Why we struggle to compete...

[url]https://www.leaderlive.co.uk/news/23466202.wrexham-new-kop-stand-gets-25m-boost-wrexham-council/[/url]

That adds circa £100k to potential matchday revenue for Wrexham from ticket sales alone, and they are likely to sell alot as season tickets, they could be adding hospitality as well. And we have a whole side of our ground comprising 2200 cramped seats, with about of them 400 restricted view, prime position taken by a police box, appalling toilet provision and very little food and beverage sales frontage.

This isn't a criticism of 1878 BTW, just an illustration of the challenge they face to make GTFC competitive at even just League 2 level.

Aside from their owners having a much more aggressive growth strategy than ours due to the wealth and commercial appeal that comes with Hollywood owners, they also have a council that isn't spunking millions on a shopping centre that can't be saved.

I think this is a wonderful vision of how Wrexham Council see the future and back it. On the other hand, our council have done little to help GTFC.

Invested money in a dead cow, top town. These centres are now part of the past and the council should look to the future; such as the scheme that wants to put a relief road from Great Coates to Morrisons. That could not only involve housing but a new community stadium for GTFC and businesses to relocate.

Ok it's going to cost millions, but about £30 million is going on top town; so there is money there. It's how they spend it and supporting the past is not going to help the future.

Unsurprisingly the headline’s a bit misleading, but it does go to show what can be achieved with the support of local politicians and partners. Wrexham also benefit from being uniquely positioned as the only real team in north wales, and a significant focus of the larger scheme is providing a gateway to the town and enable events like international football to take place. They’re also proposing to use the Racecourse as a concert venue, they’ve got Kings of Leon playing there this summer, so it all feeds into the use of the site outside of just a football ground.

The redevelopment of the Kop was meant to cost about £16m I read, so would be interested to see how much of that £25m ends up specifically on that rather than the wider regeneration works.

They, and everyone else, has the massive advantage of not having to work with bungling North East Lincs council.

We should remember also, and this is something the new owners are attempting to change, that the support for the club within the town has never been huge and often, at best, luke warm. During the height of Buckley’s tenure the gates steadily dropped prompting Arthur Mann to remark: “Sometimes we really do wonder whether all our efforts are worth it.”

This is going to go down like a lead balloon but here goes...

I've been living in the Leeds area for the past 15 years and working in the city centre for the last 10.

It's a city surrounded by out-of-town retail parks, like White Rose, but the city centre during the week and at weekends is as busy as ever.

It's unrecognisable from what it was back in the mid-2000s, which isn't that long ago.

They've developed Granary Wharf and are now building loads of new flats, accommodation and shops next door at Mustard Wharf, close to where the canal and train station meet.

I'm a Meggie, I never saw myself living and working in Leeds when I was younger but I've gotta be honest, I visited Grimsby a couple of weeks ago and it left me feeling very empty.

I can project memories over what it is now, but for my wife who isn't from there, it just looked what it was: a dead end. Loads of closed shops, hardly any people, no kids hanging out there, despite it being the Easter holiday.

Leeds city council have invested loads in data, it's grown from a financial hub into a digital city of excellence, and while I'm all for their football club failing I have to say it's not a dirty slum as we may have sung about them in the past. It's anything but.

It's also not perfect, but you can see how the city is constantly developing, it never rests. The council are investing, which invites so many more companies to do the same. It's snowballing and it's come out the other side of the pandemic stronger than it was going into it.

Also, I'd add that when football clubs in geographically isolated locations fall on hard times, it's harder for them to get back to where they were.

While we were in the Championship, we could attract decent players because we could pay them more than Scunny, for example. It wouldn't have been top Championship wages, obviously, but given the choice they'd get more money and play in a higher division than Scunny, Lincoln, Hull, Mansfield, Donny etc.

Once we hit rock bottom, even if we could have somehow competed financially with those above, players wouldn't choose to travel further to play lower.

We all know location doesn't play into our hands, so we have to be better in two other ways: pay more money, play in higher divisions. Then location is almost taken out of the equation.

Right now, if we offered the same wages as Donny, I'd dare say the player would choose Donny. Same division, both mid-table, same cash... Donny's probably closer to home for said player (on balance).

If we edge our way into L1, suddenly we'll win that sort of player over. Further for them to travel, but higher league to play in (with a bit more cash).

