Tony Blair's Wimbledon to Belfast plan

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67832071


It seems Tony Blair once had a plan of getting Northern Ireland into the Premier League when Wimbledon were looking at relocating
Politicians and football!

Quoted from Southwark Mariner

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67832071


It seems Tony Blair once had a plan of getting Northern Ireland into the Premier League when Wimbledon were looking at relocating
Politicians and football!

Madman, dead behind the eyes, he and his family have become wealthy in the extreme on the back of his time in power, one wonders what would have been in it for him had this move gone ahead.

Him and his vile money grabbing wife should be in prison.
An odious lying toad some socialist with 27 houses.

Cannot stand the man. releasing all those murdering scum with the Good Friday Agreement, he should be in jail.

The article doesn’t mention the constant rumour of Wimbledon moving to Dublin which started in 1996 and which rumbled on until Wimbledon were relegated in 2000. I’d imagine that any support for Wimbledon moving to Belfast would have been offered as an attempt of avoiding them/a PL club moving to Dublin.

Quoted from 123614

Cannot stand the man. releasing all those murdering scum with the Good Friday Agreement, he should be in jail.

Yeah, boo to peace and all that stuff.

A whole generation of folk in Northern Ireland have had a much better life thanks to the GFA, which really was the only possible solution to the problems over there.

The fact that the arseholes on both side of the divide are still bickering shows it wasn't a panacea, but it has done a lot of good. The Brexit clownshoe brigade have done their best to mess it up, but hopefully, the peace will hold despite their shenanigans.

Blair has a lot of things to answer for, but allowing a generation to grow up in more peaceful circumstances isn't one of them.

Quoted from 123614

Cannot stand the man. releasing all those murdering scum with the Good Friday Agreement, he should be in jail.

That's no way to talk about out soldiers.

Quoted from Maringer

Yeah, boo to peace and all that stuff.

A whole generation of folk in Northern Ireland have had a much better life thanks to the GFA, which really was the only possible solution to the problems over there.

The fact that the arseholes on both side of the divide are still bickering shows it wasn't a panacea, but it has done a lot of good. The Brexit clownshoe brigade have done their best to mess it up, but hopefully, the peace will hold despite their shenanigans.

Blair has a lot of things to answer for, but allowing a generation to grow up in more peaceful circumstances isn't one of them.

If you had some of your best mates killed out there, and had to endure all the excrement, riots, gun fights, and abuse that I got during my 3 tours of duty there, then I think you might think differently.

Quoted from friskneymariner

That's no way to talk about out soldiers.

I don't find that at all funny, seeing as I was one of those soldiers who did several tours out there and lost good friends to those murdering scum.

Quoted from friskneymariner

That's no way to talk about out soldiers.

Disgraceful, shameful comment.

Quoted from 123614

If you had some of your best mates killed out there, and had to endure all the excrement, riots, gun fights, and abuse that I got during my 3 tours of duty there, then I think you might think differently.

I don't likle to belabour the point, but you were out there doing your job. I appreciate it was very difficult for you (and your comrades), and difficult to see the terrorists who were attacking you released at a later date, but that is how peace processes work. There is no alternative, as the Israelis are currently showing. Refusal to consider a two-state solution in Israel/Palestine means that civilians will continue suffer in future decades.

Sacrifices have to be made to have peace, even if unsavoury people end up getting away with their misdeeds.

That's why David Cameron went to apologise to the people of Derry.

Quoted from Maringer

I don't likle to belabour the point, but you were out there doing your job. I appreciate it was very difficult for you (and your comrades), and difficult to see the terrorists who were attacking you released at a later date, but that is how peace processes work. There is no alternative, as the Israelis are currently showing. Refusal to consider a two-state solution in Israel/Palestine means that civilians will continue suffer in future decades.

Sacrifices have to be made to have peace, even if unsavoury people end up getting away with their misdeeds.

You have no idea what you are talking about, you wasn't there, you don't know anything about what we went through,  This entire thread should be closes and moved to non football.

Quoted from 123614

Cannot stand the man. releasing all those murdering scum with the Good Friday Agreement, he should be in jail.

/Black& White Bear mode ON/

What has this got to do with GTFC?

Let's delete this thread, things are miserable  enough surely.

Quoted from friskneymariner

That's why David Cameron went to apologise to the people of Derry.

Over Bloody Sunday?  You do realise that it has been proved that the IRA were the first to fire shots, and are you also aware that when a gunman is shot, sympathisers immediately move in and spirit his weapon away, and say they were innocent, I doubt very much that you do know much about 'The Troubles' at all.

Quoted from HatTrickHero

/Black& White Bear mode ON/

What has this got to do with GTFC?

Let's delete this thread, things are miserable  enough surely.

