Who pays the bills when JF has had enough.

The bills will get paid as they get paid now. JF hasn't put any money in for years as mariner91 points out.

Some people seem to be happy with the idea that a rich man can call the shots all the time and intercourse the club up because he lent the club some money years ago. Some people are happy to go along with this because they believe their 'entertainment' is subsidised by this rich man.

Utter self-deluding, forelock tugging nonsense.

Quoted from Grim up north

For the record I appreciate people's views /feeling the need to protest and also believe we need a change of management and fresh faces added to the board.
What I can't get my head round is the level of abuse aimed at JF both on here and in public which hit a new low with him being taped on the sly whilst giving his honest opinion to a fan ....proper c***** trick in my eyes.

JF has made a fair few mistakes all well documented and gone over a thousand times but has anyone on here who constantly slates him thought about who is going to be around to pay the daily bills and day to day running involved in a football league club when the fairy godmother doesn't step in his shoes.

Feel free to back up your Red Cross with viable solutions.

Good question, perhaps you could send an e-mail together with your bank details and suggestions to stephen@gtfc.co.uk

The question of what he has and hasn't put in recently is irrelevant the more pressing question is more around what options we have moving forward.

I suspect that the last significant sum he put on the table was as per various reported pieces the money we need ed for Wembley (both trips?) in 2016. That would not just be the cost of the trip, suits, accommodation etc.. I am sure it would also have been a bonus pot for the players. He took that back out of the Bogle money which is fair enough in my view, the less debt the club has the better.

So where are we?

- John has said he will move over and will not immediately take his money back.
- His caveat is someone has to have "the wherewithal", which I assume would be some capital & expertise
- Will the other directors would move over so do we need a new "non-chairman" or a new board..
- There are no credible takers.  

So if someone came in looking at the accounts etc.. they would inherent a "business" that appears,

- To be run very lean, in fact in some aspects too lean
- A cash flow that can be really impacted by low gates.
- Big funding streams like the drip down TV money that you can't control.
- A working capital that appears very thin.  
- A break-even point that is very fragile and failure to achieve that will cause problems very quickly.
- The point above has the most influence on the quality of the playing squad.    
- A fixed asset in BP that is severely dilapidated
- Unless we re-locate there is very little opportunity to grow this business  
- Many "customers" have chosen to spend their money elsewhere and getting them back will be hard  
- All of the above means that you cannot attract he talent you need to be successful.
- The staff (players) have too much power and their poor performance can ruin things over night

So what do we do?

The first thing you do is to change the club to a joint venture partnership. This will allow John to keep the asset value and effectively just become a B shares director. If a buyer came in he would get money back but would not be involved in the day to day running of the club/business.

You then can recruit paid A share directors who,

- Buy a very small amount of shares for a nominal amount, usually in JVP models £50, if the business actually has trading value the share price can be more.
  
- Are accountable for the management of the club.

- Will have the relevant backgrounds & expertise to add value on and off the pitch.

These directors are not in real terms employed by the club so JF could not order them to do things  as they would have a service agreement which supports collaborative working. Their remuneration would be by form of a reasonable salary and distributions form profits based upon equity.

If the club makes a profit the can have a share but legally they can't take what they like and their distributions could only be taken after a working playing and operating budget had been agreed and moved to a separate account, The playing budget would just be a percentage of income and trading forecast..

The above sounds like a "mad cap scheme" but if anyone would care to do their research one of the UK's most successful family/privately owned retail business's operates this model and has grown to a world wide player.        


What are the benefits? Away from potentially financial the main benefits are that John can step aside and won't be able to `dabble or interfere in the day to day running of the club. Also as the club generates profit and the A shares take distributions they can use that money to buy the club back from JF if they choose to but they will not be obliged to do so.

We can recruit directors who have expertise in both football club management and the football business which is what is missing and has caught us out consistently over the years JF has been involved.  

Quoted from HertsGTFC

The question of what he has and hasn't put in recently is irrelevant the more pressing question is more around what options we have moving forward.

I suspect that the last significant sum he put on the table was as per various reported pieces the money we need ed for Wembley (both trips?) in 2016. That would not just be the cost of the trip, suits, accommodation etc.. I am sure it would also have been a bonus pot for the players. He took that back out of the Bogle money which is fair enough in my view, the less debt the club has the better.