Possibly all very obvious. But we could have gone the way of Barrow, Workington, Scarborough, etc. Non-league, unless you have cash like Wrexham or even Solihull, is a great leveller. We could have levelled out down there. Our only advantage was our history of being a 'league' team in name.

Cash would have been average - not enough to uproot your family - standard would still be non-league, location wouldn't ever be an advantage unless you were from round these parts.

Eternally grateful that we got out of there when we did.

I get really drunk off with this kind of “ooh look at what they’re doing” thread.  

Looking over the fence and comparing our lot with incomparable situations at other clubs is pointless.

We had 20 years of decline under JSF and actually we’re on a decent road to recovery without 1878 waving their c0cks in the air shouting “look at us aren’t we great”.

Quoted from RichMariner

This is going to go down like a lead balloon but here goes...

Completely agree with the sentiment, but it really is comparing apples with oranges looking at the differences between Leeds and NE Lincs.

Quoted from ska face

Completely agree with the sentiment, but it really is comparing apples with oranges looking at the differences between Leeds and NE Lincs.

Yup.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_Leeds

Technically the country's second largest city behind Birmingham (ignoring London due to the local government set up).

It's comparing an apple to a box full of oranges for size alone and that doesn't consider location and so forth. There are 60,000 further education students living in the City, including thousands from abroad!

Used to go to Leeds in the 80's to buy records It was a rough as hell.  Get in, buy the vinyl and get out.  Went in the late 90's for a job interview.  It was a completely different place.   They'd revamped the old Victorian arcades. There was a buzz and people had jobs and any place that has folks with money in their back bin makes it a happier place.  Leeds is much better located than Gy but we have to start with what we are and where we are. We have to take more pride in the place. We can't even have a statue of our founder without it getting destroyed.  Gy has two great museums and Cleethorpes has a lot to offer , especially in the summer. I've lived in much worse places in the UK.  We need to big it up and stop the chavs and idiots destroying it and its reputation. Grimsby town centre needs revamping.  I am not sure how but we somehow need to revitalise it.  

Quoted from Mayaman

Used to go to Leeds in the 80's to buy records It was a rough as hell.  Get in, buy the vinyl and get out.  Went in the late 90's for a job interview.  It was a completely different place.   They'd revamped the old Victorian arcades. There was a buzz and people had jobs and any place that has folks with money in their back bin makes it a happier place.  Leeds is much better located than Gy but we have to start with what we are and where we are. We have to take more pride in the place. We can't even have a statue of our founder without it getting destroyed.  Gy has two great museums and Cleethorpes has a lot to offer , especially in the summer. I've lived in much worse places in the UK.  We need to big it up and stop the chavs and idiots destroying it and its reputation. Grimsby town centre needs revamping.  I am not sure how but we somehow need to revitalise it.  

I used to sell records in Leeds in the 80’s, it was a pretty good place to work evern then, though it’s a lot cleaner now.

Like I kind of noted before not sure how you can compare Leeds to Grimsby, ones a place for various reasons where a few want to be the other is a place for different reasons where lots of people want to be.

Quoted from Dodorondon

We should remember also, and this is something the new owners are attempting to change, that the support for the club within the town has never been huge and often, at best, luke warm. During the height of Buckley’s tenure the gates steadily dropped prompting Arthur Mann to remark: “Sometimes we really do wonder whether all our efforts are worth it.”

You mean like gates at Bolton, Blackburn, Burnley, Rotherham, Chesterfield, Doncaster and loads of others fell off a cliff in the 1980s until they either built new stadia or completely revamped and modernised their existing grounds…

I think what RichMariner was getting at was the difference between the two councils, one forward thinking the other sat on their hands not wanting change, like as if they just can't be arsed.  

I completely get Rich's post as that's how I feel when I visit my parents from Lincoln, and every time I past the old Birds Eye location nothing has changed, it saddens me being a proud Grimsbarian / Grimsby lad.

Quoted from Meza

I think what RichMariner was getting at was the difference between the two councils, one forward thinking the other sat on their hands not wanting change, like as if they just can't be arsed.  

I completely get Rich's post as that's how I feel when I visit my parents from Lincoln, and every time I past the old Birds Eye location nothing has changed, it saddens me being a proud Grimsbarian / Grimsby lad.

This is exactly it. I appreciate Grimsby and Leeds are vastly different in so many ways.

But both have councils.

One has an ambition, an investment strategy, a passion to take opportunities to grow and thrive.

The other seems to have no idea whatsoever.

