This is an interesting article by the doctor who found the Omicron variant. Having read it I wonder if Boris is overreacting to cover up his latest bad publicity. You also have to wonder if we are being told the whole truth about Omicron or being drip-fed what the government wants us to think.
You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
Time will tell. However, always bare in mind that the Daily Mail is owned by DMGT, who have interests in Newspapers, Land & Property, Insurance, Health & Energy sectors. Lockdowns & restrictions are almost certainly not in their business interests, so they are more likely to drip feed this kind of story/article.
It’s an extremely well timed variant, hides yet more government blunders and has masked the votes provides further opportunity for them to push through more social controls.
Of course anyone that doesn’t panic is seen as some conspiracist but the over reaction is plain as day.
That statement the other night was another opportunity to guilt people in to having the booster this time, almost everyone has had the jab and yet numbers have continued to rise, now they’re pushing the booster…have big pharma not made enough money yet?
'the poor and the needy are selfish and greedy'...well done Mozza
More importantly it’s the votes on the vaccine passports tonight up to 80 Tory rebels will be voting against, but don’t worry Labour will be more than making up for it, yes the opposition will be backing the start of a state control surveillance society, once these are in there will be no going back. Nothing to do with stopping the spread we all know this right?
Well, Javid said today that they think we're currently having 200,000 infections per day. Doubling every 2 days apparently so that would be in the region of 800,000 a day by the weekend. The gamble that boosters will be enough to avert catastrophe is a massive one and the idea that Omicron is definitely less severe isn't backed up by a lot of the data available. South Africa has a much younger population, much higher past infection rate and much lower level of vaccination. Trying to compare with the UK is incredibly difficult with all these confounding factors.
Denmark, which is much closer in demographics and infection to the UK, seems to be having similar hospitalisation rates to Delta so, if it isn't considerably less virulent, we're already screwed.
The other signal in the data from South Africa is that hospitalisations of young children are increased compared to previous waves. That's a concern for me as I've got two kids who are way too young to be vaccinated.
I suspect they'll wait until after the by-election on Thursday and then bring in tougher restrictions. If they do, it will be pathetic politicking, putting lives at risk for political gain.
I don't disagree with Dix too much from that article. It's all well and good getting boosters into arms but they don't have much effect for the first 2 weeks so it's not going to 'Save Christmas' in any regard. It would be better to implement some restrictions (not necessarily a full lockdown) and make sure the elderly and most at risk are boosted first, but it is the easier route to shut down half of the NHS for a couple of weeks and try to boost everyone who wants it. Those missing their appointments are obviously seen as collateral damage.
It would make sense to start to vaccinate younger children (i.e. ages 5+ where there is now ample safety data thanks to the US rollout) over the holidays and sort out ventilation and air filtration in schools over the Christmas period. That would help reduce spread when the schools go back, whenever that may be.
At the moment, just hoping late December/January isn't going to be as bad for the NHS as it could well be. Ridiculous how fast Omicron transmits. It's not even 4 weeks since it was first spotted yet it's likely the dominant varint in many countries already. Too early to even be certain just how virulent it is in comparison to Delta.
Well, Javid said today that they think we're currently having 200,000 infections per day. Doubling every 2 days apparently so that would be in the region of 800,000 a day by the weekend. The gamble that boosters will be enough to avert catastrophe is a massive one and the idea that Omicron is definitely less severe isn't backed up by a lot of the data available. South Africa has a much younger population, much higher past infection rate and much lower level of vaccination. Trying to compare with the UK is incredibly difficult with all these confounding factors.
Denmark, which is much closer in demographics and infection to the UK, seems to be having similar hospitalisation rates to Delta so, if it isn't considerably less virulent, we're already screwed.
The other signal in the data from South Africa is that hospitalisations of young children are increased compared to previous waves. That's a concern for me as I've got two kids who are way too young to be vaccinated.
I suspect they'll wait until after the by-election on Thursday and then bring in tougher restrictions. If they do, it will be pathetic politicking, putting lives at risk for political gain.
These brainwashed sharp objects queuing for hours and hours are not even considering the resources they are using up and taking away from genuine patients🤬
Professors Lockdown latest update. The 10-day Covid isolation period could be shortened to a week with the same effect, the scientist behind Britain’s lockdowns has suggested.
Prof Neil Ferguson said that as long as people completed a negative lateral flow test, the window could be reduced.
The Imperial College London modeller, who sits on the Government’s Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage), is now the most senior scientist to suggest that the 10-day rule could be relaxed.
It comes as desperate business leaders also called for a cut in the period of isolation, branding the current policy “lockdown by stealth”.
Prof Ferguson was speaking the day after his group published its initial findings into omicron in the UK.
They found evidence that the variant can evade immunity, both from prior infection or vaccination, to a “substantial extent”, and said there was no evidence that omicron was intrinsically milder than delta.
Prof Ferguson’s group project that there could be 5,000 deaths a day thanks to the new variant, despite there being only around 65 people currently in hospital with it, according to official figures on Friday.
