Fleetwood

Think their magical rise might come to a crashing end very soon …. Never liked them since Vardy scored late against us.


https://www.blackpoolgazette.c.....-month-trial-4150656

https://www.fleetwoodtownfc.com/news/2023/may/statement-andy-pilley/

So can we count this bloke as another 'dodgy' owner ?

Has he been there solve their meteoric rise to fame?

Quoted from aldi_01

Has he been there solve their meteoric rise to fame?

He's invested heavily to take them right through yeah, sure they signed a couple of strikers on daft wages in January to - Morecambe are in a right mess to can see them dropping right through .A lot of clubs unravelling now

There are loads in a mess -
Wigan - regularly can't pay wages dodgy owners
Oxford - massively in debt ,cutting their cloth
Morecambe - unable to pay wages released all their best players
Crawley - some sort of crypto idea , probably in a right mess soon
Notts County - unserviceable debt (13mil) in a mess if ever called in
Fleetwood now it seems
No doubt there are more thats just off the top of my head .

I don't know about you but I'm thankful for JS & AP.

Quoted from Mappers

There are loads in a mess -
Wigan - regularly can't pay wages dodgy owners
Oxford - massively in debt ,cutting their cloth
Morecambe - unable to pay wages released all their best players
Crawley - some sort of crypto idea , probably in a right mess soon
Notts County - unserviceable debt (13mil) in a mess if ever called in
Fleetwood now it seems
No doubt there are more thats just off the top of my head .

Crawley have been on a slippery slope once the lottery money disappeared…they should’ve gone down this year, Hartlepool bottled it though.

Plenty of clubs on their bottom and plenty pretending they’re not but have huge debts and little evidence of any real sustainability…

Quoted from Mappers

There are loads in a mess -
Wigan - regularly can't pay wages dodgy owners
Oxford - massively in debt ,cutting their cloth
Morecambe - unable to pay wages released all their best players
Crawley - some sort of crypto idea , probably in a right mess soon
Notts County - unserviceable debt (13mil) in a mess if ever called in
Fleetwood now it seems
No doubt there are more thats just off the top of my head .

To that list you can add half the clubs in the Championship

Every club is at the mercy of its owners. Be it Fenty, JS + ,AP, Swan and Hilton. It's a lottery for the fans as to how it turns out in the end and that is what needs to change.

Maybe at this rate we will move up through the leagues based on process of elimination as clubs are demoted because of their financial issues .

Keep with the consistent stable strategy , try and sell a few good ones for a bit , and just build slowly as others fall by the wayside .

Arr Paul was made for this prudent and ' keep us shape ' all round.

Quoted from DB

I don't know about you but I'm thankful for JS & AP.

HHHmmm ..Indeed we thank our lucky stars !!
UTM 2023--24

Basically out of the whole premiership and EFL I would doubt if half a dozen clubs are truly solvent, the rest owe money all over the place, even  Brighton who are looked upon as a model club, in theory are a few hundred million in dept, ok it’s to Mr Bloom who currently says he doesn’t want his money back, a sort of “ benign loan”.

Quoted from Gaffer58

Basically out of the whole premiership and EFL I would doubt if half a dozen clubs are truly solvent, the rest owe money all over the place, even  Brighton who are looked upon as a model club, in theory are a few hundred million in dept, ok it’s to Mr Bloom who currently says he doesn’t want his money back, a sort of “ benign loan”.

Indeed. At every level of the game we find club owners willing to invest silly amounts of money to buy success. This pushes wages and transfer fees to such levels that it becomes almost impossible for a sustainably run club to compete. You either have to join the money go round or settle for relative mediocrity. Of course it often ends in tears when the profligate owners tire of flushing their cash down the toilet, leaving clubs in dire straits. But of course by then the circus has moved on to another club.  It’s depressing and I am not sure what the answer is.

There is a simple solution to the benign loan issue large sums of money owed to owners who coukd go rogue at any time and want it back .The football authorities introduce a rules that all money owed to owners be required to be converted to share capital after a certain period 1 2 or 3 years.

Quoted from HerveJosse

There is a simple solution to the benign loan issue large sums of money owed to owners who coukd go rogue at any time and want it back .The football authorities introduce a rules that all money owed to owners be required to be converted to share capital after a certain period 1 2 or 3 years.

