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crusty ole pie
May 17, 2024, 12:04pm

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Norwich sack manager after playoff defeat
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RichMariner
May 17, 2024, 12:21pm
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Blimey.

The thing I don't get about this is that, had they sneaked a 1-0 win last night (and made the play-off final) he'd still be in a job. So, in effect, he's been sacked for one bad defeat.

I'm not sure what clubs like Norwich and Hull think they should expect. Norwich scored 79 goals, the most in the division outside the top 4.

The three clubs that got relegated from the PL last season had a HUGE advantage over every other club through their parachute payments. Leeds aren't long out of the PL, and Ipswich surprised everyone, so really, Norwich being up there and in the play-offs is about as high as they could realistically expect.

I do wonder if Ipswich's promotion played a part in this decision. For the first time in a good while, Norwich are behind their rivals.


"Don't shine that light in my face, mate - I've just lost a pint of blood."
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Poojah
May 17, 2024, 12:27pm
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Delia’s been on the Pino Grigio again.


A smooth sea never made a skillful mariner.
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diehardmariner
May 17, 2024, 12:45pm
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More to this than initially appears.  Response from a lot of a Norwich fans here sum it up quite nicely.  Lack of alignment with the ethos of the ownership/sporting director and his football is/was turgid (although anyone who watched his Huddersfield side will know how he sets sides up, having Ashley Barnes as your attacking threat isn't exactly champagne football).

Not saying I agree with sacking a manager who finishes in the play-offs and gets knocked to a side that in most seasons would have gone up (with 90 points).  

Tweet 1791399679353065649 will appear here...
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GrimRob
May 17, 2024, 3:27pm

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Everyone else can see how deluded other fans are, but none of us can see it in ourselves.

Exhibit A: Alan Buckley's final game in 2000 was a 1-1 draw at Portsmouth in the Championship. Many fans were delighted, although lots weren't.


'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.  
~ Alfred Lord Tennyson

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diehardmariner
May 17, 2024, 3:52pm
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Be it Buckley or be it Wagner, it's always the context that matters.  Clearly there were other things at play, namely the new occupants in the boardroom at the time, but by August 2000 our football had become utter dross under Buckley.  The end to 99/00 was painful.

Selling Jack Lester and then Buckley falling out with Lee Ashcroft saw the season before just fall off a cliff from January onwards, 5 points and no wins from the final 11 games.  Only 3 goals in that spell too.  Summer recruitment that saw Paul Raven and Michael Jeffrey come in for the ever popular Mark Lever and Ashcroft/Lester didn't help either.  

Lennie had massive funds to throw it at and boy did he use them.  Even still we only just stayed up at the death.  Can guarantee that had Buckley stayed in charge, we would have gone down that season with a whimper.  I suspect he wouldn't have had the funds to play with that Lennie had though.
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BobbyCummingsTackle
May 17, 2024, 4:30pm
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Quoted from diehardmariner
Be it Buckley or be it Wagner, it's always the context that matters.  Clearly there were other things at play, namely the new occupants in the boardroom at the time, but by August 2000 our football had become utter dross under Buckley.  The end to 99/00 was painful.

Selling Jack Lester and then Buckley falling out with Lee Ashcroft saw the season before just fall off a cliff from January onwards, 5 points and no wins from the final 11 games.  Only 3 goals in that spell too.  Summer recruitment that saw Paul Raven and Michael Jeffrey come in for the ever popular Mark Lever and Ashcroft/Lester didn't help either.  

Lennie had massive funds to throw it at and boy did he use them.  Even still we only just stayed up at the death.  Can guarantee that had Buckley stayed in charge, we would have gone down that season with a whimper.  I suspect he wouldn't have had the funds to play with that Lennie had though.


I was quite cheerful and everything seemed to be ok today and then you had to go and mention Michael Jeffrey. I am currently in a dark room with a wet towel on my forehead and breathing into a paper bag. My wife is rubbing my chest and singing 'Warm Kitty' to me.


Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
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Mappers
May 17, 2024, 4:48pm
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Quoted from GrimRob
Everyone else can see how deluded other fans are, but none of us can see it in ourselves.

Exhibit A: Alan Buckley's final game in 2000 was a 1-1 draw at Portsmouth in the Championship. Many fans were delighted, although lots weren't.


Lee Nogan was apparently .

