Green

Looking at Green today and in some past performances recently I don't think he his anywhere good enough to be featuring much more this season. I know he's under contract for another year but I can see him being paid off. Unfortunately his best years have gone. I remember seeing him for Mansfield against us in the conforence and he looked superb that day shame we didn't sign him a couple of seasons before.

There’s always a scapegoat on here

Quoted from carrot top

There’s always a scapegoat on here

There is, but his performance today was reminiscent of a second rate Lenny.

He probably isn’t good enough for League Two but he’s devoid of confidence and is probably playing a few levels below even his average performance level currently. He wasn’t likely to play as long as he did today without the injury to Hanson so it seems a bit unfair to pick on him. He wasn’t the only one below par today.

I thought he was absolutely hopeless today, had plenty of time to make a difference but didn't take it I'm afraid

I thought he was OK in the first half (barring one fluffed pass which could have set up a chance), but as anonymous as the rest of them in the second half. It does seem to me that he doesn't get involved in our best bits of play when they come, but I'm not sure how much of that is because the other players don't pass to him if they can avoid it! I can't imagine him seeing out his contract unless we can't come to an agreement with him at the end of the season.

Our entire front line looked hopeless in front of goal today....trouble is he looked hopeless in just about every other area as well.

He looks like another in a long line of strikers we have had who just don't look like they are ever going to score. We were saying on Tues night that he wasn't getting into goalscoring positions, despite us being well on top against a poor Newport. Today he was just anonymous.

We need much better because if Hanson isn't playing, we have not much else as back up. Green, Cook, Cardwell and Rose are all average at best.

Green isn't a scapegoat, he just isn't good enough. I'm sure he'll be on his way in the summer, hopefully alongside Waterfall and Ohman, who both showed how poor they are today.

I am sure he didn't play that badly on purpose. I just think he is a bit past his best. Sorry to see it. He tries but it was like running through treacle.

I thought the Northampton striker was good, young skinny lad was very fast.

Quoted from 28195

I thought the Northampton striker was good, young skinny lad was very fast.

On loan from West Brom, looked really useful.

Quoted from 28195

I thought the Northampton striker was good, young skinny lad was very fast.

Think he's on loan from West Brom. I expect there are plenty of young 'uns out there like him we could get on loan next season. He was a right pest and took his goals very well.

Lost count of the amount of times our best young passers (Benson, Tilley, Clifton) refusing to pass to him, even when he was the easy pass or obvious choice. Very reminiscent of Ogbu’s last few games for us.

When your own team mates have lost all confidence in your ability not to member things up, you’re finished here.

Got him 3 years to late
Just not good enough now

They where all rubbish today leave Green alone he’s just massively lacking confidence which is impacting his game

Quoted from gtfc82

Green isn't a scapegoat, he just isn't good enough. I'm sure he'll be on his way in the summer, hopefully alongside Waterfall and Ohman, who both showed how poor they are today.

All about opinions but other than the stupid back pass I thought Waterfall was excellent today especially given both full backs had poor games and not sure why Ohman was taken off at half time.

Clarke had his worst game for us, Tilley wanders all over the shop and yet we probably created, or were presented with, more clear goal scoring opportunities than we had against Newport. Grandin should have scored at least two in the first half, or created one and scored one, and Clarke should have scored two second half. Funny game football but that said they were so much better than us today they deserved their victory.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

They where all rubbish today leave Green alone he’s just massively lacking confidence which is impacting his game

Can’t agree more, confidence not there, bang out of order to slag off players like this.

Quoted from Lincoln Mariner 56

All about opinions but other than the stupid back pass I thought Waterfall was excellent today especially given both full backs had poor games and not sure why Ohman was taken off at half time.

Clarke had his worst game for us, Tilley wanders all over the shop and yet we probably created, or were presented with, more clear goal scoring opportunities than we had against Newport. Grandin should have scored at least two in the first half, or created one and scored one, and Clarke should have scored two second half. Funny game football but that said they were so much better than us today they deserved their victory.

