Squad

Got to say that I'm massively concerned and somewhat shocked by the squad RS has put together. It looks massively overloaded in some areas, and hugely lacking in others. We have 2 centre backs over the age of 33 who surely won't both be playing 50 games each, Osborne who has barely played in the last 2/3 years due to constantly being injured and a young lad in Keeble who's untried. I can't believe this hasn't been addressed. Boy couldn't we do with Pearson!

As for left back we have no real cover? Ok Kelly, davies and even woolford could probably do a job if needed but none of these are genuine left backs. As for midfield, we have rose who is the defensive type but other than him it's all attack minded players? Sean mac is a defensive type also but in be amazed if we saw him for more than 5 games this season. So if rose gets injured/suspended then we look a little lacking. Summerfield/berrett don't look natural replacements.

Then in terms of wingers/forwards we look massively overloaded now. 5 wingers plus possibly max Wright who's out on loan. Surely 4 including Wright would of sufficed? 4 strikers plus Asante seems excessive especially when RS has been going with a lone striker? Perhaps if we start go with 2 up top the numbers will make sense.

In terms of overall quality, not bad, but not great either. There's a few signings that stink of 2009/2010 but it's early days and I could be wrong. Summer signings just seem desperate. Cardwell and hooper on 2 year deals? Couldn't we have put there wages together to get 1 higher calibre player? Kelly and woolford the same.

I honestly don't believe the squad RS inherited needed major surgery. We had a good core, it probably just needed 5/6 quality additions. 12 is a complete overhaul. If anything I thought the squad from last year needed trimming down.

I think the number is 30 which is a lot. Again a lot of churn so people will need to learn to play together as a unit.

Surely, some must be on the way out to National league via loans to get the number down.

My biggest concern is defence, very light and shipping goals for fun currently. However, let's not forget we can still sign free agents still (Danny Collins last year)

I'd rather have more than less, the 2 year deals both last year and this year are what they are and now the team need to roll their socks up and get on with it.

With a squad of 30 - nobody can have any excuses not to progress year on year.

It's now about ACTION.

You have to wonder what the management team were doing during the close season, we have gone for quantity rather than quality,it makes some of the signing look like panic signings. I genuinely fear for this season.

Remember there are 3 youth players in that who'll be on peanuts. Plus Asante and McAllister have played under 10 games between them in 18 months so we obviously need to assume that them being fit is a bonus rather than relying upon it. I agree though, I'm not sure what the point is (excluding Asante) of having 4 strikers plus Jones when we play one up front, plus Kelly seems a complete waste of money to me, Woolford looks like (dare I say it) a "ooh, he's available, we must sign him." 5 wingers and 5/6 strikers, so 10/11 players to play 3 positions. To me Kelly and Hooper seem like wastes of budget, they might come good I don't know but 28 including 3 youths and Ahkeem Rose doesn't look too bad but 30 looks like Bignot all over again.

I can't stand the way some individuals get singled out for criticism on here when they have had no chance to prove themselves but taking the squad as a whole it seems weaker than last season and seems to be made up of journeymen, injury prone and callow youth.  On the other hand, that might be a perfect blend of experience, quality players obtained cheap due to recent injuries and exciting young players bursting on to the scene.  Whether it's the depressing former or the exciting latter will depend on the man management and coaching skills of RS and Wilko.  Overall though, I'd take mid table now if I could.

I just don't get the strategy with all the signings we have made. There are going to be plenty of them sitting in the stands with me. Can this be right?

Agree with the concerns. Feels like we've signed a load of journeymen on the way down. The squad is unbalanced and I question the quality of the players that he's brought in. I think we're in trouble, even at this early stage.

We can only name 18 players in a matchday squad - and at least four of those won't set foot on the pitch. Then we have another 10 or 12 who won't play because they're injured or not selected.

I'm not even that old but I sound old when I say 'it wasn't like that in my day'!

I don't think a squad of 30 was anyone's intention, so it makes you believe many of these will, in time, look like panic signings, or signings made simply because they were available and the transfer window was about to close.

I don't think the transfer window is healthy at all. I think that's contributed to this trend of stockpiling players, just in case a few of them get injured because you can't just go out there and get a replacement any time you want.

Could be a good thing the size of the squad specially if we get injuries, clearly Fenty has given sladey and wilko a decent enough budget to have this many players, I guess time will tell
In Slade and Wilko we trust !!

Cynical but come Xmas when Slade has gone...

