Negativity

Much has been made of a perceived air of negativity around GTFC by Mssrs Hurst and (in particular) Scott.

So you can imagine my (pretend) shock at hearing Jamie Forrester on Radio Humberside last night. He said he had a good mate on the Luton bench on Friday night, and failed to hear Rob Scott have a single positive thing to say all 90 minutes.

When Scott and Fenty talk about negativity, are they looking a little closer to home than we previously assumed and is it really a good idea to be critical of others doing exactly what you yourself are doing?

I'm not bashing Scott, but when the likes of Tondeur and Forrester describe us as lacking in quality and ability and Forrester comments about the managers berating the [layers, you have to question if the duo's style is having the desired effect with players at a slightly higher level?

Think it's a fair question.

It's always easier to be more positive when things are going well, but I haven't heard a great deal of positivity since they joined.

No-one want to appear over-confident and be accused of complacency later, but anyone who subscribes to MP knows we always give the opposition too much respect every game in every preview (this has been the case for years IMO)

I'd love to hear S or H smile and say "We're fully confident we can turn things around !"  

Positivity can rub off.

Managers who manage like Sargeant  Majors are  in the main poor managers, players become frightened
to make a mistake and therefore  too often  take the easy options for fear of being berated, the old Carrot and Stick analogy is true,  everything has to be balanced, too much stick achieves nothing.

"What the mind conceives and believes, it achieves".

I've paraphrased that from a well known book on success. The premise of just about every book on success philosophy out there rests upon positive thinking and positive actions. It might sound wet, but it's true. Think and act in a positive way, and good things happen. Think and act in a negative way and bad things happen. The law of attraction and all that jazz.

There's no better example in the game than Nigel Adkins. For me, a bizarre guy who often sounds utterly moronic in his unwavering positivity irrespective of the situation, but look where it's got him. Two promotions with the cúnts down the road, avoiding relegation despite being the smallest club in the division by a country mile, another promotion with Southampton despite being in the relegation zone after 10 games when he took over and now top of the Championship with a generally unfancied side. One way or another, he'll probably be a Premier League manager this time next year. Like it or not, his outlook and philosophy have made him an incredibly effective manager.

I've said this before, but the problem is not necessarily down to the current management team or playing staff. Negativity is engrained into the very walls of the entire club. Whether it's managers or players, bring them into an overwhelmingly negative environment like we have here and they eventually take on a negative mindset. Were Scott and Hurst always negative and critical at Boston? I don't believe they were, but they're 'infected' with it now, as are the rest of the playing staff and it's bloody hard to turn it round from here.

For me, it's the only explanation for our completely illogical fall from grace. For years we've had one of the biggest playing budgets in the division we've been playing in and for years we've been one of the poorest sides. How many players have signed for us and initially looked like world beaters before slipping into the habits of others at the club? How many players have signed for us in the last 5 years and gone onto better things? I can only think of Ryan Bennett and Alan Connell. Most leave us sinking into the football abyss, even those with natural talent like Peter Bore. Whatever people think of him, he had more natural ability about him than to be playing for Harrogate Town at 23.

I honestly don't think you can solve it without scrapping the whole lot and starting again. But that's not remotely realistic when we're struggling to even survive into the new year financially.

Personally, I think we're fúcked...

Going on that theory, I can think of only one thing. Bin Crockett and Tubbs.................. get Dave Boylen in.  

Holes in this plan being:

Woods: accused of not being vocal enough and not shouting at players when things didn't go right

Lennie Lawerence: One of the most positive managers we've had, constantly berating the "small club mentality" and bigging us up as a possible premiership side

It's a balance of both, encouraging players when they need it, but giving them both barrels when they slack off. I'm not privy to the changing room conversations so I can't say what approach they used on Friday, in fact the only people that can are members of the squad.