Nail on head

Quoted from Lincoln Mariner 56

All about opinions but other than the stupid back pass I thought Waterfall was excellent today especially given both full backs had poor games and not sure why Ohman was taken off at half time.

Quoted from Lincoln Mariner 56

All about opinions but other than the stupid back pass I thought Waterfall was excellent today especially given both full backs had poor games and not sure why Ohman was taken off at half time.

Agree about Waterfall and I think Ohman was taken off because he was on a unjust yellow and he is always a sending off in waiting.

What has happened since Chelsea ?

Quoted from TAGG

Got him 3 years to late
Just not good enough now

Just like  Peacock , Proudlock , Warhurst, Webb .....

Don’t rate Waterfall but it’s all about opinions.

Perhaps Green isn’t good enough but today it was a disaster, from selection to result...

Gues you just have to move on...

I thought Öhman looked off the pace today. Hendrie played well but Glennon struggled.

When Hanson went off we were starting to knock it about quite well on the floor. I said at the time we should have moved Clarke central and bring Vernam on.

As for Grandin, I can forgive him for the first shot, the second shot was a great save but for the third one, he had to square it to Hendrie.

Their defender fouled Tilley 3 times towards the end of the first half yet nothing was given.

Will any of our current Center halves be good enough next season?

We are leaking so many goals at the min, before Xmas goals where the problem and not the defence now it’s switched

Quoted from aldi_01

Don’t rate Waterfall but it’s all about opinions.

Perhaps Green isn’t good enough but today it was a disaster, from selection to result...

Gues you just have to move on...

Waterfall is hands down one of the best centre backs in the league 2....yes he had a mare with that pass today, but he seldom loses out in the air, is always getting a foot round his man, and holds the line very well. He’s next seasons captain for me.

Quoted from scott_gtfc_89

Will any of our current Center halves be good enough next season?

We are leaking so many goals at the min, before Xmas goals where the problem and not the defence now it’s switched

Before Xmas we played a different style of football!!...we haven't got Hess protecting the back line and I honestly think we miss Davis, for as slow as he is he is our best ball playing centre half.
Waterfall was excellent second half up until his faux Pas of a back pass..
As for Green, his has opportunities to impress Ollie now and fell short every time, his first touch is woeful and just doesn't try hard enough for me, which was highlighted today when he gave up running for the ball and should've challenged the keeper for the ball a la Hanson did 2 week's ago .

Quoted from scott_gtfc_89

Will any of our current Center halves be good enough next season?

We are leaking so many goals at the min, before Xmas goals where the problem and not the defence now it’s switched

It’s the tactics we are playing that are leaking the goals not the individual defenders, if you’re passing it about at the back and across your own box like we are to draw opposition forwards, you need pace upfront for when we smack it over the top. Clarke and Tilley haven’t got the pace of Vernam and Wright. Playing against their wing back formation we needed pace down our wings today, we didn’t have it and we paid the price.

Quoted from PoutonStepover

Waterfall is hands down one of the best centre backs in the league 2....yes he had a mare with that pass today, but he seldom loses out in the air, is always getting a foot round his man, and holds the line very well. He’s next seasons captain for me.

Surely you must be having a laugh?!!! As my mate said, he spends more time on his backside than on his feet and frequently does brainless rash challenges!!

Quoted from gtfc82

Surely you must be having a laugh?!!! As my mate said, he spends more time on his backside than on his feet and frequently does brainless rash challenges!!

Have to disagree with this, waterfall has been pretty darn reliable, very seldom loses out in the and has actually played some lovely balls out from defence, definitely good enough for league 2....plus he frightens me, would not want to meet him in a dark alley!!  

Davis (still) isn't slow.

I think Waterfall is actually a decent defender. Catastrophic error today aside, of course.

Today clarified my opinion on Green and Ohman. Together with Cardwell, they shouldn’t be part of our squad going forward, give some of the kids a try instead, we’re safe and now have no chance of the playoffs so try the players of the future.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

There is, but his performance today was reminiscent of a second rate Lenny.