I wasn't the one who started this thread, so feck off with your Black and White Bear mode.

Quoted from 123614

You have no idea what you are talking about, you wasn't there, you don't know anything about what we went through,  This entire thread should be closes and moved to non football.

I appreciate you and those stationed over there went through hell, however what’s the alternative?  Keep fighting because of the wrong done to you, then keep fighting because of the generations sent afterwards, and so on.  That way the cycle of violence never ends and people keep dying.  Better to come to an accommodation surely, no matter how distasteful people may find it.

Quoted from 123614

I wasn't the one who started this thread, so feck off with your Black and White Bear mode.

No, you feck off with your ramblings, like you tell others to do. Learn the art of debate, don't expect to stretch out every debate until everyone tires of you and you somehow gain 'the win' by getting the last word.
At least this soon to deteriorate group chat has been moved to non footy, so I'm out.

Quoted from 123614

If you had some of your best mates killed out there, and had to endure all the excrement, riots, gun fights, and abuse that I got during my 3 tours of duty there, then I think you might think differently.

That's not the point he's making BAWB.

The GFA has brought a significant period of peace to that area.  Without the agreement, I'm pretty certain we wouldn't have had that.  

I'm no fan of Blair and there's literally hundreds of things to hang him with, but I don't think the GFA is one of them.

Quoted from Brummie Codfather

I appreciate you and those stationed over there went through hell, however what’s the alternative?  Keep fighting because of the wrong done to you, then keep fighting because of the generations sent afterwards, and so on.  That way the cycle of violence never ends and people keep dying.  Better to come to an accommodation surely, no matter how distasteful people may find it.

The IRA are STILL fighting, a Police Officer was shot as recently as March 2023 and in April 2023 there was a petrol bomb attack on police in a police landrover, which they were lucky to escape from.

Also, ask the families of the 1,400 soldiers killed and the 319 policemen killed, not to mention the 1,879 civilians that were also killed by terrorist attacks, if they were in favour of the Good Friday agreement.

Someone has put 50p in the idiot I see.

Quoted from HatTrickHero

No, you feck off with your ramblings, like you tell others to do. Learn the art of debate, don't expect to stretch out every debate until everyone tires of you and you somehow gain 'the win' by getting the last word.
At least this soon to deteriorate group chat has been moved to non footy, so I'm out.

Thank God you are out, and don't tell me to learn how to debate, what do you think is happening in this thread?

Quoted from diehardmariner

That's not the point he's making BAWB.

The GFA has brought a significant period of peace to that area.  Without the agreement, I'm pretty certain we wouldn't have had that.  

I'm no fan of Blair and there's literally hundreds of things to hang him with, but I don't think the GFA is one of them.

There are many, many people who will disagree with that.

Funny how some people like to have a go at me, but make no comment on friskneymariners absolutely disgusting first post he made on here.

Quoted from 123614

The IRA are STILL fighting, a Police Officer was shot as recently as March 2023 and in April 2023 there was a petrol bomb attack on police in a police landrover, which they were lucky to escape from.

Also, ask the families of the 1,400 soldiers killed and the 319 policemen killed, not to mention the 1,879 civilians that were also killed by terrorist attacks, if they were in favour of the Good Friday agreement.

Without the GFA, you can increase those numbers massively.

There are still dickheads out there fighting because they only got 90% of what they wanted in the GFA, but the lives of the vast, vast majority of people in the province are much better for it. Don't look back, look forward. It's not about you, it's about them. If anything, you should feel that the sacrifices made by soldiers out there helped pave the way for the GFA and the peace (of sorts) which it led to.

Quoted from Maringer

Without the GFA, you can increase those numbers massively.

There are still dickheads out there fighting because they only got 90% of what they wanted in the GFA, but the lives of the vast, vast majority of people in the province are much better for it. Don't look back, look forward. It's not about you, it's about them. If anything, you should feel that the sacrifices made by soldiers out there helped pave the way for the GFA and the peace (of sorts) which it led to.

Again, their families might disagree with that.

Quoted from 123614

Again, their families might disagree with that.

and the families that haven't lost anyone since the GFA wouldn't - which is the point others are trying to get into your thick skull

Quoted from Roast Em Bobby

and the families that haven't lost anyone since the GFA wouldn't - which is the point others are trying to get into your thick skull

Pathetic, resorting to insulting comments.

This is solely directed at Band W Bear do not think you only one to serve in theatre I was stationed at Thiepval Barracks and Bishop Court,and I am well aware of the dirty  tactics of all 3 sides.Please go and read the depositions of parachute regiment soldiers to the Saville committee,,These depositions are what led to Soldier F being charged,when the full facts come out I assure you people will be appalled .