I am curious though, I couldn't make the 400 mile trip on Friday, but I'm willing to guess that positive comments were rolling from the stands. There is a hint of irony about complaints of negativity coming from a group of fans that boo players as they come on to the pitch

well, its the whole abject enthusiasm for me. its not just the club thats infected, i think its more than that. i think it could also be down to the area itself. joblessness, area's going to ruin and just a feeling of depression. And, people should be able to go to a game every other saturday to enjoy it and have some release from the day to day turmoil. but as scott said, 'weve got no facking maney'. Well my little cockney sparrar, neither do a lot of people that turn up week in week out. the club has got to be a focal point to the local community (and also those that are further afield too i guess). how many times have we got to say it? til we are blue in the face???? the ground holds appx 9500 but we get 3000 turn up. thats a lot of empty seats. and a lot of 'potential investors' in the club (i mean those going to the game every week, and not a russian gazzilionaire). understandably we are not gonna get the 500 or so die hard town fans that turn up in the away end every week (unless we are playing the likes of lincoln, mansfield, york) so we need to do something that encourages the product that is grimsby town football club. by god, the "smaller" clubs must be rubbing their collective hands when town rock up!!!

i can understand where people are coming from with regards to shorty and shouty. if my boss was constantly having a go at me i would end up wanting to chin the canunt not work harder. but then again, i wouldnt want a boss who is nice/friendly all the time. there has to be a happy medium. the players must feel respected and in turn, that will have the same effect where the staff (players) respect their managers. of course, we all want to see passion portrayed by those in charge (i think slade had this in abundance).

Poojah

"What the mind conceives and believes, it achieves".

I honestly don't think you can solve it without scrapping the whole lot and starting again. But that's not remotely realistic when we're struggling to even survive into the new year financially.

Personally, I think we're fúcked...

Adding to the depression methinks

We moaned at Woods because he was not vocal enough,

Scott is vocal but not always in the right way,

SO

MR SCOTT, when shouting at the players on the pitch , give them some encouragement and praise as well as the odd moan,

You never know, it just might work.

as usual poojah talks alot of common sense. i think psychology/ 'training the brain' should be used a lot more - we certainly do in athletics - have you EVER heard a 100m sprinter saying 'Bolt is unbeatable, I'll be lucky to get in front of him etc etc ' No - it's alwys stuff like ' i believe i can beat him, he's not unbeatable'etc etc
when we talk to our athletes we try to get them to remember positive experiences - a high jumper approaching a new height is told it's only a cm (and then show then how small a cm is) over what you've jumped before , remember what it was like when you set your p.b. - all positive stuff
i suspect the new2 could do far worse than get a sports psychologist involved.

having said that i just think we're cursed, and an old gypsy with some lucky heather might be the next best idea!!!

if a financial firestorm is to engulf us next season in 1 way it might have 1 benefit in that it'd sweep the negativity away immediately and the club would rally round and the whole place would become  enthused with people positively supporting us in a time of adversity

For me all Scott's come across as since he got here is a loud mouthed idiot, football management has moved on from just bollocking players...

It is true, I haven't anything positive come out the club in a while and fans will be negative if the only thing they see is a spineless team with no direction or purpose, let alone tactics...

Quoted from aldi_01

For me all Scott's come across as since he got here is a loud mouthed idiot, football management has moved on from just bollocking players...

It is true, I haven't anything positive come out the club in a while and fans will be negative if the only thing they see is a spineless team with no direction or purpose, let alone tactics...

You've just posted the same thing twice in 4 minutes on two separate threads, as well as countless others Aldi...we do get your message.

Quoted from forza ivano

having said that i just think we're cursed, and an old gypsy with some lucky heather might be the next best idea!!!

knowing towns luck, we'd end up as the new dale farm!!

Quoted from forza ivano

as usual poojah talks alot of common sense. i think psychology/ 'training the brain' should be used a lot more - we certainly do in athletics - have you EVER heard a 100m sprinter saying 'Bolt is unbeatable, I'll be lucky to get in front of him etc etc ' No - it's alwys stuff like ' i believe i can beat him, he's not unbeatable'etc etc
when we talk to our athletes we try to get them to remember positive experiences - a high jumper approaching a new height is told it's only a cm (and then show then how small a cm is) over what you've jumped before , remember what it was like when you set your p.b. - all positive stuff
i suspect the new2 could do far worse than get a sports psychologist involved.