Bloody hell. I thought it was Grandin missing sitters today.

Quoted from carrot top

There’s always a scapegoat on here

Not really. He's an athlete, and he gives his all. But he's gone. He's 33. It comes to us all, it clearly isn't a lack of any effort but he's gone. He'll be paid off and quite honestly, after being a bit part player for Salford in the Conference at 32, barely playing and very few goals at National league level, he wasn't going to improve at his age. He was on a downward spiral, as comes to any one of us who have played the game at any level. Bad signing by a clown of a manger but Green absolutely has not short changed anyone, he started well. Gives his absolute all and is deserving of the shirt but he hasn't got that pace cutting inside the left we saw against us when he was at Mansfield. Sad, but not a lack of effort on his part.

We might as well only play with ten men on the pitch as far as I'm concerned, at least then he's not goiving away stupid freekick everytime the ball goes near him.

Very poor signing. He’s probably one of our top earners too and under contract next season too. Need to ship him out along with Cardwell. Was a very good player in the past but that’s well gone.

Quoted from PoutonStepover

Waterfall is hands down one of the best centre backs in the league 2....yes he had a mare with that pass today, but he seldom loses out in the air, is always getting a foot round his man, and holds the line very well. He’s next seasons captain for me.

Waterfall is bang average at this level how he ended up in a League 1 squad is beyond me.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Waterfall is bang average at this level how he ended up in a League 1 squad is beyond me.

Better than Ohman but probably not Davis or Pollock.

I’d agree with the comments about Waterfall. I just don’t see how he’s lauded by some. I’m sure he’s a model pro and gives his all but he’s average for me.

It’s all about opinions but he isn’t for me.

As for Green, I think it’s clear we have him 5 years too late but I don’t think he’s the worst. He’s had his moments but today it’s hard to find any positives...

The positive news about Green is that he was not on for 90 mins.  He can improve the team by not playing.  We would have been better off today with only 10; men.  He contributed nothing, won nothing and wasted the passes he did receive.  He is consistently poor.

Harsh but true sadly.  Tough decisions need to be made for next season.  Green needs to be encouraged to leave with his contract paid off if necessary.

Without Waterfall today i think we would maybe have not given away 1 soft goal.... but actually conceded a few more, mistake aside he did an awful lot of the dirty defending in keeping Oliver under wraps and winning the headers when defending their No.1 route of set pieces.

As a unit we havn't been defending well, sitting in the upper you can see there is either alot of schoolboy defending going on...ie players chasing the ball around rather than picking up players ...or...we have changed to a more zonal system. Plenty of times today we had players closing down the player on the ball while they had spare players in and around our box.

Quoted from 28195

Can’t agree more, confidence not there, bang out of order to slag off players like this.

The problem is he had been poor in every game he has played in recently.

Quoted from promotion plaice

Agree about Waterfall and I think Ohman was taken off because he was on a unjust yellow and he is always a sending off in waiting.

I think he was taken off because he was having a crap game and definitely at fault with one of the goals.

Quoted from arryarryarry

The problem is he had been poor in every game he has played in recently.

Exactly the point and it’s not slagging him off it’s posting that he is playing very poorly which he is. Personally I think he is going through the motions and puts in token challenges, half hearted runs (as witnessed late on when he let their keeper get their first) and is totally incapable of holding the ball up, he makes Jamile Matt look like Didier Drogba.

That might be me slagging him off but he’s a professional footballer and it comes with the territory. He has scored two memorable goals this season and for that thanks Matt but I think next year you will be playing in the Conference North, not personal but your career in the football league is over. Happens to everyone so hope you enjoyed your career and I wish you all the best for your future. As others have said 5 years too late I’m afraid

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Better than Ohman but probably not Davis or Pollock.

Agree

I'm guessing if Green is released he will probably end up down the road at the Linden Club, on the bench for Cleethorpes Town because with his current form that is all he is capable of!

