Twenty First Group

The club has a new partnership with TFG and a new board member, Gareth Jennings.

https://gtfc.co.uk/club-statem.....mercial-performance/

https://www.twentyfirstgroup.com/tfg-grimsby-town-fc/

Another step forward for the club.  Success breeds success.  

I was excited about this, then I saw they are involved with Spurs....

Seriously though, this is a positive move and shows we are moving forward and embracing the modern game, worlds apart from 3 years ago.

I don't even understand what they actually do other than they are consultants making a pot load of money.

Quoted from Madeleymariner

I don't even understand what they actually do other than they are consultants making a pot load of money.

This. It theoretically sounds like exciting news - but I'd be interested to get some more details about what precisely they're going to bring to the table. The press release is pretty wishy washy.

It's like corporate buzzword Bingo in those statements...

That said, it seems a progressive move forward.  This page is quite interesting on their website https://www.twentyfirstgroup.com/impact/ I think some of the examples and a bit ambiguous for my liking.  Lots of actions and suggestions, but limited or at best loose 'impacts'.  But a few nuggets in there all the same.

I'm fairly sure that JS and AP know what they are doing, I have complete faith in them.

Looks like they do tactical, recruitment and investment/commercial based data analysis. All things we need. I'd imagine that those vests players play and train in produce a large amount of data that we're not harnessing as well as we could be. Again, the data the scouting network collects probably could be put to better use. The more you build up your database the more complex it becomes to analyse, so the less likely you are to make as good use of it if you don't have the expertise in house. This will be what we were doing with Loughbrough Uni but a step up and more bespoke, I'd imagine. They have an impressive list of clients this company, hopefully we'll start reaping the benefits of this fairly rapidly.

Their whole website is a bit “wishy washy”. It’s only really once you get into the case studies that you get a sense of what they do. They’re an analytics company which uses big data to looks for patterns and, ultimately, insights into the way an organisation does things, with a view to spotting areas that can be strengthened in ways that haven’t been thought of before.

They’ve focussed on a variety of different areas, from the more small-scale examples of helping clubs with manager searches (see Swansea: https://www.twentyfirstgroup.com/portfolio-item/swansea-city-head-coach-search/) and helping BT Sport grow its customer base after significantly reducing its marketing budget (https://www.twentyfirstgroup.com/portfolio-item/bt-sport-premier-league-predictions/), to huge root-and-branch reviews like the ECB’s High Performance Review (https://www.twentyfirstgroup.com/portfolio-item/ecb-high-performance-review/).

It’s unclear what Town are going to use them for – it could be the playing side or commercial side or both. Maybe we’ll get some more info from the pod interview.

That's all well and good but can they give us a new Main stand?

Our owners certainly seem to move in rarefied business circles, but why does it always sound so vague?

I think I’ve been sceptical of just about every corporate press release since this one (replete with obligatory Partridge-esque quote from Fenty)…

Quoted Text

Grimsby Town football Club has secured the backing of property developer Extreme Leisure in its quest to build a new 14,000-capacity stadium.

As well as the stadium, the partnership will see Extreme Leisure develop an ice rink arena, additional sports and leisure facilities, retail stores, and food and beverage outlets in the Peaks Parkway area of the town.

The expected cost of the project is likely to be in excess of £55m (US$73.4m, €65.3m), although Extreme Leisure has “secured full funding” which includes expressions of interest and pre-let agreements for 50 per cent of the development.

It has been estimated that the facility will open up 320 jobs, excluding construction, when complete.

Both the club and the organisation are progressing with the project’s viability assessment ahead of applying for pre-application planning. There will also be further consultations with interested parties.

John Fenty, Grimsby Town director, said the development would “ensure that Grimsby Town Football Club remains at the heart of the community for future generations”.

“We are very pleased to have teamed up with Extreme who have an outstanding track record of delivering excellence in the leisure industry,” he added. “They say that good things come to those who wait, and we’ve waited so we are looking forward to the day when the ground is broken.”

Extreme Leisure founder and chair Alistair Gosling said the project is expected to “provide inbound investment, local employment and better facilities” for local residents and visitors.

Grimsby Town were promoted back into the Football League last season after spending six years as a non-league club.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

That's all well and good but can they give us a new Main stand?

They might be able to tell you what the ROI of a new main stand would be and where it ranks in the many ways we have of spending money.

Their CEO is Mr B Wooster.......

Jason did say they where working to understand & define a long term strategy.

Feels like a good thing overall and a million miles away from the stone age approach of the last "custodian".

Is it this Gareth Jennings?

https://www.linkedin.com/in/gareth-jennings-93221664/?originalSubdomain=uk

Quoted from brigg_mariner

Is it this Gareth Jennings?

https://www.linkedin.com/in/gareth-jennings-93221664/?originalSubdomain=uk

It is that Gareth Jennings, I wonder if the confidential EFL club he's been a non-executive director of since January is us?