Sage predicts a significant increase in hospital admissions, to roughly 3,000 a day.
However, a comparable increase has not played out in South Africa, where the outbreak started, and clinicians have reported that cases appear to be less severe.
Evidence has also emerged from South Africa suggesting that omicron patients’ period of infection is shorter than with previous variants.
Asked about the feasibility of reducing the isolation period to seven days, Prof Ferguson told Today on BBC Radio 4 on Saturday: “I think it’s always a trade-off between the effectiveness of those things and people’s adherence to them.
“I think if it could be coupled with lateral flow testing, so testing to release - and this was looked at some months ago, even a year ago in terms of these rules - all the modelling and analysis which suggests if it’s coupled with lateral flow testing, it’s not going to reduce the effectiveness of the measures that much.”
His comments chimed with those of Prof Paul Hunter, professor of medicine at the University of East Anglia, who said omicron patients were most infectious in the first five days, after which infectiousness falls.
‘Some people are no longer infectious after three days and it makes no sense to keep them locked up,” he said.
“Isolating people for 10 days when they are no longer infectious will harm the economy and leave vital public services, such as the NHS, short-staffed.
“People could perhaps take a daily lateral flow test and be allowed to leave quarantine if they test negative for two days in a row.”
Meanwhile the British Chamber of Commerce has warned businesses will fail unless they are given support from the Treasury amid rising cases of the omicron variant.
Hannah Essex, the co-executive director, said: “What we need to hear pretty much now, over the weekend, which should have been one of the busiest weekends of the year for businesses, is what are they going to do.
“Doing nothing is not an option right now … or we will see businesses fail.”
“There's nothing wrong with the car except that it's on fire.”- Murray Walker
Professors Lockdown latest update. The 10-day Covid isolation period could be shortened to a week with the same effect, the scientist behind Britain’s lockdowns has suggested.
Prof Neil Ferguson said that as long as people completed a negative lateral flow test, the window could be reduced.
The Imperial College London modeller, who sits on the Government’s Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage), is now the most senior scientist to suggest that the 10-day rule could be relaxed.
It comes as desperate business leaders also called for a cut in the period of isolation, branding the current policy “lockdown by stealth”.
Prof Ferguson was speaking the day after his group published its initial findings into omicron in the UK.
They found evidence that the variant can evade immunity, both from prior infection or vaccination, to a “substantial extent”, and said there was no evidence that omicron was intrinsically milder than delta.
Prof Ferguson’s group project that there could be 5,000 deaths a day thanks to the new variant, despite there being only around 65 people currently in hospital with it, according to official figures on Friday.
Sage predicts a significant increase in hospital admissions, to roughly 3,000 a day.
However, a comparable increase has not played out in South Africa, where the outbreak started, and clinicians have reported that cases appear to be less severe.
Evidence has also emerged from South Africa suggesting that omicron patients’ period of infection is shorter than with previous variants.
Asked about the feasibility of reducing the isolation period to seven days, Prof Ferguson told Today on BBC Radio 4 on Saturday: “I think it’s always a trade-off between the effectiveness of those things and people’s adherence to them.
“I think if it could be coupled with lateral flow testing, so testing to release - and this was looked at some months ago, even a year ago in terms of these rules - all the modelling and analysis which suggests if it’s coupled with lateral flow testing, it’s not going to reduce the effectiveness of the measures that much.”
His comments chimed with those of Prof Paul Hunter, professor of medicine at the University of East Anglia, who said omicron patients were most infectious in the first five days, after which infectiousness falls.
‘Some people are no longer infectious after three days and it makes no sense to keep them locked up,” he said.
“Isolating people for 10 days when they are no longer infectious will harm the economy and leave vital public services, such as the NHS, short-staffed.
“People could perhaps take a daily lateral flow test and be allowed to leave quarantine if they test negative for two days in a row.”
Meanwhile the British Chamber of Commerce has warned businesses will fail unless they are given support from the Treasury amid rising cases of the omicron variant.
Hannah Essex, the co-executive director, said: “What we need to hear pretty much now, over the weekend, which should have been one of the busiest weekends of the year for businesses, is what are they going to do.
“Doing nothing is not an option right now … or we will see businesses fail.”
5000 deaths a day! If Ferguson told me it was Sunday tomorrow I’d have to double check.
So, Holland now into lockdown, despite a relatively small number of cases in comparison to the UK. It will be interesting to contrast how things progress over there compared to us, though bear in mind over a week of cases is baked in from infections which have already taken place.
We're all being fcuked up the bottom but being convinced that each other is responsible for us being fcuked up the bottom while the people who are actually fcuking us up the bottom sit back and snigger.
I will not be happy with another lockdown, we do need to get back to normal at some stage, we can't keep locking down over every variant otherwise we will forever be like this as there will forever be new variants.
Who is actually going to comply with a lockdown now when most of us are fed up? Likewise they don't follow their own rules so why would others?