Quoted from friskneymariner

This is solely directed at Band W Bear do not think you only one to serve in theatre I was stationed at Thiepval Barracks and Bishop Court,and I am well aware of the dirty  tactics of all 3 sides.Please go and read the depositions of parachute regiment soldiers to the Saville committee,,These depositions are what led to Soldier F being charged,when the full facts come out I assure you people will be appalled .

I don't know why you think that what happened on Bloody Sunday 20 odd years before has anything to do with the GFA.  Just because the Paras, who incidentally were fired at first, returned fire, has nothing whatsoever to do with the GFA.  I don't know if you were involved in any firefights, but I can assure you that in those situations nothing is entirely clear.

Any truth in the rumours we're signing James McClean?

Hope not.

Quoted from friskneymariner

This is solely directed at Band W Bear do not think you only one to serve in theatre I was stationed at Thiepval Barracks and Bishop Court,and I am well aware of the dirty  tactics of all 3 sides.Please go and read the depositions of parachute regiment soldiers to the Saville committee,,These depositions are what led to Soldier F being charged,when the full facts come out I assure you people will be appalled .

I see you were based at RAF Bishop Court and 39 Infantry Brigade in Lisburn.  Was you in the RAF?  I was in an Infantry Regiment.

If Wimbledon had gone to Belfast or even to Dublin, which London club would Milton Keynes have tried to steal/relocate instead?

Sorry for posting on topic btw  

AFC Wimbledon !

I underwent several test and assessments to join the infantry but they found out I wasn't stupid enough.

I asked an army Sargent, who was home on leave, about the cease fire in NI. He asked me what I would call a ceasefire when you are being shot at and Blair's instruction was not to fire back!

I also met a Captain who had served in Kosovo about Blair. He told me his men were to meet with Blair. He received an anonymous call that " Rebels" were in the next valley so off they went. Smiling he said it was a hoax and he, and his men, had missed the meeting with Blair. My impression was he had set the whole thing up.

This is a thread I bet most of us wish we could just erase, or wish we hadn’t seen.  

Quoted from friskneymariner

I underwent several test and assessments to join the infantry but they found out I wasn't stupid enough.

I see, so you was RAF then, right!  I'm guessing that you never had to face 300+ rioters in the Bogside or Creggan, or had a sniper try to kill you then, probably the most frightening thing for you over there was the fact that there was no custard left for your apple pie  at dinner in the Mess.

Quoted from chaos33

This is a thread I bet most of us wish we could just erase, or wish we hadn’t seen.  

You don't have to read it.

Unblocked me!
No, of course I didn’t need to read it, stupid. Posters will click on threads to see what they are about - I did that, like lots of others no doubt,, and it’s just full of unseemly, ugly, angry sentiment, and entrenched peevish dogma from you, as usual, and, since you’re contributing to it substantially, there are inevitable arguments. Does it ever occur to you, that every single discussion or thread you participate in on here leads to you having some sort of stroppy little fall out with poster after poster? Time to play victim yet? Must be imminent.

Quoted from chaos33

Unblocked me!
No, of course I don’t need to read it, stupid. Posters will click on threads to see what they are about - I did that, like lots of others no doubt,, and it’s just full of unseemly, ugly, angry sentiment, and entrenched peevish dogma from you, as usual, and, since you’re contributing to it substantially, there are inevitable arguments. Does it ever occur to you, that every single discussion or thread you participate in on here leads to you having some sort of stroppy little fall out with poster after poster? Time to play victim yet? Must be imminent.

Once again you are wrong.  In my posts I challenge people who either lie, generalise, make assumptions etc.  People don't like that, their problem, not mine.  As for unseemly, ugly. angry dogma, haha, you're having a laugh.  I don't get angry, and the only time I will insult anyone is if I get insulted first.  I suggest you read these posts then think again.  Oh and no, I didn't unblock you, this forum automatically includes the post of the person who quotes.

Quoted from 123614

Once again you are wrong.  In my posts I challenge people who either lie, generalise, make assumptions etc.  People don't like that, their problem, not mine.  As for unseemly, ugly. angry dogma, haha, you're having a laugh.  I don't get angry, and the only time I will insult anyone is if I get insulted first.  I suggest you read these posts then think again.  Oh and no, I didn't unblock you, this forum automatically includes the post of the person who quotes.

‘It’s everyone else, every time, not me’.

BTW chaos, even though I blocked you, I thought at one time that you were one of the more sensible posters.

So anyway, I haven't made any angry or insulting posts here, but I suggest you look at what other posters said.  Azimuth - calling Blair a Madman and dead between the eyes

Yoda [ Calling Blair an odious toad and his wife vile.

friskymariner - Disgusting post referring to British soldiers as murdering scum.

Roast em bobby saying I had a thick skull.