They would just find ways around it. Maybe the loan comes from another entity not traceable to the owners. A Cayman Isles corporation for example. I am pretty sure we have seen that kind of thing before.

It's like the Fair Play rules. Want to buy a few more £80 mill players? Just give out 8 year contracts to get round the rules.

At the end of the day the kind of people we are talking about are no strangers to bending the rules and finding loopholes.Even wage caps never work. You just have third parties sponsoring image rights or some other ruse.

20 years ago we completed the last of 17 seasons that we had spent in the Championship over the preceding 22 years. We had a valid claim to be a championship club, albeit one punching above its weight. For most of that time were a well run club, with good players, some of them local.

Sadly I  think those days are gone. For a club of our size to spend several years in the Championship we would need rich owners willing to pump millions and million a year in.  I can't see how a club our size can compete at that level and be sustainable.

It pretty depressing to think about, but the reality may be that League One might now be the highest level we can realistically aspire to be regularly competitive in.    

Quoted from RonMariner

20 years ago we completed the last of 17 seasons that we had spent in the Championship over the preceding 22 years. We had a valid claim to be a championship club, albeit one punching above its weight. For most of that time were a well run club, with good players, some of them local.

Sadly I  think those days are gone. For a club of our size to spend several years in the Championship we would need rich owners willing to pump millions and million a year in.  I can't see how a club our size can compete at that level and be sustainable.

It pretty depressing to think about, but the reality may be that League One might now be the highest level we can realistically aspire to be regularly competitive in.    

During the two stints we had in the now championship we had ,

Moore bros, Ford, Drinkell, Wilkinson, Lund, all local lads plus Cumming, Croft, from the juniors with the odd class player like Futcher, Wymark and Nichol making us a well balance side.

Today we need more juniors coming through so we need only to sign two or three players to have a strong side.

Otherwise L1 would be out level.

Quoted from grimsby pete

During the two stints we had in the now championship we had ,

Moore bros, Ford, Drinkell, Wilkinson, Lund, all local lads plus Cumming, Croft, from the juniors with the odd class player like Futcher, Wymark and Nichol making us a well balance side.

Today we need more juniors coming through so we need only to sign two or three players to have a strong side.

Otherwise L1 would be out level.

The modern academy system makes that number of such high quality young players coming through for us impossible Pete, any young player showing such promise at a young age can be claimed by a tier 1 academy team for literally next to nothing. So even if we did have such a miracle in terms of the numbers and quality of youngsters they wouldn't be playing for us by 18 anyway.

Being competitive in the Championship is now almost impossible unless you have spent time in the EPL and have parachute payments coming in. It should be no surprise that there are teams yo-yoing between the 2 as they're not good enough for the EPL but too good for the Championship as they're buying players that others can only dream of.

The Luton v Coventry play off final actually backs this up - Luton finished 11 points behind Sheff Utd, Coventry 21 points! Add on another 10 for how far they were behind Burnley. So a team could get promoted who were 31 points worse than the champions.

In our division there were only 8 points between automatic promotion and the last play off place. 16 between the champions and the last play off place.

I think I would take us being higher end league 2  with the odd season in league 1 if it means the club is never in any jeopardy, running at a minor loss and making continuous improvement off the pitch as well as on it  .

The reality is the game has changed so much in the period we stood still it would take us longer and a silly amount of money to go through to The Champ - I would not say it's impossible we could get back but think it would take a decade at least with all the variables .

I would much rather us focus on retaining Hurst long term (I know the football is not always easy on the eye ) implementing a set structure to the playing side of the operation  and sticking with it .

Get the training ground , a new larger fan zone and spruce up BP if it's not viable to move ; maybe even try and make it a community project that people can be involved in.

I would love to see us try and keep ticket pricing reasonable - Mansfield,Bradford ,Morecambe and Accrington all offer season tickets in or around £200 for an adult and silly cheap for youngsters ; I am not saying to that level, but maybe trying to lower it a bit ,especially for younger fans at some point would be good .

It's nice to see the pitch getting some love to , people would always say we had one of the best pitches in the leagues , but it seemed to take a turn , even though it would have been comedy watching Honest John and Wraith trying to operate a tractor it probably didn't do the pitch any favours maybe even a mountain out of a molehill .