I'm sure Ollie has his little book, with a page for each player, with plenty of choice words or comments, good or bad, under each one.

After today's no show, I'm guessing his red pen has run out.

Clear to see Green wasn't good enough in preseason. Imo
But what do I know. I don't think he's anywhere near good enough for conference north either. No where near. When he's up against players like a young Liam Hearn. No chance. Master stroke getting a 2year contract at this level
Not convinced by Waterfall either. I imagine he'll stay due to lack of funds. Sounds like it will be a busy summer
Fact is we need better next season if we want to improve. We'll need a replacement for Hanson as well by the looks of it.

Green is utterly ineffectual, no better than  cardwell now unfortunately, tries but that is it. Awful control, terrible passing, not strong or quick, weak in the air, gives way too many free kicks away. Certainly not capable of playing league football. A total waste of space whenever he comes on. Must certainly be paid off in the summer as he is now cringingly bad.

Waterfall had another member up similar to a couple of weeks ago but was strong other than that. Won lots in the air against their giant's and had a couple of runs into midfield too. Would have been more joy for them up front if not for him. All about opinions but for me he is our best centre back. Pollock will become better than him in time though.

Ohman was badly exposed for their second goal and if the rumours are true that he is one of the highest earners that's not Good, he is another that will need paying off in the summer.

We need more pace and passing ability in central defence the way Ollie wants to play. A higher line needs pace. We have CBs who are strong in the air to defend high balls Macca won't claim but are slow and need to drop deep. They are also not comfortable with knocking it about at the back and I think they are being asked to do too much of That, hence we've dropped a couple of clangers recently and hit away with a few more. We need 2 new quicker CBs, so we have one speedier player in central defence most games. That means 2 of our current 4 need to go. Davis is out of contract so I'd expect him to be one, some feel he is quicker and more comfortable on the ball than the others but not sure about that myself. Pollock is an asset with being so young, he actually has value, so we'd be crazy to not offer him a contract. Waterfall is the current best of the 4 for me and certainly better than ohman so I would imagine we will be losing the big Swede in the summer. Definitely not a bad player but not quite what Ollie will need there I think.

We know the high standards that we need to reach next season,  assuming we are serious promotion
contenders.

Crewe, Swindon, Exeter and even Northampton have been much better than we have.  This has been on our own patch.  All these teams have counter-attacked at pace, in considerable numbers.
(qualities we currently lack). They clearly get results from this approach, and have the players to do it.

Any good team should win most of their home games.  This leaves the away games to pickup the crucial points to get promoted.

I know Hanson went off injured,  But we did not have an effective replacement.  We need a plan B and plan C  next season for having other goal-scorers.  Other teams have injuries to manage.

Fitness:  it is not that we are not fit enough.  However,  I had the perception yesterday that their players had more running in them.  They had played last Tuesday as well as us.  2 away games for them.

When Exeter won here this season they had 4/5 players breaking at pace in the last minute.  All this from our corner,  They had already won the game.   (Northampton were at their most dangerous breaking when we lost possession in the final third).

I would be interested to see different views on this.

Some drivel on this thread. Thought he did okay first half when he came on. Did intercourse all in the 2nd like everyone else. He looks short of confidence and out of form but he's not dreadful and we wouldn't have been better with 10 men on the pitch. There's a difference between being critical and just performing a total hatchet job. Could tell people around me were waiting for any error from him to jump on from the second he came on. Clear he's the current one on the scapegoat list.

It's years since we've been a quick side as Hurst placed so much emphasis on keeping shape it wasn't a necessary factor for him. Slade didnt ephasise it either, or jolley. We always seem so slow moving forward compared to many opposition teams. It's gradually something that will change under Ollie I hope. More pace at the back and at the front.

Green is not good enough! Like a previous poster said, he played a bit part in the Salford promotion side, was released because he wasn't deemed good enough by them for League 2 football and MJ signed him on a 2 year contract. I'm 100% sure he will be released in May. If not then I would question Ollie's judgement on the quality of players he needs to get promoted.