I will add a bit - Sir Alan was effectively playing like a lot of teams do now or at least want to , If I remember correctly by the end it became even more possession based (I'm sure big Artell would have loved it as we must have been completing over the 600 passes a game he craves ) 4-5-1 with Lee Nogan putting in a heavy shift up top by himself whicg he seemed to endure rather than enjoy weekly . The cry of 'get it forward ' from the main stand was never so strong as in that season .... we just didn't know how good we had it : Prosinecki , Merson , Duff , Tugay and all at BP at some point around that time with many more 'big names ' I can't currently remember .
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arryarryarry
May 17, 2024, 7:58pm
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If anyone should have been sacked then it was their keeper, he was pretty hopeless.
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Kris2
May 17, 2024, 11:55pm
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Quoted from Mappers


Lee Nogan was apparently .

I will add a bit - Sir Alan was effectively playing like a lot of teams do now or at least want to , If I remember correctly by the end it became even more possession based (I'm sure big Artell would have loved it as we must have been completing over the 600 passes a game he craves ) 4-5-1 with Lee Nogan putting in a heavy shift up top by himself whicg he seemed to endure rather than enjoy weekly . The cry of 'get it forward ' from the main stand was never so strong as in that season .... we just didn't know how good we had it : Prosinecki , Merson , Duff , Tugay and all at BP at some point around that time with many more 'big names ' I can't currently remember .


For all the talk of how Buckley had us playing now among fans, people sure did hate it at the time lol. I think it just proves that no matter who is in charge and how we play, the main stand is always the stand for the complainer. Still remember lots of complaints about tippy-tap football and triangle passes that don't go anywhere. Think Buckley was stitched up that summer though by a new board that wanted to put their own stamp on the team by bringing in their guy and giving him the resources. We spunked tons of money on recruitment but somehow had no money for Buckley that summer who had to settle for two poor signings on a free after being told to sell his best asset the previous season.

As for big names I remember a young Ashley Cole on the BP pitch long before he became a big superstar married to a pop star. There was a bit of buzz around him as a hot prospect while on loan at Crystal Palace and by the next season he'd be a first team player at Arsenal.  
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forza ivano
May 18, 2024, 12:40am

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Interesting.  Too late to look into it properly. but wonder if there are parallels between the demise of long serving, over achieving but come to the end of the road  managers ie Hurst n Buckley
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Mappers
May 18, 2024, 6:46am
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Quoted from Kris2


For all the talk of how Buckley had us playing now among fans, people sure did hate it at the time lol. I think it just proves that no matter who is in charge and how we play, the main stand is always the stand for the complainer. Still remember lots of complaints about tippy-tap football and triangle passes that don't go anywhere. Think Buckley was stitched up that summer though by a new board that wanted to put their own stamp on the team by bringing in their guy and giving him the resources. We spunked tons of money on recruitment but somehow had no money for Buckley that summer who had to settle for two poor signings on a free after being told to sell his best asset the previous season.

As for big names I remember a young Ashley Cole on the BP pitch long before he became a big superstar married to a pop star. There was a bit of buzz around him as a hot prospect while on loan at Crystal Palace and by the next season he'd be a first team player at Arsenal.  


There is a good one - Dimitrios Papadopolous - played for Burnley that season at BP as a kid . Went on to play and win Euro 2004 with Greece .

Ashley Cole was quality even at that stage I remember him for Palace . Matt Upson & Phil Jagielka 2 more that went on to have good careers . Darren Bent at Ipswich . There must be loads  
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RonMariner
May 18, 2024, 9:30pm

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Brighton manager gone too,
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crusty ole pie
May 19, 2024, 8:21am

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Quoted from RonMariner
Brighton manager gone too,


Sacked ? Absolute madness if that’s the case
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forza ivano
May 19, 2024, 8:27am

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Quoted from crusty ole pie


Sacked ? Absolute madness if that’s the case


Mutual decision. Owner has set plan, but manager wanted to progress faster, so they have agreed to part ways
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Maringer
May 19, 2024, 8:46am
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I think it's more a case of De Zerbi saying, 'I'm off', as much as anything else. Realistically, Brighton aren't ever going to be able to achieve much more than they already have, perhaps the odd Cup run in the F.A. Cup or Europa/Europa Conference League. I reckon he wants to leave to get the chance of winning something.
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Abdul19
May 19, 2024, 9:46am

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Been phoning it in the last few months anyway.


JESUS AT THE CENTRE
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forza ivano
May 19, 2024, 11:11pm

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just  anote , with Klopp leaving Artell is now the 55th longest serving manager , with less than 6 months service. crazy world
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RonMariner
May 19, 2024, 11:16pm

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Quoted from forza ivano
just  anote , with Klopp leaving Artell is now the 55th longest serving manager , with less than 6 months service. crazy world


No doubt a few more will get canned before the season starts too.
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diehardmariner
May 20, 2024, 10:06am
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Quoted from Mappers


Lee Nogan was apparently .