I'm not saying Grimsby could be like Leeds because it never will. But the fact remains that with an ambition and investment in the right areas, at the right time, it could improve Grimsby into something more than it currently is. What Leeds city centre offers now is very different from what it offered just 5-10 years ago. They use data to decide where bus lanes go, they have data to calculate footfall in certain areas, they have advertising space exactly where it will be seen most. And this is just skimming the surface.

When I walked along Cleethorpes prom I saw signs on the ground for a palm tree that wasn't even there.

Thing is, what is happening at local councils is a reflection of wider trends across the country, similar in a way to what you see in football clubs. Resources, money, knowledge, qualified/talented people get pulled and pooled into major cities and smaller, less well resourced areas are left with scraps.

Local authorities have been cut to the absolute bare bones in the last 15 years, so unless you have a local knowledge economy that sustains innovative ways of working, alongside social benefits that attract certain demographics, a housing mix that suits, etc etc etc, then you’re going to be struggling. I work for a LA and a starting salary for my role is about £21k-£22k, I saw an advert for the essentially an entry level position in Liverpool at £29k-£31k earlier this week. Smaller councils can’t compete with that level of spending and so higher quality candidates end up working in bigger cities.

That’s not to say that nothing can be done, but there’s a lack of political will given the absolute dearth of talent or forward thinking by NELC councillors. You only have to look at how Fenty ended up as portfolio holder for regeneration, skills and housing - a man comically underqualified for such a role - to see why NELC are really lagging behind.

Quoted from ska face

Thing is, what is happening at local councils is a reflection of wider trends across the country, similar in a way to what you see in football clubs. Resources, money, knowledge, qualified/talented people get pulled and pooled into major cities and smaller, less well resourced areas are left with scraps.

Local authorities have been cut to the absolute bare bones in the last 15 years, so unless you have a local knowledge economy that sustains innovative ways of working, alongside social benefits that attract certain demographics, a housing mix that suits, etc etc etc, then you’re going to be struggling. I work for a LA and a starting salary for my role is about £21k-£22k, I saw an advert for the essentially an entry level position in Liverpool at £29k-£31k earlier this week. Smaller councils can’t compete with that level of spending and so higher quality candidates end up working in bigger cities.

That’s not to say that nothing can be done, but there’s a lack of political will given the absolute dearth of talent or forward thinking by NELC councillors. You only have to look at how Fenty ended up as portfolio holder for regeneration, skills and housing - a man comically underqualified for such a role - to see why NELC are really lagging behind.

Excellent post and spot on.

Quoted from RichMariner

This is going to go down like a lead balloon but here goes...

I've been living in the Leeds area for the past 15 years and working in the city centre for the last 10.

It's a city surrounded by out-of-town retail parks, like White Rose, but the city centre during the week and at weekends is as busy as ever.

It's unrecognisable from what it was back in the mid-2000s, which isn't that long ago.

They've developed Granary Wharf and are now building loads of new flats, accommodation and shops next door at Mustard Wharf, close to where the canal and train station meet.

I'm a Meggie, I never saw myself living and working in Leeds when I was younger but I've gotta be honest, I visited Grimsby a couple of weeks ago and it left me feeling very empty.

I can project memories over what it is now, but for my wife who isn't from there, it just looked what it was: a dead end. Loads of closed shops, hardly any people, no kids hanging out there, despite it being the Easter holiday.

Leeds city council have invested loads in data, it's grown from a financial hub into a digital city of excellence, and while I'm all for their football club failing I have to say it's not a dirty slum as we may have sung about them in the past. It's anything but.

It's also not perfect, but you can see how the city is constantly developing, it never rests. The council are investing, which invites so many more companies to do the same. It's snowballing and it's come out the other side of the pandemic stronger than it was going into it.

Compare Leeds with Bradford 10 mikes down the road . When I studied and worked in both 40 years ago the two cities were on a par now one is a booming modern city and the other is a shithole. Local government is part of the reason for the difference but not all both fall within West Yorkshire . The mass exodus of young well educated people capable of developing modern businesses from North East Lincs over the last 30 years is a significant reason for its decline and once the spiral starts it’s difficult to see what stops the decline . Opening up university entry to 50% plus of school leavers had the unintended consequence of shafting places like Grimsby. Lincoln by contrast had the foresight to develop a university which was arguably Mickey Mouse at first but is now quite highly regarded fed and has generated the redevelopment of the City

Grimsby is like many seaside places is struggling.  Change of holiday plans for Blackpool etc.  Cannot rest on past glories (fishing for us).

