We ARE worse than last year !!!

When you do a comparison with the first 18 games of last season we are worse under Shouty and shorty !

Points Total  - Neil Woods had 25 points after 18 games. Shouty and Shorty have 20 !
We've conceded more goals under the chuckle brothers than with Neil Woods and the final Nail in the coffin is that attendances are massively down from last year !

It seems unbelievable to me that some people who were screaming for Neil Woods to be sacked so early on in his first full season as boss are quite happy and willing to stick up for these two jokers when they are shittier than Woods !!

For comparison on how we're doing all we can really do is check where we where last season and i'm sorry but it's unmitigated proof that we really are going backwards !!!!
UTM    

Quoted from Koggmaster

When you do a comparison with the first 18 games of last season we are worse under Shouty and shorty !

Points Total  - Neil Woods had 25 points after 18 games. Shouty and Shorty have 20 !
We've conceded more goals under the chuckle brothers than with Neil Woods and the final Nail in the coffin is that attendances are massively down from last year !

It seems unbelievable to me that some people who were screaming for Neil Woods to be sacked so early on in his first full season as boss are quite happy and willing to stick up for these two jokers when they are shittier than Woods !!

For comparison on how we're doing all we can really do is check where we where last season and i'm sorry but it's unmitigated proof that we really are going backwards !!!!
UTM    

No excrement Sherlock.

Quoted from Koggmaster

When you do a comparison with the first 18 games of last season we are worse under Shouty and shorty !

Points Total  - Neil Woods had 25 points after 18 games. Shouty and Shorty have 20 !
We've conceded more goals under the chuckle brothers than with Neil Woods and the final Nail in the coffin is that attendances are massively down from last year !

It seems unbelievable to me that some people who were screaming for Neil Woods to be sacked so early on in his first full season as boss are quite happy and willing to stick up for these two jokers when they are shittier than Woods !!

For comparison on how we're doing all we can really do is check where we where last season and i'm sorry but it's unmitigated proof that we really are going backwards !!!!
UTM    

What is unbelievable about it?
Woods took Grimsby out of the league and then floundered in The BSP. Woods had no previous managerial period with which to compare and contrast, his only time in management is his failure at Blundell Park. H&S have an excellent record at both their previous clubs. It cannot be denied that their time at Grimsby has been disappointing so far, but it's still well under a year since they arrived. If a year from now there's no improvement it may be time to start wondering whether a change might be called for.

I'm no fan of the way the results have gone but to be fair, I'm not jumping onto any bandwagon or joining a hater club of whoever is in charge of the Club . End of this season, start of next season I might consider slagging off our managers wanting them out, but far too soon atm!

Quoted from ROKERITE

What is unbelievable about it?
Woods took Grimsby out of the league and then floundered in The BSP. Woods had no previous managerial period with which to compare and contrast, his only time in management is his failure at Blundell Park. H&S have an excellent record at both their previous clubs. It cannot be denied that their time at Grimsby has been disappointing so far, but it's still well under a year since they arrived. If a year from now there's no improvement it may be time to start wondering whether a change might be called for.

In the grounds of fairness both management teams should be judged once they had signed their own players and had a full pre-season... Now if NW was a failure, these 2 are a disaster...

Previous management successes aren't going to gt us out of the shite they've created are they...???

I think it's become apparent that these 2 are good semi pro managers but when it comes to running a full time club, they are, erm, not very good...

Anyway why should we give them another year...??? Because you deem that to be fair...??? Well i'm sorry they said 15 games, they've had that and they are still as shite this season as they was with NW players at the end of last season...

Don't fotget Woods went 25 games without a win at the start of his spell in charge,

H  + S   have won 6 of their first 18 games,  

Quoted from grimsby pete

Don't fotget Woods went 25 games without a win at the start of his spell in charge,

H  + S   have won 6 of their first 18 games,  

Agreed but that was with the absolute pish that Newell had left him !!

There can be no doubt that when Woods had asembled his team for his first season in charge they were performing better in the league than the circus troop we are having to watch under Coco and Crusty !!!

They are clearly out of there depth but sacking them now would be crazy, there would have to be another pay off and theres still the fee to boston thats still needs to be paid,  So for me its a case of stick with what we've got reluctantly, and hope for the best until either their contract runs out or they decide to walk. but If at anytime from now we slip into the relegaton zone then the panic button needs to be pressed.

Quoted from 2578

They are clearly out of there depth but sacking them now would be crazy, there would have to be another pay off and theres still the fee to boston thats still needs to be paid,  So for me its a case of stick with what we've got reluctantly, and hope for the best until either their contract runs out or they decide to walk. but If at anytime from now we slip into the relegaton zone then the panic button needs to be pressed.

If we can not agree a fee with Boston,

Why can't we just send them back. ?  