Hopefully it'll be a bit of that moneyball type stuff, be able to find hidden gems from the lower leagues based on more than just hurst watching them in a couple of games (not that he doesnt have a good eye for players as he gets more right than wrong generally)

I believe they’ll gather data from games played by other teams in our league in that current season. (Games played, won, lost, drawn etc).  They can then use all this information to produce an up to date league table for the club’s website.  Thus preventing any complaints from fans that ours is not up to date. 😉

My experience of consultants was they did three things. These were reselling solutions that had worked elsewhere, filling a skills or knowledge gap, or fixing a problem that the business hadn’t been able to fix. Normally I didn’t like the reselling side of things. Something that worked somewhere wouldn’t necessarily work somewhere else. Saying that us picking up a few of the less sophisticated ideas that have worked elsewhere might really help. Bits and pieces premiership and champ clubs did years ago could be a big leap forward for us.

Recent interviews have talked about the importance of recruitment. Being better commercially works alongside that so I get the logic. Hope it works out.

'we work with some of the worlds most elite clubs......and Grimsby'  

Feels a bit like we're out of place being associated with these lot, but if we go up the leagues now they'll have an easy time selling their services to other clubs I guess.

There's a hint of us having access to loads of data already but not quite being sure what to do with it in there, if so can only be a positive.  Likewise the new board member sounds like getting a football guy in to plug a knowledge gap in the boardroom, continual improvement in all aspects not just the pitch and all that.  Impressive CV on the fella anyway and you'd imagine better advice will be presented than that from Shaun 'it's sustainable as long as you're willing to pay for it' Harvey

https://www.linkedin.com/in/gareth-jennings-93221664/?originalSubdomain=uk

that's a mightily impressive c.v. for a director of  a middling div 2 club

going to make tonight's podcast a 'must listen'

Further to the above comments, Consultants in a work environment are good at gaining most of their insights into the company from talking to employees.  They then use this information as their own ideas in reports to management (for a fat fee).

Managers can also use external consultants to recommend (say) job losses.  If managers are unwilling or too frightened to announce staff redundancies, then it is a good cop-out to blame the decision on recommendations made by consultants.

The civil service spends more hundreds of millions of public money each year on the above points.

Quoted from GrimRob

They might be able to tell you what the ROI of a new main stand would be and where it ranks in the many ways we have of spending money.

Well let's hope we get a bit more information as to the practical benefits to the club, and indeed what the Republic of Ireland has to do with it.

On a more serious note I think it is important they don't get too wrapped up in corporate speak when making these announcements and remember that the majority of our fan base don't spend their days in corporate boardrooms, and might prefer more information on how the club will benefit, and how ,if at all ,it will affect fans. I've seen some comments on Twitter calling it word salad, business gobblygook and what does it even mean.

1878 and now the 21st group.

It'll be the 69s next.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

I've seen some comments on Twitter calling it word salad, business gobblygook and what does it even mean.

Yes, I also miss the days of plain speaking and the “laser like” straight-to-the-point language of the prior regime.

tbh I think this is a lot more than just management consultants. This could be taking us from Fenty's early - mid 20th century business model to an operation that may well end up with us being 1 step ahead of nearly all lower league opposition.
The appointment of Gareth Jennings could be a massive appointment. His involvement has been with organisations light years away from we are . Looks like a real coup

Hhhmm...
Wait and see, at the end of the day for me
I just wanna see good footie on the pitch
with out fancy phrases and buzzwords.
UTM.

Quoted from The Caterham Mariner

Hhhmm...
Wait and see, at the end of the day for me
I just wanna see good footie on the pitch
with out fancy phrases and buzzwords.
UTM.

and you're far, far more likely to see good footie with data analysis, proper recruitment, a professional operation, a holistic outlook rather than Fenty's 'it's my way or the high way'/'Something will turn up' philosophy

Rather than prejudge, why don’t we wait and see what transpires? The fact that they have a very healthy balance sheet is a great start.

Think I read developing a football plan in there somewhere, something which we have certainly struggled with this season, having a more react to the opposition approach rather stamping our own style on a game.
I wonder if these are also reactions to what we all know was a couple of poor transfer windows really.

Quoted from The Caterham Mariner

Hhhmm...
Wait and see, at the end of the day for me
I just wanna see good footie on the pitch
with out fancy phrases and buzzwords.
UTM.

That’s where you and I differ- my only reason for sitting in the Pontoon is to hear the latest ‘fancy phrases’ on offer.

Quoted from GrimRob

They might be able to tell you what the ROI of a new main stand would be and where it ranks in the many ways we have of spending money.

They need to forget about analysing ROI, the main stand is made of 100 year old wood, for goodness sake!! It needs replacing, and the fact there will be no economic benefit has to be accepted.

Quoted from 140381

Yes, I also miss the days of plain speaking and the “laser like” straight-to-the-point language of the prior regime.

Nobody, and I mean nobody was a fiercer critic of Fenty than me, often at the time swimming against the tide of Fishy opinion. However we have to move on from that if any point made about 1878 is seen as being as a direct comparison to how Fenty handled things.

I am merely musing that we seem to hear a lot about the current buzzwords of sustainability and data and B Corp accreditation and so on but very little about concrete plans to improve the ticketing, or the capacity or a whole host of things that need looking at.