Quoted from toontown

It's years since we've been a quick side as Hurst placed so much emphasis on keeping[/b] shape[b] it wasn't a necessary factor for him. Slade didnt ephasise it either, or jolley. We always seem so slow moving forward compared to many opposition teams. It's gradually something that will change under Ollie I hope. More pace at the back and at the front.

us

Quoted from toontown

It's years since we've been a quick side as Hurst placed so much emphasis on keeping shape it wasn't a necessary factor for him. Slade didnt ephasise it either, or jolley. We always seem so slow moving forward compared to many opposition teams. It's gradually something that will change under Ollie I hope. More pace at the back and at the front.

Whatever the criticism of PH though...we won more than we lost and whilst it may have been slow, we were toght at the back....

Can’t really talk about Slade and Jolley because they seemingly had zero idea about anything...

Quoted from aldi_01

Whatever the criticism of PH though...we won more than we lost and whilst it may have been slow, we were toght at the back....

Can’t really talk about Slade and Jolley because they seemingly had zero idea about anything...

At what level was that though ?  

Quoted from rancido

Green is not good enough! Like a previous poster said, he played a bit part in the Salford promotion side, was released because he wasn't deemed good enough by them for League 2 football and MJ signed him on a 2 year contract. I'm 100% sure he will be released in May. If not then I would question Ollie's judgement on the quality of players he needs to get promoted.

Bound to score tomorrow then, after all this

Never quite understood the need for fans to hammer a player of there own team who is clearly struggling at the moment. I'm sure it will do him the world of good tomorrow night when we may need him.

Quoted from aldi_01

Whatever the criticism of PH though...we won more than we lost and whilst it may have been slow, we were toght at the back....

Can’t really talk about Slade and Jolley because they seemingly had zero idea about anything...

Cor blimey! He should win a lot more than he lost in the Conference with his budget! His problem was not that, it was winning the most important games. He was so obsessed with us shape that he couldn’t change things during a game when us shape was not doing the job.

Quoted from TwoLeftFeet

Never quite understood the need for fans to hammer a player of there own team who is clearly struggling at the moment. I'm sure it will do him the world of good tomorrow night when we may need him.

So we are allowed to hammer the Chairman when the club is struggling, hammer the board when wrong decisions are made, hammer the manager when the team don't perform but not a player when he is not performing and doing what he is paid to do.

I really hate hammering players, especially at the game itself.  But I could completely understand anyone moaning at Green on Saturday through pure frustration.

I don't rate him as a player, I think he's pretty woeful in all honesty but each time he comes on you've got to give him the backing.  Yet the problem is he does nothing to help himself.  I've seen a lot of posts saying he tried and you can't fault his effort, I'm sorry but I think you can fault it.  He doesn't appear, in my eyes, to really bust anything like a gut.  It may well be confidence but he's mastered the art of both hiding behind defenders rather than showing for the ball and then also appearing that he will challenge for aerial balls, but not actually challenging for them.

Few posts have also pointed out that he's as useless as Cardwell, or along those lines.  But at least with Cardwell he'll put a shift in, regardless of how effective it is.  Even when chasing down the 'keeper, Green appears half arsed.  I'm actually surprised Holloway has persisted with him.

I hope the lad proves us wrong in the remaining games of the season and then goes onto have a storming season next year, but I just can't see it.  I'm afraid he looks destined to go down as a truly terrible signing, one that I can't even see us managing to offload in the summer.

The signing is a bit reminiscent of Brodie’s. Based on past reputation without properly thinking through what he is like now.

He is a square peg when he replaces Hanson, he needs to play alongside someone like Hanson in a 4-4-2 but that is never going to happen and anyway I doubt he can consistently produce the goods. But I don’t agree that he doesn’t try, he just cannot do what the job demands. Ball played in the air - outjumped. Ball to feet - bounces off him. He needs to be the one running  on to the flick-ons and that’s why he seems to disappear behind the defenders, but we have others now who do that better.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

The signing is a bit reminiscent of Brodie’s. Based on past reputation without properly thinking through what he is like now.