Now this name calling is like water of a ducks back to me, I couldn't give a damn, but it's funny that of all these posts on here you pick on mine which are not in the least angry or insulting to anyone, unless they have insulted me first, it seems to be a trend to have a go at me, when I just state facts or challenge posts.  This is a forum right?  Isn't that what we are allowed to do?   Try reading my posts properly, and tell me I'm wrong.  There is nothing nasty that I have said here or in other posts, people just don't like me, probably because I challenge posts I know are wrong or are a generalisation.  I have debated this thread, nothing more, nothing less.

Quoted from chaos33

‘It’s everyone else, every time, not me’.

Correct, and if you read all the posts, you will see that for yourself.  Or are you going to continue to just attack me whenever I post something you don't like, or when other people attack me too.

Quoted from chaos33

Unblocked me!
No, of course I didn’t need to read it, stupid. Posters will click on threads to see what they are about - I did that, like lots of others no doubt,, and it’s just full of unseemly, ugly, angry sentiment, and entrenched peevish dogma from you, as usual, and, since you’re contributing to it substantially, there are inevitable arguments. Does it ever occur to you, that every single discussion or thread you participate in on here leads to you having some sort of stroppy little fall out with poster after poster? Time to play victim yet? Must be imminent.

Just noticed this, and I am challenging it. So every single thread, absolutely not.  Can you not see that 'every single thread' is a ridiculous statement to make and is one of the things I was referring to?   As for fall outs with poster after poster, again, read the posts and see who actually argues or starts name calling.  Here is a clue.....it's not me.  Victim, probably not, just a person who tells the truth and likes to see other people tell the truth too, if that leads to a debate on here, then all well and good, after all, that's what this forum is for, right?

I said the thread was filled with ‘ugly, angry, unseemly sentiment’. I didn’t say that was exclusively your preserve. You’d expect anything posted by Yoda, or Azimuth etc to be be in that ilk, but your contributions are like the crowning turd on the bilge pile of ‘chip on your shoulder’ peevishness. Seeing so many blithering whoppers in one thread is like looking in on a bunch of bald men fighting over a comb.

Quoted from chaos33

I said the thread was filled with ‘ugly, angry, unseemly sentiment’. I didn’t say that was exclusively your preserve. You’d expect anything posted by Yoda, or Azimuth etc to be be in that ilk, but your contributions are like the crowning turd on the bilge pile of ‘chip on your shoulder’ peevishness. Seeing so many blithering whoppers in one thread is like looking in on a bunch of bald men fighting over a comb.

Go on then, show me.  And please identify which are 'blithering whoppers'.

In he case of bloody Sunday Maj-General McClellan specifically ordered the Paras not to enter the Bogside, this order was blatantly ignored,so much for Army Discipline.

One of the key military figures in the Bloody Sunday killings in Derry in 1972 has died. General Sir Robert Cyril Ford was the British Army’s Commander Land Forces, Northern Ireland in 1972. He was in charge of the military operations during a civil rights march in Derry on January 30, 1972. General Ford gave the order for members of the Parachute Regiment to enter the Bogside area to arrest people.

The Saville report largely absolves General Ford for his decision to deploy the Parachute Regiment into the Bogside, stating that Ford had no reason to know that this decision would result in soldiers firing unjustifiably.

Quoted from chaos33

I said the thread was filled with ‘ugly, angry, unseemly sentiment’. I didn’t say that was exclusively your preserve. You’d expect anything posted by Yoda, or Azimuth etc to be be in that ilk, but your contributions are like the crowning turd on the bilge pile of ‘chip on your shoulder’ peevishness. Seeing so many blithering whoppers in one thread is like looking in on a bunch of bald men fighting over a comb.

And why would you expect anything posted by myself, Yoda to be of the Ilk?
Explain yourself without resorting to your usual name calling,bullying and generalisation.

Chaos, you really are the worst kind of opinionated bully, you have picked me up in the past and used my poor grammer against me in a football thread, accuse people of playing the victim and generally try to belittle individuals who you disagree with.

For reference regarding my Grammer, I am the first to admit it, It is poor, always has been and always will be, I am Dyslexic, that is not playing the victim, its who I am, but that said degrees in Maths and Physics plus a full Chief Engineer cettificate of competancy have made me feel slightly less "thick" and able to make decent progress in life.

You though Chaos, I can only say that you are a condescending bully, a nasty opinionated piece of work who will not use facts in a counter debate, you rely on personal insults, general opinion and what you read in the press without truely knowing anything or finding out about people or their lives, experiences and why they might form an opinion.
Differing to your own.

Of course this is just my view and Im sure you are a lovely non judgmental and open minded chap who is open to debate.

Quoted from 123614

Go on then, show me.  And please identify which are 'blithering whoppers'.

I'm still waiting!

Quoted from 123614

I'm still waiting!