If it turns out that this latest initiative (which isn't coming cheap by the sounds of it in an interview given to Matt Dean) is just the right thing to do and will be a catalyst for improvements yet to come then I needn't have worried, but I am not 100% convinced it is necessary at this stage. Stockwood believes in it which is fair enough but it is worth discussing.

As Poojah alluded to, we are a naturally sceptical bunch after our previous experience of experts such as Extreme Leisure. Not listened to tonights interview yet but will be doing. My initial thoughts are, what has he been hired to do for the UAE top flight and why is their website a bit suspect? CodAlmighty uncovered their webpage about their MD in Latin, which is a bit of a clanger for a professional organisation to drop.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Nobody, and I mean nobody was a fiercer critic of Fenty than me, often at the time swimming against the tide of Fishy opinion. However we have to move on from that if any point made about 1878 is seen as being as a direct comparison to how Fenty handled things.

I am merely musing that we seem to hear a lot about the current buzzwords of sustainability and data and B Corp accreditation and so on but very little about concrete plans to improve the ticketing, or the capacity or a whole host of things that need looking at.

If it turns out that this latest initiative (which isn't coming cheap by the sounds of it in an interview given to Matt Dean) is just the right thing to do and will be a catalyst for improvements yet to come then I needn't have worried, but I am not 100% convinced it is necessary at this stage. Stockwood believes in it which is fair enough but it is worth discussing.

May be it’s because unlike Fenty and the morons around him, these guys actually know the buzz words and what they mean…

H8 buzzwords and the gardian, luv to kick it in the goal and 4-4-2, pint off bitter and a egg on toast 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧👍 #antiwoke

Naturally cynical about football, naturally cautious about the whole world of consultancy - I think that's healthy because we're only trying to protect what we love.

First thing to say is that I think JS and AP have been very open and transparent with us. Would I trust them with my wallet over Fenty? Absolutely. Think they've earned our trust, but they should also never be given a free ride. We've got to keep holding any board or owners to account, I'm sure they get that more than anyone.

That press release, and the Twenty First Group's website, fall a bit short of professionalism considering the standards we're aiming for.

While I broadly get what they'll offer, and I can see how it's an opportunity, no one's mentioned at what cost? These guys can't be cheap, if what they're selling is as transformative as we hope.

Why would Jennings join the board with a CV as heavy as his? What does he stand to gain from this against all the other pies he has fingers in? We look like a drop in the ocean compared to his experience.

I agree with JS when he says only those businesses who invest in data will be successful in 10 years' time. However, there's a weird culture around data in that it's seen as this golden answer to a lot of problems.

Data has been around for donkeys of years, it's just computerised and brought together more efficiently now. Data in football is still driven by someone watching football. Data might help find a player who's skilled and undervalued, but he might not be a good social fit, so there's still stuff to consider away from the spreadsheet before we can get truly excited about its possible success.

Not trying to play a downer on this, I think what they're doing is positive and healthy, but consultancies and data can also be easy cop-outs when things don't work out.

I'm intrigued by this, it seems a step forward — I've still got questions about its merits (and benefits for the Twenty First Group) and its cost to the club — but the proof of the pudding will be in a few years' time and today could end up being one of the best decisions 1878 made for the club and the town.

Quoted from forza ivano

and you're far, far more likely to see good footie with data analysis, proper recruitment, a professional operation, a holistic outlook rather than Fenty's 'it's my way or the high way'/'Something will turn up' philosophy

We already have 2 Heads of Recruitment, and who currently is using the data we get from the little machines on the back of the players?

For a club the size of Grimsby we are looking top heavy in the non playing side of the club, and it would be interesting to compare us to the likes of Stevenage who were transformed from a relegation favourite to getting promotion in one season.

At the end of the day you can have all the data in the world but that won't help when Efete goes missing at the far post.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Nobody, and I mean nobody was a fiercer critic of Fenty than me, often at the time swimming against the tide of Fishy opinion. However we have to move on from that if any point made about 1878 is seen as being as a direct comparison to how Fenty handled things.

I am merely musing that we seem to hear a lot about the current buzzwords of sustainability and data and B Corp accreditation and so on but very little about concrete plans to improve the ticketing, or the capacity or a whole host of things that need looking at.

If it turns out that this latest initiative (which isn't coming cheap by the sounds of it in an interview given to Matt Dean) is just the right thing to do and will be a catalyst for improvements yet to come then I needn't have worried, but I am not 100% convinced it is necessary at this stage. Stockwood believes in it which is fair enough but it is worth discussing.

Lew, I know. My comments were directed at the helmets on twitter.

Quoted from arryarryarry

We already have 2 Heads of Recruitment, and who currently is using the data we get from the little machines on the back of the players?

For a club the size of Grimsby we are looking top heavy in the non playing side of the club, and it would be interesting to compare us to the likes of Stevenage who were transformed from a relegation favourite to getting promotion in one season.

At the end of the day you can have all the data in the world but that won't help when Efete goes missing at the far post.

NO, there are not 2 heads of recruitment. As far as I can tell 1 looks at future targets, the other looks at data concerning the current players.