"we supported them at every opportunity, if they truly needed a player we never turned them down" ...

i think JF as a supporter will have been as disappointed as each of us has with performances and tactics to date, he can at least stand there and say that the club has supplied over and above the pre season squad limits to try and address this....that way he can try and deflect any shite if we continue as is and he is forced to remove Slade.

Whether the budget and squad estimates were actually sufficient /realistic to achieve the stated play off ambition in the first place is a different argument and we wont know until season end when we see who is up there and what they had to spend.

Still early days but i have seen little to inspire me that our current first 11 and tactics are upto it, maybe the two latest signings will spark something.

Clifton, Keeble, Sawyer, Akheem Rose & Wright wil be on low money, Asante & McAllister are always injured.

Warning: back of the homosexual packet calcs!

So that leaves 5 fit senior players sat in the stands then,or put it this way propably around 1/4 million a year.  

Once you add in the 5 young pros and those two injured its likely to be 350-400k for players not in our match day squad.

Haha the swear filter is funny!

Quoted from Swansea_Mariner

Warning: back of the homosexual packet calcs!

So that leaves 5 fit senior players sat in the stands then,or put it this way propably around 1/4 million a year.  

You think our 1st teamers are on 50k a year? Unlikely I'd say.

Quoted from pizzzza

You think our 1st teamers are on 50k a year? Unlikely I'd say.

Our first teamers possibly are but I highly doubt that the average we pay is a grand a week even if you don't include the youngsters who will be on very little.

I bet Dembele is on peanuts at the minute too. Couple of hundred quid a week.

SInce he had a bad injury last year and had Stevenage and us after him, plus being an effectively "new player" because he'd only ever been at the Nike Academy. He'll be on next to nowt, Rose will be on less than Dis I guess

Quoted from Swansea_Mariner

Warning: back of the homosexual packet calcs!

So that leaves 5 fit senior players sat in the stands then,or put it this way propably around 1/4 million a year.  

Once you add in the 5 young pros and those two injured its likely to be 350-400k for players not in our match day squad.

So are you suggesting that we should only have 18 players in order to not have to pay players who aren't in the match day squad?  Unless you've got injuries and suspensions you will nearly always have some fit players sat in the stands because you'd be mental to only have a squad of 18.

The minimum size of a squad in L2 seems to be 20 senior players with some youth teamers propping it up. Morecambe, who almost certainly have one of the lowest budgets in the league, have got a squad of 28. Barnet have a squad of 35. Stevenage have a squad of 28. Crawley have a squad of 26. Cheltenham have 25. Out of all the teams who I'm fairly confident have a lower budget than we do only Yeovil and Accrington have got significantly smaller squads, both having 21 registered players.

With the transfer window now meaning that you can't loan players between September and January, most teams seem to be stockpiling a little bit in order to avoid any real injury or suspension crises. Has to make you question the point of the transfer window but that's a different argument. Bearing in mind we can't get anyone else in now should we find ourselves with injuries, to moan about having fit players sat in the stands seems a bit moronic to me because people would undoubtedly moan if we couldn't field a full bench at any point.

I can understand if people moan about the balance of the squad which I don't think is very good and I can also understand if people moan about the quality. It does seem like we've made some panic signings or regretted previous signings so signed players purely because they've become available, why else would you sign a fifth winger or a sixth striker when you only play one at a time? But we also have some long term absentees and players who there are doubts will ever actually get fit for us and given the new rules you can see why clubs stockpile players.

I believe that ev n prem teams have to name a squad of only 24 or 25, otherwise your Chelsea's Man U's etc would have at least squads of 40+. Slade's going to have to buy a lot of Xmas presents this year.

Quoted from mariner91

So are you suggesting that we should only have 18 players in order to not have to pay players who aren't in the match day squad?  Unless you've got injuries and suspensions you will nearly always have some fit players sat in the stands because you'd be mental to only have a squad of 18.

The minimum size of a squad in L2 seems to be 20 senior players with some youth teamers propping it up. Morecambe, who almost certainly have one of the lowest budgets in the league, have got a squad of 28. Barnet have a squad of 35. Stevenage have a squad of 28. Crawley have a squad of 26. Cheltenham have 25. Out of all the teams who I'm fairly confident have a lower budget than we do only Yeovil and Accrington have got significantly smaller squads, both having 21 registered players.

With the transfer window now meaning that you can't loan players between September and January, most teams seem to be stockpiling a little bit in order to avoid any real injury or suspension crises. Has to make you question the point of the transfer window but that's a different argument. Bearing in mind we can't get anyone else in now should we find ourselves with injuries, to moan about having fit players sat in the stands seems a bit moronic to me because people would undoubtedly moan if we couldn't field a full bench at any point.

