Playing out from the back

I know sport evolves and hoofball is unattractive, but am I the only person that can feel their blood pressure going up watching league 2 defenders playing out from the back? It's nerve wracking seeing Arsenal or Chelsea do it but at least I can laugh when it goes wrong. Seeing town attempt it makes me feel sick! First two goals last night both came from playing out and were easily avoidable.
I like Waterfall, he's a good league 2 defender but he's not Virgil an Dijk and I wouldn't think any worse of him if he stuck it in row Z every now and again

However we played we beat one of the best sides in their league 3-1 on their own patch, and could easily have scored several more.

Playing out from the back means you retain possession more often, whilst running the risk of conceding possession in a dangerous position. Provided the benefits of that strategy outweigh the risks over the course of a season, I don't see an issue.

Football has become very much about keeping the ball. Minimising the opportunity of the opposition having it. This is where the whole playing out from the back thing comes from.

The risks are abundantly clear for both sides and thus, assuming the attacking side are willing to put pressure on, the gamble for them can or may pay off. Similarly, whilst there were occasions last night that got blood pressure going, we managed to hold on to the ball and play our way out. Had we just taken a traditional goal kick the only advantage would’ve been we’d have been in a position perhaps, to defend.

Few forwards or teams with a goal kick do much with it.

It’s modern football and it acruslly does add a little more excitement I guess.

Quoted from buckstown

I know sport evolves and hoofball is unattractive, but am I the only person that can feel their blood pressure going up watching league 2 defenders playing out from the back? It's nerve wracking seeing Arsenal or Chelsea do it but at least I can laugh when it goes wrong. Seeing town attempt it makes me feel sick! First two goals last night both came from playing out and were easily avoidable.
I like Waterfall, he's a good league 2 defender but he's not Virgil an Dijk and I wouldn't think any worse of him if he stuck it in row Z every now and again

I agree in theory, but with the team we had out last night, lumping balls up front would have ended up with it coming back to us double quick and putting ourselves under constant pressure. Horses for courses. It’s a high risk strategy for sure, sometimes it will work, sometimes it won’t and we will look silly (even Buckley’s teams could look terrible when they had an off day), but it is consistent with the way Holloway wants to play.  

It’s gonna be a roller coaster. I am looking forward to riding it 🙂

Remember hoofball, Macca's aimless punts upfield with both teams bunched up on the right or left side of the halfway line.

Keeping players back to receive the ball means that the opposition push right up leaving more space to exploit around the pitch.

Playing out from the back is ok . so long as you dont keep giving it to players that have got someone on them  its just asking for trouble. as we found out last night

If Rose, Morton, Williams, Tilley and Owura are in space then fine. If Waterfall only has Ludvig or Pollock to pass to then things can go wrong. Good communication is key. Waterfall noticeably was pointing to his ear last night! Rolling the ball out to a full back poses fewer risks perhaps.

Playing out from the back is alright as long as it does not mean playing backwards. How often do we see that happen? Short ball from GK to defender, a few paces, short ball to midfield or defender who is closed down, short ball sideways or back, closed down  .............  wallop!!

You need a player in midfield who can run with the ball and beat at least one defender, draw others and create space behind them for a pass to forwards and runners.. Joe Waters was excellent at that.

I can see the benefits of it but we’ll 100% concede goals like last nights again. We all know Macca is the best shot stopper in this league but his distribution is most certainly the weakest part of his game so it makes me extremely nervous. Idehen in particular looked so suspect with it when he came on.

What it did allow yesterday though was bringing our wingers into the game much more regularly and both Tilley & Edwards thrived off it. Lumping up to them doesn’t help them, playing out from the back allows them to pick the ball up with their feet and drive at the opposition more regularly.

Quoted from mimma

Remember hoofball, Macca's aimless punts upfield with both teams bunched up on the right or left side of the halfway line.

Keeping players back to receive the ball means that the opposition push right up leaving more space to exploit around the pitch.

Which is great assuming the back line have the skill to retain possession and then distribute the ball well and safely exploiting the gap the opposition leave by pushing up. That said its dangerous if not suicidal if the back line and keeper intercourse it up (a long hoof out by the keeper might give the ball to the opposition but at least its around halfway!)

