England Vs Lithuania     

I'm pleased to see Defoe getting his first start in three years.

Full line up: Hart (c), Walker, Keane, Stones, Bertrand, Dier, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Sterling, Lallana, Alli, Defoe

Great work by Sterling to set up Defoe's goal.

I never rated Sterling but he has impressed me this season.

Just a boring game isnt it. Lithuania displaying nothing going forward as is expected

We are world class at passing the ball slowly across the back four

Not much else you can do against a fit, organised side that put ten men behind the ball. It's all about qualifying and getting the win by any means.

FT      England  2-0  Lithuania

Reckon I'll have a double bet next season on England winning the World Cup in Russia and Town going up as League 2 Champions.

For me most exciting player to start was Sterling.Liked Rashfords energy and dynamism when he came on as well

Quoted from ginnywings

Not much else you can do against a fit, organised side that put ten men behind the ball. It's all about qualifying and getting the win by any means.

Usual story though. Sides do play like that and you have to be cute. I thought Ray Wilkins was still playing.

If you have players like Vardy and Defoe playing on the back man you need to move the ball out of midfield more quickly. Even the manager said this. Nobody really took responsibility to try something different in the middle though it improved a bit with Rashford's running. Every move just slowly worked its way up to the edge of the area and then we were stuck having to play tight one-twos to get anywhere.

I know this is a young side but they are experienced, even if they need some generaling in the middle of the field. Sterling, Ali, Oxl-Chamb and Lalana have to start earning their corn by scoring some goals. It's all very pretty but so little end product. That's OK for now, we accept but there's a lot to improve before this side is going to do anything in a competition.

as much as it might sound a backwards step, against a side that sits back like that you may as well play Crouch and Carroll and lump it to the far post, so difficult to get through them then go direct and have players like Defoe and Vardy hanging around for the loose bits.
Wont be pretty but come tournament football ita all about winning games.

Quoted from moosey_club

as much as it might sound a backwards step, against a side that sits back like that you may as well play Crouch and Carroll and lump it to the far post, so difficult to get through them then go direct and have players like Defoe and Vardy hanging around for the loose bits.
Wont be pretty but come tournament football ita all about winning games.

I agree, for some variety we needed someone like that on the bench at least.

Have to say that Alli was a problem today. Just too slow to move it on and dwelt on the ball much too often rather than letting the ball do the work.

That said, though it was a dull, dull game, the performance and result was generally acceptable.

I'd imagine the next match against the Jocks ought to be a more interesting affair!

England players seem to impress so much more in the Premier League where games are open and they have spaces to move into when playing more counter-attacking football.

So when it comes to playing the likes of Lithuania it's almost literally a whole different ball game.

We're doing enough to win these games, so can't complain too much. But I agree with what's been said about going more direct - or at least having a more direct option on the bench.

These minnows have really stepped it up defensively, so the one thing they wouldn't expect is if we rolled out someone like Carroll and lumped it to him.

It won't happen, but it made me wonder the same thing this afternoon.

When we played direct, everyone complained we were miles behind the leading nations. Now we are trying a different, more mobile game plan, folk are suggesting we hit it long to a target man.

I'm quite happy with what Southgate is trying to do. We may not have quite enough technical excellence to achieve it, but at least we don't start games with players like Milner nowadays. The team, the manager and the direction shows some promise for me and none of the leading lights in Europe had emphatic wins this weekend against some mediocre opposition, apart from maybe Germany but thy are well, Germany.

Quoted from ginnywings

When we played direct, everyone complained we were miles behind the leading nations. Now we are trying a different, more mobile game plan, folk are suggesting we hit it long to a target man.

I'm quite happy with what Southgate is trying to do. We may not have quite enough technical excellence to achieve it, but at least we don't start games with players like Milner nowadays. The team, the manager and the direction shows some promise for me and none of the leading lights in Europe had emphatic wins this weekend against some mediocre opposition , apart from maybe Germany but thy are well, Germany.

Holland even sacked their manager.........we are going to win tournaments now though, the Germans are going to tell us how to do it.

It'll all come together post-Brexit.

Never won 'owt while we've been a member of the EU..

Was at the game yesterday. Not sure if it's always like that but the atmosphere was dreadful. You get glared at for raising your voice and got daggers from the bloke in front for me not standing up for Lithuanias national anthem.

Good weekend away in London though. Alot harder than you'd think to find a weatherspoons haha

I wonder what the team selection and the result would have been if Allardyce was still manager?

I seem to be confused over the Rooney situation, at 31 England's top goal scorer and can play more than one position he is being cast as past it, whereas Defoe at 34 is only a striker( I know he scored yesterday!) is now our saviour.

Quoted from Gaffer58

I seem to be confused over the Rooney situation, at 31 England's top goal scorer and can play more than one position he is being cast as past it, whereas Defoe at 34 is only a striker( I know he scored yesterday!) is now our saviour.

Leading "fit" English goalscorer in our domestic League i believe.....its qualification, we need to win the games to progress. Defoe does one thing, shoots on sight and by and large hits the target, virtually every time ,which is alot more than can be said for the 100's of millions pounds worth of "talent" playing around him last night.

He may not be the long term future of England but what we all crave is some sort of competition success...and for that you need someone to score goals.....last tournament we had Kane as our leading hope going into it and he was fking awful under the spotlight. Rooney has not consistently produced at any big tournament despite his so called "world class striker" tag so lets not go down that route, he doesnt stay in threatening positions and ends up taking the ball off the back four 20 yards in our own half...not what we need from a striker.

Quoted from Gaffer58

I seem to be confused over the Rooney situation, at 31 England's top goal scorer and can play more than one position he is being cast as past it, whereas Defoe at 34 is only a striker( I know he scored yesterday!) is now our saviour.

