Stockwood - Guardian - 13.08.22

[url]https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2022/aug/13/while-money-is-a-huge-help-it-is-culture-that-drives-success-in-football[/url]

“For any players or agents reading this, I’d suggest that when thinking about a move, you assess not only the financial side of it but also the the culture of the organisation involved. The personal values and behaviours of owners will have a massive influence on how people are viewed and treated and will be a good indication of how commoditised and valued a player will be. One way to do this is to look at who controls the money, how they got it and how they act in their other businesses.”

Spot on
Shame that football authorities don’t have the same values

Quoted from Knut Anders Fosters Voles

[url]https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2022/aug/13/while-money-is-a-huge-help-it-is-culture-that-drives-success-in-football[/url]

“For any players or agents reading this, I’d suggest that when thinking about a move, you assess not only the financial side of it but also the the culture of the organisation involved. The personal values and behaviours of owners will have a massive influence on how people are viewed and treated and will be a good indication of how commoditised and valued a player will be. One way to do this is to look at who controls the money, how they got it and how they act in their other businesses.”

Sounds a veiled dig at someone......

That's all very nice and dandy but agents don't give two fooks about all that, you can't take a percentage on culture.

Reality.

Quoted from smokey111

Sounds a veiled dig at someone......

Sounds like a dig at the majority of football club owners and a lot business owners.

Quoted from Swansea_Mariner

That's all very nice and dandy but agents don't give two fooks about all that, you can't take a percentage on culture.

Reality.

But if agents clients, the players, start to care about more than the pound notes, the agents have to start caring about them too.

Quoted from jamesgtfc

But if agents clients, the players, start to care about more than the pound notes, the agents have to start caring about them too.

It would be great to live in that world but we don't. Simples.

Let's concentrate on affecting the areas of change we can.

The intangibles of success (in terms of results) in football have always represented a challenge to definition. Compare the 2 Manchester clubs, both wealthy beyond measure, both with foreign owners, but also now at opposite ends of the 'success continuum'. Both have hugely successful Academy schemes, but the cultural divide could scarcely seem wider. Under Alex Ferguson, United's manager for 26 years and with Sir Matt Busby in the chair of the boardroom, the players, who were nurtured and grew up together, enjoyed immense success. Under the Glazers' ownership, distant and detached, and a succession of 'failed' managers, the team seems to be a rag bag of individual 'stars' but little cohesion amongst some big egos. At City, the owners, fossil fuel middle eastern super rich royalty, are nonetheless fully engaged with the club. Guardiola is a brilliant, proven coach and tactician who gets the team to play the 'Pep way' and the young stars are carefully schooled and only graduate to the first team when they are ready. Of course, the team is supplemented with expensive overseas players, but these seem hand-picked for their character as well as their ability. Players who can't seem to accept being dropped (Raheem Sterling springs to mind) are let go, perhaps to protect discipline elsewhere in the camp. i think these 2 examples of clubs matched for wealth, but not culture, lend support to Jason's thoughtful piece and suggest Town are going about their business the right, if more humble, way.

Quoted from Swansea_Mariner

It would be great to live in that world but we don't. Simples.

Let's concentrate on affecting the areas of change we can.

One area of change we can have a positive effect is culture surely? People are starting to talk positively about Stockwood as an owner and I'm sure word is spreading that this is a good place to come and play your football.

Quoted from jamesgtfc

One area of change we can have a positive effect is culture surely? People are starting to talk positively about Stockwood as an owner and I'm sure word is spreading that this is a good place to come and play your football.

Of course we can,  and I do agree culture is important and we could  possibly  create a usp for ourselves with a different style of offering but the reality is it will always have a marginal impact when faced with pay disparity.

Great I say go for it, I think JS is right in this respect, we can't compete on pay but we can try to compete in other ways. But  let's not conflate that with some kind of systemic change wherby agents actions and motivations change because I don't  think its remotely likely.

Let's take that to its logical  conclusion, let's say every club, every manager and every player starts to care more about the culture of a club. All clubs lift that ceiling across the whole system in response to demand. This higher standard becomes  the new norm. What differentiates one excellent organisational culture from another in this new paradigm. Money. Like it does now, like it would then.