Football like a lot of things, is played in the mind,

If you tell a good footballer he is doing it all wrong enough times, he will start to doubt himself,

If you tell an average footballer he his very good enough times, he might start to believe you,

So if we all get behind the players on the pitch and that includes Scott, encourage them , praise them and forgive there errors,

They might start to believe in themselves more.

Chatting to one of the pro's on Sunday afternoon and discussing Hursts negative outlook for the Luton game following the Ebbsfleet  game and he commented, "if you tell a footballer he is sh/t for long enough ...he will be".  

To achieve encouragement, it needs to start at the top, and we have lost the voices and opinions of both senior shareholders as they hold their off field battle for supremacy in the shares stakes.

This battle will go either of three ways........ end in tears and the downfall of the club, or some miraculous knight on shining steed will emerge from Parker's business friends / associates as next year's saviour.

The last scenario is both selling out to a completely new buyer.... very little chance of that unless that buyer knows our history at Championship level and thinks it can be re-created.

1. Loses all directors lots of money - can they honestly just write that amount of money away?

2. There is no visible sign of anyone wanting to look at the club, or have any input as a new shareholder.

3. 5000 - 1 shot outsider - would probably have to be someone foreign wanting to sneak into the country and there are higher teams than ours to take over and make bigger and better !

Can't see any sea food or green power energy companies wanting to invest yet, can you?

Not a good time to be the poor fan who just wants to see a good football team playing well for the sake of the people who support them !

It is OK to moan at management for having a go at players on the field, maybe they do it too much but watching televised games you rarely see a manager leap up to praise a player no matter what team it is.

I think part of this problem is false positivity - the silly talking up of games before they are played and the inane comments that managers and players are forced to make to the local press. Again, this happens in every club but if you read the Yorkshire Evening Post or the Sheffield star you don't see the drivel that we see before every game from players. You get a concise comment from the manager and that's it. Whoever started this garbage to the GT should stop it now. Look at the stuff after the last game - Mckeown "says" that we need to tighten up. Oh whoopee! Genius. A six year old could say and write that after last week. No doubt on Friday the GT will quote some player "saying" we mustn't underestimate the opposition even if they are 12 leagues below us and six of their players are pensioners.

Some may think this is just meaningless but it does have an effect. We get this constant building up and then a let down or - if we are fortunate enough to win we get even more building up and a let down. Look at the GT stuff on Liam Hearn before the Luton game. Going for a 3rd successive hat trick Liam? No pressure mate, just to let you know it's never been done and the whole town is relying on you to do it in front of the cameras. Stupidity.

The club needs to reach out to the fans but this weekly garbage is the wrong way to do it - through some third party that wouldn't know a football if it hit their existing spherical objects at 100mph. Yes, the GT has done well with the kids for a quid and all that jazz but the GT is not GTFC. The GT is desperate for interviews and quotes and the feeling of most fans is that they don't get them, they just make it up. The club needs proper public relations. It would help to have a chairman who can string three coherent sentences together for a start, but failing that there has to be a real effort to get the club and the fans on the same wavelength.

It's not so much about being positive or negative, it's about being truthful and realistic and above all, together.

Quoted from grimsby pete

We moaned at Woods because he was not vocal enough,

Scott is vocal but not always in the right way,

SO

MR SCOTT, when shouting at the players on the pitch , give them some encouragement and praise as well as the odd moan,
You never know, it just might work.

Honestly Pete, I stood right behind Scott at one of the pre-season games and to be fair he was giving credit as well as criticism when either were due. I don't believe he's quite as one dimensional as some are making out or assuming.

It's not even just about minds of the players or what comes out the managers mouths though is it ?