Arsenal are shocking at it . They gave the ball away constantly against Liverpool in their own third , they often didn’t even get out their own box and gave away corners .

I'm all for it myself. Sick to death of watching League 2 games where the ball is in the air constantly, going from one end to the other bypassing midfield. Yes, there will be mistakes; it's inevitable with players at this level, but even Prem players get it wrong from time to time.

Just launching the ball aerially plays into the strengths of your average League 2 defender, but playing around them, and getting them facing their own goal is the last thing they want to be doing. If you have skilful and fast forwards constantly probing when we have the ball and closing down their defence quickly when they have the ball, they will make mistakes.

Ollie got it spot on last night and we could have had 5 or 6 with better finishing. We will concede, but hopefully we will outscore the opposition. Ollie has said many times that is what he wants to do. We will also get better at it with time and practice.

I'd rather we lost going for the win, than have a manager like Hurst who had a must not lose attitude, which led to many draws and quite a few 0-1 defeats.

Quoted from ginnywings

I'm all for it myself. Sick to death of watching League 2 games where the ball is in the air constantly, going from one end to the other bypassing midfield. Yes, there will be mistakes; it's inevitable with players at this level, but even Prem players get it wrong from time to time.

Just launching the ball aerially plays into the strengths of your average League 2 defender, but playing around them, and getting them facing their own goal is the last thing they want to be doing. If you have skilful and fast forwards constantly probing when we have the ball and closing down their defence quickly when they have the ball, they will make mistakes.

Ollie got it spot on last night and we could have had 5 or 6 with better finishing. We will concede, but hopefully we will outscore the opposition. Ollie has said many times that is what he wants to do. We will also get better at it with time and practice.

I'd rather we lost going for the win, than have a manager like Hurst who had a must not lose attitude, which led to many draws and quite a few 0-1 defeats.

If I could nominate this for post of the week please!

It’s pretty simple really . You don’t give it to players who can’t do it !!

Thing is Arsenal against Liverpool, who at the moment are the best at closing defenders down. So if the defenders at our level may be suspect then surely forwards are not the best at closing down. Personally I love it, let’s at least have a go at playing Football as it should be, on the deck and not in the air, also by playing this style there is always the hope that more of the premiership/ championship teams will be happy to send us their up and coming players in the future.

It is clearly the managers wish, the players seem to try and follow the orders even when its not really a good option, dont try and force it , use it as and when its properly set, giving the ball to a player who is isolated, not in good position to receive  and under a press is asking for a disaster.
With practice and a bit of automony for the players then it can be very effective, our newly adopted long diagonal switch ball is set up very well with playing out from the back but same with anything, overuse it and the opposition will be ready for it and it then becomes your weakness.

Remember too that in a few weeks many pitches could be in quIte a poor state which will lead to more mistakes when playing out.
Generally though I think it’s good to see, and as a previous poster mentions does tend to leave more space in midfield which (for once) we have the pace to exploit  

Quoted from ginnywings

I'm all for it myself. Sick to death of watching League 2 games where the ball is in the air constantly, going from one end to the other bypassing midfield. Yes, there will be mistakes; it's inevitable with players at this level, but even Prem players get it wrong from time to time.

Just launching the ball aerially plays into the strengths of your average League 2 defender, but playing around them, and getting them facing their own goal is the last thing they want to be doing. If you have skilful and fast forwards constantly probing when we have the ball and closing down their defence quickly when they have the ball, they will make mistakes.

Ollie got it spot on last night and we could have had 5 or 6 with better finishing. We will concede, but hopefully we will outscore the opposition. Ollie has said many times that is what he wants to do. We will also get better at it with time and practice.

I'd rather we lost going for the win, than have a manager like Hurst who had a must not lose attitude, which led to many draws and quite a few 0-1 defeats.

The problem with Hurst was that we might get 1-0 up and then start to play for a draw.

I’m with you on liking football played from the back but like I said earlier, it has to work or it is worse than a John Beck Route One master class. The reason L2 managers so often choose long ball is simple - playing out from the back is easy to stop unless it is a very good side doing it and even then it can be negated by a determined opposition..