It's not even "grubby" why is it grubby? Do you feel grubby when you negotiate a pay rise or a salary when you move jobs. I don't its practical, I don't live in some abstract reality where I work out of some kind of altruism. Why should a football player be any different.

The culture which JS is starting to install here will not get us 3 points at BP, BUT when it comes to recruitment and a player has a choice between Town and elsewhere ( assuming similar wages, or slightly less) then the culture will come into it. Players like to be looked after and will talk to others to find out about the way Town will look after them.

Footballers aren't that different to the rest of us especially in the lower leagues. Salary will be an important factor but it isn't everything. Who doesn't want to work somewhere that treats them well, with decent managers who want to help them develop and show them respect?

Quoted from DB

The culture which JS is starting to install here will not get us 3 points at BP, BUT when it comes to recruitment and a player has a choice between Town and elsewhere ( assuming similar wages, or slightly less) then the culture will come into it. Players like to be looked after and will talk to others to find out about the way Town will look after them.

It’s very aspirational but, put yourself in the shoes of a young player (most of them are!) and tell me that, in your short career, a club’s culture is more important than the pay package and the location.

It’s great that we have a chairman that has changed the club so radically and at such speed but these players are still on relatively low salaries compared to the phone number wages of those higher up the ladder.

One could argue that the culture does help you get three points. People misjudge footballers as simply taking the best deal for them financially when in truth, as proven this summer at town, that isn’t always the case.

If a club has a culture that nurtures talent, suppers players and takes in to account wellbeing and so forth, they will recruit better staff, not just players but coaches, back room staff and the likes. In turn, that will harvest better results. Word gets around and the recruitment improves.

His points about agents are valid and whilst there are agents that are no doubt in it for themselves, plenty simply want the best deal for their client and having spoken to a few over the years, they have spoken about the culture of a club, the manager, the set up etc.

I think we often associate agents being money grabbing whores because we hear those stories of agents representing the likes of Pogba etc who are constantly pushing for a move for their client, especially when they receive say 10% of a fee but at our level it isn’t always likes that.

The game is evolving and whilst we know most about our own club, there are others that have achieved what we’re aiming for; Lincoln, Luton, FGR are three I can think of and I suspect there are more. At the top level, having watched the arsenal documentary, they could be added to that list and it will grow. The game is changing. Things take time, but it is changing, and in many aspects, changing for the better.

I’m not gonna lie though, I’ve personally never understood why anyone needs an agent, financial advisor perhaps, especially with the money involved for some but the lower down the leagues it just seems like they’re wasting their money.

I don't think we're claiming salary isn't important are we? But that culture and how you treat people is as well. I'd also argue that you see the culture that's being created with the late goals and comebacks. It's a two way street as well in terms of signing players who fit in with the club.

Thought the Hurst interview was interesting yesterday when he mentioned that when we got relegated and Waterfall was in appalling form that he thought he struggled with the attitudes of a lot of other players in that squad. Remember Morris and Payne at Bradford?

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

I don't think we're claiming salary isn't important are we? But that culture and how you treat people is as well. I'd also argue that you see the culture that's being created with the late goals and comebacks. It's a two way street as well in terms of signing players who fit in with the club.

Thought the Hurst interview was interesting yesterday when he mentioned that when we got relegated and Waterfall was in appalling form that he thought he struggled with the attitudes of a lot of other players in that squad. Remember Morris and Payne at Bradford?

I’d agree with this, I get the impression that Waterfall is a hugely influential professional, is self critical and can support and encourage others. His confidence was shot to pieces by Holloway, or certainly after the most unprofessional spell with the most unprofessional players in ten years.

I suspect that’s why Hurst kept him on, he knew deep down there was still a player in there. It’s also my understanding that Waterfall was happy to stick his neck out last season when certain players weren’t pulling their weight and called them out and went to see the gaffer.