The biggest pandemic we are facing atm is the amount of suicides, all these lockdowns and restrictions is just contributing to poor mental health which is tipping people over the edge and people are taking the decision to end their lives. And don't forget all deaths are within 28 days of a Covid positive test so I could test positive now, recover and then be stabbed to death in Jan and I'll go down as a covid death. I would be interested to know just how many people has actually died from just Covid and they had no other contributing health issues.
It's a complete myth that there have been a spate of suicides due to lockdowns. Don't have the numbers to hand but, if you search, you should quite easily be able to find studies which indicate fewer people have actually taken their lives during the pandemic than usual. That's not to say it isn't putting strain on the mental health of many.
Those voices who have been claiming the virus is now endemic will get their wish once Omicron has swept its way through the population during the next few months, though I'd imagine there will still be a serious burden of illness for a few years yet.
The Times was reporting yesterday that the government is planning a 2 week circuit breaker lockdown after Christmas. Would be a couple of weeks too late which is par for the course with this government so sounds a distinct possibility.
Lock up the elderly the vulnerable and the scared for 2 weeks let this mild cold spread throughout so we end up like South Africa. With thanks to the reported 23M still unvaccinated who will give the nation the natural immunity that vaccines cannot and end this madness once and for all.
The latest Sage paper-drop — the 6,000-deaths-a-day one — refers to ‘scenarios,’ not predictions. Professor Medley emphasises the distinction: saying something could happen is not saying that there's a realistic chance of it happening. But then why do Sage modellers publish some scenarios and not others?
“There's nothing wrong with the car except that it's on fire.”- Murray Walker
Surely a scenario is a prediction and in truth, perhaps they have access to whichever data they want, a prediction is just that. A prediction.
I could sit on my fat hairy bottom and say that millions will not get Omicron or whatever new variant they discover around the time of the next large public holiday and that’s all it is, a prediction. I could equally say millions will get it.
One thing that has been clear throughout this whole thing is the variation in gathering and sharing data.
Not everybody tests, not everyone is unvaccinated, not everyone that’s been recorded as a covid death died from covid or even complications caused by covid.
It’s all a mess and lockdowns will do nothing to really help long term. I’ve made more referrals in the last year to mental health services than I’ve ever had, and I’ve even had to help adults/parent/careers self refer too.
Whilst I’d agree to some extent that covid can’t be blamed for a spike in suicides, it’s multifaceted and not as simple as putting a finger on one thing, suicide is, for me, a far bigger concern. It’s prevalent and the counties underfunding of mental health services and social care are creating a pandemic but people are getting wrapped up in worrying about a couple of people not wearing a mask rather than issues that have been apparent before covid and will be significantly increased after…
I mean, we’re 137k beds less since tory austerity, those beds may have helped the pressure on the NHS during all this…but still, it’s easier for Boris and co to guilt trip us and blame everyone except themselves…
'the poor and the needy are selfish and greedy'...well done Mozza
The latest Sage paper-drop — the 6,000-deaths-a-day one — refers to ‘scenarios,’ not predictions. Professor Medley emphasises the distinction: saying something could happen is not saying that there's a realistic chance of it happening. But then why do Sage modellers publish some scenarios and not others?
Let's see what the guy himself says when questioned on the Spectator article:
Tweet 1472322935658627076 will appear here...
Unsurprising to see Fraser Nelson deliberately 'misunderstand' the conversation to misrepresent what Medley was saying as Fraser has long been in the Covid-minimising camp. The article is in the Spectator (of course) and The Telegraph (of course). Any other right-wing Covid denialist places he can get it published in, I wonder?
This is what the argument is reduced to - disingenuously claiming that scientists are trying to hoodwink the public for political reasons, even though all the data from their modelling is ultimately published, including all the assumptions made. If anybody wants to pick through it themselves, they can do, but no, instead the deniers attempt to cast doubt on motives instead. Pretty pathetic.
How do you get in to or on to the SAGE committee? Genuine question…and in truth he still just says the make up scenarios; you don’t have to be a scientist to do that.
They’ve got access to data but we know data can be manipulated in any which way.
As I said to someone blathering on about the need for a lockdown, it’s easy to call for one when you’ve job security, salary, ability to work from home etc but many haven’t that luxury or ability. A lockdown for many is equally as dangerous, just in a different way…
'the poor and the needy are selfish and greedy'...well done Mozza
Appointed by the government, I expect. Probably a case that experts have been appointed on the advice of the various medical officers over the years and these may join and leave depending on the requirements of the situation. Perhaps a quango?
Surely a scenario is a prediction and in truth, perhaps they have access to whichever data they want, a prediction is just that. A prediction.
I could sit on my fat hairy bottom and say that millions will not get Omicron or whatever new variant they discover around the time of the next large public holiday and that’s all it is, a prediction. I could equally say millions will get it.
One thing that has been clear throughout this whole thing is the variation in gathering and sharing data.
Not everybody tests, not everyone is unvaccinated, not everyone that’s been recorded as a covid death died from covid or even complications caused by covid.