Quoted from grimsby pete

Don't fotget Woods went 25 games without a win at the start of his spell in charge,

H  + S   have won 6 of their first 18 games,  

Hang on Pete, if we're going to quote stats let's make sure they're comparable! If you're going to give a stat for Neil Woods from his start as a manager you have to do the same for Paul Hurst and Rob Scott.

Rob Hurst and Paul Scott won 5 of their first 18 games in charge (2 in 10 last season and 3 from 8 this).

A valid comparison is either GTFC career comparison;

Neil Woods 18 wins in 71 matches - win percentage of 25.35%
Paul Hurst and Rob Scott 8 wins in 28 matches - win percentage of 28.57%

Or 'with their own squads';

Neil Woods 12 wins in 32 matches - 37.5%
Paul Hurst and Rob Scott 6 wins in 18 matches - 33.33%

Obviously, if you're a Neil Woods fan you would look at loss percentage because of the number of draws he had.

GTFC career;

Neil Woods 24 defeats in 71 matches - 33.80%
Paul Hurst and Rob Scott 14 defeats in 28 matches - 50%

'own squad'

Neil Woods 8 defeats in 32 matches - 25%
Paul Hurst and Rob Scott 10 defeats in 18 matches - 55.56%

Right, now I've done my statto impression if anyone wants me I'll be talking to the plant in the corner  

Quoted from Koggmaster

Agreed but that was with the absolute pish that Newell had left him !!

And he replaced that pish with.....Tommy Wright? We needed goals, Woods bought him, we went down.

We have tried sacking managers when things dont look rosey for the last god knows how many we have had and where are we?

These two have had success and came with an enviable managerial record in their short careers so far.  Teams at the top so far this season are fairly established teams who have built and improved over a couple of seasons whereas we have had virtually a new squad every year for 4/5/6 seasons now.
I would struggle to think who our current longest serving player is?

Also dont forget these two have had a couple of hundred thousand less to play with than Neil Woods had also.

We need stability both with the squad and the mangerial team to ride out this year, possibly add or lose a couple in January then improve in close season for next season and maybe even the same again the year after.

We are a non league club we just have to face it, every other ex league club told us that we would be in for a shock and to get use to it as its no easy league to escape from but oh no....not us we thought, not Town.

The past managerial merry go round and annual cull of players has brought us to the present position which would suggest it does not work.

Lets just try and forget who we once were for a season or two and concentrate on looking ahead to where we want to be and what we want to achieve rather than what we dont have anymore.

Who's going to sack them though? We have no chairman, no organised board of directors either. We're rudderless. (Not that I would sack them, we need stability and I believe the current duo are better than anyone else we could attract)

Quoted from ROKERITE

What is unbelievable about it?
Woods took Grimsby out of the league and then floundered in The BSP. Woods had no previous managerial period with which to compare and contrast, his only time in management is his failure at Blundell Park. H&S have an excellent record at both their previous clubs. It cannot be denied that their time at Grimsby has been disappointing so far, but it's still well under a year since they arrived. If a year from now there's no improvement it may be time to start wondering whether a change might be called for.

Yes we went down with Woods so lets look at where we are now BSP
Its a fact we were better last season.
If we were 'floundering' last season whats the word for this season?
We are stuck with these two idiots now so we will have to see how low we can go with them.
All this balderdash about what they did at Boston is crap they are Sunday League managers.  

Quoted from RoboCod

And he replaced that pish with.....Tommy Wright? We needed goals, Woods bought him, we went down.

WHS. Woods was a spectacular failure and his signings sent us down.

I don't like our new managers but sacking them would be pointless. Unlike Woods at least they have proved they know how to manage senior teams in the past.

Also we have no money to sack them and bring anyone else in so it's not even worth considering.

At the moment the priority has to be staying up and having a club next season.

Sacking the pair of them won't solve anything. I'm yet to meet more than 1-2 people wanted the chuckle brothers, they weren't the right choice from the start and they still aren't. They've brought their own players in, some are alright, some are shite. What concerns me more is that 2 of the best players, namely eagle and coulson have gone backwards and that has to be down to both them but also coaching.

Yes, woods was the manager who 'took us down' but we were a sinking ship and in some respects he deserves a tiny bit of credit for making it go down to the last game of the season.

We are worse than last year, you don't need bias statistics either way to prove any argument. Performances are shocking, we can't defend and Scott is worse than woods when it comes to pre and post match reports. All we have done is replace a quiet well mannered bloke who was naive but learning with an egomaniac loud mouthed, tactically naive bloke who doesn't seem to learn and insists on playing a formation which doesn't work. Oh yes, we are also paying out 40'000 for his mate who seems as much use as a chocolate teapot too. So in answer to the question, are we worse off?