Like I said, as fans we seemingly obsess over the best financial deal but actually, like any of us, the environment and culture play a big part. I had a great job and great salary but the organisation was awful, my line manager was one short of being a bully and expectations were unrealistic…I left, plenty have done the same in other jobs. Footballers are no different.

Allegiance to one side, if you had to choose between GTFC no and GTFC under Fenty, I know which I’d rather play for…

Quoted from aldi_01

I’d agree with this, I get the impression that Waterfall is a hugely influential professional, is self critical and can support and encourage others. His confidence was shot to pieces by Holloway, or certainly after the most unprofessional spell with the most unprofessional players in ten years.

I suspect that’s why Hurst kept him on, he knew deep down there was still a player in there. It’s also my understanding that Waterfall was happy to stick his neck out last season when certain players weren’t pulling their weight and called them out and went to see the gaffer.

Like I said, as fans we seemingly obsess over the best financial deal but actually, like any of us, the environment and culture play a big part. I had a great job and great salary but the organisation was awful, my line manager was one short of being a bully and expectations were unrealistic…I left, plenty have done the same in other jobs. Footballers are no different.

Allegiance to one side, if you had to choose between GTFC no and GTFC under Fenty, I know which I’d rather play for…

Waterfall was told he was free to find another club when we got relegated as Hurst couldn't guarantee him games. He came on as a 90th minute sub against Weymouth first game of the season, started the next one due to someone being injured and hasn't looked back since.

Hurst mentioned this in the interview. Told him he was free to talk to other clubs at the end of the season and he then returned to pre-season in unbelievable physical shape and worked harder than anyone else.

Football is a short career. Most players are finished with the professional game well before they hit 30. Look at Adam Crookes and Scott Burgess. Both around 24 aren’t they? And now at the very last rung of the professional ladder at York City. Another step down and they’re playing semi-pro.

League 2 players can’t make themselves comfortably off for life by being clever with their money like top end League 1 and the average Championship players can. If any of us was in their position we’d be trying to extract every single penny out of a short career before the game spits you out again 30-40 years before retirement age.

Stockwood and GTFC are coming at it from thinking available players should be desperate to sign for a club at a decent wage.

Those players and agents are coming at it from the angle of “numerous clubs will have a terrible start to the season and will panic and offer a better and possibly longer deal to improve their faltering squads in a couple of weeks when the window is shutting”.

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

Hurst mentioned this in the interview. Told him he was free to talk to other clubs at the end of the season and he then returned to pre-season in unbelievable physical shape and worked harder than anyone else.

You’re made of pretty strong stuff to do what Luke Waterfall has done in the last twelve months. Compare that to many players, several who’ve been with us, that have just accepted their fate and gravitated to the next level down.

If you read autobiographies of players then you will often come across glaring examples of how much players are effected by the culture, atmosphere and running of clubs....and how they have pops at their agents for getting them into such places.

Money will always play a factor but lets say we pushed the boat the out and bought a marquee signing in........who signed for the cash.....but he soon realises how well he is looked after, how well they are treated, how well his family are treated etc would he be as tempted to walk away ?  Or if we make him sit in a wheelie bin of fish Dock ice to cure an injury or suggest he can get a second job to top his wages up...

Quoted from MuddyWaters

It’s very aspirational but, put yourself in the shoes of a young player (most of them are!) and tell me that, in your short career, a club’s culture is more important than the pay package and the location.

It’s great that we have a chairman that has changed the club so radically and at such speed but these players are still on relatively low salaries compared to the phone number wages of those higher up the ladder.

I see your point, but how many times over the years have we missed out on a player that went to 'more attractive' location?

We can't change the location of the club, but we can give it the best reputation for being a good club to play for.  When I say 'we', I mean the owners, obvs

Imagine what Pepple thought yesterday...new country, new club, been here 5 minutes and sees 1250 fans at an away game cheering the team on.

Quoted from moosey_club

If you read autobiographies of players then you will often come across glaring examples of how much players are effected by the culture, atmosphere and running of clubs....and how they have pops at their agents for getting them into such places.