It’s all a mess and lockdowns will do nothing to really help long term. I’ve made more referrals in the last year to mental health services than I’ve ever had, and I’ve even had to help adults/parent/careers self refer too.
Whilst I’d agree to some extent that covid can’t be blamed for a spike in suicides, it’s multifaceted and not as simple as putting a finger on one thing, suicide is, for me, a far bigger concern. It’s prevalent and the counties underfunding of mental health services and social care are creating a pandemic but people are getting wrapped up in worrying about a couple of people not wearing a mask rather than issues that have been apparent before covid and will be significantly increased after…
I mean, we’re 137k beds less since tory austerity, those beds may have helped the pressure on the NHS during all this…but still, it’s easier for Boris and co to guilt trip us and blame everyone except themselves…
Difference is between SAGE and you is they know what they're talking about and you knows much as Humbojoke.
Through the door there came familiar laughter, I saw your face and heard you call my name. Oh my friend we're older but no wiser, For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
Difference is between SAGE and you is they know what they're talking about and you knows much as Humbojoke.
But, assuming they’re government appointed, credibility is naturally questioned which was my point. Much like when the government appointed Tom Bennett as behaviour Tsar in school, he was nominated because he was happy to champion the government narrative.
After the mess that’s been caused, anything linked to the government lacks any credibility now. There’s literally no trust in anything, I was happy to believe the science, as they kept telling us but now there’s an impossibility to any of that. Sad really because I suspect the vast majority are right but with trust and belief diminished in many it just gets even messier…
'the poor and the needy are selfish and greedy'...well done Mozza
The thing I don't get with your line of argument is that you seem to think the government want to lock things down and you suggest they use SAGE as an excuse to do that.
I just don't see that being the case at all. As far as I can see SAGE are saying urgent action is required immediately and the govt is trying anything to avoid that, mainly because the hard right Conservative MPs are going bat-excrement crazy.
The thing I don't get with your line of argument is that you seem to think the government want to lock things down and you suggest they use SAGE as an excuse to do that.
I just don't see that being the case at all. As far as I can see SAGE are saying urgent action is required immediately and the govt is trying anything to avoid that, mainly because the hard right Conservative MPs are going bat-excrement crazy.
Exactly!
They are also sh1t scared of the public reaction and how it will affect their standing in the polls.
I expect they will lock us down after crimbo, when it will be too little, too late. That's their usual default position.
They are also sh1t scared of the public reaction and how it will affect their standing in the polls.
I expect they will lock us down after crimbo, when it will be too little, too late. That's their usual default position.
Which is just bizarre. That’s been the weird thing about it all, from the very beginning, in almost every country, rules introduced because it’s life threatening yet we have to wait a week, or they’re introduced on a staggered approach…nothing makes any sort of sense. Nothing at all…
'the poor and the needy are selfish and greedy'...well done Mozza
It makes perfect sense to me why the government delay every time. The Conservatives are made up of and funded by people whose only two interests are the economy and staying in power. They are the people who own the city/town centres and most business within them. Despite their claims, they are not interested in issues like mental health or eductaion, they've been cutting funding for both for years. Boris was even quoted last year (when dithering over the 2nd wave - "let the bodies pile up" - admitedly it was Dominic Cummins who claimed this.
The only equation in their minds when they know a new wave is coming is "How long can we keep the economy going and avoid govt. support before we lose public approval (knowing that a capitulated NHS would seriously affect their chances of re-election).
Well, yes, they've analysed the data which is becoming available and therefore these conclusions have been made.
The fact that Omicron is so much more infectious means that it is likely to be incredibly serious even if individual cases are less likely to become seriously ill. A tiny proportion of a very large number is still extremely big. We're quickly heading towards a few hundred thousand infections a day and it won't take more than a tiny proportion of those to be serious to crush the NHS.
Also, notable that the right-wing press and their Covid-sceptic allies are really trying to cast aspersions on the work of the modellers. We've seen the Spectator start to post articles which disingenuously claim the modellers are deliberately being pessimistic. We had Fraser Nelson's article the other day and the latest wheeze is to selectively reproduce parts of charts from earlier in the pandemic (when less was known about transmission and the like) without explaining the context to try and cast further doubt. Pretty pathetic, really.
It appears to be sheer chance that Omicron is less severe than Delta, due to the way in which the disease presents itself (which also probably helps to explain some of the extra transmissibility). However, the data indicating this is only just becoming available and the thing to remember is that Omicron hasn't really worked its way into older and more vulnerable groups yet. It will in due course (in about 3 days, especially) and that's when we'll see how dangerous it might be.
One thing that is noticeable is that hospitalisations in London have really begun to ramp up this week. These will be for people infected a couple of weeks ago. The much bigger numbers whose tests were reported as positive in today's statistics wouldn't be requiring hospital treatment until the end of January. Most would have been infected around a week ago.
