if you go deep and there's so much hype about things.

This major nation thing is a bit of a cheap shot too, many sides haven't beaten Spain or France in recent years, we may have struggled with Belgium but we've beaten Italy, Croatia and Germany in competitive matches, they may not be as strong as they have been but they're no mugs. Also it's worth noting that both Spain & France have been properly building and progressing their international set ups for decades and they've reaped the benefits.  

In reality it doesn't matter what we think  but what I would say is the players clearly have faith in Gareth and they are much better judges of how good a manager truly is than any of us who post on will ever be.

Oh yeah and one thing that might just shatter some delusions, we have a really good squad but there are better starting 11s than ours in world football.

Quoted from grimsby pete

I was 18 when I watched England win the world cup on our black+white 12ins. Telly.

I think I have suffered enough over the years so an England win to go with towns promotion will go down a treat.

AND

It's possible come on England and you mariners !!

Pete - I was in Italy in 66 and cheered on Nth. Korea to their 1 - 0 win over Italy and was lucky to escape. Just got back home and walked through the front door as the teams were kicking off.  My dad said "Hya " at half time

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Don't you find having to deal with the ill thought out cognitive dissonance of some posters is quite energy sapping?

I watched a Kyle Walker interview yesterday and he talked about when he first got picked in 2011 the environment around England was really poor, in his own words "you trained, ate and then went back and sat in your room on your own" and "club rivalries got in the way". There was clearly a lot of things Gareth needed to fix to enable us to be in the place we are now.

I truly don't know what some people expect, all I know is that in lots of cases the expectations of some supporters is unrealistic. Across international and domestic level every successful campaign has a degree of pragmatism attached to it, maybe it's just more evident in a tournament as the games come quickly if you go deep and there's so much hype about things.

This major nation thing is a bit of a cheap shot too, many sides haven't beaten Spain or France in recent years, we may have struggled with Belgium but we've beaten Italy, Croatia and Germany in competitive matches, they may not be as strong as they have been but they're no mugs. Also it's worth noting that both Spain & France have been properly building and progressing their international set ups for decades and they've reaped the benefits.  

In reality it doesn't matter what we think  but what I would say is the players clearly have faith in Gareth and they are much better judges of how good a manager truly is than any of us who post on will ever be.

Oh yeah and one thing that might just shatter some delusions, we have a really good squad but there are better starting 11s than ours in world football.

Tbf I bet Kyle walker knows a thing a two about frosty atmospheres and all I would say about Southgate is just as they got the winner he was trying to bring on Gallagher and tripper ?? Just couldn’t bring himself to go for it even in the last seconds of the job.

Quoted from dapperz fun pub

Tbf I bet Kyle walker knows a thing a two about frosty atmospheres and all I would say about Southgate is just as they got the winner he was trying to bring on Gallagher and tripper ?? Just couldn’t bring himself to go for it even in the last seconds of the job.

Or he saw we were flagging and needed some energy on to defend to give Palmer, Watkins etc a foundation to attack from or avoid conceding.......but I see your viewpoint ....for me his biggest failing this tournament is the persistence with an underperforming Kane or failing to get Kane to stay up as an outlet.....and also the virtual non use of Gordon.