Look at most away games, we're setting up to avoid defeat and snatch draws rather than adopting a positive attacking mentality trying to win them.

If we'd have got a 0-0 draw with Luton, bet your bottom dollar Scott and everyone would have said clean sheet, good defensive performance(which it was), solid base to build on, good point.

But it doesn't solve the larger issue that you need to win games to build confidence.
Said for ages, draws are no good in the long term.
Everyone knows if you win 1 and lose 2 it's just the same as drawing 3.

When Scott came in he said he was a "winner" so when is he gonna change our tactics to reflect it ?
Hopefully Bath.

Quoted from upthestripes

Honestly Pete, I stood right behind Scott at one of the pre-season games and to be fair he was giving credit as well as criticism when either were due. I don't believe he's quite as one dimensional as some are making out or assuming.

I was sat behind him at Ebbsfleet Ian,

He was up and down like a yo yo all game,

Not one bit of praise past his lips that night.

Quoted from upthestripes

Honestly Pete, I stood right behind Scott at one of the pre-season games and to be fair he was giving credit as well as criticism when either were due. I don't believe he's quite as one dimensional as some are making out or assuming.

You're probably right but there's a feeling now that the mould has been cast and the more 'entrenched' posters on here have dug in and will stick doggedly to their own impression of the management team. Shades of 'Woods is rubbish he just stands there with his arms folded' and 'Watkiss' body language shows he doesn't get on with so-and-so' and so on that we get on here every season. i don't see this problem myself but this forum is for getting things off your chest, in what ever way can.

Like all things, it's a lot easier to give praise when things are going well.
Seems to me Scott loses it when things don't go his way.

Quoted from 1600

Like all things, it's a lot easier to give praise when things are going well.
Seems to me Scott loses it when things don't go his way.

reminds me a bit of what happened to Rio not so long ago when he hit a bad patch of form.His brother Anton came on the radio and had a go at some of the fans for slating him in not remembering the tremendous service he has given to the club     a  few bad games and they forgot all the good he had done

Pats on the back come after hard work and results, until then you work hard to achieve the results through blood sweat and tears.  The only time we are consistent is when we are being consistently crap, get it right and the praise and blowing of smoke up players bottom's will ensue en mass.

The problem we have had as fans are concerned is the constant short changing on entertainment, charlatan mercenaries and managers who end up slagging the fans for their short comings.  We could be on par with Lutons attendance if we had a sniff of promotion but aren't because we have the stench of failure in our nostrils and it comes from Fenty and whipping boys.

Quoted from grimsby pete

I was sat behind him at Ebbsfleet Ian,

He was up and down like a yo yo all game,

Not one bit of praise past his lips that night.

Well fair enough Pete. Was there anything worth priaising that day though?

Quoted from RoboCod

You're probably right but there's a feeling now that the mould has been cast and the more 'entrenched' posters on here have dug in and will stick doggedly to their own impression of the management team. Shades of 'Woods is rubbish he just stands there with his arms folded' and 'Watkiss' body language shows he doesn't get on with so-and-so' and so on that we get on here every season. i don't see this problem myself but this forum is for getting things off your chest, in what ever way can.

Oh don't get me wrong I agree, certainly not having a go at anyone, just giving my own personal two penneth.
Suppose when things are going wrong we look for reasons and causes everywhere, and perhaps rightly so.

Quoted from Marinerz93

Pats on the back come after hard work and results, until then you work hard to achieve the results through blood sweat and tears.  The only time we are consistent is when we are being consistently crap, get it right and the praise and blowing of smoke up players bottom's will ensue en mass.

The problem we have had as fans are concerned is the constant short changing on entertainment, charlatan mercenaries and managers who end up slagging the fans for their short comings.  We could be on par with Lutons attendance if we had a sniff of promotion but aren't because we have the stench of failure in our nostrils and it comes from Fenty and whipping boys.

To be honest Dave the last thing I could accuse the current squad of is "Not trying". I honestly think we are lacking in the skill department, which has made me reappraise my initial belief that 100% effort is all that is required...