'For a club the size of Grimsby we are looking top heavy in the non playing side of the club' Please provide evidence for your assertion

Compared to Fenty, yes we are probably top heavy but compared to Wycombe, Lincoln, Luton,Stockport, Rotherham, Wrexham, Peterborough etc I suspect not

Quoted from diehardmariner

It's like corporate buzzword Bingo in those statements...

That said, it seems a progressive move forward.  This page is quite interesting on their website https://www.twentyfirstgroup.com/impact/ I think some of the examples and a bit ambiguous for my liking.  Lots of actions and suggestions, but limited or at best loose 'impacts'.  But a few nuggets in there all the same.

I’ve not read it but I’m guessing ‘ Sustainable’ and ‘ diverse ‘ would have been mentioned ?

I suspect we’re not anywhere near top heavy when it comes to non playing football staff but if you compare it to how townnhave been in the past, then yeh, I’m sure it does feel that way.

I know people are still cautious of data and additional coaching staff wtc in football because, as has been said ‘data won’t stop a defender going wandering at the far post’ but in reality, it’s here to stay and the successful teams are using, collecting and applying routines and systems based on data these days…so I guess, if you’re wanting the club to succeed, you don’t have to like it or even understand it but at least acknowledge it’s the sort of thing that will help to keep dragging the club into the 21st century…

Quoted from forza ivano

and you're far, far more likely to see good footie with data analysis, proper recruitment, a professional operation, a holistic outlook rather than Fenty's 'it's my way or the high way'/'Something will turn up' philosophy

Good hope so ..keep it simple for me please
I am still on "Janet & John Books" (Welhome Road Infants)
UTM

Quoted from RichMariner

Naturally cynical about football, naturally cautious about the whole world of consultancy - I think that's healthy because we're only trying to protect what we love.

First thing to say is that I think JS and AP have been very open and transparent with us. Would I trust them with my wallet over Fenty? Absolutely. Think they've earned our trust, but they should also never be given a free ride. We've got to keep holding any board or owners to account, I'm sure they get that more than anyone.

That press release, and the Twenty First Group's website, fall a bit short of professionalism considering the standards we're aiming for.

While I broadly get what they'll offer, and I can see how it's an opportunity, no one's mentioned at what cost? These guys can't be cheap, if what they're selling is as transformative as we hope.

Why would Jennings join the board with a CV as heavy as his? What does he stand to gain from this against all the other pies he has fingers in? We look like a drop in the ocean compared to his experience.

I agree with JS when he says only those businesses who invest in data will be successful in 10 years' time. However, there's a weird culture around data in that it's seen as this golden answer to a lot of problems.

Data has been around for donkeys of years, it's just computerised and brought together more efficiently now. Data in football is still driven by someone watching football. Data might help find a player who's skilled and undervalued, but he might not be a good social fit, so there's still stuff to consider away from the spreadsheet before we can get truly excited about its possible success.

Not trying to play a downer on this, I think what they're doing is positive and healthy, but consultancies and data can also be easy cop-outs when things don't work out.

I'm intrigued by this, it seems a step forward — I've still got questions about its merits (and benefits for the Twenty First Group) and its cost to the club — but the proof of the pudding will be in a few years' time and today could end up being one of the best decisions 1878 made for the club and the town.

I can see what you’re saying Rich and as ever with these things time will tell.

I still think it’s a positive thing or at least exploring this kind of thing is but I guess I’d have probably just settled for an announcement saying that Jennings is joining as a non exec which when you read it that is essentially what it feels like.

My understanding is that GTFC won’t be his full time job and like many other exec’s has different roles in other organisations as well has his expertise those synergies could turn out to be incredibly valuable.

What I do know is that this shows ambition, though JS, AP  and DC have had good careers and success they by their own admission don’t know how to do it at a football club.

Data capture & analysis is now firmly embedded in the playing side of football, indeed this season we’ve heard a couple of players talk about “levels” which is as much about what a lap top tells them as it is what their body is saying.

So I work in a world where we have a lot of data to measure commercial performance & gather customer insights I can see from being a Town supporter that we’re not where we need to be and there will be much gained commercially if Twenty First Group can help.

Quoted from aldi_01

I suspect we’re not anywhere near top heavy when it comes to non playing football staff but if you compare it to how townnhave been in the past, then yeh, I’m sure it does feel that way.

I know people are still cautious of data and additional coaching staff wtc in football because, as has been said ‘data won’t stop a defender going wandering at the far post’ but in reality, it’s here to stay and the successful teams are using, collecting and applying routines and systems based on data these days…so I guess, if you’re wanting the club to succeed, you don’t have to like it or even understand it but at least acknowledge it’s the sort of thing that will help to keep dragging the club into the 21st century…

Ok your last sentence sells it to me, to get into 21st century footie .

It could be my age but does this data led approach seem cold and calculated to anyone else . It's not just a Corporation, it's a family football club with , I hope , family values.  Data never tells the full story and as much as I like Spurs I'd hate to see us run in a similar way .............

Brighton and Brentford still appear to be 'family' football clubs though?

Quoted from Abdul19

Brighton and Brentford still appear to be 'family' football clubs though?

That's true

Quoted from Grimsby2012

1878 and now the 21st group.