Same, I look forward to the reply.
Can picture Chaos furiously flipping through his Thesourous and dictionary, maybe ChatGBT compiling what he thinks is a smart bottom answer without actually stating any facts but lots of name calling and calling out poor Grammer...or the ILK.

Quoted from 123614

One of the key military figures in the Bloody Sunday killings in Derry in 1972 has died. General Sir Robert Cyril Ford was the British Army’s Commander Land Forces, Northern Ireland in 1972. He was in charge of the military operations during a civil rights march in Derry on January 30, 1972. General Ford gave the order for members of the Parachute Regiment to enter the Bogside area to arrest people.

The Saville report largely absolves General Ford for his decision to deploy the Parachute Regiment into the Bogside, stating that Ford had no reason to know that this decision would result in soldiers firing unjustifiably.

If you are going to quote the Saville Report why don't you quote the depositions of the soldiers of the Parachute Regiment who were very concerned about their colleague's who were running a sweepstake on how many they would kill the next day.The only reason soldier F was charged because his colleague's were appalled by his behaviour.

Colonel Wilford expressly went against orders,and it was stated by David Cameron that the actions were unjustified and unjustifiable is your usual tactic of selectively referencing things to support your case.

Quoted from Azimuth

Same, I look forward to the reply.
Can picture Chaos furiously flipping through his Thesourous and dictionary, maybe ChatGBT compiling what he thinks is a smart bottom answer without actually stating any facts but lots of name calling and calling out poor Grammer...or the ILK.

Stop bullying me.

Quoted from friskneymariner

Colonel Wilford expressly went against orders,and it was stated by David Cameron that the actions were unjustified and unjustifiable is your usual tactic of selectively referencing things to support your case.

The Saville enquiry disagreed.  What don’t you understand that the FACT that the senior Officer, General Ford ordered the Paras into the Bogside to arrest rioters?

It certainly did not,secret memo's reveal that M/G Ford stated that he believed the situation would not be revolved until some of the Young Derry Hooligans were shot .7/8 of those in Bloody Sunday were Young Derry lads M/G Ford was quietly removed in 1973 as is the Armies way ,as was Colonel Wilford who never received another promotion.Bloody Sunday made it significantly harder for all of us who followed and the truth was outed,and even more will be outed in the trial of Soldier F.

Quoted from diehardmariner

That's not the point he's making BAWB.

The GFA has brought a significant period of peace to that area.  Without the agreement, I'm pretty certain we wouldn't have had that.  

I'm no fan of Blair and there's literally hundreds of things to hang him with, but I don't think the GFA is one of them.

Completely agree - his greatest achievement with help from Clinton. In fact, one of the greatest political achievement in my lifetime. Once Upon a Time in Northern Ireland is a must watch to fully understand what was achieved. Johnson, the lying cvnt put it all at risk, I think Sinn Fein have got their eye firmly on a united Ireland by political means now though.

Quoted from Limerick Mariner

Completely agree - his greatest achievement with help from Clinton. In fact, one of the greatest political achievement in my lifetime. Once Upon a Time in Northern Ireland is a must watch to fully understand what was achieved. Johnson, the lying cvnt put it all at risk, I think Sinn Fein have got their eye firmly on a united Ireland by political means now though.

Not forgetting the work of General Castellan who won the trust of all sides.

Is there not a limit to how many posts a single poster can post on a single thread? Seems a bit over the top to post over 2 dozen times on a 6 page thread, especially without mentioning the newspaper article the thread was about......

The idea of a Premiership team in Belfast or Dublin would presumably bring pressure for Rangers and Celtic to join the Premiership too.

And the comments in the article about inevitable relegation and the impact on Northern Irish football seem to forget that a: a rich overseas investor may have bought them, instead of say Leicester, Cardiff or er... Wrexham?  And b: the 'quality' of Northern Irish football!

Would we rather have a uk Premiership than franchise fc in the league?   Suspect the answer is neither!

Quoted from Maringer

Yeah, boo to peace and all that stuff.

A whole generation of folk in Northern Ireland have had a much better life thanks to the GFA, which really was the only possible solution to the problems over there.

The fact that the arseholes on both side of the divide are still bickering shows it wasn't a panacea, but it has done a lot of good. The Brexit clownshoe brigade have done their best to mess it up, but hopefully, the peace will hold despite their shenanigans.

Blair has a lot of things to answer for, but allowing a generation to grow up in more peaceful circumstances isn't one of them.

Not sure you can use the word "peace" in any discussion about Tony Bliar.

The lying, war mongering, murdering girl private.

Quoted from friskneymariner

That's why David Cameron went to apologise to the people of Derry.

Another lying girl private.

Quoted from arryarryarry

Not sure you can use the word "peace" in any discussion about Tony Bliar.