So where are we?

- John has said he will move over and will not immediately take his money back.
- His caveat is someone has to have "the wherewithal", which I assume would be some capital & expertise
- Will the other directors would move over so do we need a new "non-chairman" or a new board..
- There are no credible takers.  

So if someone came in looking at the accounts etc.. they would inherent a "business" that appears,

- To be run very lean, in fact in some aspects too lean
- A cash flow that can be really impacted by low gates.
- Big funding streams like the drip down TV money that you can't control.
- A working capital that appears very thin.  
- A break-even point that is very fragile and failure to achieve that will cause problems very quickly.
- The point above has the most influence on the quality of the playing squad.    
- A fixed asset in BP that is severely dilapidated
- Unless we re-locate there is very little opportunity to grow this business  
- Many "customers" have chosen to spend their money elsewhere and getting them back will be hard  
- All of the above means that you cannot attract he talent you need to be successful.
- The staff (players) have too much power and their poor performance can ruin things over night

So what do we do?

The first thing you do is to change the club to a joint venture partnership. This will allow John to keep the asset value and effectively just become a B shares director. If a buyer came in he would get money back but would not be involved in the day to day running of the club/business.

You then can recruit paid A share directors who,

- Buy a very small amount of shares for a nominal amount, usually in JVP models £50, if the business actually has trading value the share price can be more.
  
- Are accountable for the management of the club.

- Will have the relevant backgrounds & expertise to add value on and off the pitch.

These directors are not in real terms employed by the club so JF could not order them to do things  as they would have a service agreement which supports collaborative working. Their remuneration would be by form of a reasonable salary and distributions form profits based upon equity.

If the club makes a profit the can have a share but legally they can't take what they like and their distributions could only be taken after a working playing and operating budget had been agreed and moved to a separate account, The playing budget would just be a percentage of income and trading forecast..

The above sounds like a "mad cap scheme" but if anyone would care to do their research one of the UK's most successful family/privately owned retail business's operates this model and has grown to a world wide player.        


What are the benefits? Away from potentially financial the main benefits are that John can step aside and won't be able to `dabble or interfere in the day to day running of the club. Also as the club generates profit and the A shares take distributions they can use that money to buy the club back from JF if they choose to but they will not be obliged to do so.

We can recruit directors who have expertise in both football club management and the football business which is what is missing and has caught us out consistently over the years JF has been involved.  

Excellent objective analysis HertsGTFC!

To play devil's advocate to the original post can we afford for him not to step down? We had 3,300 yesterday, 5,500 less than Lincoln and 14,000 less than Notts County. While we stand still others are moving forward and leaving us behind.

Quoted from bradzmilne

I'm not going to pretend I know a great deal about the finances of running a football club.

However, if JF does decide to walk away (which personally I think is increasingly likely - rightly or wrongly).

What would our revenue actually need to be ? Because looking at the situation from a completely lehmans view - surely it would possible for the club to create enough revenue from TV rights, ticket sales, prize money etc. To be sustainable ? The reason why clubs spend money they cannot afford is because they want success - if we can all accept that we're in desperate need of stability prior to moving forward - id be willing to accept mediocre for the time being to achieve that.

I also feel, there is an argument that if fans knew how directly ticket sales would be impacting the club without a 'major investor' they would naturally increase. Giving us additional revenue to break even with.

We'd have to be a lot more financially witty but if we made cuts in the correct areas I think that would be possible ?

I firmly believe that there would be life in the club after JF. The fear of the unknown is terrifying but even as a worst case scenario I think we'd have to adjust our belt accordingly it wouldn't be fatal.  

Being sustainable is one thing, moving forward and growing is another and something we desperately need to do.

I don’t buy that fans will be happy to tread water if it means having a fan owned club. We all know that as soon as results get bad, the fans turn. There was barely a whisper of FENTY OUT whilst in the national league, because we were winning most weeks. It all started again when we got promoted and realised we’re no longer a big fish in a small pond.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

The question of what he has and hasn't put in recently is irrelevant the more pressing question is more around what options we have moving forward.

