Jason’s latest Guardian article

Another intelligent article by Jason Stockwood. The implicit criticisms of Paul Hurst are fascinating. Definitely gives hope for the coming season.

https://www.theguardian.com/fo.....lt-year-love-emotion

Fans emotions run high . We’re entitled to our opinion on a forum . We are mostly wrong I guess but we’ll see how next season pans out ? Reading that piece is like reading a patronising. “ I know more than you do “ article . Sorry , football is not that simple

Two things after reading that. Firstly and a bit flippantly - he spent lockdown creating an animation with his kids about how the mind works? I know a fella through work whose kids go to chess camp…. Things have moved on since I was a lad hanging around on street corners and drinking cider.

More seriously though there’s clearly something in the data led approach and if the January signings were driven by that then bring on some more. I just have a nagging worry that there ought to be some art in the equation and not just science. I’ve got two heroes as far as football management is concerned, obviously Sir Alan and then Brian Clough neither of whom I suspect were data driven. Both created teams of not necessarily the best players but which were more than the sum of their parts and were made so by man management. The best data in the world isn’t enough without the magic ingredient of inspiration however it is delivered. I want a team of heroes and magicians and I’m yet to be convinced they can be identified on a laptop.

He might have made a rod for his own back with that article and some of his similar comments about our season. What’s he gonna say if next season ends up with more of the same? Another season spent bobbing around just above the drop zone would be fatal to his perceived competency.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. I get the impression he regrets allowing Hurst to continue as manager after last season. They probably should have offered him a new role of Head Coach with a minimal role in recruitment (like Artell has) and if Hurst wasn’t happy with that then they could have parted amicably then.

Our problems are far simpler than has been made out. Primarily we don’t have any leaders in our team. Danny Rose has been good for us, but him being captain tells you the state of the rest of the squad. And our midfield has been generally atrocious.

We need leaders all over the pitch. And we need a total upgrade in midfield compared to where we were at the start of this season. Add some genuine strength in depth in attack and that would solve most of our problems.

Quoted from WesternMariner

Two things after reading that. Firstly and a bit flippantly - he spent lockdown creating an animation with his kids about how the mind works? I know a fella through work whose kids go to chess camp…. Things have moved on since I was a lad hanging around on street corners and drinking cider.

More seriously though there’s clearly something in the data led approach and if the January signings were driven by that then bring on some more. I just have a nagging worry that there ought to be some art in the equation and not just science. I’ve got two heroes as far as football management is concerned, obviously Sir Alan and then Brian Clough neither of whom I suspect were data driven. Both created teams of not necessarily the best players but which were more than the sum of their parts and were made so by man management. The best data in the world isn’t enough without the magic ingredient of inspiration however it is delivered. I want a team of heroes and magicians and I’m yet to be convinced they can be identified on a laptop.

All clubs have player data so the arts you mention will still have a huge say, thank goodness. Just as many teams will come unstuck by the use of data, as those clubs it helps, because of the way they evaluate it and the all important context to it all.

As with any other methods of putting a list of targets together you have to put a good enough offer in front of them so in many respects the recruitment is as complex as ever.

What is a good move though is that all the management believe in it, and of a certain way of playing. Like with any system, if everyone is pulling in the same direction it is easier in theory to adjust things over time  rather than ripping things up and starting again each time.

Seems like Hurst was offered the chance of a data led approach but completely shunned it to the extent of signing a forward who had played 2 seasons at right back as a forward ; I doubt 'the data' suggested that one was a good fit for obvious reasons .

Artell has been appointed on the premise it will be a data led approach , which he must be fine with as otherwise he wouldn't have accepted the job .

He will still have the final say on signings I assume but recruitment now will be specifically from the pool of players identified from Joe Hutchinson & the data rather than a manager just picking players he wants .

At least it's a plan , a route to some sort of better hopefully that helps deliver improved results on the pitch with more assets that can be sold at higher value than at what we pick them up for.

I imagine there will be a set pattern of play from the age groups right through with a fixed formation (assuming it will be a variant of 4-3-3 in some way ) with little deviation from the set process , It will be interesting if we have a wobble if there is any wiggle room within this , as we saw after all those pumpings the players were not capable of playing 'the Grimsby way' or an approach that is likely the boards ideal ; but now players will be recruited for this particular style so there will be no excuse that we don't have the right players in the building .

Whoever the manager is the system in place will remain in place you would have thought , very strategic with a small degree of flexibility ; with more emphasis on 'group accountability' rather than individuals . However the primary decision makers will have to take it however it goes ,well or badly .

I think it's interesting times and really hope it works out for us .

Alan Buckley may not have had data but he did have.a set way that he wanted to play and he signed players that fitted into that style.  He never compromised on that often much to the irritation of some supporters who’d complain about the fancy pass and move and shout to lump it into the box.  

In contrast, could anyone describe PH’s way of playing?  He made some great signings and brought success but I couldn’t tell you what was the PH way.

Every club uses data.  It would be weird not to in this day and age.

Quoted from LondonMariner43

Alan Buckley may not have had data but he did have.a set way that he wanted to play and he signed players that fitted into that style.  He never compromised on that often much to the irritation of some supporters who’d complain about the fancy pass and move and shout to lump it into the box.  

In contrast, could anyone describe PH’s way of playing?  He made some great signings and brought success but I couldn’t tell you what was the PH way.

Every club uses data.  It would be weird not to in this day and age.

PH had a different 'way' for every opponent. Grind out results by nullifying the opposition. Without McAtee in general and some stunning individual performances in the play off run (Waterfall and Fox in particular), we would still be in the National League.

Quoted from WesternMariner

Two things after reading that. Firstly and a bit flippantly - he spent lockdown creating an animation with his kids about how the mind works? I know a fella through work whose kids go to chess camp…. Things have moved on since I was a lad hanging around on street corners and drinking cider.

More seriously though there’s clearly something in the data led approach and if the January signings were driven by that then bring on some more. I just have a nagging worry that there ought to be some art in the equation and not just science. I’ve got two heroes as far as football management is concerned, obviously Sir Alan and then Brian Clough neither of whom I suspect were data driven. Both created teams of not necessarily the best players but which were more than the sum of their parts and were made so by man management. The best data in the world isn’t enough without the magic ingredient of inspiration however it is delivered. I want a team of heroes and magicians and I’m yet to be convinced they can be identified on a laptop.

I think this is the thing people are getting confused with, when they say data they don't just look at some stats on a computer screen and think yes that's my player. As we know data can be misconstrued in any way shape or form to make a player look good. They are still getting out to games as evidenced by Joe's cancelled flight, I also know a friend who does some northern scouting work for Watford and he's got a couple friends in the south who have done some work for the football club in regard to going out and watching games. With how the game is now aswell, you can get the full 90 minutes of every single game right down to step 6 on scouting websites.

Quoted from LondonMariner43

Alan Buckley may not have had data but he did have.a set way that he wanted to play and he signed players that fitted into that style.  He never compromised on that often much to the irritation of some supporters who’d complain about the fancy pass and move and shout to lump it into the box.  

In contrast, could anyone describe PH’s way of playing?  He made some great signings and brought success but I couldn’t tell you what was the PH way.

Every club uses data.  It would be weird not to in this day and age.

Also Buckley worked astonishingly hard at identifying who he brought in. Too hard perhaps. I’d imagine he’d be a supporter of the more modern way of doing things as he was an absolute student of the game.