The lying, war mongering, murdering girl private.

Well, the GFA was a peace process, so I think it is relevant.

Just a pity he was so desperate to join in with the Shrub in their little adventure in Iraq - cheered on by most of the political class, including almost all of the Tory Party and pretty much everyone else but the left most part of the Labour Party and the LibDems! A quarter of Labour MPs voted against the invasion. Two (2) Tory MPs voted against it.

As we've already said, plenty of things to criticise Blair for, but trying to get peace in NI isn't one of them.

Quoted from friskneymariner

It certainly did not,secret memo's reveal that M/G Ford stated that he believed the situation would not be revolved until some of the Young Derry Hooligans were shot .7/8 of those in Bloody Sunday were Young Derry lads M/G Ford was quietly removed in 1973 as is the Armies way ,as was Colonel Wilford who never received another promotion.Bloody Sunday made it significantly harder for all of us who followed and the truth was outed,and even more will be outed in the trial of Soldier F.

Are you for real?  All you can come back with is 'secret memos', yeah right, they are bound to be correct!

Quoted from Limerick Mariner

Completely agree - his greatest achievement with help from Clinton. In fact, one of the greatest political achievement in my lifetime. Once Upon a Time in Northern Ireland is a must watch to fully understand what was achieved. Johnson, the lying cvnt put it all at risk, I think Sinn Fein have got their eye firmly on a united Ireland by political means now though.

I wouldn't trust Sinn Fein in a million years, the biggest lying illegitimates in living history, not to mention that their leaders were both members of the IRA back in the 70's and they always backed IRA operations even when innocent men, women and children were killed, they never showed any remorse for those crimes, ever.  You say Johnson is a lying cvunt, not as big a liar as Blair especially over the Iraq war, which we should never have played any part in.

Quoted from ex-merseymariner

Is there not a limit to how many posts a single poster can post on a single thread? Seems a bit over the top to post over 2 dozen times on a 6 page thread, especially without mentioning the newspaper article the thread was about......

The idea of a Premiership team in Belfast or Dublin would presumably bring pressure for Rangers and Celtic to join the Premiership too.

And the comments in the article about inevitable relegation and the impact on Northern Irish football seem to forget that a: a rich overseas investor may have bought them, instead of say Leicester, Cardiff or er... Wrexham?  And b: the 'quality' of Northern Irish football!

Would we rather have a uk Premiership than franchise fc in the league?   Suspect the answer is neither!

No there isn't a limit to posts made, get over yourself.  What do you want, censorship?  It's a public forum, end of story.

Quoted from 123614

No there isn't a limit to posts made, get over yourself.  What do you want, censorship?  It's a public forum, end of story.

It.is a public forum with forum rules posted on a sticky in the main board. I've simply pointed out that you have been excessive (domineering?!) with your number of replies and haven't actually posted ON topic, just made the whole thread about Blair, Northern Ireland, and the troubles, which has played a part in it getting moved to non football.

Thanks for accusing me of censorship by me making what I thought was a valid point worthy of reflection.

Perhaps if you took the trouble to read the whole of the Saville report you would not make these ill informed comments.Go read it in it's entirety not selectively refer to bits out of context that suits your prejudiced and jaundiced agenda.It's on the government website.

Genuine question B and W. I studied the Troubles at university and often wondered about the psychological impact on all involved. I know some fire and police service workers utilise a dark/macabre humour as a coping mechanism. Was this the same for you and your colleagues during tours of Northern Ireland? On reflection, did any of your colleagues fall below the required standards expected of them?

Quoted from ex-merseymariner

It.is a public forum with forum rules posted on a sticky in the main board. I've simply pointed out that you have been excessive (domineering?!) with your number of replies and haven't actually posted ON topic, just made the whole thread about Blair, Northern Ireland, and the troubles, which has played a part in it getting moved to non football.

Thanks for accusing me of censorship by me making what I thought was a valid point worthy of reflection.

Actually it wasn't me who started having a go at Blair, it was someone else.  Also on page 2 of this thread I asked that it be closed, but people carried on, so I did too, which is my right.

Quoted from 123614

Actually it wasn't me who started having a go at Blair, it was someone else.  Also on page 2 of this thread I asked that it be closed, but people carried on, so I did too, which is my right.

You've conveniently ignored that you've made 30+ posts on the thread without posting regarding the initial topic, and you may not have been first to have go but you were very early on.  

Maybe you could post something next relating to the original bbc article, or is that asking too much?

Quoted from smokey111

Genuine question B and W. I studied the Troubles at university and often wondered about the psychological impact on all involved. I know some fire and police service workers utilise a dark/macabre humour as a coping mechanism. Was this the same for you and your colleagues during tours of Northern Ireland? On reflection, did any of your colleagues fall below the required standards expected of them?