Age should not be a measure of value of contribution. Defoe has scored more than half of a struggling Sunderland side's goals in the past two seasons. I'm struggling to think what Rooney has contributed to Manure or England in the same period.

Some players age quicker than others, some have injuries that draw their careers to end quicker than others.

A fit and in-form Defoe is a short term sticking plaster for England that may have to last until the World Cup. We also may not need him.

But, I can't for the life of me imagine how the Rooney of the past couple of seasons can offer more to the team than the wealth of talent we have in the number 10 role. Lallana has been awesome and blossoming as an international player being one example.

Time to move on and build for the future. Having said that, the present isn't too bad anyway. I really don't think we need to start shoehorning Rooney into the England team again. Look what happened at the Euros.

Two different scenarios. Defoe is a nice back up plan to have in a defined position. Including Rooney affects how the whole team plays.

A fresh start with a new manager should be exactly that..

Quoted from Bigdog

Age should not be a measure of value of contribution. Defoe has scored more than half of a struggling Sunderland side's goals in the past two seasons. I'm struggling to think what Rooney has contributed to Manure or England in the same period.

Some players age quicker than others, some have injuries that draw their careers to end quicker than others.

A fit and in-form Defoe is a short term sticking plaster for England that may have to last until the World Cup. We also may not need him.

But, I can't for the life of me imagine how the Rooney of the past couple of seasons can offer more to the team than the wealth of talent we have in the number 10 role. Lallana has been awesome and blossoming as an international player being one example.

Time to move on and build for the future. Having said that, the present isn't too bad anyway. I really don't think we need to start shoehorning Rooney into the England team again. Look what happened at the Euros.

Two different scenarios. Defoe is a nice back up plan to have in a defined position. Including Rooney affects how the whole team plays.

A fresh start with a new manager should be exactly that..

This.

Rooney not only affects how we play but he demands the ball all the time and wanders all over the pitch.  I was surprised when Defoe was picked, but he is clearly still sharp and he is different in that he is almost like an old fashioned goal hanger who is always in a place trying to score and his movement is still excellent whereas your modern day striker is expected to do a lot more pulling players out wide and make room for others to utilise the space created. That can work but it depends on the opposition and if they are parking the bus as most teams apart from the top ones do, this tactic doesn't work. For me, much better to have a goal poacher against buses.

In the Euro 2016 qualifiers, Rooney made 8 appearances and scored 7 goals, yet he somehow gets written off on a regular basis. I know he doesn't do it at tournaments but the team in general don't do much at them either. You have to qualify first and Rooney has helped us do that well over the years. I just don't get all the criticism he receives, despite being England's record goalscorer.  

Quoted from ginnywings

In the Euro 2016 qualifiers, Rooney made 8 appearances and scored 7 goals, yet he somehow gets written off on a regular basis. I know he doesn't do it at tournaments but the team in general don't do much at them either. You have to qualify first and Rooney has helped us do that well over the years. I just don't get all the criticism he receives, despite being England's record goalscorer.  

I get the criticism. Rooney has never performed in a major competition, we know that. But also he affected the way the side performed in qualifying as well as the tournaments. In 2016 qualifying 4 of his goals were penalties. In fact 6 of his 50 goals have been penalties. Without them he would not hold Charlton's record. He has scored only 6 in tournament final stages.

But the main issue with Rooney is that he is all over the place mentally and physically. He demands the ball but often fails to do anything constructive with it. In a sense he gets caught between trying too hard and playing safe so we see a mix of square passes that get intercepted and overambitious through balls that get picked off. His control is not what it was either so he is frequently caught in possession or loses the ball in a dribble and leaves his side wide  open to the counterattack.

His fitness is OK but no more than that. He does not have a yard of pace to lose an opponent anymore. Strangely perhaps Defoe does although he's 4 years older. Physique comes into play here perhaps. Rooney has always carried weight in his legs. As a youngster he had enough speed to get by but he's lost that some time back.

I have no quarrel with his commitment to the cause though. He puts in the effort as a rule and probably thinks he is badly done by.

But in my opinion, for what it's worth, Rooney should have been finished as an international 3 years ago but has been picked for two reasons since then, a gamble he might come good and the lack of any other talent to replace him.

I'd guess that some of the criticism of Rooney comes because he's just not lived up to his early promise. I reckon his injuries must have taken more out of him than you'd expect because he's been a shadow of the player he was as a teenager pretty much since the age of 27 or 28 though he should have been in his prime.

Either that, or he's become a lazy so-and-so after making his millions and just isn't putting the effort into his game!

Quoted from Maringer

I'd guess that some of the criticism of Rooney comes because he's just not lived up to his early promise. I reckon his injuries must have taken more out of him than you'd expect because he's been a shadow of the player he was as a teenager pretty much since the age of 27 or 28 though he should have been in his prime.

Either that, or he's become a lazy so-and-so after making his millions and just isn't putting the effort into his game!

I would say that's fair comment. When you think back to those first few games where he was bursting past players like Gazza used to do and then think how ponderous he is now. I'm just surprised how many managers have failed to realise this. Fergie knew it so he changed his position to accommodate Ronaldo and get some pace up front. But you would think the player himself would have done more to change his game. He's no age at 31 but he plays as though he's 41.

He's suffered for 2 reasons. One, he doesn't have a proper position, we don't know if it's midfield, No. 10, striker or whatever which means he can't develop any consistency. Secondly, he hasn't been quite as good as he promised to be. He burst onto the scene and was ridiculously good for a period but he soon became targeted and has subsequently become tired out and worn down by this endless targeting of him on and off the field.