Major capital investment needed from government and maybe with some private money with government incentives.

Corby was a big steelworks that has reinvented itself.  

Grimsby hasn’t.  One disincentive is our remote geographical location.  A barrier to growth.

The only way to overcome this is to be smarter, have good ideas, be more innovative and work harder to attract investment than other similar places.

The area should be lower cost than some places.

Quoted from HerveJosse

Compare Leeds with Bradford 10 mikes down the road . When I studied and worked in both 40 years ago the two cities were on a par now one is a booming modern city and the other is a shithole. Local government is part of the reason for the difference but not all both fall within West Yorkshire . The mass exodus of young well educated people capable of developing modern businesses from North East Lincs over the last 30 years is a significant reason for its decline and once the spiral starts it’s difficult to see what stops the decline . Opening up university entry to 50% plus of school leavers had the unintended consequence of shafting places like Grimsby. Lincoln by contrast had the foresight to develop a university which was arguably Mickey Mouse at first but is not quite highly regarded fed and has generated the redevelopment of the City

Bradford gets a bad rap, not entirely without good cause, but like anywhere it has good areas and bad, and the city centre has improved over the course of the last 10 - 15 years. The ethnic diversity of Bradford is actually the product of the textile industry there still thriving, comparatively speaking, in the 50s and 60s when there was a shortage of low-skilled workers in the country, and whatever your views on that, it changed the future dynamic of the city versus neighbouring Leeds.

I moved to Leeds in 2006 and it has, as others have pointed out, changed beyond recognition in that time. It has successfully ploughed on through the 2008 financial crisis and the pandemic, though it is worth pointing out that it has not been immune to the decline in bricks and mortar retail. I was in the aforementioned White Rose Centre last night and there is a long row of vacant retail units, whilst in the heart of the city centre the large shells left behind by the likes of Debenhams and House of Fraser will never by occupied by retail ever again - they are being repurposed into student housing.

Despite that, it has definitely been a beneficiary of good decision making, and if it was in the early stages of a digital revolution when I first moved here it is very much enjoying somewhat of a renaissance period now. It’s a great place to work and live for young people; at almost 38, I am somewhat of an old dog in the digital / tech space.

But you cannot get away from the fact that it was already a major urban population, conveniently located with good external travel links (despite diabolically poor internal public transport systems). It has created an identify for itself, and offers a great balance of working opportunity, amenities and cost of living (house prices are roughly 85% higher than those in NE Lincs, but still only a third of those in London). NE Lincs fares well on the cost of living front, but only because it lacks the other two fundamental components - opportunities and things to do.

What’s the solution to that? We can’t move it. It needs reinventing. I would love nothing more than to see the revolution in renewable energy being the catalyst for growth and opportunity in the area. Time will tell, but without prosperity within the community local authorities will remain depressingly austere - both financially and in terms of talent.

Regrettably, I suspect the wider fate of the town is intrinsically linked to our hopes of moving to a new stadium in the future. We’re going to have to play the long game.

Some really excellent points on this thread.

You'll not meet anyone prouder of Grimsby and Cleethorpes as me. I bloody love the place and will argue with anyone about how glorious it is.  But having moved deeper into Lincolnshire a year ago, it does make you realise upon returning what the area is lacking.  It's not just a lick of paint that we're behind everyone else, we're flipping miles behind everyone else!

The most frustrating thing is that we ignore the biggest asset we've got, our water!!  The area around the Brayford in Lincoln is hustle, bustle and a hive of activity.  Yet it's bloody tiny.  You can echo this sentiment at so many town and cities who have capitalised on what assets they've got at their disposal, regardless of how big or small they are.
We've got so much opportunity to work with that yet we completely ignore it.

One example - Paddleboarding.  It's got massive over the last few years, probably a Lockdown knock-on with people looking more at staying closer to home etc.  You ventured down the seafront on a remotely nice day with the tide in and it was packed with 'boarders.   You've got a local company in Ebb & Flo who were begging for a bit of support to help capitalise on that....nah, not for us. https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/news/grimsby-news/ebb--flo-watersports-centre-8040025

There is so much potential to do something with the water in front of us, right from the Fitties/Tetney Marshes right along the front, beyond the North Prom, through the Dock and into the Freshney.  Yet we can't even support local businesses doing something off their own back.