Probably the same so really we should have stuck with woods and after the father in laws conversation with fenty after Fridays match, he's thinking the same too...we all want the club to go forward but under these two and the rudderless ship the club currently is, that is a long way off I think

Woods should never have been sacked, the one thing we need is some consistency, and if we have no continuity off the pitch, how can we expect to have it on the field? We need to stick with the same manager for more than one season and let them build up a decent squad over a few seasons, we were never going to get promoted last season, we should have stuck with Woods.

However, the situation that we are in, I firmly believe that S+H are the men for the job, the side that they've assembled, they believed to be good enough to be up there, and lets face it, the majority of the players probably are, it just hasnt clicked. And don't forget that these managers have come from a lower level, if this side was in the blue square north, I think we'd be dominating it, maybe S+H slightly underestimated this league, like everyone else does? They didn't see it to be such a step up.

Sacking them or them resigning would not be beneficial, if they are left to do their work, they'll build and improve this squad either in January or next summer, they've got a lot of contacts, and as we saw this summer, they've got an eye for a bargain, they can bring players in.

on paper, Anthony Elding, is a big player, for this level, and they've made him want to come here, the same could be said for Damian Spencer, and Frankie Artus, all good players, they've not done a lot to show it as yet, but you can see that theyve played at a higher level, if the duo can bring them in, i'm confident they can bring better in if need be.
Also Liam Hearn, top goalscorer form BSN last season, any team in our league would have been interested in him, I'm sure, but it was us that got him, well played S+H.
Craig Disley, the best midfielder I've seen at this club for a long, long time

I hate how every time you fickle people just jump straight onto the managers when things don't go right, we cant win every week, we're going to lose, we're not Man United or Barcelona. Get a grip!

Quoted from aldi_01

and after the father in laws conversation with fenty after Fridays match,

What was said Aldi, did you hear it?

The conversation they had was similar to that many of us would have but fentys body language when his choice of current manager was mentioned suggested he's not too sure either, again...

Quoted from aldi_01

The conversation they had was similar to that many of us would have but fentys body language when his choice of current manager was mentioned suggested he's not too sure either, again...

Cheers. At least one good thing (depending on your point of view) is that he's not now in a position to pull the trigger again.

Quoted from I believe in Cod

Woods should never have been sacked, the one thing we need is some consistency, and if we have no continuity off the pitch, how can we expect to have it on the field? We need to stick with the same manager for more than one season and let them build up a decent squad over a few seasons, we were never going to get promoted last season, we should have stuck with Woods.

However, the situation that we are in, I firmly believe that S+H are the men for the job, the side that they've assembled, they believed to be good enough to be up there, and lets face it, the majority of the players probably are, it just hasnt clicked. And don't forget that these managers have come from a lower level, if this side was in the blue square north, I think we'd be dominating it, maybe S+H slightly underestimated this league, like everyone else does? They didn't see it to be such a step up.

Sacking them or them resigning would not be beneficial, if they are left to do their work, they'll build and improve this squad either in January or next summer, they've got a lot of contacts, and as we saw this summer, they've got an eye for a bargain, they can bring players in.

on paper, Anthony Elding, is a big player, for this level, and they've made him want to come here, the same could be said for Damian Spencer, and Frankie Artus, all good players, they've not done a lot to show it as yet, but you can see that theyve played at a higher level, if the duo can bring them in, i'm confident they can bring better in if need be.
Also Liam Hearn, top goalscorer form BSN last season, any team in our league would have been interested in him, I'm sure, but it was us that got him, well played S+H.
Craig Disley, the best midfielder I've seen at this club for a long, long time

I hate how every time you fickle people just jump straight onto the managers when things don't go right, we cant win every week, we're going to lose, we're not Man United or Barcelona. Get a grip!

These are all valid points and reinforce our need to support The Dynamic Duo . At last we have a MID-FIELD ( with options ) something we haven't had for a few seasons. Ok , it's not perfect and there still needs for some more work done there but it is starting to take shape. It was always going to be difficult to get virtually a completely new side to gel together but patience is needed . Of course the alternative is to enter the   " Manager Merry-Go-Round " once again but this is a path fraught with danger. The last time we advertised we were rejected by several likely candidates and we are in danger of putting off decent managers because of our constant chopping and changing. Many managers might look upon us as a " bad risk " if they cannot perform instant miracles and as a consequence reject us out of hand. That just leaves the dross and journeymen managers who think they can but certainly can't achieve what is expected. As I've mentioned before The Dynamic Duo came very close to promoting Boston to this level and if they hadn't left them before the end of the season could have done so. That would have put them managing a club at our level and I think I would rather have put my faith in them as our management team than NW and DM.

Quoted from aldi_01

Sacking the pair of them won't solve anything. I'm yet to meet more than 1-2 people wanted the chuckle brothers, they weren't the right choice from the start and they still aren't. They've brought their own players in, some are alright, some are shite. What concerns me more is that 2 of the best players, namely eagle and coulson have gone backwards and that has to be down to both them but also coaching.