He is a square peg when he replaces Hanson, he needs to play alongside someone like Hanson in a 4-4-2 but that is never going to happen and anyway I doubt he can consistently produce the goods. But I don’t agree that he doesn’t try, he just cannot do what the job demands. Ball played in the air - outjumped. Ball to feet - bounces off him. He needs to be the one running  on to the flick-ons and that’s why he seems to disappear behind the defenders, but we have others now who do that better.

This. He did bust a gut early in the season but that has faded in recent weeks as his confidence is gone but he isn't lazy. CANNOT play the target man role tho. As stated he needs to be paired with a target man so he is either falling back from the front to receive the ball in space in front of the back 4 and turning or running onto flicks. When he had played that position he has been mediocre, but better than out wide or as a target man where be varies from poor to utterly dreadful as on Saturday. But he is never going to be played in the position that suits him as it doesn't suit our squad and he is only mediocre there now anyway. His one attribute is a powerful shot. We would be better with Clarke in the middle with vernam and Wright wide as against Exeter and keeping it on the deck.

Definitely not a wage stealing type of the sort we had back in the day we were relegated, just too old, and in the wrong team to play to what little strengths he has to offer at this level. I'm sure he will take a pay off in the summer to leave as he clearly isn't enjoying being here.

Quoted from toontown

It's years since we've been a quick side as Hurst placed so much emphasis on keeping shape it wasn't a necessary factor for him. Slade didnt ephasise it either, or jolley. We always seem so slow moving forward compared to many opposition teams. It's gradually something that will change under Ollie I hope. More pace at the back and at the front.

Yeah bloody awful on the break the last few seasons.  That's lack of confidence.  if we break from an opposition corner, our front line (Pre IH) would stop and wait for everyone to join them, hence allowing the defence to get back.

Quoted from toontown

This. He did bust a gut early in the season but that has faded in recent weeks as his confidence is gone but he isn't lazy. CANNOT play the target man role tho. As stated he needs to be paired with a target man so he is either falling back from the front to receive the ball in space in front of the back 4 and turning or running onto flicks. When he had played that position he has been mediocre, but better than out wide or as a target man where be varies from poor to utterly dreadful as on Saturday. But he is never going to be played in the position that suits him as it doesn't suit our squad and he is only mediocre there now anyway. His one attribute is a powerful shot. We would be better with Clarke in the middle with vernam and Wright wide as against Exeter and keeping it on the deck.

Definitely not a wage stealing type of the sort we had back in the day we were relegated, just too old, and in the wrong team to play to what little strengths he has to offer at this level. I'm sure he will take a pay off in the summer to leave as he clearly isn't enjoying being here.

Just like he did at Chelsea. I have to admit, despite his performances of late, I like Green.  I wish it would click for him a little more.  Recently 'head down' Vernam did a jinxing run and had a shot.  Green was free 6 yards out. Imagine how frustrating that must be for the bloke. I can't see him hanging around either but wish him well.

Well in the end it won't be the first or last time a player joins the club and doesn't quite produce on the pitch. I don't think things have really worked out for him this season and he's been kept to mostly appearances off the bench recently. I don't really think the system we play works for him and he's often being used like for like for Hanson recently when he's not a target man. He needs somebody to create chances for him as he's not the type of player who can do that himself so often he ends up kind of invisible. I don't think he's quite the same as a Cardwell who runs around a lot and little else, Green tends to lurk around and gets ignored because we play in a way that isn't getting the ball to him in the six yard box.

Wouldn't be surprised if he wants his contract cancelled in the summer rather than stay as he's probably as frustrated as we are with how his season has gone. I feel like he'd probably get a good contract a league lower and do really well in a team that plays to his strengths. The way we want to play isn't doing that as he's being put in a role he's not suited for.

My earlier comments on Green were not solely based on last Sat.  Over the whole season he has been poor at best. (He does jump for some balls, but without any conviction and seldom wins one).