We're not Leeds, we're a relatively small town that's cut off from the rest of the country.  But the comparison between attitudes is completely valid.  We're not forward thinking, we're insular and we're frightened of change.  Until that mindset shifts the area will just continuing to fall further behind.

Quoted from diehardmariner

Some really excellent points on this thread.

You'll not meet anyone prouder of Grimsby and Cleethorpes as me. I bloody love the place and will argue with anyone about how glorious it is.  But having moved deeper into Lincolnshire a year ago, it does make you realise upon returning what the area is lacking.  It's not just a lick of paint that we're behind everyone else, we're flipping miles behind everyone else!

The most frustrating thing is that we ignore the biggest asset we've got, our water!!  The area around the Brayford in Lincoln is hustle, bustle and a hive of activity.  Yet it's bloody tiny.  You can echo this sentiment at so many town and cities who have capitalised on what assets they've got at their disposal, regardless of how big or small they are.
We've got so much opportunity to work with that yet we completely ignore it.

One example - Paddleboarding.  It's got massive over the last few years, probably a Lockdown knock-on with people looking more at staying closer to home etc.  You ventured down the seafront on a remotely nice day with the tide in and it was packed with 'boarders.   You've got a local company in Ebb & Flo who were begging for a bit of support to help capitalise on that....nah, not for us. https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/news/grimsby-news/ebb--flo-watersports-centre-8040025

There is so much potential to do something with the water in front of us, right from the Fitties/Tetney Marshes right along the front, beyond the North Prom, through the Dock and into the Freshney.  Yet we can't even support local businesses doing something off their own back.

We're not Leeds, we're a relatively small town that's cut off from the rest of the country.  But the comparison between attitudes is completely valid.  We're not forward thinking, we're insular and we're frightened of change.  Until that mindset shifts the area will just continuing to fall further behind.

This sadly, is absent spot on, what a joy it would be to get a forward thinking council, who when given grants and money, do not fritter it away and waste it.

There always seems to be a factor that holds the town back and that is the lack of vision from the council, which has been the case for years regardless of the political make up of it.

Redevelopment in other cities and areas has always needed the local council to have a clear vision of what they want to achieve and that vision has always been ambitious and aspirational. Often a separate body has been formed to deliver the vision and not get bogged down in politics.

It feels 'very Grimsby' that the council are putting money into the precinct, flogging a dead horse rather than using the opportunity to think bigger.

I don't know if Grimsby's budget is smaller than equivalent areas or what.

An earlier poster suggested that the long term regeneration of the town may be tied to the future of the football club. That worries me...the football club can be a catalyst for change and can be a focal point for regeneration in a given geographical area but the regeneration of Grimsby can't be tied to a football club. It has come from a vision and an aspiration for the whole area.

Quoted from HerveJosse

Compare Leeds with Bradford 10 mikes down the road . When I studied and worked in both 40 years ago the two cities were on a par now one is a booming modern city and the other is a shithole. Local government is part of the reason for the difference but not all both fall within West Yorkshire . The mass exodus of young well educated people capable of developing modern businesses from North East Lincs over the last 30 years is a significant reason for its decline and once the spiral starts it’s difficult to see what stops the decline . Opening up university entry to 50% plus of school leavers had the unintended consequence of shafting places like Grimsby. Lincoln by contrast had the foresight to develop a university which was arguably Mickey Mouse at first but is now quite highly regarded fed and has generated the redevelopment of the City

Let's not hold Lincoln up as some grandly ambitious forward-thinking council, the 2 universities have happened largely by themselves.  This is the council that's scrapping the Xmas market after all.

Quoted from OddShapedBalls

This is the council that's scrapping the Xmas market after all.

To be fair to Lincoln, several cities have, including…Leeds.

Quoted from Knut Anders Fosters Voles

To be fair to Lincoln, several cities have, including…Leeds.

And this may not be due to a lack of vision.

There is nothing more miserable in the run up to Christmas than sheltering from the freezing rain with your cup of eye wateringly expensive faux gluwhein while across the road the local Wetherspoons pumps out Slade at 'jet taking off' volume. And as you dodge the acres of flesh and false tan you are expected to buy authentic Alpine Christmas gifts like 20 quid wooden tree decorations and eat traditional fayre like churros. As the night wears on the dodging of flesh and fake tan gives way to avoiding the vomit and altercations between men children who are 'aving it.