Yes, woods was the manager who 'took us down' but we were a sinking ship and in some respects he deserves a tiny bit of credit for making it go down to the last game of the season.

We are worse than last year, you don't need bias statistics either way to prove any argument. Performances are shocking, we can't defend and Scott is worse than woods when it comes to pre and post match reports. All we have done is replace a quiet well mannered bloke who was naive but learning with an egomaniac loud mouthed, tactically naive bloke who doesn't seem to learn and insists on playing a formation which doesn't work. Oh yes, we are also paying out 40'000 for his mate who seems as much use as a chocolate teapot too. So in answer to the question, are we worse off?

Some excellent points here, particularly about Scott.  His reaction to defeats is becoming more of a concern game by game.  What is it they say about empty vessels making the most noise?  

Probably the same so really we should have stuck with woods and after the father in laws conversation with fenty after Fridays match, he's thinking the same too...we all want the club to go forward but under these two and the rudderless ship the club currently is, that is a long way off I think

Quoted from gtfc71

Hang on Pete, if we're going to quote stats let's make sure they're comparable! If you're going to give a stat for Neil Woods from his start as a manager you have to do the same for Paul Hurst and Rob Scott.

Rob Hurst and Paul Scott won 5 of their first 18 games in charge (2 in 10 last season and 3 from 8 this).

A valid comparison is either GTFC career comparison;

Neil Woods 18 wins in 71 matches - win percentage of 25.35%
Paul Hurst and Rob Scott 8 wins in 28 matches - win percentage of 28.57%

Or 'with their own squads';

Neil Woods 12 wins in 32 matches - 37.5%
Paul Hurst and Rob Scott 6 wins in 18 matches - 33.33%

Obviously, if you're a Neil Woods fan you would look at loss percentage because of the number of draws he had.

GTFC career;

Neil Woods 24 defeats in 71 matches - 33.80%
Paul Hurst and Rob Scott 14 defeats in 28 matches - 50%

'own squad'

Neil Woods 8 defeats in 32 matches - 25%
Paul Hurst and Rob Scott 10 defeats in 18 matches - 55.56%

Right, now I've done my statto impression if anyone wants me I'll be talking to the plant in the corner  

Sorry , you just lost me,

Well done with all the stats , I think  we have to go back a long way to find a GTFC manager with positive stats.

Quoted from aldi_01

The conversation they had was similar to that many of us would have but fentys body language when his choice of current manager was mentioned suggested he's not too sure either, again...

It's like someone who's picked and divorced 10 brides and starts having doubts about his new wife.

To be fair everyone is entitled to their opinion and believe he got the Woods sacking right, but why did he assume passing football was the problem ?

I appreciate his honestly but his comment about every manager having a ready made answer in the interview process confirmed my worst fears.  

Unless you understand football and can ask well thought out football related questions which give you answers you can base decisions upon, you'll be pissing in the wind and find it hard to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Not saying S&H aren't the answer, I don't know.
Just seems like a random selection process - I'd love to know the criteria for manager selection.

One seriously has to question fenty when it comes to picking managers...he clearly can't do it and I assume neither can the rest of the board, if they actually care anyway. I just get the impression with the chuckle brothers all fenty did was look at their stats which are bollox anyway, a much shorter managerial career than the other candidates and most of it in a glorified pub league, he might as well as picked someone who's done well on football manager 2011

Quoted from aldi_01

Yes, woods was the manager who 'took us down' but we were a sinking ship and in some respects he deserves a tiny bit of credit for making it go down to the last game of the season.

If he had managed to win one of his first two dozen games we might not have been in that position.  He had 32 games to sort it out and failed.  No credit for that I'm afraid.

That said, I don't blame him totally. He tried his very best. I blame the Board who appointed a rookie manager in the middle of a relegation battle. It was lunacy. The result was predictable to anyone with even half a brain. Just another in a seemingly never ending list of poor decisions which have all but destroyed the club.

Quoted from voice of reason

In

I think it's become apparent that these 2 are good semi pro managers but when it comes to running a full time club, they are, erm, not very good...

...

all the more reason for not sacking em, coz come next season thet's exactly the sort of maangers we might need!

Quoted from forza ivano

all the more reason for not sacking em, coz come next season thet's exactly the sort of maangers we might need!

At the end of the day we were shite with woods and now shite with these 2...........lets just face it we are shite in the upcoming future we are not getting back in the league all we can pray for is a cup run, i live 5 minutes from ashington and they really think they can win, and i see nothing to prove that wrong at the moment all i am hoping for is a 0-0 so i can pop to ashington to see them play..... if we scak them who else are we going to get ??????? alan buckley utm

How many payoffs to get rid of rubbish have the two managers had to contend with as part of this year's budget - that's lost money paid out to failures none of whom are plying their trade in League 2 or above?

Be interesting to know how much has gone to get rid, and also how much is on hold for tribunal costs later this year - is that tying hands now to stop any loans?