Quoted from barralad

To be honest Dave the last thing I could accuse the current squad of is "Not trying". I honestly think we are lacking in the skill department, which has made me reappraise my initial belief that 100% effort is all that is required...

I have been harsh and I guess it's the frustration of wanting the club and players to achieve what I believe they can.  I'll be honest, I personally struggle to accept that people I put faith in, give up and these players have on more than a few occasions done that. 100% effort in every game will see you finish above mid table in most leagues and as you highlighted the skill coupled with team spirit takes you further.

This team has worked a lot harder than we have seen for several seasons but we still get players only putting in half a shift.  I'm not demanding promotion but I do demand that they give their all not just for us but for each other.  I want that fighting spirit back and I want us to once again 'don't care who the opposition is because they are in for one hell of a game.'

It's a lot easier to put 100% in each game if you're not getting beaten cos motivational levels and heads can quickly drop.

Whilst it's earlyish days, I thought when S&H came, what we lost in skill we would more than make up for in effort.
I think barralad is right about skill levels but throw poor defending and some questionable match tactics into the mix there can't be too much in it ?

At least there's plenty of room for improvement - that's what I'm clinging on to right now...

so, why the **** cant we attract a loanee or 2 with at least a little bit of skill to the club???

who was the last player/s we had that had the great combination of a winning mentality and skill???? i am scratching my follically challenged noggin trying to think of someone that set the BP billiard table alight :
and there in lies the problem. players that have been potential targets havent come for one reason or another.

i even heard, from a fellow poster on here, that players agents were actually "discouraging" players from coming here. now, that makes you think! maybe this IS our level.
but, the players I would have liked to have seen arrive in mid season just didnt. the likes of cunnington and ismail yakubu  could have been good aditions to the squad.

Lack of loanees = lack of spare funds at this point in the season - you buy in repacements, you still have to pay those not performing unless they can be loaned out - no big rush for take up there may tell a story !

January to season end - what will we need?

May see a couple in, and several more out on loans - speedy powerful centre half needed with some captain material or back four organisation sense - will cost more to get someone reasonable.

Attacking right back - fit up and downer with tackling abilities - let's see how the left back shapes and maybe go back  to Stuart again for the other side as a loan?

Could we accept Hull as a ongoing loan player feeder club to us? - short term loans to bring their players along to BSP level regular playing.

i think youve hit the nail on the head there acko. why cant we become a feeder club?? as awful as it sounds that h~*l are now a 'bigger club' we need to take advantage of this. i believe laws tried to do this with forest when he first arrived but the board said no. makes you wonder.........................................................

even the likes of (dirty) leeds, forest, leicester could help in some way or another. but, then again, the player has still got to say yes.

we have such utter tripe in the squad at the moment that are claiming a wage (yes i am looking at you messrs makofo, duffy and spencer) that some loanee's cant do much worse.

Quoted from upthestripes

Well fair enough Pete. Was there anything worth priaising that day though?

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The first minute was very good.

Quoted from WOZOFGRIMSBY

so, why the **** cant we attract a loanee or 2 with at least a little bit of skill to the club???

who was the last player/s we had that had the great combination of a winning mentality and skill???? i am scratching my follically challenged noggin trying to think of someone that set the BP billiard table alight :
and there in lies the problem. players that have been potential targets havent come for one reason or another.

i even heard, from a fellow poster on here, that players agents were actually "discouraging" players from coming here. now, that makes you think! maybe this IS our level.but, the players I would have liked to have seen arrive in mid season just didnt. the likes of cunnington and ismail yakubu  could have been good aditions to the squad.

If this is true then there could be several reasons and not necessarily due to our level. The constant changing of managers could be a reason  due to one manager appraising a player as being able to fit in his style of play wheras another manager could have cpmpletely different ideas. The demands of both the Board and fans for " instant success " could also be a factor. The fans  " booing " of certain players over the last few seasons could make agents reluctant to expose their charges to that kind of treatment.