A couple of things to add. A lot of the hospitalisations today would still have been Delta. Omicron is crowding it out so it might be that the apparent reduction in severity means that the rate of increasing hospitalisations may slow (whilst still increasing a lot in absolute numbers). The other point is that vaccination rates in London are pretty low in comparison to most other places. It might be that hospitalisations outside London run at a lower rate as Omicron takes over due to greater protection from the vaccines. On the other hand, the population in London tends to be younger than other areas so that might make rates an underestimate of severity! More deprivation, however, which is a big factor so that might move things the other way again.
Take all that into account, then imagine you're trying to model what will happen. Which assumptions should you make about what will happen? Not very easy to guess is it? Hence the very wide spread between the more and less optimistic modelling.
Well, yes, they've analysed the data which is becoming available and therefore these conclusions have been made.
The fact that Omicron is so much more infectious means that it is likely to be incredibly serious even if individual cases are less likely to become seriously ill. A tiny proportion of a very large number is still extremely big. We're quickly heading towards a few hundred thousand infections a day and it won't take more than a tiny proportion of those to be serious to crush the NHS.
Also, notable that the right-wing press and their Covid-sceptic allies are really trying to cast aspersions on the work of the modellers. We've seen the Spectator start to post articles which disingenuously claim the modellers are deliberately being pessimistic. We had Fraser Nelson's article the other day and the latest wheeze is to selectively reproduce parts of charts from earlier in the pandemic (when less was known about transmission and the like) without explaining the context to try and cast further doubt. Pretty pathetic, really.
It appears to be sheer chance that Omicron is less severe than Delta, due to the way in which the disease presents itself (which also probably helps to explain some of the extra transmissibility). However, the data indicating this is only just becoming available and the thing to remember is that Omicron hasn't really worked its way into older and more vulnerable groups yet. It will in due course (in about 3 days, especially) and that's when we'll see how dangerous it might be.
One thing that is noticeable is that hospitalisations in London have really begun to ramp up this week. These will be for people infected a couple of weeks ago. The much bigger numbers whose tests were reported as positive in today's statistics wouldn't be requiring hospital treatment until the end of January. Most would have been infected around a week ago.
A couple of things to add. A lot of the hospitalisations today would still have been Delta. Omicron is crowding it out so it might be that the apparent reduction in severity means that the rate of increasing hospitalisations may slow (whilst still increasing a lot in absolute numbers). The other point is that vaccination rates in London are pretty low in comparison to most other places. It might be that hospitalisations outside London run at a lower rate as Omicron takes over due to greater protection from the vaccines. On the other hand, the population in London tends to be younger than other areas so that might make rates an underestimate of severity! More deprivation, however, which is a big factor so that might move things the other way again.
Take all that into account, then imagine you're trying to model what will happen. Which assumptions should you make about what will happen? Not very easy to guess is it? Hence the very wide spread between the more and less optimistic modelling.
How does anybody take this Maringer serious? Unbelievably he sounds upset the variant isn’t as dangerous as he was predicting…. Nutcase. I honestly think he should go see his doctor for some anti-anxiety treatment but I doubt he could leave the house😂
Well, yes, they've analysed the data which is becoming available and therefore these conclusions have been made.
The fact that Omicron is so much more infectious means that it is likely to be incredibly serious even if individual cases are less likely to become seriously ill. A tiny proportion of a very large number is still extremely big. We're quickly heading towards a few hundred thousand infections a day and it won't take more than a tiny proportion of those to be serious to crush the NHS.
Also, notable that the right-wing press and their Covid-sceptic allies are really trying to cast aspersions on the work of the modellers. We've seen the Spectator start to post articles which disingenuously claim the modellers are deliberately being pessimistic. We had Fraser Nelson's article the other day and the latest wheeze is to selectively reproduce parts of charts from earlier in the pandemic (when less was known about transmission and the like) without explaining the context to try and cast further doubt. Pretty pathetic, really.
It appears to be sheer chance that Omicron is less severe than Delta, due to the way in which the disease presents itself (which also probably helps to explain some of the extra transmissibility). However, the data indicating this is only just becoming available and the thing to remember is that Omicron hasn't really worked its way into older and more vulnerable groups yet. It will in due course (in about 3 days, especially) and that's when we'll see how dangerous it might be.
One thing that is noticeable is that hospitalisations in London have really begun to ramp up this week. These will be for people infected a couple of weeks ago. The much bigger numbers whose tests were reported as positive in today's statistics wouldn't be requiring hospital treatment until the end of January. Most would have been infected around a week ago.
A couple of things to add. A lot of the hospitalisations today would still have been Delta. Omicron is crowding it out so it might be that the apparent reduction in severity means that the rate of increasing hospitalisations may slow (whilst still increasing a lot in absolute numbers). The other point is that vaccination rates in London are pretty low in comparison to most other places. It might be that hospitalisations outside London run at a lower rate as Omicron takes over due to greater protection from the vaccines. On the other hand, the population in London tends to be younger than other areas so that might make rates an underestimate of severity! More deprivation, however, which is a big factor so that might move things the other way again.
Take all that into account, then imagine you're trying to model what will happen. Which assumptions should you make about what will happen? Not very easy to guess is it? Hence the very wide spread between the more and less optimistic modelling.