Money will always play a factor but lets say we pushed the boat the out and bought a marquee signing in........who signed for the cash.....but he soon realises how well he is looked after, how well they are treated, how well his family are treated etc would he be as tempted to walk away ?  Or if we make him sit in a wheelie bin of fish Dock ice to cure an injury or suggest he can get a second job to top his wages up...

There’s a big assumption that there’s a load of clubs that are being as badly run as we were badly run. There may be some, granted, but they are few and far between.

Italian clubs got it right, I mean they get a lot wrong but they did get it right when they began employing well-being type folk mid 90s.

They saw they were investing in the players so crated player liaison roles etc. it took a while to happen in the UK but they exist now and actually you can see the impact of that.

I remember reading about a player at Chelsea about 20 years ago, came over, didn’t speak the language and was out up in a hotel and just told to turn up at training.

Hated it for ages then one player took the time and showed him around, schools etc before he brought all his family over, eventually he settled and surprise surprise, his performances picked up.

Culture is everything and some clubs are further on that journey but it’s so important to have a relational climate that values everyone. City won the league and whilst we know the allures earn obscene cash, in their title celebrations every one was involved, analysts, kit man, tea lady, everyone…

Quoted from MuddyWaters

You’re made of pretty strong stuff to do what Luke Waterfall has done in the last twelve months. Compare that to many players, several who’ve been with us, that have just accepted their fate and gravitated to the next level down.

Absolutely. Worth it's weight in gold having character like that on the pitch.

I think this confirms what we all suspected and that is that the club had a bad reputation as not being a great place to work until recently. I think as a cultural and recruitment strategy what JS talks through is excellent and despite the greed in the game its something that personally I'd like our club to be famous for.

Not being the biggest payers (we can't be) but a great place to work will attract players with good values which in sport equals good work ethic which actually can take you some distance. I'd suggest that it will also get you players with character, maybe we're in that place to a degree already with the current squad who are developing a DNA that includes honest graft, application and most of all unity.

I'm not sure it's players you need to convince to be honest I think it's the agents who need to understand that it's not just about wages, good luck with that one. As much as some clubs treat players like commodities agents are just as bad as I refuse to believe at this level "repeat business" isn't an agents best earner.

So as a promoted side you could say 3 games in and a win, drawn and defeat is a mixed start but don't be fooled by a few games this club is moving forward at a pace it's not seen in decades.        

Quoted from HertsGTFC

I think this confirms what we all suspected and that is that the club had a bad reputation as not being a great place to work until recently. I think as a cultural and recruitment strategy what JS talks through is excellent and despite the greed in the game its something that personally I'd like our club to be famous for.

Not being the biggest payers (we can't be) but a great place to work will attract players with good values which in sport equals good work ethic which actually can take you some distance. I'd suggest that it will also get you players with character, maybe we're in that place to a degree already with the current squad who are developing a DNA that includes honest graft, application and most of all unity.

I'm not sure it's players you need to convince to be honest I think it's the agents who need to understand that it's not just about wages, good luck with that one. As much as some clubs treat players like commodities agents are just as bad as I refuse to believe at this level "repeat business" isn't an agents best earner.

So as a promoted side you could say 3 games in and a win, drawn and defeat is a mixed start but don't be fooled by a few games this club is moving forward at a pace it's not seen in decades.        

I don't think there's any maybe about it, granted Hurst made tactical tweaks, but you have to have the players who will not only take that on board, but put it into action on the pitch.  Too many times we've had teams that would have just coasted that 2nd half, resigned to the fact that we were likely to lose the game based on the first half.  Throw the towel in, if you will.  

You can have all the ability in the world, but if you haven't got a work ethic and determination, you'll end up 12th in the Conference.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

There’s a big assumption that there’s a load of clubs that are being as badly run as we were badly run. There may be some, granted, but they are few and far between.