It'll be the 69s next.

Now that would be a Sham

Quoted from It Bites

It could be my age but does this data led approach seem cold and calculated to anyone else . It's not just a Corporation, it's a family football club with , I hope , family values.  Data never tells the full story and as much as I like Spurs I'd hate to see us run in a similar way .............

Weren’t we run as a “family football club” over the past two decades, where the person most qualified to be CEO just happened to be the son of the former club secretary? And the best way to sell off the old floodlights was through a small auction house owned by the owner’s brother (I think)?

If nothing else, it’s a move away from the “jobs for the boys” culture that saw us plummet out of the league twice and rattling buckets to pay tax bills.

Get em down the dock and running on the sand dunes. Don't need any of this fancy 'puter nonsense.

Seriously though, this can only be a good thing surely, despite what some of the Luddites may think.

There is an article on the BBC website about AZ Alkmaar and their ability to compete with the giants of Dutch football despite having a fraction of the income. They even have Billy Beane on board. He's the originator of the system in American football.

The basic premise is that despite the size and wealth of your club, it ultimately boils down to 11 v 11 on the pitch, and the smaller clubs can upset the bigger ones with planning and application. We see it in cup games all the time, so it's about taking that a step further and competing on a weekly basis.

I'm all for it and it's so far removed from what we have been used to, it's mind boggling.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

I can see what you’re saying Rich and as ever with these things time will tell.

I still think it’s a positive thing or at least exploring this kind of thing is but I guess I’d have probably just settled for an announcement saying that Jennings is joining as a non exec which when you read it that is essentially what it feels like.

My understanding is that GTFC won’t be his full time job and like many other exec’s has different roles in other organisations as well has his expertise those synergies could turn out to be incredibly valuable.

What I do know is that this shows ambition, though JS, AP  and DC have had good careers and success they by their own admission don’t know how to do it at a football club.

Data capture & analysis is now firmly embedded in the playing side of football, indeed this season we’ve heard a couple of players talk about “levels” which is as much about what a lap top tells them as it is what their body is saying.

So I work in a world where we have a lot of data to measure commercial performance & gather customer insights I can see from being a Town supporter that we’re not where we need to be and there will be much gained commercially if Twenty First Group can help.

Thank you Herts for a sensible post. Jason must feel like he's banging his head against a brick wall, reading some of the Luddite posts on here and elsewhere.
People wondering about the importance of data, well you all use comparison websites for leccy, gas, insurance etc etc - that's data. Remember back in the old days when you had to ring round insurance companies to get quotes, well data brought all that together in 1 space.
How have Brighton, Brentford. Alkmaar, midtjylland and a host of others achieved so much? It's because they been clever in using data

here's an easy to read/understand link, which shows how it impacts on the pitch
https://www.theguardian.com/fo.....alls-data-revolution

it probably isn't going to be cheap advice, but if it improves our commercial offering, if it improves our all round efficiency, if it improves our recruitment, if it improves our awful throw ins, if it improves our injury prevention, if it improves our on field performance then it's worth it.
It's called investment.
In my little business I am about to spend £40 to attend a seminar on Google Analytics. Might be £40 down the drain, but I suspect that I will learn an awful lot and will make my marketing more efficient. And it only has to bring in 1 customer for it to pay for itself. That's investment
Finally if you've got 15 minutes then listen to jason here  https://twitter.com/HumbersideSport/status/1657072183930126348

the final thing I'd say Jason makes the point that no other club at this level is doing this , and the only one he knows about are Plymouth, a small club, who just romped League 1. Just be happy that for once it looks like we are ahead of the curve. Next thing will be that we will be using A.I. before everybody else, but that's a different story...

Quoted from forza ivano

Thank you Herts for a sensible post. Jason must feel like he's banging his head against a brick wall, reading some of the Luddite posts on here and elsewhere.
People wondering about the importance of data, well you all use comparison websites for leccy, gas, insurance etc etc - that's data. Remember back in the old days when you had to ring round insurance companies to get quotes, well data brought all that together in 1 space.
How have Brighton, Brentford. Alkmaar, midtjylland and a host of others achieved so much? It's because they been clever in using data

here's an easy to read/understand link, which shows how it impacts on the pitch
https://www.theguardian.com/fo.....alls-data-revolution

it probably isn't going to be cheap advice, but if it improves our commercial offering, if it improves our all round efficiency, if it improves our recruitment, if it improves our awful throw ins, if it improves our injury prevention, if it improves our on field performance then it's worth it.
It's called investment.
In my little business I am about to spend £40 to attend a seminar on Google Analytics. Might be £40 down the drain, but I suspect that I will learn an awful lot and will make my marketing more efficient. And it only has to bring in 1 customer for it to pay for itself. That's investment
Finally if you've got 15 minutes then listen to jason here  https://twitter.com/HumbersideSport/status/1657072183930126348

the final thing I'd say Jason makes the point that no other club at this level is doing this , and the only one he knows about are Plymouth, a small club, who just romped League 1. Just be happy that for once it looks like we are ahead of the curve. Next thing will be that we will be using A.I. before everybody else, but that's a different story...