We are not an attractive proposition for many players so we are struggling to raise the standard of players here. The farce with the two main shareholders isn't helping either.

Liam Hearn is a steal of a find at this level as has Jamie Vardy been at Fleetwood Town.

Those who have risen with the two managers are not stand outs yet, and have suffered with others not playing to their supposed level.

Ridley is going backwards in his form and confidence - Green didn't get fit enough for long enough to grab a deal - shame, he was making a big difference for the matches he did play in.

As ex defenders, it must be galling for players to go missing at set pieces and marking up players positionally if it seems to go ok in training.

However, opposition players seem to be at least a yard faster and have better passing methods than we have, as well as physical presence that our players don't seem to be able to counter.

York blitzed us for long periods of the game, Luton didn't break through but their passing was crisper and more accurate than our hoofing in hope.

Poor service stops Hearn and Co from playing properly, anyone can see that !

Will I'Anson make a difference now, at the back, has to be given a run to find out.??

I tell you folks, you are all looking for scapegoats and the same old stuff is being spewed out, last manager, present manager, chairman, manager before last, Alan Buckley, Dave Moore, the tea lady, the bloody bus driver. If it means we stop the blame game,I am prepared to accept full responsibility for the current position of the team. After a few years abstenence I started watching again when we were relegated to non-league because I was interested to see what it was like and really believed we would see a turn round in our fortunes. I am sorry I have let you all down, but there it is look no further with your blame game and do what you will.

It's a futile debate. Fact is that we are a struggling BSP team. Not bad enough to go down, but not consistent enough to go up.

As for sacking the managers, the truth is we can't afford to. There are no funds to pay them off and get another manager, and there are no funds to bring in several new players. FRom what I read I am not even sure there are sufficient funds to meet the wage bill after Christmas.

So we just have to hope that S+H can turn it round. I am sure that they will be pulling out all the stops to do so.

Getting rid of the present duo would prove quite expensive as we haven`t settled the bill for acquiring them yet let alone dismissing them

What I don't quite get is we've had 3 tough games in a row(yes Ebssfleet was no walkover) and lost.
Yes it's disappointing but compare that to the 25 games without a win we went on.

Like it or not , there's a difference to playing Alfreton and Luton.

Now we've got easier games (on paper) coming up and people aren't willing to do anything other than feel as downbeat as they can.
Can't we just see how things go and take it one game at a time ?
Even Scott is pushing the panic button....  

how long contracts did laurel and hardy sign?

is it until end of this season?

Quoted from 1600

What I don't quite get is we've had 3 tough games in a row(yes Ebssfleet was no walkover) and lost.
Yes it's disappointing but compare that to the 25 games without a win we went on.

Mmmm 80's, you keep mentioning that little stat but out of those 25 games, only 10 were defeats. 15 were draws and if he'd had Alan Connell or any decent goalscorer in the team instead of the dross left by Newell, a good proportion of them would have been wins and he'd have kept us up, i've no doubt about that !!  (read the online match reports) With the Chuckle Twins it's either good (usually against the minnows) or bloody awful (against any one decent) !

By the way, how many games did Coco & Crusty win when they first took over !!!!!  Wasn't very many was it !!

The whole atmosphere about the appointment was different as well with Woods being told he'd be given time and that stability was the buzz word coming from the Chairman suggesting they'd be no more knee jerk sackings. I truly believe Woods thought he'd have time and space to develop his own squad and in the end was sacked before completing a full season with his own chosen players !!

With these two I assume the brief was to get promotion and quick and after 2 league games and 7 goals conceded the Chucklettes asked to be judged after 15 games !

Well we've had 18 games now and we got less points, conceded more goals, are lower in the league and registering lower attendances than what Neil Woods was doing this time last season !!

I can't remember you taking it one day at a time when Neil Woods finally assembled his team !
You were one of the first ones to be screaming from the rafters for him to go so early on in the season but you are willing with these two to be patient when clearly it's a lot worse  . . . . . . . .has Rob Scott done a Jedi Mind Trick on you !!

Anyway, I hope your right because when you hear things like the managers are at their wits end cos nothing seems to be working and the players are not doing as they're told it's a bit worrying !!!

I suppose it could be worse, they could let slip that they brought the wrong players in and wasted the budget . . . . . . . hang on a minute  

Heard Jamie Forrester being interviewed on Talksport tonight.  Presumably he was John Tondeur’s sidekick on the radio, during the Luton game.  Said he’d tried very hard to find positive things to say about Town during the game, but it had been extremely difficult.  Jamie said he had not heard Rob Scott say one positive thing to anyone for the whole of the ninety minutes either, and questioned whether or not this was effective management.  