We have had a great couple of years ,I enjoy us being an unfashionable lower league club.It makes nights like the Southampton one's sweeter and days like the Brighton one special (even if we did get pumped )

They can shove the Premiership and Championship up their arses we will just beat them in the cups ,roll on the FA Cup Semi final next year

UTMM
Neil

I think getting into the Championship is certainly possible by steady build up over a few seasons, but staying there more than 1 season would be another thing altogether without throwing silly money at it.

Quoted from Gaffer58

Basically out of the whole premiership and EFL I would doubt if half a dozen clubs are truly solvent, the rest owe money all over the place, even  Brighton who are looked upon as a model club, in theory are a few hundred million in dept, ok it’s to Mr Bloom who currently says he doesn’t want his money back, a sort of “ benign loan”.

Has he written the debt off in his head.... just like our former principal funder claimed to have done?  😏

Regarding how far we can progress I think it will depend on who the next owners will be.

I think I've heard mention that the current owners would want hand over the club in good shape, paying its way and with a restored reputation in the Football League.

It is clear they are not the sort of people to sell for the sake of it, and I think they will look to sell to people who can take us further.

It will be both interesting and exciting to see how it all pans out, but it is worth remembering that so many clubs who have gone from strength to strength (and some who went backwards again) were often in a worse starting position than us. Momentum plays a big part so let's hope we can challenge next season.

Quoted from RonMariner

Indeed. At every level of the game we find club owners willing to invest silly amounts of money to buy success. This pushes wages and transfer fees to such levels that it becomes almost impossible for a sustainably run club to compete. You either have to join the money go round or settle for relative mediocrity. Of course it often ends in tears when the profligate owners tire of flushing their cash down the toilet, leaving clubs in dire straits. But of course by then the circus has moved on to another club.  It’s depressing and I am not sure what the answer is.

Very true but the formation of the Premiersh*t totally change the financial dynamic. Attaining the guaranteed yearly subsidy from television created the Holy Grail of top flight football. This has now percolated down through the whole Football League pyramid.

Quoted from rancido

Very true but the formation of the Premiersh*t totally change the financial dynamic. Attaining the guaranteed yearly subsidy from television created the Holy Grail of top flight football. This has now percolated down through the whole Football League pyramid.

It’s a funny one for me, I’ve said for a long while that football often mirrors society. We live in a world where we’re told that more money means greater success, increased happiness etc when in truth, we know, because research tells us that the things we crave don’t have a value, care, love, happiness and so forth are free and lots of money dies not mean lots of success…

Since the advent of the premier league, actually winning something has ceased to really mean anything to most clubs, it’s simply a race to stay up…the higher up means more money…apparently that is success.

I don’t dislike the premier league, they’ll believe they’ve achieved what they set out to do, and let’s not kid ourselves, football wasn’t all rosey prior to the premier league. There are aspects of top flight football I don’t like but equally, I just take the games on face value some times…

I think clubs like Fleetwood will ultimately have their issue’s because one thing they’ll forever struggle with is interest and crowds. At our level that is important or at least an interest locally, something often lacking at say Fleetwood or Crawley for instance. The money dries up, investment decreases and eventually the clubs plateau after a period of promotions…

Quoted from aldi_01

It’s a funny one for me, I’ve said for a long while that football often mirrors society. We live in a world where we’re told that more money means greater success, increased happiness etc when in truth, we know, because research tells us that the things we crave don’t have a value, care, love, happiness and so forth are free and lots of money dies not mean lots of success…

Since the advent of the premier league, actually winning something has ceased to really mean anything to most clubs, it’s simply a race to stay up…the higher up means more money…apparently that is success.

I don’t dislike the premier league, they’ll believe they’ve achieved what they set out to do, and let’s not kid ourselves, football wasn’t all rosey prior to the premier league. There are aspects of top flight football I don’t like but equally, I just take the games on face value some times…

I think clubs like Fleetwood will ultimately have their issue’s because one thing they’ll forever struggle with is interest and crowds. At our level that is important or at least an interest locally, something often lacking at say Fleetwood or Crawley for instance. The money dries up, investment decreases and eventually the clubs plateau after a period of promotions…

The Premiersh*t was created for the few, not the many. It was created out of greed and a total lack of regard for any other teams in the Football League or in the whole FA pyramid.