I suspect that the last significant sum he put on the table was as per various reported pieces the money we need ed for Wembley (both trips?) in 2016. That would not just be the cost of the trip, suits, accommodation etc.. I am sure it would also have been a bonus pot for the players. He took that back out of the Bogle money which is fair enough in my view, the less debt the club has the better.

So where are we?

- John has said he will move over and will not immediately take his money back.
- His caveat is someone has to have "the wherewithal", which I assume would be some capital & expertise
- Will the other directors would move over so do we need a new "non-chairman" or a new board..
- There are no credible takers.  

So if someone came in looking at the accounts etc.. they would inherent a "business" that appears,

- To be run very lean, in fact in some aspects too lean
- A cash flow that can be really impacted by low gates.
- Big funding streams like the drip down TV money that you can't control.
- A working capital that appears very thin.  
- A break-even point that is very fragile and failure to achieve that will cause problems very quickly.
- The point above has the most influence on the quality of the playing squad.    
- A fixed asset in BP that is severely dilapidated
- Unless we re-locate there is very little opportunity to grow this business  
- Many "customers" have chosen to spend their money elsewhere and getting them back will be hard  
- All of the above means that you cannot attract he talent you need to be successful.
- The staff (players) have too much power and their poor performance can ruin things over night

So what do we do?

The first thing you do is to change the club to a joint venture partnership. This will allow John to keep the asset value and effectively just become a B shares director. If a buyer came in he would get money back but would not be involved in the day to day running of the club/business.

You then can recruit paid A share directors who,

- Buy a very small amount of shares for a nominal amount, usually in JVP models £50, if the business actually has trading value the share price can be more.
  
- Are accountable for the management of the club.

- Will have the relevant backgrounds & expertise to add value on and off the pitch.

These directors are not in real terms employed by the club so JF could not order them to do things  as they would have a service agreement which supports collaborative working. Their remuneration would be by form of a reasonable salary and distributions form profits based upon equity.

If the club makes a profit the can have a share but legally they can't take what they like and their distributions could only be taken after a working playing and operating budget had been agreed and moved to a separate account, The playing budget would just be a percentage of income and trading forecast..

The above sounds like a "mad cap scheme" but if anyone would care to do their research one of the UK's most successful family/privately owned retail business's operates this model and has grown to a world wide player.        


What are the benefits? Away from potentially financial the main benefits are that John can step aside and won't be able to `dabble or interfere in the day to day running of the club. Also as the club generates profit and the A shares take distributions they can use that money to buy the club back from JF if they choose to but they will not be obliged to do so.

We can recruit directors who have expertise in both football club management and the football business which is what is missing and has caught us out consistently over the years JF has been involved.  

Email it to John and ask for a reply, great post by the way and shows the Fentyistas there is a way forward without him being involved. As M91 pointed out The accounts show that he hasn't put in any money for about five years. The fans pay the bills as they would continue to do so. It is a myth that Fenty props the club up financially. No wonder we stagnate, his business decisions have only taken us downwards.

Quoted from Marinerz93

Email it to John and ask for a reply, great post by the way and shows the Fentyistas there is a way forward without him being involved. As M91 pointed out The accounts show that he hasn't put in any money for about five years. The fans pay the bills as they would continue to do so. It is a myth that Fenty props the club up financially. No wonder we stagnate, his business decisions have only taken us downwards.

I tried to PM him but it wouldn't send so if anyone knows a better way or can send me the correct spelling of his profile I'd be grateful.

This could be done and is an alternative to what we have heard before.

Quoted from Vance Warner

To play devil's advocate to the original post can we afford for him not to step down? We had 3,300 yesterday, 5,500 less than Lincoln and 14,000 less than Notts County. While we stand still others are moving forward and leaving us behind.

Purely and simply because of (current) success on the pitch.

In that regard Fenty can only affect things in two ways

1 A change of manager (will cost money)
2 New better players (will cost money)

He has to increase his 'benign' debt by making even more loans - vicious circle innit?

Quoted from HertsGTFC

I tried to PM him but it wouldn't send so if anyone knows a better way or can send me the correct spelling of his profile I'd be grateful.

This could be done and is an alternative to what we have heard before.

Alternative is print it off and send it registered post. I feel what you have put down is fantastic and it gives Fenty a credible way of leaving without things getting worse. How soon could your plan be implemented?