I will add a bit - Sir Alan was effectively playing like a lot of teams do now or at least want to , If I remember correctly by the end it became even more possession based (I'm sure big Artell would have loved it as we must have been completing over the 600 passes a game he craves ) 4-5-1 with Lee Nogan putting in a heavy shift up top by himself whicg he seemed to endure rather than enjoy weekly . The cry of 'get it forward ' from the main stand was never so strong as in that season .... we just didn't know how good we had it : Prosinecki , Merson , Duff , Tugay and all at BP at some point around that time with many more 'big names ' I can't currently remember .


If only it was that good in Buckley's final season.  Nogan left the summer of '99, having become a bit of the boo-boy target for his lack of goalscoring prowess, completely overlooking the sheer amount of donkey work he did for the team.  Minus he over-frequent back heels he was the Tony Rees of Buckley's second spell.

His final full season was so frustrating but hindsight definitely sits in his favour, we were definitely punching above our weight and within a few years of his sacking we dropped like a stone and haven't got close to returning since.  The possession game and the current clamour for it is an interesting point made, but it really lacked any potency.  Even the lesser teams who try to play that type of play, even thinking of those early hammerings under Artell, had something about them going forward.  We didn't, I'm not sure how much of that was down to the approach or the players available to Buckley at the time.  Recruitment generally hadn't been great.  Lee Ashcroft and Stacy Coldicott were good additions post the double winning season, then Alan Pouton, Danny Coyne and Bradley Allen the year after. But they were more about replacing than improving overall.  Then that final summer just did him.  One of the first things Lennie said when he came in was the team badly lacked pace, the line-up for Buckley's final home game was:

Coyne
Macca Raven Livvo Smith
Donovan Pouton Groves Black
             Clare Jeffrey

The final game away at Portsmouth was slightly different but equally painfully slow:

Coyne
Macca Raven Livvo Gallimore
Donovan Coldicott Groves Pouton Smith
                     Jeffrey

That all said, the last 10 league games under AB were against the following:

Barnsley
Huddersfield
Sheff Utd
Man City
Blackburn
West Brom
Tranmere
Birmingham
Preston
Portsmouth

We definitely didn't know how good we had it.
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sam gy
May 20, 2024, 10:18am
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I have never seen a slower player than Jeffrey.


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jamesgtfc
May 20, 2024, 10:20am
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Quoted from sam gy
I have never seen a slower player than Jeffrey.


Paul Warhurst and Peter Beagrie?
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diehardmariner
May 20, 2024, 10:39am
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I'd put Gary Silk in that category too.  Joined us when he was 26 but ran like he was 106.
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Poojah
May 20, 2024, 10:49am
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Paul Raven. Steve Chettle. Futch. Damian Spencer. Mark Smith. Matt Heywood. Darren Kempson. Martin Mackintosh. Neil Webb.  

In no particular order. All slow as fúck as far as I can recall, Futch being the obvious exception in that he was still absolutely brilliant for us, such was his footballing brain. The others significantly less so.


A smooth sea never made a skillful mariner.
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diehardmariner
May 20, 2024, 10:59am
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Not Mark Smith as in the left winger, ex-Huddersfield and went onto Scunny?  He was pretty quick!  

Good shout on Webb though, although I imagine he was a lot quicker when he was 3stone lighter.  Incredible to think 4 years from playing in Euro92 for England he was squeezing into a Town kit.  Could still play, that much was clear, but his mobility was just non-existent.  Was like the Sunday League 'good touch for a big man' type.  

Chettle was one of those players who found his legs just gave out rather than slowly left him.  Could see he still knew how to play the game, just body decided it wouldn't allow it.  Not saying he was in the same class as Futch, but Chettle didn't have that benefit of fairly mobile players around him.  In fact we had quite a slow defence that season (Groves one side of him, Darren Barnard the other).  
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Poojah
May 20, 2024, 11:04am
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Quoted from diehardmariner
Not Mark Smith as in the left winger, ex-Huddersfield and went onto Scunny?  He was pretty quick!  

Good shout on Webb though, although I imagine he was a lot quicker when he was 3stone lighter.  Incredible to think 4 years from playing in Euro92 for England he was squeezing into a Town kit.  Could still play, that much was clear, but his mobility was just non-existent.  Was like the Sunday League 'good touch for a big man' type.  


