Just Back...on the bus/a127 (merged)

Quoted from friskneymariner

Just tell me when we got a number 9 in, we have on several occasions over the years been one or two players short of a league winning team.Our present position demonstrates how successive managers have been unable to put together a league winning team.

Which puts them in the same breath as the 23 other managers who also failed to win the league in their relevant divisions season on season.

You make it sound as though there's a magic formula to creating a league winning team. If players are of sufficient quality to contribute to a league winning team then everyone will be after them. What makes Grimsby a more attractive proposition than Wrexham, Chesterfield or Stockport?

The balance is between aspiring young players from better equipped academies (where any manager is accused of signing untested youth), or more experienced players with the know-how and leadership (where any manager is accused of signing has-beens). The ideal players that sit in the middle of that are the ones that cost money, the ones who want a level of security in terms of family and future and therefore want longer contracts with good wages OR a wider range of options should they leave their club, making Manchester, Birmingham, London far more attractive options just on that reason alone.

This for me is the reason that longevity with a manager has more significance at Grimsby because we are already at a disadvantage with location. I don't believe that quick fixes in football are built to last and the clubs that maintain success are the ones that persevere through adversity(ies) and come out the other side stronger for the experience.

Quoted from buckstown

Interesting listening to the post match. Burns asked PH why he didn't change it earlier and it sounded to me like he didn't believe anyone from the bench would make it better

and he was right - they didn't!

Quoted from gtfc_chris

Which puts them in the same breath as the 23 other managers who also failed to win the league in their relevant divisions season on season.

You make it sound as though there's a magic formula to creating a league winning team. If players are of sufficient quality to contribute to a league winning team then everyone will be after them. What makes Grimsby a more attractive proposition than Wrexham, Chesterfield or Stockport?

The balance is between aspiring young players from better equipped academies (where any manager is accused of signing untested youth), or more experienced players with the know-how and leadership (where any manager is accused of signing has-beens). The ideal players that sit in the middle of that are the ones that cost money, the ones who want a level of security in terms of family and future and therefore want longer contracts with good wages OR a wider range of options should they leave their club, making Manchester, Birmingham, London far more attractive options just on that reason alone.

This for me is the reason that longevity with a manager has more significance at Grimsby because we are already at a disadvantage with location. I don't believe that quick fixes in football are built to last and the clubs that maintain success are the ones that persevere through adversity(ies) and come out the other side stronger for the experience.

We have in your words being persevering for a very long time.If you apply your logic of being disadvantage because of our geographical position,then we are doomed forever to wallow in the lower leagues cos baring any drastic movements of the tectonic plates we are staying where we are.It appears you are willing to justify mediocrity.

As soon as the team sheet was announced I heard Giles Coke named, I knew what the result was going to be, nothing personal against the lad,I'm sure he's a nice decent guy, but it's like playing with 10 men when he's in there. We had a run of 12 defeats was it? With him in the side......then won 5/6 and drew one without him in the side........then low and behold he's put in there.................we lose....is it a massive coincidence?

Oddly enough Phil, we were worse in central midfield when the man who in your opinion doesn’t count as a player was subbed off.

Quoted from Phil the cod

As soon as the team sheet was announced I heard Giles Coke named, I knew what the result was going to be, nothing personal against the lad,I'm sure he's a nice decent guy, but it's like playing with 10 men when he's in there. We had a run of 12 defeats was it? With him in the side......then won 5/6 and drew one without him in the side........then low and behold he's put in there.................we lose....is it a massive coincidence?

He also played a hell of a lot at the start of the season when we were flying

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Oddly enough Phil, we were worse in central midfield when the man who in your opinion doesn’t count as a player was subbed off.

Yeah, I agreed with everything you said earlier and I agree with this. Coke did well last night I thought. When he's rested and fully fit he puts a shift in. Some of the criticism of him this season is fair but I don't think he needs to be slated anywhere near as much as he has been.

I must confess that this defeat passed me by. Brutal truth is I thoroughly expected us to lose this game narrowly and struggled to make any chances. I still think we have a reasonable chance of the playoffs but will inevitably lose to a better team, which is just about everybody above us. In the close season Hurst needs to analyse how to get more creative as we are generally quite solid but this team really lacks a spark and if. MacAtee has an off day we are screwed. There is an absolute chasm between this team and the last thing that we got promoted with and none of the forwards would’ve got near the first team. For me, the disappointing thing this season was that when we were playing well we never had any forwards on the bench this lack of options has meant that we have been unable to convert losses to draws. I am not sure what the solution is because the creative goalscoring players cost a lot of money and if you look at the top teams, Stockport Wrexham and Chesterfield  the common link is that they are well-stocked with good forwards, in comparison we are paupers. Certainly not moaning at Hurst but it puts into perspective what a tough gig it will be to escape this league and it is almost like we need to get lucky and find a youth forward or pull somebody from lower leagues who steps up utm

Quoted from friskneymariner

We have in your words being persevering for a very long time.If you apply your logic of being disadvantage because of our geographical position,then we are doomed forever to wallow in the lower leagues cos baring any drastic movements of the tectonic plates we are staying where we are.It appears you are willing to justify mediocrity.

It's not justifying mediocrity, it's understanding the barriers that exist and being realistic in my expectation. I said in a thread a week or two ago that having grown up in the Championship era and my away days being to Norwich, Man City, West Brom etc, I believe the club should have an aspiration to once again return there.

But that has to be placed in context. In my youth, I would have argued that Luton have done it in 5 years and therefore so can we, which isn't untrue. But then the argument I'm now defending has relevance - Luton sit just outside of London. They appear an attractive Club for those released from bigger clubs in the London area. They can attract talent from up north with London on the doorstep and options available if all goes wrong. For us to do the same we would need to overcome the geographical obstacle somehow, and the only way I can think of is with money......which we don't have an abundance of.

The reality is that 24 teams compete in a league that only 1 can win. In the grand scheme of things the gap between top and bottom isn't huge and unless you have cash (Salford, Wrexham, Chesterfield, Stockport of recent years at this level), then you need to have a manager that can deliver. To deliver he needs players of good quality in all areas. He has to overcome financial hurdles, location hurdles, competing club hurdles, family situation hurdles to even stand a chance of that. We as a club also have to be attractive which in the modern game comes to include training facilities, professional approach, philosophy etc.

To the quality players who have options available to them, what makes Grimsby the best one?

It isn't justifying or accepting mediocrity, it's recognising and understanding that for us to CONTINUALLY progress, we can't simply throw money we don't have at players that still have no guarantee of replicating successes they may have had at other clubs. There's too many moving parts to have a magic formula, and if one existed every Club would be applying it.