Doug Tharme and Curtis Thompson

Quoted from HarrogateMariner

I do not get the whole negativity regarding Clifton and can't believe some are questioning keeping him next season. Yes it has not been his best season but like him or not he is proven at this level. He was player of the season last year by some distance. Do we need some better technical players? Yes of course, but you need a balance and mixture of everything. I still believe we are a better team with Clifton in it than not.

As I have said on another thread I am cautious of a full clear out this summer. I would be keeping our better out of contract players and that includes Clifton. I have a feeling Green will stay as well, Artell seems to like him. Artell has said in a previous interview that discussions with 2 out of contract players have started, no idea who these are but I think he will look to keep at least a few for some consistency.

What position would Clifton be staying on as though? Cause it can't be central midfield. He'll be 26 in June and has had one good season where he's regularly started in central midfield. Before Hurst returned he was in and out of the side and often used out wide like he was in his best season which was in the NL where he was generally very good on the left. If he's staying on because he's got a good engine and as a utility player with a great attitude then he's a fantastic attribute for a L2 squad. If he wants to be first choice in central midfield then I'd let him go as he's simply nowhere near good enough on the ball. You'll not trouble the play offs/automatic places if Clifton is regularly starting in centre mid for you.

Artell's veto on transfers is effectively him having the final say, surely?

The role of the Joe Hutchinson and co. is to identify what we need and who can fill it.  That'll be presented to the manager/head coach/whatever for them to say yes or no.  It would have to be a very strong argument for Artell, or Hurst, to be overruled.  

Artell could do all the dirty work and find players hidden in pockets of fringe teams here and there, then end up signing them anyway.  Or he could let Hutchinson do the base work for that, then the players he wants and get time to concentrate on other pressing matters.

There's no chance in hell that Artell isn't having the dominant input and final decision on any transfers.  With that he gets the credit and blame as they come.

Quoted from mariner91

You'll not trouble the play offs/automatic places if Clifton is regularly starting in centre mid for you.

I've been disappointed with Harry this year and come to the conclusion that centre mid isn't actually his best position at all.  He isn't alone in having a poor season though and if anyone has the credit in the bank it's him.

I do agree with you that you can't have him in the middle if you want to challenge, however that's in the middle as your main man.  I think if you've got him as the one who does the dirty running, the water carrier if you like, alongside better players then he's an important cog in the wheel.

Success won't come because we've got 11 match winning players on the pitch.  It'll be a blend of those with ability to influence games and those who are capable of grinding stuff out.  Harry falls into the latter of those options.

Personally, I'm more inclined to say keep him but it's clear that he's a utility player.

Regarding Clifton we looked worse when Hume replaced him.

Quoted from toontown

Yeah absolutely, he said on the DN35 podcast he gets a veto but anybody who thinks he's identifying these players and leading on signing them is barking up the wrong tree.

He said when he came he wouldn't be leading in this, Stockwood said after Hurst went one of the reasons for it was because he didn't listen to the recruitment team in the summer but went his own way a lot.

Keep hearing this, oh his signings in January were good - he isn't signing them. If it had been Pearson instead say we would have had the opportunity to sign at least most of them, quite possibly all

I didn't hear that statement, but reading between the lines that's why I think he was sacked. It raises an interesting question though, if next season we're also crap and the manager and players were all chosen by Hutchison, who becomes the fall guy? Sacking the recruitment guy isn't going to instantly change results but you'd be hard pressed to blame anybody else unless we're getting smashed by playing the 'Grimsby way', which Artell was given the mandate of doing.

And that's Harry's 3rd, 4th best position?

I think that probably sums up why we'll need him moving forward.  I think you can put him anywhere in midfield or on either side at fullback and he does a competent job 9 times out of 10.  He might not reach the standards of last season but he's likely to be better than the vast majority of people we could sign as backup for those positions.

I'd rather spend a wage on Harry knowing he can provide adequate cover for a number of positions, save a bit of cash on wholesale cover and use that saving a bit to bring in quality elsewhere in the starting XI.

Quoted from HarrogateMariner

I do not get the whole negativity regarding Clifton and can't believe some are questioning keeping him next season. Yes it has not been his best season but like him or not he is proven at this level. He was player of the season last year by some distance. Do we need some better technical players? Yes of course, but you need a balance and mixture of everything. I still believe we are a better team with Clifton in it than not.

As I have said on another thread I am cautious of a full clear out this summer. I would be keeping our better out of contract players and that includes Clifton. I have a feeling Green will stay as well, Artell seems to like him. Artell has said in a previous interview that discussions with 2 out of contract players have started, no idea who these are but I think he will look to keep at least a few for some consistency.

Player data from L2 is freely available on various websites. Clifton’s data is appalling. There’s no way he’d get considered as a signing if he was at another club.

Quoted from diehardmariner

And that's Harry's 3rd, 4th best position?

I think that probably sums up why we'll need him moving forward.  I think you can put him anywhere in midfield or on either side at fullback and he does a competent job 9 times out of 10.  He might not reach the standards of last season but he's likely to be better than the vast majority of people we could sign as backup for those positions.

I'd rather spend a wage on Harry knowing he can provide adequate cover for a number of positions, save a bit of cash on wholesale cover and use that saving a bit to bring in quality elsewhere in the starting XI.

It means you can spend better in other areas because his versatility means he can do a job in 6 different positions rather than needing a back up in every single other position. I'm not his biggest fan but at this level every successful squad has a player that does a job all over the pitch. Jordan Bowery played centre half for Mansfield last night and he's there number 9. This season he's played up top, right back, centre half, centre mid and right wing.

I don't think Clifton is at all good in central midfield as he just lacks the awareness and technical ability to retain possession. Unfortunately, that just not an aspect of his game he can apparently develop, though we've all been hoping he would since he broke through as a youngster. His best performances for me were when he was out on the left wing and he did very well there last season, but the question is whether we would prefer a proper attacking winger such as Vernam playing wide and I think we really should. Trying to grind out results now is all well and good, but we've got to aim for better next season. I suppose he could play in a midfield 3 as long as he's not the one trying to make it tick in the middle.

Though Clifton has had by far his worst season for us, I think he's versatile enough (and usually better overall than he has been this season), so that we will keep him for another year or two.

However, we can't be starting next season with the idea that he's going to be a first choice player.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

Player data from L2 is freely available on various websites. Clifton’s data is appalling. There’s no way he’d get considered as a signing if he was at another club.

do those stats reveal whether any of our players are actually doing well?