Jamie was asked if Town needed to bring in new players.  He said at our level, it should  be possible for a team to do OK without spending too much money, as long as each player knew what his role was during a game.  Jamie said he didn’t think it was lack of effort on the part of the players, but they did not seem to know what their roles were – I think he was implying that they weren’t very well organised.  

Also said Town didn’t seem to have made any progress since Neil Woods’s dismissal.  He didn’t think Town would be relegated, but they might end up in mid-table, and they should be doing better than that, really.

(Off topic, but if anyone's interested, at the end he said he was doing free coaching for 6-12 year olds at Playsport at the weekend).  

A simple phrase comes to mind with all these posts and discussions.

"the grass is always greener on the other side"

Quoted from Koggmaster

You were one of the first ones to be screaming from the rafters for him to go so early on in the season but you are willing with these two to be patient when clearly it's a lot worse  . . . . . . . .has Rob Scott done a Jedi Mind Trick on you !!

You've already read and replied to the 7 points I made to this question on the OS.
So no need to repeat myself on here, I'll reply to you over there later....

Quoted from Koggmaster

Anyway, I hope your right because when you hear things like the managers are at their wits end cos nothing seems to be working and the players are not doing as they're told it's a bit worrying !!!

Not a case of being "right" cos I'm not backing them for success, I don't know !

I've got growing doubts myself but even if you want any manager sacked(IMO it would be very questionable now before the AGM) then when is the best time to do it ?....

After 3 tough games or when you've given them every chance to put things right and you're as sure as you can be it isn't a "blip" or down to bad luck ?

Yes I was quick off the mark with Woods granted, but there was already a lot of bad water under the bridge and tbh, I was ultimately right.
But as time wore on after Hayes, I changed my mindset to try to give it every chance to work(down to the pleadings of the fishy I would guess)
Even right at the end, I was saying if Woods was to fail, then he should fail with having full support of everyone and be given every chance to turn things round.

Taking S&H now, would we be giving them a fair crack of the whip to turn things around if we pulled the plug now ?
It would be exactly the opposite after 3 tough games - failure with easier games is the time to really ask serious questions IMO.

Maybe you will be proven right but we're coming into "pressure" territory and to a critical junction right now.
So please explain to me what is wrong with waiting for the next few games ?
Who knows by then I might be agreeing with you....
If you were 100% convinced surely you'd be happy to let things play out ?
Or are you worried we might win a few and "paper over the cracks" ?

I'm not saying you're not necessarily right - if I was FORCED to guess I'd say you're are.
But whilst there remains 40-50% chance of success just in my own mind, it's not quite a solid enough case for me just yet, with the other positives I've seen.

So yes the jury is out to some extent, but to sack them now would be the worst timing imaginable IMO.

Quoted from 1600

You've already read and replied to the 7 points I made to this question on the OS.
So no need to repeat myself on here, I'll reply to you over there later....


Not a case of being "right" cos I'm not backing them for success, I don't know !

I've got growing doubts myself but even if you want any manager sacked(IMO it would be very questionable now before the AGM) then when is the best time to do it ?....

Yes I was quick off the mark with Woods granted, but there was already a lot of bad water under the bridge and tbh, I was ultimately right.
But as time wore on after Hayes, I changed my mindset to try to give it every chance to work(down to the pleadings of the fishy I would guess)
Even right at the end, I was saying if Woods was to fail, then he should fail with having full support of everyone and be given every chance to turn things round.

Taking S&H now, would we be giving them a fair crack of the whip to turn things around if we pulled the plug now ?
It would be exactly the opposite after 3 tough games - failure with easier games is the time to really ask serious questions IMO.

Maybe you will be proven right but we're coming into "pressure" territory and to a critical junction right now.
So please explain to me what is wrong with waiting for the next few games ?
Who knows by then I might be agreeing with you....
If you were 100% convinced surely you'd be happy to let things play out ?
Or are you worried we might win a few and "paper over the cracks" ?

I'm not saying you're not necessarily right - if I was FORCED to guess I'd say you're are.
But whilst there remains 40-50% chance of success just in my own mind, it's not quite a solid enough case for me just yet, with the other positives I've seen.

So yes the jury is out to some extent, but to sack them now would be the worst timing imaginable IMO.

Only in your opinion were you right. My opinion differs considerably and I believe we are now reaping the "rewards" of sacking Woods particularly at the time we did. However you try to dress it up you cannot deny that Woods wasn't losing many games he was drawing games that you and many others believed we should be winning. Whether that was out of a belief that despite all that was said people did think Town were virtually a shoe-in for at least a play off place is a moot point. A lot of posters have come on here lately and intimated that they'd be happy with a mid-table finish because we are in a "rebuilding season". Last season was our rebuilding season. Had Woods still been in his job we'd have been looking in the close season at strengthening areas where weakness was apparent paid for by the money that we had to spend to give H and S the chance to start again from scratch.
From memory your stance on Woods seemed to change almost match by match. One minute you'd be saying get behind him and the team and then after another draw against a team we should be beating it was "Woods out!!"