Well I can tell you for sure that I ended up with being diagnosed with PTSD because of things I saw and experienced in my tours of NI, and I still suffer from it now.  I am not aware of anyone falling below the required standard in my platoon, which consists of around 30 men, but cannot speak for the other 620 men of my Battalion, except that I do recall on my 5 month tour in the New Lodge, Belfast where I was attached to another company, of one JNCO being taken off foot patrols due to him being found to be taking some kind of medication that wasn't allowed, not illegal drugs.

As for dark humour, 100% yes, the British Army is known for it;s dark humour, especially in situations like N Ireland, it helped you get through the day.

Quoted from ex-merseymariner

You've conveniently ignored that you've made 30+ posts on the thread without posting regarding the initial topic, and you may not have been first to have go but you were very early on.  

Maybe you could post something next relating to the original bbc article, or is that asking too much?

Actually I don't need your suggestions as to what I should post on this forum.  You heard of free speech?  Regardless of what the original topic was, other people took it a different way, and I followed, and also if I make 100 posts on here, its none of your business.  I will continue to post on this thread and answer any post about me, unless GrimRob tells me to stop.

Quoted from 123614

Well I can tell you for sure that I ended up with being diagnosed with PTSD because of things I saw and experienced in my tours of NI, and I still suffer from it now.  

It might be too personal but I think we'd understand you a lot more if you shared your experiences of PTSD

edit: I've just seen you've posted in the mental health thread, so I'll read there
.
2nd edit: "What prompted the PTSD diagnosis was the fact that I was always suspicious at what was going on around me.  I couldn't have people walking up closely behind me, I had to stop and let them pass.  I couldn't travel on public transport, especially when it was full, and also could not attend gatherings of large amounts of people.  I also have to sit facing a door if I am in a café or any other public place so I can see who is coming in, and what they are doing.  To this day, these incidents still happen.  I guess it's a cross I have to bear, but at least I am doing that without taking the medication I was originally prescribed, as that stuff sent me loopy."

Sometimes reading your posts on this forum it does feel like you can be overly aggressive towards people and I feel it might relate to this.

So are you a Psychologist?  Then I am sorry, but you are reading, this, and my other posts wrong. There is no aggression in my posts, unless someone has been aggressive to me first.  I defy you to show me any posts that are aggressive without being attacked first.  You cannot identify emotions from my written text.

I think the point is you see aggression where it doesn't exist. I understand now that it's not your fault but part of your PTSD

Quoted from 123614

I wouldn't trust Sinn Fein in a million years, the biggest lying illegitimates in living history, not to mention that their leaders were both members of the IRA back in the 70's and they always backed IRA operations even when innocent men, women and children were killed, they never showed any remorse for those crimes, ever.  You say Johnson is a lying cvunt, not as big a liar as Blair especially over the Iraq war, which we should never have played any part in.

Johnson said there would be no customs border when he signed an agreement that said there would be - there could not be a more blatant barefaced lie.

I agree we shouldn’t have invaded Iraq with the US. At the time I was still siding with Blair because WMD has been used by Saddam Hussien on the Kurds. Blair put a spin on the evidence, but it was still a probability game - no one knew for certain. I expect Blair deeply regrets this but his motives were to remove a murdering fascist who deliberately slaughtered tens of thousands. People should also remember that the invasion phase wasn’t the problem. Overwhelming force was used but with minimum collateral damage. Total deaths by the time the Coalition was in control of the territory were lower than in Gaza since 7th October  - 13k. 10k Iraqi armed forces 3k civilians. The massive feck up came after - the Coalition disbanded the Iraqi army whose weapons then disappeared into the hands of numerous insurgent groups. If the Coalition had managed Iraq as well as the allies managed the rebuilding of West Germany 1945 onwards would anyone have cared so much about the spinning of evidence of WMDs?

Quoted from Southwark Mariner

I think the point is you see aggression where it doesn't exist. I understand now that it's not your fault but part of your PTSD

I'm not being rude and this is a genuine question.  Are you a Psychologist,  If not, with all due respect, you are not qualified to make that statement?

Quoted from 123614

I'm not being rude and this is a genuine question.  Are you a Psychologist,  If not, with all due respect, you are not qualified to make that statement?

I'm not being rude and this is a genuine question. Are you a Mod?  If not, with all due respect, you are not qualified to deem what should and shouldn't be off-topic.

I’ve disagreed with most of what Black and White Bear has said on this thread but discussing his mental health, without his consent seems pretty distasteful to me.  

Quoted from Brummie Codfather

I’ve disagreed with most of what Black and White Bear has said on this thread but discussing his mental health, without his consent seems pretty distasteful to me.  

Thank you sir.

Quoted from 123614

Thank you sir.