Are you Professor Neil Ferguson or one of the other ones campaigning for a lockdown?
Last week you was saying that we would be in a full lockdown over Christmas, the other day you was saying that you would take Drakeford's word over Johnson, I don't trust Johnson one bit, also I don't trust Drakeford, it seems as so you want a lockdown.
Don't you want to go back to normal ever again?
If we keep locking down over every variant even after the vaccines then we have no hope of getting back to normal.
I for one am glad we have no restrictions and I do think Johnson had it right for once where we relax, sit and wait to see what happens before hitting the panic button and overreacting
Are you Professor Neil Ferguson or one of the other ones campaigning for a lockdown?
Last week you was saying that we would be in a full lockdown over Christmas, the other day you was saying that you would take Drakeford's word over Johnson, I don't trust Johnson one bit, also I don't trust Drakeford, it seems as so you want a lockdown.
Don't you want to go back to normal ever again?
If we keep locking down over every variant even after the vaccines then we have no hope of getting back to normal.
I for one am glad we have no restrictions and I do think Johnson had it right for once where we relax, sit and wait to see what happens before hitting the panic button and overreacting
Such naivety.
Boris operates in the court of public opinion. The only reason he hasn't imposed more sanctions is because he is reeling from all the bullsh1t he's spouted and people are starting to see him for the selfish, lying toe rag that he is and his ratings are plummeting. He daren't lock us down because his stock is so low and he knows more restrictions will add to the enmity aimed his way.
Basically, he is putting his popularity before the good of the nation. There's a reason we have one of the highest covid death rates in the world, thanks to the ditherer in chief.
He never even attended the latest cobra meeting. Neither did the Chancellor, but he was probably too busy with his campaign manager, working out the best strategy to usurp his boss and become leader.
So basically, the decision was to make no decision. Expect a lockdown in the new year if the numbers keep climbing, but by then it will be too little, too late again.
Still, as long as you and others get to go to the pub and have family gatherings, it's all golden.
Boris operates in the court of public opinion. The only reason he hasn't imposed more sanctions is because he is reeling from all the bullsh1t he's spouted and people are starting to see him for the selfish, lying toe rag that he is and his ratings are plummeting. He daren't lock us down because his stock is so low and he knows more restrictions will add to the enmity aimed his way.
Basically, he is putting his popularity before the good of the nation. There's a reason we have one of the highest covid death rates in the world, thanks to the ditherer in chief.
He never even attended the latest cobra meeting. Neither did the Chancellor, but he was probably too busy with his campaign manager, working out the best strategy to usurp his boss and become leader.
So basically, the decision was to make no decision. Expect a lockdown in the new year if the numbers keep climbing, but by then it will be too little, too late again.
Still, as long as you and others get to go to the pub and have family gatherings, it's all golden.
So would you be a favour of a lockdown as of this week? Are you aware of the economic & health repercussions that are attached to that?
“There's nothing wrong with the car except that it's on fire.”- Murray Walker
So would you be a favour of a lockdown as of this week? Are you aware of the economic & health repercussions that are attached to that?
I can't see what this week has to do with it. If we need to take action, then so be it. Diseases don't take a break because it's Christmas.
Well aware of the economic impact, but for me, health is everything. We are a very rich nation, so...
There are health repercussions whichever way you go.
Maybe there is and maybe their isn't good reason to reintroduce measures, depending on your viewpoint and plenty of other countries are taking it more seriously than we are.
What gets my goat is the very real possibility that we will lock down anyway after Christmas because our glorious leader doesn't want to upset the nation any more than he already has done by "spoiling Christmas". He follows the science when it suits him.
I can't see what this week has to do with it. If we need to take action, then so be it. Diseases don't take a break because it's Christmas.
Well aware of the economic impact, but for me, health is everything. We are a very rich nation, so...
There are health repercussions whichever way you go.
Maybe there is and maybe their isn't good reason to reintroduce measures, depending on your viewpoint and plenty of other countries are taking it more seriously than we are.
What gets my goat is the very real possibility that we will lock down anyway after Christmas because our glorious leader doesn't want to upset the nation any more than he already has done by "spoiling Christmas". He follows the science when it suits him.
So no opinion to lock down or not. So again would you be happy to lock down this week with the available data?
“There's nothing wrong with the car except that it's on fire.”- Murray Walker
So no opinion to lock down or not. So again would you be happy to lock down this week with the available data?
Don't know why you are getting so uppity. Our opinions don't matter one jot anyway.
Bit of a moot question really. Not my circus, not my decision, but if a lockdown happened this week, it wouldn't bother me in the slightest, though 'happy' is not the word I would use, rather resigned.
The point I was trying to make is that Boris won't lock down this week, even if he should, because it's not politically expedient to do so.
Didn't even attend the last Cobra meeting. He's the nations leader FFS.
Don't know why you are getting so uppity. Our opinions don't matter one jot anyway.