That doesn't matter does it? We either need to ensure a good culture to have a competitive advantage or to be on an even footing. I really don't understand how anybody can think us trying to be a really good employer is anything other than a good thing. They've said PH has a much improved budget so it's not like it's instead of offering decent wages

Quoted from Knut Anders Fosters Voles

[url]https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2022/aug/13/while-money-is-a-huge-help-it-is-culture-that-drives-success-in-football[/url]

“For any players or agents reading this, I’d suggest that when thinking about a move, you assess not only the financial side of it but also the the culture of the organisation involved. The personal values and behaviours of owners will have a massive influence on how people are viewed and treated and will be a good indication of how commoditised and valued a player will be. One way to do this is to look at who controls the money, how they got it and how they act in their other businesses.”

I reckon he’s over estimated the intelligence of a lot of players , most will just see pound signs and not give a toss where their money comes from

Quoted from grimps

I reckon he’s over estimated the intelligence of a lot of players , most will just see pound signs and not give a toss where their money comes from

You probably need to stop believing everything the media tell you about players…

It's not just intelligence, if it was then not half as many would be working for the myriad of dubious employers out there.

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

Hurst mentioned this in the interview. Told him he was free to talk to other clubs at the end of the season and he then returned to pre-season in unbelievable physical shape and worked harder than anyone else.

Wasn't aware of this, shows the character of the man, and hats off to him.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

I think this confirms what we all suspected and that is that the club had a bad reputation as not being a great place to work until recently. I think as a cultural and recruitment strategy what JS talks through is excellent and despite the greed in the game its something that personally I'd like our club to be famous for.

Not being the biggest payers (we can't be) but a great place to work will attract players with good values which in sport equals good work ethic which actually can take you some distance. I'd suggest that it will also get you players with character, maybe we're in that place to a degree already with the current squad who are developing a DNA that includes honest graft, application and most of all unity.

I'm not sure it's players you need to convince to be honest I think it's the agents who need to understand that it's not just about wages, good luck with that one. As much as some clubs treat players like commodities agents are just as bad as I refuse to believe at this level "repeat business" isn't an agents best earner.

So as a promoted side you could say 3 games in and a win, drawn and defeat is a mixed start but don't be fooled by a few games this club is moving forward at a pace it's not seen in decades.        

How we can compete is the cost of living in the area is a hell of a lot cheaper than other places .
If a player is paid slightly less playing for us than Leyton Orient for example they’ll have a lot more money left in their pockets at the end of each month living in Grimsby .
I suspect players moving here from the south will be a hell of a lot better off

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

That doesn't matter does it? We either need to ensure a good culture to have a competitive advantage or to be on an even footing. I really don't understand how anybody can think us trying to be a really good employer is anything other than a good thing. They've said PH has a much improved budget so it's not like it's instead of offering decent wages

Not saying it does. And being a good employer is absolutely a good thing. We’ve had our time of trying to find better players who want more money, better to find decent players with better attitudes who you can turn into better players.

I don't know who heard the Efete interview last week but he said other clubs made offers at the end of last season as well as Town. Said he didn't need to give it any thought as he loves playing for PH and he's never been at a club that has felt so much like a family before. He mentioned the fans in that as well. If another League 2 club had offered him £100 pw more than us do people think he'd have left? I think it's a lot less likely than it would have been 2 or 3 years ago.

Quoted from moosey_club

If you read autobiographies of players then you will often come across glaring examples of how much players are effected by the culture, atmosphere and running of clubs....and how they have pops at their agents for getting them into such places.

Money will always play a factor but lets say we pushed the boat the out and bought a marquee signing in........who signed for the cash.....but he soon realises how well he is looked after, how well they are treated, how well his family are treated etc would he be as tempted to walk away ?  Or if we make him sit in a wheelie bin of fish Dock ice to cure an injury or suggest he can get a second job to top his wages up...

Just like McAtee?

The McAtee who helped get us promoted, is making us a profit and is staying on loan for the season?

Quoted from pen penfras

Just like McAtee?

If you think money is the only motivating factor for a player wanting to play at a higher level at a club operating on level we’re aspiring to then you’re mistaken.

I’ve worked with several former professional players, all talked quite extensively about culture and environment. One even moved to Exeter, took the family, the works because what he saw when he got there was significantly better than where he was…for £50 a week more.

