We're out of the EU!

Quoted from Hagrid

I will never say this was a good decision, 75%. Say it again 75% of 18-24 years olds, including myself, voted to remain in the EU. This is my future, and we have left through votes of those these decisions wont affect. Its a democracy, but that isnt fair, the young have been well and truly shafted, again!! Its an uncertain time, very worrying, and all i can say is i hope your dam flipping proud of yourselves

Britain will be back at some point. After Scotland rejoins in a few years time and the EU, which is only a young institution, sorts some of its teething problems out, we'll be back, cap in hand, wanting to join up again. You just need to wait for the Daily Mail generation to die off.

Quoted from MarinerMal

You say these things as if they are EU issues. They aren't they are UK issues. Just because we are no longer part of the EU doesn't mean Tesco will up there wages and seasonal fruit pickers will get a rise. How about those Brits get out and earn their money instead of excepting hand outs from the state, rather than say it doesn't pay enough for me? If you haven't got a job...

You're getting perilously close to 'The English won't pick spuds, too lazy' so, as someone who's recently dealt with these matters and has seen first hand how this works and the money/bias involved I'm going to bow out. But for someone who's going around accusing people of ignorance you seem to be wrapped up in your own little ignorant world.

Quoted from James77

It's partly because of EU enabling capital and labour to move freely within its boundaries. So manufacturing industry has migrated from the UK to Eastern Europe, where wages are far lower

The manufacturing industry was moving from this country long before the EU was even in force.

Quoted from forza ivano

JAMES - this has all the hallmarks of a complete ballsup. there are so many implications that nobody has thought of . take fishing , yeah we can impose our own fishing boundaries, but what if we need to go fishing in other waters? who's going to police our waters? we've only got a couple of patrol boats. who's going do all this fishing? we haven't got a fleet left.
what's going to happen to agriculture? Many farmers depend greatly on the CAP.
what happens if and when Scotland leaves? What do we do about the border with Eire? What are the implications for Northern Ireland and particularly Gibraltar?   How are we going to maintain our position as a financial capital of the world? What happens to the thousands of OAP's living in Spain? What happens to Education, the NHS , social services etc when the inevitable cuts following a recession are imposed?

It'll take a while to work through. I'm not an expert and won't pretend to have all the answers, but here goes...

Fishing - UK territorial waters would include the bulk of Europe's most productive grounds. Norway and Russia (definitely not allies) manage the Barents Sea well enough between them - sustainable cod quota just under 1 million tonnes last time I looked (20x North Sea). Why do we need to be part of the EU to manage our own fishing grounds? We can work in collaboration with the EU to set quotas in areas like the North Sea. This already happens but it's the EU that negotiates with Norway in the Northern North Sea (for example), not the UK. Reciprocal access agreements would remain. We do have a fleet left and it will grow - the money these days is in catching fish (subject to quota), not processing. The priority is to allow the fleet to survive - hard to do when (for example) the largest fishing effort in the Bristol Channel is by Belgian trawlers, not Welsh, Irish or English. The UK is already responsible for patrolling and enforcing quotas and other regulations within its waters, in accordance with EU rules

Scotland - arguably one of the trickiest issues. SNP got the result they wanted last night to pursue independence. Personally I've never been much bothered about Scottish independence but I recognise others will be

NI - majority still want to be in the UK. Even during the troubles (and pre-EU), access and trade across the border was strong and will continue to be so

Farmers - UK subsidies to replace CAP. Most young farmers voted Brexit - CAP favours the bigger and richer operators, so I'm told

Financial services - massive subsidy, public policy skewed towards it for so long creating massive imbalance in UK economy that has resulted in results like last night. As London Mayor, Boris was fierce in defending the sector and would do so again, but I'm realistic enough to expect some movement towards Frankfurt etc

I could chuck loads of questions back but I'm not angry or into mammary-for-tat. Neither vote in this referendum presents perfect options. I decided that the least bad option was Brexit

Who knew it, turkeys do actually vote for Christmas!

Younger people voted overwhelmingly to remain. And so it looks like the older generations have swung this in Leave's favour due to their latent xenophobia. The people for whom this vote mattered the least have swung it off their own bloated sense of nationalistic self importance. Way to go pops!

And isn't it funny how a lot of people who voted leave are the same kind of people who make the most commotion when Argentina pipe up about The Falklands or Spain make noises about Gibraltar. Yet now they've left Gibraltar out to dry, seemingly without a care.

Oh and goodbye United Kingdom.

What a great day.

Quoted from MarinerMal

The manufacturing industry was moving from this country long before the EU was even in force.

True, but the EU has helped to accelerate this shift

Quoted from grimsby pete

There's a lot of sore losers on here today,

Mal you think its going to be all doom and gloom,

Well that's another lie you were fed,

Have a bit of faith in your own country we will be better of you wait and see.