And pretend that you are in Salzburg or Munich. But you're not, you're in Doncaster.

(or Birmingham, the Birmingham Christmas Fair is especially spirit crushing)

Quoted from RichMariner

This is exactly it. I appreciate Grimsby and Leeds are vastly different in so many ways.

But both have councils.

One has an ambition, an investment strategy, a passion to take opportunities to grow and thrive.

The other seems to have no idea whatsoever.

I'm not saying Grimsby could be like Leeds because it never will. But the fact remains that with an ambition and investment in the right areas, at the right time, it could improve Grimsby into something more than it currently is. What Leeds city centre offers now is very different from what it offered just 5-10 years ago. They use data to decide where bus lanes go, they have data to calculate footfall in certain areas, they have advertising space exactly where it will be seen most. And this is just skimming the surface.

When I walked along Cleethorpes prom I saw signs on the ground for a palm tree that wasn't even there.

To be fair Rich the same could be said about Lincoln, I used to contract and work at sites in Lincoln and it was a bit run down during the mid 90's but over the 20 years of living here its had a lot of investment what seems to be a forward thinking council (then again they could be crap at other things).

I have discussed with councillors about how you upgrade the area.
Take Lincoln for example. They have half a dozen direct London trains a day, we have none. Apparently we might get one sometime.
They have a dual carriageway to the A1, we have to go north to go south by motorway.
We should be pushing to get more trains, better trains and track and a dual carriageway to Lincoln.
If we could get connected to the rest of the country better, more investment would come. But let’s face it isn’t going to happen any time soon.

Local elections looming…people have the choice and the chance to at least try and force difference.

As stated, the fact Jackson and Fenty obtained significant control within our council and Fenty more with the portfolio he held, it’s astounding really.

I do understand why the council took back control of the shopping area because it does mean they can have much more involvement and decision making power.

Lincoln is a weird example, both BG and the Uni kind of developed on their own and left the city behind to some extent. I moved to Lincoln early 2000s and there was often a lot of negativity towards students, animosity at times, the redevelopment project had taken 20 years…control of land is a big issue in Lincoln and as a Local Authority, you get out of Lincoln and you realise services have been left behind in some areas. Local council wise, Lincoln City have made weird decisions although altering the Christmas market isn’t the worst decision, certainly not the decision it’s being made out to be.

Comparing somewhere like Leeds and Grimsby isn’t ever likely to help but I take Rich’s point. Similarly, Ska makes a point simply about wages and roles etc within councils. To push for change you need inspiring and positive folk with experience and drive…I’ve recently taken a role at an LA not too far away, my salary will be circa £50k, in say Merseyside, Salford, Nottinghamshire, even LCC it wipes be £55, May be £60k, albeit covering a larger area…in NELC a very similar role is being advertised at £42k…therein lies an issue.

Great thread this.

For my 2 pence worth I think NE council go after the wrong things.  From what I’ve seen they’re searching for one big thing to jumpstart the area and drive things forward.  Be it the precinct, the daft palm tree or another big cinema.  

Whats seemed to work in Birmingham is making it easy for small local companies to get a start.  It’s changed massively for the better in the 8 years I’ve lived here.  With old former industrial areas with tiny rents like Digbeth, or Stirchley full org local companies that are booming.  The locals all fervently back them and almost ensure their success because they’ve got a connection to the city.

The big external retail investments that NE council seem to want to go for are the areas of Birmingham that have been least successful.  Especially with the investment in big department stores in the city centre. Now they’re failing, the ground space is too big for any other store to take on and rents too high for the local firms so they go to other areas.

If, IF we are to project the areas of north east Lincolnshire as some kind of green energy metropolis, then the council/s would have to buy into it. Unfortunately I don’t see this happening as their reputation precedes them. Millions could be spent on the area but on the same script, millions could (would?) be wasted on the most meaningless enterprises and ideas. The tories, labour, brexit, loss of the fishing industry can all be blamed but, all I ever see is fingers pointing the blame and not a single thing being done about it.

Quoted from Brummie Codfather

Great thread this.

For my 2 pence worth I think NE council go after the wrong things.  From what I’ve seen they’re searching for one big thing to jumpstart the area and drive things forward.  Be it the precinct, the daft palm tree or another big cinema.  