I believe you are quite correct though in your assertion that the games coming up are potentially easier on paper. Scott and Hurst simply have to be given the time to get it right. I honestly do not believe that the fan base at large (i.e. the hundreds who go weekly but don't go anywhere near a website) will support yet another alleged "new broom" approach. I also support entirely your view that even the current board couldn't choose a worse time to sack the current managers. we have no money and no chance of getting in new players...

Quoted from 1600

I've got growing doubts myself but even if you want any manager sacked(IMO it would be very questionable now before the AGM) then when is the best time to do it ?....

After 3 tough games or when you've given them every chance to put things right and you're as sure as you can be it isn't a "blip" or down to bad luck ?

That's the million dollar question isn't it !  When is enough, enough !

I'll be honest though and say that these two have not endeared themselves either to me and possibly a number of other fans with their shenanigans so far.
Telling fans not to bother coming to the ground if they don't like performances and publicly slating the players for their mistakes is IMO not the right way to manage.

It's maybe cos I'm ole school but I believe that if my manager wanted to lay the law down on mistakes I'd made he would have the respect to take me aside privately rather than shout his gob off on the shop floor !!!!
I would also say that when mistakes are happening it's invariably something that the manager is not doing correctly i.e. not passing instructions properly or making sure they are understood or choosing ill trained personnel for the task !!!  I've got a sneaking suspicion that all of these could be a factor and ultimately they have no one to blame but themselves.

I concur that 18 games is not long enough to make a measured assessment but they were hired to significantly improve the clubs fortunes from last season and so far they have actually made things worse. The results, so far, prove it !

You must agree 80's that these two waltzed in declaring that they'd sort the gaff out, get rid of all the negativity and put a smile on the fans faces !  Well I've just looked in the mirror and I look like this  

UTM

But we are worse...the chuckle brothers took over a team that had been no more than 4 points from the play offs all season and just tore, or so it seems, that te apart, they've rebuilt a squad they want this year yet they can't actually manage them and they are now in turn blaming the very players they wanted and believed were the right ones...

On a positive, it can't get much worse so anything else will be an improvement for Thelma and Louise and the club...

the sacking of woods is the case in point why we shouldnt be demanding a managers head every 5 minutes.

yes we got relegated under him and if he had been sacked at the end of that season, nobody could have had any complaints.

but in the conference, he hadnt done a bad job. he had cleared out umpteen players and brought in umpteen more.   with that kind of upheaval to be anywhere near the playoffs was a decent effort. and when he got sacked we were what, 9th/10th in the table with 2 games in hand? we would have all preferred to be higher, but he hadnt done bad and i think just about everybody agreed that the squad he put together only needed tinkering at the edges to put in a real promotion push in what would have been this season. if woods had been in charge this summer and got hold of a craig disley, and managed to get rob duffy into decent form, we would have been in good shape.

but no, we did what we always do, we sacked the manager, we had another clear out of most of the squad and started again, and now 18 games in, with a pretty new squad, people want to start again...again?

i went to york and i thought we were woeful offensively, i really wish we would try to play more football, but people wanted a manager who knows the non league, which is really code for "play direct football" is it not? and thats what we have got.

lets not forget it was only a couple of weeks ago when we had scored 5 goals in back to back home games.

Quoted from barralad

Only in your opinion were you right.

Point taken we will never know for sure, but my point was there wasn't "progression" being shown that you may have expected at that stage of the season.
I know you disagree Chasetown was no indication of our league exploits, but to me it just crowned how desperate the whole situation had finally become.
Even if you rely on results and talk about the first 18 games, you can't ignor the fact that results "dropped off" towards the end.

Quoted from barralad

My opinion differs considerably and I believe we are now reaping the "rewards" of sacking Woods particularly at the time we did.

Hmmm, didn't hear you predicting much about this up until now... ?
In any case I think it's unfair to put the current problems of our current managers down to Woods.
I see them as different eras (both picked by the same man) even if one did ultimately lead to the other.

Quoted from barralad

However you try to dress it up you cannot deny that Woods wasn't losing many games he was drawing games that you and many others believed we should be winning. Whether that was out of a belief that despite all that was said people did think Town were virtually a shoe-in for at least a play off place is a moot point.

I certainly didn't think it would be easy.
Of course if you set a budget for promotion and talk up expectations then people will "expect".
But in my case, it's never based on "results", I just couldn't see any sign of any progression on the pitch.

Quoted from barralad

A lot of posters have come on here lately and intimated that they'd be happy with a mid-table finish because we are in a "rebuilding season". Last season was our rebuilding season. Had Woods still been in his job we'd have been looking in the close season at strengthening areas where weakness was apparent paid for by the money that we had to spend to give H and S the chance to start again from scratch.

Wrong on all points IMO.