Bit of a moot question really. Not my circus, not my decision, but if a lockdown happened this week, it wouldn't bother me in the slightest, though 'happy' is not the word I would use, rather resigned.
The point I was trying to make is that Boris won't lock down this week, even if he should, because it's not politically expedient to do so.
Didn't even attend the last Cobra meeting. He's the nations leader FFS.
"Uppity" lol
The whole point of a discussion is opinions. Rather wishy washy,not that bothered either way...... Look into the impact of lockdown. You be might find it will bother you. If not try thinking of all of affected businesses etc.
“There's nothing wrong with the car except that it's on fire.”- Murray Walker
The whole point of a discussion is opinions. Rather wishy washy,not that bothered either way...... Look into the impact of lockdown. You be might find it will bother you. If not try thinking of all of affected businesses etc.
Bit of a moot question really. Not my circus, not my decision, but if a lockdown happened this week, it wouldn't bother me in the slightest, though 'happy' is not the word I would use, rather resigned.
An unexpected ONS update released today showing the infection estimates from the most up to date seroprevalence data. In London, they estimate that 9.5% of the population had Covid on 19th December. That's up from a little over 5% on the previous data up to 16th December. Almost a doubling in 3 days. Bear in mind that we're 5 days on from 19th now so likely to be in excess of 20% of the population in London infected now, crazy as it seems. Hospitalisations in London now almost up to the level (400/day) they said where restrictions would need to be implemented. The people hospitalised today would have been infected 10 to 14 days ago, so estimate at least 4 doublings of infections since then. That would be in the region of 6000 per day. In London. That would be catastrophe.
Hopefully, that's an overestimate and the numbers don't continue on that trajectory. I fear the worst.
An unexpected ONS update released today showing the infection estimates from the most up to date seroprevalence data. In London, they estimate that 9.5% of the population had Covid on 19th December. That's up from a little over 5% on the previous data up to 16th December. Almost a doubling in 3 days. Bear in mind that we're 5 days on from 19th now so likely to be in excess of 20% of the population in London infected now, crazy as it seems. Hospitalisations in London now almost up to the level (400/day) they said where restrictions would need to be implemented. The people hospitalised today would have been infected 10 to 14 days ago, so estimate at least 4 doublings of infections since then. That would be in the region of 6000 per day. In London. That would be catastrophe.
Hopefully, that's an overestimate and the numbers don't continue on that trajectory. I fear the worst.
386 admissions reported today. Doubling every 2-3 days, so more than the January peak by the middle of next week if this growth continues. And it already has, bearing in mind the people admitted today were infected well over a week ago.
Do you think we're at the peak? Cases are doubling every 2-3 days! Those hospitalised today were infected 10 or so days ago. Why would you think we're at the peak! Look at the fricking chart and extrapolate the growth. We're already far past the January peak baked in due to infections over the past week.
Do you think we're at the peak? Cases are doubling every 2-3 days! Those hospitalised today were infected 10 or so days ago. Why would you think we're at the peak! Look at the fricking chart and extrapolate the growth. We're already far past the January peak baked in due to infections over the past week.
Do you think we've peaked?
P.S. Merry Christmas!
Night all.
No new restrictions in 2021.
Tweet 1475514142563909638 will appear here...
“There's nothing wrong with the car except that it's on fire.”- Murray Walker
An unexpected ONS update released today showing the infection estimates from the most up to date seroprevalence data. In London, they estimate that 9.5% of the population had Covid on 19th December. That's up from a little over 5% on the previous data up to 16th December. Almost a doubling in 3 days. Bear in mind that we're 5 days on from 19th now so likely to be in excess of 20% of the population in London infected now, crazy as it seems. Hospitalisations in London now almost up to the level (400/day) they said where restrictions would need to be implemented. The people hospitalised today would have been infected 10 to 14 days ago, so estimate at least 4 doublings of infections since then. That would be in the region of 6000 per day. In London. That would be catastrophe.
Hopefully, that's an overestimate and the numbers don't continue on that trajectory. I fear the worst.
You don’t even know the correct use of ‘of’ and ‘have’ and ‘their’and there’ so I’d be quiet if I were you. There are toddlers who make more sense and express themselves with more clarity than you, you clown.
You don’t even know the correct use of ‘of’ and ‘have’ and ‘their’and there’ so I’d be quiet if I were you. There are toddlers who make more sense and express themselves with more clarity than you, you clown.
It’s not grammar. It’s intelligence and the capacity to learn something - and you have all the capacity of a broken chest freezer. You’re a laughing stock on this board.
It’s not grammar. It’s intelligence and the capacity to learn something - and you have all the capacity of a broken chest freezer. You’re a laughing stock on this board.
If it triggers pro EU, extreme left wing, faith mocking bigot’s like you then it’s could of.
No apostrophe in ‘bigots’ dopey. Go back to school.
I was never in school left with 0 qualifications but still went on to do well without perfect grammar, and I live a comfortable life in Brexit Britain. But you carry on with ‘your’ or is it ‘you’re’ cheap bigoted attacks.