Re: Smith, yeah, that’s the one. I’m remembering him through the eyes of a 6 or 7-year old, so I might be doing him a disservice, I can just remember him coming off the bench in an FA Cup replay (against Swansea, possibly?), and him looking like he was running through treacle.


A smooth sea never made a skillful mariner.
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davmariner
May 20, 2024, 11:08am
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Quoted from diehardmariner
I'd put Gary Silk in that category too.  Joined us when he was 26 but ran like he was 106.


Lee Ridley too.


Up The Mariners!
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diehardmariner
May 20, 2024, 11:15am
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Quoted from Poojah


Re: Smith, yeah, that’s the one. I’m remembering him through the eyes of a 6 or 7-year old, so I might be doing him a disservice, I can just remember him coming off the bench in an FA Cup replay (against Swansea, possibly?), and him looking like he was running through treacle.


Weirdly I came across this a couple of weeks ago thanks to the wonder that is the YouTube algorithm



Pitch looks heavy as.



Edit: Not sure why it won't play here, but I promise it's just Retro Football - not RetroPorn.
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diehardmariner
May 20, 2024, 11:20am
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Quoted from davmariner


Lee Ridley too.


To Ridley's defence, he was quick as a flash when it came to putting one on knife wielding wingers though.
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Maringer
May 20, 2024, 11:21am
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Smith wasn't a slow player. I can't even remember Mackintosh.

Matt Heywood had the turning circle of a supertanker. I seem to recall he signed to great fanfare as the Brentford player of the season? He must have had very good teammates around him to have somehow managed that.

Silk was even slower than Ridley, which is saying something, though the guy that sits near us didn't spend most of his time screaming abuse at Silk as he did at Ridley.
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diehardmariner
May 20, 2024, 11:29am
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McIntosh was a Graham Rodger signing, I seem to think he came similar time to Nick Fenton.  Big gap in the defence with the departure of Rob Jones.  He was alright but definitely at the end of his career.  I'm sure Rodger wanted to keep him but the Huddersfield boss, could have been Peter Jackson, recalled him just to leave him in the stands.  We got Andy Butler on loan instead who was woeful yet had a good lower league career throughout, just his short spell here which was a blot on his copybook.  
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Maringer
May 20, 2024, 11:31am
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Hmmm. Scottish defender with dark hair? I have a faint recollection of him if so, but it is flipping faint. These not-very-good defenders all blur into one.
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diehardmariner
May 20, 2024, 11:54am
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That's the one.  To be fair, there's a lot of dross in the last 20 years to blur into one big mess!
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Mappers
May 20, 2024, 1:56pm
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Quoted from diehardmariner


If only it was that good in Buckley's final season.  Nogan left the summer of '99, having become a bit of the boo-boy target for his lack of goalscoring prowess, completely overlooking the sheer amount of donkey work he did for the team.  Minus he over-frequent back heels he was the Tony Rees of Buckley's second spell.

His final full season was so frustrating but hindsight definitely sits in his favour, we were definitely punching above our weight and within a few years of his sacking we dropped like a stone and haven't got close to returning since.  The possession game and the current clamour for it is an interesting point made, but it really lacked any potency.  Even the lesser teams who try to play that type of play, even thinking of those early hammerings under Artell, had something about them going forward.  We didn't, I'm not sure how much of that was down to the approach or the players available to Buckley at the time.  Recruitment generally hadn't been great.  Lee Ashcroft and Stacy Coldicott were good additions post the double winning season, then Alan Pouton, Danny Coyne and Bradley Allen the year after. But they were more about replacing than improving overall.  Then that final summer just did him.  One of the first things Lennie said when he came in was the team badly lacked pace, the line-up for Buckley's final home game was:

Coyne
Macca Raven Livvo Smith
Donovan Pouton Groves Black
             Clare Jeffrey

The final game away at Portsmouth was slightly different but equally painfully slow:

Coyne
Macca Raven Livvo Gallimore
Donovan Coldicott Groves Pouton Smith
                     Jeffrey

That all said, the last 10 league games under AB were against the following:

Barnsley
Huddersfield
Sheff Utd
Man City
Blackburn
West Brom
Tranmere
Birmingham
Preston
Portsmouth

We definitely didn't know how good we had it.