I can understand if people moan about the balance of the squad which I don't think is very good and I can also understand if people moan about the quality. It does seem like we've made some panic signings or regretted previous signings so signed players purely because they've become available, why else would you sign a fifth winger or a sixth striker when you only play one at a time? But we also have some long term absentees and players who there are doubts will ever actually get fit for us and given the new rules you can see why clubs stockpile players.

Of those squads you quote how many are over the age of 21?

I'm not suggesting a squad of 18 more like 21 with a couple of young pros so max 25.

maybe we should just leave it to the one whos on more money than us,hes totally qualified in his job, has an excellent record in management, has a great respect from players, knows a player when he sees one, good at tactics,and says he has a job to finish, credit to the guy !....... and if you all believe that,then I will take Mighty Mariner out on a date and marry him, pffft.

Looking at Morecambe's website 7 of those players are under 21.

Well realistically how many players do we have who aren't young pro's? And by young pro's I don't just mean the players who have come through our youth system, I'm including the players who have been released from teams and are yet to have established themselves as professionals.

Out of our squad of 30 there is Clifton (19 y.o), Wright who is out on loan (19 y.o), DJ (19 y.o), Sawyer (18 y.o), Dembele (will be 21 next week), Killip (21 y.o), Cardwell (20 y.o), Akheem Rose (who's profile says he's 117 years old but I reckon it's probably closer to 17).

I highly doubt any of the above are on more than £300/400 a week with the majority of them probably being on less. That leaves 22 "senior" players but out of those we've got one long term absentee in Jamey Osborne and two players who may very well not play for us (McAllister and Asante). With those three players injured that leaves us with 19 players who are established, senior professionals. It would have been poor management to just hope that McAllister and Asante would come good so it makes sense to have enough bodies in to cover for that. Particularly with no loan market this season.

So actually we're only one off the number you suggested, our squad just seems to be beefed out by younger players.

Quoted from Swansea_Mariner

Looking at Morecambe's website 7 of those players are under 21.

Which leaves them with 21 players who are over the age of 21. We have 22 who are over that age. And two of those have big question marks over fitness.

Quoted from mariner91

Well realistically how many players do we have who aren't young pro's? And by young pro's I don't just mean the players who have come through our youth system, I'm including the players who have been released from teams and are yet to have established themselves as professionals.

Out of our squad of 30 there is Clifton (19 y.o), Wright who is out on loan (19 y.o), DJ (19 y.o), Sawyer (18 y.o), Dembele (will be 21 next week), Killip (21 y.o), Cardwell (20 y.o), Akheem Rose (who's profile says he's 117 years old but I reckon it's probably closer to 17).

I highly doubt any of the above are on more than £300/400 a week with the majority of them probably being on less. That leaves 22 "senior" players but out of those we've got one long term absentee in Jamey Osborne and two players who may very well not play for us (McAllister and Asante). With those three players injured that leaves us with 19 players who are established, senior professionals. It would have been poor management to just hope that McAllister and Asante would come good so it makes sense to have enough bodies in to cover for that. Particularly with no loan market this season.

So actually we're only one off the number you suggested, our squad just seems to be beefed out by younger players.

So if we are including Killip and Dembele 21 they also have 3 21 year olds in addition to the 7 under 20 given them a squad of 18 'senior' players.

Quoted from Swansea_Mariner

So if we are including Killip and Dembele 21 they also have 3 21 year olds in addition to the 7 under 20 given them a squad of 18 'senior' players.

You've said yourself you would want a squad of 21 senior players, we have a squad with 22 senior players. Our squad really isn't that big compared to nearly all of the other clubs in the league, particularly when you consider how many of our players are very young. I would like to think we can afford a couple more players than Morecambe as our attendances last season were comfortably three times higher than theirs.

Quoted from mariner91

You've said yourself you would want a squad of 21 senior players, we have a squad with 22 senior players. Our squad really isn't that big compared to nearly all of the other clubs in the league, particularly when you consider how many of our players are very young. I would like to think we can afford a couple more players than Morecambe as our attendances last season were comfortably three times higher than theirs.

I only brought Morecambe up because you mentioned them, you don't know that we have a comparable size squad that's just your assumption. I'm  not saying you're wrong as I can't be bothered to look through all their squads and count those players who fit your definition of 'senior pro'. I looked up one team that appears to show that you can't quite take those numbers you quoted at face value.

Relative to any squad I can ever remember us having this one seems large.

You also mention quality and balance I don't think we've got that right either but that's a whole other can of worms  😆

The squads ok for a 4th tier "mid table prospects club" it's just got a lot to prove now though IMHO, defence is a concern for me but give them time and we might get away with it.