386 admissions reported today. Doubling every 2-3 days, so more than the January peak by the middle of next week if this growth continues. And it already has, bearing in mind the people admitted today were infected well over a week ago.
And yet it’s being reported today just 20% of new Covid hospital patients are true cases.
It’s certainly getting about now I tested positive yesterday natural flow and PCR. My sister who works in a care home has seen 5 other staff members test positive this week all had their double jabs and boosters. My sister is the only one unvaccinated but did get Covid earlier this year.
It’s certainly getting about now I tested positive yesterday natural flow and PCR. My sister who works in a care home has seen 5 other staff members test positive this week all had their double jabs and boosters. My sister is the only one unvaccinated but did get Covid earlier this year.
Best wishes for your recovery. Hearing of plenty of positive cases with triple vaccination. These are people who were vaccinated beyond the 14 day timescale when protection is effective. Adding more to the discussion that boosters will not quell infections.
“There's nothing wrong with the car except that it's on fire.”- Murray Walker
Good wishes for your recovery. Hearing of plenty of positive cases with triple vaccination. These are people who were vaccinated beyond the 14 day timescale when protection is effective. Adding more to the discussion that boosters will not quell infections.
Good wishes for your recovery. Hearing of plenty of positive cases with triple vaccination. These are people who were vaccinated beyond the 14 day timescale when protection is effective. Adding more to the discussion that boosters will not quell infections.
It’s certainly getting about now I tested positive yesterday natural flow and PCR. My sister who works in a care home has seen 5 other staff members test positive this week all had their double jabs and boosters. My sister is the only one unvaccinated but did get Covid earlier this year.
Best wishes in your recovery.
"The socialism I believe in is everybody working for the same goal and everybody having a share in the rewards. That’s how I see football, that’s how I see life.” Bill Shankly
It’s certainly getting about now I tested positive yesterday natural flow and PCR. My sister who works in a care home has seen 5 other staff members test positive this week all had their double jabs and boosters. My sister is the only one unvaccinated but did get Covid earlier this year.
Best wishes, get well soon.
You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
It’s certainly getting about now I tested positive yesterday natural flow and PCR. My sister who works in a care home has seen 5 other staff members test positive this week all had their double jabs and boosters. My sister is the only one unvaccinated but did get Covid earlier this year.
Thanks for the goodwill messages day 3 now and still feeling rougher than expected to be honest, although I had been carrying a fever and chest infection up to getting Covid, so a bit of a double whammy. Symptoms I have now are very dry cough a slight fever that comes and goes a headache and tiredness nothing to horrendous, it’s the boredom of isolation that’s the worst with the rest of the family being clear.
A little tip that I find helps is pure natural honey I’m finding it really soothing for my throat from all the coughing and it also seems to lesson the coughing.
Hope you recover very soon HC, I’m sure you’ll be fine mate.
By the way is anyone else having problems getting hold of Lateral flow tests ? There isn’t any in Louth, all the chemists are out and have been for 2 weeks, how are we supposed to test ourselves ? I got my code from the NHS app but the code is useless if there aren’t any stocked.
By the way is anyone else having problems getting hold of Lateral flow tests ? There isn’t any in Louth, all the chemists are out and have been for 2 weeks, how are we supposed to test ourselves ? I got my code from the NHS app but the code is useless if there aren’t any stocked.
Some of my workmates who have to do a daily LFT in order to be allowed in the office are having the same problem and reading the news it seems that it's a national problem. No doubt the next valuable government advice will be to 'Use Lateral Flow Tests with caution.'
"Lovelly stuff! not my words but the words of Shakin Stevens."
Was on Radio 5 earlier. All over the country there is a lack of availability. Government says there isn’t of course, but as usual, the truth is not an area in which they dwell. Not exactly out of sync with the way every other aspect of the pandemic has been managed is it.
It's a farce once again. Test, test, test they told us and now Sajid Javid is saying that supply is going to be "constrained" over the next two weeks. There isn't a shortage mind.
The government app says there are none at this time for postage and if you can't get any from your local pharmacy (we can't), try places like a library or local community facility.
The Government app also says to only pick up tests if you have no symptoms, then goes on to say, If you have tests at home, use these instead.
An unexpected ONS update released today showing the infection estimates from the most up to date seroprevalence data. In London, they estimate that 9.5% of the population had Covid on 19th December. That's up from a little over 5% on the previous data up to 16th December. Almost a doubling in 3 days. Bear in mind that we're 5 days on from 19th now so likely to be in excess of 20% of the population in London infected now, crazy as it seems. Hospitalisations in London now almost up to the level (400/day) they said where restrictions would need to be implemented. The people hospitalised today would have been infected 10 to 14 days ago, so estimate at least 4 doublings of infections since then. That would be in the region of 6000 per day. In London. That would be catastrophe.
Hopefully, that's an overestimate and the numbers don't continue on that trajectory. I fear the worst.
Tweet 1476628115904475140 will appear here...
“There's nothing wrong with the car except that it's on fire.”- Murray Walker
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