So they do a Hurst, play us percentage game.

Do it when we can as if not it usually results in giving the ball away and getting pinned back deep.

Though it was scary at 2 - 1 up 90 odd minutes in last night it wasn’t the wrong thing to do and there was more than occasion last night when Town did it reasonably well and looked like they ultimately will be comfortable with it.

Quoted from mimma

Remember hoofball, Macca's aimless punts upfield with both teams bunched up on the right or left side of the halfway line.

Keeping players back to receive the ball means that the opposition push right up leaving more space to exploit around the pitch.

Problem with that is they had two players pushed up near Waterfall and one of them robbed him and it led to their goal.

Macca did something similar in the last few minutes when he took what I call as daft goal kicks when it doesn't have to go out of the penalty area and the young centre half who came on and nearly got caught in possession.

Quoted from buckstown

I know sport evolves and hoofball is unattractive, but am I the only person that can feel their blood pressure going up watching league 2 defenders playing out from the back? It's nerve wracking seeing Arsenal or Chelsea do it but at least I can laugh when it goes wrong. Seeing town attempt it makes me feel sick! First two goals last night both came from playing out and were easily avoidable.
I like Waterfall, he's a good league 2 defender but he's not Virgil an Dijk and I wouldn't think any worse of him if he stuck it in row Z every now and again

I understand people's concerns but I'd rather us make a mistake every few games and concede a goal alongside holding the ball and possession most of the time over a long hoof and giving possession away 90% of the time.

Quoted from arryarryarry

Problem with that is they had two players pushed up near Waterfall and one of them robbed him and it led to their goal.

Macca did something similar in the last few minutes when he took what I call as daft goal kicks when it doesn't have to go out of the penalty area and the young centre half who came on and nearly got caught in possession.

Yep, he put Idehen in a similar position, but he had a bit more time. Idehen seems very happy to play that game, but his passing isn't quite up to scratch just yet. If he gets some confidence and improves that part of his game, I think we've got another CB going places.

Quoted from lukeo

I understand people's concerns but I'd rather us make a mistake every few games and concede a goal alongside holding the ball and possession most of the time over a long hoof and giving possession away 90% of the time.

We had possession stats of about 39% on Tuesday didnt we? so it didn't help us all that much on that front.

Personally I am in favour of it but only up to a point, no need to give it to waterfall in that situation and he wasn't concentrating as well, luckily we got away with it by scoring again.

You can not play it out from the back every time. You have got to vary it. Which is what I think McKeown was doing on Tuesday, he just did not use the right option sometimes.

There are some good tactics videos on youtube about Bielsa and Leeds and how/why they play out from the back.  Drawing players and creating space for rapid movements is one key reason.

I've never really understood the long punt - you've got a 50/50 chance of retaining possesion at best.  

Surely a pro footballer at any level  of the league should be able to retain possession and pass in tight spaces??  

Hmm... of course, I do also get the blood-pressure rising when I see Grimsby do it - you just know something will probaboy go wrong.

Quoted from Yossarian

There are some good tactics videos on youtube about Bielsa and Leeds and how/why they play out from the back.  Drawing players and creating space for rapid movements is one key reason.

I've never really understood the long punt - you've got a 50/50 chance of retaining possesion at best.  

Surely a pro footballer at any level  of the league should be able to retain possession and pass in tight spaces??  

Hmm... of course, I do also get the blood-pressure rising when I see Grimsby do it - you just know something will probaboy go wrong.

The problem is on many occasions you can pass from the back but when under pressure it goes backwards and ends up in a hoof anyway.

More we do it, the better we will get at it.  Because we now have pace up front, the opposition will be wary of leaving space behind, if they sit deep and press us High up,  it will leave us with space to play somewhere.

Ollie is a very experienced manager, and will know our limitations, and so will be drilling them on how to play from the back, and when not to. It just takes time to get use to it.

When Hanson plays, we have the added bonus of being able to lump it and it sticking. We then have different options to use.

I don’t think LUMPING it to Hanson is much use. A long pass to Hanson maybe, but if he has to keep chasing balls he might break again/not have the pace to get there first.