I agree that the premier league has given fans/supporters/owners a state of unsurpassable (unsustainable?) greed within the elite clubs in this country. There now won’t be a season where the big 6 (plus probably 4 others) won’t have to worry about falling into the championship. But, what it does mean, is that other big city clubs, one could argue the less financially supported clubs, will be looking over their shoulders at the trap door into the championship.

The yo-yo clubs, Leeds Watford forest sheff Utd Sunderland Middlesbrough etc, don’t lack support but don’t have the money that their counterparts are privileged to. Everton are now having to worry most seasons about falling into the second tier yet, they have the resources that many don’t. All you have to do is look at the 52000 all seater stadium being built.

Maybe the blueprint that the bundesligue have is the way forward. The 50+1 initiative gives supporters more power in THEIR club and more decisions in what happens. Of course teams like Leipzig, as we all know are supported massively by Red Bull, but it is ultimately a fans club therefore reducing heavily the impact that the Russian/American/Middle East owners have on the wellbeing of the club as a whole.

I personally am happy where the club sit at the moment. Rock steady foundations with an ownership that is led by passion for the club, not wealth induced or some sort of modern day version of a computer game. At our level, wrexhams financial supremacy I would think will take them straight through into league 1. The same could be said for gillingham who it now appears are ‘rolling in it’! Where is their limit though? Only time will tell. But, as an exile, I much prefer going to a game where you bump into the same faces that have been there for years over the newly founded fan base of glory supporters. Mid table league 2 isn’t our dream or our hopes, but look at where we were 2 years ago. Playing in a play off final that had seen ‘little old Grimsby’ beat teams against the odds with a never say die attitude.

So proud to be, GTFC. Never has a song rung so true through our 100 year old stadium.

UTFM

Quoted from rancido

The Premiersh*t was created for the few, not the many. It was created out of greed and a total lack of regard for any other teams in the Football League or in the whole FA pyramid.

I don’t disagree, I’m just ambivalent to it all to be honest. I’ve always said that the introduction of VAR was genius in some respects; introduce something to allegedly improve the game, it doesn’t and just becomes a focus, meanwhile all the dodgy excrement, betting, FFP, complex contracts to avoid tax and bend the rules, inherent racism and so on can confuse under the radar.

Only yesterday we saw Newcastle celebrate finishing third, well third or fourth like they’ve won a trophy (ironic that they had a chance to actually win something and they bottled it) and we’re meant to be celebrating a club like Newcastle getting into the champions league…got to ignore the human rights atrocities carried out by their owners though, what’s a few dead folk, chopped off hands and continued bombing of vulnerable countries if you get to play Real Madrid?

Quoted from Mappers

I think I would take us being higher end league 2  with the odd season in league 1 if it means the club is never in any jeopardy, running at a minor loss and making continuous improvement off the pitch as well as on it  .

The reality is the game has changed so much in the period we stood still it would take us longer and a silly amount of money to go through to The Champ - I would not say it's impossible we could get back but think it would take a decade at least with all the variables .

I would much rather us focus on retaining Hurst long term (I know the football is not always easy on the eye ) implementing a set structure to the playing side of the operation  and sticking with it .

Get the training ground , a new larger fan zone and spruce up BP if it's not viable to move ; maybe even try and make it a community project that people can be involved in.

I would love to see us try and keep ticket pricing reasonable - Mansfield,Bradford ,Morecambe and Accrington all offer season tickets in or around £200 for an adult and silly cheap for youngsters ; I am not saying to that level, but maybe trying to lower it a bit ,especially for younger fans at some point would be good .

It's nice to see the pitch getting some love to , people would always say we had one of the best pitches in the leagues , but it seemed to take a turn , even though it would have been comedy watching Honest John and Wraith trying to operate a tractor it probably didn't do the pitch any favours maybe even a mountain out of a molehill .

We have had a great couple of years ,I enjoy us being an unfashionable lower league club.It makes nights like the Southampton one's sweeter and days like the Brighton one special (even if we did get pumped )

They can shove the Premiership and Championship up their arses we will just beat them in the cups ,roll on the FA Cup Semi final next year

UTMM

Neil

In the words of " Meatloaf"
You took the words right out of my mouth!
With regards to your to your last 2 sentences.

UTM 2023--24.