Tory Vermin

I think Starmer has actually shown some mental strength for a change, he knows Israel are correct to finish Hamas once and for all, it would of been so easy to curtail to the left and fully support a ceasefire, so for the first time ever I will commend him on this, just maybe there is a bit of leadership inside him.

Quoted from Humbercod

I think Starmer has actually shown some mental strength for a change, he knows Israel are correct to finish Hamas once and for all, it would of been so easy to curtail to the left and fully support a ceasefire, so for the first time ever I will commend him on this, just maybe there is a bit of leadership inside him.

Good post. All right thinking people are horrified at the loss of life on all sides and the ongoing slaughter of civilians is a living hell. Of course we all want it to stop. But let’s be real - a ceasefire can only really be deemed a real thing if it’s permanent and both sides would stick to it. That’s not going to happen. As long as there’s an Israel, Hamas will want to attack it, and as long as there’s a Hamas, Israel will want to eradicate it. I can’t see how this can be over because I can’t see how Hamas can be extinguished using this current strategy. It’s just the poor people of all racial denominations caught in the crossfire being killed and maimed - just inexpressibly tragic. Of course all our hearts say ‘ceasefire now’. Client media using this complex and nuanced scenario as some form of stick to beat labour with is just distasteful and unhelpful.
In effect, Starmer’s stance is the same, and consistently so, as Sunak and many a world leader.

As usual, James has it right in this monologue:

Quoted from Humbercod

I think Starmer has actually shown some mental strength for a change, he knows Israel are correct to finish Hamas once and for all, it would of been so easy to curtail to the left and fully support a ceasefire, so for the first time ever I will commend him on this, just maybe there is a bit of leadership inside him.

But it won’t finish Hamas. Hamas is not finished until Iran want it to be finished. There will always be plenty of Palestinian youth to sign up to almost certain death with the promise of paradise in the thereafter in return for Iranian cash and weapons.

I’ve listened and watched loads on this - the BBC 50 years of conflict on iPlayer, Yuval Harari and the Palestinian Fatah ambassador on the Rest is Politics podcast in particular are worth a watch/listen. The whole thing is intractable, way more so than NIreland ever was - religious fascists on one side using the lives of Palestinian people to achieve destabilisation of the region and create divisions in the west, and an abhorrent apartheid regime in an otherwise democratic country (with many sidelined secularists), on the other.

It is a very difficult position for Starmer - he has skin in the game after all. But he’s fallen into the same trap that Iran laid for Israel.

Quoted from Limerick Mariner

But it won’t finish Hamas. Hamas is not finished until Iran want it to be finished. There will always be plenty of Palestinian youth to sign up to almost certain death with the promise of paradise in the thereafter in return for Iranian cash and weapons.

I'd imagine that the thousands of Palestinian children being orphaned/losing siblings/parents/grandparents over the past few weeks probably won't be very well-disposed towards the state of Israel when they get older. Probably hundreds of thousands of others in surrounding states and elsewhere the Muslim world as well.

The only way anything can improve is some sort of a peace process which ends up with a two-state solution. That scumbag Netanyahu couldn't have done much more to ensure that the opportunities for movement towards such a solution was pretty much zero and the faceless leaders of Hamas will happily continue to terrorise for as long as they get the chance. Another lost generation.

I'm personally expecting another wave of Islamist terrorism around the world given the generally uncritical support of Israel during the assault on Gaza as well. No lessons are ever learned.

Agree mate.

Quoted from Limerick Mariner

But it won’t finish Hamas. Hamas is not finished until Iran want it to be finished. There will always be plenty of Palestinian youth to sign up to almost certain death with the promise of paradise in the thereafter in return for Iranian cash and weapons.

I’ve listened and watched loads on this - the BBC 50 years of conflict on iPlayer, Yuval Harari and the Palestinian Fatah ambassador on the Rest is Politics podcast in particular are worth a watch/listen. The whole thing is intractable, way more so than NIreland ever was - religious fascists on one side using the lives of Palestinian people to achieve destabilisation of the region and create divisions in the west, and an abhorrent apartheid regime in an otherwise democratic country (with many sidelined secularists), on the other.

It is a very difficult position for Starmer - he has skin in the game after all. But he’s fallen into the same trap that Iran laid for Israel.

Israel should have their troops permanently stationed there to keep their eyes on them or at least for a few generations, Much like the British army in Germany, once they reach the point of a functional, civil, trustworthy society, then they could slowly hand over.

What Hamas did on Oct 7th was discraceful ,

But

What Israel have done in the last month is convert thousand of young people to Hamas and they will want revenge for years to come.

So the idea of Israel getting rid of Hamas has backfired..

Quoted from grimsby pete

What Hamas did on Oct 7th was discraceful ,

But

What Israel have done in the last month is convert thousand of young people to Hamas and they will want revenge for years to come.

So the idea of Israel getting rid of Hamas has backfired..

“What Hamas did was disgraceful!” Really Pete?
That’s your way to describe the biggest slaughter of innocent Jews since the holocaust! Over a thousand people killed in one day including women and kids, over 150 taken hostage and you follow it up with a

But!

That’s really insensitive Pete, I like you as a poster on here and  you’re a good contributor, but I’m amazed how easily people can just brush aside what happened on the 7th of October!

Put yourself in their position and tell me honestly what you would expect them to do?

I am only saying what a lot of peole are and that is 2 wrongs dont make a right.

If Israel were just killing fighters  not many people would be concerned but they  are killing women and children many of them babies.

I could have said what Hamas did was flipping horrific which it was but i was not trying to make matters worse by inflaming the post.

Like all wars its the innocent  that suffer the most.

This is such a complex situation so forgive me for over simplifying things but,
key to this for me is in the innocent part!
I don’t differentiate between the slaying of innocent people based on where they live or what god they worship. All of it appalls me truth be told and it doesn’t have to be this way.

It is yet another example about the futility of war and the total disregard for the value of human life. To the players involved, normal people there, people like us are expendable irrespective of their motivation for murdering men, women and children.
It’s utterly senseless, depressing, unnecessary and inhumane!
At the end of the day Violence begets Violence and in a world of ‘an eye for an eye’ we all end up sightless.