Interestingly, a former colleague now has an extremely influential job at a premier league team; having spent several years at Man City I remember going to see a final year YT game with him. There was a lad who was exceptional, I commented and said I bet he’s excited about being offered terms, he laughed and said ‘nah, he’s being let go, he’s an arrogant twit that pisses everyone off’. Interestingly, the steady eddy playing was offered a deal, the opinion was his attitude was excellent, he had desire and he was intelligent enough to listen and learn which would help him to improve. Needless to say, last conversation I had, he was playing in the championship whilst his arrogant mate was knocking about non league…

Always funny that Town fans forget that Hurst essentially binned off arguably our best player (now banged up) Becauee of attitude and we improved after…

People have bizarre views of footballers based on the odd one the media tours as greedy.

The reputation of GTFC was dire, it’s blatantly obvious and anyone that knows anyone in the game will support that. Culture is everything in any business, team, profession. Folk they don’t believe it is have likely never experienced an environment like it.

We were a club where just getting by, just surviving, just staying up was seen as success. Zero aspiration, zero investment (that isn’t just cash investment) and urine poor attitude towards the staff and the customers…that’s changed and counties to evolve.

Even at the top level, clubs like City May have thrown vast sums of money at it but you only have to read things and listen and watch documentaries to realise that culture and creating a relational climate is equally important. It goes hand in hand.

No confidence that clubs rotten to the core often struggle, and if they do get a sniff of success it’s often short lived.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Not saying it does. And being a good employer is absolutely a good thing. We’ve had our time of trying to find better players who want more money, better to find decent players with better attitudes who you can turn into better players.

Completely agree. Just offering more money than anybody else gets you the likes of Barry Conlon and Peter Sweeney.

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

Completely agree. Just offering more money than anybody else gets you the likes of Barry Conlon and Peter Sweeney.

I’m glad you stopped at just the two. You could have gone on for some time.

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

Completely agree. Just offering more money than anybody else gets you the likes of Barry Conlon and Peter Sweeney.

Equally, having zero value of the people you employ, offering lesser terms or making snide comments about finding other work to supplement their income means you often lose players or create a situation where recruitment, on the playing side or back room is difficult…

Quoted from MuddyWaters

I’m glad you stopped at just the two. You could have gone on for some time.

Would have just been upsetting for everyone.

Quoted from aldi_01

Equally, having zero value of the people you employ, offering lesser terms or making snide comments about finding other work to supplement their income means you often lose players or create a situation where recruitment, on the playing side or back room is difficult…

Then tell those players you desperately need them to dig in and grind out a result and see how much of a intercourse they give.....

Quoted from pen penfras

Just like McAtee?

If someone offered you 3 or 4 times what you're getting paid to do the same job at a higher level, would you turn it down?

There's a world of difference between stiffing your current club for a few hundred quid extra in the same league, and going to a club 2 divisions higher on 4x your salary - especially in such a short career.

Quoted from Lost in Lincoln

If someone offered you 3 or 4 times what you're getting paid to do the same job at a higher level, would you turn it down?

There's a world of difference between stiffing your current club for a few hundred quid extra in the same league, and going to a club 2 divisions higher on 4x your salary - especially in such a short career.

I guess his comment would work if we forget the Mcatee dropped down a level to play football, worked his bollcoks off and earned himself a job at a higher level…

But no, it was all about money…

Quoted from pen penfras

Just like McAtee?

In the midst of a sea of sensibility, up pops the village idiot.

Quoted from aldi_01

Always funny that Town fans forget that Hurst essentially binned off arguably our best player (now banged up) Becauee of attitude and we improved after…

Barlow?

Just done a quick Google search, and was shocked how many ex-town player have been banged up  

Quoted from Lost in Lincoln

Barlow?

Just done a quick Google search, and was shocked how many ex-town player have been banged up  

I was talking about Neilson, hurst copulated him off and we went on a mega run. It clearly impacted the team positively.

Quoted from aldi_01

I was talking about Neilson, hurst copulated him off and we went on a mega run. It clearly impacted the team positively.

Ah.

It's quite eye opening to see how many Town players have fallen foul of the law since they left us

Who knew Bradley Wood got a 6 year ban for breaching betting rules  

Quoted from Lost in Lincoln

Ah.