If last season and this season were "rebuilding" then why did we set a budget for promotion ?

This idea that you need a clearout whenever a new manager comes in is also one I don't go along with.
Had we taken on a young ambitious manager keen to prove his worth with the same squad(or similar) there would have been no need for a "budget for promotion" and we could have had a REAL "rebuilding" year whilst we assessed him.

But no, Fenty decided passing football didn't work so prompted the inevitable clearout, and again took it up himself to chase promotion at the 1st attempt with new managers and a new squad.  

Was I naive to expect anything else ?
At the end of the day, all you can do is call what's in front of you, not shy away from the consequences of what other shocks may lay in store further down the line....  

Quoted from barralad

One minute you'd be saying get behind him and the team and then after another draw against a team we should be beating it was "Woods out!!"

I don't see the contradiction at all.
I may think it best in the clubs interests for a manager to go, but I'll still be supporting him on matchdays to turn it around and succeed.
That said, I do sometimes wonder if all fans on this board (none commenting in this thread) can say the same.

Quoted from barralad

I believe you are quite correct though in your assertion that the games coming up are potentially easier on paper. Scott and Hurst simply have to be given the time to get it right.

As always, I will give them time to show improvement and progress, but not indefinite time for the sake of doing so.
It's difficult to know what can be done before the situation at the club is resolved, but that said, if we got embroiled in a relagation tussle, I think we would need to at least consider it, especially as Dave Moore stedied the ship so to speak the last time.

Quoted from Koggmaster

You must agree 80's that these two waltzed in declaring that they'd sort the gaff out, get rid of all the negativity and put a smile on the fans faces !

Well yeah, but they're bound to say that though ?

Koggmaster, I do fully appreciate all your points and agree with them, don't think I don't.
When is the best time ?
Preferably after the AGM in any case ?
I really don't wish to pre-empt any potential disasters but I think you see it's on a knife-edge and could go either way ?

The way I see it is, they've admitted they're "learning" but all those issues seems to be come from the fact we're not performing.
Not good (I'm concerned in the long term too), but start winning, they disappear like vampires at dawn.

time takes time

Quoted from GrimRob

time takes time

Exactly, I fully agree and just look back at Dean Saunders at Wrexham, to quote wiki.

Quoted Text

On 2 October 2008, Saunders was appointed as manager of Conference National side Wrexham, taking over from Brian Little to become the side's fourth manager in 22 months. He was allowed to combine the role with his position as assistant manager of Wales.[7] Wrexham won their first five league games with Saunders in charge, giving him the best starting record of any new manager in the club's history. However, Wrexham failed to maintain that early form and missed out on the 2008/09 play-offs. Whilst he solved the club's defensive frailties during 2009/10, the lack of striking options continued to be an issue, although the arrival of Andy Mangan in January 2010, the BSP's leading goalscorer during the previous year, went some way to getting over that problem. Dean Saunders made several signings in the summer of 2010, but after just 4 points out of a possible 12 in the first four games of the season, the fans wanted to see him sacked by the board, following a 2-2 draw with Kidderminster Harriers, a game which Wrexham took a 2-0 lead in the first 5 minutes. By the end of 2010, Wrexham were second of the "half-time" league (taking half-time results into account), indicating problems within the team to essentially kill a match, and this was a cause for concern for the fans. He however left his post leaving the team as the league leaders, a position they currently still hold.

I think we should of kept Neil Woods, not many managers sign 8+ players that are all good, we need to keep faith with Rob Scott and Paul Hurst even if we have a mediocre season this year, give them at least 2 seasons and if they are not getting anywhere after a run in the 3rd season then look at appointing a new management team and a fresh outlook.

Come on 80's give it a rest you are now going round in ever decreasing circles, whilst sitting on the fence. An uncomfortable situation to be in. I think you are writing comments just for the sake of it and looking for ways of disagreeing with everyone else.

Quoted from oldun

Come on 80's give it a rest you are now going round in ever decreasing circles, whilst sitting on the fence. An uncomfortable situation to be in. I think you are writing comments just for the sake of it and looking for ways of disagreeing with everyone else.

Completely agree

Quoted from oldun

Come on 80's give it a rest you are now going round in ever decreasing circles, whilst sitting on the fence. An uncomfortable situation to be in. I think you are writing comments just for the sake of it and looking for ways of disagreeing with everyone else.

I think you're being slightly unfair tbh oldun.
People call for the managers head so I plead patience with them.
They bring up the Woods comparison as their reasoning for the sack so I discuss it with them.
barralad picks up a comment I make about Woods (as is his right I've absolutely no problem with it whatosoever) so I feel it's only right that I respond to the points that he brings up.

As for sitting on the fence, who else is convinced S&H are the best thing since sliced bread ?
Don't get your point tbh.

I find going over the past boring too, but in this case I'm the responder, not the initiator.
In any case, I'm not the only one going over the past.