Are you against someone offering an opinion on your mental health post Bear?

Quoted from Sandford1981

Are you against someone offering an opinion on your mental health post Bear?

I would imagine so, but possibly not. B and W has opened up on other pages but let us not stoop to such a level as prodding someone to clarify why they hold such opinions. He is a fairly open book but show the guy a little more respect.

[b][/b]

Quoted from smokey111

I would imagine so, but possibly not. B and W has opened up on other pages but let us not stoop to such a level as prodding someone to clarify why they hold such opinions. He is a fairly open book but show the guy a little more respect.

Rather than take offence on his behalf or assume it’s ok because he’s open, I’ve asked the man himself to clear it up.
My motivation for asking him was so that I didn’t add to what he could perceive as unwarranted attention, no matter how well intentioned it was.

Quoted from Sandford1981

[b][/b]

Rather than take offence on his behalf or assume it’s ok because he’s open, I’ve asked the man himself to clear it up.
My motivation for asking him was so that I didn’t add to what he could perceive as unwarranted attention, no matter how well intentioned it was.

Fair enough. I don't doubt your motivation.

Quoted from Sandford1981

Are you against someone offering an opinion on your mental health post Bear?

Again, with all due respect, I am definitely against being offered various peoples opinions on my mental health, especially if they are not qualified to do so.  Yes I posted how it effected me but that didn't mean I was asking for anyone's help on this forum, unless they were a qualified Psychologist, even then I would need to see proof of their qualifications.  I thank you for your concern, but I have learnt to live with my mental health problems, probably not to a 100% solution, but good enough for me hopefully to enjoy the rest of my life.  

Just as an aside, I am not aggressive on these, or any other forums, I'm sure you understand that it is not possible to determine what frame of mind a person is in just by reading text, people assume a lot of things, but just because they assume something, doesn't mean it's right.

Quoted from 123614

Again, with all due respect, I am definitely against being offered various peoples opinions on my mental health, especially if they are not qualified to do so.  Yes I posted how it effected me but that didn't mean I was asking for anyone's help on this forum, unless they were a qualified Psychologist, even then I would need to see proof of their qualifications.  I thank you for your concern, but I have learnt to live with my mental health problems, probably not to a 100% solution, but good enough for me hopefully to enjoy the rest of my life.  

Just as an aside, I am not aggressive on these, or any other forums, I'm sure you understand that it is not possible to determine what frame of mind a person is in just by reading text, people assume a lot of things, but just because they assume something, doesn't mean it's right.

You may have been asking for help in a round about way in which case I’d have been only too happy to assist (in a practicable manner). The only way to know is to ask. I did. You didn’t need help.

The reason I asked the question was to avoid assuming one way or another and to clear it up! Job done!

I have never been in the army but worked with 3 who did all intelligent guys 2 rose to warrant officers and one who ended up a major.

They all did several tours. of N.Ireland And had few stories to tell which I will not repeat.

BUT just to lighten up this thread,

One bit of advice I will pass on which has got nothing to do with the troubles.

While laying in a ditch overnight in 6 inches of freezing water.

It's a relief in more ways than one when you need to urinate.

I now live in a ‘somewhat’ free Derry/londonderry/maiden city, and after taking a good while to get through this thread, it does indeed raise some interesting points.

Firstly, I played rugby for 4 years with some serving and ex army lads. Indeed, their humour is dark and I would never begin to imagine what they have encountered while serving our country on tour and, also while training at sandhurst. You only have to look at many that are seemingly cast by the wayside and live on the streets, forgotten about by those that they protected, to realise how serious a problem PTSD is.

Secondly, although there are many that want you to believe that the GFA dissolved any tension or animosity between areas, then all you have to do is look around areas of Belfast (shankhill, West Belfast etc) and  Derry (Galiagh, Creggan)to know that there are still those who sympathise with the IRA, real IRA etc and see pro republican flags and walls daubed with graffiti, to know that there is a very vocal faction around. The murders or Lyra McKee and attempted murder of chief inspector John Caldwell, just prove that theory.

Thirdly, 99% people I speak to every day, don’t want a return to the worry that the troubles brought and having the army on the streets or a checkpoint at every corner. Although I didn’t know anything of the ‘actual’ history of the people that it has affected, there are reminders of what can happen when people want change. In Derry alone, the peace bridge is a standing monument to that, the ebrington barracks have become leisure and business hubs and tourism is on the increase bringing in much needed revenue to areas that are being left behind because of the lack of investment from the northern Irish government that haven’t sat at Stormont since 2022, because none of the MLA’s are there to make decisions!

Fourthly, and lastly, we don’t know what is actually going on in peoples lives outside of this forum. Let’s at least keep things to the less trivial matters of football

Happy new year one and all