I know from experience that will be £40 well spent Forza, Google and particularly Google reviews (when positive) are really useful to any size business and can save lots of unquantifiable marketing & advertising spend.

Jason referenced attracting new investors if we are to attract meaningful investment then we’ll need all the data we can get on and off the pitch as any new investors will need to be sure they’re money is being spent well on the basis of fact.

Totally agree with forza ivano, who I consider the best poster on this forum, always talks sense.

All for trying new stuff, new ideas, new technology that may help improve the club. Ultimately if the club infrastructure, ethos, finances  improve then so should the very small part we see, which is upto around 50 matchday experiences a season.
Better team performances, better facilities, better customer services etc.

Sorting commercial department is one thing that clearly needs doing, Dave Smith may have been better than his replacement but that doesn't mean he was fulfilling the role either.

Getting in advice on that is a smart move.

I agree that we shouldn't just ignore data. I agree it's an investment.

Every company uses data in some form. Whether it's open rates, click-throughs, products bought on a Saturday, cars using a certain lane in an inner city ring road... it's great for helping businesses to make decisions.

The way it's used in football is very different because you're recording movements and decisions of people. Football is statistically volatile, unpredictable, very random. Data doesn't give answers, at best it shows trends.

I just think we need to be careful about putting data on this pedestal. It'll likely help, but how much it helps offset against its cost is something I'm yet to understand.

There are some great case studies being mentioned (Brighton, Brentford, Plymouth). Any future success will likely use data, but won't totally rely on it. We've got to be right in many other areas first for it to contribute in the way we hope it will.

Like any technological advancement, the key is using it effectively. Take AI for example, it is only going to get better but ask ChatGPT to reference what it tells you and the links are often dead or totally irrelevant.

Quoted from forza ivano

Thank you Herts for a sensible post. Jason must feel like he's banging his head against a brick wall, reading some of the Luddite posts on here and elsewhere.
People wondering about the importance of data, well you all use comparison websites for leccy, gas, insurance etc etc - that's data. Remember back in the old days when you had to ring round insurance companies to get quotes, well data brought all that together in 1 space.
How have Brighton, Brentford. Alkmaar, midtjylland and a host of others achieved so much? It's because they been clever in using data

here's an easy to read/understand link, which shows how it impacts on the pitch
https://www.theguardian.com/fo.....alls-data-revolution

it probably isn't going to be cheap advice, but if it improves our commercial offering, if it improves our all round efficiency, if it improves our recruitment, if it improves our awful throw ins, if it improves our injury prevention, if it improves our on field performance then it's worth it.
It's called investment.
In my little business I am about to spend £40 to attend a seminar on Google Analytics. Might be £40 down the drain, but I suspect that I will learn an awful lot and will make my marketing more efficient. And it only has to bring in 1 customer for it to pay for itself. That's investment
Finally if you've got 15 minutes then listen to jason here  https://twitter.com/HumbersideSport/status/1657072183930126348

the final thing I'd say Jason makes the point that no other club at this level is doing this , and the only one he knows about are Plymouth, a small club, who just romped League 1. Just be happy that for once it looks like we are ahead of the curve. Next thing will be that we will be using A.I. before everybody else, but that's a different story...

Is it any good up top?

Quoted from 123614

Totally agree with forza ivano, who I consider the best poster on this forum, always talks sense.

Thanks dad 🤣🤣🤣🤔

Now you will confuse my son who also posts here.  

Yes but when did getting better players and making best use of them ever get you 3 points on a Saturday.

Back in the mid 90's I worked for Dunlop Oil and Marine, in Grimsby, as a hose builder. A young, forward thinking, MD joined the company and soon paid a handsome amount (over a million quid) to a new, international, data lead, systems design consultancy. At the time Dunlop were doing well and so the workforce (including the management), could not understand the need for change. The workforce were encouraged to participate, but there was much resistance and changing the culture to embrace the future was a hard slog. But eventually the firm came out the other end with pretty much everyone on side, apart from the few staunch (and at times angry) naysayers. Dunlop still survive to this day and are regarded as one of the UK's oldest and most successful, manufacturing companies. We'll never truly know if the 2 year systems redesign was fundamental in its continuing success. But it is hard to believe, that the data led changes, that took place all those years ago, didn’t feed into the success, it now enjoys throughout the world. Who knows what success GTFC will enjoy, in part to the involvement of Twenty First Group?

Quoted from thefish

That’s where you and I differ- my only reason for sitting in the Pontoon is to hear the latest ‘fancy phrases’ on offer.

Thank you at least you are in the front line  of info ..what is said  ny fans / supporters..where i am behind the times and playing catch up  .
Your opinion  is respected .
UTM 2023--24
See you next season away .

Quoted from heppy88

Back in the mid 90's I worked for Dunlop Oil and Marine, in Grimsby, as a hose builder. A young, forward thinking, MD joined the company and soon paid a handsome amount (over a million quid) to a new, international, data lead, systems design consultancy. At the time Dunlop were doing well and so the workforce (including the management), could not understand the need for change. The workforce were encouraged to participate, but there was much resistance and changing the culture to embrace the future was a hard slog. But eventually the firm came out the other end with pretty much everyone on side, apart from the few staunch (and at times angry) naysayers. Dunlop still survive to this day and are regarded as one of the UK's oldest and most successful, manufacturing companies. We'll never truly know if the 2 year systems redesign was fundamental in its continuing success. But it is hard to believe, that the data led changes, that took place all those years ago, didn’t feed into the success, it now enjoys throughout the world. Who knows what success GTFC will enjoy, in part to the involvement of Twenty First Group?