Whats seemed to work in Birmingham is making it easy for small local companies to get a start.  It’s changed massively for the better in the 8 years I’ve lived here.  With old former industrial areas with tiny rents like Digbeth, or Stirchley full org local companies that are booming.  The locals all fervently back them and almost ensure their success because they’ve got a connection to the city.

The big external retail investments that NE council seem to want to go for are the areas of Birmingham that have been least successful.  Especially with the investment in big department stores in the city centre. Now they’re failing, the ground space is too big for any other store to take on and rents too high for the local firms so they go to other areas.

Agree wholeheartedly with this. You just have to look at places like the custard factory and the jewellery quarter on how the areas have redeveloped themselves.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

I get really drunk off with this kind of “ooh look at what they’re doing” thread.  

Looking over the fence and comparing our lot with incomparable situations at other clubs is pointless.

We had 20 years of decline under JSF and actually we’re on a decent road to recovery without 1878 waving their c0cks in the air shouting “look at us aren’t we great”.

You seen how many articles referencing his co-ownership of GTFC and football in general Jason Stockwood has had in the Guardian in the past 2 years? All good stuff generally but a fair bit of modest self promotion too.

Why is it that you consider all the many clubs of similar size to Grimsby who have managed to build a new stadium without bankrupting them or leaving them uncompetative as "incomparable situations".

Why can't we build a new stadium like Rotherham have? Or Chesterfield have? Or Shrewsbury have? Or Burton have? Or Boston have? Or (insert countless other clubs) have?

This Little Grimsby attitude that so many seem to go along with is getting boring now. And I'm saying that from a position of somebody who has never lived in Grimsby (no Dad left 8 years before I was born). It's like a whole swath of Grimsbarians have been brainwashed to think progress, nice things and modernity are for other Towns, but not North East Lincolnshire.

Quoted from BobbyCummingsTackle

There always seems to be a factor that holds the town back and that is the lack of vision from the council, which has been the case for years regardless of the political make up of it.

Redevelopment in other cities and areas has always needed the local council to have a clear vision of what they want to achieve and that vision has always been ambitious and aspirational. Often a separate body has been formed to deliver the vision and not get bogged down in politics.

It feels 'very Grimsby' that the council are putting money into the precinct, flogging a dead horse rather than using the opportunity to think bigger.

I don't know if Grimsby's budget is smaller than equivalent areas or what.

An earlier poster suggested that the long term regeneration of the town may be tied to the future of the football club. That worries me...the football club can be a catalyst for change and can be a focal point for regeneration in a given geographical area but the regeneration of Grimsby can't be tied to a football club. It has come from a vision and an aspiration for the whole area.

A curious comment.  Surely refocussing Freshney Place onto a mix of leisure and retail, rather than just retail, is exactly what is needed?  How else are you going to kick start a viable night time economy in the town?

Quoted from Captain Sensible

How else are you going to kick start a viable night time economy in the town?

Re-appoint Mike Newell?

Quoted from Knut Anders Fosters Voles

Re-appoint Mike Newell?

I thought he did his drinking in the mornings.

Quoted from Mayaman

Used to go to Leeds in the 80's to buy records It was a rough as hell.  Get in, buy the vinyl and get out.  Went in the late 90's for a job interview.  It was a completely different place.   They'd revamped the old Victorian arcades. There was a buzz and people had jobs and any place that has folks with money in their back bin makes it a happier place.  Leeds is much better located than Gy but we have to start with what we are and where we are. We have to take more pride in the place. We can't even have a statue of our founder without it getting destroyed.  Gy has two great museums and Cleethorpes has a lot to offer , especially in the summer. I've lived in much worse places in the UK.  We need to big it up and stop the chavs and idiots destroying it and its reputation. Grimsby town centre needs revamping.  I am not sure how but we somehow need to revitalise it.  

Agree with a lot of your sentiments in that Grimsby needs redeveloping. People I know that have visited the area mostly all say the same "needs some serious regeneration".  On the subject of chavs ( council house and violent) I dont like to use that sentiment though . Often these lads grow up in disadvantaged backgrounds and its easy to get sucked into mischief . A lot of what these lads need are strong firm guidance with a loving hand alongside opportunities that engage their energy's in a constructive manner via youth clubs and the like I feel. I note that people in the Grimsby area have done it for the youth ( seen a tv programme on it for one). More positives like this and there is lesser chance of people engaging in youth crime I think.

The councils latest idea to improve north east lincs - ban metal detectors for no apparent reason...


https://www.theguardian.com/sc.....rists-with-100-fines