Was it the previous season Nogan got hooked then ?
I was  100% sure Buckley hooked him and they had a ding dong on the touchlineat BP and was sure it was against Pompey but maybe against
someone else ..... or my mind is playing tricks on me

#GotMyFactsWrong
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Abdul19
May 20, 2024, 3:00pm

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According to Soccerbase, Nogan's last game for us was May 1999 v Tranmere. He got subbed after 26 minutes for Daryl Clare so maybe that one?

(Clare scored the only goal of the game 8 minutes later  )


JESUS AT THE CENTRE
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diehardmariner
May 20, 2024, 3:52pm
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Any fall out with Nogan has completely escaped me.  Definitely was a fall-out with Ashcroft and he seemed to have a colourful relationship with Clare too.  I vaguely remember hearing an ex-striker, I forgot who (might have been Livvo on the DN35 interview) that he was notoriously hard to please as a striker because he still thought he was better than them all.  I suppose a bit like Glenn Hoddle, just minus Eileen Drewery.

Quoted Text
Ultimately, the Grimsby crowd got on his back for his lack of goals, and he infamously made some on-the-pitch comments and gestures towards fans in the home tie against Tranmere, only to be substituted by Buckley after only half-an-hour as a result


https://thefishy.co.uk/story.php?id=8092400
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Mappers
May 20, 2024, 4:50pm
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Quoted from diehardmariner
Any fall out with Nogan has completely escaped me.  Definitely was a fall-out with Ashcroft and he seemed to have a colourful relationship with Clare too.  I vaguely remember hearing an ex-striker, I forgot who (might have been Livvo on the DN35 interview) that he was notoriously hard to please as a striker because he still thought he was better than them all.  I suppose a bit like Glenn Hoddle, just minus Eileen Drewery.



https://thefishy.co.uk/story.php?id=8092400


Nice one mate , joined the dots it was that . I thought he was pointing and making gestures at Buckley , but going off that it sounds like it was some of our regulars instead !
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WOZOFGRIMSBY
May 21, 2024, 7:33pm

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Pochetino has left Chelsea now 😳

De zerbi there next at a guess


Rose is on fire

And your scotch eggs are fu(king vile
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Limerick Mariner
May 21, 2024, 8:42pm
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Quoted from diehardmariner


If only it was that good in Buckley's final season.  Nogan left the summer of '99, having become a bit of the boo-boy target for his lack of goalscoring prowess, completely overlooking the sheer amount of donkey work he did for the team.  Minus he over-frequent back heels he was the Tony Rees of Buckley's second spell.

His final full season was so frustrating but hindsight definitely sits in his favour, we were definitely punching above our weight and within a few years of his sacking we dropped like a stone and haven't got close to returning since.  The possession game and the current clamour for it is an interesting point made, but it really lacked any potency.  Even the lesser teams who try to play that type of play, even thinking of those early hammerings under Artell, had something about them going forward.  We didn't, I'm not sure how much of that was down to the approach or the players available to Buckley at the time.  Recruitment generally hadn't been great.  Lee Ashcroft and Stacy Coldicott were good additions post the double winning season, then Alan Pouton, Danny Coyne and Bradley Allen the year after. But they were more about replacing than improving overall.  Then that final summer just did him.  One of the first things Lennie said when he came in was the team badly lacked pace, the line-up for Buckley's final home game was:

Coyne
Macca Raven Livvo Smith
Donovan Pouton Groves Black
             Clare Jeffrey

The final game away at Portsmouth was slightly different but equally painfully slow:

Coyne
Macca Raven Livvo Gallimore
Donovan Coldicott Groves Pouton Smith
                     Jeffrey

That all said, the last 10 league games under AB were against the following:

Barnsley
Huddersfield
Sheff Utd
Man City
Blackburn
West Brom
Tranmere
Birmingham
Preston
Portsmouth

We definitely didn't know how good we had it.


Well 5 of those clubs were league opposition in the consecutive promotion seasons of 78/79 and 79/80 and at the time I would have only said Portsmouth and Sheff Utd of those 5 were much bigger clubs than us, Tranmere must have been relegated from Div 3 when we were promoted from Div 4 and were a minnow playing Friday nights with crowds of about 2k. All the smaller clubs on that list have developed their grounds or moved. It’s not a case of we didn’t know how good we had it, more that we’ve completely regressed in a relative sense.

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RonMariner
May 21, 2024, 10:24pm

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Quoted from WOZOFGRIMSBY
Pochetino has left Chelsea now 😳



This is a surprise given how well they have been playing recently. He has turned them round in recent months and got them into 6th and most likely a Europa league slot.

But then again the this is Chelsea. Six managers in five years. Crazy.
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