It's quite eye opening to see how many Town players have fallen foul of the law since they left us

Who knew Bradley Wood got a 6 year ban for breaching betting rules  

It's less that 12 months since one fell foul of the law while he was still here. He didn't last long.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

It's less that 12 months since one fell foul of the law while he was still here. He didn't last long.

Who?

Quoted from Lost in Lincoln

Ah.

It's quite eye opening to see how many Town players have fallen foul of the law since they left us

Who knew Bradley Wood got a 6 year ban for breaching betting rules  

Agreed, terrifying really and I’d imagine it’s not too dissimilar at other clubs of similar size.

In the clubs defence, they’ve made some good decision Re: players like this over the years but it’s often been because their hand has been forced.

Quoted from aldi_01

Agreed, terrifying really and I’d imagine it’s not too dissimilar at other clubs of similar size.

In the clubs defence, they’ve made some good decision Re: players like this over the years but it’s often been because their hand has been forced.

Indeed.  I suppose it's understandable, in some ways, if football is all you know, and you lose your career through injury or because you're not good enough.

Certain characters will be drawn to the wrong crowd - just been reading up on Neilson - $6m fraud!! awaiting extradition  

Sestanovich is the obvious example, armed robbery and he couldn't even get that right :facepalm:

Quoted from Lost in Lincoln

Who?

Ryan Sears.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Ryan Sears.

Thanks, wasn't aware of that.

Quoted from Lost in Lincoln

Indeed.  I suppose it's understandable, in some ways, if football is all you know, and you lose your career through injury or because you're not good enough.

And we have 2 great characters in coke and scannell that are very proactive in showing the youngsters within the club, that there has to be contingency to some extent. Am sure Pearson, the management team and the owners are also the same.

It would be great with this amazing new ethos we have at the club if the club could get an accreditation with investors in people (or is that what BCorp is?).

What a fascinating turn around has emerged from the darkness of previous years. Supporters are investing in the club and the owners are not only investing in the club but also making the impact felt outside of cheapside and BP. The trust goes from strength to strength with many getting the recognition they fully deserve

Quoted from WOZOFGRIMSBY

And we have 2 great characters in coke and scannell that are very proactive in showing the youngsters within the club, that there has to be contingency to some extent. Am sure Pearson, the management team and the owners are also the same.

It would be great with this amazing new ethos we have at the club if the club could get an accreditation with investors in people (or is that what BCorp is?).

What a fascinating turn around has emerged from the darkness of previous years. Supporters are investing in the club and the owners are not only investing in the club but also making the impact felt outside of cheapside and BP. The trust goes from strength to strength with many getting the recognition they fully deserve

Absolutely.

It's alright all these youngsters as big Premclubs getting 7 figure salaries before they've been anywhere near the 1st team but at our level, even if you do make a decent career, you're unlikely to earn enough to retire on.

I don5 understand why the FA don't proactively try and recruit explayers from the lower leagues to be referees. I get that it's a thankless task and many wouldn't want to- but surely there must be a small percentage who'd do it.

Quoted from grimps

How we can compete is the cost of living in the area is a hell of a lot cheaper than other places .
If a player is paid slightly less playing for us than Leyton Orient for example they’ll have a lot more money left in their pockets at the end of each month living in Grimsby .
I suspect players moving here from the south will be a hell of a lot better off

I think that's a good point if you're buying a property, renting is also a lot cheaper too. The flip side is that sometimes players from major cities don't need to re-locate to play at clubs like Leyton Orient, Stevenage, Crawley, Sutton, Salford, Walsall etc. It's swings and roundabouts I think but if you where to re-locate to Grimsby not only is ot cheaper to live you'll probably make money on a property sale.    

I think the geography thing doesn’t really exist anymore. We live in a world now where people will travel for work of the environment and atmosphere is right when you get there. I appreciate we’re in a cost of living crisis but plenty of folk in many professions drive an hour a day to work.