My dad worked at Dunlop from the mid 60’s to the early 80’s, he loved it but went to Cosalt for more money.

He was the shop steward at Dunlop for a while and they used to be on strike usually after a holiday period. He tells a story about one day when his counterpart at the Hailwood factory phoned him to say they where going on strike as there was no meat pies on the tea trolley and asked if he would ask the members to join them. My dad still is a socialist but on that occasion he told them to do one.

There were two parts to the announcements on Friday. The data stuff then an experienced senior guy on the football side. The owners have always said the football side was solely down to El General. Surprised that hasn’t been commented on more.

Quoted from Lord Gadiform

There were two parts to the announcements on Friday. The data stuff then an experienced senior guy on the football side. The owners have always said the football side was solely down to El General. Surprised that hasn’t been commented on more.

He's a technical director, which is slightly different. Given that he holds a number of other roles I strongly suspect he's there as a consultant, a bit like they employed that consultant from Aston Clinton when they were taking over from F***y.
He's not a threat to PH , he's bringing in off the field expertise, for which , no doubt, he will be well rewarded.

His very impressive c.v. is here https://www.linkedin.com/in/gareth-jennings-93221664/details/experience/

It's another very interesting move imho, along with the data consultants. 1878 have decided that they need external help in order to progress, and have decided to spend heavily (again it's a guess on my part) on getting the best possible help.
I doubt that no other club at our level (& very few in the league above) will have access to, and the comittment to use, the level of expertise that we are bringing on board
Be thankful that instead of being 25-50 years behind everyone else, we are ahead of the curve on this one

Quoted from forza ivano

He's a technical director, which is slightly different. Given that he holds a number of other roles I strongly suspect he's there as a consultant, a bit like they employed that consultant from Aston Clinton when they were taking over from F***y.
He's not a threat to PH , he's bringing in off the field expertise, for which , no doubt, he will be well rewarded.

His very impressive c.v. is here https://www.linkedin.com/in/gareth-jennings-93221664/details/experience/

It's another very interesting move imho, along with the data consultants. 1878 have decided that they need external help in order to progress, and have decided to spend heavily (again it's a guess on my part) on getting the best possible help.
I doubt that no other club at our level (& very few in the league above) will have access to, and the comittment to use, the level of expertise that we are bringing on board
Be thankful that instead of being 25-50 years behind everyone else, we are ahead of the curve on this one

One thing for sure, he probably isn't going to recommend the board fire Hurst, given his recent comments on Brighton's strategy and the importance of creating that pathway:

“I work with quite a lot of clubs globally in an advisory capacity. A lot of them have got it documented in shiny brochures saying this is the way we play, this is our identity."

“A lot of clubs in panic moments, when the team isn’t doing so well, go and buy the players for now, perhaps rush into it and pay over the odds. That then upsets the balance, so the story you’ve been telling the young players is disrupted."

He also talks about AI and how Brighton can use this for scenario planning and predicting how potential new signings might perform in the Brighton system should they be signed to replace Mac Allister for example.

The UAE appointment is one I am curious about, as I do think the Middle East is prone to "sportswashing" but I do also wonder if commercially, it means a couple of players sign for us to increase our brand globally.

Rasmus Ankersen (credited with initiating data-led analysis in the Guardian link forza ivano provides) is the CEO of Sports Republic
who are the major shareholder in Southampton FC, and he is the Director of Football at the club (since January 2022).

Southampton have just been relegated after 11 years in the top flight, to compound a miserable season in which they were knocked
out of the FA Cup by a mid-table League 2 side.

The club has spent 160M on players their data showed could be developed and sold on for profit. Nearly all those players signed have
failed to break into a poor side which has been facing relegation all season, in no small part due to the club clearing out older, more
experienced players to make room for the incoming stars of the future. The future stars had no-one to learn from to assist their
development.

Southampton identified Nathan Jones (the previous year's EFL Championship Manager of the Season) as the ideal successor to
Ralph Hasenhuttl. Appointed in November 2022 he lasted four months (shortest ever non-caretaker manager the Saints have had).
Selecting a manager with Premiership survival credentials would have been smarter than one who'd shone in the league below,
given the situation they were in.

My point is that data-led analysis (which is an entirely sensible way to proceed, of course) does not prevent poor decision-making.
It should not be viewed as the solution to all our footballing problems!

Consider this: on-field leadership is a desirable footballing attribute.
How would you collect objective data on that?
Yes, you can say player X was captain of team Y when they gained promotion, and give him a tick for that.
But no comparative data is available - player Z might have been an even better captain but didn't get the chance to show it.
If you're trusting the manager to pick the best captain then we're back to "it's all a matter of opinion", which is what data-led
analysis is an attempt to improve upon. And of course on-field leadership isn't restricted to the captain.