Oh well if you say it's going to be alright, despite the overwhelming predictions from experts that it won't be, with no evidence of your own that it will be and no response to the myriad of problems we're going to face which have been articulately put across by more knowledgeable posters on here then that's fine then.

Hagrid was right. The older generation, such as yourself Pete, and I'm not meaning to pick entirely on you but you're the one on this thread who has made a comment which sums it up, have shafted my generation. Your (generations)belief that it will be alright despite the predictions by independent experts that it won't be is so infuriating. It encapsulates the fact that our population is leaning towards an anti-intellectual consensus summed up by Gove when he said we're "fed up of listening to experts". Well if we're not going to listen to the experts then who the fuck are we meant to listen to? How stupid must we look to the rest of the world?! From their neutral, objective stance they've seen us vote against what is commonly thought to be the best way forward which, unfortunately for them, will also impact their economies to some degree.

Your generation had cheap housing, free education, social mobility, an economy on the up and the ability to manufacture things. We've got none of that. We must be the first generation in history that is significantly worse off than the generation that left before. I hope you're all proud. And why have you sold us down the river? Because, and I quote "you can't walk 50 yards in the town without hearing a foreign language", you said that in the discussion further on the other forum. Well bra-fucking-vo, we're all very grateful that your inwards looking, xenophobic attitude came before our future prosperity. The worst thing about the over 65s clinching the Leave win is that you won't even be around to face the consequences for too long and you're all retired so won't have to suffer the hardships it's going to bring as much. Your generation got wealthy off the back of the EU. Before joining our economy was the slowest growing out of the G7 countries, it grew the quickest once we were a member. But that is something you've all denied our generation now.

Both sides in this referendum have been utterly awful. But the amount of lies, fear mongering and xenophobia from the Leave campaign has been disgusting. Even today, I have had people argue with me that we'll have £350 million a week to spend now despite the fact that many independents have shown this to be nowhere near the case. They plastered it on their bus for fuck sake and kept it even when they proved to be liars.

This referendum should have never have taken place. An issue as complex and emotive as this should have been made by the people who are elected to understand the impact a decision could have and are there to make the important decisions for us. It is extremely telling that one of the biggest differences between Remain and Leave voters is level of education and I'm sorry to say it, but that is a downside to democracy; the stupid get as much say as the intelligent. I think it was John Stuart Mill who suggested that the higher educated you are the more weight your vote should carry and certainly with something like this, where a lot of people seem to have literally no clue about the ramifications, it should have been that way.

I saw a post doing the round on social media and it struck a chord because it's very true:
"A quick note on the first three tragedies. Firstly, it was the working classes who voted for us to leave because they were economically disregarded and it is they who will suffer most in the short term from the dearth of jobs and investment. They have merely swapped one distant and unreachable elite for another one.
Secondly, the younger generation has lost the right live and work in 27 other countries. We will never know the full extent of the lost opportunities, friendships, marriages and experiences we will be denied. Freedom of movement was taken away by our parents, uncles and grandparents in a parting blow to a generation that was already drowning in the debt of our predecessors.
Thirdly and perhaps most signifcantly, we now live in a post-factual democracy. When the facts met the myths they were as useless as bullets bouncing off the bodies of aliens in a HG Wells novel. When Michael Gove said "the British people are sick of experts" he was right. But can anybody tell me the last time a prevailing culture of anti-intellectualism has lead to anything other than bigotry?"

A great and pertinent post from someone who, like myself, will now suffer thanks to other generations. I am fortunate in that the qualification I'm studying for will still enable me to work in many other countries relatively easily should I choose to. The majority are not so lucky.

Scotland will leave now and the UK will break up. That will further impact the economy and be a real ballache to sort out, not to mention expensive. A dark, dark day in our history.

james - i hope you're right but i see all sorts of holes. for example how are you going to afford farming subsidies in a recession? how are you going to police a 200 mile territorial waters fishing zone with 2 or 3 patrol boats?
however the scariest thing is that even the experts admit that they don't know what is going to happen. that for politicians and experts is incredible. economists, constitutional experts, politicians can usually give you a cogent argument/case to support their view. now they are completely open in saying they haven't got a clue as to how this is going to pan out.

at the moment the only certainty is that we have uncertainty which is what the markets and business hate. We can also say that if the pound continues at this level then imports will cost more, and remember we have a huge imbalance in this area. that inevitably leads to inflation and that isn't usually good news

Quoted from Hagrid

I will never say this was a good decision, 75%. Say it again 75% of 18-24 years olds, including myself, voted to remain in the EU. This is my future, and we have left through votes of those these decisions wont affect. Its a democracy, but that isnt fair, the young have been well and truly shafted, again!! Its an uncertain time, very worrying, and all i can say is i hope your dam flipping proud of yourselves

Are you suggesting we have separate age categories for voting or that anyone over the age of 25's view won't count?  To many mystic megs around and people can moan all they like but there is nothing you can do about it now.

I don't know how to transfer graphics in these posts, but th below link makes you wonder ... doesn't it ?