Facilities, atmosphere, culture, values and ethos do play a part. I know the Fenty acolytes and those from an old school view would argue different but that’s probably why we’ve been down twice in ten years and been through countless players.

Our club is changing and even the language used influences that change. The new owners use the words ‘we’ and ‘us’, that makes it sound a collective, like we’re all part of it and influence it. Completely different from the previous regime.

There’s masses of research that demonstrates and evidences the importance of culture and environment. People need to open their eyes to the fact that footballers aren’t all about the money. No doubt, much like every profession there’s a few that are but in truth, as I said earlier, where would you rather play, GTFC now, or GTFC then…

I think anyone who says the culture of a workplace doesn’t play a big part in wanting to be there is either well looked after in their workplace without realising it, or doesn’t have a clue.
I have an example extremely close to home. A few months ago I binned off a job that was paying me very well (for my age) because the management didn’t give a toss, offered no support and were never prepared to dig in and help staff out. We were just a number. I took a £10,000 pay cut to be at a job where I’m much happier and far worse off financially. But the job gives me more satisfaction, my manager always has my back, and my colleagues are brilliant.
It’s not all about the money in any walk of life.

Quoted from TheultimateMariner

I think anyone who says the culture of a workplace doesn’t play a big part in wanting to be there is either well looked after in their workplace without realising it, or doesn’t have a clue.
I have an example extremely close to home. A few months ago I binned off a job that was paying me very well (for my age) because the management didn’t give a toss, offered no support and were never prepared to dig in and help staff out. We were just a number. I took a £10,000 pay cut to be at a job where I’m much happier and far worse off financially. But the job gives me more satisfaction, my manager always has my back, and my colleagues are brilliant.
It’s not all about the money in any walk of life.

I did exactly this…like I’ve said, not all footballers, like not all workers are obsessed with money.

Quoted from TheultimateMariner

I think anyone who says the culture of a workplace doesn’t play a big part in wanting to be there is either well looked after in their workplace without realising it, or doesn’t have a clue.
I have an example extremely close to home. A few months ago I binned off a job that was paying me very well (for my age) because the management didn’t give a toss, offered no support and were never prepared to dig in and help staff out. We were just a number. I took a £10,000 pay cut to be at a job where I’m much happier and far worse off financially. But the job gives me more satisfaction, my manager always has my back, and my colleagues are brilliant.
It’s not all about the money in any walk of life.

I totally get this sentiment, and agree. But given a thought on it, this is where I see a LOT of premier league young/fringe players

You are earning around £10k a week working in an office but not earning any bonus’ due to not being allowed to work on sales. You have the opportunity to go and work in an office 200 miles away from where you are now currently. you work a 4 day week and there is the outside possibility of having to work a half day every now and again for a bit more money. Your office is pristine and has all the mod cons, great facilities and is close to where you live. The other company hasn’t had a lot of money available but gives you the chance to ‘hone’ your skills and work with a fresh set of people.

What do you do?

Quoted from WOZOFGRIMSBY

I totally get this sentiment, and agree. But given a thought on it, this is where I see a LOT of premier league young/fringe players

You are earning around £10k a week working in an office but not earning any bonus’ due to not being allowed to work on sales. You have the opportunity to go and work in an office 200 miles away from where you are now currently. you work a 4 day week and there is the outside possibility of having to work a half day every now and again for a bit more money. Your office is pristine and has all the mod cons, great facilities and is close to where you live. The other company hasn’t had a lot of money available but gives you the chance to ‘hone’ your skills and work with a fresh set of people.

What do you do?

If I was on 10K a week, I would stay where I was.

Quoted from 123614

If I was on 10K a week, I would stay where I was.

And that is exactly why the majority of young players at higher levels, won’t ever make that next step up. Why would they care when they can sit on their arses for £500k a year (without sponsorship/endorsements) and it’s no major loss to their clubs

Quoted from WOZOFGRIMSBY

And that is exactly why the majority of young players at higher levels, won’t ever make that next step up. Why would they care when they can sit on their arses for £500k a year (without sponsorship/endorsements) and it’s no major loss to their clubs

I’d argue it’s not a loss to the game either…