People say the funniest things, they moan about us signing journey men and in the next post moan about 2 year deals to player we have only seen 4 games into the season.

As much as I am worried about the start and what looks like  Slade's inability to get his message across the the players I doubt he has got up each morning since May intending to sign what looks like a mixed bag of pro's.

Quoted from Swansea_Mariner

I only brought Morecambe up because you mentioned them, you don't know that we have a comparable size squad that's just your assumption. I'm  not saying you're wrong as I can't be bothered to look through all their squads and count those players who fit your definition of 'senior pro'. I looked up one team that appears to show that you can't quite take those numbers you quoted at face value.

Relative to any squad I can ever remember us having this one seems large.

You also mention quality and balance I don't think we've got that right either but that'sa while other can of worms  😆

The rules have changed, it's not a like for like comparison to previous seasons. Previously you could set out with a squad of maybe 21 or so and then if you got an injury or two you could dip into the loan market if necessary. Now if you have a squad that small and get unlucky with injuries, you'll be screwed until January. We maybe could be a couple of players lighter but given the fact we've got two players who can't be counted on to get fit and a lot of players who are young, I don't think our squad is that massive. It's definitely not the biggest in the league at any rate, Coventry had 33 players registered according to the programme from the home game.

The main issue with our squad, in my opinion, is the balance and the quality but I guess we'll find out in due course.

Totally agree on the quality and balance point.

I still don't get your point, a squad of 21 senior players if balanced is 2 for every position except a keeper. So with three injuries at any given time you would have a match day squad of 18. If you had more injuries than this surely the younger players make up the squad. If they are not capable of being in the 18 why are they here?

Or are we saying Dembele, Killip, Cardwell, DJ, Clifton etc. are incapable of playing at league 2 level, even at a squad level so they don't count?

I'd much rather have lower numbers and higher quality, supported by a small number of young pros who could if necessary slot in.

The point about the young players is I seriously doubt any of them are on anything like big wages, even the slightly older ones like Cardwell, Kilip and Dembele because they've never played a single game in the football league before joining us. So removing them from the squad wouldn't really make much difference to the wage bill so the difference in quality elsewhere would be minimal.

Coupled with the fact that we now can't loan anyone in should be we get unlucky with injuries. Football management is results driven and managers are generally cautious. I doubt many are willing to risk bad luck with injuries leaving them with the prospect of having no choice but to play youth players for a long period of time so quite a few of them seem to have bigger squads than previous seasons. Like I've already said, we're not some sort of anomaly. There are plenty of teams in our division that have bigger or similar sized squads.

Even if you want to just focus on the actual youth players as opposed to youngish players that aren't established pro's, there are 5 in our squad who are 18 or younger so that leaves another 25 players. 3 of those 25 are long term absentees so realistically you're looking at a current squad of 22 propped up by youth players which is basically what you keep saying you'd want.

I think we just fundermentaly disagree on this you say the numbers aren't unusual and are there or there abouts what I say.

I say 30 doesn't equal the 25/6 that I think is about the right size and that the numbers are unusual. It's ok we can agree to disagree, there are benefits and risks to both approaches to squad building 😉

Separately i think the balance exasperates the issue given that we released five defensive players and only signed three, we look even more lopsided than we did last year, in a completely different way which is odd. It's almost like the management tried to over compensate for our deficiencies.

It'll be an interesting season forsure.

I often think the strength of any squad can be measured by the quality on the bench.

Assuming we keep the same starting eleven as Saturday we potentially could have Killip, Davies, Collins, Jones Clements, DJ & Matt in the dugout which, for League 2, is pretty good IMO.

Good point, although you could also argue that we have some decent/good players throughout the squad but lack two or three of high quality at this level. Bit early to tell of course.

I saw on Twitter today that Jamey Osborne is now doing gym work and expects to be fit before November, this was from the man himself. This can only be good news.

And there are 3 more on trial for the ressies game this week.

Quoted from Mariner_09

I saw on Twitter today that Jamey Osborne is now doing gym work and expects to be fit before November, this was from the man himself. This can only be good news.

That's great news and and possibly a much earlier return than first thought.

In contrast, Lincoln are panicking like hell as they only have a squad of 19 of which three are keepers and a few are on loan until Jan.

I know what I would prefer

Quoted from 120790

In contrast, Lincoln are panicking like hell as they only have a squad of 19 of which three are keepers and a few are on loan until Jan.

I know what I would prefer

That's staggering given the amount of money they must have sloshing about.