I believe football is too ineffably complex to be reduced to data, and provided everyone recognizes that fact then data-led analysis
will be a valuable tool in our success.
The danger is placing too much faith in it.
Ask Southampton fans...

UTM

Personally, I don’t see this as being a completely football decision, I think it’s about using data and embedding modern concepts into the whole club, merchandise, advertising, playing, attendances and so on…

I hope this guy looks at the on line club shop. I'm trying to spend money on FA Cup t-shirts for my grandsons birthday. Every time I click on the link it takes me to a blank page.
I always start by assuming it's my fault cos I'm an old technophobe but the bottom line is it's very badly designed and I've had to give up and buy Man Utd stuff and that really winds me up

Good points by chiangmaimariner. Think jason reiterates in his interview with Matt Dannatt that data isnt a panacea, and it has to be allied to human things like creating a team spirit,  the players character and hursts experience and intuition

Personally I think these are brilliant developments particularly at our level.

Will it make a material difference, I would hope so, as like many contributors to this thread my personal experience of using big data and analytics is favourable, but even if it didn't I would still applaud the effort in trying this.

Quoted from 137

Rasmus Ankersen (credited with initiating data-led analysis in the Guardian link forza ivano provides) is the CEO of Sports Republic
who are the major shareholder in Southampton FC, and he is the Director of Football at the club (since January 2022).

Southampton have just been relegated after 11 years in the top flight, to compound a miserable season in which they were knocked
out of the FA Cup by a mid-table League 2 side.

The club has spent 160M on players their data showed could be developed and sold on for profit. Nearly all those players signed have
failed to break into a poor side which has been facing relegation all season, in no small part due to the club clearing out older, more
experienced players to make room for the incoming stars of the future. The future stars had no-one to learn from to assist their
development.

Southampton identified Nathan Jones (the previous year's EFL Championship Manager of the Season) as the ideal successor to
Ralph Hasenhuttl. Appointed in November 2022 he lasted four months (shortest ever non-caretaker manager the Saints have had).
Selecting a manager with Premiership survival credentials would have been smarter than one who'd shone in the league below,
given the situation they were in.

My point is that data-led analysis (which is an entirely sensible way to proceed, of course) does not prevent poor decision-making.
It should not be viewed as the solution to all our footballing problems!

Consider this: on-field leadership is a desirable footballing attribute.
How would you collect objective data on that?
Yes, you can say player X was captain of team Y when they gained promotion, and give him a tick for that.
But no comparative data is available - player Z might have been an even better captain but didn't get the chance to show it.
If you're trusting the manager to pick the best captain then we're back to "it's all a matter of opinion", which is what data-led
analysis is an attempt to improve upon. And of course on-field leadership isn't restricted to the captain.

I believe football is too ineffably complex to be reduced to data, and provided everyone recognizes that fact then data-led analysis
will be a valuable tool in our success.
The danger is placing too much faith in it.
Ask Southampton fans...

UTM

Good post on the back of another good post from Forza

Quoted from buckstown

I hope this guy looks at the on line club shop. I'm trying to spend money on FA Cup t-shirts for my grandsons birthday. Every time I click on the link it takes me to a blank page.
I always start by assuming it's my fault cos I'm an old technophobe but the bottom line is it's very badly designed and I've had to give up and buy Man Utd stuff and that really winds me up

I would doubt he'd be involved at that level to be honest. This appointment feels similar to a non exec role like what you see in the commercial or charity sectors. This works really well in terms of defining strategy based upon experience and an understanding of the sector that organisation operated in. I would doubt we'll see him on match days and wouldn't be surprised if the time he spends on GTFC would be quantified on days per month rather than weeks based and like most non exec's paid on a day rate.

Quoted from Lord Gadiform

There were two parts to the announcements on Friday. The data stuff then an experienced senior guy on the football side. The owners have always said the football side was solely down to El General. Surprised that hasn’t been commented on more.

He's in a completely different sphere to Hurst. The new lad will probably dial in for monthly strategy meetings with S,P&C to offer experience and best practice from other clubs.  He'll be able to inject our name in to conversations well beyond our current reach and generally raise our profile.

As to what he is getting out of it, a chance to work on an interesting project with our well respected chairman which doesn't conflict with his other roles and if we gain a couple of promotions; another write up saying how successful he is.

Quoted from aldi_01

Personally, I don’t see this as being a completely football decision, I think it’s about using data and embedding modern concepts into the whole club, merchandise, advertising, playing, attendances and so on…

Yeah I can’t see much of this will be playing data .

Like if they’re saying that a ball put into X area of the 18 yard box results in a 50% goal ration I’d expect the players and mangers to already know this info

Quoted from grimps

Yeah I can’t see much of this will be playing data .

Like if they’re saying that a ball put into X area of the 18 yard box results in a 50% goal ration I’d expect the players and mangers to already know this info

Our goal difference suggests they might not....get yourself down to BP with a 3/4 length puffer jacket and an a4 flip folder full of diagrams and arrows highlighting your new strategy ..you might get yourself a consultancy 🤣